Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing & Brand Strategy Podcast

Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing & Brand Strategy Podcast

By Louis Grenier | Marketing & BrandingBusinessEntrepreneurshipMarketing
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Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing & Brand Strategy Podcast episodes

  • TOFU, MOFU & BOFU in Content Marketing: Which Do You Need?

    I've just launched a new YouTube channel!! The concept? I take real businesses struggling to stand the f*ck out, provide my positioning/branding/lead gen help, and record it all for YouTube. The first mini-series features three freelance marketers (copywriter Rob, ecommerce designer Laura, and non-fiction book coach Vicky).

    I hope you'll set aside half an hour to watch it through. Maybe with your morning coffee? Or lunch break? Or evening onion soup? And then, the usual "Subscribe, Like, Share" would go a long, long way too.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q

    ***

    What do TOFU, MOFU & BOFU stand for in marketing? It helps digital marketers to serve the right content to the right person at the right time using the sales funnel.

    Today, I am interviewing Greg Elfrink, Content Marketing Manager for Empire Flippers a marketplace to buy or sell websites.

    Today, we discuss creating customer avatars. Avatars enable us to better understand and serve our customers.

    Greg has an interesting background. He used to work on oil rigs in Alaska while freelancing on the side. Sometimes he would end up working 100 hours in one week. With the long hours, he was getting burned out.

    Greg is much happier now that he is part of the Empire Flippers team. We also discuss content length and the value of reading fiction to improve marketing.

    Topics covered: 

    • How living in East Asia and working for Empire Flippers is better for Greg than working on oil rigs in Alaska.
    • A little history of inbound marketing and Michelin the tire company and restaurant guide.
    • Low-quality content and fake news are the scourge of the Internet.
    • Top of the funnel content for getting leads and building awareness. Outreach and guests posts combined with a middle of the funnel lead magnet.
    • It’s a marketer's job to solve the customers' pain points and get them to the solution through the funnel process.
    • Know who you are speaking to so that you can tailor specific content to the customer.
    • The bottom of the funnel content like case studies, testimonials, and research can be effective.
    • Finding an angle that excites your audience.


    Resources mentioned:

    • Empire Flippers
    • Wait But Why
    • Brian Dean
    • The Brain Audit by Sean D’Souza
    • The Believing Brain by Michael Shermer
    • Web Copy That Sells by Maria Veloso
    • Freakonomics Podcast
    • [email protected]
    • Buyer Personas Need to Die a Violent Death


    ***

    → Buy my book: book.stfo.io
    → Watch my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q
    → Take my 60-second quiz: stfo.io/q
    → See my pretty face on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/
    → Leave a review on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3p4wL4r
    → Leave a review on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo


    🐔


    51 min
  • Rand Fishkin's Step-by-Step Guide to Inbound Marketing

    I've just launched a new YouTube channel!! The concept? I take real businesses struggling to stand the f*ck out, provide my positioning/branding/lead gen help, and record it all for YouTube. The first mini-series features three freelance marketers (copywriter Rob, ecommerce designer Laura, and non-fiction book coach Vicky).

    I hope you'll set aside half an hour to watch it through. Maybe with your morning coffee? Or lunch break? Or evening onion soup? And then, the usual "Subscribe, Like, Share" would go a long, long way too.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q

    ***

    How to sell more? By earning the awareness, trust, and respect of people who could buy from you. This is, in essence, the core of Rand Fiskin's inbound marketing philosophy. In this episode, Rand Fishkin shares his step-by-step guide to selling online using inbound marketing.

    Rand Fishkin is the Co-Founder and Ex-CEO of Moz.

    Rand Fishkin is one of the best and most transparent marketers. During this hour we talk about the type of marketer that Donald Trump is and what Rand would do if he only had $100 and 6 months to generate $1000 in income.

    Rand also tells a personal MOZ story that applies to managing people. Along with reasons why bad marketing stands out, and how to win your customer’s trust.

     Topics covered:

    • How Rand would spend that $100 on ad platforms to learn how to improve the ROI.
    • Rand was a shy introverted kid, but he cared about people and what made them tick.
    • Correlation and causation are important distinctions for marketers and understanding data.
    • How a bad hire caused issues with Moz’s gender equality policy.
    • How the bad marketing is what sticks and gives marketers a bad reputation.
    • False best practices in marketing.
    • How to identify and get in front of your audience.
    • Having empathy and building trust with our customers and retention marketing.


    Resources mentioned:

    • How to land your first digital marketing job (with no experience)
    • Moz
    • Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain
    • Basecamp
    • Haiku Deck
    • Buffer
    • Full Contact
    • Radian6
    • Crimson Hexagon
    • Sprinklr
    • Sprout Social
    • Followerwonk
    • Hootsuite
    • Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert B. Cialdini
    • Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness by Richard H. Thaler
    • Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely
    • MozCon
    • Search Engine Land and Marketing Land Events
    • Social Media World
    • Hootsuite Blog


    ***

    → Buy my book: book.stfo.io
    → Watch my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q
    → Take my 60-second quiz: stfo.io/q
    → See my pretty face on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/
    → Leave a review on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3p4wL4r
    → Leave a review on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo


    🐔


    1 hr 2 min
  • Why Trust-Based Marketing Is Eating Branding for Breakfast

    I've just launched a new YouTube channel!! The concept? I take real businesses struggling to stand the f*ck out, provide my positioning/branding/lead gen help, and record it all for YouTube. The first mini-series features three freelance marketers (copywriter Rob, ecommerce designer Laura, and non-fiction book coach Vicky).

    I hope you'll set aside half an hour to watch it through. Maybe with your morning coffee? Or lunch break? Or evening onion soup? And then, the usual "Subscribe, Like, Share" would go a long, long way too.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q

    ***

    Trust-based marketing eats branding for breakfast, any day of the week according to Jonathan Salem Baskin, Founder of Arcadia Lab, which helps businesses to communicate about innovation.

    Jonathan has 30 years of marketing experience in major global brands and is a currently a Forbes contributor. Jonathan firmly believes that brands are dead - and he offers a better alternative.

    Listen in as he challenges the conventional truths in marketing and provides a new perspective for the future of business.

    Topics covered:

    • What drew Jonathan into a career in marketing and founding his current company
    • The nature of true innovation
    • Defining the terms: advertising, marketing and branding
    • Why brands are dead
    • Actionable ways to be a more genuine marketer
    • Evaluating your trustworthiness as a business

    Resources mentioned:

    • Arcadia Lab
    • Tell The Truth by Sue Unerman and Jonathan Salem Baskin
    • JonathanSalemBaskin.com
    • InnovationCommunicator.com
    • Branding 101: 5 Steps to Build a Small Business Brand


    ***

    → Buy my book: book.stfo.io
    → Watch my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q
    → Take my 60-second quiz: stfo.io/q
    → See my pretty face on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/
    → Leave a review on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3p4wL4r
    → Leave a review on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo


    🐔


    1 hr 6 min
  • How Hubstaff SaaS Business Grew from 0 to 4,500 Customers

    I've just launched a new YouTube channel!! The concept? I take real businesses struggling to stand the f*ck out, provide my positioning/branding/lead gen help, and record it all for YouTube. The first mini-series features three freelance marketers (copywriter Rob, ecommerce designer Laura, and non-fiction book coach Vicky).

    I hope you'll set aside half an hour to watch it through. Maybe with your morning coffee? Or lunch break? Or evening onion soup? And then, the usual "Subscribe, Like, Share" would go a long, long way too.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q

    ***

    How did Hubstaff, a remote team management software business, managed to grow from 0 to over 4,500 customers?

    Dave Nevogt, Founder and CEO of Hubstaff, shares how he got Hubstaff started, including missteps along the way, and transparency in how the business is running today.

    Join us for a great conversation about acquiring and understanding your customers in order to grow sales and succeed in your business.

    Topics covered:

    • Launching Hubstaff and getting the first customers
    • Dave’s transparency in business and customer trust
    • Why bad products and bad marketing die on their own
    • How to get a good understanding of your customers
    • Avoiding expensive marketing mistakes
    • Strategy advice and resources for digital marketers


    Resources mentioned:

    • Hubstaff
    • How Hubstaff Got its First 25 Customers by Dave Nevogt – Hubstaff blog
    • How freemium nearly caused our business to implode by Josh Pigford – Baremetrics blog
    • What I’d Change, Keep the Same, & Don’t Yet Know by Rand Fishkin – Moz Blog
    • Traction by Gino Wickman
    • Growth Hacking by Raymond Fong and Chad Riddersen
    • The 80/20 Principle by Richard Koch
    • WP Curve Blog
    • Nathan Barry Blog
    • [email protected]
    • Dave’s Blog at Hubstaff
    • Michael Phelps and the Longest Putt in TV History
    • Pratfall Effect in Marketing: Admit Your Flaws to Win Customers


    ***

    → Buy my book: book.stfo.io
    → Watch my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q
    → Take my 60-second quiz: stfo.io/q
    → See my pretty face on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/
    → Leave a review on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3p4wL4r
    → Leave a review on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo


    🐔


    1 hr
  • Why Email Newsletters Should Die (and What to Do Instead)

    I've just launched a new YouTube channel!! The concept? I take real businesses struggling to stand the f*ck out, provide my positioning/branding/lead gen help, and record it all for YouTube. The first mini-series features three freelance marketers (copywriter Rob, ecommerce designer Laura, and non-fiction book coach Vicky).

    I hope you'll set aside half an hour to watch it through. Maybe with your morning coffee? Or lunch break? Or evening onion soup? And then, the usual "Subscribe, Like, Share" would go a long, long way too.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q

    ***

    On today’s podcast episode, I’m talking to Tom Hunt, entrepreneur and founder of Sneez, a social selling software tool [note: Tom is now running SaaSMarketer.io].

    He believes that email newsletters should die and offers an alternative…In this episode, Tom shares his experiences leaving his well-paid corporate job, entering the digital marketing world, and building his businesses.

    Listen in for his great advice to new marketers on improving your craft and making more sales.

    Topics covered:

    • Tom’s journey into entrepreneurship and digital marketing
    • Transparency as a marketing strategy
    • Why newsletters should die
    • Thoughts on pop-ups and user experience
    • Marketing tactics with limited resources
    • Recommended resources and advice for new marketers


    Resources mentioned:

    • Sneez
    • Virtual Valley
    • Hubstaff Blog
    • WP Curve Blog
    • Basecamp
    • Feedly
    • Groove Blog
    • Tomhunt.io


    ***

    → Buy my book: book.stfo.io
    → Watch my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q
    → Take my 60-second quiz: stfo.io/q
    → See my pretty face on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/
    → Leave a review on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3p4wL4r
    → Leave a review on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo


    🐔


    54 min
  • How to Create “Knock-Your-Socks-Off” Customer Experiences

    I've just launched a new YouTube channel!! The concept? I take real businesses struggling to stand the f*ck out, provide my positioning/branding/lead gen help, and record it all for YouTube. The first mini-series features three freelance marketers (copywriter Rob, ecommerce designer Laura, and non-fiction book coach Vicky).

    I hope you'll set aside half an hour to watch it through. Maybe with your morning coffee? Or lunch break? Or evening onion soup? And then, the usual "Subscribe, Like, Share" would go a long, long way too.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q

    ***

    My guest today is Blake Morgan, a Customer Experience Consultant and author of More is More. ‍

    Blake teaches brands to create “Knock Your Socks Off” customer experiences.

    ‍Join us as we learn the best ways to improve your customer’s experience with your brand and how you can provide more value in your marketing.

    Topics covered:

    • Blake’s career path from journalist to customer experience consultant
    • The problem with “Gotcha marketing”, “Insertion marketing” and bad profits
    • Connecting to consumers with relevant content opportunities
    • Generational differences in the consumer market
    • How-To tips on improving customer experience on your own and within an organization
    • Internet of Things (IOT) and the future of marketing


    Resources mentioned:

    • BlakeMichelleMorgan.com
    • Blake’s book More is More
    • Blake’s YouTube Show
    • The Modern Customer Podcast
    • Youtility by Jay Baer
    • Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl
    • Why Not Now? Podcast with Simon Sinek
    • Simon Sinek’s Ted Talk – Start with Why
    • Daft Punk: 5 Marketing Lessons to Make Your Business Famous


    ***

    → Buy my book: book.stfo.io
    → Watch my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q
    → Take my 60-second quiz: stfo.io/q
    → See my pretty face on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/
    → Leave a review on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3p4wL4r
    → Leave a review on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo


    🐔


    55 min
  • 4 Proven Ways to Become a Better, More Authentic Copywriter

    I've just launched a new YouTube channel!! The concept? I take real businesses struggling to stand the f*ck out, provide my positioning/branding/lead gen help, and record it all for YouTube. The first mini-series features three freelance marketers (copywriter Rob, ecommerce designer Laura, and non-fiction book coach Vicky).

    I hope you'll set aside half an hour to watch it through. Maybe with your morning coffee? Or lunch break? Or evening onion soup? And then, the usual "Subscribe, Like, Share" would go a long, long way too.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q

    ***

    Want to become a better, more authentic copywriter?

    On today’s episode, I’m talking to Dave Schneider, Founder of Ninja Outreach, a software tool to get in touch with influencers and bloggers [Note: Dave no longer runs these websites, but can be found at lesschurn.io and daveschneider.me]

    He’s studied applied mathematics at Harvard, traveled the world and now manages a team remotely to run his company.

    Listen in for Dave’s top recommended resources to learn how to become a better copywriter and improve your marketing.

    Topics covered:

    • Running a blog and earning money while traveling
    • Network marketing and pyramid schemes in digital marketing
    • Transparency in business, externally to an audience and internally in the company
    • The importance of good copywriting in authentic marketing (and how to become a great copywriter)
    • Dave’s top recommended marketing and copywriting blogs & tools


    Resources mentioned:

    • The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferris
    • Nomadic Matt Blog
    • Smart Passive Income Blog
    • Niche Pursuits Blog
    • Matthew Woodward Blog
    • ConversionXL Blog
    • OkDork Blog by Noah Kagan
    • Backlinko Blog by Brian Dean
    • Grammarly
    • CoSchedule’s Headline Analyzer
    • Hemingway Editor App
    • Inbound
    • GrowthHackers
    • Product Hunt
    • Upwork
    • Hubstaff
    • Pratfall Effect in Marketing: Admit Your Flaws to Win Customers


    ***

    → Buy my book: book.stfo.io
    → Watch my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q
    → Take my 60-second quiz: stfo.io/q
    → See my pretty face on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/
    → Leave a review on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3p4wL4r
    → Leave a review on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo


    🐔


    56 min
  • 3 Content Marketing Techniques to Get More Visitors & Leads

    I've just launched a new YouTube channel!! The concept? I take real businesses struggling to stand the f*ck out, provide my positioning/branding/lead gen help, and record it all for YouTube. The first mini-series features three freelance marketers (copywriter Rob, ecommerce designer Laura, and non-fiction book coach Vicky).

    I hope you'll set aside half an hour to watch it through. Maybe with your morning coffee? Or lunch break? Or evening onion soup? And then, the usual "Subscribe, Like, Share" would go a long, long way too.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q

    ***

    Do you want more online visitors and more leads? Justin McGill describes in this episode 3 content marketing techniques to help you achieve this result.

    Justin McGill is the Founder of LeadFuze, an online service to help businesses to generate more leads online. He’s also the host of the podcast Zero to Scale, where he and his co-host discuss their journey building profitable businesses.

    Listen in as Justin shares his experiences as an entrepreneur and specific marketing techniques he’s used to grow his business.

    Topics covered:

    • Justin’s journey from corporate manager to professional poker player
    • Launching consulting and software businesses
    • Being transparent and facing competitors
    • Using the skyscraper technique to create valuable content
    • How to write good email subject lines and cold-contact people successfully

    Resources mentioned:

    • SaaS Content Marketing: Why Education is a Powerful Approach
    • 5 Content Marketing Promotion Tactics You Should Try Today
    • LeadFuze
    • Zero to Scale
    • [email protected]
    • SEMrush
    • Google Search Console
    • Moz Blog
    • HubSpot Blog
    • Kissmetrics Blog
    • Backlinko Blog
    • Matthew Barby Blog
    • Quick Sprout Blog
    • Pratfall Effect in Marketing: Admit Your Flaws to Win Customers


    ***

    → Buy my book: book.stfo.io
    → Watch my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q
    → Take my 60-second quiz: stfo.io/q
    → See my pretty face on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/
    → Leave a review on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3p4wL4r
    → Leave a review on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo


    🐔


    56 min
  • Digital Marketers: Here's How Stand Out From the Crowd

    I've just launched a new YouTube channel!! The concept? I take real businesses struggling to stand the f*ck out, provide my positioning/branding/lead gen help, and record it all for YouTube. The first mini-series features three freelance marketers (copywriter Rob, ecommerce designer Laura, and non-fiction book coach Vicky).

    I hope you'll set aside half an hour to watch it through. Maybe with your morning coffee? Or lunch break? Or evening onion soup? And then, the usual "Subscribe, Like, Share" would go a long, long way too.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q

    ***

     Today I’m talking to Violeta Nedkova, from VioletaNedkova.com and The Creative Rebel Academy.

    She's a creative rebel: she does things in her own way, instead of following what everybody else says. She can help you to stand out from the crowd as a digital marketer.

    Topics covered:

    • Violeta’s interesting life story and approach to positivity
    • Tips to deal with bullshit overload on the internet
    • Tools and methods for using Twitter efficiently
    • Website ‘pollution’ and user experience
    • How to really stand out as a marketer and a business


    Resources mentioned:

    • VioletaNedkova.com
    • The Creative Rebel Academy
    • Violeta on Twitter - @VioletaNedkova
    • Twitter tools: TweetDeck, Buffer
    • The Imperfect Boss
    • Purple Cow by Seth Godin
    • Start With Why - Simon Sinek TED talk
    • Gary Vaynerchuk Website
    • Pratfall Effect in Marketing: Admit Your Flaws to Win Customers

    I've just launched a new YouTube channel!! The concept? I take real businesses struggling to stand the f*ck out, provide my positioning/branding/lead gen help, and record it all for YouTube. The first mini-series features three freelance marketers (copywriter Rob, ecommerce designer Laura, and non-fiction book coach Vicky).

    I hope you'll set aside half an hour to watch it through. Maybe with your morning coffee? Or lunch break? Or evening onion soup? And then, the usual "Subscribe, Like, Share" would go a long, long way too.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q

    ***


    ***

    → Buy my book: book.stfo.io
    → Watch my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q
    → Take my 60-second quiz: stfo.io/q
    → See my pretty face on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/
    → Leave a review on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3p4wL4r
    → Leave a review on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo


    🐔

    54 min
  • The Good Marketing Guide to Market Your Business Online

    I've just launched a new YouTube channel!! The concept? I take real businesses struggling to stand the f*ck out, provide my positioning/branding/lead gen help, and record it all for YouTube. The first mini-series features three freelance marketers (copywriter Rob, ecommerce designer Laura, and non-fiction book coach Vicky).

    I hope you'll set aside half an hour to watch it through. Maybe with your morning coffee? Or lunch break? Or evening onion soup? And then, the usual "Subscribe, Like, Share" would go a long, long way too.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q

    ***

    My guest today is John Doherty from GetCredo.com, a marketplace to find the best SEO experts.

    John is very transparent in his business and in today’s episode he candidly shares his background in marketing and journey launching Credo.

    Do you want to know how to market your business online? Then listen in as we discuss what makes a good marketing strategy and specific tactics for using SEO in your business.

    Topics covered:

    • John’s background and launching Credo
    • Transparency in business and writing
    • Why good marketing takes time
    • Quality vs. Quantity in content marketing
    • Knowing when to outsource tasks
    • Marketing and SEO strategy advice
    • Tactics for customer and influencer research

    Resources mentioned:

    • GetCredo.com
    • John Doherty - Website and Blog
    • Thinking Through Entrepreneur Growth by John Doherty
    • Builtvisible
    • The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss
    • Traction by Gabriel Weinberg and Justin Mares
    • SEO tools: SEMrush, Open Site Explorer, Ahrefs, Screaming Frog
    • Influencer research tools: Followerwonk, Intellifluence
    • Moz Beginner’s Guide to SEO
    • DistilledU SEO 101


    ***

    → Buy my book: book.stfo.io
    → Watch my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNXaHHVnVntg5gpveB-5_Q
    → Take my 60-second quiz: stfo.io/q
    → See my pretty face on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/
    → Leave a review on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3p4wL4r
    → Leave a review on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo


    🐔


    56 min

About Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing & Brand Strategy Podcast

From the publisher's feed

The only marketing podcast for people sick of marketing bullsh*t—with zero fluff and 1M+ downloads—voted "#1 marketing podcast worth your time" by Ahrefs. Running strong for seven years and 250+ episodes covering evergreen topics:

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