Perpetual Traffic

Do you need help with marketing and scaling your coaching or book-a-call business? Talk to us at: https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now

Your calendar is full, so why is nobody showing up, and why are the wrong people booking? Most media buyers blame targeting. We see it differently. You can't fix who shows up by changing who sees the ad. You fix it by changing what they see.

In this episode, I walk through a premium executive coaching client who came to Tier 11 with exactly that problem. Every ad said the same thing, so Meta found one type of buyer and stalled.

We built nine fundamentally different message lanes with our messaging engine and aligned the setter team to every promise. Show rates jumped from 50% to 81%, and cost per lead fell 48%. I also explain why we cut $20K of LinkedIn spend and how they kept revenue nearly flat on $137,000 less ad spend.

In this episode:

- How to fix show rates and lead quality with creative diversification

- Why Meta treats 30 variations of one claim as one ad

- Building nine message lanes with the messaging engine

- Why generic ad copy never gets the booked call

- Which market subsets to target, and which to ignore

- Matching your setters’ script to the promise in the ad

- How to cut cost per lead without raising budget

- The Meta and Google brand-search combo for a 10X return

Mentioned in the Episode:

• Episode 809: https://perpetualtraffic.com/podcast/episode-809-your-marketing-team-shouldnt-write-your-ads-heres-who-should/
• Episode 811: https://perpetualtraffic.com/podcast/episode-811-if-your-sales-funnel-has-a-book-a-call-button-this-episode-is-for-you/
• Episode 812: https://perpetualtraffic.com/podcast/episode-812-before-you-add-another-marketing-channel-ask-this-one-question/
• Breakthrough Advertising Book by Eugene Schwartz: https://breakthroughadvertisingbook.com/breakthrough-advertising/

Listen to This Episode on Your Favorite Podcast Channel:

Follow and listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/perpetual-traffic/id1022441491

Follow and listen on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/show/59lhtIWHw1XXsRmT5HBAuK

Subscribe and watch on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@perpetual_traffic?sub_confirmation=1

We Appreciate Your Support!

Visit our website: https://perpetualtraffic.com/

Connect with Ralph Burns:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/

Hire Tier11 - https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now

Still guessing which ads are working? Let Tier 11 build the creative strategy and measurement system behind your Meta ads: https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now 

Anyone can generate an AI ad in 30 seconds. So why does so much of it flop? Because AI can't tell you the dominant emotion your customer is carrying the first time they meet your brand. That emotion is the checkpoint every creative piece has to pass through.

I sat down with Miranda Ivey, creative strategist at Tier 11, to walk through the messaging extraction process we run with every client. We cover why we have clients read "radio ads" out loud, how to bridge the gap between brand guidelines and the way customers actually talk, and how to stay creatively diverse enough for Andromeda. 

Miranda also shares the report we use to find winning ads. You'll leave with a repeatable way to turn emotion into ad concepts, plus a measurement system that goes beyond last-click conversions. 

 In this episode, you’ll learn:

- The messaging extraction call that uncovers the emotional drivers 

- Why AI-generated ads fail without a clear customer emotion behind them

- How "radio ads" help clients visualize pain points before production starts

- What to do when brand guidelines clash with customers' resonance

- How to build creative diversity for Meta's Andromeda algorithm

- How to measure ad performance using the top 25% of spend by format

- Tracking the right creative metrics

- Measuring creative success rates beyond conversions

Listen to This Episode on Your Favorite Podcast Channel:

Follow and listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/perpetual-traffic/id1022441491 

Follow and listen on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/show/59lhtIWHw1XXsRmT5HBAuK 

Subscribe and watch on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@perpetual_traffic?sub_confirmation=1

We Appreciate Your Support!

Visit our website: https://perpetualtraffic.com/ 

Connect with Miranda Ivey:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mirandaivey 

Connect with Ralph Burns: 

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns 

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/ 

Hire Tier11 - https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now 

Is the ad you're about to pause the one feeding every sale in your account? And is that shiny new channel really the fix for a rough month, or just an expensive distraction? Most marketers get both calls wrong, especially when the product costs thousands.

Growth strategist Ricardo Pouwels joins me again to discuss this further. We open Meta Ads Manager to show how he reads frequency, hook rate, hold rate, and cost per engagement on a campaign that spent $145,000 in 30 days. The coldest video has a lower ROAS than the other ads, but pausing it would cut off the traffic that feeds the converting ads.

I also talk about a flashlight campaign that "won" every engagement metric and sold nothing. Ricardo explains how an ad-level spend minimum stops Meta from dumping 90% of budget into one video. Plus, we cover the bad and good reasons for expansion, and why testing new avatars and messaging comes before adding any new channel.

In this episode:

- Hook rate, hold rate, and outbound CTR benchmarks by ad type

- Where last-click attribution breaks down on high-ticket offers

- What cost per engagement tells you about creative, and where it misleads

- Why creative diversification beats raw ad volume in the Andromeda era

- When to test new channels and how to pick the next right platform

- Testing new avatars and messaging before adding platforms

- Diversifying away from Google or Meta without hurting performance

Mentioned in the Episode:

Partner with Tier 11’s marketing experts: http://tiereleven.com/apply

Tier 11’s Data Suite: https://www.tiereleven.com/what-we-do/data-suite

Previous Episodes with Ricardo Pouwels:

https://perpetualtraffic.com/podcast/episode-808-why-your-winning-ad-is-probably-the-one-youre-about-to-kill/

Listen to This Episode on Your Favorite Podcast Channel:

Follow and listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/perpetual-traffic/id1022441491

Follow and listen on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/show/59lhtIWHw1XXsRmT5HBAuK

Subscribe and watch on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@perpetual_traffic?sub_confirmation=1

We Appreciate Your Support!

Visit our website: https://perpetualtraffic.com/

Connect with Ricardo Pouwels:

Website: https://nl.linkedin.com/in/ricardo-pouwels

Connect with Ralph Burns:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/

Hire Tier11 - https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now

Everyone tells you to put a booking calendar at the end of your funnel. What if that's exactly where you're losing half your leads? For businesses that rely on a sales team to close high-ticket offers, generating the lead is not the end of the process. The handoff is where businesses lose or win the opportunity.

Thomas Mcnaught is back to break down a client case study that flips conventional wisdom. Most of their spend goes to Meta lead forms, the format everyone calls low quality. Yet show rates jumped roughly 20% once setters started calling every lead. Plus, they're turning six-figure ad spend into seven-figure monthly revenue at roughly a 7X MER.

We discuss the impact of speed to lead on conversion rates, why we let Meta run through the weekend, and the capacity problem that comes with scaling this well. If you fix the human part of your funnel, running winning ads gets easier. 

In This Episode:

- How Meta lead forms work for high-ticket lead generation 

- Choosing between setter phone calls and calendar bookings

- The difference between MQLs and SQLs in a sales-assisted business

- Why the call booking calendar at the end of your funnel can kill show rate

- How speed to lead affects conversion rates

- The best times to schedule Meta and Google ads

- How to manage sales team capacity and double-booked calls

Mentioned in the Episode:

Partner with Tier 11’s marketing experts: http://tiereleven.com/apply 

Creative Diversification Playbook: https://perpetualtraffic.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/Creative-Diversification-Playbook-Practitioner-Guidance.pdf 

Tier 11’s Data Suite: https://www.tiereleven.com/what-we-do/data-suite 

Previous Episodes with Thomas Mcnaught:

https://perpetualtraffic.com/podcast/episode-804-bad-data-and-10-minute-video-ads-were-killing-this-account-heres-the-fix/ 

https://perpetualtraffic.com/podcast/episode-807-why-your-best-performing-ad-might-be-the-one-getting-zero-conversions/ 

Listen to This Episode on Your Favorite Podcast Channel:

Follow and listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/perpetual-traffic/id1022441491 

Follow and listen on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/show/59lhtIWHw1XXsRmT5HBAuK 

Subscribe and watch on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@perpetual_traffic?sub_confirmation=1

We Appreciate Your Support!

Visit our website: https://perpetualtraffic.com/ 

Connect with Thomas Mcnaught:

Website: https://www.thomasmcnaught.com/  

Connect with Ralph Burns: 

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns 

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/ 

Hire Tier11 - https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now 

What's the real cost of running brand and performance marketing as separate teams? It is more than most marketing leaders want to admit. When every dollar is judged on last-click conversions, you're capturing existing demand while the pipeline of future customers dries up.

I sat down with Jon Chang from MyFitnessPal, the category-leading nutrition app now inside ChatGPT Health, to break down how he runs brand and performance marketing as one system. Jon shares how his team runs roughly 700 creatives at once and tests new messaging for just $100–$300 a week.

He also explains how moving off a single-message influencer strategy took CAC from break-even to about 30% below it. You'll walk away with a framework for persona-based creative, a test budget that protects your LTV/CAC math, and a smarter way to measure brand performance with incrementality.

In this episode:

- Why last-click attribution and performance-only marketing run out of demand

- How Meta's Andromeda update rewards creative diversification

- Running multiple creatives to build brand differentiation and lower CAC

- How to measure each funnel stage with brand lift and last-touch

- What GeoX incrementality studies reveal about true channel credit

- MyFitnessPal’s influencer strategy and media mix

- How Klarna builds micro-communities and campus activations

Mentioned in the Episode:

Partner with Tier 11’s marketing experts: http://tiereleven.com/apply

Listen to This Episode on Your Favorite Podcast Channel:

Follow and listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/perpetual-traffic/id1022441491

Follow and listen on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/show/59lhtIWHw1XXsRmT5HBAuK

Subscribe and watch on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@perpetual_traffic?sub_confirmation=1

We Appreciate Your Support!

Visit our website: https://perpetualtraffic.com/

Connect with Jon Chang:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonchangny

Connect with Ralph Burns:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/

Hire Tier11 - https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now

Is your creative saying the same thing over and over? We can help you build a messaging strategy that scales your paid media. Talk to us at: https://www.tiereleven.com/apply

Your creative team is producing more ads than ever. So why does every one of them say the same thing? Most brands skip the one step that decides what their creative actually says, and then pay for that mistake with every new dollar they spend.

On today's show, I'm breaking down a real conversation with the VP of marketing at a $40 million disability benefits advocacy brand. They've had two agencies in two years, no messaging strategy, and 80% of their leads are from affiliates, mostly from just one.

I’ll show you the five-step messaging engine we used to fix it, from extracting real customer language to building nine content pillars and reading every script aloud before production. If your ad account looks like 30 ads with one message, this episode shows how to restructure your messaging framework effectively.

In this episode:

- Why most brands skip the messaging step and go straight to ad production

- The danger of relying on affiliates for most of your lead generation

- Why paid traffic beats SEO and AEO for fast, predictable growth

- How Meta Andromeda rewards distinct messages over ad variations

- How to run a messaging extraction call with sales and customer service teams

- How to build content pillars with emotional, functional, and authority layers

- Why reading ad scripts aloud catches weak ideas before they cost you money

- The 30-day timeline for launching a full creative diversification strategy

Mentioned in the Episode:

Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Schwartz: https://breakthroughadvertisingbook.com/breakthrough-advertising/

Listen to This Episode on Your Favorite Podcast Channel:

Follow and listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/perpetual-traffic/id1022441491

Follow and listen on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/show/59lhtIWHw1XXsRmT5HBAuK

Subscribe and watch on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@perpetual_traffic?sub_confirmation=1

We Appreciate Your Support!

Visit our website: https://perpetualtraffic.com/

Connect with Ralph Burns:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/

Hire Tier11 - https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now

Running ads across multiple channels and not sure which ones are actually driving growth? Our teams can audit your attribution and show you where your budget should really go. Talk to us at: https://www.tiereleven.com/apply 

A video is soaking up your ad spend and showing almost no conversions, so the obvious move is to kill it. But what if that video is the reason your cheap last-click image ads look so good in the first place?

Ricardo Pouwels, one of our growth strategists at Tier 11, joins me again to break down how attribution and creative measurement change as a business grows from one channel to ten. He explains how he finds a client's true scaling channel using historical spend data, why he'd rather run a real budget test than trust an incrementality study, and why so many brands are hitting a ceiling on Google Search.

Ricardo also shares the scaling campaign structure he's using right now: ad-level spend minimums that keep top-of-funnel videos funded so your account stays a funnel, not a pile of discount images. If you're spending across multiple channels, this one is for you!

In This Episode:

- Why last-click attribution breaks in multi-channel marketing

- How to measure no-click channels like CTV, YouTube, and radio

- Using historical ad spend data to find your true scaling channel

- How Google branded search and Amazon ads often steal last-click credit

- The limits of incrementality testing and why budget tests tell you more

- How to state a hypothesis and timeline before shifting ad spend

- Why Google Search ads hit a scaling ceiling while Meta ads keep growing

- Measuring top-of-funnel videos with hook rate, hold rate, and first-click CPA

- Why image ads and carousels get credit that video ads earned

- Using ad-level spend minimums to keep your Meta funnel balanced

- How "spend to message" and creative diversification prevent account fatigue

Mentioned in the Episode: 

Watch the Previous Episode with Ricardo Pouwels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P8Fs7DVjDg  

Join Ralph Burns and John Moran every Friday for The Ad Lab Live: https://www.youtube.com/@Tier11/streams 

Listen to This Episode on Your Favorite Podcast Channel:

Follow and listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/perpetual-traffic/id1022441491 

Follow and listen on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/show/59lhtIWHw1XXsRmT5HBAuK 

Subscribe and watch on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@perpetual_traffic?sub_confirmation=1

We Appreciate Your Support!

Visit our website: https://perpetualtraffic.com/ 

Connect with Ricardo Pouwels: 

LinkedIn: https://nl.linkedin.com/in/ricardo-pouwels   

Connect with Ralph Burns: 

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns 

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/ 

Hire Tier11 - https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now 

Your top-of-funnel ads might be driving more of your conversions than you realize. Let us audit your account and show you what's really working.

Talk to us at: https://www.tiereleven.com/apply

You can't just look at your top-converting ad and call it a day anymore. That ad probably isn't doing what you think it's doing. So if you've been asking "which ad is actually working," you're asking the wrong question, and it's costing you.

Thomas Mcnaught joins me again to break down how Meta's Andromeda update has completely rewritten the rules of creative performance. We get into how creative diversification has replaced targeting, how hook rate, hold rate, and watch time reveal the real story behind your results, and why switching off an ad with zero last-click conversions is a bad decision.

We also get into why leaving ads untouched for three to four weeks beats constant tinkering, and how AI-generated creative has produced some of the best-performing ads we've seen. If you manage or outsource Meta ad spend, this episode will change how you read your reports.

In This Episode:

- Why hook rate and hold rate matter more than last-click conversions

- How Meta Andromeda shifted targeting from audiences to creative

- Why letting ads run untouched for weeks outperforms constant optimization

- How to identify assisting ads that quietly drive conversions

- The role of creative diversification in lowering CPMs

- What the "hits" metric reveals about top-performing creative

- Why image ads often get the credit that videos actually earned

- Why optimizing for lead quality beats optimizing for lead volume

- How to build a monthly creative performance report

Mentioned in the Episode:

Watch the Previous Episode with Thomas Mcnaught: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMixZJvJvCY

Join Ralph Burns and John Moran every Friday for The Ad Lab Live: https://www.youtube.com/@Tier11/streams

Listen to This Episode on Your Favorite Podcast Channel:

Follow and listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/perpetual-traffic/id1022441491

Follow and listen on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/show/59lhtIWHw1XXsRmT5HBAuK

Subscribe and watch on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@perpetual_traffic?sub_confirmation=1

We Appreciate Your Support!

Visit our website: https://perpetualtraffic.com/

Connect with Thomas Mcnaught:

Website: https://www.thomasmcnaught.com/

Connect with Ralph Burns:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/

Hire Tier11 - https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now

Has your Meta ads performance stalled? We can help you redesign your messaging and creatives for sustained growth. Talk to us at: https://www.tiereleven.com/apply

Here's something growing brands don't realize until growth stalls: the messaging that built your business will eventually run out of steam, even while your offer keeps converting. So why does that happen, and what do you do about it?

On today's show, I'm breaking down a real client case study: an eight-figure SaaS-powered lead generation and coaching business that's been stuck at a revenue plateau for nearly two years. We dig into why their original messaging saturated the market, how a growth diagnostic uncovered an entire untapped audience they'd been ignoring, and why the fix isn't adding new ad platforms.

I'll walk you through the exact messaging extraction process we use to turn customer interviews, support calls, and event transcripts into content pillars that actually move the algorithm. If you're only running one or two creative angles right now, this episode shows you exactly what you’re leaving on the table, and how to expand your market without blowing up your budget.

In this episode:

- Why proven ad messaging eventually stalls growth

- How Meta's Andromeda algorithm builds individual funnels

- The real reason CPMs rise and cost to acquire a customer flattens

- Why creative diversification matters more than adding new ad platforms

- The messaging extraction process for capturing authentic customer language

- How to build a 10-variation content matrix around a single theme

- Using hook rate, hold rate, and link click-through rate in creative testing

- Why volume alone will not scale your Meta ads account

- How top-of-funnel creative shows up in branded search and MER

- Three questions to audit your creative strategy before your next brief

Mentioned in the Episode:

Tier 11’s Data Suite: https://www.tiereleven.com/what-we-do/data-suite

Wicked Reports Attribution Software: https://www.wickedreports.com/

Jim Collins’ Book, Good to Great: https://a.co/d/068eKQng

Listen to This Episode on Your Favorite Podcast Channel:

Follow and listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/perpetual-traffic/id1022441491

Follow and listen on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/show/59lhtIWHw1XXsRmT5HBAuK

Subscribe and watch on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@perpetual_traffic?sub_confirmation=1

We Appreciate Your Support!

Visit our website: https://perpetualtraffic.com/

Connect with Ralph Burns:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/

Hire Tier11 - https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now

Struggling to scale your ads? Spending more won’t fix the problem. Let’s figure out why your growth strategies are not working. Talk to us at https://www.tiereleven.com/apply

You've hired agency after agency, and no matter what they try, you can't scale your Google Ads. You don’t have a Google problem. It’s a creative strategy problem. Until you fix demand creation, no amount of campaign optimization is going to get you unstuck.

In this episode, I break down a real client situation: a 14-year-old B2B SaaS company spending upwards of $200K a month on Google Search with no good answer for why growth has stalled. I’ll walk you through why Google is a demand-capture platform, not a demand-creation one, and why 80% of any market lives in what I call the "zone of indifference."

We also look at why the real fix lives in creative strategy on Meta, programmatic, and connected TV, not another Google audit. If your cost of acquiring new customers keeps climbing no matter what you spend, this one's for you.

In this episode:

- Why Google Search has a demand capture ceiling

- The difference between demand capture and demand creation channels

- Why branded search clicks cost 10-20x less than non-branded keywords

- The "zone of indifference" and why it's 80% of your market

- Why the agency rotation trap makes Google Ads more expensive

- Why hook rate and hold rate matter more than landing page optimization

- The B2B creative mistake of writing ads for users instead of buyers

- How messaging extraction uncovers what decision-makers care about

- Three questions to ask your agency if your Google spend has stalled

Mentioned in the Episode:

Case Study on Optimizing Ad Spend: https://perpetualtraffic.com/podcast/episode-801-from-2-5m-to-4m-a-month-ad-spend-barely-changed-heres-why/

Tier 11’s Data Suite: https://www.tiereleven.com/what-we-do/data-suite

Join Ralph Burns and John Moran every Friday for The Ad Lab Live: https://www.youtube.com/@Tier11/streams

Listen to This Episode on Your Favorite Podcast Channel:

Follow and listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/perpetual-traffic/id1022441491

Follow and listen on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/show/59lhtIWHw1XXsRmT5HBAuK

Subscribe and watch on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@perpetual_traffic?sub_confirmation=1

We Appreciate Your Support!

Visit our website: https://perpetualtraffic.com/

Connect with Ralph Burns:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/

Hire Tier11 - https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now