Ezra Klein argues that the left desperately needs a unifying project — for its own survival and for the sake of the country. In this episode of Ross Douthat’s “Interesting Times,” Ross and Ezra assess the aftermath of Charlie Kirk’s assassination and debate whether the left has taken a dark turn.

• 00:25 How liberalism became “uncertain and exhausted”
• 08:37 The void in the Democratic Party
• 12:21 Does progressive despair lead to radicalism?
• 15:04 “Violence is contagious"
• 19:24 Can the left be more malleable?
• 28:20 The hippies, Peter Thiel and technology
• 32:11 Does the American left need cosmic hope?
• 41:59 A vision of the “good life”

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A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website.

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