Ask David: The Fear of Being Abandoned Living with Someone Who's Depressed Can Someone Else's Depression Depress You! The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the live discussion for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s questions.

1. Negar asks: How can I overcome my fear of being alone or being abandoned?
2. Stan asks: What are your tips on living with someone suffering from anxiety or depression? They can sometimes be demanding or argumentative!
3. Stan Asks: How can we protects ourselves from not feeling down during and after spending social time with anxious and / or depressed people because they express anxious or depressing thoughts to us. It seems to me that we must start to believe the distorted negative thoughts that the anxious or depressed person transmits to us, so we start to feel the same negative emotions the other person feels.

  1. Negar asks: How can I overcome my fear of being alone or being abandoned? Thank you very much You know, doctor, one of the problems I have had since childhood was that I always worry about being alone and losing the people I love. My mind becomes conditioned and a lot of negative obsessive thoughts come to my mind, even the smallest irrelevant and random external events create a sign and increase stress But I will not stop trying But I am very eager to know what you think about the mind and the irrelevant and random patterns that it relates to negative events and how to get out of this cycle You can even put this as a podcast or clip on YouTube, I think it would be very welcome because I have seen many people who have this problem🙂😇 David’s response Hi Negar, Sure, we can have a question on the fear of being alone / abandoned, and the many ways of overcoming this problem. Copying Rhonda, my co-host. It is covered in detail in the first part of my book, Intimate Connections. Methods we can discuss include:

1. Dailly Mood Log
2. Empathy
3. Positive Reframing
4. Deserted Island Fantasy
5. Cognitive Flooding
6. Please Predicting Sheet
7. Experimental Technique
8. Examine the Evidence
9. Downward Arrow / Identify Self-Defeating Belief(s) (SDB)
10. Cost-Benefit Analysis for SDB
11. Hidden Emotion Technique
12. Externalization of Voices (with Acceptance Paradox, Self-Defense Paradigm, and CAT, or Counter-Attack Technique)
13. Identify and Explain the Distortions

Warmly, david   Dear Dr Burns Thank you for all the effort you put into the podcasts, video clips and other material, which I find so helpful. They are a great addition to the books you have written. They are very inspiring and  life changing in my case. I have two questions that I would be very grateful if you would discuss in one of your ask David podcasts, if you think they are worth discussing. 2. Stan ask about living with an anxious or depressed person who can sometimes be argumentative or demanding. Do you have any advice for family members or housemates that live with a person suffering from anxiety or depression. No one wants to make the situation worse and maybe there are some suggestions. I know it can be very difficult living with someone who is anxious or depressed. An anxious or depressed person might sometimes be very demanding or argumentative. They might also sit around doing almost nothing all day or they might have odd sleeping hours for example.  They may make unreasonable requests or be overly sensitive and when hurt lash out at others for example. David’s Reply I would strongly recommend the podcast on “How to Help and How NOT to Help!” Will explain a bit more on the podcast. David   3. Transference of Negative Emotions? Why do we feel bad and how can we protects ourselves from not feeling down during and after spending social time with anxious and / or depressed people because they express anxious or depressing thoughts to us. It seems to me that we must start to believe the distorted negative thoughts that the anxious or depressed person transmits to us, so we start to feel the same negative emotions the other person feels. When this happens we might start to avoid contact with the other person which might make them feel worse. As always I would really appreciate your thoughts on the above two matters, if you think it is worth an Ask David question Thank you again. Kind regards Stan David’s Reply Negative feelings do not “transfer” between people. Only your own thoughts can affect the way you feel. Will explain more on the show! If you’ve been making the mistake of trying to “help,” it would make sense that you would feel upset, frustrated, maybe even angry. But it is your own dysfunctional way of interacting with the depressed or anxious person, and your own negative thoughts, that are 100% responsible for how you feel! But I will need to spell this out on the show! Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David

Dating, Part 3 Flirting Secrets, Safety, and More! Today we feature, Dr. Leigh Harrington and Dr. Angela Krumm, who will tell us how to flirt and date skillfully. Both Leigh and Angela are highly advanced TEAM CBT therapists and beloved friends and long-time members of our TEAM Community. Bio sketches for both go here. Include the idea that Leigh is a psychiatrist who specializes in social anxiety, relationship problems, bad habits, and depression, as well as traversing difficult situations with grace. Angela is a clinical psychologist and co-founder of the Feeling Good Institute in Mt. View, California. She specializes in social anxiety, teaching flirting skills, treating phobias, as well as health and lifestyle changes. Leigh and Angela, let me know what you want for your contact information at the end of the show notes, like email, website, whatever you prefer in case listeners want to contact you. Also, if you have recent pics we can use in the show notes, that’s cool, too, but not required. Rhonda began the show, as usual, with a warm-hearted endorsement, this one from a fan who greatly appreciated Dr. Taylor Chesney’s recent podcast on how to communicate with teenagers who may seem rebellious and out of control. The listener said it helped tremendously in her interaction with her 15 year old stepdaughter. I was not surprised, as Taylor is always filled with great wisdom and awesome advice in her teachings—something I also appreciate tremendously. The take-home message was to use the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, instead of trying to control them. Form a meaningful and loving relationship. It will pay off in the long run, and in the short run as well! Leigh began today’s podcast with a focus on safety when dating strangers, having fun on your dates, how to avoid dating the “wrong” people, how to tame your “dating addiction,” and how to set yourself up for success. Angela then taught us how to generate a fun and meaningful conversation with people you meet, and how to flirt and get things started in a positive direction. She explained that she went through a divorce when she was still young, and got lots of help in her flirting skills from several dear colleagues, including Maor Katz, Jacob Towery, and Stephen Pfleiderer. Mastering these skills was very helpful, and is now more than happy to share the incredible tips she picked up at that time, as well as her personal experiences, which culminated in a successful second marriage and family with an awesome hunk of a guy she met, using these skills. Leigh described how she works with patients who are shy by going out with them to public places where they can encounter and interact with strangers so as to confront and overcome inhibitions and intense anxiety. She said this kind of dramatic experience can have a sudden beneficial impact. She described taking a patient to a drugstore to ask a clerk about the best products for a toenail fungus. The clerk was exceptionally helpful and friendly. Leigh emphasized the power of sharing vulnerabilities to enhance connection with others. Angela said she does the same, going out with patients to approach strangers on the street with innocuous “openers” like asking questions, asking for recommendations, asking someone to settle a debate or something you’re puzzling over, finding a connection/something in common, or giving compliments. Although these things may seem overly easy to folks who have never struggled with social anxiety, they can be huge accomplishments for people who have struggled with social anxiety. For example, if you’re at the grocery store, you might position yourself near someone new and make a comment that seemingly could be directed at them or at no one at all. Something like, “There are so many types of apples. How does anyone pick?” These types of openers are low stakes and give the other person a chance to respond and strike up a conversation or simply move on. In general, she reminded us that it’s a cognitive distortion to assume that people will find out attempts to talk to them irritating or burdensome. Most people appreciate positive attention and like being helpful. Or, if you’re at the grocery store, you might say “Oh, there are so many types of apples here today. I’m not sure which type to buy.” You can also ask strangers for advice; this can be effective because people like to be helpful and it sets them at ease. Angela has prepared a guide describing many valuable flirting skills which you can see if you click here! She also included some invaluable dating tips on avoiding dating the wrong people, safety, and more, which you can see if you CLICK HERE Angela explained many additional key concepts, like Angela explained many additional key concepts, like

• False time-constraints (taking the pressure off others by keeping initial asks for time short; keeping initial dates short to leave others wanting more)
• How to decide how much to share when deciding to try to deepen emotional intimacy.
• Physical and emotional intimacy—how much should you share, and when?

Angela suggested that you can use a hierarchy of sharing – testing the waters by sharing things that aren’t too vulnerable for you. Then observe their responses. If they respond respectfully, you can go a bit deeper. So, in a sense, you are doing experiments to guide the ship. This is less stressful than thinking you are being judged and that you have to “perform.”

It’s important NOT to chase. For example, once you start dating someone, you might say, “I can only date you once per week.” Then the other person can ask, “Well, why not twice a week?” Now you’re the chased, and not the chaser! Angela says that “It’s always smart to be a little less than 100% available.” It’s great to work to keep your life full and active so you can set these limits genuinely. I have shared some of these tips with young people who are dating. Sometimes they protest and say, “I shouldn’t have to play games like that.” Here’s my (David's) answer: “In fact you DON’T have to play games. And if your current approach is working well for you, that’s cool. But if you find you’re getting left behind too often, you might have to rethink your strategies, and stop believing that you know all the answers! Humans are manufactured to certain specifications—they are very predictable. And, if you’re smart, you can use that knowledge to your advantage, instead of being gullible and overly idealistic. Leigh provided more invaluable information on the important topic of safety when dating. She does not give out her phone number, and especially not her address, for the first X number of dates. Also, you need to attend to your instincts, such as “I have a funny feeling about this person, but I’m not sure why!” LISTEN to that inner voice. She advises, if you feel SAFE you can have more fun, greater freedom, and more enjoyment. Angela said you can also ask for consent before you touch, but you can do it in a flirty way, such as: “You look like you want to kiss me. Is that right?” Of, “I know I’ll really regret it if I don’t ask you to kiss me.” Leigh advised noticing body language. Where are they looking? Notice their eyes, and make contact with their eyes. Their eyes will nearly always be sending a signal. Leigh said that early in a potentially exciting relationship, you may be waiting for a signal from the other person between dates. For example, have they called or texted you? But you don’t have to wait. You can take the initiative. For example, you can send them a good night text, and see if they respond. You can even do it a couple times. This is a good experiment to see if there are some embers burning while you fan the flames a little. Thanks for listening today! Rhonda and I want to thank Angela and Leigh for such thoughtful and illuminating teaching. We hope it brings some courage and love into your life! Leigh, Angela, Rhonda, and David

Dating, Part 2 Do you need some love? Expert dating advice today! Today we feature two of our favorite people, Dr. Kyle Jones and Dr. Carly Zankman, who will discuss many aspects of dating. Both Kyle and Carly are advanced and highly effective TEAM CBT therapists with tons of experience in dating, and of course, in treatment. They share their personal experiences, as well as their considerable therapeutic expertise, in this highly energetic podcast. They cover a wide range of topics including ghosting, dealing with people who give you the run-around, negative self-fulfilling prophecies, Rejection Practice, how to avoid “chasing” (which Kyle calls the “Temptations Trap”) so you can be the one who’s being chased instead of the one who’s doing the chasing, the importance of being playful and how to make dating fun. The also encouraged avoiding some of the common kinds of negative self-talk, like “This date will suck,” or “I’ll always be alone,” or “People shouldn’t be so superficial,” etc. Kyle and David discussed Kyle’s first Sunday hike. Kyle had just been rejected by his boyfriend, and was feeling super down, telling  himself he was a reject and a loser. They describe how Kyle change his internal dialogue during the hike, and began to talk to himself as a winner, as an awesome, hot, sexy guy, which lifted his mood tremendously. Then David suggested a strategy designed to turn the tables on his ex-boyfriend: “Just go to a gay singles bar tonight and pick up some good looking guy and get laid! If you do that, I can guarantee your Ex will come crawling back, and then you can kick some sand in his face!” Abd that’s exactly what happened! David emphasized the importance of looking your best, in terms of clothing and appearance, when dating, as well as the resistance that some people have (mostly men) who insist they “shouldn’t have to play the gain.” I described my collaboration with a salesperson at the King of Prussia Bloomingdale’s named Kuniko Finkelstein when I was in clinical practice in Philadelphia. I used to refer my single guys to her for a “sex uniform,” and she would select extremely sexy and appealing outfits for them. We highlighted the self-centeredness and foolishness of telling yourself that women or men should love me for the way I am. They say, “I shouldn’t have to play the game.” Of course, you DON’T have to play the game, but if you don’t, you may and probably will end up alone! And once you DO learn how to “play the game,” your chances of finding a deep and meaningful love relationship go way up. About Kyle and Carly Kyle Jones, PhD, is a licensed clinical psychologist with a private telehealth practice serving clients throughout California. He is a Level 4 Advanced TEAM-CBT therapist and trainer.  Kyle specializes in helping individuals navigate anxiety, relationship challenges, and obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), with a warm, and evidence-based TEAM approach. In addition to his clinical work, Dr. Jones co-leads The OCD Consultation Group, a monthly peer forum for clinicians dedicated to enhancing their skills in treating OCD. He also serves as adjunct faculty at Palo Alto University, where he teaches in both the master’s and doctoral programs in clinical psychology. A proud alumnus of UC Santa Barbara, Dr. Jones recently joined the alumni council for the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences, mentoring students and supporting the next generation of mental health professionals. Carly Zankman, PsyD., is a Clinical Psychologist and Level 4 Advanced TEAM-CBT therapist and trainer based in Mountain View, California.  She specialized in working with younger adults and teens, helping them recover from anxiety and other mood challenges, such as social anxiety and fears of rejection and vulnerability, low self-esteem, trauma, and relationship issues.  Carly loves using TEAM-CBT and Exposure Methods to help her clients overcome their fears, create deeper, genuine connection, and live more authentic, joyous lives! Since 2021 the Feeling Great Book Club has been a way for people across the world to come together in learning and practicing powerful self-help CBT Tools in a group book club format guided by your transformative book Feeling Great and facilitated by Brandon a Vance and Heather Clague, two psychiatrists expert in TEAM CBT. The Awesome Feeling Great Book Club Returns! It includes: - Large Group Demonstrations - Small Group discussions and practice, facilitated by former book club members. - Some small groups specifically for those using the Feeling Great App   - Two 12 week online groups starting mid September and going until the first week in December, - meeting 80-minutes a session - either Mondays at 4pm or Wednesdays at 8:30am Pacific Time so they can be accessible to people all over the world. Cost is $240 for the series, sliding scale down to whatever you can afford. For more detail and to register, go to www.FeelingGreatTherapyCenter.com/Book-Club

Dating, Part 1 Navigating the Dreaded (But Sometimes Needed) Dating Apps! Today we started a series on one of my favorite topics: dating. When I was in clinical practice in Philadelphia, a large proportion of my patients self-identified as single, without partner, so this was one of my favorite problems to help people with, and why I wrote the book, Intimate Connections, which included my some of my personal experiences learning about dating during my medical school days at Stanford. Our special guests include our own TEAM CBT expert, Jacob Towery, MD, who presents the free annual two-day marathon on shyness called “Finding Humans Less Scary.” He will be presenting this program at Esalen as well from September 8 – 12, 2025. Check out the September 8 - 12 shyness workshop at the beautiful and dramatic Esalen in the Big Sur! We are also joined by two wonderful young ladies: Sydney, who graduated in 2024 from University of Santa Cruz, and Sophie, who recently graduated from UC Berkely. They will give us some first-hand experiences and suggestions in the navigation of dating apps. Jacob said that after his divorce in 2012, until 2020, he went on a lot of dating apps and met nearly 200 women this way, exploring both short and long-term types of dating. He said it is sometimes difficult to figure out what someone is really looking for on an app, whereas in person it is easier. The group described the tendency to treat people as objects and ghost them when you decide you’re not interested. He recommended, instead, to treat people with dignity and care, even if you’re not romantically interested in them. He said that whether you’ve been on one or many dates, don’t just ghost someone. Instead, you can let someone down gently if you aren’t interested. For example, at the end of a first date in which you don’t find yourself attracted to the other person, you could say “I didn’t feel a spark but I enjoyed our time together. Thanks for hanging out with me.” This will make it clear to the other person you won’t be asking for another date, but in a kind way, and prevents them wondering for days if you will ask them out again. In addition, he advised that initially, don’t just text people back and forth endlessly. Instead, get into real life ASAP. Meet them for coffee or ice cream or whatever would be fun. That way you can find out whether or not there’s a spark of interest. Jacob also recommended using a recent photo of yourself. If you use an older photo of yourself, the other person may be disappointed when they meet you! Jacob recommended being honest about what your interests are, and what you are looking for. Are you just looking for casual dating? Are you only looking for something that may evolve into a long term relationship? Are you interested in having children? What are your interests or hobbies? The group discussed many topics, like is it okay for a woman to take the initiative and ask people out they are interested in? It’s easy to get overwhelmed by having too many offers, too many to select from. And the whole process can be incredibly exhausting. How do you make conversation in a way that will turn the other person on and make them interested in you? What’s the secret? How do you overcome the fear of rejection? And what if you protect yourself from the fear of rejection by hiding personal information about yourself. For example, you may think that if you didn’t really open up to the other person, their rejection will be less painful because they didn’t see your so-called “real” self. Jacob emphasized the importance of being playful and creative when dating. People really like to have fun. Being overly serious or heavy can be a turn-off. Thanks for listening today! Future topics will include how to flirt, how to change the way you think when you’re rejected, making people chase you, how to get close, and more! Rhonda, Jacob, Sydney, Sophie, and David

What's the Latest on The Feeling Great App? Featuring Jason Meno and Adam Holman  Adam Holman and his loving cat! The featured photo is Jason Meno, also a cat lover! Today we focus on a number of exciting updates in the Feeling Great app, and are delighted to be joined by our esteemed colleagues, Jason Meno and Adam Holman who have recently created and launched to new V2 version of the Feeling Great chatbot, which includes greatly increased horsepower, in terms of rapid and dramatic reductions in 7 negative feelings, including feelings of depression, anxiety, guilt / shame, inadequacy, loneliness, hopelessness / discouragement, and anger. The latest data indicates reductions of more than 60% in all of these feelings within the first 90 minutes of chatbot use in most new users, and more than 70% reductions in repeat uses in the same amount of time. This is absolutely phenomenal and far surpasses my expectations 50 years ago when I first imagined and visualized this app. In addition, the new version of the app also causes fairly dramatic increases in seven positive feelings at the same time--a highly desirable feature that was lacking in most previous versions of the app. Jason and Adam also described a number of exciting, user-friendly features like two-way verbal communication with the app so you no longer have to type your dialogues (although you can if you prefer that mode.) Another new feature is long term memory, so the bot will remember you and be able to summarize your previous sessions, and more. In addition, to illustrate exactly HOW the app works, we did a live demonstration with Jason, who has been struggling with several of his negative thoughts, like "This app might not reach the hundred of millions of people around the world who need it." His belief in this thought was 80%, and the thought triggered strong feelings of hopelessness, sadness, guilt, anxiety, frustration, anger, and inadequacy.  This is a valid concern since we must rapidly boost sales if we hope to break even and stay in business, We tried a number of methods that weren't effective, following the app's philosophy of 'failing as fast as we can," including Positive Reframing and Paradoxical Magnification, that did not help at all. In fact, Positive Reframing simply triggered increased resistance. Then we tried a method that has been really helpful for Jason in the past, Externalization of Resistance, and he was able to successfully challenge all the really GOOD reasons to cling to his negative thoughts. At the end, his belief in the thought was reduced from 80% to 20%, which was satisfactory to Jason as he said that some worrying is realistic and keeps him on his toes continually adding amazing new features to the app. If you've been struggling with low self-esteem or negative feelings or low self-esteem, you might want to check the latest version of the Feeling Great app. You can take a free ride and check it out. You've got absolutely nothing to lose but a couple hours of your time, and a life of greater joy and happiness to gain. Rhonda, Jason, Adam, and I appreciate all of you, and thank you for joining us today!

Teen Troubles? Don’t Freak Out! Featuring Dr. Taylor Chesney Today, we are thrilled to welcome Dr. Taylor Chesney to our podcast on troubled teens—what actually works! Taylor has been on a number of previous podcasts, and has been a beloved member of the TEAM community for many years! We were lucky to have her here in person as a member of our weekly TEAM CBT training group for several years until she and her husband finally returned home to New York in 2014 where she established her booming clinical practice working with kids and teens. She and her husband, Gregg, have four children of their own, ranging from 11 to 2 ½, so she brings a great deal of practical experience to complement her brilliant technical skills. Taylor will teach us how parents can deal effectively with troubled and impulsive and often smelly and irritating teens. I think you will find her message highly practical and inspiring, and perhaps the opposite of the ways you may have reacted to frustrating teenagers in the past. She says her goal is to help parents feel more confident in dealing with their teens and to teach them how to develop greater teamwork, love and understanding by integrating the Five Secrets of Effective Communication into their daily parenting toolkit. She says that “teen brains are different. They act out impulsively when angry, and can be hard to tolerate at times, or even often.” The goal is to learn to see the world through their eyes, and to become comfortable with being uncomfortable with their behavior. Remember that teens are supposed to be irritable and angry as they grow more and more independent, which is healthy. Compared to an adult brain that is more developed, has better impulse control, and “should be” able to tolerate emotions better. She thinks that parents can often do a great deal more than a shrink, especially if the parents are willing to learn how to listen and connect more effectively with their children. She says, “teen brains are changing constantly. Teens are frustrating. They are angry, disorganized, and want more than anything to spend time with their friends. They often complain, and might say that a party they went to was “lame and it sucked because the parents were there, constantly hanging around. They don’t trust us!” Don’t argue or contradict them, or try to teach them “good lessons”. Instead use Thought Empathy, Feeling Empathy, and Disarming. Summarize their words and feelings, and find truth in what they are saying. For example, you might say, “That does sound disappointing, having the parents there supervising all the time. I wouldn’t be surprised if you feel frustrated and ticked off.” You want them to talk! And they WILL talk if you listen instead of trying to fix or control them. Suppose your teen says, “My teacher sucks. I turned my homework in late, so he deducted 5 points. But I was up late helping my friend on the phone, and I forgot.” You could say, “That sounds super frustrating. I know how much you care about your friends, and would do anything to help them out. It sounds super frustrating that you got marked down on your homework. I know that school is super important to you, too.” In other words, your goal is to provide support and warmth, rather than trying to discipline or scold them. They want to please you, but if you put them down when they are complaining, that will push them away and will cast a shadow on your relationships with them. You’ll get frustrated and the tension will escalate, and you may end up shouting at them in exasperation. Then you’ll get down on yourself as well, and you may feel like a bad mom or a bad dad. Taylor points out that if we can’t model calmness at those moments of tension, then our kids won’t learn how to be calm in the midst of conflict, either. They’ll just learn to shout and argue—the very behavior that you’re modeling. Suppose you ask them to do the dishes, but 30 minutes later they still haven’t started. They got distracted. The idea is to use “Gentle Parenting,” showing some patience, warmth and understanding instead of flying off the handle. This does NOT mean giving in, but rather showing kindness when you have to remind them to do their chores. You might say, “I know you’ve got so much going on, and it can be hard to keep up with everything.” Your kids will become more and more independent as they gradually evolve from grammar school, where they are highly dependent on you, to middle school and then to high school. During this process, you gradually evolve from being highly controlling and protective to being more of an influencer and creating a loving relationship, a friendship, with your child. At the same time that you attend to changes in your “outer dialogue” with your child, it’s important to notice your “inner dialogue.” This refers to the way you talk to yourself about our child, and these messages can sometimes be huge barriers to using the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. For example, if you tell yourself that your child is “bad,” this may trigger strong feelings of anger and resentment which will make it vastly more difficult, or almost impossible, to use the Five Secrets. Taylor reminds us that “if you can’t or won’t learn to see the world through your children’s eyes, you are essentially rejecting them and their world, and you will not be able to connect with them. But many parents resist or reject this strategy for a variety of reasons. For example, you may confuse empathy with being weak, or giving with giving in. You may be afraid that if you empathize, your children will walk all over you and run wild. But in point of fact, if you yell and lose your cool, you’ve lost the battle. You simply cannot force them to go to sleep, or to eat what you want them to eat, or to do what you want them to do. And if you fight your battle at the height of the conflict, when the negative feelings are their most intense, you lower the odds of success dramatically. Give them the message of love, even at the height of the battle. It’s not about control, but connection. We demonstrated these beautiful ideas during the podcast with some role-playing and role-reversals. Taylor, your message was crystal clear, simple, powerful, and inspiring. Rhonda and I and all of our fans are indebted to you for visiting today! A big hug and thanks! Taylor, Rhonda and David

450: ASK DAVID, Featuring Dr. Matthew May "All About Anger" Is resentment ever rational or logical? Are perceptions of injustice always present when people feel angry? What’s the best way to respond to an angry criticism? The following answers were written prior to the show. Tune in for the in-depth, live discussions of these cool questions. 1. Mark asks: Is RESENTMENT ever RATIONAL? Is there any rational, logical reason to hold a grudge?  Hey David: I often have interesting thoughts at night – especially after consuming gummies or cannabis cookies before bed! Of course, it’s logical to learn from experiences and refuse to trust or give more money, time, labor, loan possessions, and so forth to someone that screwed us over.  We don’t ever want to be deceived, ripped off, etc., multiple ties, but beyond self-protective behaviors and assertiveness, is there ANY logical, rational reason to hold a grudge or maintain resentment? David’s reply: Thanks Rationality is not one of the strong cards in dealing with any form of anger. Motivational interventions are usually more effective, at least initially. That’s because when we’re angry we usually WANT to feel angry and we won’t take kindly to anyone telling us that our thoughts are WRONG! David 2. Mark asks: Are perceptions of injustice always present when people feel ANGRY? It seems to me that there is almost always some self-talk related to feeling unjustly treated – whether road rage, marital/couple conflicts, etc. I am eager to hear your thoughts/feel free to use any of this in your writings, podcast, blogs, etc. David’s reply: Yes, most if not all, feelings of anger are associated with thoughts of injustice, unfair behavior and similar kinds of thoughts. 3. Rhonda’s 5-Secrets question. In the course of a conversation that I was having with a colleague of mine (not a TEAM therapist), she told me that she felt I was criticizing her. I immediately went into a 5-Secrets frame of mind and tried to disarm her…saying, “Well you are right, I am feeling critical.”  I also used the other 5 steps except I did not offer any stroking because I was not feeling very positive toward her. She said, “Then if you are being critical of me now, you must be critical of me ALL the time.” How would you respond to that? Thank you! Rhonda David’s response We role-played this in real time, and discussed the power and challenge of genuine disarming, and illustrated it. Matt, Rhonda, and David thank you for joining us today, and hope you enjoyed the dialogue!

Stories from My Hippy Days, Part 2 Featuring David and Rhonda A year or more ago we did a Part 1 podcast on stories from my days as a Stanford Medical student in the late 1960s. This was the Hippy Era and the famous “Summer of Love.” A young man, Clyde, recently asked if we’d do Part 2, since we didn’t get to all the stories the first time around. As an aside, there are more stories, so if you like them, we’d be happy to do a Part 3 as well. 1. Husain Chung and the crazy teen from LA: When a stallion wants to run, you run with the stallion!” 2. A frightening encounter with Vic Lovell: And a mentor’s advice on how to handle it. 3. Bar next to the Free University Coffee House: Outrageous works, even with the Hell’s Angels. 4. The bearded man on the quad near the Stanford Student Union—Telling me to “sit with open hands” 5. Ken Kesey and his merry pranksters walked into the Stanford Student Union—they were dressed in pajamas or clown outfits and Neil Cassady was juggling hammers. 6. The tape recorder experiment: Bizarre week, unexpected conclusion. 7. Encounter at the Medical School: “Psychiatry and Psychotherapy—Are they Relevant or Obsolete?” Featuring Hussain Chung 8. Missing the medical school graduation ceremony: Didn’t pick up my diploma until years later. 9. Homeless in Carmel Valley: Saved by Ramadan, Subud and Bapak. Thanks for tuning in today! And keep your requests, questions, and feedback coming. Your satisfaction and happiness are our top goals! Rhonda and David

448: Ask David, featuring Adam Hollman Relationship woes--what should I do? How can animals have feelings if they can't think? How often should I fill out the Daily Mood Log? Why can't husbands express their feelings?   Today we are joined by Adam Holman, LCSW. Adam has recently left his full time clinical practice in Arizona to join our Feeling Great app team here in San Francisco. I think you’ll be delighted by his warmth and wisdom. Although he works with us full-time, he still practices one day per week and specializes in X depression, anxiety, and screen addiction(e.g. video game addiction and more.) He has appeared on two previous Feeling Good Podcasts, # X and # Y. We are delighted to have Adam as the honored guest on today’s Ask David podcast! Here are the questions for today’s Ask David. They were all written before the podcast. If you listen to the podcast, you will get much more information and perspective. The Questions Hello Dr Burns. I hope you are doing well. I participated in the webinar held on 18th of April. It was a good experience for me and I would like to thank you and your team in arranging for that.

1. Far asks: if You have a relationship problem, but also feel inadequate. Should you use the Daily Mood Log for the internal problem of inadequacy and the Relationship Journal for the actual dialogue?
2. Moritz points out that animals, who don’t think in words, still have intense emotional reactions, including fear and anger. For example, when a deer spots a predator, like a cayote, it feels terror and instantly runs to get away. Doesn’t this prove that terrifying events can cause feelings directly? In other words, that makes it seem like thoughts or cognitions are NOT necessary to feel emotions. What do you think?
3. Rob asks: How often do you fill out your own daily mood journals? Do you do one every day? Would you be willing to share recent examples of your own journals with podcast listeners?
4. Brittany asks: Why won’t my husband share his feelings? (Or, we could ask, why can’t men express their feelings?)

 The Answers 1. Far asks: If you have a relationship problem, but also feel inadequate. Should you use the Daily Mood Log for the internal problem of inadequacy and the Relationship Journal for the actual dialogue? Hello Dr Burns. I hope you are doing well. I participated in the webinar held on 18th of April. It was a good experience for me, and I would like to thank you and your team for arranging it. May I ask a question? When there is a relationship problem it should be addressed by the relationship journal and interpersonal downward arrow and not by the cognitive method as far as I know. What about when there is a relationship problem together with strong feelings of depression and frustration as a result of an internal dialogue of being inadequate and defective. Should this component be addressed by the cognitive method and straightforward technique? Thanks a lot. Far Kom David’s Reply This one just came in, so we’ll answer it live.   2. Moritz: Are thoughts REALLY necessary to have emotional reactions to events? Hi David, first of all, thank you for the podcast, and in particular for answering my question about how you help people with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, which came out a few weeks or months ago. I just finished listening to episode 430, where you stated that that negative thoughts can cause negative emotions (this part I'm totally on board with), but also hypothesized that probably only negative thoughts cause negative emotions. Did I understand that correctly? (If not, please ignore the rest of this email, it won't make any sense). I'm kinda confused about this claim. This is totally not my area of expertise, but I'm under the impression that fear is much older and more "primitive" than (at least conscious) thought, from an evolutionary point of view. It would seem unlikely that an old evolutionary feature in the brain would only be triggered from a newer feature. My other source of confusion comes from my own comparison with animals. It is my impression that basically all mammals show some kind of fear response, but we don't attribute thoughts to all of them, never mind full-blown self-reflective, conscious thoughts. So at least in the mammals with simpler brains, it seems likely that fear (and other negative emotions) could be triggered pretty directly without going through negative thoughts first, and it would also be quite surprising if we didn't all contain the same mechanisms, since we share most of our neural architecture with all mammals. Do you think these considerations are valid, and if yes, are they compatible with your approach? After listening to your podcast, my own mental model of negative emotions is something like this:

• stimuli can cause negative emotions directly; this happens in all mammals
• when the stimulus goes away, negative emotions also ebb and go away after a certain time, unless something keeps them alive
• in humans (and likely in at least some mammals), thoughts also can trigger emotions, and so they can disable the natural dampening of negative emotions.

This mental model might explain satisfy both the evolutionary considerations, and explain the data you've gathered from the Feeling Great app. I admit I feel a bit silly writing you this, because you spend so much more mental energy on these topics, so it seems unlikely I have anything to contribute that you and your team didn't think of. So, sorry for the long rambling, and I hope you still find something interesting in it, or maybe you can clear up some of my confusion about your model. Best regards, Moritz David’s reply Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I think they are awesome, and definitely not “silly.” Here’s my take on it, for what it’s worth, and I just speculate, too. All animals, including human animals, have perceptions. When a dear spots a cayote, the "stimulus" is a perception of a dangerous predator. This "cognition" triggers the emotion. People think cognition means sentences involving words, but my understanding is quite different. The idea is that any kind of conscious perception can trigger emotions, including sudden fear or anxiety. The perception might simply be an image, which is also a type of cognition or perception, that can suddenly trigger great fear. When I see a rock climber on TV, this "picture" or “perception” stimulates a powerful physiological fear reaction. That's because I "see" the picture as being incredibly dangerous and imagine falling. Thanks, david Might use as an ask David follow up, if that's okay! Moritz replies Ok, "simple" cognition without explicit thought can be enough to trigger emotion, got it. Feel free to use that as an Ask David if you want. Regards, Moritz David’s final reply Thanks, yes, it is the perception of danger that triggers the fear. Terrific! As another example, you could argue that when the airplanes flex into the World Trade Center in New York on 9/11, everyone felt terrified, horrified, and devastated, and it was the event that caused these feelings. Doesn’t this prove that thoughts, or cognitions, are not required to have powerful feelings? It would seem like you didn’t have to put a thought in your mind to feel fearful when watching the horrifying images on TV. What do you think, Moritz? Well, here’s my answer. It is not true that everyone had the same feelings watching that horrifying scene. We all had our own unique reactions, depending on how we were thinking about it. And of course, some people felt joy, glee, and more, and did NOT have negative feelings. That’s because they thought about the event quite differently. For example, Osama Bin Lauden and his followers when watching were delighted, and like thinking, “Those Americans finally got what they deserved!” Same event—radically different emotional reactions. All of your emotions result from your thoughts. The positive and negative events of our lives do not, and cannot, affect us directly. We have to interpret the event first and give it meaning. Thanks! David

 

3. Rob asks: How often should you do Daily Mood Logs? Do YOU fill out your own Daily Mood Logs? Hello Rhonda and David: I hope you're both doing well. I'm a long-time listener to your podcast, and I shared an endorsement that you included in podcast episode 333 about two years ago. While listening to an episode recently, some questions occurred to me that I wanted to share with you. How often do you fill out your own daily mood journals? Do you do one every day? Would you be willing to share recent examples of your own journals with podcast listeners? I can understand how you might not want to do this and certainly respect your right to privacy, but I thought also it might be interesting for listeners to hear. I would be honored if you would share your thoughts with me when you have a moment. Rob Robinson All the replies to this excellent question will be spontaneous and live on the podcast.

 

4. Brittany asks: Why can’t my husband express his feelings? Hi Dr. Burns, I have a question. This is something that frequently comes up in arguments with my husband. Here is an example from yesterday: Me after finding out he was upset the night before I said: “Why did you tell me everything was fine and it’s all in my head if you were upset?” Husband: I shouldn’t have to tell you. You should be better at reading me. I feel annoyed because when I did ask him if he was upset the night before, he denied it then put the blame on me the next day that I should be able to read his mind. That doesn’t seem fair. I don’t suppose I could put that in my five secrets response though as it wouldn’t make the problem better. What do you think? I guess I should probably do the relationship journal. -Brittany David’s reply Hi Brittany, Here’s my quick assessment. Your first statement to him when he said he’d been upset sounded a bit blaming. In other words, he was trying to express his feelings openly and told you he’d actually been feeling upset. And you immediately punished him. Can you see that? In other words, you said: “Why did you tell me everything was fine and it’s all in my head if you were upset?” Can you see that when he confided that he had been feeling upset, you blamed him for not telling you the night before. He might have felt scolded, put down. What do you think about that? And could that be why he has trouble expressing his feelings? Can I use this on an Ask David, with your first name or with a fake name? And yes, you can use the Relationship Journal on situations like this! For sure! Go for it! Sorry if this sounds harsh or direct. You know, I hope, that I have tremendous regard for you! David Other ideas include:

1. When we blame others, we are nearly always CAUSING the very problem we are complaining about.
2. Our anger and frustration nearly always results from “Should Statements.” In other words, he “should” have expressed his feelings sooner, and better, etc. This sounds like you expect him to be some ideal husband, rather than a real husband. I sometimes also have trouble expressing my feelings, or even knowing clearly what or who I’m upset with, or why. And I always appreciate a little bit of help at figuring that out!

Perfectionism Update Featuring Adam Holman Today we are joined by Adam Holman, LCSW. Adam has recently left his full time clinical practice in Arizona to join our Feeling Great app team here in San Francisco. I think you’ll be delighted by his warmth and wisdom. Although he works with us full-time, he still practices one day per week and specializes in X depression, anxiety, and screen addiction(e.g. video game addiction and more.) He has appeared on two previous Feeling Good Podcasts, # X and # Y. We are delighted to have Adam as the honored guest on today’s Ask David podcast! Today’s questions come all the way from North Macedonia! Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your kind response. I’d be truly honored if my questions could be considered for a future episode of your Ask David podcast. Your work has been a key influence in my research on perfectionism and its cognitive-behavioral aspects. Here are a few brief questions I’m currently exploring:

1. How has your view of perfectionism evolved since Feeling Good?
2. What strategies have you found most effective for challenging perfectionistic thinking in therapy?
3. Is perfectionism often rooted in a fear of not being “good enough”?
4. How does it typically manifest in academic or professional environments?

If you happen to include any of these in a future episode, I’d be grateful if you could let me know so I can tune in. Thank you again for your time and for the lasting impact of your work. Warm regards, Mitko Toshev Doctoral Student Faculty of Pedagogy University “St. Kliment Ohridski” – Bitola North Macedonia David’s Reply Yes, this will make for an excellent podcast with a refresher on perfectionism, featuring questions from Mitko and a spirited discussion with Adam, Rhonda and yours truly! We had an in depth discussion of all the latest bells and whistles in the treatment of perfectionism with TEAM CBT. This included the two very different but complementary approaches to treating depression or any of the 23 common Self-Defeating Beliefs. So, if you’ve ever struggle with the thought that you’re not good enough, or that you SHOULDN’T have made this or that mistake, this podcast will be right up your alley! Thanks, Mitko! david