Donald Trump and JD Vance have sparked panic over immigration in Springfield, Ohio. This week, the hosts talk about why our country’s immigration debate is now focused on a distraction instead of the core of the issue.

Plus, Ross is hot and cold about a particular pet obsession.

(A full transcript of this episode will be available within 24 hours of publication on the Times website.)

Recommended in this episode:

• "Trump Has Crossed a Truly Unacceptable Line" by Lydia Polgreen
• "What  JD Vance Believes" by Ross Douthat
• “How the Trump Campaign Ran With Rumors About Pet-Eating Migrants — After Being Told They Weren’t True” by Kris Maher, Valerie Bauerlein and Tawnell D. Hobbs in The Wall Street Journal
• The Real ‘Border Czar’ Defends the Biden-Harris Record, “The Ezra Klein Show”
• “Go West” by Lily Lynch in The Baffler
• “Melting Pot or Civil War? A Son of Immigrants Makes the Case Against Open Borders” by Reihan Salam
• “Chimp Crazy" on HBO

Thoughts about the show? Email us at [email protected] or leave a voicemail at (212) 556-7440.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.