In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin sits down with meditation teacher and social entrepreneur Dr. Fleet Maull to explore how Neuro-Somatic Mindfulness (NSM) intersects with psychedelic therapy.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-324/?ref=278

Fleet shares his journey from a 14-year federal prison sentence—where he founded the first prison hospice program and led daily meditation groups—to developing NSM, a radically embodied, neuroscience- and trauma-informed approach to practice.

He explains how NSM trains five key brain networks, why embodiment quiets a noisy mind more reliably than "thinking about" the breath, and how pairing NSM with ketamine or psilocybin can help shift insights from state to trait. The conversation offers a grounded roadmap for practitioners and seekers who want deeper stability, safety, and integration in expanded-state work.

Fleet Maull, PhD, CMT-P is an author, meditation teacher, mindset coach, and social entrepreneur working at the intersection of personal and social transformation. He is the founder & CEO of Heart Mind Institute, which integrates Western science with contemplative wisdom across trauma healing, resilience, psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, and conscious entrepreneurship. While serving a 14-year federal sentence (1985–1999), he founded Prison Mindfulness Institute and National Prison Hospice Association, catalyzing national movements in contemplative rehabilitation and end-of-life care. A senior Dharma teacher in Tibetan Buddhism and a Zen Roshi, Dr. Maull developed Neuro-Somatic Mindfulness (NSM), a deeply embodied, trauma-informed practice for healing and awakening.

*This October 14–19, 2025, Paul will also co-host Heart Mind Institute's free online Microdosing & Psychedelic Retreats Summit, featuring 35+ global leaders including Paul Stamets, Deepak Chopra, and James Fadiman. Register free via the links below.

Highlights

• Why embodiment beats "thinking about" the breath
• Prison as practice: hospice, service, and sobriety
• What is Neuro-Somatic Mindfulness (NSM)?
• DMN vs. task-positive network in practice
• Training five neural networks for resilience
• From state to trait: integration by design
• NSM with low-dose ketamine: retreat outcomes
• Rigidity, chaos, and the Goldilocks zone

Episode Links

• FleetMaull.com: https://www.fleetmaull.com/
• Heart Mind Institute: https://www.heartmind.co/
• Microdosing & Psychedelic Retreats Summit (Free Registration): https://thethirdwave.co/wp/?bwfan-link-trigger=9662151721791b9c6c99a7d8adb5929c

Episode Sponsors:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout