From The Green Notebook

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Dr. Eliot Cohen, Professor Emeritus and former Dean at the School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University, and author of The Strategist: How to Think About War and Politics, joins Joe to explore a fundamental question: What is strategy, and why is it so difficult to get right?

Cohen explains why strategy is about more than military power, advanced technology, or battlefield success. 

Joe and Cohen discuss why leaders become fixated on technology and metrics instead of the problems they're trying to solve, how military and political leaders must work together, and why intelligence alone is not enough to make someone a good strategist. 

Joe and Cohen also discuss:

• Why we've allowed the definition of strategy to become so broad that it's losing its meaning
• The seven fundamental questions strategists must ask, including "Who are those guys?" and "What is our theory of victory?"
• Why political objectives change during wars and what that means for military leaders
• How the United States struggled to understand its adversaries in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan
• Why an obsession with metrics can create the illusion of progress without producing meaningful results
• Why good judgment and character matter more than raw intelligence when making strategic decisions
• The importance of making room for unconventional thinkers and leaders who challenge the status quo
• How deep reading, writing, and keeping a journal develop the ability to think strategically
• Why studying military history helps leaders prepare for surprise and uncertainty
• How competition with China, emerging technologies, and increasingly complex warfare will challenge future strategists.

Whether you're a junior officer preparing for greater responsibility, a senior leader making difficult decisions, or someone interested in understanding how strategy works, this conversation offers a deeper appreciation for the challenges of turning military power into political success. 

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A special thanks to this week's sponsors!

Veteran-founded Adyton. Step into the next generation of equipment management with Log-E by Adyton. Whether you are doing monthly inventories or preparing for deployment, Log-E is your pocket property book, giving real-time visibility into equipment status and mission readiness. Learn more about how Log-E can revolutionize your property tracking process here!

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Ron Johnson, former Apple executive and architect of the Apple Store, joins Joe to discuss his new book, Shop Different: How Retail Revealed Apple's Genius, and the leadership lessons he learned working alongside Steve Jobs. From helping transform Target to building one of the most successful retail concepts in history, Johnson shares what it takes to challenge conventional thinking, pursue bold ideas, and learn from failure.

Joe and Johnson explore how Apple reimagined the retail experience at a time when many believed physical stores were becoming obsolete. Johnson reflects on the importance of having a clear vision, earning trust, building a culture centered on serving customers, and translating ambitious ideas into reality. He also discusses the challenges of leading change and the lessons he learned from his time as CEO of JCPenney.

Joe and Johnson also discuss:

• How Johnson came to work with Steve Jobs and help create the Apple Store
• Tips for working with a demanding boss 
• What he learned about leadership, innovation, and decision-making from Jobs
• Why Apple challenged conventional assumptions about retail
• The importance of creating an experience rather than simply selling products
• How leaders can build trust and inspire others to embrace a bold vision
• Why challenging conventional wisdom requires both courage and conviction
• The leadership lessons he took away from his experience at JCPenney
• Why failure can be one of the most valuable teachers in a leader's career
• The importance of keeping the human experience at the center of business

Whether you're leading a military formation, running a business, or trying to bring a new idea to life, this conversation offers lessons on vision, innovation, and leadership. Johnson's experiences demonstrate what it takes to challenge established ways of thinking, build something that lasts, and continue learning when things don't go as planned.

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Jared Diamond, Pulitzer Prize-winning author of Guns, Germs, and Steel and Prophets, Coaches, and Kings, joins Joe to explore a fundamental question: When do leaders actually make a difference, and when are their successes or failures shaped by circumstances beyond their control?

Joe and Diamond discuss how luck, timing, resources, and institutional advantages influence leadership outcomes. Drawing on examples from history, business, sports, and the military, Diamond challenges traditional ideas about great leaders and explains how natural experiments can help separate individual contributions from outside factors.

They explore why coaches and CEOs may account for only a quarter of their organizations' success, how favorable conditions helped Genghis Khan build his empire, why Winston Churchill was the right leader at the right moment, and how even brilliant commanders like Erwin Rommel faced limitations they could not overcome.

Joe and Diamond also discuss:

• The Hamlet Test and how to determine whether a leader was truly indispensable
• The strengths and limitations of using biographies to study leadership
• Why firing an underperforming coach may not improve a team's performance
• The role of luck and timing in Mark Zuckerberg's success
• How Seretse Khama, Botswana's founding president, chose to limit his own power for the greater good
• Why so few powerful political leaders voluntarily step down
• The importance of charisma and organizational ability in building religious movements
• What Diamond has learned about leadership across politics, business, sports, and religion
• How Diamond continues researching, writing, and learning at 89 years old
• Why keeping notebooks has been essential to his research and writing process since he was three years old

Whether you're leading a military formation, running a business, coaching a team, or simply trying to understand what makes leaders effective, this conversation challenges how we assign credit and blame. It offers lessons on recognizing the influence of circumstances, questioning the stories we tell about successful leaders, and developing the humility to recognize that even the greatest leaders rarely succeed on their own.

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Meet ROGER Bank—a modern, digital bank built for military members, by military members. With early payday, no fees, high-yield accounts, and real support, it’s banking that gets you. Funds are FDIC insured through Citizens Bank of Edmond, so you can bank with confidence and peace of mind. 

Meet Nightwing. Made to serve the mission. Hardwired to defend the nation. Against an ever-evolving threat landscape, Nightwing brings deep expertise and an unwavering commitment to U.S. national security. From cyberspace to orbit, Nightwing operates at the edge of complexity — delivering some of the world's most technically advanced capabilities to see what others don't, go where others won't, and achieve what others can't.

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Dr. Thais Gibson, founder of the Personal Development School and author of Learning Love, joins Joe to discuss attachment theory and how our early childhood experiences shape our relationship patterns, communication styles, and emotional well-being throughout our lives.

Joe and Dr. Gibson explore what shaped her journey into attachment work—including her own experience as a fearful avoidant individual—and how understanding attachment theory became transformative for her personal relationships and professional practice. They discuss the foundational concept that attachment styles are subconscious "rules" we learn about love, developed primarily in our first 0-8 years of life through repetitive emotional experiences.

Throughout the conversation, they examine how our subconscious mind (responsible for 95% of our beliefs, thoughts, and actions) drives behaviors we don't consciously recognize, and how our "reality lens"—shaped by core wounds and past experiences—filters how we interpret the world around us. They explore the critical distinction between conscious awareness and subconscious programming, using relatable examples of how anxious individuals might catastrophize when a partner doesn't return a call, while dismissive avoidants remain unbothered by the same situation.

They also discuss the four attachment styles in depth: secure attachment (roughly 50% of the population, characterized by the longest-lasting and most fulfilling relationships), anxious attachment (driven by fears of abandonment and rejection), dismissive avoidant (rooted in childhood emotional neglect and fear of emotional vulnerability), and fearful avoidant (combining both anxious and avoidant traits, often stemming from significant childhood trauma or instability).

Joe and Dr. Gibson also discuss:

• The Gibson Integrated Attachment Theory (IAT) Profile
• How attachment styles affect the workplace
• The power struggle stage of relationships
• Core wound reprogramming
• Negative versus positive framing in communication
• Boundary-setting challenges
• The role of emotional literacy

Whether you're navigating a long-distance military relationship, struggling to understand why certain patterns keep repeating across your relationships, or simply curious about why you react the way you do in moments of conflict, this conversation offers lessons on understanding your subconscious programming, recognizing how your past shapes your present, rewiring core wounds at the neurological level, and building the emotional literacy needed for healthier relationships and a more fulfilling life.

A Special Thanks to our Sponsors!

Meet ROGER Bank—a modern, digital bank built for military members, by military members. With early payday, no fees, high-yield accounts, and real support, it’s banking that gets you. Funds are FDIC insured through Citizens Bank of Edmond, so you can bank with confidence and peace of mind. 

Meet Nightwing. Made to serve the mission. Hardwired to defend the nation. Against an ever-evolving threat landscape, Nightwing brings deep expertise and an unwavering commitment to U.S. national security. From cyberspace to orbit, Nightwing operates at the edge of complexity — delivering some of the world's most technically advanced capabilities to see what others don't, go where others won't, and achieve what others can't.

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Lee Roberts, Chancellor of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, joins Joe to discuss leadership, service, and what it takes to lead a large and complex institution.

Joe and Chancellor Roberts discuss the experiences that shaped his approach to leadership, beginning with growing up as the son of two journalists and continuing through a career that has included business, investment, public service, and now higher education.

Throughout the conversation, they explore what Roberts learned from entering higher education as an outsider, how leaders develop and communicate a vision across organizations with many different stakeholders, and why he places such a premium on getting out of the office, walking around campus, and seeing things for himself.

They also discuss UNC's relationship with the military, Roberts' visit to Fort Bragg, and the university's selection as a partner for the Senior Service College Fellowship. Roberts shares what he believes senior military leaders and university faculty can learn from one another and how that relationship can strengthen both communities.

Joe and Chancellor Roberts also discuss:

• The role fitness plays in managing the demands of leadership
• How artificial intelligence will change higher education
• What universities need to get right about AI
• The books that have influenced the way he thinks about leadership

Whether you're leading a military formation, a business, a university, or any organization with competing priorities and stakeholders, this conversation offers lessons on presence, vision, service, and the responsibility that comes with leading an institution bigger than yourself.

A special thanks to this week's sponsors!

Veteran-founded Adyton. Step into the next generation of equipment management with Log-E by Adyton. Whether you are doing monthly inventories or preparing for deployment, Log-E is your pocket property book, giving real-time visibility into equipment status and mission readiness. Learn more about how Log-E can revolutionize your property tracking process here!

Meet ROGER Bank—a modern, digital bank built for military members, by military members. With early payday, no fees, high-yield accounts, and real support, it’s banking that gets you. Funds are FDIC insured through Citizens Bank of Edmond, so you can bank with confidence and peace of mind. 

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Michael Eck, author of Strike Season, joins Joe to tell the remarkable true story of a high school football team that suddenly found itself without coaches in the middle of a championship season.

When a teachers’ strike pulled the coaching staff off the field, Michael and his teammates faced the possibility of losing not only their season, but also college scholarships and opportunities to play at the next level. So they made an audacious decision: they would coach themselves.

For five weeks, a group of 16- and 17-year-olds ran their own practices, called their own plays, managed their own discipline, and somehow went 5–0 while allowing just one touchdown.

Michael shares what that experience taught him about leadership, trust, adversity, and responsibility—including the complicated example of Coach Walker, who stood with the teachers’ union while refusing to abandon his players.

It’s a story about what happens when the plan falls apart, no one is coming to rescue you, and you have to figure out how to lead before you feel ready.

A special thanks to this week's sponsors!

Veteran-founded Adyton. Step into the next generation of equipment management with Log-E by Adyton. Whether you are doing monthly inventories or preparing for deployment, Log-E is your pocket property book, giving real-time visibility into equipment status and mission readiness. Learn more about how Log-E can revolutionize your property tracking process here!

Meet ROGER Bank—a modern, digital bank built for military members, by military members. With early payday, no fees, high-yield accounts, and real support, it’s banking that gets you. Funds are FDIC insured through Citizens Bank of Edmond, so you can bank with confidence and peace of mind. 

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Olivia Fox Cabane, author of the international bestseller The Charisma Myth, joins Joe to explore the science and practice of charisma—what it really is, why the biggest myths about it persist, and how anyone can deliberately develop it.

This episode dismantles the idea that charisma is an innate, magical quality reserved for a lucky few. Olivia shows that charisma is a set of learned behaviors built on three core elements—presence, power, and warmth—that can be dialed up or down depending on personality, situation, and goals. She explains how these elements work together (much like sugar, fat, and salt) to create the powerful effect we label “charisma,” and why first impressions form in under two seconds largely through body language rather than status symbols or titles.

Olivia also unpacks the internal work required: managing the inner critic, dismantling imposter syndrome, using visualization and gratitude to shift mindset, and practicing self-compassion so confidence (and therefore power) can show up externally. She shares practical tools for presence (from a two-second toe focus to short meditation), warmth, and power, while warning about the real downsides of leaving the “charisma switch” on too long—people oversharing, leaders persuading others of flawed ideas, and the emotional cost of constant high output.

Joe and Olivia also discuss:

• Why presence, power, and warmth must all reach a minimum threshold, yet different “flavors” of charisma (authority, kindness, visionary, etc.) emerge from which element is strongest 
• How body language consistently outweighs titles, cars, or clothing in conveying power 
• Why distraction (especially phones) instantly kills charisma and how even a 17-millisecond delay in facial response registers as inauthentic 
• The role of self-criticism as the biggest inhibitor of power—and why self-compassion and instant self-forgiveness are essential tools 
• Practical ways to combat imposter syndrome: destigmatize it, detach from the feeling, and reframe it as useful fuel 
• Visualization techniques (and gratitude practices) for generating genuine warmth before walking into a room 
• How to accept compliments so the other person feels good for giving them 
• Emotional contagion in leadership and why a leader’s calm under stress can steady an entire team 
• The surprising science of voice, online charisma (bandwidth, camera angle, gesturing even when unseen), and why lower pitch is not inherently more charismatic 
• The darker sides of high charisma: over-persuasion of bad ideas, people getting “hooked,” and the need to sometimes dial it down 
• Why self-regulation is the single most important underlying skill

This episode is for anyone who wants to become more influential, present, and effective—whether in leadership, sales, interviews, or everyday interactions—without relying on status or personality luck. It is also for those who already feel charismatic and want to use the skill more deliberately and responsibly, for founders and managers seeking healthier team dynamics, and for anyone ready to treat charisma as a trainable set of behaviors rather than a fixed trait.

A special thanks to this week's sponsors!

Veteran-founded Adyton. Step into the next generation of equipment management with Log-E by Adyton. Whether you are doing monthly inventories or preparing for deployment, Log-E is your pocket property book, giving real-time visibility into equipment status and mission readiness. Learn more about how Log-E can revolutionize your property tracking process here!

Meet ROGER Bank—a modern, digital bank built for military members, by military members. With early payday, no fees, high-yield accounts, and real support, it’s banking that gets you. Funds are FDIC insured through Citizens Bank of Edmond, so you can bank with confidence and peace of mind. 

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On the fifth anniversary of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, General (Ret.) Scott Miller, the final commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan, joins Joe for a candid conversation about the war, its ending, and what we owe the people who served there.

General Miller reflects on watching Afghanistan collapse after he left the country, the anger he carried afterward, and why he ultimately decided not to let that anger define the rest of his life. He also addresses the questions many veterans still wrestle with: Was it worth it? What should we be proud of? And what lessons must we carry forward?

Joe and General Miller also discuss:

• The habits General Miller believes veterans should carry with them into civilian life
• How watching the fall of Afghanistan affected him personally
• What Task Force Ranger taught General Miller about loss, brotherhood, trust, and learning from combat
• The responsibility veterans have to remember the fallen and stay connected with their families
• Why learning lessons may be more valuable than simply assigning blame
• How repeated rotations and a lack of continuity hurt America’s understanding of Afghanistan
• General Miller’s perspective on the closure of Bagram and the risks involved in keeping it open
• Why senior-leader accountability is essential to maintaining trust in institutions
• The difference between winning tactical battles and achieving strategic objectives
• Why any serious assessment of a war has to begin with the objectives leaders were actually given
• What General Miller believes a successful transition looks like five years after leaving the Army

This episode is for veterans still making sense of Afghanistan, the leaders responsible for learning from it, and anyone who has struggled to reconcile honorable service with a painful outcome. Five years later, the question is not only what happened in Afghanistan, but what we choose to learn from it—and what those who served there choose to carry forward.

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George Barrios, former co-president of World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE), co-founder and co-CEO of Isos Capital Management, and author of Sometimes Wrong, But Never in Doubt, joins Joe to explore leadership, preparation, reinvention, and what it takes to transform an organization.

This episode examines George’s unconventional path from nearly failing out of high school to becoming one of the key executives behind WWE’s evolution into a global media and entertainment company. George reflects on the influence of his Cuban immigrant parents, the people who redirected his life, and the lessons he carried from each stage of his career.

George also explains why conviction should come from preparation rather than bravado. He shares how deep research, systems thinking, and a willingness to understand every part of a business helped him and Michelle Wilson recognize opportunities others could not yet see.

Joe and George also discuss:

• Why life should be viewed as a movie rather than a single photograph
• How George’s parents shaped his approach to work, learning, and adversity
• Why leaders must understand the box before they can think outside of it
• Why a short presentation may require hundreds of pages of preparation
• The difference between confidence and unsupported certainty
• Why people often want the position but not the work required to earn it
• The emotional journey of building something meaningful
• Why reading widely helps leaders connect ideas across industries
• Why experts can explain how a system works but may struggle to imagine how it could change
• What George learned from working alongside Vince McMahon and Michelle Wilson
• How George thinks about failure, reputation, reinvention, and rewriting the ending

This episode is for leaders, entrepreneurs, and problem-solvers who want to think more deeply, prepare more thoroughly, and pursue difficult work with conviction. It is also for anyone whose life has not followed a straight path and needs the reminder that one bad photograph does not define the entire movie.

Watch the full interview on YouTube

A special thanks to this week's sponsors!

Veteran-founded Adyton. Step into the next generation of equipment management with Log-E by Adyton. Whether you are doing monthly inventories or preparing for deployment, Log-E is your pocket property book, giving real-time visibility into equipment status and mission readiness. Learn more about how Log-E can revolutionize your property tracking process here!

Meet ROGER Bank—a modern, digital bank built for military members, by military members. With early payday, no fees, high-yield accounts, and real support, it’s banking that gets you. Funds are FDIC insured through Citizens Bank of Edmond, so you can bank with confidence and peace of mind. 

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Michael Kloepper, former commander of the 173rd Airborne Brigade and current Brigade Tactical Officer at the United States Military Academy, joins Joe to explore leadership, readiness, and the responsibility to pass hard-earned lessons to the next generation.

This episode examines what it means for a generation of leaders shaped by more than two decades of war to “empty the rucksack” before leaving the Army. Michael reflects on the urgency he and many of his peers feel to pass on what they learned through success, failure, command, and combat so future generations do not have to repeat the same mistakes.

Colonel Kloepper also shares how his experiences in battalion and brigade command shaped his views on mental, physical, and spiritual readiness. Rather than simply pointing soldiers toward more resources, he believes leaders and chains of command have a responsibility to create healthier organizations. He explains how programs built around outdoor challenges, shared hardship, reflection, and time with teammates helped reduce high-risk behavior while strengthening trust and readiness.

Joe and Michael also discuss:

• Why learning organizations must do more than collect information
• Why leaders should invest in people before problems occur instead of only responding afterward
• How shared challenges and time outdoors can strengthen teams and reduce destructive behavior
• Why people fight for what they believe in
• Why accessibility matters, especially when information is not moving through the chain of command
• The difference between highlighting problems and becoming a reactionary leader
• Why presence remains one of the most important qualities of leadership
• What lieutenants and captains should understand about character, toughness, command authority, and example
• What Mike has learned from leading and developing cadets at West Point

This episode is for leaders who want to build stronger organizations, invest more deeply in their people, and pass hard-earned lessons forward. It is also for veterans reflecting on what their service meant, commanders trying to create healthier teams, and anyone who believes leadership begins with presence, trust, and the willingness to stand alongside people when things are hard.

Watch the interview on YouTube

A special thanks to this week's sponsors!

Dunedain Systems is a veteran-founded defense technology company building Warmind, an AI platform that accelerates military planning, operations, and document generation. Warmind connects to your unit’s data and learns how your warfighting function operates, delivering outputs tailored to your SOPs and operational context rather than generic AI responses. Whether your team is building OPORDs, running intel workflows, or generating CONOPs, Warmind handles the heavy lift so your staff can focus on decisions, not paperwork. Built by combat veterans who lived the problem firsthand, Warmind is already in use across SOCOM and the broader DoD. The beta is free for anyone with a .mil or .edu email at dunedainsystems.com.

Veteran-founded Adyton. Step into the next generation of equipment management with Log-E by Adyton. Whether you are doing monthly inventories or preparing for deployment, Log-E is your pocket property book, giving real-time visibility into equipment status and mission readiness. Learn more about how Log-E can revolutionize your property tracking process here!

Meet ROGER Bank—a modern, digital bank built for military members, by military members. With early payday, no fees, high-yield accounts, and real support, it’s banking that gets you. Funds are FDIC insured through Citizens Bank of Edmond, so you can bank with confidence and peace of mind.