Live from Los Angeles, Phillip and Brian explore bizarre and brilliant intersections of commerce and culture of late, from commerce themes in Sinners to pope merch to DIY luxury. In an episode that’s part futurist insight, part sacred absurdity, they connect the dots between retail psychology, meme theology, and trade policy. PLUS: Phillip and Brian head to The Whalies with Triple Whale. Coming up on the show, catch their live interview from The Whalies with Bryan Cano of True Classic!

• The Commerce of Catholicism – Pope transitions now drive digital engagement, pilgrimage surges, and resale markets. Welcome to the Vatican's Shopify moment.
• Tariffs as Theater – The recent 90-day tariff reprieve reveals how uncertainty fuels deal-making and could permanently reshape global economic alliances.
• Contentification of the Sacred – From Conclave to meme lore, the papacy is now part of the entertainment-industrial complex, raising questions about the role of narrative and brand in modern faith.
• DIY is the New Luxury – Phillip’s journey from $300 Instagram pants to $6 Goodwill masterpieces signals a cultural shift: recession-core meets personal branding.
• Slop is Dead (Maybe) – Brian drops a bold claim: participatory lo-fi media has peaked. What’s next? Meaningful myth, meta-modern storytelling, and high-context digital ritual.
• [00:06:27] “Once you hit the limit with your product, you start to look at category expansion. You have to ask the ‘why’ questions.” – Brian
• [00:52:45] “The way we relate to culture is through the commerce experience of it—when an American lens is applied.” – Phillip

• The Senses: I Vatican’t Believe These Prices
• Insiders: Language Games

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Phillip and Brian bring hot takes on eBay’s Met Gala presence, the latest tariff turmoil, and the future of autonomous driving. PLUS: Dissecting Warren Buffet’s retirement and new research on Gen Z vs. Millennial communication trends. 

• Trends that feel like youth trends are actually just internet trends.  Their effects are now felt across generations, not siloed age groups.
• There has been a shift from modernism to postmodernism, and in turn, sincerity to ironic insincerity.
• Boy Meets World: 25 years after its series finale airs, we reflect on its sitcom era as a marker of TV’s transition from modernism and sincerity to postmodernism and ironic insincerity. 
• Kendra Scott taps into Gen Alpha.
• eBay returns to Brian’s radar and then sponsors the 2025 Met Gala. Coincidence?
• “Understanding the society in which you live, and the cultural moment taking place, is taken for granted a lot.” – Phillip
• “The Y2K bug was actually just the end of sincerity.” – Brian
• “We’ve leaned so far into cheap goods for so long, there might be a memetic cycle happening now where we lean back into goods that are durable.” – Brian
• “Autonomous driving is extraordinarily disruptive—just like AI is for information, AVs are for how we live, plan cities, and think about ownership.” – Phillip

• The Guardian: Gen Z Is Turning to Voice Notes
• Dirt.fyi: The State of A24
• Titan Caskets: Grave Conversations
• Waymo Partners with Toyota

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Brian dials in from B2B Chicago, Phillip gets existential, and Alicia Esposito returns to the show and makes her debut as the newest member of the Future Commerce team. This week, we unpack music festivals’ escalating cost of participation, Coachella as a retail laboratory, and how looming global trade challenges overconsumption. PLUS: The auto industry experiences a rare analog awakening.

• 70% of B2B purchasers are Gen Z or Millennials.
• Tariffs are a real threat – Brands are bracing for supply chain disruption, with some using tariff warnings as marketing FOMO triggers.
• Future Commerce analyzes the overpriced festival craze on Insiders #190 and Insiders #191.
• The draw to Coachella? It’s not music, or $30 Dave’s Hot Chicken sandwiches. It’s vibes.
• The Slate Truck represents a broader cultural trend toward digital detox and reverse skeuomorphism, bringing real-world, tactile experiences back into the digital age.
• [00:04:07] “Digitalization came for B2C and we didn’t say anything. And now it’s here for B2B.” – Brian Lange
• [00:15:17] “The reckoning has been coming for a long time. Overconsumption isn’t just a consumer issue—it’s a systemic one. If the climate crisis didn’t spark change, what will?” – Phillip Jackson
• [00:16:57] “At what point will the cost of participation outweigh the value of participation to the point where it's like, well, what am I even doing this for?” – Alicia Esposito

• Insiders #191: City of Coachella: Population: In Debt 
• Insiders #190: Is Coachella Buzz Brands’  Supply Chain Friend or Foe? 
• Politico: How Gen Z Became the Most Gullible Generation

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Phillip and Brian dig into the cultural implications of AI’s new role—not just as a tool, but as a confidant, a co-pilot, and even a therapist. They also get into the Kraft Heinz x A1 viral moment, trade war disinformation on TikTok, and how AI-fueled consumer aesthetics are transforming luxury. Plus: A new HBR report shows “therapy and companionship” is now the top use case for GenAI. What does this mean for society and us as individuals?

• Kraft Heinz's real-time A1 ad proves responsive marketing now competes on cultural speed.
• “Therapy and companionship” is the top AI use case of 2025—raising serious questions about trust and emotional outsourcing.
• TikTok disinformation and fake Birkin bags signal a new era of aesthetic manipulation and consumer mimicry.
• Agentic AI use cases like coding and life management are accelerating due to new protocols like MCP.
• The interplay of commerce, identity, and AI isn’t theoretical—it’s already reshaping real-world buying behavior.

• Order LORE by Future Commerce
• Harvard Business Review’s 2025 GenAI Use Case Study
• Kraft Heinz x Mischief “For Educational Purposes Only” ad
• All-In Podcast tariff debate featuring David Sacks and Ezra Klein
• TikTok’s disinformation around luxury goods

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Andrew McLuhan—author, speaker, and steward of The McLuhan Institute—shares rich, mind-bending perspectives on the current state of culture, media, connection, and commerce. Drawing from a generations-deep intellectual legacy forged by media theorist and philosopher Marshall McLuhan, Andrew explores what it means to live in a world electrified by complete digital immersion.

• “I quickly discovered that it’s easy to overwhelm people with too much information. It’s almost the worst thing you can do, because you lose them, and it can be hard to get them back.” – Andrew McLuhan
• “It’s much easier to teach people one thing at a time than it is to teach them ten things at once.” – Andrew McLuhan
• “‘A poem can’t mean something that it doesn’t mean to you.’ Which is kind of deep, but it’s not the cop out that you think it is.” – Andrew McLuhan, quoting T.S. Eliot
• “Marshall McLuhan saw that through human history we’ve been influenced and steered by the structure and nature of our innovations more than by what we’ve done with them. A new medium is a new culture.” – Andrew McLuhan
• “We don’t like finding out how we’re being used.” – Andrew McLuhan
• “Commerce is a form of media. It is manipulating people in some way and people are being shaped by it.” – Phillip

• How People Are Really Using Gen AI in 2025 – Harvard Business Review
• Other Harvard Business Review pieces:
  • Personalization Done Right
  • The Consumer Psychology of Adopting AI
• Eric McLuhan’s Taking Up McLuhan’s Cause – re-released
• The McLuhan Institute

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Live from Optimove Connect, Brian sits down with Optimove CEO Pini Yakuel and Nikolas Badminton, Chief Futurist at Futurist.com, to unpack the philosophical and practical implications of 'positionless marketing'—a radical rethink of organizational roles in the AI era.

• Positionless is Power: The most innovative organizations won't be flatter—they'll be fluid. Roles dissolve; talent flows where it’s needed.
• AI Is the New Intern: It drafts, it preps, it gets you started—but the genius still has to come from you.
• Old Process ≠ New Potential: Layering AI on legacy workflows just speeds up your inefficiency.
• Control is a Creativity Killer: Let go of silos, turf wars, and micromanagement. The next gen of leaders will trust, not gatekeep.
• The Kids Are Alright—and in Charge: Within 10 years, new mindsets will lead. Curious, collaborative, and chaos-embracing.
• [00:04:48]: “Startups get stuff done because you're positionless. One day you're marketing, next day you're writing code. That’s how you beat the big guys—speed and fluidity.” – Pini Yakuel
• [00:08:03]: “We create the tools, and the tools create us.” – Nick Badminton
• [00:14:44]: “New tech + old process = expensive old process.” – Nick Badminton
• [00:11:50]: “Friction is what makes life life.” – Brian Lange

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Brian goes live from Optimove Connect in London to explore how the idea of “positionless marketing” is revolutionizing the way we think about team structure, agility, and creativity in marketing. He chats with endurance swimmer and environmental activist Lewis Pugh, as well as DAZN’s Ria Chin-You and Optimove’s Paul O’Shea, about marketing’s future and how AI is shaping it.

• [12:25] Lewis Pugh shares how emotional drive and preparation fuel extraordinary feats—like swimming across the North Pole—and what brands can learn from that level of purpose.
• [20:29] “Epic” vs. “great”: Pugh discusses how to distinguish good work from game-changing campaigns.
• [33:42] Environmental justice, consumer justice, and the universal value of doing what's right—and what this really means for global brands today.
• [46:05] DAZN’s Ria Chin-You discusses managing CRM across 200+ markets with a team of nine—and the challenges of scaling personalization with limited resources.
• [50:48] Integrating GenAI into real-world workflows is still a challenge, especially for resource-strapped teams—but the potential is there.
• [58:24] Paul O’Shea explains Optimove’s vision for creating “super workers” through native AI integration and simplifying marketers’ jobs.
• [1:01:08] Cultural nuance is key—global messaging isn’t just about translation, it’s about resonance.
• [1:07:49] In fast-moving industries like sports, being agile isn’t optional. AI could be the key to real-time, reactive marketing at scale.
• “Practice until you can’t get it wrong, not until you get it right.” — Lewis Pugh
• “We need tools that help us scale personalization without sacrificing cultural authenticity.” — Ria Chin-You
• “AI isn’t replacing you, it’s your new teammate.” — Brian

• Learn more about Optimove’s positionless marketing platform at Optimove.com/futurecommerce
• Discover Lewis Pugh’s environmental work at lewispughfoundation.org
• Find Ria Chin-You’s work via DAZN and LinkedIn

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Get ad-free episodes and bonus content, including the full recording of this podcast, by joining Future Commerce+ at futurecommerce.com/plus

• Access to our new Word of Mouth Index with Fairing, a brand new member benefit
• Save 15% on Future Commerce print journals and merch
• Exclusive invites to physical events, dinners, and priority invites to industry events (SXSW, Art Basel, VISIONS)
• Ad-free episodes and bonus content!

Elizabeth Schmidt sits down with Kelly Cook, the new CEO of David’s Bridal, for a deep-dive into one of the most ambitious retail transformations happening today. Kelly is leading the iconic bridal company through its pivot from “aisle to algorithm,” turning tradition on its head while honoring the trust of over 100 million women they've dressed. Kelly shares how David’s is embracing inclusivity, rethinking what a wedding “should” look like, and creating magical moments for every kind of bride. Plus, we get personal stories, heartfelt leadership lessons, and a big-picture look at what the future of weddings might hold (hint: AR headsets and donut walls).

• From Dresses to Data: “Aisle to Algorithm” Is Here: David’s Bridal is now a full-stack media-tech-commerce company. With AI-driven personalization and financial tools like Pearl Pay, they’re reimagining how weddings are planned—and how brides are supported.
• Wildfang Collab Signals the Future of Weddingwear: Suits, sneakers, ballgowns, cowboy boots—brides today are expressing themselves in radically new ways. The Wildfang partnership reflects David’s commitment to inclusivity and non-traditional celebration.
• Intimacy, Trust, and a Whole Lot of Emotio: Kelly shares moving stories about the deeply personal nature of helping brides find their look. From stylists trained in body confidence to bell-ringing ceremonies, it’s not just commerce—it’s connection.
• Data is Power—But You Don’t Need All of It: Under Kelly’s leadership, David’s is cutting through data overwhelm. The new mantra? 65% of the data is enough to make a decision. Insight and action matter more than analysis paralysis.
• The Future of Weddings Might Be Augmented: Kelly envisions a not-so-distant future where AR and AI are part of the wedding experience—think immersive headsets, projection-mapped dresses, and hyper-personalized storytelling.
• “We’ve dressed 100 million women. That’s not just a legacy—it’s a privilege that allows us to pivot powerfully into the future.” — Kelly Cook
• “It’s women choosing to wear cowboy boots instead of a cushion Louboutin—and we love all of it.” — Kelly Cook
• “We serve anyone who’s in love, no matter who their partner is. If we don’t have what you need, we’ll go get it.” — Kelly Cook
• “You don’t need 90% of the data to make a decision. You need 65—and a little courage.” — Kelly Cook

• Read on The Senses: "The Auratic Economy"

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