Mark Jason Williams and his mom often butted heads on two issues: She was uncomfortable when he brought up anything about being gay, and he was tired of her incessantly talking about how he survived childhood cancer.

By the age of 40, Mark had reached his wit’s end. He stopped pleading for her to change and instead proposed a $100 bet. But the real change in their relationship came when Mark broke his end of the bargain. Today, Mark and his mother, Betty Williams, tell their story.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.