How God Works: The Science Behind Spirituality

The United States is a country founded on the separation of church and state. But what did the founders really mean by that? Should religion be banished from public life and policy debates? Or could it serve a purpose in the pursuit of happiness and freedom for all? 

On this episode, recorded during the Aspen Ideas Festival, we'll explore what the US founding fathers really thought about the different roles religion could play in society, how that view has changed through history, and what it means for the upcoming US elections. 

David French is an American political commentator and current opinion columnist for The New York Times. He is a senior fellow of the Trinity Forum, a former senior editor for The Dispatch, and former staff writer for National Review.

Jeffrey Rosen is CEO Emeritus of the National Constitution Center, a professor of law at the George Washington University Law School, and a contributing editor for The Atlantic.

These days, it seems like advice for how to “find your purpose” is everywhere. But what if purpose isn’t some hidden answer waiting to be found? And what if anxiously searching for our one true calling actually makes it harder to live with purpose?

On this episode, we explore some other approaches to the problem. Clinical psychologist Ross White tells us about how psychological flexibility can help us form purpose over time, and stay connected to it, even as our lives change. And we talk to philosopher Edward Slingerland about what early Chinese thinkers like Confucius and Zhuangzi would have made of our modern obsession with inventing a meaningful path from scratch. 

Ross White is an Honorary Professor of Clinical Psychology at Queen’s University, Belfast and the Founding Director of Strive2Thrive. He is the author of the book The Tree That Bends: How a flexible mind can help you thrive, as well as the article “Your purpose isn’t something you find, it’s something you form.”

Edward Slingerland is a Professor of Philosophy at the University of British Columbia and a Visiting Professor in the Department of Religion at Dartmouth. He is the author of many books, including Trying Not to Try and the forthcoming title, Learning to See: Literature, Moral Perception and Early Confucian Virtue Ethics. Find out more about his work on his website.

Join us for Season 11 of How God Works, starting next week!

How God Works will be back with all new episodes in September. In the meantime, we're excited to feature an episode from our friends at Oh God Now What, hosted by Niala Boodhoo.

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In the debut episode, "Voting Your Morals," host Niala Boodhoo welcomes public theologian Curtis Chang and Rabbi Jill Jacobs. Using their expertise as religious thought leaders, they help us navigate aligning beliefs with how we vote. And they offer perspective and tools for strengthening democracy outside of high-stakes elections.

Chang is the Executive Director of Good Faith, which helps politically ‘homeless’ Christians navigate a deeply divided world. Rabbi Jacobs is the CEO of T’ruah, which empowers rabbis and cantors to lead Jewish communities in advancing democracy and human rights.

As humans increasingly turn to AI for moral guidance and answers to life’s biggest questions, the lines between technology and religion are blurring—even leading some in Silicon Valley to wonder if AI might have a spiritual life of its own or be destined to change the world’s religious landscape. What does the impulse to see a god in the machine reveal about our enduring hunger for meaning, belonging, and spiritual growth?

Dave explores these questions and more with psychologist Paul Bloom, author Elizabeth Oldfield, and theologian Paolo Benanti in a discussion recorded live at the 2026 Aspen Ideas Festival.

Paul Bloom is a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto and the Brooks and Suzanne Ragen Professor Emeritus of Psychology at Yale University. He's also the author of seven books, including his latest “Psych: The Story of the Human Mind.” 

Elizabeth Oldfield hosts “The Sacred” podcast, dedicated to conversations about being human, finding wisdom, building a more tolerant society, and what spirituality and religion might offer in answer to those questions. She is also the author of Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times.

Paolo Benanti is a professor of moral philosophy at Luiss Guido Carli University in Rome and a professor of technology ethics at Seattle University. A Franciscan priest and leading global voice on AI ethics, he advises the Vatican on emerging technologies and the rise of generative AI and chatbots.

Religion is often about powerful beings coming down from the skies and humans yearning to go up to join them. Does that mean we can swap aliens in for God? More and more people seem to think so. In fact, many spiritually-minded people are looking to UFOs as opportunities to commune with enlightened alien teachers. Some believe they’re even aliens themselves, sent here to prepare us for a new age. But when religion gets mixed with conspiracy theory, things can sometimes take a darker turn.

Join Dave as he speaks with religious studies professor Diana Walsh Pasulka, about what belief in UFOs might share with other religions, and with anthropologist Susannah Crockford about how and why conspiracy theories are giving rise to a new spiritual movement.

Diana Walsh Pasulka is the author of Encounters: Experiences with Nonhuman Intelligence and  American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology. Find out more about her work on her website.

Susannah Crockford is the author of Ripples of the Universe: Spirituality in Sedona, Arizona, and the host of the show Miss Information, a podcast about the ways online misinformation and conspiracy theories infiltrate wellness communities and conservative Christian spaces.

Throughout history, humans have searched for signs and symbols to help them navigate uncertainty. From ancient Chinese divination texts and Greek oracles to astrology, tarot cards, and modern occult practices, divination has appeared in nearly every culture on Earth. And while some might think of these practices as relics of a more superstitious age, divination turns out to be far more central to human history, and human nature, than most of us would ever guess.

On this episode, we explore the surprisingly rich history of divination and what it reveals about our enduring need for meaning, guidance, and answers in the face of uncertainty. We talk to historian Michelle Pfeffer about divination's deep roots in both religion and science, and to sociologist and tarot reader Melissa Lavin about why practices like tarot are resonating with so many people today.

Dr. Michelle Pfeffer is a historian of science and religion at the University of Oxford. She recently co-curated the exhibition Oracles, Omens and Answers at the Bodleian Libraries, and co-edited the accompanying book Divination, Oracles & Omens. 

Dr. Melissa Lavin is a sociologist at SUNY Oneonta and a tarot reader. She is the author of the forthcoming book Greater Secrets: Managing Fate Through the World of Tarot, available for purchase in February 2027.

According to a 2020 Pew Research Center survey, more American Jews cite having a sense of humor as important to their Jewish identity than things like keeping kosher and studying Torah. 

Humor has long been associated with Jewish identity—from Jerry Seinfeld to Mel Brooks, Adam Sandler to Joan Rivers.

On this episode of How God Works, we'll talk with the latest member of the long tradition of highly successful Jewish comedians, Emmy award-winning actor, writer and comedian, Robby Hoffman, about how Jewish people have shaped comedy, how comedy has shaped the Jewish people, and the role humor plays in her life and approach to faith. We’ll also ask if humor itself can be a spiritual practice—a way to cope with life’s difficulties and maybe even touch the transcendent. 

Robby Hoffman is a writer, actor and comedian. Her Netflix stand-up special Robby Hoffman: Wake Up debuted in December 2025. She recently appeared on the HBO series Rooster. She was also nominated for an Emmy in 2025 for her guest role on HBO’s Hacks. She is the host of the Too Far podcast on Patreon. Learn more about her work on her website where you can also find tickets to her tour.

Also mentioned on this episode:

Jennifer Caplan, learn more about her work and find links to her books on her website.

We’ve all done things we’re not proud of. But why do some people seem to struggle so much more than others when it comes to avoiding harmful behavior? And what does it mean for how we think about blame and accountability if the answer has something to do with our genes?

On this episode, we’re rethinking sin from the perspective of behavioral genetics. We’ll talk to psychologist Kathryn Paige Harden about the surprising ways ancient religious debates are still shaping modern science, what genetics can actually tell us about why we fall short, and what it all means for how we think about accountability and repair, both for ourselves and as a society.

Kathryn Paige Harden is a Professor of Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin, where she directs the Developmental Behavior Genetics lab and serves as Director of Clinical Training. She is the author of Original Sin: On the Genetics of Vice, the Problem of Blame, and the Future of Forgiveness, and The Genetic Lottery: Why DNA Matters for Social Equality. Learn more about her work on her website.

Also mentioned on this episode:

Elaine Pagels, author of Adam, Eve, and the Serpent

Robert Sapolsky, author of Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst and Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will

Elizabeth Oldfield, author of Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times and former How God Works guest.

We’ve always assumed that if there IS a God, that God made us. But what if it ends up being the other way around… and we’re already further along than we think? Artificial intelligence is now offering moral advice, generating new forms of scripture, even simulating conversations with the divine. For some users, the line between useful tool and spiritual authority is already starting to blur. Why does it feel so natural for us to imagine there’s a ghost in the machine? And what happens when the people building AI start to talk and think about their creation in religious terms? 

On this episode, we’ll talk to journalist Sigal Samuel about where AI is showing up in religious spaces and how what it becomes will have major consequences for human agency and how we understand our place in the world. And we’ll talk to psychologist Paul Bloom about the quirks of human psychology that make us so prone to see minds, intention, and perhaps even the divine, in the machine. Along the way we’ll also ask: Can AI be morally formed? Could it ever have something like its own spiritual yearning? And if it could, what might it mean for us?

Sigal Samuel is a senior reporter at Vox, where she covers religion, ethics, and the future of consciousness and AI. Check out her writing in Vox’s Future Perfect column and follow her on X or Bluesky.

Paul Bloom is a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto and the author of several books, including Just Babies: The Origins of Good and Evil and Against Empathy. Learn more about his work at his website.

Also mentioned on this episode:

Stewart Elliott Guthrie, author of Faces in the Clouds: A New Theory of Religion

William Paley, author of Natural Theology (watch on a beach example)

Catholic priest and philosopher Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, and futurist Ray Kurzweil, who have both influenced the philosophical movement of transhumanism.