Jay Papasan talks with Steve Kamb, founder of Nerd Fitness and author of How to Try Again, about what it takes to change course. Steve shares his PACT framework: Pause, Accept, Change, and Try, and explains why real change often feels messy before it feels clear.

Together, Jay and Steve explore identity shifts, false expectations, the myth of “normal,” and how small experiments can help you move toward a life that fits the season you’re actually in.

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We talk about:

[00:00] Starting Over & Trying Again

[04:51] Steve’s 4 Step Framework

[12:10] There Is No Normal

[19:52] Change is Uncomfortable

[24:59] Experiment Your Way Out

[42:43] Force Yourself to Be Mid

Links & Tools from This Episode:

• The ONE Thing Operating System

• How to Try Again by Steve Kamb

• Nerd Fitness

• Steve Kamb

• Free Resources

Produced by NOVA