If you’re thinking about scaling an initiative, an innovation, a strategy, or even a successful part of your company culture, Bob Sutton has advice for how to face this difficult leadership challenge. He’s an organizational psychologist who’s taught management science at Stanford for more than 40 years. Along with his colleague Huggy Rao, he’s studied leaders who’ve scaled something successfully, as well as those who’ve failed at it. In doing so, they identified the habits that help spread what works and the patterns that keep early wins from catching on.

In this 2014 conversation with former HBR editor-at-large Julia Kirby, Sutton shares insights from Scaling Up Excellence, the book he co-wrote with Rao. Together, they explain how to expand what’s working at your company without letting growth dilute your success.

Key episode topics include: leadership, entrepreneurial business strategy, change management, organizational culture