Keeping It Real Podcast • Secrets Of Top 1% REALTORS ® • Interviews With Real Estate Brokers & Agents

Susan Santoro from Susan Santoro team with William Pitt Sotheby’s International Realty talks about her experience as a realtor, and discusses how she was motivated to get into this business by her husband who is a real estate developer. Susan discusses what is her drive to keep going and being successful as she believes that it’s important to believe on your decisions because in the real estate business you wake up every day unemployed. Last, Susan emphasizes that every agent should be very confident in their job and learn how to sell themselves.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Susan Santoro can be reached at +1 203 605 5297 and [email protected].

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
Today’s a special episode of Keeping it real as we get to speak with an agent who has been practicing for 39 years. Does she have some wisdom to share? Oh boy, does she stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris. I am your guide and host through the show. And in just a moment we’re going to be speaking with 39 year real estate veteran Susan Santoro. Before we get to Susan, just a couple of quick reminders. Please, as always support our sponsors. We love our sponsors. They help pay the bills for us and help us keep producing episodes. So check out their services and products and consider investing in them. And then second, please tell a friend about the show. Think of one other realtor that could use the wisdom that you’re about to hear from Susan and share this episode with another agent so send it over. Also leave us a review. I guess I asked for three things. Oh well. Thank you for everyone. We love you. We love our audience our listeners. We appreciate you but let’s get to the main event my conversation with Susan Santoro.

All right, today on the show our guest is Susan Santoro from the Susan Santoro team with William Pitt Sotheby’s International Realty in New Haven County in Connecticut. Now let me tell you more about Susan. As since 1985 Susan Santoro has held a prominent position as one of the most distinguished agents within the greater New Haven shoreline region. As the foremost agent in sales at William Pitt Sotheby’s International Realty is Guilford brokerage, she has garnered a reputation as an unparalleled performers securing the number one agent title and claiming the number three spot across the entire company. operating as a cohesive unit Susan leads the Susan Centauro team, which is a dedicated assembly of accomplished full time realtors, whose excellence earn them the distinguished top real estate award from Inman based on sales, amassing over 73 million in transactions just last year. Now year after year. Her achievements are underscored by multiple awards including the prestigious Connecticut magazine five star real estate agent Award. She secured the highest ranking for overall satisfaction. That’s a client award distinction showcased in Connecticut magazine. In addition to that she’s super into philanthropy and giving back she’s actively engaged with the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation, a testament to her unwavering dedication to fundraising and also is involved with the Ronald McDonald House trees of hope. And we are just so honored to have Susan on the show before I bring up before Susan comes on. want everybody to follow her at Sue’s Instagram, so go to Instagram Susan Santoro underscore realtor. Now we will have a link to that in the show notes as well as Susan’s website. Susan, welcome to the show.

Susan Santoro 4:35
Thank you. Nice introduction. Thank you.

D.J. Paris 4:38
Thank you. Now the last time I was for anyone who isn’t I’m going to interrupt myself now twice as getting through this. Anyone who isn’t familiar with New Haven, New Haven is just outside of New York. It’s right on the basically right on the shore, and it is known for a number of things. Most probably most notably, people of New Haven will tell you and they will tell you with a straight face that they invented pizza. Now, I don’t know if that’s technically true or not. And that is a debatable topic and I am not here to be the final authority on whether it was in Naples, Italy, or New Haven, but New Haven people are very, very proud of their pizza. And I have eaten New Haven pizza and I’ve eaten the very famous Pepys clam pizza, which sounds really gross for a lot of you listening, but it is delicious. So Susan, I am a big pizza fan. And I love the fact that I’m talking to a New Haven person because I love your pizza.

Susan Santoro 5:36
I look forward to treating you to it when you come, but it’s between puppies and Sally’s. We have these pizza wars all the time, and everybody has their favorite. in Wooster street. There are plenty of other places in New Haven also. And the pizzas good everywhere. I

D.J. Paris 5:51
went to chat GBT for the official answer. And again, chat, GBT. It’s not exactly the oracle at Delphi, but it’s a it’s close to accurate. And I said, Where was pizza originated? And it said, while people of New Haven will tell you that it’s originated there, we believe it actually is from is from Naples. But it’s still not totally clear. So we’ll go with new cars.

Susan Santoro 6:15
And you can get New Haven style pizza in your hometown too.

D.J. Paris 6:18
Yeah. So for any Chicago people, if you are familiar with piece, which is always on the top, Chicago pizza places list, it’s not Chicago style, which is the deep dish stuff, but it is it’s thin crust, more of a tavern II sort of style. But But no, not tavern, but thin and big. And just delicious. I am a huge fan of of New Haven style. So anyway, we are talking about, I can talk about pizza. I will. But we want to talk about Susan and all of her amazing real estate accomplishments. Now, Susan, you’ve been in the industry nearly 40 years, which is so amazing and impressive. And you are still crushing it all these years later, I would love to start at the very beginning of your journey, like how did you get into real estate and why? So it

Susan Santoro 7:13
was kind of an accident. My husband is a real estate developer and kind of ran out of land needed a place to build. And I was like, why don’t you get your real estate license and go and look for some land for me to build on. So that’s how it started. And then I thought, Oh, we’re gonna have a family, I’m going to be a stay at home mom. And then, you know, once you have a couple of good sales under your belt, you’re either born with it, or you’re not that adrenaline, that fire in your belly, you can’t wait to make the next sale. And then it becomes addicting. And so by the time my daughter was born, five years later, it was a major career. And I still wake up every single day with that fire, and I can’t wait to see what the next deal is gonna be.

D.J. Paris 7:58
That’s amazing. And it is it is fun. I would like to ask you, what is the what what fuels that fire like inside of you? I never really asked this question. But I think it’s a good one. Like, what do you do? Are you aware of what it is inside of you that is just so eager to keep going forward? Is there certain goals you’re looking to hit? Is it just a feeling of satisfaction? Is it about helping? What is it?

Susan Santoro 8:23
So it’s a lot of the above except that I except for the goal part? I am not believe it or not most successful people always say, Oh, I’ve got this, you know, board or this, you know, the goals of my year. I don’t like goals. I just like to keep on going keep on going. And you know, not many people have asked me you know, kind of like, what is your why? But the truth is, is I dropped out of college after my first year, I was never meant to go to college. My mom was not happy and told me that, you know, if you want to be successful in life, you have to have that opportunity and go to college and get a degree. So and my dad who ran a major corporation was CEO of a major corporation also didn’t finish college. So why think it was one of those things like I’m going to show her and now we just you know we laugh about it every time I get an award I send it to my mom and I say no let me know when I’m going to become something so that was kind of my why it makes my dad super happy still checks in on me weekly wants to know my sales. And you know it gets a big smile on his face. So I think I think he remains my why he wrote a wonderful book called pilot your life. It sits on my desk and it’s my motivational Bible. It’s a great motivational book for people in business and he’s definitely my why.

D.J. Paris 9:50
Well let’s Yeah, let’s give a plug for that books say the title one more time and Father’s Day life.

Susan Santoro 9:54
Pilot your life. My dad is Ronald Shaw. He was the CEO of the pilot and corporations?

D.J. Paris 10:00
Oh, well, we certainly know who they are. In fact, I have they have offices here in Chicago. And I have I have friends that work at pilot, oddly enough, I have one friend that works at pi or did. I don’t know if she’s still there. But oh, that is wild. Oh, my gosh, yes. That is a big company. Wow. And isn’t it amazing, not not an MBA, not a college grad. And he was a CEO. Incredible.

Susan Santoro 10:26
Yes. And a lot of the book kind of talks about that, you know, and it’s just that that competence level, you know, I raised my daughter saying, you know, make a decision, believe in it, own it, it’s yours, and then just follow it. And that’s just sort of a simple way of life, whether you’re making a decision on going to a party or not, or whether you’re making a decision on a business transaction, I think it’s all the same. Once you own that, you believe in it, you just keep going. And that’s how I feel about my business. And I tell my team and other agents who asked me all the time, how do you still do these hours, you know, it’s 6070 hours, sometimes a week, how do you still do this, after all these years is you wake up unemployed every single day in our business, and you have to go out and look your best. You know, if you wear makeup, put on your makeup, put on, you know, get dressed, just go out and present yourself the best way possible, and you will be a success, you’ll be confident and it’ll show. And with that comes success.

D.J. Paris 11:32
You wake up unemployed every day, you know, that is so true. And it is, you know, I know there would be people to say, well, that’s a negative way to look at it. But you know, what, I have found that having that thought of, you know, it’s something that’s pushing against me versus something I’m running towards, like, the idea that I’m unemployed, oh, my god, I gotta pay my bills. That is, I think, a more powerful motivator than like, for example, if I was, if I was being chased by somebody with a knife, I think I’d run faster than if I was running towards a million dollars, I bet I would run faster with the guy chased me with a knife. So even though I would like not to be motivated by by pain, the reality of it is it’s true. We are as agents, we are unemployed every single morning when we wake up. And it’s an opportunity to not only find business, but to keep the business that we do have, and really treasure it, because it can go away at a moment’s notice. That is a really great lesson, we’ll

Susan Santoro 12:34
come up to you at parties, people come up to the grocery store. Everybody wants to know how the market is tell me about real estate or asking you about a particular property. And so that’s where again, you’re selling yourself constantly.

D.J. Paris 12:47
How when, how important is it for you to have that information about the local market? On hand ready to talk? It may be, you know, to varying degrees of detail, I’m sure. But how important is it when you’re at the grocery store? And someone’s like, Hey, Susan, you’ve been doing this forever? What’s the market? Like? How do you typically address a question like that?

Susan Santoro 13:08
So it’s very important, and I am a statistics person. So I do look at the numbers every day, whether it’s against, you know, me, my, I don’t want to call them competitors, but it just associates other associates. But I always kind of know what’s going on. I look at percentages in, you know, I just wrote an offer, for instance, in Fairfield County, and I usually based just out of New Haven County, but because Yale New Haven Hospital has bought up a hospital down in Fairfield County, we now have a lot of our doctors that are going that way as well. So I was just down there, and their business is done very differently than ours. But before I went down, I went and I looked at kind of where the numbers are. And I’m seeing that things are going approximately 13% over asking. So it was such an important tool for me to be able to share with my clients. We crafted a great offer the first time they didn’t want to go that high over and and they didn’t get the first house and the second one, they listened to me we crafted a perfect offer the sellers could not say no to and it went approximately 12.5% over asking, but our offer got signed. You know, so I think knowing the numbers is very important knowing your market. And then of course, you know, you can always, you know, tell someone you know what, I’m going to get back to you later, I’m going to look this up for you and good reason to make a phone call back to that person. Absolutely. You’ve captured them. It’s like being stuck in an elevator. And you know,

D.J. Paris 14:43
I love what one of I just want to go back to one thing that you said that for me was was pretty rough. It’s something that I can’t remember another one of our guests saying in all the episodes we’ve done, so I just want to step on it a little bit because I think it’s is really, really a great idea. So what Susan said, and she said it very quickly, and I just want to make sure that everyone heard it. She said, You know, when she was about to produce an offer, she looked at, you know, obviously comparable places, she looked at list price, and then sales price, and just did the quick math on what you know, that percentage over was, that way she can bring that data back to her clients say, here’s why we should consider this type of offer based on you know, other other comps, I don’t know that a lot of agents do that. And that is, you know, a lot of agents are like, Okay, Mr. or Mrs. Buyer, how much do you want to spend? Okay, maybe we can go a little bit over. And it’s more of just like finessing like the feeling of the of the buyer, but not actually bringing the hard data saying we should offer X based on I think that is a really great idea for anyone who’s working with offers, do

Susan Santoro 15:51
your homework, you know, before you go to do an open house, and I tell the agents on my team. And I always remind them, pull up a circle on MLS, as to everything around the area that you’re doing the open house at, know your statistics, know what else is out there, that house might not be right for them, you can easily get in the car after open house and take them to look at your the other listings around the area. So just do your homework.

D.J. Paris 16:18
And you probably also in in the county that you serve. And I know you work, you know a lot of places in Connecticut. But I imagine you know what neighborhoods people like our starter neighborhoods, you know, where they they graduate to when you know, you know where the best schools are, all of this is we’re talking really about knowing the community, knowing the inventory, knowing kind of what’s happening. How much time do you think you spend every day, sort of checking in on those stats.

Susan Santoro 16:51
I do it every night. So I am Luckily, I was born with not needing a lot of sleep, which works great. In my personal practice, I when the world gets quiet, you know, 11 to 2am, I’m on a computer, I’m just checking numbers, I’m checking towns, seeing what’s new seeing, you know, sales, that’s when I work the best. So I would say I do it every single night. But in the beginning of my career, I did two open houses every single Sunday. Did that for years. That’s how I built my, you know, my list of clientele. And, and I always always went on back then, you know, we had a book that we used to flip through and see what the listings were around the area and know and know the sales, so I was able to hopefully answer a question that may have come up in an open house. So I think it’s a good practice. If you get out of the practice. That’s not good. Yeah, get

D.J. Paris 17:53
back in. It’s, yeah, doing open houses. It’s it’s it just is the thing to do. And it’s always the thing to do. And technology has not really changed it too much to where open houses seem to be still very effective. Have it probably drives you crazy when you see newer agents not wanting to sit open houses on the weekends. I think if I was a new agent that I would beg other agents to let me come to their open house, I would sweat egg about

Susan Santoro 18:26
right I tell them all the time here I’m giving it to you. I mean, people are the people that are walking in the door, I some are just doing this as a hobby, right, they just want to go and see a nice house. But most of them are coming because they have an interest in buying a piece of real estate. It might not be that piece of real estate. But you now have their information, you hopefully have a conversation and get up a you know, repertoire with them. And they’ll call you when they’re ready to buy real estate or you can be in touch with them. And I think the technology today, you get their email, you just drip on them and drip on them eventually, when they’re ready to buy real estate. What was that Realtors name I met and it’s going to be right on the top of their you know their head. So I think it’s really important to put yourself out there. And whether that open house gym, the grocery store, you know, my family makes fun of me, but I never I’ll never walk out the door not in a matching outfit or having my hair look good or whatever. Because you’re always selling yourself. So and branding, branding, branding, you know, put your name, put your name everywhere that you’re you know that that’s allowed. So yeah,

D.J. Paris 19:38
totally, totally agree. I think those are all amazing ideas and things I agree with personally as well. So sort of the irony of you, not being you know, a college grad, but being ultra successful in real estate is you actually work a lot with Yale, which is in New Haven as well. So you know you work with a lot of the doctors at Yale you work, I think with faculty as well. So let’s, you know, this is something that I don’t think we’ve ever talked to anyone about is, you know, being sort of a friend to the university where you get, you know, sort of known amongst, you know, the the management there, that you’re a person that can help when professors come in and leave or when physicians come and leave at the hospital. So can you talk a little bit about how do you build? How did you build those relationships? And how, and how does that how does that work for you?

Susan Santoro 20:31
So you know, it’s become a niche. You know, as I think I’ve mentioned to you that one in one of my clients years ago, named me realtor to the docks, and that becomes my, my hashtag realtor to the docks. And it’s not only it’s not the only people that I work with, clearly, but it was kind of an accident, it was probably about 25 years ago, sold a house to a chief of a department that was coming in. And it was going to be a struggle, they were willing him from Harvard. So it took a while negotiations take a while it was probably a good year, that every time they’d come to town, I’d show them houses, show them around, get to know the area took them for pizza. And we obviously finally got into contract. And he said to me, like, I promise you, I’m going to be building a very big department here. And that department, I’ve moved my it’s, I’ve moved my 49th Doctor into that department from him in 25 years. Now, obviously, those those sales turn into they multiply, because then one of those doctors has someone coming from UCLA, they just came from, let’s say, and from another department, and then they give my name to that department, and then that starts spreading around to department. So right now I have three departments that I really get fed a lot of business from, from the Chiefs directly. Now, that’s it’s a lot of work. It’s not just oh, here’s a doctor, and they you go out and you show them a house, it’s, I get them sometimes on their second interview here. And they still have maybe four interviews to go. They want to see if they can afford to live in Connecticut. So I’ll take them in the car, I’ll spend a day and you know, it’s kind of a, you know, driving them around and educating them on the areas and drive them by house. And so you know, here’s approximately what this one would go for. So I really give them a full education out of maybe 10 doctors that I’ll take in my car that they’ve given me, maybe one or two, if I’m lucky, it will take the position.

D.J. Paris 22:38
So, so it’s a lot of time. Yeah, it’s a

Susan Santoro 22:42
lot of time, but it pays off. Because like I said they what I find is that, you know, I’m educating these very brilliant people on such a different level, right? I’m not, I’m certainly not saving lives, but I’m changing lives, and they don’t have a lot of time. So they come to me, kind of I’m a very good listener, because I have to be, they tell me what they’re looking for. And then if there’s something obviously not on the market now, but when they’re ready, I’ll use my resources. I don’t love cold calling. But I’ll do it. A lot of times, I’ll call my list of clients that I’ve amassed over 39 years and say, you know, do you know anybody who’s looking to sell in your neighborhood, I have this great couple coming to Yale, they’d be perfect. I do a lot of letter writing personal letter writing and just sometimes get an open listing, just say, you know, just let me just show it to this one client. And a lot of people don’t want their house on the market. And they’re thrilled to do it. And it just becomes a smooth transaction. And but I think it’s I think it’s interesting, you know, kind of niche I kind of call it where healthcare, you know, meats and real estate merge, right. It’s that Yeah. And I just like I said, it’s, you know, I think teaching them they’re so brilliant, but they don’t know anything about real estate. She don’t know what a septic tank is. Their eyes light up when they realize like, what actually goes into a septic tank. You know, they don’t understand financing. They know what they make, they know they can afford what they can afford, but they don’t understand, you know, 15 year versus a 30 year, you know, a fixed rate versus an arm. So I love teaching them and then, you know, like I said, we kind of changed their lives quickly and I have to do it efficiently and move on. So

D.J. Paris 24:45
what I want to go I want to go back to the open house or sorry, the open listing idea, because this was something that that stuck out as you were mentioning, so walk us through that because I don’t know that everyone listening is going to understand what that means. So,

Susan Santoro 25:00
you know, they’re in other areas not here. You know, they kind of pocket listings right there. Yeah, sort of the same thing. Except that, you know, I will literally call someone in a neighborhood that I think it’s perfect that their house is perfect for, and ask them that, you know, would you be interested in selling, here’s what I think I could get you. And you don’t have to put your house on the market, you don’t have to clean it, you don’t have to, you know, pick your socks up off the floor. Here’s when they’re going to be your let me bring them in. And, and it’s simple. And with COVID, that that was, that was a gift to a lot of people who especially, you know, some of my doctors who obviously, you know, couldn’t get sick, and we just bring them into one house, it was perfect, great, we make the deal. They’re not as picky as someone that may have, you know, a no timeline, you know, they just they want, they figure out what school system they want. I always send them to like, Great schools.org, I let them do their own homework. Never steer anybody towards a school system, because it’s different for everybody. You know, somebody might be looking for a kid that’s really strong in theater, or really strong in math. So, you know, I steer them to great schools.org, and then let them make their decision, and then kind of pick out three towns and run.

D.J. Paris 26:25
That’s a great tip, the that website for the pushing that whole conversation off, you know, for ethics, obviously, we can’t really steer somebody towards a particular school, but you can steer them towards the website and say, Do your own research I have found in I just LinkedIn just told me, I’ve been doing this for six years, which I didn’t realize. And I feel actually a little bit like God, it’s been six years, maybe maybe I need to hang it up. But I’m having too much fun doing it. But the reason I’m bringing that up is Gosh, I don’t know, I just lost my train of thought, oh, no, it was it was about what I was reflecting on over the last six years. Sorry. So over the last six years, I was thinking a lot about when I saw that I had been doing this six years, I was like, Okay, what are some of the common elements of some of these top producers? And you just said something that I think is incredibly important. And I think for someone like you, it’s kind of just like, that’s what you do. But I think a lot of realtors don’t do this. What Susan basically just said was that she goes and finds her own inventory for her buying clients. Right? She’s not just scouring the MLS, which of course she is doing that too. She’s like, you know, I’m going to just lob a call over to so and so down the street, because that’s the perfect house for my client. And I’m going to see if they would be willing to so I find that that is something that top Realtors often will do. And other agents just don’t even occur to them. They just look at the MLS that’s what’s there. If it’s not on there, sorry, can’t help you. I love that. So you are literally

Susan Santoro 28:06
it depends. I think it also depends on the age, the the Gen Z’s that don’t like to make phone calls. I’ve been hung up on a lot in my career, right, a lot of doors get shut in your face. Keep going, right, just keep going. The next door is open and and just don’t don’t let it stop you. Yeah,

D.J. Paris 28:26
I think it’s so important because people either you can wait for them to get ready to sell their home, or you can proactively go to them and say, here’s what I think I can get you if you’re interested. And I know that everyone’s got a price, everyone’s got a price for their home, that they would be willing to move even if it’s there for ever home. So, you know, if I you know, I might think I’m in my forever place now. But if you came to me with 100% Return offer like that I would make 100% on that’s not my forever home anymore, I’m gonna find something else. So that is such a

Susan Santoro 29:04
smart opening line for that is fill in the blank. If I could get you X. Yes, you would sell your house right? And fill in the blank and see what

D.J. Paris 29:16
love that you

Susan Santoro 29:17
might you might be thinking that they’re thinking here when they’re really just thinking here. Yeah. So, you know, on a good example of that is I had somebody call me once for a donation. And they asked me if I would at night. It was an organization who was important to me, but I’d given to them before. And I was planning on giving more that year, that particular year. And they called me and said, just wondering if you would match your donation from last year. Dom So I matched my donation. They could have gotten double from me if their approach was different.

D.J. Paris 29:55
Yeah, that is really absent Loli

Susan Santoro 30:00
saw in the presentation, all in

D.J. Paris 30:03
the presentation, thank you for it. That is such a great, great tip. I love that let’s let’s talk about presentation. When you go into a listing presentation, let’s say for example, and let’s say it’s not a instant slam dunk, it’s not a past client, it’s your you’re in competition, maybe with another agent. How do you approach listing presentations, and because obviously, you win a lot of them. So tell us about what you do in a listing presentation that you think maybe is a little different. So

Susan Santoro 30:36
interesting that you say that, because the thing that you said that really stands out, is what people think, right? Oh, this is a slam dunk. What I tell anybody who will listen to me, nothing is a slam dunk. If you’re going on a listing presentation of your brother’s house, be prepared. Everybody is a client, everybody deserves to get the best to make, you know, hopefully make a profit. But everyone deserves to be treated exactly the same. And I’ll go back to that in a second. Just saying that, you know, I, I think a common thread when I read some of my, you know, hundreds and hundreds of Google reviews, is when people come back and they say, you know, she treated us like we were her only client. And I think that’s really important is that you give whether they’re spending 100,000 or 100 million, it doesn’t matter treat everybody the same because their house is their castle. And so I try to do I like to do a two step program. Not everyone will tell you, it’s the best way to do it. But I like to go out the first time, if I don’t know the people, I don’t know the house, give me a tour. And I’d take notes, tell me what you’ve done. Tell me what you love about living here. And then I’ll come back, you know, Tom, I have to do my homework. Because I don’t care how good you are, you can’t go out and tell someone a price of a house without seeing it. It’s impossible. So

D.J. Paris 32:01
to what by the way, I want to pause you for a second because it I want you to keep going with this. But this is what a consultant does a consultant goes into a company and says, Tell me about the company. And then they go, I’m gonna come back and give you my findings. So this is what we’re talking about with a two step process, you’re doing it very much like a consultant,

Susan Santoro 32:19
right? Do your home, you know, go back, do your homework, and then come back and show them nuts. You know, sometimes I’ll talk about a little bit of my marketing on that first interview, you know, kind of what I do, you know, very quick, they’re always like, well, you know, what’s your commission, you know, what, we’re gonna go over everything when I come back, because there’s so much more to tell you about what I’m going to do for you. And it’s always about what you’re going to do for them, you know, and not for yourself. And so I don’t go in prepared to you know, sign right here on the dotted line, I may lose some, I have gone out on a few in my career. And we’re I’m called back, you know, the next day and they say, Oh, we signed with someone to meet they that person was maybe just buying the listing, they told them a really high number that sure, you know, that they wanted to hear and get him to sign on the dotted line. I’d like to be realistic, and otherwise they’re gonna call me every single day, why hasn’t my house sold? So I like to do my homework and give them real facts. And I’ll never take more than 48 hours before I go back. But I like to be prepared.

D.J. Paris 33:33
You know, it’s so funny, because I’ve been talking to top producers, I guess for six years now. And they pretty much everyone, you know, has a similar sort of answer. Like, like you were saying, you know, well, not the two step approach always but, but doing your homework, going in with, you know, information, having a presentation, and really having it very well practiced. I suspect that is missing from a lot of realtor training. I think a lot of agents don’t get that sort of training of listing presentation buyer presentation. You know, how do you you know, how are you extracting information how are you collecting that information? And then how are you using that information to you know, hopefully get the deal it is it is something that is a real art and a science I believe and something that that you’re obviously part of so you’re when you first go out there you’re on like a more of a fact finding mission, you’re like, tell me about the home. Tell me about all the things that that you want or that you’ve done to the home and you collect all this information and then you go back you process it you put it through some some different metrics. And then you’re like, Okay, here’s what just like a consultant, here’s my report. Here’s what we’re going to do. And

Susan Santoro 34:46
I come back with a nice bound book and it is not just statistics about you know William Pitt Sotheby’s but you know about me and what I’ve done but the marketing I bring them you know, actual, you know, for Photos and show them the difference of your cell phone photo versus my professional photographer. I have, I’m not a good photographer. So just because of that, I’ve used a professional photographer for 20 years. So that’s important. I think that people need to see it, touch it, feel it, and I bring them this book show them, here’s what I’m going to do for you. Show them the advertising, I show them, you know, where their house is going to appear, how it’s going to appear, and then give them real facts. Here’s the house that sold, you know, within your neighborhood, a Walden, why isn’t my house worth that much? Well, because they have a brand new kitchen. And you know, yours is from the 1970s. I mean, I don’t say that, but, you know, I try to give them the reasons as to why I think their house is worth what I think it’s worth. And then we talk about just the kind of the art of pricing, right, not just that 99 cent pricing, you know, the ending with the 99. Sure. But I have always sort of said, you know, it’s really important to let the buyer perceive a value, you, to me, You cast a wider net, the wider your net, the more people that come in, the more people that come in, the more offers you’re going to get, the more offers you’re going to get, the higher your price is going to be. So I think it’s coming on, you know, right? Here’s your market value, let’s come on under your market value, let’s cast that wider net. And you know, you’re kind of like, walk into a department store, right, that loss leader at the end of the aisle, it got you to cut into the store, and then you’re going to spend more, that’s what we want, we want more people to walk in, we need the traffic to get your price up. So I think it’s just important to tell them at all aspects about marketing.

D.J. Paris 36:46
I think so too. And there is this psychological principle called escalation of commitment. So what Susan’s basically saying is, hey, maybe it’s smarter to price it slightly under under market value, so that we have more people competing. And the reason why that’s significant for human beings is we are wired to as we agree to something as we want to continue to agree to something. So that’s what’s called escalation of commitment, you guys can Google it, but it’s basically a psychological principle, it says the, the more as you sit, continue to say yes to something, you you become more and more committed, it’s harder, actually to pull out. So in other words, if you’re going back and forth with somebody on pricing, you know, there’s multiple offers there’s bids, it’s actually more likely that those two people will continue to battle it out versus one person saying I’m leaving. So it’s actually a really smart play, because it plays into our human nature of wanting something and wanting to compete, and win and achieve, which is, is built into us. So that’s a really smart idea is get a lot of people interested in the property, and then you can have them all battle it out.

Susan Santoro 37:58
Right, exactly. And I think also back to that kind of to stuff, I think that the other idea behind it is it gives you time, if you don’t know the people give you time to maybe, maybe make a connection, right now you you can go down a rabbit hole, certainly on social media, and figure out who they might know or, you know, find out oh, they used to work for this company. You know, oh, did you do work with so and so. And, you know, it’s about fo Gosh, 35 years ago, I think, had a marketing company. Look at all these notes I had received in the five years I had been in business, a beautiful thank you notes from my clients. And they came up with a tagline. And it’s real trust, real care, in real estate. And that’s what they came up with. After looking at all of that I care about people, I really, I really truly care about them. I have a baby shower of an old client, I’m going to in a couple of weeks, I’ve been invited to weddings and bar mitzvahs and barbecues. And that’s a testament to me just fostering my relationships with people. But I, like my physicians, maybe I’m just, you know, I should have been a doctor and my other life if I ever wanted to go to college. I love medicine, I’m fascinated by it. And making them my friends has not only you know, it’s been great because I get to learn. But obviously, it’s helped in my career because they just continue to refer me and refer me. And it’s all this business if you want to stay in it long term. It’s just all about relationships. And I have a team that I started about 10 years ago, only two people on it, I don’t want more. It’s very different team. I kind of you know, I say it’s like one plus one plus one equals three. You know, putting our ideas and thoughts together and also putting our volume together just makes us greater, you know, it’s small team. But number one small team in Connecticut means a lot more More than just an individual person, and absolutely unique people, you know, everyone’s different, again, fostering relationships. One of the girls has been with me about 10 years, she’s a marathon runner, great connections, right? She’s out there selling herself all of the time. Obviously, we’ve made up a t shirt. So it says the Susan Santoro team, but then in the back in big letters down her backs as realtor, let someone come up and ask her a question while she’s out running or at the end of a marathon. Tap into that, right, one of the other girls has been with me about four years, she’s a mom of three kids, that is your perfect audience. Get involved with their sports get involved with their, you know, PTA. So, you know, I love to be able to problem solve with them love to be able to teach them how to tap into their resources and go through your index cards and call people. q4. I said, I’m not a goal setter in the beginning. q4 is my very favorite quarter. Because I like to look and see how much I could actually accomplish in q4. So I go through my address book, and I reach out to as many clients as I possibly can in a week.

D.J. Paris 41:17
What’s amazing, you know, that is a great idea. Because most people step off the gas and q4, you know, we have the holidays, we have family stuff, the best. But you you step on the gas.

Susan Santoro 41:30
Absolutely. It’s my it’s my very favorite time. And and I like to see like what can I accomplish between now and then. So, and again, I don’t set myself a number goal. But you know, sometimes it’s just as simple as an email, you know, hey, drove by your house today love the new color of your front door. Or you know, pick up a phone, you know, was thinking about you know, or look on look on Facebook, right? See how old their kids are now have a reason to call them. fostering relationships is key. If you want to stay long term in this business, it’s definitely the key to my success.

D.J. Paris 42:07
And thank God for social media in the sense that we now do get information about our clients, if we’re following them. And we get to enjoy their lives as they post about it. And it like Susan, like you just said, I get to call, Hey, I just saw you went on a trip to Cancun hope it was great. It’s the perfect reason to pick up the phone and not have to do a sales pitch on oh, by the way, you know, I you know, because that can always come up naturally as well. But I want to I want to go back to something you said that I think is really critical. And I think it comes through is care and trust, what you’re really doing because I believe that care and trust are earned, not automatically given and you have a huge an amazing history of constantly demonstrating care and trust. And therefore that when you know, it’s funny that your niche, one of your niches is doctors. Because I think I think the same way when I choose a doctor for myself a physician, I the only thing I really, really that’s most important to me is do I think this physician cares about me even just a little bit. If they care about me, I’m good. If I feel that they don’t care about me, then I’m going to look for another doctor. So I use that same principle. When I’m when I’m going to see a doctor I want I want I want them to actually care about me. People want the same thing, obviously, in a realtor in any in any service position. So I think that is such an important thing is demonstrating care and trust is really should be if people are going to set goals. I think that’s a heck of a good goal to set is I want every one of my clients to go. You know, Susan cares about me, or DJ cares about me or whatever that that is worth its weight in gold. Absolutely. Now, what are you what do you do to stay in touch with clients in between transactions? Because of course, people you know, buy their home and maybe they don’t move forever or for 10 years or what are we doing to stay in touch and make sure they don’t forget about you? Anniversary

Susan Santoro 44:22
cards? Happy anniversary, right? Some people are like, Oh my gosh, I can’t believe this house seven years because you forget right you forget how long you’ve been in it. So I’ll always write in the card how long sometimes I’ll you know, write little personal notes. Thanksgiving. I don’t do Christmas. I don’t do Hanukkah. I don’t sometimes I’ll do New Year’s Thanksgiving Thanksgiving card. It’s a great time to say thank you. You just does exactly what you’re saying. Thank you for your referrals, even if they’ve never given you one. They may have thought that they’ve mentioned your name. It may not have panned out but you’re thinking Am I do send a gift, I can’t talk about, you know what it is because you’re not supposed to. But I do send a gift to every client who does give me a referral, after closing, and, and they’re so appreciative of it and very surprised when they get it. And then they liked the idea of getting this gift. And so then they try to give you more. So one of my departments at Yale, there’s two girls who are in competition to see who can they keep calling me who’s given you more referrals this year. So it’s actually become like this very funny game. But I then I, like I said, I do that q4, I do spend a lot of time I have an old fashion, right, I have an index box with all of my clients names on an individual card. And then each month of when they bought it makes it easy. I obviously have it on computer also. But sure, I’m visual. So we’ll go through that card box. And we’ll start calling, you know, just checking in sending a note, like I said, send an email, there’s so many things that you can do, you do get hit up, I’m not going to tell you don’t for donations, you know, kids, add books, or you know, when you buy a pie or buy a candy I do I always buy anybody that comes to me and says they weren’t, you know, trying to sell food, I buy it and bring it down to the Ronald McDonald House, because it’s a very, unfortunately, a full house all the time. So I’ll always drop stuff there. But so yeah, you do get hit up, you do have to go out for drinks or dinner or lunch once in a while. I don’t mind it. Again, I love to learn things from people. So it just goes back to that being a good listener. And you just, if you just quiet for a minute and just listen to somebody else, you’re going to gain something that’s going to be momentous for you, it’s just going to change things for you, they might not realize that they’re telling you about their neighbor, who is going into a retirement home, they just might mention that not thinking about business. I heard that, go back to my office, I look up that neighbor’s name. And I write that neighbor letter. And I keep in touch and I keep sending letters until that neighbor calls me for a listing appointment. So good listening, just be a good listener.

D.J. Paris 47:32
Be a good listener and be inquisitive, like ask lots of questions about someone else’s life, right? Like, know what is going on. Because home and life is connected, right? We’re, they’re intricate, they’re obviously interchangeable. You know, your life and your home is really one thing. And so being in touch with what is going on in your clients lives. And listening, as you mentioned, allows you to just learn about what other opportunities may exist that they might not have even thought as an opportunity for you. They’re just sharing, you know, parts of their life.

Susan Santoro 48:10
Right. And I think you know, the other thing is, don’t make it about yourself. Very simply, just coming to mind quickly. You sent me an email two days ago, and I had a nutty day, and actually was traveling back from Chicago visiting my family and and then had a crazy day just hit the ground running. So instead of writing you an email saying, you know, I’m sorry, right? I’m sorry, is about me. You probably don’t realize this, but I wrote you and just said, Thanks for your patience. Now I’ve made it about you. Yes. It’s very important to realize, none of this is about me, me, me. You know, there’s lots of agents out there who are going to post every day. You know, I’m the best. I’m the greatest and there. There’s enough business to go around that. Some people want to deal with people like that, that’s fine. But I try to I want to make it about you make it about the client, what can I do for you? Not what it’s going to do for me and make me number one that will come just make it about make it about your client.

D.J. Paris 49:18
Yeah, demonstrate care and trust. It just it all it all goes back to that this this accountability thing to is, is acknowledging thank you for your patience. You know if you know we’re delayed on a response or an email, thank you so much for your patience. Here’s the answer that you’re looking for. Absolutely brilliant. versus saying, I’m sorry, DJ. Sorry, DJ. It’s not about DJ it’s about telling the client Hey,

Susan Santoro 49:48
there’s time waiting, right? Yeah,

D.J. Paris 49:50
I kept you waiting. Yes, I am. Sorry about that. But I acknowledged what you have. Yeah, that’s a really smart, smart idea. As we all

Susan Santoro 50:00
care, real trust in real estate, it’s my tagline. Actually, I should, if I, you know, want it someday, maybe I’ll get it tattooed someday. But, but it is, it’s a motto that I live by how important

D.J. Paris 50:13
is it to have a niche to read? Whether it’s, you know, your your, you know, you work with doctors you work with, with faculty at Yale, obviously, you have, you know, other clients as well. But how important is it to have a specialty, like, just like doctors have specialties?

Susan Santoro 50:29
I think nowadays, I guess if I was to get into the business again, you know, if that was new, I would try to focus more on that, I think there’s a lot of people who have made that really their success, you know, where it’s, you know, the, the waterfront specialist, or the this specialist, I think, you know, I can’t really called being a realtor to the docks by my niche. But I guess it’s just what I sell, you know, myself, and it’s just the time that I can dedicate to them, right, sometimes they don’t even realize what time it is, especially the ones in training, you know, they’re doing the residency here. They’re in surgery, they get out to in the morning, and they’re sitting down, and they might be looking online, to see all of the stuff that I you know, sent to them to look at today, all the new listings, and they don’t even think twice, they’ll start texting me. Yeah. And sometimes I’ll surprise them and answer them at 230 or three in the morning. You know, other times, I won’t and you know, try to say, okay, I get a little respect of time. But, but I think that that’s, you know, really important, I pay attention to them. And so I think that that’s sort of the niche thing, again, came about kind of by accident like that, but that’s when people come to me, and they say, Oh, Dr. So and So recommended you, I’m going to be you know, I’m coming in, in the neurology department. Great, you know, and that’s it. Yeah. And I was told that you never sleep. So it’s like, it’s become a joke, but they love that, that I can dedicate so much time to them, a lot of times people are, they’re texting or calling me even on WhatsApp, because they’re coming from another country. And I’m able to, you know, talk to them at crazy hours. So I think depending on what your your niche is, you can really hone in on it. I just interviewed with another department at Yale and not gonna mention him by name. And the chief sent me a nice note the other day and said, you know, we’d like to take you on as, as our realtor, if you don’t mind, we’re interviewing, you don’t mind. We’re interviewing a few people next week, you know, that we’re going to have you take out terrific. So you know, it’s another department. So, again, it’s, no one’s paying me to do this. So you don’t get paid until you’re sitting at a closing. And I think that goes back to that drive of waking up unemployed every day. You know, we don’t make a dime till you’re sitting at a closing. And don’t forget that. If the deal doesn’t end, when you write the contract, and it gets accepted. There’s so much more to it. You. You want to be able to give somebody PD, my kid fell out of a tree today. Oh, you know, we’re new in the area. We don’t know anybody. You know, do you have a pediatric pediatric ortho you can give us? Sure. You know, that’s what you want. You want that you want to be that person that they come to for the name of a restaurant, anything. So I think that that’s really important that just don’t let the deal and after you write the contract, yeah,

D.J. Paris 53:40
yeah, it’s so you, boy, you said you said a lot. Just there and a lot of really, really great stuff. I could not agree with you more, I think it’s super imperative that people think about, you know, the kind of relationships they want to have with their clients and to think well, what do I have to do to earn that relationship? What do I have to do to earn somebody saying something like, oh, this person cares about me and my realtor likes actually is is invested, you know, in my happiness, like, if they can say that, they’re gonna sing your names, the, you know, they’re gonna sing it from the mountaintops, to everyone else. The other thing too, is, you know, thinking about niches and you were talking about working with physicians, is you probably just by being around them, you’ve studied kind of what physicians are like, what their needs are, you know, obviously every everybody’s different, but they have commonality, I’m sure there’s certainly needs and you have just been a student of, of, you know, whatever departments you’ve worked in to where I suspect you’re almost thinking you almost think of yourself almost as an employee even if some of these you know other depart Let’s,

Susan Santoro 55:00
and some of the doctors that do come in think I am, you know, and they think I’m working for the hospital or the university. And, you know, sometimes I have to, if I if comes off, you know, explain that I’m not. And you know, here’s how I got, here’s how you got to me. But you know, it’s again, it’s just relationship building and caring, caring, caring. So I’m today, in fact, I’m just as I’m talking to you, I just got a, an alert just popped up on my computer, a client who I sold a house to three years ago, in the military, and was given my name from another realtor who follows me online, sold them a house, you know, not too far from here, they’ve been doing a lot of work to the house, they reached out to me, do you have a plumber or an electrician? So they sent me a note last week and said, you know, we’d love to have you over to show you what we’ve done to the house. And most realtors to be like, if they’re not selling, you know, I’m not gonna go over. And it is going to take up an hour and a half of my time today. And they my alarm just went off just reminding me that that’s where I’m going today at four o’clock. So you know, yes, it’s, it’s 45 minutes there, it’s 45 minutes back, I’ll probably sit there and visit with them for an hour and a half. Okay, but three hours of time, if their neighbor decides to sell their house, who’s going to be on the top of their head? Yeah. So you’ve got to just take the time to do stuff like that. And I’m excited to see what they’ve done to the house. And I really, truly do care. But

D.J. Paris 56:36
that’s, that’s the whole point is that you are happy to it’s not always easy to drive 45 minutes each way. It’s not easy, but you’re excited to do it. And it’s what ultimately demonstrates care and compassion. And I I’m in this I’m a professional, and I want to see this all the way through. Susan, this has been such a such a fun episode, you have given our audience an incredible amount of strategies and techniques and tips. And you know, from your 39 years in the business, is just incredible. Your motor is still revved up and ready to go every morning. I’m going to I’m going to I’m going to adopt the I am unemployed every morning idea. I love that. I think that is it’s not not to depress somebody not to make somebody feel no. But to have a bit of urgency, a bit of like, what am I going to do today? Where am I going to go? Who am I going to talk to right? And

Susan Santoro 57:37
you have to create you have to create your own interview, right? Create your own job interview every day, and get and also are you going to get up and, you know, brush your hair. If you’re going to go out and interview Yes, then don’t walk out of your house without doing that. So, you know, just always be ready to sell yourself. Because everyone out there is interested in real estate everybody. I don’t care who it is, whether it’s they’re making money or they want to be an investor. They want to ask you questions, so be ready and look your best.

D.J. Paris 58:08
Love it. Well, for every thing, Susan, please follow her on Instagram as Susan Santoro underscore REALTOR at Instagram. She also has a website at William Pitt Sotheby’s International Realty we’ll post a link to that because Susan is just outside of New York City. She has a lot of people that are you know, moving in moving out. She works you know with with universities there so if anyone out there has clients that may be moving in or out and wants to network Susan with you what’s the best way they should reach out to you?

Susan Santoro 58:46
They can reach out to me they’re on social media. You said that you know the Instagram. Also this isn’t Santoro team is on both Instagram and Facebook. My email Susan Santoro 11 at gmail 11 is my lucky number. So Susan Santoro [email protected]. My phone number is all out there, they can Google me and they’re gonna find out everything about me. But yeah, I do a lot of a huge referral network and I’m always looking for agents in different areas and I love keeping in touch with them. And eventually I’m going to probably have eight or nine referral checks that will be coming in soon of referrals I’ve given in all different states. And again, a comes from I was talking to a physician that I went to on an appointment and he mentioned to me that his mother is going to be putting her condo up for sale in Florida. Really okay on the East Coast. Oh great. Where and we just start talking again. It was just conversation. I have a great realtor there. Oh, I didn’t necessarily have a great Realtor in his mother’s town. But I have enough of a network that I can go to and say, who’s the best in that town. And then I called that doctor that night on he gave me his personal cell phone number, called him that night, gave him this, this person already spoke to that agent. I have a chat coming in now. So you know, use every opportunity out there to talk about real estate. So I think I’ve probably given away all of my secrets now, but, but again, I love to teach. And I’m happy for anyone to reach out to me with any questions.

D.J. Paris 1:00:31
Well, Susan, you have been super generous to us on the show. We, we thank you on behalf of the audience, thank you for your time today and, and good luck at your, your your 45 minutes each way. Plus our our meet with with your your clients there. And just on behalf of everyone. Thank you. And on behalf of Susan and myself, we want to thank the audience for making it to the end of the episode. We just ask that everybody do two quick things. One, tell a friend think of one other realtor that is struggling right now that could use a little boost maybe a few fresh ideas to help them finish this year strong. Send them a link to this episode, we would appreciate it. And also leave us a review. Tell us what you think of the show. Let us know what you like and what we could do to improve this show is for you, and we want to continually make it better. So tell us what to do. Everyone go follow Susan on Instagram, Susan Santoro, underscore realtor link to that in the show notes as well as her website. Susan is a class act and is just an amazing, amazing realtor. Please reach out to her learn from her. And hopefully everybody can you know start to have more success in the way that Susan does, which is a lot about being professional, knowing your your data and staying in touch and caring about people it’s it’s really it’s just a lot of hard work. It’s what it is. It’s

Susan Santoro 1:01:59
a lot of hard work. You know that little thing on my desk that you know the old Chinese proverb you know, fall down seven times, but stand up eight. Keep going. Don’t give up. It’s a great career. Just it’s a lot of work.

D.J. Paris 1:02:12
It reminds me of that old Zen saying which says Before enlightenment chop wood carry water after enlightenment chop wood carry water.

Susan Santoro 1:02:23
Just keep going doing it right. Absolutely. We’ll see every great. Thank you so much.

D.J. Paris 1:02:28
Thank you so much, Susan. We will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks, Susan.

Cathy LaMon with The LaMon Team talks about her experience in real estate and how she switched from working in IBM to building her business in real estate. Cathy discusses the importance of having great communication with clients and the role phone calls and voicemails play in that regard. Last, Cathy discusses how important it is for new agents to not stop learning and trying to find what path best suits them in this business.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Cathy LaMon can be reached at (404) 805-2273 and [email protected].

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
survey show that the number one quality that buyers and sellers want in an agent is great communication. Today we’re going to show you how to do that. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solutions so that you can easily generate more business. There agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide and host through the show, by the way, we just celebrated the only reason I know this is LinkedIn told me, but we just celebrated our sixth year doing this podcast. So I just wanted to say thank you to everyone listening right now. And of course everyone that has ever listened to our show, we have millions of downloads 10s of 1000s of regular listeners and we could not be more grateful to all of you. When I started this six years ago, I had like three listeners and they were you know my family. So I am glad that it has spread beyond that and we are about to be speaking with Kathy Limon top producer. But before we get to Kathy please help us continue to grow let’s go another six years, but I want to reach twice as many agents as we have. There’s 1.5 million realtors out there not all of them know about this show. So please help us out let it let other agents know about the show. Everybody wants to learn from top producers. So let’s let them know that this exists and it’s free. And also please support our sponsors. They are paying the bills and we love our sponsors so please check them out, buy their products and services and tell other people about them as well. Alright guys, let’s get to the main event happy sixth birthday to all of us and our birthday, I guess anniversary whatever. Happy six to all of us listening and let’s get to the main event, my conversation with Kathy Lamont.

Today on the show we have Kathleen Lemond with Keller Williams in Atlanta. And let me tell you more about Kathy. Now Kathy Lemond began selling real estate in 1992. After leaving the corporate world of IBM sales, where they were offering incentives to downsize their workforce. Kathy took advantage of that and joined a locally owned brokerage with about 500 agents and set to learn all that she could by attending trainings and conferences all over the country. In 2001. She was given the opportunity to invest in a new Keller Williams office in Buckhead where she has been ever since. And she has a small team consisting of herself, her husband, and a full time licensed Operations Manager. And their goal this year is to help 42 families build a life they love. And her average price point is about $750,000. And she works her and her team work predominantly by referral. I want everybody to visit Cathy’s website because not only is she our guest than we should always support our guests but she has a really beautiful looking website, Lemond team.com, L A m o n team.com. You can also find links to all of her social channels there. We will post links to that in our show notes as well. But Lemond team.com is where you go to learn about Kathy and her team. Kathy, welcome to the show.

Cathy Lamon 4:39
Thank you DJ and glad to be here.

D.J. Paris 4:41
Thanks. We’re glad you’re here at well as well. i It’s funny when you were I was when we were thinking about your bio and I actually was in Buckhead in 2001 with Anheuser Busch. I was they were having their conference in Atlanta and they had rented out a good a number of the bucks. had bars for this conference. The conference was at the CNN Center, or I don’t know what it’s technically called. But over there downtown, and then in Buckhead was they had all these fun nighttime activities. And then I went back and visited Buckhead, men probably, I don’t know, five or six years later, and it had really blossomed. And even now it’s obviously blossomed even further. But what a fun area to have an office you picked a great location

Cathy Lamon 5:27
is fun, fun things to do a lot of good restaurants, great people. And never a dull moment in Buckhead.

D.J. Paris 5:37
Lots of fun to be had. And it is really a fun place to visit. So if you haven’t, if you ever ever been to Atlanta, go to the world of coke, and go visit but

Cathy Lamon 5:48
yeah, I think it’s called World of coke. Yeah, it is. It is. There’s a beautiful Georgia Aquarium right next door to that. So it’s a great place to bring families and good place to visit.

D.J. Paris 6:01
Yeah, well, I love Atlanta. So Kathy, I would, you know, I understand you were in really the IT world. You were in sales before when you were at IBM. And and I understand you had an opportunity to take a nice exit package and then decide to switch to careers. Why did you decide to switch careers to real estate?

Cathy Lamon 6:19
Well, at the time, I had little kids and thought, oh, real estate, you know, you can kind of set your own hours do your own thing. I’ll try real estate. Well, anybody that’s in the business knows that, yes, you’re very flexible, unless you have a client and especially an out of town client, and then your time is their time. But it did work out well to just be able to pick up my daughter’s a little bit more often. And just give me the opportunity to be a mom a little bit more often. So it was it was a good move. And I, you know, I loved IBM, it was a great place to learn, it was a great place to start my career I came I went with them right out of college. And what I’ve realized about real estate is there’s even so much more growth opportunity, both personally in terms of training and growth opportunities there, as well as income, IBM kept me, I was on commission. But if you sold too much too early in the year, they would just raise your quota and you’d be back making the same money. So it was it was very tightly controlled and real estate in the US people say the sky’s the limit, and there is no ceiling and no floor. But it’s a great business.

D.J. Paris 7:44
It is. And I also to want to put this in perspective, because when you started the world, I mean, obviously the world changes every year. But it really has changed since when you started you were pre internet. So we’re talking 1992. I mean, technically the internet was sort of around but not Yeah, certainly wasn’t adopted by the by the public. And I remember I went to college in 1994. And that was the first time that we started seeing web browsers, and the ability to sort of and it still wasn’t widely used. So you were I’m guessing we were on the phone a lot with people who did not grow up pre 1994. They don’t know how to use the phone, they don’t use the phone today, they don’t communicate that way with their friends, I still think the phone is a really great way to communicate with people. And it’s kind of a bit of a lost art now. But I do think that and even though people may not be as accustomed to being on the phone as they once were, I think we have this yearning to actually interact of voice to voice. Obviously, we could do FaceTime. And there’s ways to do voice and picture at the same time. But I imagine you probably still pick up the phone quite a bit is that is that

Cathy Lamon 8:58
I do. As a matter of fact, I’d set a goal to make 10 calls every day. And a lot of those end up being voicemail and you know, there’s always this question, Should I leave a voicemail? Should I not and I just choose to leave the voicemail. I think if someone does take the time, it’s nice for them to hear my voice and maybe it’s a little more personal. I also I use text a lot too, though, you know? Yeah, there is

D.J. Paris 9:27
something to be said about a phone call. And that’s also one of the nice things about being on the phone these days is you are going to get a lot of voicemails because, you know, you get to choose now who you want to speak to and, and it’s it’s really I think made the phone a lot easier to use as because you’re like, well I’m probably gonna get a voicemail and then you get to leave the lovely message and my thought and Kathy, I know you’re right. It’s like are they even going to hear the message? I think most people listen. I don’t know. I mean, I’d be curious to see stats on this because maybe I be wrong, but I Oh, it depends on the age range, I think, yeah, well, if you’re listening to our podcast, you’re a realtor, you should be listening to your voicemails because there may be some business in there. But I understand the idea of like, God, am I just wasting my time leaving voicemails? I don’t think so. Because, for example, Kathy, if you called me on my birthday, to wish me a happy birthday, for example, you just came up in your CRM, I probably wouldn’t answer the phone, not because I don’t like you. But because it’s my birthday. And I probably don’t want to answer the phone. But maybe the next day or later on that day, when I go back to listen, I would I would very much go. That was sweet of her. That was Yeah. So for those that are like, Ooh, I’m a little nervous talking, most people aren’t going to pick up but you can still leave them a nice, thoughtful message.

Cathy Lamon 10:43
Well, what I realized to DJ is, when I do get people, I find out things that otherwise I would never have found out, you know, somebody has been sick in their family, or they’ve just gotten some kind of news. It’s, it’s amazing. And, you know, that’s one call, maybe out of 20. But if I hadn’t made the call, I would never know. So I’m always like, Oh, I’m so glad I made that call today.

D.J. Paris 11:11
Well, it’s true, too. Because a lot of times, you know, we think Well, how else do we get our news about people in our lives? While we might look on social media, and you know, when things are maybe not going well, for a family, or they’re going through some sort of, you know, difficult time, maybe they’re not posting about that on Facebook, some people do, a lot of people don’t. And so you might not know, unless you picked up the phone and reached out. So let’s talk about how you did get started. Free Internet, right, like you still had to go out and prospect. And obviously, you know, we’re talking about a long time ago, but I think, you know, a lot of the ways in which you probably prospected or built your business, then still are applicable today. Because I think fundamentals typically don’t change. So I’m just curious, you know, back in, in the early 90s, when you were starting this new career, how did you grow your business, where you didn’t have a background of being in real estate?

Cathy Lamon 12:05
Well, that’s one of the first things I did when I got into the business. Even before I got in, I had an IBM discount to buy a laptop, and I bought a laptop, and I loaded everybody that I knew into a database. So just you know, that’s the bare fundamentals. And that has not changed today. If people that’s how you get started as you build a database, so I did that, you know, we, we had computers that would access. So I, when I started, I called expired, listings for sale by owners, those were out on a computer, you had to go to the office to get it, you know, to key it in, and you could see the listings that are coming up, but you had to go into the office to do it. So that that is very different. But a lot of it was the same same old, same old, get on the phone and call those expireds. I eventually got to the point where I decided that really wasn’t what I wanted to where I wanted to live. And that expired for sale by owner world. So I ended up doing much more of a referral based business once I got a little traction going.

D.J. Paris 13:14
Yeah, I have. But I think even though you’re like oh, the expireds and for sale by owners aren’t for me. And I think most agents probably have a similar experience with for sale by owners, you have to be a special kind of personality, I think to be able to withstand some of the difficulties of calling expireds. And, and for sale by owners. They are tough calls, or they can be tough for us. But certainly the Kinder are students and kinder I’m sorry, the gentler approach is the working by referral, made, you know, famous, made famous by a lot of people. But in the real estate industry, Brian Buffini is sort of associated with working by referral live the easy life is one of his slogans. I know you’re a fan of Buffini systems, I am as well. And you’ve not just worked with the Feeny and his company, but other other systems too. But how important was it because I know you really dove into this, probably I’m guessing, getting the training at IBM where training is so important. And there’s such a white glove firm, that you probably sort of thought I gotta I gotta get my knowledge up. And so talk about going to conferences and the importance of that for you in those early days.

Cathy Lamon 14:29
In the company that I was with had good basic training, in terms of you know, when you’re getting started, and what’s the contract and what do you need to know. But for anything more advanced, I found I had to travel somewhere and learn and that suited my personality. So well. I I’m very learning based. I love learning new things. I think if if I didn’t if I stop learning in this business, I would not want to do it anymore. But even after all these years, I feel like I learned something new every day. A but I would go to conferences I went to there was a guy named Howard Britton that assembled all these top agents from all over the country and I went to that I went to the Feeny I went to some other trainers as well, just learning and trying to figure out what fit me and what felt right. And then my style now is a mixture of a lot of different trainers that I’ve heard over the years, my core is Buffini that just working by referral, that’s the core and I still love that system. And, you know, you can add on top of that, add the videos add add all the fun things, but at the core, it really needs to be in my opinion, it needs to be about a relationship. And digging deeper and going deeper with with people serving them at its deeper level as we can.

D.J. Paris 15:56
I could not agree with you more. I apologize our internet, it may be a little choppy. So if anyone’s if I’m chopping anyone, I apologize, but I absolutely agree with you, Kathy. You know, I was thinking about Brian Buffini, when what I liked about what I liked about Brian Buffini is he came up the idea basically it and there’s a lot of different principles of his teachings. But I’ve always loved the idea of sending an item he calls them item items of value, right. And he he says basically, you know, you really should be giving your your prospects or clients something of value, every single month, or whatever the time commitment is or the duration is. But it’s really important because you really always want to be sort of giving people things where they’re like that was thoughtful, that was helpful that that really is something information or something I can use. And he was a little bit ahead of the curve on that because now we know that like social media is all about providing content use, you know, it’s all about sorry, all about providing value through content. And like, you know, if we expect people to watch our videos on Facebook or Tik Tok, or wherever they may be, they better be pretty, at least nothing else entertaining. But better than that, hopefully providing some actual information that people can use. And Buffini was was one of the first people I saw a sales trainer that was like, this is the way to people’s hearts. Obviously, there’s more to it than just that. But I have always been a huge fan of that. I’m curious to get your thoughts on the items of value.

Cathy Lamon 17:29
Yeah, I mean, I think now most of us have transitioned into more of an email and or, as you pointed out social media, video messages. He still provides monthly mailers, things you can mail out. Yeah. So you know, that can be layered. It’s a bunch of layering. I think, you know, you never know what, what works for certain people. So

D.J. Paris 17:58
will you have built a referral based business and everyone now, I shouldn’t say everyone, I would say most agents I have spoken to during my career in this industry, about 13 or 14 years. Almost everyone I meet says they want a referral based business. So that is obviously a common goal for a lot of agents. How long did it take you to do that? And what were some of the ways in which you began to transition away from making the cold calls to how do I get other people to market for me?

Cathy Lamon 18:31
Again, I think it goes back to building relationships. When someone knows and trusts another person they are, if they have an opportunity, they will, you’ll be the one that they recommend to their friends. So I think it it it’s nothing magic about it. It’s just getting in front of people. To this day, we still do a lot of lunches. I have lunch with someone almost every day of the week. Coffees, just you know, just being in relationship with people. And when

D.J. Paris 19:05
let me drill down on that. I apologize. Kathy, this is real. This is really great. Because having lunch every day with somebody is something that all the hundreds of episodes I’ve done, I think you may be the first to talk about that specific, specific sort of strategy. And can you talk a little bit about who you choose to take to lunch what you talk about, because this this would be super helpful to our audience. Yeah,

Cathy Lamon 19:27
yeah. So I would say those that falls into two camps number one is past clients or prospects somebody that I’m working with or or have worked with so that that is one whole group that’s a pretty easy group because what do you talk about? You talk about their life, their their families, you know, the old Ford Family, Occupation, Recreation and dreams, you know, it’s all about getting to know them better. So that’s, that’s one bucket. The other bucket is trusted advisors. and this has been a focus of mine over the last few years to try to get to know more estate attorneys, more Wealth Advisors, CPAs divorce attorneys, so those people have the opportunity to refer multiple people. So to the extent that I can build a relationship there, the the opportunity is just much greater than, than an individual who might have a friend who needs to buy or sell real estate. So I really do a lot of both. The Trusted Advisor is a really fun thing to do, once you kind of get your feet wet with it, and they, they get my same marketing that I’m sent to everybody else. At first, I was like, Okay, I’ve got to send something just for them. And yeah, just for them, that’s real, you know, that’s real professional or real business. Not fun. But they like fun things too. So I kind of had to get over that. Next, it’s just too much work to do two different things. When I meet with them, I may bring something more professional, some statistics or questions for them on on their business. But the basic, the basic marketing is the same. So that’s been fun, I’m actually getting ready to start something I’m really excited about, I’m starting a group of women, who are what I would call trusted advisors. And I’m hoping we’re having our first meeting coming up. But I’m hoping to meet once a quarter with this group, and really build strong bonds. There’s a there’s a financial advisor, there’s a high end insurance broker, a state attorney, CPA, so there, it’s I think it has a lot of potential and recommend anybody could do that. Whether it’s women or men, or both.

D.J. Paris 22:00
Those are all amazing professions to consider to add to to your professional, you know, sort of services or professional network, I should say, because you’re absolutely right. Those are people that are oftentimes dealing with life events, which typically may result in a transition of home, people moving in people moving out selling buying. divorce attorneys are the most obvious example of that. And but you know, you’re right estate planning attorneys, as you mentioned,

Cathy Lamon 22:30
some of my best business in the last year has been from estate attorneys. So

D.J. Paris 22:34
such a smart idea and oftentimes a overlooked specialty for realtors, we think divorce, divorce, divorce, yes, and estate planning attorneys as well, because of course, those are and you know, you could also too, I think possibly, there’s just a weird idea that maybe isn’t a good one. But people who work in mergers and acquisitions as well may, if it’s they work locally, they may be having companies that are moving in moving out. So there’s maybe some opportunities there as well. But I agree that having that professional network is awesome, because you can basically share clients and refer and say, I’ve got a great estate planning attorney. And by the way, everybody needs a great estate planning attorney. It’s a really important thing. You know, and and when somebody’s going through a family change, having a good divorce attorney, obviously is important as well, and a good accountant and all of these things. So Kathy is so this is such a great point. I’m sort of sticking on it for a moment because I really wanted to sink in. Kathy, thank you for that. I really everyone out there. Yes. Have lunch with your clients and your prospects. And yes, yes, yes, always do that. And let’s add in some professional people where you can actually help their business. And I think the best way to have those conversations is say, Hey, I would like to learn more about your business, Mr. or Mrs. Estate Planning Attorney. What can I do I have clients, here’s what my clients are like, here’s what they do. Would they be of benefit to you? What can I provide to you first, and then hopefully, it becomes a reciprocal scenario. Exactly.

Cathy Lamon 24:08
Yep. Yep.

D.J. Paris 24:09
What else? What else did you do too? So we talked, we talked about sort of this networking, staying in touch with your sphere, taking them out, seeing them face to face, also doing the same creating this networking group that you have, and also just these trusted advisors. What I want to ask because we talk about this a lot and I know this isn’t there isn’t a probably a really easy answer for this. So I’m going to give you a little bit of a tougher question only just to see what you might answer because we talk about in real estate we hear this phrase a lot people who know like and trust us are the ones most likely to work with us. This is working by referral know like and trust. We hear that over and over again. But I also think that I believe that trust is earned. So I’m curious on Yes, you have to earn the know like and trust part. How are you cuz you obviously do earn it and you have earned it. What do you do during when you’re working with a client that would eventually get them to say, not just, you know, hey, I had a good transaction to closed, etc. But I really, really like Kathy, I really felt she did a good job for me. I imagine you have certain standards in your business that lead to the know, like and trust, I’m guessing.

Cathy Lamon 25:24
Yes, I know that we do. And we’re always working on trying to improve that. I mean, it’s boiled to me, a lot of it just is so basic, it’s communication,

D.J. Paris 25:36
and pick up the phone when it rings.

Cathy Lamon 25:38
Yeah, it’s being in touch, it’s making sure that the client needs are answered. And my husband and I work together, he works with buyers and I work with sellers and I do most of the lead generation, he is incredible about being patient. And spending, I hear him spending hours and hours on the phone with people explaining things in the inspection or explaining, you know, the appraisal issues or you know, whatever it is, it’s that taking the time with them. And he’s, honestly, he’s much more patient than I am. So he’s in a good role. But I think that that’s what people need. And it’s not, it’s not necessarily the first time buyers, some of the high end buyers need just as much as anybody else. So I think that that’s part of it, just taking time and building building that trust and doing what you say you’re going to do I have a great assistant who is there in the she ever dropped the ball, do I ever drop the ball, of course, occasionally, but for the most part, we do what we say we’re going to do. And then we love to stay in touch with people afterwards, too. And I think that’s really a lot of times where you build referrals is you know, it’s not just one and done. And you know, you’re you’re on to the next you’re, you’re calling them and checking on them and making sure we we, we love to stay in touch with people on an ongoing basis. I always say, you know, once you get in our web, you can’t get out

D.J. Paris 27:19
until you until you say stop. Exactly, exactly. And nobody probably ever does that. Because I never has. Yeah, of course, of course, if you don’t, it’s really important to you said something very profound now, which again, it’s back to a fundamental of in between the sales, what are we doing in between sales to stay in touch with that client, because they’re probably not moving for another, I don’t know, seven years, five, seven years, whatever. You’re more and, and but we want to make sure that when they are ready, and we won’t know when that is necessarily we want to make sure we’re top of mind. And so this idea of reaching out in between is is really it’s I think it’s a lot simpler than people make it because it could be as easy as somebody bought a home from you call them a month in Hey, how did the move and go How was everything you’re good? Any problems? Just want to be Call me if you have any, if you need anything, I’ve got a network of people I can connect you to it really that could be almost the call every year if nothing else you want to talk about is how’s the home? How’s everything going? What’s going on with the family? Everything good? It just, it could just be a check in really? And really Yep. I used to I remember I this is I’ll make this story very short. I will tell you this sounds really silly. But it made me feel very special. When I was in high school, I had a friend who had an older brother who went to MIT for college. He was like the genius of all of our friends. He was anyway, so he went to MIT and he says, Oh, I’m taking a class by Dr. Amar or Amir Bose the guy who created Bose sound. So Bose speakers, and he said, If you want to buy any Bose speakers, we get a discount. So anyway, because he was in the class, so I bought some speakers through my friend and whatever cheap speakers I mean, great speakers, but inexpensive. It wasn’t like a big purchase couple 100 bucks, whatever. And every year after that for five years, Bose would call me once a year and say just checking in, how are the speakers performing? And I was like, it blew my mind. Amazing doing it. Amazing right now I’m sure probably because it was purchased through his class. Maybe I got put in a special category of like, make sure to take care of these people. But it sounds silly, but it really made me feel important. I don’t I have never met another company that does that. And that was 1993 Maybe so so anyway, it’s this point back to call. Yeah. Lying about the house, all you have to do is contact how’s everything going? What’s going somewhat simple, but But you said I’m so okay. So in between sales. We want to stay in touch. When you’re working with a client when you’re in a transit Action, let’s say nothing’s happening. You get no activity on a listing, let’s just say as an example, no new interest, let’s say a week goes by, what are you doing? Are you doing anything to talk to the seller to say, Okay, here’s what’s happening, or, or what is your philosophy around that?

Cathy Lamon 30:18
DJ, that is the worst. That is the worst time when nothing’s happening in Atlanta, the market has been so good that we haven’t, we’re still not experiencing that. But I believe me, I’ve been through that I’m sure lived through it lived through the recession. So you know, I think that in normal times be before too many days go by, you’re getting a message from the market, the market, I always say the market will talk back, if we’re not getting showings, if we’re not getting offers interest, then the market is telling something telling us something. So I think just planting the seed obvious, maybe this isn’t obvious, but it goes without saying that, okay, here’s what I have been doing. You know, what, here’s where your listing has been, how many hits you’ve had on the website, etc. So a report to them. But then I think even after a week, we start planting the seeds for pricing, a pricing adjustment, unless it’s just like the recession or something like that. I think that normally, if a house isn’t getting any activity, it’s that’s that’s the message we need to be getting to the client. That makes sense.

D.J. Paris 31:38
It does it makes perfect sense. And are I know that there can be some call reluctance, or reluctance to pick up the phone? When nothing is happening? Even, you know, a few days, maybe we’re nothing’s happening. What are you doing to keep the buyer or seller informed, even when there’s not much to report? Because I know a lot of agents don’t maybe aren’t as proactive when things aren’t happening. I once asked a top producer here in Chicago. So silly, but I said, Why do you think she’s number two in all of Chicago? And I said, Why do you think out of 40,000 agents, you’re number two, and she goes, I call my clients every week and tell them what’s going on? I said, well, and she goes, that’s that’s kind of it. She goes DJ, you’d be surprised very few agents do that. Really.

Cathy Lamon 32:30
And I would not claim to be perfect at that by any means. But again, just picking up the phone and touching base. And even even when things are happening, I think that people just want to hear from you. I listed a new house yesterday. And you know, we’ve got some showings lined up and I plan to just touch bases with them and say, you know, they’re out of town actually. So they don’t know precisely what’s going on. But just to just to say you know, we’ve we’ve had these showings this first one said they weren’t interested but we know we’ve got some more lined up for the weekend. Just Just stop communication and honestly, I’m not always the best at it. But it’s a goal to to be more in communication and I think people appreciate it they they never mind when they when you’ve got their house on the market or a house for them under contract. I don’t think you can call them too often. I don’t think you can over overdo it. Or they’ll

D.J. Paris 33:29
let you know if you’re overdoing it odds are you’re probably not going to say stop communicating with me about this transaction.

Cathy Lamon 33:37
And so that brings up a point that you know, the best thing to start off with is to ask how you want to be communicated with I want to see you want to have a phone call Do you want me to text you do you want me to email you? So then the person who says I want you to call me they’re not gonna mind if you’re calling so we need to we need to continue to do that we kind of come in with sometimes we kind of forget on that but

D.J. Paris 34:04
you know what I love about top producers is they say these really profound things but to them it’s like like

that question said something incredibly important, which was ask your clients how do you prefer to be communicated? Would you like a phone call? Would you rather have a text you know, is it okay if I leave a voicemail you know, what, what are the hours you want me to call you? When do you not want me to bother you? These

important of the just this is what she knows, but a lot of agents don’t know this. So remember the problem. There’s the golden rule, which is the way you want to be treated. The Platinum Rule is like others how they want to be treated. That’s, you have to ask questions to get that. So Kathy, again, seems like a small thing you said maybe to you, but really, really profound. Don’t just assume everyone communicates in the same manner because they don’t. What? What are we doing to celebrate our What are you in your? Oh, I’m sorry, I wanted to mention this other thing you said that was really, really important because Kathy, is very self aware. She said at the beginning, you know, there’s certain things I’m not as strong at, which is why her husband spills in those, those challenges. So she talked to Kathy had mentioned, she maybe isn’t the most patient person with, and that’s not a negative, that’s just part of your personality, you’re good at some things and other things you’re you’re weaker at and maybe patients isn’t always something that you can just learn to be more patient. So a Kathy says, instead of just well, I’m going to fight against this and do it, I’m gonna get somebody who’s really, really good at that, because it is important that I have somebody that’s super patient, and she has her husband step in. So what is the lesson from this? Well, we know that teams are on the rise. And look, the truth is, you just can’t do everything, you just can’t, you’re not going to be good at everything. So I love the fact that you have I mean, your husband, Great Good Thing that his his skill set is different than yours. Because you guys can then complement each other and you go, Oh, you know, this person is gonna need some patients, you know, husband, you take care of this one, and, and it works works really well. And then that client gets everything they want.

Cathy Lamon 36:33
Right? And we intentionally when he joined me in the business a few years ago, and I never wanted there to be a situation where we would be like, Oh, you said you were going to call them? No, you said you were going to call them and nobody’s called them. So we have a very, very clear definition. Bob works with buyers, I work with the sellers. And occasionally we still are talking about our clients. And we know what’s going on. And occasionally, we’ll we’ll be involved in in the other side. But for the most part, it’s very well done, delineated. And that has worked very well for us. And I’m fortunate that he loves doing the bonfire. Not everybody does.

D.J. Paris 37:20
Well, and typically people who who are working agents that are working with buyers typically do need more patience, because those transactions tend to take longer. And obviously, there’s a lot more that can go wrong. On the buy side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it is it is great, though, that you do have somebody your husband, of course, in this case, that’s able to step in and and help out in that way. And make make it so that you don’t say, Well, I’m not really a buyer’s agent. No, I’ve my husband, he’s, he’s the buyer’s agent, and he’ll take awesome care of you. What, what are you do you do any client appreciation events? I’m curious if you’ve started doing that, or if you’re working on that, or if those in your business,

Cathy Lamon 38:03
we love parties. My husband says that we are a an event company posing as a real estate company.

D.J. Paris 38:15
You know, it’s funny, I asked that question. I was like, I hope she’s doing client appreciation, right? She’s gonna be like, Yeah, we we don’t do that. Because I had no knowledge. I’m like, I she has to do this. And so I’m so glad. We love it.

Cathy Lamon 38:25
We love it. And we do all kinds of things. We We love having dinner parties, we love having six people around the table and just breaking bread. That’s really where you get to know people and and we like mixing people up that don’t know each other. And sometimes we’ll have people that know each other. So we do all kinds of things. We’ll do some medium sized parties where maybe we’ll have 20 people over for drinks or something. And then a few times a year, we have a big event. We’re planning right now, a big pizza party. We have a person that a company that comes with this big wood, wood fired grill and they grill the pizzas. They’re delicious. We’ll have wine and beer. This year. I’ve got a gelato company coming to serve gelato, and we have a DJ and it’s all in our driveway. So it’s we’re praying for good weather, but um, it’s, it’s lots of fun. We’ve done a few we’ve done it several times before and it’s always a fun party. So that’s one of our biggest parties. We will probably have 200 people here altogether and my husband doesn’t know that yet. So don’t tell him but you know, we do pies. We do a pie party at Thanksgiving and we’ve done movie parties. We’ve done a little bit of everything. We love to travel and when we get back from a trip say to France for example, we will last year we had a French wine and cheese party so you know some things like that,

D.J. Paris 40:01
that’s a great idea. So you go on a trip, and I wasn’t sure where you’re going with that. So that’s amazing. You go on a trip, you know, you experience the culture of another country, and then you bring that culture back with you. That is, I have never heard of anyone doing that. That is a very,

Cathy Lamon 40:16
it’s very fun. Yeah. Oh my

D.J. Paris 40:18
gosh, brilliant. What a great, what a great. I always love these. It’s always I’ve been doing this for five or six years. Anytime I hear something new. And I know it’s not new. It’s not like you’re the first person to ever do that. I just have never heard of it. And so it’s new to me. And I love it. So that it’s a lot about activity, right? It’s it’s just like you were saying, I make 10 phone calls every day. I bet most Realtors don’t even do that. And I’m not here to criticize everyone. I’m just here to challenge people to realize this is what top producers do they pick up the phone or some version of that. Are you? Are you doing a lot on social media? Or is that something that you know, you’re not as connected to?

Cathy Lamon 41:00
So almost two years ago, I hired a marketing gal who was helping me and she is guiding me. She does, she actually does most of the posts. I’ll do I’ll do some myself just personal ones, but she’s doing the business ones. And I originally came to you through camera Berg. And Kim is helping me with video trying to get me we’re going to work on messaging this fall and really trying to create messages that resonate. And that going back to your original point of value. It’s not just about nothing, it’s about something that hopefully will, no message is going to appeal to everyone all the time that if we can just make it something that’s, that’s interesting and informative to a number of people. I think I’m really excited about that to try to kind of take it to the next level.

D.J. Paris 42:02
I also think too, and by the way, I plug for Kim Rydberg she has a her own series on our podcast. We love Kim. She’s our social media expert. And I didn’t realize that you were you came through by way of her so I am so excited because Kim is one of my favorite people I think I’ve just about ever met. So I am I just absolutely adore her and I encourage everyone to listen to her series on our show. Just look for Kim’s Kim’s episodes, she is a real gem. And it Yeah, you’re talking about value I think because I know there’s this. A lot of us in this industry have a perfectionist mindset. We want our headshots to look perfect or we want our by the way, I’m going to divert from my what I was saying I was just a zillo conference of the last two days I showing time, which is owned by basically by Zillow. I was at a conference for them, I was fortunate enough to get to go. And they said they showed a statistic that is so interesting speaking of headshots, and it just came to me I totally forgot. This is amazing. And I wish I could show people this, although it’s a podcast, so wouldn’t most people wouldn’t be able to see it anyway. But they showed some data that suggests that headshots are done. Nobody wants to see headshots anymore what they want to see as a still a professional photo. But what they actually want to see is you being captured, doing something that you enjoy something that is a passion for you, whether it’s real estate, maybe you play guitar, or maybe you’re into whatever, maybe you just want to you know, you’re a great mom or whatever you’re into. They actually people they had data to support this. They said, Nobody wants to see the perfect airbrushed photo anymore. They want to see you in action, which makes sense because we follow people on social media and we see them doing what they do. So for anyone out there who’s thinking about getting a new headshot, guess get a new headshot, obviously get that and get some shots of you doing other things. And people actually find that to be more inviting and more real and more authentic. So just a little little plug from something I learned from from Zillow last couple days but Kathy, sorry to

Cathy Lamon 44:14
interrupt you’re really interesting. Really interesting. Yeah.

D.J. Paris 44:18
Oh, here’s another one real quick. Sorry, just because it’s coming to me use white linens if you can, on your listing presentations for the master bedroom or I’m sorry for the primary bedroom. Use white linens if possible because Zillow has found that by using a white like a do they are white you know comforter 30% more clicks versus a colored different color than white. I mean, crazy weird thing. So if I was an agent, I might just buy like a king size comforter, keep it in my trunk. So anyway, okay, back to Kathy. I’m so sorry. I just I got

Cathy Lamon 44:57
I got loaded up with ideas, your ideas

D.J. Paris 44:59
I think well, I need to learn from you because you’re you’re really, so much further along the path. And I’m Kathy, what? Let’s talk about boundaries. In the sense of, you know, we know that mother’s parents know this as well as Realtors know this, if we don’t set some sort of boundaries for our, you know, for our people in our lives, especially if we have children, they may challenge those boundaries. Clients can do the same thing. How do you handle a 10 o’clock? And then that not everyone? Do you set certain expectations for your clients so that they know what to expect? If they reach out at like an odd hour?

Cathy Lamon 45:45
I wouldn’t say that I typically say okay, you can call me for between eight and six. I don’t have that. I know agents have some agents have that on their voicemail and all that. But honestly, I usually got to bed around 10. And I’m not answering the phone after that. Yeah. You know, and but I do think that it it’s for me and my husband, it’s it’s more event or situation driven. I answered the phone last night because I just got a contract worked out at like eight o’clock. And the guy had a question. So I answered the phone at quarter of 10. And my now my husband has been up to midnight with people going, you know, when there’s a deadline on inspection or something like that. So we I wouldn’t say we have any hard and fast. Okay, these are our business hours. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with doing that. We’re at a point in life when we don’t have any kids at home. So it really takes the pressure off of sure of that. And we are working on no phones at the dinner. You know, that kind of thing. That’s that’s sort of basic but

D.J. Paris 46:56
but if if a message comes in late at night that you don’t want to handle you’ve been a realtor for a very long time. Can we tell the rest of our audience that in most cases, it can wait, it can wait till the morning?

Cathy Lamon 47:12
Yeah. Oh, yeah. There’s nothing wrong with voicemail. You get it tomorrow?

D.J. Paris 47:16
That’s absolutely right. And the problem with text messages is there’s no end to a text message conversation, right? Yes. Phone calls have a start. And yeah, text messages haven’t started. They don’t happen yet. Yeah.

Cathy Lamon 47:27
That’s a very good point. I never thought about that. But yeah, if you start it, unless you say, I’m sorry, I’m going to bed no, no night.

D.J. Paris 47:36
Yes. Which by the way, is it absolutely reasonable thing if the person is expecting some sort of response, you can just say, Oh, I’m I’m headed to bed first thing in the morning, I got it or whatever. What who can who can you know, argue with that? Um, Kevin, we should also mention, too, that, you know, our show is an a show for agents by agents listened to by agents as well. So you know, we also want to promote referrals. And we know that Kathy works in downtown Atlanta. She is in the nearby surrounding suburbs as well. But Atlanta is a hotbed for people moving in and out. Lots of big companies are there. And if anyone does have people moving into Atlanta, in particular, the metro area and the close suburbs, you know, Kathy is a great resource. So Kathy, if there are agents out there that either maybe want to connect with you, because you might have people that are moving from Atlanta, like Florida, or wherever they may be retiring to. Yep. So what’s the best way if somebody wants to connect with you that they can reach out?

Cathy Lamon 48:38
My website is just simple Lemond team.com, Li Mo n dot, hope sorry, la mo n team.com. I’m Cathy at Lemond teen.com on. I’m on Facebook, Insta, all those all those good places. And I think you said you’re gonna put it in the show notes to say, Well,

D.J. Paris 48:58
absolutely. But we I really, you know, Kathy, it’s funny. I was just sort of reflecting on what we’ve talked about today. And there are lots of great tips here that Kathy provided. So on behalf of our audience, I mean, really, this was a chock full episode of actionable strategies by somebody who’s been in real estate for over 30 years now. Congratulations, by the way, they do the math right on that. Yes. Yeah. That is That is impressive. And not and Kathy has seen oh, by the way, Kathy, you’ve been through some ups and downs. Last question. Are, are we worried right now about the market at all? Are we worried about interest rates? Or are we like we’ve seen this before, it’s going to be fine.

Cathy Lamon 49:41
We are going to be fine. And as you’ve pointed out, I’m a big follower of Brian Buffini. He is very optimistic about what’s going to happen with the rates and the market. His message right now is to focus on listings we need to be listing listing listing and learn You know, if you don’t have listings, go to a class and learn how to do them better. So just invest in yourself, invest in your people. And really, he says, we’re going to have a great 2024. So good things ahead.

D.J. Paris 50:16
And for anyone out there who’s like, how do I get more listings? There’s a million ways to do it. But one way that I think would be particularly applicable today is and Kathy can tell me if I’m not wrong, because I might be, but Well, I’m definitely not. But I’m also I may be wrong. That’s for sure. I’m definitely crazy. But, you know, people are always interested to know what their home value is, right? This is why Zillow became Zillow. It was the Zestimate it wasn’t the home search, it was actually the Zestimate. And this estimate then gave birth really to their home search. So you know, people, whether what, whatever we think of the Zestimate people like to see the Zestimate, whatever, however accurate we think it is or not, this is a great opportunity to take a lesson from Zillow playbook and maybe reach out to people who, whether they were your client or not. Hey, I thought I would show you what I believe your home is approximately worth right now. Would you be interested in seeing that? I mean, I would always be interested in seeing that. So I don’t know if you do CMAs for your clients. I’m sure

Cathy Lamon 51:20
I did one yesterday, as a matter of fact, yes.

D.J. Paris 51:23
And by the way, as much as I love, I think Silla is a great company. And I like so a lot of agents do not I understand and respect that as well. But if I’m looking for an actual CMA, I don’t, I don’t use best I use estimate as like a starting point, like, okay, that’s what Zillow thinks, but I want somebody like Kathy showing me exactly what she thinks after 30 years of business because she knows the market better than, you know, an algorithm likely could. So um, this is a great opportunity guys to exercise your your experience, and you know, show people hey, this is what I think right now. Great opportunity there. But on behalf of our audience for all the great tips and advice that Kathy provided, we say thank you to Kathy and her her, her team and her husband’s not on the call. But we we say thank you to him as well, for some of the tips that you mentioned that he has. And on behalf of Kathy and myself, we’d be remiss if we didn’t say thanks to the audience. Thanks for listening. Thanks for making me to be Thank you. And thanks for making it to the end of the episode we just asked everybody do two quick things for us. I know it’s a lot to ask. But just tell one thing, tell a friend. Think of one other realtor that could benefit. This is a great episode, send it to people that are struggling right now. agents that are like, What do I do? It’s a tough, yes, send this to them. They’ll get some great ideas. And also, please leave us a review. Wherever you’re listening to this podcast. Let us know what you think of the show. Construct constructive criticism is always important to us. We write we do this episodes, we do the show for you. So please let us know how we can improve it and also what you like as well. Kathy, thank you so much. We are so honored to have you. You’re a big deal. And you didn’t have time to do this. And you found time. So thank you, everyone. Yes, thank you. Oh, well thank you visit Lemond team.com L A m o n team.com Links to all of Cathy’s websites and email and social media in the show notes reach out to us she’s a lovely things she has wisdom guys learn from people who have been in the business 30 years. That’s the one thing they have that new agents just don’t they don’t have wisdom yet you don’t have it. That’s something that comes with time and people like Kathy, I don’t want to make you sound like you’re older Cathy that is not what I’m saying. I don’t think you’re older. But just being in the business this long is really a treasure and it’s no surprise that Cathy’s a top producer.

Cathy Lamon 53:40
So most people in this business love to share so absolutely reach out with questions I’d be happy to to have a dialogue.

D.J. Paris 53:49
Awesome. Lemond team.com is where you learn all things Kathy and her team. Kathy, thank you and we will see everybody on the next episode. Thank you, DJ

Welcome to Breaking Down Ali’s Systems mini-series with Ali Garced.

In this mini-series Ali will be explaining how she built her systems both for buyers and for sellers. In the first episode, Ali describes how she breaks apart her process working with buyers into 6 different segments.

Please follow Ali on Instagram here.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Ali Garced can be reached at [email protected] and (914) 318-4918.

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
Hello and welcome to a very special episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris. I am your guide and host through the show. Why Is today a special episode? Well, in just a moment, I’m going to be turning it over to Ali gar said Ally’s actually been on our show, actually recently. And she had such a great reaction from our listeners and fans, that we asked her to come back to do a couple of special episodes for just for you guys. And so today, she is going to be going step by step through her buyer checklist. And this is probably the best buyer checklist presentation I have ever seen. So guys, this is a literally step by step instruction to help level up your buyer checklist process. So without further ado, and by the way, we’re going to do more of these from some of our guests like Ali, please let us know if you want more of this because I think this is really really cool stuff. So I hope you guys enjoy it. Let us know your feedback. And now let’s turn it over to my friend Ali gar said also follow her on Instagram, Ali, the agent, its ally underscore the underscore agent. So we’ll have a link to that in the show notes. But let’s turn it over to ally. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and now on to our show

Ali Garced 2:40
Hey everyone, it’s Aligarh set again or ally the agents on all social media that spelled a Li and I am back with my first segment of the buyer checklist. I promised DJ that I would share everything in my checklist. So originally, you know the checklists were the buyer’s checklists, the seller checklist, the investor checklists, the onboarding checklist. Originally everything was for my just for my downline, but I really want to I really hope that this helps just better the industry altogether. So I am giving away my buyer checklists, my seller checklists, my 200 Step onboarding checklist for agents, no matter what level or like level they’re at is still just for my downline, but I am giving away my homebuyer checklist and my seller one so this is part one of maybe two or three for the buyer side. We’ll see how it goes. And then I’m also going to have a two part buyer or two part for the seller checklists. So I am on Trello. And I am going to be walking through how I have everything set up on Trello. If you want to follow along, watch this on YouTube because I am sharing my screen. And if you can’t, that’s okay, I’m going to make it I’m going to vocalize as much as I can. So in that way, it’s as if you are following along. So I’ll start with what is even Trello right Trello is a free project management system. You could use your CRM, but I started using Trello because it was free. And I kind of just stuck with that. So I’m going to show you and vocalize how I have this laid out. Starting from the very left side, I have a whole section for sellers and then a whole section for buyers and then a section for referrals as well. And what I do for those in my downline is I give them access straight to this Trello checklist they can copy and paste it but for those that are outside of my downline, I will be sending you a link to it. So that way you can have access to but not the full access that I have given that I’ve poured my heart and soul into for my downline specifically. So on the left hand side here I have it I have sellers and buyers broken into three different columns. So one is like far out sellers and I’m calling like see sellers be sellers is you know, three to six months out, again to make sure that you’re hitting everyone on that specific tempo, then I have the third column is a seller’s getting ready to list, you know, you need to go on an appointment today and meet with them. Then I have one week before going live. The next column is once they are live on the market. The next column is once they’re under contract. Because again, as you start getting more and more, you know, properties under contract and working with more buyers and sellers to scale, you’re gonna get overwhelmed. So you need to have this organization in the beginning. So as if you’ve never used Trello, you can like drag and drop little cards. So you can you know, as soon as someone’s under contract, and then they’re they’re out a week out from closing, just drag and drop the card. Now, you know the numbers change for how many are about a week out from closing. Then the next column is the size of for sellers, then on the buyer side, which I will be focusing on today is how I work through my buyers. So again, see buyers about a year out but be buyers about six months out ish. And then a buyers, hot buyers or hot leads talk to them today. Then, of course under contract has its own column one week out from closing, once they’re closed for 2023, or whatever year we’re in, when you’re listening to this, then an archived one close but in the past, you know, before are further out than a year ago, if that makes sense. And then I also have a dead lead column as well. And then I go into the referrals. I have everything consolidated onto this Trello board. Again, this was for this is for the downline so they can just see how I organize things, I will show you mine, he is crazy. It has the same exact thing. But in order to make this as clear and easy for you to follow along. And for the agents to follow along. In my crew, I made it as simple as possible. So this is a template. So let’s start. Let’s open up this Trello checklist. And in the beginning here is the source. That’s the first thing you need to be tracking is who is giving you business where’s your business coming from because that is what you want to replicate double down on, you know if it’s all coming from Zillow, then double down on Zillow, if it’s all coming from a couple people that you know that consistently give you business, you show them some love, give them some gifts. And, and say thank you. So you need to know you need to track X I’m such a huge proponent of tracking everything, a track where your leads are coming from. So then, of course, I have like just the typical questions of of what you’re going to be asking what you need to know once you’re starting to work with the buyer. I have some attachments here, they might not apply to everyone because this is a buyer broker specifically for our area. critical dates list. Of course, this might not apply to you, but that’s okay. You can include your own attachments. And then buyer initiation. This is the first portion of the checklist. So I have my checklists, sorted into different segments and segments. So when we first start talking to a buyer, first thing is add them to your calendar, add them to your CRM. So that way, you know to follow up at what tempo what are the notes of what you previous previously said. The second for the second portion here is take the intake from the Calendly. And this is what I used to have as buyer email number one. For my buyers, I have buyer emails one through six, it’s canned, it’s template, it’s evergreen. So I just copy and paste all I do is just change this who the recipient is for, but I used to have this as buyer email number one. Now what I do is I send all buyers to my Calendly Calendly is a paid service. It’s about $160 a year, I highly recommend you sign up for it in case you haven’t already. But and if you want to follow along there too, with whether you’re looking at the screen or not. I you can go on mine and copy the exact questions that I have. It’s open to the public. So if you go on calendly.com/guard said Realty that’s spelled G AR C Ed Realty slash buyer will see exactly what my buyers are filling out before they meet with me. So I’ll show you here. Go as if you’re going to be booking an appointment. I’m getting their name, email number, I have a next up is the box that says you know, will you be selling another home before during this this next purchase? Yes or No? If yes, what’s that address what the zip code of the home you’ll be selling? Because when we meet at the time that they scheduled for, I’ll be asking if they want are a realtor in that area to help them sell their home before they purchase with us? What’s the reason that you’re buying and selling? Then I also have I also ask, what are the top three must haves? Very important, as you all know, what are the top three wants? What are the top three deal breakers? And the catch all? Is there anything else that you’d like me to know to be better prepared for our meeting? So this they might come out with something out of left field better that they put it in this Calendly now before your appointment with them, instead of you know, on the fly, where you might not know the answer, and you could have researched it beforehand. And this last section is for them to send text messages for calendaring to send text to the whoever’s booking the call. What this is only portion one, right I’m not, I’m not going to go into Calendly. Today, although I can on a on a next meeting, if you guys wish. But in the back end of Calendly, I also go into the work flows tab, because I want to make sure that I’m not going to be stood up. So I have the automatic email and texts sent out to the buyers or sent out to anyone who books with me saying thanks for you know, confirming you know we’re on for XYZ you scheduled this, this specific type of meeting. And then I also have a 24 hour out meeting in case they book out more than a day out. And then I also have the hour before it sends them a text it sends them an email saying hey, we look forward to seeing you in one hour for the home buying consultation. So let’s go back to my Trello checklist. That is what I have all the buyers fill out this is what used to be in my buyer email number one, so I will not be covering Berryman number one because instead now I have Calendly save so much time.

So you take the information of what they put in the buyer appointment, and you start looking you know, you already start thinking about what kind of homes are looking at, who’s going to be in the meeting, etc. So then going down this checklist here, ask the buyers before going under contract with them. This is while you’re meeting with them over zoom, and I meet with everyone over zoom. Because a lot of my a lot of my meat and potatoes clients are actually out of state. So because I do have a military background. So a lot of them our PCs thing is what they call moving in the military. So but then I got used to that. And I figured that that was such a better time spent, even if they are local in the area. Nobody wants to drive to an office, nobody want this was a power move, I think. So save the time for them. And for you meet over zoom. And that is where you go over a couple of questions, even more questions, because Calendly only allows 10 questions. So that’s where you ask them? How often do you expect to hear from me? What how can I be the best agent for you? And a lot of agents have issues with that question because it kind of like shifts the power dynamics, if they if you want to call it that. But don’t forget that not only are they interviewing you as an agent, you are interviewing them as clients do not work with someone that doesn’t make you feel good. You know, there’s so much business to be had, especially now that so many realtors are leaving the business, scoop up the rest of the business. Don’t Don’t be afraid to say no, because they’re every single client that you take on, I’m probably preaching to the choir here. But every single client that you take on, that you don’t feel good about, you know, you have like that. Like those bad butterflies in your stomach, whenever they call you or text you that is a sure sign that you are not meant to be working together. And that is okay, let them go. Because all the time that you’re spending with them is time that you could be spending with other clients that make you feel good. So anyway, then also ask them what’s the best method of communication? Of course, because some people only like phone calls. Of course, as you guys know, I don’t, I don’t like phone calls. But if they do, guess what I’m doing phone calls, text, email, whatever it is, what I like about Trello is I can add these notes to the very, very top. So as your Trello board gets busier as you’re adding other clients here you can easily you know, see, say Emma buyer in this city, this type of property, text or call, so that way you don’t have to remember who does MLA tax. Let me look at that calendar and let me see that email that came in. No, it says right there, Emma likes text messages. Then add them to your CRM over here. I have KB core and I love KB core. I didn’t in the beginning but wow. Like I really really like I only know about 30% of what it handles and I’m actually testing this out too. So if if you want a copy of this checklist and you haven’t already reached out to me on on social media, text the word checklist to Oh 520-341-2552 more than happy to send it to you. Then of course, you want to contact the lender or connect them to a lender, I usually do like a group chat with the lender, then of course, set them up on a search. Next on the Trello checklist is check in three days after setting them up on the search. And this is I also have setup on my CRM. So as I add each client into the CRM, in Cavey, core specifically, and I’m sure others do the same thing. I add tasks. So in three days from when we met, I’m going to add a task to notify me to reach out to the client saying, Hey, did you like everything on the on the search? Is there anything I could switch super easy for us to do? So just let us know want to make sure we’re not sending you trash? So then, here, as you can tell, next step is I had to send buyer emails one and two. Now, of course, by email number one no longer exists. So let me know let me change that right here. Send Email number two. Let me show you email. Number two, what does buyer email number two have? Ally? Well, let me show you. I use superhuman, it’s a way to do a lot of shortcuts. But you can do the same thing. With just saving this as a template on either Gmail or Outlook, whatever you use, but templated emails, do not be copying, or do not be writing the same email over and over again, that’s not a way to scale. And you want to be able to scale I imagine if you’re listening to this. So right here in two seconds, I pulled up buyer email number two. And it’s the title is we’re excited to work with you. Because what buyer email number two is, is the confirmation that you and I are working together exclusively, you’re not going to be using another realtor. So therefore, buyer email number two is very important for me, because this is the mean potatoes, everything I poured my heart and soul into this email, and to everything really that I do checklists, everything. And this has this is the way ahead, I show them the eggs, I show them everything of what buying a home is like in this market. So I started off with a video this video is evergreen, it’s not specific to I don’t say any names. I don’t say any specific information because I want this video to be evergreen and used for every single buyer email number two, in this in this video, you’ll see that I actually all I do is go over all of the words in the email. Because if buyers are to get an email like this, nobody likes reading anymore. So even if you make a video of you reading what you are sending them, they will watch that better, you know, they will watch that they will feel better. Instead of giving them homework, hey, read this whole long email. And you know that’s it. So I go over in this video what exactly I’m relaying to them in words of that email. Starting with number one what to do right now I give them homework, you know, buyers want to be told what to do, even even if they are investors that have you know, purchase multiple properties before they want to know think about it as a buyer. What is the next step? What do you want for me? What do I need to do? And what’s next? Always think about that, like what do they need to be hearing from me a lot of agents are too scared to add their to assigning them homework and I tell them straight up buyers, this is your homework. So what to do now is complete the buyer or open the complete buyer client PDF. This contains the entire step by step on how to purchase a property and boy does it you’ll see number two before I open an l open all the attachments at the end. Number two is message me if you’ve already had other agents show your properties we do not overstep or steal clients because if they have that if for some reason they really don’t like them, then I want to reach out to that agent and make sure because that agent might not even know and a lot of agents are too scared to do this. I don’t care. I do not steal clients. I tell everyone in my crew like we do we do. There’s so much shady madness that happens in this industry. Don’t make it worse. If you are working with another agent, excellent. Then work with that agent. We are going to focus our time on other clients that only want to work with us and I have no issue saying that and believe it or not at all. I’ve only ever lost to clients because of that and that’s okay. Number three is walkthrough, the purchase contract was which is attached. And with this video that I made for you this needs to be reviewed before we place offers. Number four is check your junk folder in case the listings that we send to you through the through our website through the MLS is sent to your junk. Number five is review the seven ways to make your offer stand out video. Number six review the buyer advisory on due diligence best practices and numbers Seven send us your pre approval or proof of funds, we cannot take the next steps without that. And then following us email here I have once again, whenever you have a property that you like, based off the emails that we send you please do the following. This is what you do. Once you find a property that you like, one, make sure it’s in a location where you’d like it to be, I cannot talk about you know, as as you know, realtors cannot talk about what area is safe. So instead, what we can do is give you the resources for you to figure that out on your own. So this is a list of schools, for you to do your research, if schools are important, is a spotcrime.com maps.google.com dropped a little yo guy walk the neighborhood virtually in case you’re not already there, make sure it’s within your pre approval amount, ensure your spouse or all other buying parties approved. And sure the numbers work for you. Let’s connect it with your lender. That’s why I do a group text with the lender. And if you’re serious about it enough to make an offer, and I tell this over the Zoom call with my buyers, if it’s a level seven or above out of 10, like 10, is you really want that property, if you want to make an offer on it, that’s when you send it to us, that’s when we start taking a look. So otherwise, there’s no point of seeing a house that you only halfway are interested in anything under seven, don’t send it then I told them that.

Then number six, I’ll look up all of the agent notes, I’ll send all the information to you any attachments that they have read it over. That’s number seven, and number eight, let’s get you in there ASAP. I tried to kill the deal before it even starts if you can’t tell, because there’s no point of seeing a house of contacting the listing agent. If the buyer is a VA loan, and they’re not even accepting VA loans. Of course, you’re going to ask Hey, was that was this a fluke? Was this a typo? But I tried to kill the deal before it starts, save your time save your sanity. Then as again, I reiterate it, there’s no point of driving to view a property that’s out of your budget and an area you don’t like. So make sure it is a hill. Yes. And the purpose of this video is to make sure is because I wish I had more information when I was a buyer. So I want to send you as much information as I can. Hopefully not talking too fast. Then, of course, in every single email that I have, I have a way ahead. This is what to expect next. That’s always what clients questions are, what to expect next. So next expect next by your email number three, which will be sent as we get closer to drafting your offer. I have 1234566 attachments in this buyer email number two, that might sound like a lot. But again, I’d rather I’d rather send them all the information now. So that way they have it and they can review at their own leisure as opposed to later on when they’re rushed. Let’s start with the beefiest one buyer client PDF. Now, as you can tell, if you’re following along here, this took a lot of work. I did not make this PDF, I hired somebody to do it because I am not digitally creative like this. But it’s in in pretty in prettier format. You know, there’s colors on here, it’s a little photo of me what I’m about that I used to be the military i inverse, these are some podcasts that I’ve been on in case you want to just learn a little bit more about me. Then I have another video on page two, page three of just a welcome introduction. This is me, I’m excited to work with you. Page four is what you can expect what the buyer can expect from me. Communication guidance, local knowledge, market expertise. Number five, page five is what I could expect from them submit a prequel, you know, before viewing properties, we cannot do that until I have your pre qual. And it’s you know up to date, that I also expect that they drive the neighborhood if they’re in a local area. Before we view that property that on the inside, I expect that they see the property on the outside. A lot of people might think oh, you know, you’re you’re telling the buyer to do too much. Trust me. I’ve only ever gotten positive feedback about this, like, oh, wow, no one’s ever told me to do that. That’s a good idea. It is. It’s a great idea. I got that from my dad, because I’m an investor as well. So I want to know what’s going on at 11pm on a Friday. And I tell them hey if you want to go extra credit if you go at at midnight on a Saturday night to see if you’re actually comfortable in that area that you’re interested in. So of course you can follow you can win if you text me again, the key word is going to be text training for a copy of everything here 25203412552 So following along general information, my work hours, this is how you know we’re going to be communicating then the real process starts where I have video after video three videos per page on talking them through the whole buying process, buyer client expectations home buying process. But what it’s like to buy a mark to buy a house in this market shopping for a lender. It’s exactly what I do when I shop for a lender Purchase Contract Overview and what is the specific market well Right now, then four steps that buyers forget to make when placing offers. And guess what, guess where I thought of these four steps, my own personal mistakes, so don’t make the mistakes I was making. So make sure that that your buyers see this seven ways to make your offer stand out. Now I should probably be up late update this one because this last one had the love letters which I do not do anymore do not recommend. And then under contract, I’m under contract. Now what? That’s always a question, right. And then at the bottom, you know, follow me on my socials. I’m telling the buyers these I’m not telling you this, although you can if you want to it’s ally, the agents. So that’s the BPS attachment. Next is the word doc, which I think my computer might freeze if I open so but what I have here is the what you can expect from me. Now what do I have here, it’s a video that is already on the buyer client PDF, that PDF has everything in a video series of what the buyer needs to make, to make an offer and to work with me. So the what you can expect from me attachment. The second attachment is exactly what I have already mentioned previously, it’s just been a Word doc, so they can follow along my work hours, you know, this is what I expect. Then the other two attachments are specific to this local area, it’s the purchase contract or in some states, I offered a purchase. But whatever the purchase contract is in your area, I attach that I attach them via email number two, but really, it’s their first email that they’re getting. So that way right off the bat, they see how formal it is. Then I also attach the additional clause in case they need to do anything outside of the original contract. So for example, waive the appraisal or anything like that. Then I also have the buyers roadmap, which is just a one pager color, you know, pretty looking thing. It’s a wheel that just walks the buyers through the purchase contract or through the whole home buying process. Then I have the buyer advisory my TC also sends this, but I would rather them my buyers have this immediately. So that way because this is lengthy, right? According to your to your MLS, this is going to be a pretty beefy one. And it helps out a lot common physical conditions in the property that a buyer should investigate. I want them to know that. And I don’t want them to only hear it from me and my videos, I want them to see, oh, this is you know, a statewide thing. Maybe I should get a sewer scope? Yes, you should. So that is that’s all the attachments that I have in via email number two, and I think I’m going to leave it here. So again, I there’s no way I can go through every single item on this just this first segment segment of my Trello checklist. But again, if you text training to 520341252 it takes you through every single thing. Now, I don’t have all scripts on here, but I have a couple of just questions to ask to not forget everyone in my exp downline, they have access to a lot more information than this. I have a two almost 200 page real estate Bible google doc which has everything that I know about real estate sales, and I mean everything, but that is exclusive to them. However, the most important portions, some of the most important portions of it is they’re all on the on the checklist that I’m sharing with you today. So if you’d like more you know what to do you know what to text. If you have any questions or I don’t know like want to schedule a one on one. I’m here for that. It’s calendly.com/garside Realty. I super hope this helps the next. The next training is going to be on the part two of working with a buyer will go over emails number three and four. Look forward to seeing you then. Bye

Welcome to the August episode of Learn with a Lender with Joel Schaub of Guaranteed Rate!

In this episode, Joel discusses why educating new agents in real estate business is crucial and how growing positivity will help them handle stress. Joel also talks about work ethics and the importance of having consistency, setting priorities and discipline and how they lead agents to good relationships with their clients.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Joel can be reached at [email protected] and 773.654.2049.

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
We’re approaching our 500th episode. And I just wanted to say that the number one characteristic that I’ve learned from all of the agents that we’ve had on our show of top producers has been consistency. We’re going to dive into that today. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Welcome to keeping it real, the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Harris, I am your guide and host through the show today once again is our monthly series called Learn with a lender with Joel shop from guaranteed rate. Now Joel is the vice president of lending at guaranteed rate. He’s been doing loans at a high level since 2003. He’s got to that level because of what he does specifically for agents, which is he gives back part of his commission to the buyer on every transaction. In fact, last year alone, Joe gave back over $300,000 in closing costs to buyers who worked with him and that puts Joe’s volume in the top 1/10 of 1% of all lenders nationwide. In fact, there’s actually 400,000 loan officers in this in the United States. And Joel is currently ranked number 137. Now this year alone, he’s closed. Oh my gosh, I just screwed something up. Joel. My numbers just got screwy. So could you please tell us your numbers? I apologize. My eye numbers are screwy

too. It’s crazy. I know.

Yeah, right now, I mean, we’re lucky enough to be just under $75 million close DJ for the year in purchase. And that’s 170 closed transactions year to date so far. Yeah, amazing.

That really is amazing. It is a tough year, a lot of our audiences probably, you know, feeling the challenges right now in the market. But what we do know is that consistency, hard work and discipline really pays off, it might just feel a little bit trickier today. But everything that people can do today is going to actually, you know, result in some bear some fruit here in the near future. So while it may feel I just want to address this because I run into a lot of realtors. So on my show, when this podcast when I talk to top producers, I’m speaking to the audience here for I just want to make a quick point that I hope resonates with everyone. So when I speak the top 1% producers, they get to where they’ve got by by tolerating market cycles, right? So they’ve been through UPS, they’ve been through downs, especially if they’ve been around, you know, since or the early 2000s. They’ve been through a few of these cycles. And they seem to understand the cycle. And so what I encourage anyone who hasn’t been through some of these cycles, and it’s feeling maybe a little tougher right now is, you know, seek refuge in some of these agents who have been around longer than you talk to them, ask them for the wisdom that they gained through these challenging times in the past, because they’ll give you all sorts of ideas of Oh, I wish I would have done this, you know, from 2008 to 2010, when the market was really, really struggling. And now you know, they’re able to do some of that today. And so if this is your first time going through a tricky market cycle, don’t don’t despair. It’s all part of part of the normal cycle of business. But we want to keep you motivated and encouraged to continue growing your business, which I know can be a little trickier. So Joel and I are going to focus on some things today that we really want to keep you engaged with your business even though you know right now, inventories low rates aren’t exactly where we want them to be. Yeah, that’s the rial Woody, and there’s things you can do to stay on top of it. So anyway, I apologize for that little rambling monologue there. But I did want to, I did want to make that point because we know it’s tough. And if you listen to my show, you know, we talked to these top one percenters. They’re like, everything’s great. This is so awesome. And it is great, because they’ve been through some of these hard times before, and they know how to navigate through them. So if you’re struggling, don’t you’re not alone. But we’re going to try to help you through that on this on this episode a little bit. And Joel has been around for a long, long time in this business. And he’s seen what top producers do throughout their time in practice to help you as well. So Joel, welcome once again to the show.

Well, I love that you’re talking about this. I love the tangent, you call it a rant. But I mean, it’s true. It’s really what we’re doing here is literally educating agents. Because if the negative news is all around, you surround yourself with positivity, I work with agents that right now can tell you what they would have done if they had all the time in the world, right? So if it’s, if it’s slow for you, right, think about what you could do to actually grow the business, right? Because these agents, if you’ve been around for years, we recall when we didn’t have any extra time on our hands. So if you’re sitting there saying, I have all the extra time on my hands, because I don’t have 20 deals closing a month, right? What do you do? Surround yourself, listen to these podcasts, right? Grow your database, right? Make sure that people know that you’re in the business. And so we’re gonna go through a lot of stuff today that will absolutely help you get even one more deal. Maybe it’s a new buyer, maybe it’s a new listing. But by tuning in, you’re really going to grow. So we applaud you for that.

I’m going to start with one that that I just heard, because I’ll forget in the next few seconds if I don’t say it now that I just heard from a former guest of of keeping it real. Also Joel, you know this person as well. He was a 30, under 30, National Association of realtor award winner, Jordan Pyle, he’s a local Chicago agent. He’s a, he’s a lovely, lovely guy. And I was talking to him recently, and he was telling me that one of the things he’s been doing with the extra time, as you mentioned, that he has now because he’s not closing 20 deals a month, is it in the sounds kind of it’s actually a really fun one, I think, at least it would be for me. And what he’s doing is he’s spending an hour every day. And that’s a lot of time. So if you have an hour, great if you don’t, you know, maybe you do a half an hour, and he literally is just replying to Facebook posts and Instagram posts for the people in his database. And he’s doing it in an authentic way. And what he’s doing is he’s looking at his his feed, I want to get really specific about this. He’s looking at his feed, when he sees a friend of his or somebody that is in his database, you know, goes on vacation, or maybe has some life event or just you know, goes out to a nice dinner and takes a picture of it. He comments on it. And he says it has to be authentic. He’s not just like, you know, it looks awesome. He he thinks about like a nice comment. He writes it and he goes, I want people to know that I care about their lives. And now I have time to demonstrate that through replying. And he goes, I do. I can’t remember if he does 30 or 50. I think it want to say he does 30 to 50 comments a day, and not not to the same people every day, of course. But and when I heard that, I said, What is that dude, he goes well, he goes, it generates a lot of goodwill. It generates a lot of people going wow, Jordan thought about me. And so that was my little suggestion.

Sure, it’s number one, we talk a lot on the show DJ about things that you can do that cost money. And the number one thing here, it’s not the number one thing, but this is one thing that you can do as an agent, if you stay consistent with it. So what is this rule? What is this, putting it into practice taking what Jordan Pyle did, and actually do it for yourself? Really, it costs no money, and your name consistently stays out there. And it’s not like you said, just that looks great. I did that for years, when I looked at listings, and I said, I really liked that color blue in the kitchen. That’s so amazing. Marcia, keep up the great work. And you just do this consistently. People know that you’re in the business, then you’re a realtor, right? If you’re listening to this, you could make sure that you’re out there doing the exact same thing. And how much does that cost? DJ?

Zero, it just costs time. All it costs us a little bit of time. And even if it doesn’t, even if it isn’t real estate related, what we’re talking about is building intimacy. We’re building relationships, you know, in the way that you build relationships beyond a sale is you care about somebody and what’s going on in their lives. And you show that you demonstrate that because I think intimacy has to be earned. And the way that you do that is by showing up.

Well, you’re exactly right. I mean, we kicked off the show talking about closing over 20 units a month, you know, different homes and I speak to agents daily that are saying I’d like to get to 20 closings in a year right. So if you’re doing 20 20 or 30 closings every single month? How do you have time to do any of this and you can kind of prioritize. So if you’re not at that level yet, and most people truly are, you do have extra time. And it’s all about what you set for your priorities. Right. So number one, that’s an easy thing to do. And the other one that I wanted to touch base on, of course, is making sure that you have a good database and adding people in refining it, and then doing small reach outs to everybody that’s there. If it’s a postcard, if it’s a pop by things that you can do, because this is still a people business DJ, right until the robots replace us, there’s still going to be somebody that needs to go out and show the homes. And they’re still going to need to be people on the lending, Attorney side title. So there’s real relationships that need to be built here. And it’s just getting back down to basics if you’re not extremely busy right now.

Yeah, this is the time to focus back on the fundamentals. When’s the last time that you’ve gone through and pruned? Not so much to remove people from your database? pruned isn’t the right word. When’s the last time you updated your database with information? Like, do you know your your? I won’t say clients necessarily, but but clients and prospects? Do you know their wedding anniversary? Why would you want to know that? Well, because then you can give them a call on their wedding anniversary every year and say, I’m thinking about you grats on year number 17. How many how many service providers are even thinking about that probably very few in there, that client’s life or that prospects life, you know that these are little things you can do that when you have time, you find out the soft parts of someone’s life that are tangentially related to business. You know, I think one of the one of the best ways another little suggestion, if you know where your clients work, or at least you have in your database of their employer, you can set up Google alerts for that employer for the news section. So what this would do is actually send you in real time when Google notices oh, let’s say you have a client who works at Boeing. And you know, some Boeing gets some major contract or something’s and that’s a big huge company. So maybe that’s not the best example. But but you get the ideas. Anytime you know, somebody’s employer is in the news, you then gives you another two, hey, just saw your your employer did this. Cool. Congratulations. Yeah,

I love that. That really is true. And one of the things that I’ve been doing for like three or four years now is setting up reminders for clients birthdays, and instead of a phone call or a text, I started doing videos years ago, okay, so I don’t know if you ever saw that website cameo, right? We’ve talked about this offline, right? And so you get celebrities to send a video on on your behalf, right? And so, who’s the bigger celebrity right now, if somebody is getting ready to buy a home Leonardo DiCaprio or you the realtor, you’re more important. Okay, maybe, maybe Leo or one of these top persons are but think about the power of you actually doing just a 15 second video, say happy birthday. And I make mine fun and silly. So I literally start yelling and screaming Happy Birthday and spinning around in the chair and just being real. Instead of being like, that’s just who I am. So I like to have fun with it. And I sing off key and I say it’s a very special birthday message from your favorite lender, Joel shop. And it gets such great replies. So do what’s authentic to you. If it’s heartfelt, do that. If it’s funny do that. But doing something that’s different. I tell you, there’s not a lot of people sending video messages to people on their birthday. And you just set it up every morning, I look at my phone. And I can do it right through Facebook to see how many birthdays are today. And it doesn’t take but more than a few seconds and I shoot the videos and send them out. And it’s a it’s been a big hit.

You know, these are the people skills we’re really talking about. I also wanted to touch on the actual hard skills, the hard realtor skills that I don’t say hard meaning difficult, but the important skills I you know, I had a call today, we have a holding company, which is for agents that aren’t actively practicing but want to keep their license active but they’re basically out of the business. They just have a license and are not practicing. And I got a call from one of our holding company agents today’s asking me to run a CMA for comparable market analysis for her particular property. And I said oh, okay, you know, and I she goes, Well, we’re just trying to figure out if we should sell it and I don’t she said I don’t really trust this estimate the Zillow Zestimate. So I wanted to get, you know, DJ, can you run me a CMA? And I said, Well, I’m not particularly good at it, but but I’ll do my best. And, and again, I think this is another huge opportunity for everyone who has a database of people that own homes, whether you are their realtor or not, when they purchased you have the ability to say, Hey, I was going to I’m practicing my CMAs or I’m just running you know, I do this for all for everyone in my database once or twice a year, whatever you however you want to market it and say hi, I was wondering if I You shouldn’t even ask you should just do it. Hey, I have a market analysis for you. I just wanted to give you an updated thing of what I think your home was worth whether you’re moving or not irrelevant. I just wanted to show this to you. Because most of my clients like to know what their home is worth, you know, every so often. That’s a huge opportunity. And it’s if you’re a skilled realtor, you can knock these out in probably 30 seconds or a minute each. So it’s not that they’re not that challenging to put together. But they are really helpful because I think every homeowner, whether they’re selling or buying, always likes to know what their homes worth.

And it sharpens your skill. So think of this. I love what you said there. But I’m going to take it one step further for agents that probably haven’t done a lot of CMAs. Who are they going to go do these for DJ, right? They don’t have a long database of people to do it for, you can still run CMAs for people that weren’t your clients that have bought with another agent, right? With values being upright now, it’s not good enough just to trust the Zestimate. And even if they’re not interested in selling, now you’ve given somebody something. So now taking that database, people that you know that know you doing some work for them. It’s not only going to keep you top of mind and when the time does come for them to sell. But it helps strengthen the skills that you’re going to need when somebody actually does need you. Right? Yes, I love it. I

agree. That’s, that’s, it’s, it’s excellent. And I also want to just to make one other suggestion. So if you haven’t, if our listeners haven’t yet fully embraced chat, GBT, don’t worry, whether it comes for our jobs or not as is up to the gods. But for now, it hasn’t totally taken over. But you can actually do some really fun things to keep you well actually, I’m going to give you a couple ideas here. First thing I want you to do this is not chat GBT, this is for for you that Joel, this is a Joel thing I want you to reach out to Joel and and subscribe to his newsletter which comes out in the middle of the week, usually. And it is for realtors to understand what’s going on in the lending world so that they can effectively you can effectively communicate with buyers and sellers about what’s going on without having to, you know, sit through hours long lectures about what’s going on in lending. So they sent out this newsletter, I want to do give a plug for that real quickly because it is so helpful. Guys, this gives you reasons to pick up the phone reasons to talk to people and it makes you sound intelligent, because of course it’s information that’s current and up to date, Joel, if somebody everybody should do this, just do it. Trust me, it’s going to be super helpful. What’s the best way that they should email you to get on your mailing list?

Well, I call my little nuggets, right. So it’s a weekly digestible newsletter that actually gives you talking points without sounding too smart or too dumb. That’s me. I’m like right down the middle. And that’s the way I like it. Right? Email, it’s so simple, literally, you could just send me an email saying please add me to your newsletter. And it’s Joel JOE [email protected] Ra t.com. And the subject line could simply be add me to your newsletter. And in the inside, please add me or thank you or I heard you on the show. One sentence, you’ll get added. And then every single week, you’ll get one or two things that you can absolutely use to grow your business, pick up another buyer help a seller in ways that is not so nuanced that you feel like I’m just reading paragraph after paragraph really good stuff.

So yes, everybody please send an email to [email protected] asked to be added to the newsletter, trust me, it will help you in your business when you’re communicating with with buyers and sellers, and you won’t have to seek this information out because Joel is gonna send it right to your inbox. So I was asked to be on a radio show recently. And they asked me to prepare some some information. And the back to this is back to our chat GBT thing. And so I this is for homebuyers and sellers. And so I thought, Oh, this will be interesting. So I went to chat GBT and I said give me five reasons why it is a perfect time to buy or sell a property here in Chicago because it was a Chicago radio. And then I said give me five reasons why it’s not a perfect time. And the reason why I wanted both sides is because I wanted to be able to understand both perspectives and I wanted to see the data for both perspectives. And and this is really, really an important thing to understand. I have learned from interviewing hundreds of top Realtors across the country, that one of their skills that is really a really difficult skill to to learn. But once you have it really puts you in an upper echelon is understanding all sides of an argument, especially around buying and selling this will help you in your negotiating, it will help you understand the motivations of sellers and buyers. So what I like to do is as chat GBT, now you have to make sure that you’re getting current data and chat GBT is not necessarily always accurate. So um, you do your own research too. But I love this and I was able to go into this radio station with pros for buying and cons just in case it came up where somebody says it’s not a good time to buy a home right now I could say, Okay, I understand sort of why they might think that. And then I was able to go to the other side and say, but here’s some reasons why it might be a good time. And vice versa. You can do this for yourself every single day, you could say, you know, give me some some data about why it’s a great time to buy a condo in my in my, you know, my market area, or it’s a bad time to buy kind of these are good good things to know. So that you can, you know, be seen as as really, really knowledgeable and you don’t have to search on Google and go through everything anymore. Chat, GBT is going to search on Google for you and bring you those stats.

Knowing both sides of it. It’s what makes me a great husband to think about this. Knowing both sides and understanding things right makes you a better partner makes you a better human. And But all joking aside, yes, you can always make an argument for either side, right? And so I tell people all the time, you’re not in the right position to buy, like with the last lender said, the last letter wanting to commission. Right? Everyone’s focused on number one, right? But if you actually step back and talk to a buyer and say, this actually right now isn’t the right time for you, we should actually do X, Y, and Z. Boy, do you help people boy to people come back to you, right. So it’s hard if you don’t have a lot of transactions, but it takes time, once you have so many people, you can actually just be real with them, right? And try to help them. So I love the idea of using the chat GPT to go through and just get more information I’ve been digging in, I’ve read two books on it now. And it is not as cumbersome as you think, Boy, it can really help you do things. So if you haven’t done it, dive right in the trial version, of course, is free, there is an upgraded version at $20 a month as well. But you don’t need to don’t pay any money go in test. And it’ll help you be a better agent, for sure.

You know, you just said something really profound. And I think the ultimate, the ultimate skill that I or rather, there’s not one, one of the ultimate skills that top Realtors seem to, you know, have in their arsenal. And I understand this is going to take time. But this is where having a mentor or having people you could ask who are in that upper echelon can be very helpful. This is around under gosh, I just lost I apologize. I just lost my train of thought. It’ll come to me in a second. But the idea is that, you know, once, boy, I completely forgot, Joel, I know you’re

talking about this offline. I know exactly what you’re going with here. So the idea of like working, refining the skill about how you can write the right offer, right, this is weird. Thank

you. So let’s just go through it right. If you’re an

agent, right now, it’s pretty true that the top 90% of agents are winning most deals right, like so the same 90% of people, which means so many people are not winning deals. So if you’re out there, and you’re submitting offers and not winning, believe me, a lot of people are but the same agents are winning, what are they doing? Right? So they’re writing offers that are designed to win. So I just wanted to walk through the three things that I think make the most sense, and this is what we were talking about before. So when you’re submitting an offer, just keep it simple, right? That’s the number one thing a seller is looking for. So you’re trying to determine what would you want if you were actually accepting the offer? So although we talk about rate by downs and escalation clauses, at the end of the day, simplicity wins. So it’s not always the highest offer? It’s, there’s two words there, right, DJ, its highest and best. Yep. Which one’s the best doesn’t have to be the highest offer, right? So learning ways, what worked before and don’t complicate it, right? So that’s one, working with the right inspector always ends up either helping your deal or killing your deal, right? We got to keep deals together, if we’re lucky enough to win and get under contract, having an inspector that spooking the buyer, right? There’s always going to be a problem with some homes, right? Put it this way, there’s probably going to be some problem with every home, it’s just can you work with somebody that can describe it correctly, because if you go under contract and the buyer cancels over a minor inspection issue, we’re back to square one, right? And then three, it seems self serving, but work with a good lender, right? Work with the right partner that actually knows how to make the process simple. So that the buyer can get clear to close as soon as possible, and go through those steps so that they can actually refer more business back. Ok. So submitting the right offer, working with the right inspector and having a good lender or two in your pocket that you can call on. Those are the things that keep deals on track right now.

Because when you’re submitting Aw, thank you, Joe. Those are great. Three great things. And I want to also say aesthetically, this is just an aesthetic issue. When you’re submitting an offer, make it super easy to read, put the important stuff in bold, make sure it’s so obvious that they can look at it and fives, I saw an offer letter yesterday, I don’t know why. Maybe I’m have a negative opinion of this. And it’s not actually a negative thing. But I saw an offer letter that was made to look like a certificate, and it was kind of cute, whatever. And it was like visually, it was kind of cool, because it looked like a little certificate, like they won some sort of award. Okay, but it was really hard to read. And I was like, Okay, I guess it’s cute and whatever. But like, I had a hard time even looking and understanding what it was. And I was like, Okay, points for making it cute. But points taken away. Because you’ve made it harder for me to actually see this, I see what you’re trying to do. And if you didn’t, you’ve probably seen a million things like this.

handwriting, I’m still against this. I mean, I see people scribbling in with a pencil, right? type these up, ladies and gentlemen, type up, type it up. Okay, if you’re not typing it up, then write legibly. I mean, you shouldn’t be writing in the year 2023. We shouldn’t be using a pencil to write a purchase contract, we shouldn’t actually be signing pretty soon, we’re gonna get past that with all the digital signatures. For now. The idea that you’re writing these offers, and there’s missing blanks and you don’t have it complete, and you’re writing and pen or pencil. I know I’m gonna offend a lot of people here who are old school and they write but I bet you they have better penmanship than half of these doctors that are writing these up. It’s like the old saying that you can’t even read the prescription notes, right? So just simple things. If you if you don’t have good handwriting, let’s let’s start typing. Okay, can we get on the bandwagon like that?

The last thing I wanted to mention, yes, and absolutely. The last thing I want to mention is about having an opinion, I think this is one of the most important skills that that top realtors have is they have opinions that they share with their clients, a lot of realtors are afraid to share an opinion because they might think I don’t want to I don’t want to quell the deal. I don’t want I don’t want the deal to fall apart, I’m just going to be Switzerland, I’m gonna stay on the fence, I’m going to just play nice, and let’s get this deal closed. And yes, that’s part of the job too. And I for me, I will pay extra for any service provider in my life that has an opinion that I value, I will pay a premium for that I will I would pay a premium to a realtor who’s like I charge 7% or 8%, or whatever the highest amount is because but here’s why I charge more. Because I actually know if this is a good idea for you or not, or I believe I know if it’s a good idea for you or not. Now that takes time it takes experience, it takes skill, it takes a lot to get to a place where you can actually say this is a good buy, this is not a good buy good sale, not a good sale. This is really what I think separates the wheat from the chaff right like this. These are the agents that are at the very top they’re willing to say, just like you were saying, Joel, this is not a good decision for you, Mr. or Mrs. buyer or seller, I am advising you against this, that is worth its weight in gold. Most realtors are I believe, are really not willing to do that. And so the ones that are willing to sort of say, based on my experience, my knowledge, here’s what I actually think you should or should not do. Really, I think those are the agents that all that are successful.

It’s all boils down to why are you different, right? We’re commoditized, right? Agents, lenders, etc. Right? So you gotta be different in the beginning. I’ll challenge you and say it’s hard to take a position, right? You want to cater to everybody. So if you’re listening, brand new, that’s scary. It really is. What if I offend somebody? I need that deal? Right? What if, you know, what if they’re on the wrong side of the aisle? What if it’s, you know, you try to do that, but until you know why you’re different. Okay, it is hard to do that. So why are you different? What can you do and refine it so that you know it? In the lending business? For years, I’ve been the guy who gives back part of my commission on every transaction. And that changes the conversation from Hi, what is your interest rate? To I’ve heard all about you. In rates across the board. Most banks to be frank are the same. It’s a gimmick thinking like one banks drastically different than the next right? There might be somebody that’s a few dollars higher or a few dollars lower an interest rate. But there’s not too many people that consistently are willing to give part of their commission back. So I described that in great detail. And when they’re interviewing three lenders, nobody’s talking about that. They’re just saying I can go get you the best rate. We’re the cheapest. It’s it’s not true, right? So I stand with confidence. And I say, over the last 17 years I’ve given back back hundreds and hundreds of 1000s of dollars a year to clients just like you, I’m going to get you the best rate I can. But I’m also going to do something a lot of other people won’t. And that’s how we win the business. Okay, so I challenge you as an agent to figure out what it is that you want to do, what are you doing that’s different? Or what would you like to do that’s different, and not be afraid to go out and say that on every single appointment? And it takes some time. But you’ll get there and it has to be authentic and from the heart.

Yeah, and so, you know, this is a great thing to think about as an agent is what are your clients consistently asking you for? And that’s a great place to start to think about, oh, how could I differentiate myself seems like my clients asked me a lot about certain topics or certain positions, this is where you can then start to build your knowledge base, and start learning more about X, Y, and Z so that you can, in fact, bring some of that to the table. You know, in Joe’s right, you know, the real reason why Joel is successful outside of all the great marketing, he does, to make sure that everyone knows about, you know, what he provides, is when it comes down to the actual work, Joel and his team are literally like the best I’ve ever worked with. So the reality of it is, is like, you have to be really super skilled. Because like Joe was saying, you know, yeah, there’s, there’s always going to be a realtor that charges a lower rate or a loan, a lending company that charges a lower interest rate, there’s always going to be lower cost providers out there. But if you can really have a good sense of like, know, when you work with me, we’re going to make this thing as smooth as we can. And that is worth a lot. That’s actually worth a lot of money, even though it’s not. It’s, it’s not it’s an invisible sort of savings. But it is a it’s a real savings. Because if you can get through a transaction smooth, it’s kind of like this. I haven’t I have a mechanic who I trust implicitly, I don’t go to another mechanic, I don’t get a second opinion. So he could be ripping me off. And I wouldn’t know, I trust that he’s not because he has demonstrated such incredible skill that I just go, I don’t have time to go and talk to other mechanics. And we can all relate to this. We all know how tricky it is we’re like, do we trust this mechanic or not? I finally found a guy. And I’m like, You know what, you’ve got my business. So if you if you’re, if you’re going to start ripping me off, I won’t even know. But I hope you don’t. And I’m sure he’s not. But my God, I love the fact that I don’t have to think about this anymore. And it just is. And I pay a premium for it, I’m sure. But it’s worth it.

Be that for your agents, right? If you’re an agent, right now you want to go out. And that’s how you’re building clientele. Right? Everything can be a race to the bottom, if you’re the cheapest person here, all that I realized years ago that I couldn’t control the market. I couldn’t control rates. But I could control how much I gave right? In the beginning, before I was at the level that I’m at now I gave my time. And I gave my knowledge and I gave my expertise later on. It took time to get the expertise, right. And so in the beginning, figure out what you can give, the more you give, the more you’re going to get. Okay, so if you can’t give back in terms of discounting your commission, right, because it’s just not works. Maybe not right now, if you can’t give back in terms of throwing large parties and spending money, right? Figure out what you can do to give back. Right? You can give back like we talked in wrap up here and go back to social media and make sure that you’re adding value in comments. Why do people make posts to read the comments? Right? Who’s seeing what I posted? We all are guilty of it? Right? Totally. So if you can put really poignant post comments down and people start seeing that you’re a genuine person, you’re just gonna grow your business right? So in in years past you couldn’t control the market you still can’t today but you can control how much you give and find ways that you can do things to give back you’re definitely going to grow

Yeah, the market is a lot like the weather it just is whatever it is, it is and we can we can have a feeling about the weather or the market and we can have that affect us and Okay, fine. And then we can also make additional choices to to move beyond what is uncontrollable, the weather the market. And so I think today, we just gave a tremendous number of opportunities for you to stay engaged, stay busy. And by the way, guys, another chat GBT suggestion if you just need to be motivated every day as chat GBT every morning. Can you motivate me today with with some you know, I don’t know. You could ask anybody to do anything. But start thinking about you know, if you need a little boost in your day as to LGBT for a little boost, like what can you tell me to get me motivated? I bet you had to come up with some pretty interesting ideas. But the point is, is you don’t have to do this alone. There’s lots of help out there. There’s podcasts like this. There’s people like Joel who will actually help you grow your real estate business as well. Oh, so this is another good opportunity. If you have extra time, maybe it’s a good time to evaluate your ello your loan officer and determine maybe there’s a better partnership out there for you. And Joel does partner with agents. So first thing, obviously get on his email marketing, or start his email newsletter, which comes out as nugget list every week, which specifically says, here’s what’s going on that Realtors need to know about how to communicate with lending rates and interest rates. You know, go to Joel Asare, send him an email [email protected]. And he will add you to that. But also, if you think that you would like to partner with Joel maybe doing some events, you know, just working together to get deals closed, Joel and his team are on your side. So reach out to him [email protected] and ask him for some partnership opportunities you guys possibly could work together as well. It’s a great time to start evaluating, you know, your your ancillary partners in real estate since you have extra time.

Yeah, DJ above and beyond the newsletter, I get people all the time saying I know you have a lender introduction template where you do waive the fees, I have a buyer that I want to refer to you How do I do that. And it’s the same thing, it’s [email protected]. And you can say, please send me your lender, introduction template email, and it’s already written out for you. So that you can introduce the buyer with the direct link to the online application, where when they complete it, they get a $1,500 closing cost credit. So now they’re working with a top lender in the United States where they’re actually not paying any underwriting fees. They’re not paying any appraisal not paying any points. And it’s gonna be a completely different setup for them compared to if they just call their bank, or the broker that they’re working with right now. So that’s an email [email protected] Send me the lender introduction template. And people always call to, they’re shocked to hear that I’m actually answering the phone, right. So it’s 773-744-1968. You can call if you get me live, it’s crazy the number of conversations, I’ve had DJ with agents all across the United States because of the show, and you’re just doing something really great here. So I love every single time I come on, and there’s a lot to be positive about guys, this is a really good reminder that the sky isn’t falling, there’s deals to be had stick with it. This is one of the defining years. If you can make it through this year, there’s greater sites ahead, okay, this is gonna be a big one. So stick with it.

Absolutely, the sky is not falling. And I’m not even seeing any indicators that that there is major tragedy ahead of us. Obviously, anything can happen. I can’t. It’s like the weather, anything can happen. But what we can control is our own effort. Reach out to Joel, he’s fantastic. His team is fantastic. He truly wants to help you. And, you know, just reach out to [email protected]. Also, everyone please tell a friend help our podcast grow by telling one other agent that you know about our show. We’re trying to keep agents engaged, interested and positively motivated throughout this. And by the way, guys, it’s not that bad right now it can feel that way. But it really isn’t historically, we are not in a terrible spot, but it can feel that way. But podcasts like this, we are trying to get you out of the doldrums into action. So tell you know there’s gotta be somebody you know, that’s a little bit bummed out who’s a realtor right now send them a link to this episode. Maybe this will kickstart them and have them help. You know, the real estate community at large. Let’s send them over to our website keeping it real pod.com Or they can just find us on any anywhere podcasts are served, keeping it real podcast, please hit that subscribe and like button and also, you know, support our sponsors too. We are so grateful to have sponsors. They’re the reason that we can continue to pay our staff and do these episodes. So please check out their products and services as well. Joel, thank you so much. Once again, you’ve been with me five plus years on the show since almost the very very beginning. And we are so grateful for your your contributions to the show on behalf of the audience. Thank you. On behalf of Joel and myself thank you to the audience reach out to Joel get on his newsletter [email protected] reach out to him for any partnership opportunities that you may be able to to do withdrawal oh and by the way, even if you’re not here in Chicago, Joel’s company guaranteed rate they are in every single state so reach out to Joel no matter where you are. Guaranteed Rate is the bomb. So Alright guys, thank you so much, Joel. Thank you. We will see everybody on the next episode.

Bob Brown is an author, speaker, patented innovator, and the foremost authority on foundation repair diagnosis who shares his experience and how he started his career as a student doing a lot of concrete repairs. Bob discusses strategies an agent can use to inspect a home and the importance of doing it. Bob also talks about red flags agents should be aware when showing a house that may mean foundation issues. Last, Bob talks about his book “Foundation Repair Secrets: Learn How to Protect Yourself and Save Thousands” and how agents may find it useful.

You can pre-order Bob’s ‘Foundation Repair Secrets: Learn How to Protect Yourself and Save Thousands’ book here.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Bob Brown can be reached at 844-924-8900.

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
How would you like to be able to walk up to a property and have a better idea of how healthy the foundation is? Well, today we’re going to show you how stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solutions so that you can easily generate more business. There agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents. And for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris. I am your guide and host through the show and I am glad that you are here. What are we going to learn today? Well, in just a moment, we’re going to be speaking with Bob Brown, who’s one of the foremost experts on property foundation. So he’s going to show you some skills that you can actually take and use with your clients when looking at properties. Super exciting stuff. Before we get to Bob. Just a quick reminder, please tell a friend about this podcast. You guys are our marketing engine, our marketing arm, we love you for it. Please continue to tell other people about the show so that we can reach more ears and eyes. So thank you in advance for that. And also please, please leave us a review. Let us know what you think of the show on whatever podcast app you might be listening to us on and leave us some notes to so we can see what feedback you have and we can always we’re always looking to improve the show and make it better for you. Alright guys, let’s get to the main event my conversation with Bob Brown.

Today on the show, our guest is author, instructor and foundation repair expert Bob Brown will tell you more about Rob Now Bob graduated in 1984 from ASU receiving a Bachelor in design science from school of architecture, and a Bachelor of Science from the School of Business specializing in real estate and finance. Now growing up Bob spent time learning construction trade, working with his family while learning good working habits. And he Bob successfully founded Arizona foundation solutions and built one of the only foundation repair companies to utilize licensed professional engineers on the front end to analyze initial conditions, make recommendations and specify repairs before presenting proposals to homeowners. Now after 35 years of this see successfully exited and along those 35 years, what he did is developed and patented four successful unique solutions with three more that are pending. He also developed a cloud based software solution to streamline and assist engineers and contractors in home foundation investigations. He also wrote and self published several publications including which way is the foundation moving sorry which way is my foundation moving and he has just published and released his newest book, which is called foundation repair secrets which is available on Amazon and anywhere else books are sold I want everybody to check out Bob’s website which is foundation repair secrets.com also follow Bob on Facebook and the E and we’re going to link to both of these his book as well as his social media but to find him on Facebook, just go to Facebook search for the dirt whisperer which I am just so tickled that that that is what Bob’s title so we will welcome the dirt whisperer here to our show. Bob Welcome.

Bob Brown 4:39
Thank you glad to be here.

D.J. Paris 4:41
Glad to have you here. Now this is a very unique episode for us after 500 I think episodes somewhere around there we very rarely have talked to people in real estate adjacent or rather realtor I should say you are in real estate realtor adjacent businesses. As and I was, so I’m so excited to have you on the show. Because this is this could be a skill building opportunity for our audience. And, you know, we are just excited to help our A our audience with with something like this, which we hope could help them, you know, differentiate themselves amongst the 1.6 other no 1.6 million other realtors floating around in this country. But but let’s get started at the beginning because you really are like a renaissance man, you have been hyper focused in the real estate industry really seemingly since since college. But you’ve also built software build solutions, you have patents, you are an inventor, and you and an author, right? So you really are doing so much for this industry. Can you tell us about sort of how you got into foundation repair.

Bob Brown 5:50
I, when I was in college, I worked my way through college doing concrete repairs. And when I got out of college, I thought, well, it’s going good, I got a few employees, I’m just gonna keep doing it. And so I did, I did a lot of concrete repairs, I had an old Chevy pickup truck that in the summertime, the only way I could keep it from overheating was to drive with the heater on full blast. So if you can imagine that being 120 degrees and driving with the heater on. But I would pile that back end up with bags of concrete and go do concrete repairs. And eventually that just led to more innovative things and morphed into foundation repair.

D.J. Paris 6:34
It’s amazing. And you know, when you’ve done so much with it you not only are you you know an X an absolute, registered, recognized expert in this field, you’ve published books, you have a new book that just came out foundation repair secrets. And also you teach these classes to realtors and other professionals in Arizona because there’s actually you teach a CTE class. And I want to mention because our audience is all over the country and even other countries that even if we have a lot of Arizona realtors who listen. But even if you’re in an area, a state, that’s not Arizona, you can still take Bob’s course you won’t get the CPE credit necessarily, but this is something that I think Realtors should really consider adding to their arsenal is becoming a foundation, you know, be more knowledgeable and foundation so that when you do evaluate properties for your buyers or your sellers, you just have a little bit more information that you know will help you hopefully win that business. But maybe I’ll start with this. And I don’t know anything about foundation repair. So you I am I am the list of newbies, but you will you will help me here. So we’re I’m here in Chicago, and our Realtors at our firm here or work locally. But are there any universal sort of first first glance, sort of strategies that when an eight when a realtor does go to a property? Is there anything that they can start to look for that would maybe send up any sort of red flag or a signal that they could say, oh, this, this might be an issue?

Bob Brown 8:14
Well, there are different strategies depending on if you’re a Lister or a buying agent, right. So if you’re a listing agent, it’s better to get on board right away and recognize some of these signs of stress, which we’ll talk about here in a bit. And maybe hire a licensed professional engineer to do a really good investigation before you get involved in the listing process. Because once that all gets going, it’s difficult to it kicks a lot of things into play that maybe you don’t want to have kicked into play. Now if you’re a if you’re a Lister, I mean sorry, if you’re a buyer on the other end, you want to engage some strategies like call a licensed engineer, before you before the home inspector delivers his report because once he delivers the report, you got two days left. It’s kind of hard to do anything, right? Right. Or the alternative strategy can be Hey, building a clause right from the get go that says that the building effect the home foundation inspector, or the home inspector rather, just notices that, hey, there’s a few signs of stress and I teach a lot of the home inspector. I teach a lot of their courses for their education. But if they start to see some of the signs and put it in the report, you get an automatic 10 day extension because then you’ve got time to deal with it.

D.J. Paris 9:47
Interesting so so ideally pre inspection, you would hire a foundation repair engineer and expert to come in and evaluate the property. Now for everyone who’s a realtor are listening, I can, I can hear a little bit of people thinking I already hired inspector, but you said the challenge with that is if they do see some signs of stress, you only have a two day window to really do something with that information. So ideally, you do it before, but what is the average cost? And I could I’m sure it fluctuates wildly. But if we were just an estimate on like, a single family home, you know, traditional, you know, four bedroom house two storey kind of thing. What, what price range are would Realtors be looking at or buyers and sellers if they wanted to have somebody come take a look?

Bob Brown 10:36
Alright, so, again, a couple of strategies that has happened in the past that maybe hasn’t served realtors, and that is cheap, I’ll call a foundation repair company because who, hey, they’re experts, right? And they’re really cheap. You know, they might do it for free, or maybe three or $400. But guess what, those guys are really interested in selling a big repair. Sure, half the time you’re going to end up with, oh, there’s an $80,000 repair needed. Right? And maybe it’s needed, maybe it’s not because these guys are not engineers, right? And guess what happens to the listing? Well, if you are the, if you are the listing agent, often what happens is the homeowner fires the listing agent, clocks, everything up paints, it hides it hires a new listing agent, and doesn’t disclose it. Right? Right. So if you’re a listing agent, and you don’t want to get fired, be proactive, right? And don’t call a foundation repair company. Now, if you call an engineer, they’re going to be you know, somewhere between 515 $100 for a good inspection. Well worth it if you’re the listing agent. Now, if you’re the buyer, that’s a bit of a crapshoot, right? Because it may or may not go through and the homeowner may not be willing to pay for it, I get that. But it’s better than paying $80,000 Down the road, right?

D.J. Paris 12:05
Yes. And also remembering too, that if, in a transaction, especially on the buy side, if it if the buyers do figure this out, let’s say there was something that was painted over or or hidden, there wasn’t a an engineer out there to actually see what was sort of, you know, Band Aid it over, and the transaction happens, you know, two years go by and all of a sudden, this now comes to light and they have to spend $80,000, there, they’re probably going to have some feelings about their their by side realtor, even though, you know, whether it’s the realtors fault or not. So I think you’re bringing up a really strong point, I’m thinking about, Look, nobody wants to reduce their Commission’s by $1,500 as an agent, obviously, we understand that same time. When you’re getting you know, 10 to $15,000 on this Transit Commission, maybe it does make sense to for peace of mind. And also just to tell your clients Hey, one thing I do is in maybe you pay for it yourself, that’s certainly an option, or you build it into, you know, your commissions or however you want to do it. But boy, you know, for $500 to $1,500. I would rather have that than a buyer call me two years later and say, how do you miss this?

Bob Brown 13:22
Well, and there’s also a risk strategy, where, hey, guess what a disappointed home buyer? Well, he might feel like somebody had some negligence there. And now maybe everybody gets sued, even though maybe not everybody’s at fault, right? And now you’ve got one of those mired up situations, it’s better to try to steer clear of that.

D.J. Paris 13:47
And you really, you’re bringing up a really good point about this idea of, you know, possible litigation, because when, when all of us, you know, if we’re talking about $1,000 repair, yeah, no one’s probably filing a suit over that. You could, you know, they’ll they’ll they’ll grumble, but they’ll pay it $80,000 is enough to get somebody going. Who can who can we is there somebody that should be responsible for this? And, and there are plenty of attorneys that would love to try to get that money back from the agent or from whoever they study, they think right? Yeah, somebody’s strategy

Bob Brown 14:19
is you just sue everybody. And hopefully you figure out who was at fault. Well, that means everybody has to defend themselves, right?

D.J. Paris 14:27
Yes. And we have 800 agents. So we have we have we haven’t had that particular incident happen, but it certainly could happen anytime. But yes, we understand the for anyone who’s listening who doesn’t know if you’ve ever if you ever have an action taken against you, that’s Bob’s exactly right. Everybody gets sued, everybody’s got to defend themselves. It’s not a lot of fun. And also it’s just a lot of bad will out there. Like you don’t want your client hating your guts. Even though it may be isn’t necessarily your area of expertise. So okay, so hiring an engineer is different from hiring a foundation repair expert, because as Bob said, it’s like going to a surgeon and saying, you know, should I do surgery? Well, they’re gonna, they want to cut you because they’re surgeons. So foundation repair company wants to do foundation repair, obviously, we get that, it doesn’t mean that they’re necessarily not being fully honest. But you might not know, it’s like going to a mechanic when I eventually got a really good mechanic. And I always tell everybody, it’s like worth its weight in gold, because I never have to question what they tell me. I mean, maybe they’re scamming me, I don’t think they are, they certainly won my trust. And I just do whatever they tell me. So this is why hiring an engineer is really, really probably the better way to go. Because you would hope that there is no incentive for them to sell you additional services they just want to give you you know, structural engineers can do this. We’ve hired them for various condo buildings I’ve lived at it’s expensive, yes. But boy, is it nice. And also to a lot of times what these engineers can do is give you a schedule of like, here’s what we think is coming down the pipe for you, and a, you know, relative timeline. And here’s, and that really is worth its weight. Well in and

Bob Brown 16:05
go ahead, there’s an added dimension of the fact that, you know, the car mechanic probably knows how you know how the car functions really well. And, you know, there’s no knowledge that he needs. Additionally, that would probably make a lot of difference. But in a, in a home investigation, mainly what you’re talking about is geotechnical engineers that understand soil mechanics, and foundation repair contractors are not qualified in this area, nor are they qualified to be a structural engineer. So it’s, it does add another dimension to the fact that these guys that are foundation repair salesmen get their education from their one source supplier, that tells them how to sell that one product. Sure. And not a lot of education. I mean, engineers go through five years of school and three years of apprenticeship and two very difficult exams, and they’re overseen by boards of technical registration for their conduct. You don’t get any of that, but the foundation repair person.

D.J. Paris 17:13
Let’s talk about the relationship between soil and foundation. And what because obviously, you are the dirt whisperer, I would be remiss if we didn’t talk about dirt. So I’ll do a terrible pun, let’s get let’s get dirty and talking about That’s not even funny. Well, I just I was trying to think of a funny pun there. But anyway, let’s talk about the the what soil means to foundation and and how they interact.

Bob Brown 17:39
So there’s two basic kinds of soil that we need to really have distinctions for. One is a more granular sandy soil silty soil, and the other is clay types. And some clay types. Not all some clay types are what they call expansive soils, as you’ve probably heard the term but they don’t exactly know what it means. Well, what that really means is that when water hits those expensive soils, if they’re very dry, they’re going to expand. And guess what if they lose water, they contract. And you’ve probably seen like pictures of desert with all the cracks in it and everything right? Well, that’s clay soil, it’s dried up, and when it dries up, it makes all those cracks. And so clay soil can be cyclical, it can it can expand and contract and expand and contract. And if you have seasonal moisture pattern differentiations, your house can go up and down, up and down and have all kinds of problems. Whereas if it’s Sandy silty, those don’t get consolidated, those only move in typically one direction down. And so everybody thinks of settlement as the primary factor when in fact, there’s clay in in in a lot of stratas of soil. And when I say strata, layers, lots of layers, and each layer is different, like a seven layer chip dip. And each layer has different mineral contents and different moisture contents and different reactions to water and different amounts of water leaking into them through different channels. And so when when clay hit some of these channels, some of these layers, it expands, and you can actually push a house up. I’ve seen how house pushed up in the air nine inches. And it’ll tear house up it’ll, it’ll break concrete bend steel, very powerful force. And so it’s important to understand that there’s two mechanisms of failure here. One consolidation from sands and clays and sill are set sorry sands and silts and gravels. The other one is clay expansion which can settle also or contract depending on whether it’s getting wet or dry.

D.J. Paris 19:59
So how would How would a realtor learn about what is most common in their area of where they practice? For as far as soil type,

Bob Brown 20:09
you can go to the national conservation. Soil NCRs, I forgot the initials, but NCRs website, and they produce information, a lot of times maps that will tell you how expensive the soil is in the upper five feet, it was originally built for farmers. But all that data is still there. For most people to access,

D.J. Paris 20:36
got it got it, that’s really interesting. So it seems to me as is that it’s important for a homeowner, and certainly the realtor in a transaction buying and selling to sort of have, I would think an awareness of again, what pressure is being put on the foundation based on soil. So even just knowing that what type of soil and what the stressors are to that property really helps, I think, just give a better sense of valuation. So I would assume, if you have again, you know, ideally, you’re hiring an engineer to come out and do this work for you. Because ultimately, they’re going to going to be the final expert on on this this topic, but but just knowing a couple of these items about your local market area is going to be really helpful because you can, you know, get a history of a property’s foundation repair, if there has been Oh, that’s another question. How would How would a realtor let’s say a buyer’s agent going into a property? Would they be able to using just their own skill set be able to determine if there was foundation repair that had happened on this particular property? Is there any easy telltale signs that this property has already had foundation repair issues,

Bob Brown 21:54
I think it would be very difficult to see if Foundation, see by looking at it. If foundation repair has been done in the past now. Like if you’re from Dallas, pretty much be guaranteed that there is foundation work done. I mean, almost every house has problems in Dallas or Houston, maybe some parts of Colorado. It happens all the time. But it’s really hard. And I get Realtors coming to me all the time saying, Hey, I know like, you know that there is foundation work done on this house five years ago, can you tell me if it’s performing. And you know, if the analysis was done by a contractor, I could probably tell you nothing. If it was done by an engineer, and there was good records of it, I can tell you a lot. And so that’s another advantage of making sure you have things well documented, which an engineer would do, hard to tell by looking at it. And sure if if work was done, because everything is buried and covered up, you know, maybe in the concrete, if you see like a bunch of three foot squares where the concrete has been removed and replaced. Maybe that might give you a clue.

D.J. Paris 23:03
You know, I do want to go back to this idea of of being liable because I just was reminded, my brain reminded me about 10 minutes too late about one of our neighbors that growing up in a different anyway, not here in Chicago. But anyway, growing up there, there were some neighbors who purchased a property. This, I guess is slightly related to foundation. But basically there was mold remediation that happened. But they didn’t actually treat the mold, they painted over it, or they hired somebody to write it. And the seller knew the owner or knew the buyer. And so it was even more nefarious than that, because there was a personal connection between the two. Anyway, the buyer didn’t find out. This happened until many years later, when all of a sudden they were having these weird mold issues. And they found out that the person had put painted over black mold or whatever it was, you know, on the concrete in the foundation, and, and it was an 80,000 The reason this, it was an $80,000 repair. And we had even said you should sue those people because they lied to you. And they didn’t disclose this. And she goes, yeah, we’re just not going to do that. But but but it was like everybody was telling her to sue. So you’re really bringing up a really good point. And again, you know, obviously a realtor can’t determine everything that’s ever happened in this house if the homeowners are lying, but but it is important to sort of protect in a way it’s kind of a little bit of protection for your license, and maybe just litigation, hiring somebody for $1,000 or so to have come out. And, you know, again, we think about this is in Bob, I’m curious to get your thoughts because this is the year that we have a lot of agents exiting, the business rates are up inventories down. It’s a harder time right now to be in business as a realtor. There’s just less buyers out there and not as many homes to sell. So the reality of it is it’s trickier people are leaving. I think this is the time to level up your skills and really try to figure out what can I do going forward? That really sort of Future proofs my business. And I think this is a really smart way to consider it. Are there any other any other suggestions for realtors? And then I want to talk about the new book, sure of things that they can do aside from hiring an engineer there any little things that they could ask questions? Okay, great.

Bob Brown 25:20
Yes. So there are some very basic signs that will tell you if you have foundation related movement, and I use that term because foundations could go up or they could go down. And people make the mistake of saying foundation settlement. But foundation related movement is way more accurate. And there’s ways of telling. So for instance, if you see cracks in the drywall, and they’re either more than one or they’re significant in size, and by significance in size, I mean, you could stick a pencil, a sharp end of a pencil in it in the crack, and you can wedge it in there, so it’ll stay. That’s a significant crack. Okay. The other thing is, cracks on the outside bricks block. I I’m hesitant to say stucco, because stucco expands and contracts with heat a lot. And it can crack for a lot of reasons if they didn’t laugh at right or whatever. But it could be could be a sign of movement. If you have floors that are noticeably not level, that’s a pretty good sign, floor cracks, cracks and tiles, cracks under the carpet. By themselves, probably not anything indicator. But if they’re accompanied with other things, other things like the walls that I just mentioned, or like doors, if the door pinches, it doesn’t open and close, very good doesn’t latch right. You can see above the door, maybe it’s a gap is wide at one spot. And small on the other windows the same way. People sand down doors, so they work properly. But people don’t do that to Windows very often. So windows are kind of like the secret, like the secret tool of going in and looking at things and seeing if you have movement.

D.J. Paris 27:14
That’s interesting. So if the windows don’t easily go up or down, it could be it doesn’t necessarily mean there’s foundation issues, but it’s an indicator that there may be

Bob Brown 27:25
or sideways, the size sliders have the same problem. Yeah, closet doors, same thing. People don’t often fix closet doors, but they’re pretty good telltale signs.

D.J. Paris 27:34
So that’s a huge tip you just gave our audience. This is something you can do at every showing, you know, as a realtor, maybe you’re not necessarily checking every single window, but maybe you test a few and you say, Hey, I’m going to be testing a few of these windows just to see if there’s any indicators that there may be some foundation issues. And Bob, one thing I didn’t mention, and I’m completely sort of feel silly for not mentioning this, if anyone out there who’s listening who works with investors, or is an investor, this is really critical stuff. Because yes, single family homes, you know, you hope the inspector is good enough to sort of get a sense of what’s going on and on a you know, a single family home. But when we’re talking about, you know, multifamily properties, we’re talking about larger properties. And we’re talking about investors, you know, these are people that absolutely will be, I don’t know if they’ll always want to pay that fee to have an engineer come out. But boy, you are going to be really future proofing your business, if you can either get them to pay for it, or you pay for it yourself as the realtor, because these are people that are going to do additional projects. And if all of a sudden they have the first project you did cost him an extra 80 grand, you know, a year later, they may or may not hold that against you and may not want to work with you again. So I think if right, you know, everyone should consider this but if you’re working with with investors, this is really, really critical.

Bob Brown 28:55
Well, and I’ve been an investor for many years I’ve owned rental properties, both residential and commercial, so I know what it’s like and I actually bought a house once that had foundation problems and had to fix it. So I understand the issues. And by the way side note, you can see pictures and diagrams of all of these signs of stress in my book. And the

D.J. Paris 29:17
book is foundation repair secrets and the website is foundation repair secrets.com We will link to the Amazon book please consider buying it again guys. We’re talking about leveling up your skill. What can someone expect to learn from reading the book?

Bob Brown 29:33
Well, that’s one of them. Chapter five in the book is all about how to recognize signs of stress and and what they look like. I go into okay, you know, what are the various types of soils you know, one of my favorite sayings is you know, Clay sucks because it really does suck it actually pulls water towards itself. Engineers call it negative pore pressure to talk about all that kind of stuff, talk about foundation types, slab on grade crawlspace, post tension slabs, basements, all those all the different kinds of things and how old they are and and how they perform over time. And I talk a lot about what we’ve already discussed and that is, hey, why would I hire an engineer versus a contractor and I go into that in great, great detail so that people can viscerally understand what they’re in for, if they kind of take the cheap way out,

D.J. Paris 30:34
you know, to a lot of foundations, at least in the single family home market, here in our local area, not so much in Metro Chicago, I don’t think although I, I may be wrong, but certainly out in the suburbs, there’s a lot of drain tiles that surround a foundation. Right. And that is something that also I imagine is that part of an analysis is looking at drainage, when someone’s engineers evaluating the foundation or is that a, is that sort of a separate thing as well?

Bob Brown 31:02
It depends. You could have the engineer, include that in his scope of work. And certainly, you want to make sure the drainage works, right? If the drainage doesn’t work, right, whether it be surface drainage or subsurface drainage, you’re going to have problems and can because moisture is the catalyst of all of these problems. If the moisture is pretty much constant, you’re probably not going to have a lot of problems. But if there’s variations in the moisture, that’s when you got to look out.

D.J. Paris 31:33
Is there any rule of thumb for properties that have a basement? Is there any reason not to have a dehumidifier? kind of always running? in basements? It could that be problematic, too upsetting whatever the moisture currently is? Or is it always good to remove as much of that moisture as possible?

Bob Brown 31:54
Well, depending on your climate, you know, here in Phoenix, it’s pretty, pretty bone dry to begin, right? There’s not a lot of basements here either, but but, you know, places like maybe you know, Omaha or Chicago? Yeah, you’re gonna want that dehumidifier running all the time. And by the way, if you have a crawlspace, you probably want to get it sealed up and have a dehumidifier running in there also, because that’s just like a little mini basement. It’s your breathing the same air that’s down there that may not be all that great of air. Right?

D.J. Paris 32:26
Yeah, that’s, that’s a great tip, by the way. And a lot of here in the Midwest, we have a lot of crawl spaces. So that is absolutely an amazing tip. So if you’re a realtor, you’re taking a look at the basement, maybe you have a buyer client or it’s your listing your your list agent, you could say, you know, we may want to consider getting this getting this, you know, sealed up and having a humidifier in there running as well. It’s also I mean, it’s maybe not the most exciting gift to give somebody at a closing dehumidifier, but it’s actually a good

Bob Brown 32:58
idea. Probably keeps you out of hot water. Right. Keeps the mold out keeps everybody happy, right?

D.J. Paris 33:05
Yeah, I was just I was just giggling about the pond a little bit. But yes. Anyway, but it is is an idea. Again, these, these are things here in the Midwest, I feel like everyone’s got a dehumidifier in their basement after learning a lesson. They don’t usually have at first they so as the realtor, you could you could bring that up. What other there any other ideas that you as an engineer sort of wish Realtors understood about foundations and foundation repair and anything that that could help?

Bob Brown 33:38
Well, first of all, then clarify. I’m not an engineer, even though I owned an engineering company. I’m an architect by trade. But going on from there, engineers are really good at being objective. You know, quite often I would I would hear a foundation repair salesperson tell maybe a little old lady sitting across the table. And she says, Well, how bad is my foundation? And the foundation repair salesperson says, oh, you know, on a scale of one to 10. You know, I think it’s about an 8.5 You know, and I’m thinking wow, that’s the BS meter. You know, I don’t even know what that is. And by the way, Mr. Salesman, how’d you ride at 8.5? Well, you know, based on my years of experience and the fact that my kids need braces, I arrived at this conclusion. You want somebody doing data driven? Decisions. You don’t want to be in subjective, and you certainly don’t want to be as subjective with somebody who has something to gain by it.

D.J. Paris 34:49
Right? Yeah, this is this is why there’s even been a birth in the financial services industry around financial advisors who now watch Charge flat fees for you know, which is kind of a newer thing in the last 10 years and in that business because people would think, wow, they’re getting a percentage of the assets, I give them under management every single year, and that may or may not be in my best interest. So that does make a lot of sense. So just to reiterate that point, you know, guys, you really want to hire an objective third party who not only this is their job, but like, they have the actual training, they’re not a salesperson salespeople, you know, we all sort of inherently distrust or not distrust salespeople, but question salespeople and, and as it should be, so you want to really work with engineers who and as as I only have one architect, well, it’s not an architect joke, I’m gonna give it’s a very poor joke, but I’ll give it to you as an as an architect, because you’ll, you’ll understand it, none of our listeners will, but I’ll explain it. To them. It’s a funny joke, if you ever it’s a good joke for civil engineers, or architects. And the joke is that what is the joke? The joke is, what’s the difference between a psychotic and and a civil engineer? And the joke? The answer is one pays better. And the joke there to explain it is that what civil engineers and architects can do, which is so amazing, is they see what isn’t there. And then they create, or they’re able to visualize, and a psychotic sees what isn’t there as well, but they’re just not able to make it real. But the architects are so I don’t know, I shouldn’t have probably that was a dumb joke by

Bob Brown 36:23
and go. Vincent van Gogh.

D.J. Paris 36:27
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But anyway, that’s my little silly joke. But as far as let’s talk about the book so so foundation repair secrets, is the book available everywhere books are sold linked to the Amazon sales page, right? In our our notes, what what else? Give us some give us some of the other, you know, headings and chapters is this for who’s the book for more importantly,

Bob Brown 36:52
well, I wrote it primarily for homeowners and realtors, although I think a lot of engineers could benefit from this as well. And I say that somewhat timidly because, you know, engineers get a bit sensitive about non engineers telling them what they should be doing, even though I did own engineering company. But there’s, you know, this is a field of forensics, that’s not done by very many engineers, and they can, if they want to go into that field, they can learn some things that will be helpful for them. But mostly, mostly, I think it’s good for homeowners and realtors who want to understand how this how the Foundation’s work, how soils work, and how they interact together to cause foundation dysfunction. And one of the things that I talk about in the book is, well, this kind of one trick pony business that goes on in the foundation repair industry. So what happens is, there’s several big suppliers of products, and they find installers, and there’s usually an exclusive relationship. And it’s a very close relationship. Well, those guys provide steel peering products, or sometimes concrete peering products to go in the ground to lift things up, right. But what do you do if it’s heaving? Wow, they don’t have a whole lot to say about that. They try to ignore it. Because guess what, they don’t have a lot of products for it. So one of my patents and put it out there for contractors to be able to license from me is to be able to use a sub slab depressurization system on an existing house that dries out the clay’s and stops heating. So if you have a heating problem, now there’s a tool that can be addressed, as opposed to just shrugging your shoulders like everybody’s done for the last 50 years and say, well, there’s nothing we can do about it. And oh, it could be a little bit of heat. Let’s just put piers in any way to cover ourselves, and all that kind of business that goes on.

D.J. Paris 39:06
And so this would actually help remove moisture from the clay. Is that am I understanding that correctly? That’s correct. That’s correct. And moisture is the enemy. We will we will?

Bob Brown 39:17
Well, it depends. It depends. So like if you’re in Houston, probably it’s pretty wet soil for the last few 100,000 years. At moot. removing moisture isn’t the ideal thing to do. It just depends on where you’re at. And that’s another reason why you want an engineer involved because you want to figure out what the annual precipitation is and how variant how much varying it is. So it could be a helpful tool in some situations, maybe not all situations.

D.J. Paris 39:48
Right? Obviously there’s there’s over dry and over wet and rather are bad. But I guess I’m thinking practically if I’m a realtor, I want to learn a I have a little bit about this myself so that I can appear to have a degree of skill. Again, a, you know, not an official licensed opinion of foundation, but just a couple of things I could learn from your book, which would enable me to make a better decision for my buyers or sellers. And then the other thing I’d want to do based on what everything I’ve heard you say today is get the book, first get the book learn, maybe take a one of your classes as well, because you you teach classes to realtors about this stuff. And then what I would do personally, since realtors have to wear so many hats, and you can’t be everything to everyone is I would I would start interviewing architects or engineers, to say, Hey, I sell this many homes a year, I would love for you to be my partner to come in every single time and and build a relationship there and maybe even work out you know, a fee arrangement with them. And and then start marketing that to your clients. Hey, I’m adding a new service to my I’m just curious if you’ve seen agents adopt this kind of strategy and how it’s how it works for them.

Bob Brown 41:10
Yes, I have seen agents do it. However, unfortunately, most of the time they do it with foundation repair companies, which is, which is a problem for them. But you know, you don’t want to be searching for people. When the when the you know, time is of the essence, right? You’re running out of time, you know you don’t want what you want to do is just exactly what you said, Go proactively, go try to find somebody, you know, develop a relationship with them, make sure you’re on the same page with them that they understand what you’re looking for, and have them ready and then use that as a marketing tool. So that people understand that you’re a little bit better than the average Joe, you’ve got this under control, you have the right relationships, you understand how it works, all that kind of stuff.

D.J. Paris 42:00
It’s really brilliant. The book is foundation repair secrets just published. And it is available on Amazon. Other places books are sold. There’s hardcopy, there’s digital, so please consider purchasing. And again, even if even, you know for $10 with the book is $10 Digital, if it gives you three or four talking points, boy that’s worth way more than $10 in my mind on so absolutely no brainer there and also go to Bob’s website because he has a lot of information that he just gives away right on his site. He’s he speaks he’s an author, he’s an inventor, he’s a really neat guy in this space. And there aren’t a lot of experts in this space that work with that sort of talk to realtors. So I mean, Bob teaches Realtors do so foundation repair. secrets.com is the website to learn all things, Bob. And you know, he’s got an his Facebook page as well, which is just search for the dirt whisperer, we’ll link to that in our show notes. He’s got a lot of followers too. So check him out. He’s always posting great content, specifically short bits of content that realtors can subscribe to it. You know, it’s funny, Bob, I was thinking I am going to add you to my to my social media, I was just chatting with somebody about this. And I’ll just use say this as a sort of FYI, to our audience. There’s a new social channel called threads, which people have probably racked at once and maybe continue to like it. But anyway, I was thinking, you know, I never got into Tik Tok, or really Instagram Personally, myself, I’m not somebody that scrolls endlessly looking at stuff because I just I don’t know that that’s good for me. And also, I don’t have a lot of control over it. Well, this is how silly I am, I didn’t realize you can search for things on Instagram or Tiktok. And so if it was me, I would specifically search for things like foundation repair secrets, foundation repair, helps, I would subscribe to Bob’s channel. And I would start to teach the algorithms and whatever social channel you use that this is the kind of content you want to see. Instead of just having it passively kind of play out in front of you. You can actually search for things like this. So what wouldn’t it be cool, if every once a week you saw one of Bob’s posts just as you’re scrolling through Instagram, or Tiktok. And Bob does post quite a bit. And it’s always educational. So definitely subscribe to them, but start teaching the whatever social channel you’re using, start teaching it the best way to teach it search, do searches, specific searches. I know it’s a little bit of work, but this will tell the algorithms oh yeah, this person is interested in this. And it will serve up more of more of that than just you know some of the sillier content that isn’t going to help your business. So I’m so grateful Bob that you do have an active social channel. Again, it’s the dirt whisperer and we’re gonna link to all of Bob’s social channels so you can find them everywhere. He’s an author, he’s an inventor, he’s just he this is this is his his thing. And he is probably the number one guy in the country around this particular topic. So we are going to stay in touch with with Bob. I want everybody to go Consider buying his book, The dirt. The dirt whisperer, that is not the name of the book, though. Although it could be the name of a book I like that if you do a buy a biography, that’s got to be the name. But the the foundation repair secrets is the name of the book, Bob is the dirt whisperer. Follow him on Facebook, the dirt whisperer, find him on his website, foundation, repair secrets.com and consider buying that book. And basically, here’s the subtitle of this book, which really just sells it completely. Learn how to protect yourself and save 1000s That’s literally what you’re doing by learning some of these skills, protecting yourself as an agent and a homeowner and investor or protecting your clients. And you’re saving yourself lots of money in the process. And yeah, let’s let’s not learn from salespeople, let’s learn from engineers and architects, right? The people that know the math, let’s go back to the math. And Bob and his Bob and his ilk know the math. So and by the way, if you’re looking for a recommendation for a good you know, foundation expert or engineer, rather, in your area, you know, Bob would give it given had provided some resources. And you can also reach out to Bob to you know, he’s He’s very friendly. He’s a super, super nice guy. This is his passion. So if you go to his website, you can reach out to him there again, foundation repair secrets.com. Bob, thank you so much for being on our show. You’re wonderful. This was super helpful to our audience, I am on behalf of our audience want to thank you for being part of our show coming on. Hope we sell a lot of books for you and get people signed up. And also you can Oh, I wanted to mention one more thing. Ask tell your brokerage, hey, you know, managing broker or owner let’s hire Bob to teach us a couple of little tips and tricks for our particular area that he may know Bob can be hired for these kinds of consulting and speaking gigs as well. He speaks all over the country about this so you can find them foundation repair secrets.com You can hire Bob find him he is he’s the real deal. And very excited to continue watching your your career Bob, you do so many different things. You’re in it, you’re you’re an author, you do a lot of cool stuff. So thank you on behalf of our audience. And on behalf of Bob and myself, we want to thank our audience for making it all the way to the end of our episode. And please tell a friend think of one other realtor that could benefit from hearing this great conversation with Bob. But maybe they don’t know about our show. Why don’t you let them know about keeping it real? Send them a link to our website, keeping it real pod.com Or you know, we’re on every social channel as well. So just hit that subscribe button and follow us. We appreciate it. Tell a friend and go buy Bob’s book right now foundation repair secrets and that link is on our show notes to Amazon. Bob, thank you so much and we will see everybody next time.

Bob Brown 47:51
Awesome. appreciate being here.

Grant Muller with The Grant Muller Team and Speaker, Author, Certified High Performance Coach™ shares his diverse business background and expert negotiation skills. Grant describes how he transitioned from a person who abused with narcotics to a very successful real estate businessman. Grant also talks about how he always wanted to be a real estate agent and describes how he used his experience in consumer services to build his business in real estate. Last, he talks about his book ‘Top of Heart” and how you can build your business by building genuine and meaningful human connections.

You can buy Grant’s ‘Top of Heart’ book here.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Grant Muller can be reached at (720) 289-1799 and [email protected].

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
Today we’re going to show you how to go from top of mind to top of heart. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide and host through the show and in just a moment, we’re going to be speaking with top producer and coach and author grant Mueller. Before we get to Grant’s just a couple of quick reminders. As always, the best way that you can help keep our show moving forward and expanding is by telling the friend think of one other realtor that needs to hear what you’re about to hear from Grant and shoot them over a link. Also leave us a review whatever podcast app you might be listening to us on whether it’s Spotify, Apple podcasts, wherever, let us know what you think of this show really helps us as well. And one last thing if you’re not following us on social media every weekday we are posting a short form video clip from a recent episode that is a sort of a 62nd actionable you know video, the best way to say it sort of like the best hits of our recent episodes so you can find us every every social channel, just search for keeping it real podcast, hit that subscribe button. We appreciate it. All right on to my conversation with the great grant Mueller.

Today on the show, our guest is top 1% producer and coach and author grant Mueller with compass in Denver, Colorado. Let me tell you more about Grant. Grant Mueller is a speaker, author, certified high performance coach and realtor on a mission to help real estate agents achieve more without endless hustle. After becoming a millionaire before the age of 30 grant fell into a downward spiral that caused him to lose everything moving past addiction and homelessness. He built a remarkable real estate career as a consistent seven figure earner, and grant knows what it takes to sell. And it all starts with a heart centered approach. And his new book top of heart tells the story of how he went from homeless to over 1 million in gross commission income. Please help me welcome grant Mueller grant. Welcome to the show.

Grant Muller 3:47
Thank you DJ, I’m looking forward to our conversation.

D.J. Paris 3:50
And by the way for everyone, I want everyone to do a couple of things. First, go to grants website, Grant mueller.com. gra ntmuller.com, you can learn about all things grant author, he’s a coach, he has some free courses for you as well. So go to grant mueller.com. You can find on Amazon by the way, it has a perfect five star review from all the people that have reviewed it. And it’s not just like friends have reviewed it. Lots of people have reviewed this and they’ve all given it a perfect five stars. And it’s an awesome book. So please go on Amazon and purchase it. We’ll have a link to both grants website, all of his social accounts as well as a link to buy the book right in our show notes. But anyway, Grant Thank you again for being on our show. We appreciate it.

Grant Muller 4:39
Yeah, absolutely. I think after that introduction, there’s nowhere but no, we’re a bit down for me. So

D.J. Paris 4:44
I like to set up my guests for failure. I’d like to this is this is the mountain I’ve put you on it now. Let’s topple you over. I am I you and

I didn’t not

understand, you know, we sort of you know, oh, I’m sorry, are we? I am cutting out aren’t we? Okay. My apologies. Am I still cutting out grant?

Grant Muller 5:20
Yeah, you’re better now. But you that’s the second time you went out. So, boy, yeah, we might Yeah, we’re

D.J. Paris 5:26
having for everyone listening. I apologize. This is a Comcast issue for our entire business is dealing with this. So if this continues, I won’t know. So grant, will you tell me if I keep cutting out and then if we need to reschedule if it’s bad enough where we can’t do it? So we’ll try to fix this in post but um, let me know if it’s if it’s unlistenable. And we’ll just we’ll redo it for next week. So my apologies. No worries. Oh, no, no, everything looks good again. So we’ll see you there. Oh, the internet. It’s fun. You for a grant for telling me that. So so yeah. So I want to hear your story. Because I what I’m always most impressed with, is people who pull themselves up, it’s not even about failing, because everybody fails. Everybody makes mistakes. Everyone has hard challenges in life. But it’s it’s the resiliency that is that is built, you know, the from the ashes, right? It’s the strength and, and, and resiliency that comes out of tragedy that I am always so drawn to. And so I’d love to hear your story about how you, you know, overcame the obstacles that have showed up in your life.

Grant Muller 6:37
Sure, absolutely. Very quickly, early on. As, as a kid really, I learned how to pretend to be someone I’m not to fit in. And to get along with everybody. And it was a lesson I learned very early on. And as I got older, I kept pretending to be someone. I’m not just to kind of make it and to fit in. And in middle school, I started drinking. And by high school,

D.J. Paris 7:07
middle school, that’s amazing. That’s that’s a really early.

Grant Muller 7:09
Yeah, yeah. It was late middle school, but it was middle school. And by high school, I was drinking every day. And I somehow made it through high school. And as I went into the workforce, I started to figure out that workaholism has way better side effects and alcoholism. And so, I kind of cold turkey, quit drinking for a while. And I worked like a madman. And I was a stockbroker at Charles Schwab. And a year into that job, I was given a team of 24 stockbrokers to work under me. I was actually the youngest manager they’d ever promoted. So I had incredible success. A year later, I was the senior manager of a department with 60 people in it. And then shortly after that, I got recruited to an internet startup. Now, this is the late 90s. So Internet startup was just everything was everything. Absolutely. That tech boom. And it was a software company that was starting an internet services division in Denver. And which really dates it right, because now internet is everything. It’s not a division. And I was hired as the head of service, because I love customer service, consumer service. And that’s what I’ve been doing at Schwab. They hired me as the head of service. I showed up at my colleagues apartment where our first Denver office was her living room. And I said, Hey, I’m the head of service. And she said, Well, great. We have no clients. So you’re also the head of sales. And I said, Well, what are we selling? And they said, well, we don’t really know yet. But this internet thing is getting really big. And we need to figure out how we use our software for the internet. We want you to go find our first 50 Beta clients, and let them help us design the product. So we found the first 50 Beta clients. We went public, we all got rich, you know, Porsches and Ferraris started showing up in the parking lot. breakfast lunch and dinner was catered. I had a foosball table right outside my office. This is before Google. Before it was cool to show up to work in holey jeans. We were doing it. And it was really cool. Except I remember the night that we went public. And I was in my fancy condo overlooking the skyline of Denver. And I remember thinking to myself, well, I’ve done it. I met met my goal. I’m a millionaire by 30. But I thought is this it? Is this all there is? I was miserable. I was unhappy. I didn’t like who I was. And I was still pretending to be someone. I wasn’t at this internet company pretending to become a tech bro. But it wasn’t who I was. And so I think sometimes when we go after goals for the wrong reasons, in this case to make me feel better about myself, when we get those goals, and they don’t fill that hole, it’s just devastating. And that’s what happened to me, I started drinking again. And within a few months, I tried cocaine for the first time. And a few months after that I was fired because I was a daily cocaine user, from the very first moment I started. And so I went downhill very, very quickly. But no problem. I’m 28. I’m a millionaire, and at least in stock options, and I kept partying, I didn’t worry about it, I thought, This is great. I don’t have a job. Now to get in the way of the endless party. I was spending about $30,000 a month on cocaine, partying, various trips. And one day one of my checks bounced. And I thought, oh, it’s kind of weird. I need to exercise more shares, you know, when you’re spending $30,000, a month on party, and you don’t really sit down to balance your checkbook. In all honesty, I still don’t balance my checkbook. So I called up to exercise more shares. And they said, Mr. Mueller, we don’t see any stock options in this account. And I said, That’s right. Obviously, there’s misunderstanding. I have 16,000 shares, the stock options go look again. Well, it turned out, I had 90 days to exercise the shares after I left the company. And because I hadn’t, I forfeited about $1.2 million of stock options. In a moment, everything was gone. And we liquidated the cars. We bought coke with the liquidated cars, we did the Coke, within a week from then, that cars were gone, the Coke was gone, the friends were gone. And I was left in this condo miserable, pretty close to broke, with no real prospects. And long story short, I was foreclosed on a few months later. And I spent the next few years either couchsurfing or in the end, living on the streets. So that’s a little bit of the background. Luckily, things got bad enough for me that I was super desperate to do whatever it took to get clean and sober. And I believe that’s often what addicts need to get clean and sober as the willingness to do whatever it takes. And it was bad enough for me, I was supposed to go to prison for four years. And through what I believe was some kind of spiritual intervention, as well as a really loving family that didn’t give up on me. I ended up going to 30 days of rehab, and probation instead. And yeah, so that really quickly because I know your question is going to be well, that’s great, but how’d you end up in real estate. So I had always wanted to be a realtor, I had bought some investment properties along the way. And I really had a less than favorable opinion of the service I was getting from most of the realtors, being a guy that was doing consumer services for a living, I thought there was an opportunity to really professionalize and to really add some attention and beauty to the customer service process that I didn’t see. And so I’d never wanted to give up those great jobs, though, to become a realtor. So now it’s 2008. I’m living in a storage unit. And the market is at the very bottom, and my life is at the very bottom. And I think well, what better time than now. So that’s how I ended up being a realtor.

D.J. Paris 13:42
What and you got in it, possibly the you could argue in one of the most challenging times in real estate, you know, back in 2008 2000 to 2010. That was a huge crash. For those of us that were alive during that time, or remember, we’re practicing during that time. Although I might say, I might suggest that could have been a great time to get in only because there were a lot of people exiting the business around that time as well because it was so challenging to be a realtor during those those years. So I imagined kind of a trial by fire scenario where you probably got amazing training during those the that time as people were fleeing the market, which isn’t too dissimilar from what’s happening even today, we’re seeing a lot of agents leave the industry 2023 Here, rates are high, of course, inventory is lower than in most markets. So we’re having we’re seeing people exiting the business and we’re seeing the agents who are really stepping on the gas picking up that market share. But I want to just dial go all the way back to something that you said at the very beginning that I want to just make a point of because I’ve had a similar experience and and Grant was talking about once you achieve some major goal that he had this is this all Altair is moment. And I had a similar experience just a few years ago, I had always wanted to write. And I had a much, much smaller sort of goal. But my my lifetime dream was to write a funny article to be published in a in a humor magazine. And that was always kind of my thing. And there weren’t any humor magazines for a long time, National Lampoon was kind of the place I wanted to do that with, but they went out of business. Anyway, then, I had the opportunity to, I think, three or four years ago to actually get published in a magazine like that. And it was a big deal. For me, it was kind of like, my life’s ambition was just to be recognized with a piece of humor. And I remember that day being one of the saddest days of my life, and I couldn’t quite figure out why. And I remember going, well, this is a bummer. I thought this was gonna be the best day of my life. And I was very honored. And I was great. And I, it was a good piece. And I’m really proud of the work that I did, and it got published, I’m super proud of it. But I was also horribly depressed. And I think that is a very common thing, that all of us need to realize that that, you know, we sometimes we look for some external event, it’s like, that’s going to be the thing, if I could just achieve that, if I could just get you know, whatever the goal is, then I’ll be happy. And what you find out, at least what I found out is that it was the journey was really was really the real benefit. When I actually achieved the goal actually got really depressed. So it was like, Oh, the juice is it when I achieve the goal, that juice is all the work I did up to it. So I’m curious to get your thoughts on that just I just wanted to touch on that before we get into, you know, everything else.

Grant Muller 16:38
Now, it’s a super important theme. And it’s one that runs through my coaching, it runs through the book runs through a lot of the work that I do, I really believe that achievement comes from fulfillment, not the other way around. Yeah. So when we are fulfilled, fulfilled when we appreciate who we are, and maybe we don’t always like every part of who we are. But when we love ourselves, and we appreciate who we are, we appreciate the journey that we’re on and we bring some joy to our daily existence, achievement will flock to us. And just to put it in real estate agent terms, when we go to a listing appointment. And we’re solid about who we are and the value that we deliver. And we love being there simply for the act of being there and finding a way to serve, the person that we’re meeting with, it’s much more likely we’ll get the listing. fulfillment is where the achievement comes from.

D.J. Paris 17:31
100% I always think like, outcome is kind of up to the gods, like the outcome is, is up to things that are largely for the most part outside of our control. Sometimes things fall our way, sometimes they don’t, and we can, you know, improve our skill to have them fall more likely our way than not. But the end of the day, the one thing that we always have control over is our effort, our actions. And if we can derive fulfillment and pleasure from the work itself, then the actual goal becomes less significant, right? It becomes about the work. And the work ultimately leads you’re going to get the goals anyway. But what’s nice is you don’t have to live and die by the goals. You live and die by the work. At least that’s the way I’ve just tried to live my life.

Grant Muller 18:21
Absolutely. It’s so much more fun that way too. Yeah,

D.J. Paris 18:24
it is a lot less stress. Yeah, exactly. I want let’s, let’s talk about so let’s talk about real estate. So, you know, I didn’t want to talk about the book as well top of heart, which you know, again, is is a take on the expression top of mind. You know, we think oh, I want to keep our clients, we will always want to be top of mind when we actually want to be top of heart. And I am super interested in learning about what that means to you and how you keep yourself on top of heart with your with your clients and how you train agents to do the same.

Grant Muller 18:59
In 2008, I got I got a job at the front desk of a real estate office. nine bucks an hour living in a storage unit

D.J. Paris 19:06
after being a millionaire lost everything. Yeah, you’re back at the bottom. Yeah. But I,

Grant Muller 19:11
to me, it was amazing. I went to work, I got to go to a clean place to work. Instead of the life I’ve been living on the street. So it was fancy to me. I remember just thinking the glass doors were also clean. I mean, everything was so pristine. It was a big deal to me just to be inside just to have water or soda when I wanted. It was a huge deal to me, wasn’t hard to impress me. And I learned from being at the front desk a little bit about while I was getting my license. I noticed agents that did well and agents that didn’t and what they had in common, and a lot of them had this ability to just be they were just they seem to be the ones that I looked forward to. When they came through the door of the office. They were the ones that look forward to seeing those will also the same ones that seem to be have a higher production, and I didn’t quite put all of it together. yet, but I know now those are the people that when they reached out to the clients, the clients want to hear from them. Yeah. And so I, I got the but it took me a moment. And this was 2009. When I got my license, I started running Craigslist ads for foreclosure properties, and did the Direct Marketing route. And I was calling anybody who left a phone number I was calling beating them off reading the sales script to get an appointment. And I eventually fell upon a few clients. And at one point, I got a phone call from somebody, this is after I’d done four or five deals. And they said, Hey, so and so referred me to you. I’d like you to help me buy a house. I heard you’re a great agent. And I started taking them through the sales script. And they stopped me and said, No, no, you don’t, there’s no need for that.

D.J. Paris 20:49
You already got the sale.

Grant Muller 20:50
You got this later. Whoa, bro, like back off, stop selling. And let’s just meet. And I thought, Oh, is this what they’ve been talking about when they say real estate’s a relationship business. This is kind of cool. And that was my first referral, client referral. And now 98% of my business is repeat clients and referrals from clients. And I just fell in love with that process. And there was some times along the way. And I won’t get into all that now. But where I thought, well, if I’m going to do relationships, I’m going to do relationships on a huge scale. So I could build a huge business. And I kind of went up some peaks and valleys along that journey. But what I finally started to figure out, I was in recovery meetings at night, sure, learning how to get real for the first time in my life, to get real with who I am, my circumstances, the challenges I had. But then during the day, I was learning some top of mind tactics. And by the way, I think top of mind is great, but I was learning some tactics that didn’t feel congruent to who I was. And I felt like I was gonna have to pretend to be someone I wasn’t, you know, to have a really nice, friendly phone conversation, and then at the end to say, Oh, by the way, who do you know, though, I need to buy a house next year, six months,

D.J. Paris 22:06
and I battled just that, oh, man, I

Grant Muller 22:09
thought am I gonna have to pretend to be someone, I’m not again, to make it in this business. And I was virtually unemployable at this time. So I had to make it work. So I did some of that. But I started to learn along the way that when I created real genuine emotional connections and relationships with clients, and with people in my sphere, referral started to happen, almost like it was magic. And so what I like to say is that the know like and trust the top of mind, is absolutely a great place to start. It just doesn’t go far enough. And so that’s what type of heart comes from. So it’s know like, and trust is top of mind. And then on top of Top of Mind, so building upon that model is top of heart. And top of heart is the mindset, the skill set, and the heart set. And the mindset is to get real, to be who we really are this short version. But once we’re real with who we really are, and we’re creating great relationships, it’s not. It’s good. But what if we’re not really good at what we do? What if we don’t have the skill sets or the habits to follow through on what we need to do we use you and I were chatting before about consistency. But if you don’t have the consistency to do the things, so you’ve got to have the skill sets. And then heart set is all about how do we get present? How do we get connected? How do we build a community of people that we can be a part of that we can lead, and that we can serve. And that will then of course, also serve our business. And so it’s mindset skill set, heart set is top of heart.

D.J. Paris 23:42
I love that those are all super important. And I think you know, we you’re right top of mind is better than not being in someone’s head. But being in their heart is really where you can live forever. And then you have this ability to really connect with somebody at a deep level. And in real estate, you are helping people make deep emotional decisions. These are difficult financial decisions, they’re obviously big financial decisions, and they’re typically pretty emotional. And so I think you’re so absolutely right that, yes, we want to connect at a deep level emotionally, we also want to make sure our core competency our skill level is actually you know, good so that we can, you know, support and treat our clients in the way that we need. And then also just running a business, you’re doing a ring a lot of hats as a realtor. So what are some of the ways in which you suggest agents start to think about sort of penetrating into their clients hearts?

Grant Muller 24:45
Great question. You know, in I think a lot of us try to follow the rules, and we’re raised to follow the rules to do what’s expected of us, you know, to keep relationships kind of safe. insecure, and a little superficial, and in business and sales and real estate, it’s like that even more. And these, these top of mind tactics really, they keep us in front of rather than with people. So we’re really learned in real estate and think about some of the real estate coaching classes or classes you’ve taken, they really teach us to stay relevant in people’s minds rather than real with people. And, you know, that’s over that that world is done. The age of putting up the business front, it’s done it playing, you know, playing numbers, games, and calling human beings targets, or prospects. I think it’s time we bring the humanity back to business, and that we really treat people as human beings. And so to answer your question very directly, I think one of the greatest gifts we can give another human being is to allow them to be seen and appreciated, as they really are. Therapists call this positive. Think about just a second year unconditional positive regard is what a what therapists call it. And when I came across that term, I said, Oh, yeah, that’s it. So how do we hold people and hold space for them, and allow them to be seen and feel safe as they really are, that’s an incredible gift, we give another human being. And when we do that, then we start to enter that heart space. And when we get real, and we show up as we really are. Now, instead of a me and you thing, we’re a wee thing, right? And when we create that relationship at that level with somebody, and by the way, this doesn’t have to be a friendship, don’t get me wrong, we don’t have to have a bunch of pretender friends. This not all of my clients are friends with me. But we connect in some way emotionally. And that’s the difference between somebody saying, Yeah, I’ve got somebody you know, you can use as a realtor, if they’re asked, versus somebody just hearing somewhere about real estate across the room and going, you got to call a DJ, or I’ve never talked to you again. Right, right. Head to head to heart. That’s the difference.

D.J. Paris 27:09
Yeah, it’s absolutely, you know, you said something very important, which is about letting a creating a space where someone can be authentically themselves. It’s like, okay, what does that actually mean? What I think it the way that I interpret that is providing a safe, non judgmental place, where, for example, if I’m a realtor, and I have a client, where a client can, you know, express their emotions, they can talk about what their experience is buying, selling, you know, getting ready to buy or sell any part of the process, there’s an expression in a men’s group that I’m a part of called all of you as welcome. So it’s a very similar sort of idea, what you were saying, which is bring all of you to this, you don’t have to be a certain way you just have to be, and I as the agent will be here to allow you to be, and I will help guide you through this process. Is that kind of the way you you think about it?

Grant Muller 28:08
Yes, absolutely. And I think the way that we create that permission, is that we lead the way. So we bring all of who we are, we get clear about our own beliefs and our own strengths and our own values. So that we bring all of us to the transaction. Now, by the way, I’m not suggesting some kind of, I’m not a therapist. So guess what, I don’t have to just take every client and give them unconditional positive regard. I can have lunch or coffee with somebody and think you know what, I’m going to love them from a distance, I don’t think that they’re a great fit for me. So because I invest so much time and energy in the relationships for the people that are in my community, what people call it, their sphere, I call it my community, and I invest a lot of time and energy and love there. So you have to be somebody that I genuinely want to serve. And honestly, that’s not most people. So I have a process for meeting people and kind of letting them audition to be a part of my community. I don’t tell them they’re auditioning, of course, that would be terrible. But it’s just, you know, a way to think about it. And so, so I’ll add somebody to my just met tag in my CRM to put us to tactics level, and then I’ll invite them to coffee, and I’ll get to know them. And it’s not about judging them. It’s not about being friends or not, it’s about do we click? Do we do we have some common values? Do we click in some way? Is it easy? And do I have energy when I leave them or have they drained my energy? That’s, that’s it. It’s really

D.J. Paris 29:39
important stuff. And I could not agree more. It’s like, we have such a really huge opportunity in this industry where it’s such an interpersonal business, real estate, and it allows us to really work on our ability to deeply connect with other humans. Yes, we have to be great realtors, we have to have the skill sets. to actually perform the duties, our clients and trust upon us, but also this idea of it’s, it’s bigger than that, right? So so you know, a lot of emotion goes into these sort of, you know, transactions and relationships need to be pretty solid to help guide somebody through. And so what you’re really talking about is building intimacy. It sounds like, you know, when you’re you’re meeting with or determining if they’re, you know, what level of intimacy and intimacy is not a scary word, but it’s just about connection. You know, we’re talking about connection. And when people feel connected, they, like you said, they shout across the room, oh, my gosh, you need a realtor talk to talk to grant.

Grant Muller 30:42
And understanding what the person across the table needs from us. I have I wrote about a senior citizen in my book, who, you know, every time I went to her, I needed to add another hour to that time, because she needed that space. To share some of her life story, it became a, you know, it became a huge lesson for me, I learned so much from her. And I learned to slow down, and to realize that everyone has a story that could be valuable. The lady that I had lunch with today, right before this, she needs 25 minutes for lunch, bing, bang, boom, out, she wants to see me, she wants to hear me, she wants to tell me what she needs, you know, she’s kind of a networker, and we want to exchange some value real quick. She’s very business minded. And then she’s out the door, those two people need something very different. I had a client’s once once who unfortunately lost her son in an avalanche. And I ended up having lunch with her. She didn’t cancel the appointment. I didn’t know anything about this. And she cried through most of lunch. And I, I didn’t know I had no value to add, I have no children. I have not lost somebody in that way. But I created a space to allow her to have the space. And so I think it’s about understanding what people need from us and meeting them where they’re at.

D.J. Paris 32:00
Yeah, and not in your right you can have I always think there’s a distinction between judgment and preference, right. So we can allow people to be authentically themselves, which means you are free to express yourself as you are. And and I just lost my own train. Oh, but But I may still have a preference. So I can still have a preference that oh, that person I connect with better than this person. It doesn’t mean that person is good, bad, indifferent. It just means, like you were saying, Do we do our energies connect? And that’s really what you’re ultimately looking for in a client? What are what are some of the ways in which you determine whether your energies connect, when you’re like you were saying you have a just met person in your in your database? You take them out for coffee? And how do you then proceed from there.

Grant Muller 32:50
It’s a feeling I wish I could use, I wish I could give you some smart matrix I use. But you know, I generally no, it’s, well, I’ll put it this way, I treat those relationships, like I do any other relationships in my life, we all know, if we want to continue a relationship with someone or not. So I allow that that relationship to follow its natural course. And a lot of times, in my life, at least I’m a bit more of an introvert, I’m a bit of an acquired taste. So a lot of times for me, the natural course of a relationship is I meet somebody and immediate doesn’t really go anywhere right away. That’s just not who I am necessarily. So if it’s easy, and it feels like it clicks, then then I’ll know it. And so I just treat business relationships, like I do regular relationships, I just treat them like real relationships. And that sounds so simple. It’s taken a lot of work for me, that’s why I had to write a book about it to kind of figure out what the process is, but, but I had to get really clear about who I am, and what my values are. And then it’s easier for me to look for similar values, or at least values that are adjacent, aligned as best but if they’re even adjacent, that’s great. Um, you know, you might love serving a certain underrepresented population in your nonprofit work that’s very different than the population I love to serve. But we have the same heart for service. And so then that would be, you know, something that we have in common that we can then put to work in our relationship. So some common common beliefs, values, strengths are really valuable.

D.J. Paris 34:31
And it’s important for I think, one thing, I would put this in the soft skills category, but equally as important as any of the harder skills category is really thinking about who your ideal everyone listening, who is your ideal client, and I know there’s lots of different categories of clients. Not everyone is going to fit in the same in the same bucket. But what kind of clients do you meaning listeners? Do you you resonate with Who do you? Like? Do you like working with people that are the data driven? You know, just want to see the numbers non emotional, you know, sort of more empirically objectively based people? Or is it more of the deeper connecting touchy feely types or somewhere in between. And obviously, there’s a million different personality types. But thinking about what you resonate with what lights you up, Mr. or Mrs. listener, here is thinking about what what you’re looking for in the same thing that you do if you’re looking for a romantic partner, a business partner, friend, I mean, these are really important questions to ask yourself, because what what your brain can start to do is start to filter and look and start to seek those people out. But you don’t know until you know what you’re looking for. So I think what you’re saying, Grant, it’s so it’s a simple thing to say. But it’s really profound. And something that people can do over and over again, to start thinking about, if I could design my ideal client, what would they look like? What would how would they respond? How would they act now? Nobody’s perfect. So you can’t Don’t create a perfect human being because no, that doesn’t exist. But if you get some of the certain qualities that you look for, you know, how agreeable are they? How decisive are they these are things that you should be looking for, so that you can you know, better communicate with these people?

Grant Muller 36:22
Yeah, absolutely. And I would say, you know, I tend to get along with a lot of different personality types. But for me, I look for some common shared interests, so or goals. So I’m really big into horses. And many of my clients are horse people. And the cool thing is, I get to go do the thing that I love the most in the world. And by doing that, I naturally meet people who also love this thing. I love the most in the world. And so now, instead of us sitting across the table, looking at each other, we’re on the same side of the table, sharing in this in this thing we love together, and what builds better connections and sharing something you love together. And then when we do the real estate thing, the real estate thing is almost like a side note. It’s like we have a lovely day together. And then it’s oh, by the way, can you would you call me some time we actually want to have you over look at the house, you can help me sell sell is Do you still do that? Right? Yeah, I do that cool. And that’s that it’s that simple. And when it happens in that flow, it’s just, it’s beautiful. The other Monday morning, two weeks ago, I rode, I rode horses, through this beautiful, beautiful ranch property with one of my best clients, and a person who’s a great friend. And we had a view of what a great Monday morning. And just trust me when I say the numbers are super lucrative. So how, you know how beautiful is it to bring all of those things together. And I think that’s a big reason why I get to do the numbers I do without burning out. Because I’m not pretending to be someone I’m not I’m living congruent with my values. And I’m having a great time along the way. And that’s a lot of what my coaching is about is helping people to find a business plan that works for who they really are, so that they’re not failing to implement somebody else’s plan for them. Because I feel like we learn things that don’t feel right for us. So then we don’t follow through on them. And then we beat ourselves up and think there must be something wrong with us. And that’s just no way to live.

D.J. Paris 38:29
I agree. But let’s talk about your coaching. Because you just said a lot. And I was going to start heading down a different avenue. And I realized I would be hijacking the entire interview. And I don’t want to do that because I want to learn about what you actually offer with respect to coaching. So let’s talk about Grant Mueller. By the way, the web, the book, again is top of heart, find it on Amazon, anywhere books are sold, we will have a link to that in the show notes. And grant mueller.com is where you can go to learn about the coaching program. Let’s talk about coaching. So what does coaching mean to you?

Grant Muller 39:05
So in real estate, and in most of the world, training is confused with coaching a lot. So training is around learning tools, tactics, strategies, from another person who teaches us the method, we take that method, and we follow through with that method, hopefully to get similar results. In coaching, we believe that you have the answer to the problem. So in my coaching, and specifically High Performance Coaching, my job is to guide you to find your own truths. And sometimes those are emotional truth. Sometimes those are business truths. But I want you to help you find your own truth. And I believe that personal development is business development. Jim Rohn a very, very old time personal development guy used to say that and it’s so true, and we’re in a business where we actually get paid better When we improve ourselves What a blessing to be in that kind of business, if you’re a CPA, you don’t get to say that. So as we get we are the product that we offer the community. And so when we improve ourselves, we improve our product, we improve our business. And so in high performance coaching, we work through five big habit areas that have been proven through scientific study, and to be key components of high performance living and life. And high performance is around performing at a higher level in a sustained manner, while improving our relationships, and our wellness, so this is not peak performance, where we kill ourselves the hustle and grind. And then, you know, we end up petering out on the other side, because we’re exhausted, burnt out and not happy. That’s no fun. I like you know, my story, you know that I’ve been there done that. And I don’t want to go back there. So this is around living a fulfilled, inspired life. And then we happen to do really well financially at the same time.

D.J. Paris 40:59
Yeah, it’s kind of an all things, all things improve, I guess is always the, the intention, and always readjusting and recalibrating. I know that for me, like, recently, I have been doing too much service, stuff with respect to the real estate industry, I give too much of myself. And as a result, I’m a little bit out of balance. So it’s a good problem to have, it’s still a problem. So as a result, I have to read stuff as well. And so having a coach, I think it any part of your real estate journey, or just personal journey is is going to be critical, because you can have somebody who can see maybe the imbalances that that you’re currently stuck in, and everybody’s imbalanced at some some part of their life, right? No, no wheel is perfectly round. If it’s if it’s representing somebody’s entire life, there’s going to be bumps along the way. So it’s really nice, that since can’t smooth out all of our own bumps ourselves, which would be great if we could, but we can’t. So the good news is there’s people that can help us identify these bumps and smooth them help us smooth them out ourselves as well, which is through coaching. And so I am the biggest fan of having a coach. I mean, every professional athlete has a coach, and they’re already really good at their job. So I’m assuming that the rest of us need coaches as well. But yeah, let’s, let’s talk a little bit about that. So right now, it’s 2023. We’re halfway through a little bit past halfway through the year. And you know, let’s face it, it’s a tough year right now. It’s not the sky is not falling. So that’s good. There’s still business to be had, but it’s not quite as busy as it was in previous years. We’re all feeling that we all get it. Yes, it’s a little bit of a bummer. So what are what are grant? What are you sort of encouraging agents to do to stay productive stay positive to stay, but also realistic to also understand what what’s going on right now?

Grant Muller 43:05
There are many parts of that question. So you’re it’s a tougher year. And look, I’m I’m down from where I want it to be this year as well. So I’ll be super transparent about that,

D.J. Paris 43:17
by the way, by the way, everybody is. So yes, Grant is not alone. Yes, there’s exceptions. There’s a few people out there who are like my business is up, and 99% of us are struggling.

Grant Muller 43:29
I have I have a coaching client is having his best year ever. And I’m, I’m really proud of him. And I know I can see why he’s been building the momentum big time. And for me, you know, you don’t put out a book into the world and maintain great balance and all the other parts of your life. It just doesn’t happen. And that’s okay, I made that conscious decision. So the first thing about that rounding out conversation that you had is that in coaching, we make intentional decisions, rather than just letting things happen. So you know, if you’re going to take two weeks off from the gym, to push this big project through, so be it. That’s very different than looking back two weeks later and saying what happened in my life. And so we tried to be a little intentional about the trade offs that happen. But absolutely, then there needs to be trade offs. The second thing is when times get tough. I’ve always been taught and I always teach to look at the last 12 months of deals. And that makes sure you’re very clear about where that business has come from in its majority. If you’re if you have a fairly busy real estate practice, likely most of it is repeat and referral. Almost always is the case. Not always. But whatever that thing is whether it’s Zillow leads or its repeat and referral. Find ways to double down on that. So if I usually reach out to my people in my sphere once a quarter, I might add in an extra email I might make sure that I spend more time at lunch face to face with more people than I usually would, I might go a little deeper into my database than I usually would. But making sure that we’re taking massive action. So that’s number one. Number two, cutting back on expenses that aren’t necessary, and I am the president of the fanclub have expenses that aren’t necessary. You know, I think it might have to do with just my background of not, you know, living on the streets and not having everything for a while. So when I started making money, believe me, I want it if it’s pretty and, and fun and expensive, I want to buy it, but now’s not the time. And so understanding that, and the reason it’s not the time is not necessarily because you won’t make it through, although that could be the case. But more importantly, when we reduce the financial pressure for ourselves, then we don’t show up with commission breath. When we meet with clients, we have the ability to say no, I said, I said, No, thank you yesterday to a listing. You know, the seller said you have the best program, so and so as the best price, will you match the price? And I said, Thank you for asking, no, thank you. And I can do that, because I’ve reduced some of my expenses. And so I think when we reduce some of that pressure, we give ourselves some room to breathe. And then we can look at things logically and say last year, most of my business was repeating referral, I did it through three big client events, they were really expensive. So this year, instead of that, I’m going to reach out and do a wine club, I’m going to do a day at the park with without all the fancy stuff. Or I’m going to be together face to face with as many of these people as possible, or I’m simply going to text or Facebook Messenger and reach out and find out how people are. But in one way or another, we need to get into massive action, I’d love to say there was some easy button. But that’s just not the way it is we’ve got to get into some massive action, but in a clear, concise way with a plan. Rather than flailing. I see a lot of agents, unfortunately, that do nothing. Because it doesn’t feel like anything’s gonna make a difference, right? Because we have a short term problem with cash flow. And real estate isn’t a short term sales cycle. It’s a long term sales cycle. So the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. But the second best time is now so we have to get into massive action now. And I think what that does, I’ll give you an example. In my case, this year, I’m okay treading water. I’ve had some other big goals. I’m going to tread water this year. But I know that just the very act of all the momentum required to tread water this year, is going to give me a huge lift going into next year, because now I’ve got that massive action program in place. So as 6070 80,000 Realtors exit the business, my market share and your market share is going up without doing anything. But if we’re in massive action this year, will improve even more when we get some wind in our sales.

D.J. Paris 48:02
I was the other day with a top producer who was young, a young man he’s in his early 30s. I don’t know if that’s young anymore, but to me, it’s young.

Grant Muller 48:12
He’s young to me. Yeah. To me,

D.J. Paris 48:14
do you and me that’s young. And he was saying they were asking him? How do you what are you doing right now to step on the gas? You know, what, what are you doing to stay top of mind in the not top of heart necessarily, would grant could teach but just at least top of mind. He says you know what I do every day, here’s what I’m doing now is I’m doubling the amount of time I reply to Facebook and Instagram comments or posts. And I was like, Oh, that’s interesting. And I thought wonder why he’s doing that. And then I thought about it a bit. And he goes because it he explained it. He said because people post, typically on Facebook and Instagram, they post emotional parts of their lives, you know, typically victories, you know, things to celebrate birthdays, you know, events, whatever, special moments in their life, vacations, whatever. And so he goes, I want to celebrate with my clients. So I have to know what what they’re doing. And they’re going to post mostly, or post on Facebook or wherever. So I want to let them know that I acknowledge that, that I see that they just did this great thing. And I want to celebrate with them. So and this is his personality, and he’s like so I write 30 comments a day. He goes I’ve you know, so many Facebook friends and Instagram friends, and I’m constantly just, you know, giving validation, but he’s like it’s authentic. Because I authentically I’m excited that they went to Cancun or they just had this fancy dinner or their child just you know, was in a recital or something. And he’s like, yeah, he goes, that’s where I’m stepping on the gas. And he goes, I do it every single day. I do minimum of 30 comments and he goes in a year or two, I will have more business than I know what to do with and I said I love the right.

Grant Muller 49:53
I love that and when you when you jump in that big, you can have the you can have have the confidence that he has to say, I know that this is going to come through a couple of things you said there I have to jump in on. One is, he’s allowing others to be seen, just like we were saying, he’s giving them the gift of being seen. So number one, one great way to take that, from a top of mind to a type of heart tactic is when we and by the way, I love that he’s doing a genuinely if it wasn’t genuine, it wouldn’t work. Yeah, it would be a bad idea. So if that’s not you find another way. Right? Because Because that’s not for everybody. But one of my favorite things to do. And admittedly, I don’t do it as often as I could. But one way to go from top of mind to top of heart is to make the comment. Congratulations, DJ, awesome on, you know, Mitzi passing this six week on obedience school, your dog, I’m making something up now, you know, great job. But the next level, the double heart level is then put it take it out of social media and put it in the real world. So send a handwritten card that says congratulations on Mitzi on graduating from the six week obedience school thing. And when we do that, and take it out of social media and into the real world, it takes things to a whole nother level. Because there’s so much friction in sending out actual mail. People know what a pain it is to get a stamp and get an envelope, put it all together and write the card. But when you can, when you can create a system for that friction, so it’s not high friction on your end. Ie I’ve got a whole card library over here. You just dash out a card stamp that goes in the mail. It’s easy for you, but they can’t believe it. When they get it. They’re like, Wow, he really cares.

D.J. Paris 51:38
You might even bring a tear to their eye through a simple act of a greeting card. non real estate related Hey, saw you did or accomplished X or whatever. Congrats, so proud of you. You know, whatever. Just, I see you, I acknowledge you. I’m on I’m in your camp, and I want to celebrate with you or be there for you when you need help. That is what every human being on the planet wants.

Grant Muller 52:06
Yeah. And it’s it’s it. There’s no branding, please. No logos? Nope.

D.J. Paris 52:10
No, it sent me the three people’s names of No, don’t do that.

Grant Muller 52:15
And then if you want to take it, and everything is in degrees, everything, everything, everything that I think about is at different levels. So then, I always like to ask the questions, and then how can i What’s the next level of that. And the next level might be this will be ridiculous if your dog passed a beat in school. But let’s say that it’s a, let’s say your daughter just graduated in high school. Now I’m reaching out going DJ, I don’t know how you did that. I don’t have any kids. But I can only imagine 18 years of getting a kid all the way through high school. When can we go out to dinner to celebrate. And now I’m taking you out to dinner, we’re spending time together, we might talk a little bit about your daughter, but really we’re just gonna catch it’s an excuse to take you to dinner. And it’s an easy excuse. And it’s just a way to honor you as another human being who’s done something really incredible in this world. And so it feels good to me. And it feels good to you. And hopefully your daughter comes along too. It’s just it’s that’s top of heart. That’s all top of heart is I make my living that way. I’m not the most social person. So you don’t have to do a lot of this. But do it with people that you actually click with them. You look at your calendar, and you’re excited about how you’re going to spend your day you’re not thinking, Oh no, it’s another two hours of prospecting time this afternoon. I don’t want to do that’s just no way to live.

D.J. Paris 53:30
Now. It’s I’m calling my friends and seeing how they’re doing. It’s amazing. Yeah. And that what a great place to wrap up this particular episode. Grant, I could talk to you all day about this. And we definitely will have you back to talk more in depth. But the book is called top of heart guys. This is the key. Again, Grant said something very important earlier. So wouldn’t it be cool if you were just seeing as a guy that they have to meet? And oh, by the way, you also do real estate, right? So that’s kind of Grant’s whole thing is like you can just be an authentically you. And people will want to obviously tell other people about you and help you in your business. But you have to make space for that. And you have to learn how to build those relationships. Grant is going to show you how and I want to also make one point about grants book. He has a foreword or a blurb at least by Bob Berg who is the king of referrals. This is the guy and he wrote a blurb for your book grant. So that is I can’t even imagine what kind of feather in that in your cap it is but it is a good feather. Bob berg is the man and if Bob Berg says that this is a book to read, it’s a book to read. So I want everybody to go out. I’ve read all of Bob’s books, I think so anything Bob tells me to read, I read and Bob says to read Grant’s book top of heart. We’ll have a link to it on in the show notes and also guys, you need a coach, get a coach now is the time go to grant mueller.com and grant will reach out to you and see if you guys can win We’re together in a coaching capacity. And on behalf of all of our audience, we want to thank grant for coming on our show today. We appreciate you. Thank you for spending time out of your crazy busy day to do this. And on behalf of grant myself, we want to also thank the audience for making it to the end of the episode. And please, the best way you can help us continue to grow is by telling a friend I think of one other realtor that’s struggling right now. Every realtors or most realtors are struggling right now. So send them a link to this episode keeping it real pod.com Every episode we’ve ever done could be streamed there. We’re on all the social channels. Find us there as well. Hit the subscribe button. Leave us a review. Let us know what you think of the show. We will see you on the next episode. Grant. Thank you so much. And we will we’ll see everyone next time. Thanks man.

Grant Muller 55:46
Thanks very much

Shelby Johnson the CEO of Five Pillars Nation and former military shares her great experience as military and her transition into a career in real estate. Shelby discusses the importance of rules, structure, discipline and chain of commands and how she leveraged them in her business in real estate. Shelby also discusses the importance of self-esteem and its role in managing clients.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Shelby Johnson can be reached here.

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
Do you struggle with structure and discipline? You probably do. Or at least I know I do. This episode is all about how to fix that. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solutions so that you can easily generate more business. There agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris. I am your guide and host through the show and in just a moment, we will be speaking with top producer and veteran Shelby Johnson. Before we get to Shelby, we have just a few announcements. First, please tell a friend about this podcast. That’s the best way to help us grow. We want to reach as many Realtors as possible. So just tell one friend, that’s all we ask. And also please leave us a review whatever podcast app you may be listening to this on. Let us know what you think of the show we really appreciate it helps us also get in front of more listeners. So that’s it guys. Let’s get to the main event, my conversation with Shelby Johnson.

Today on the show, my guest is Shelby Johnson from five pillars real estate with exp in Charlotte. Now, let me tell you more about Shelby Shelby. Now Shelby served in the army for six years before diving into real estate full time as both a broker and an investor in 2018. Now out of the gate, she was recognized at the Keller Williams Rookie of the Year all of North and South Carolina, and I’m gonna guess there’s 1000s of Keller Williams agents in both of those states. In fact, I know there is. So that is a huge, huge deal. She close to 48 transactions in her first year. Let’s just pause and marvel at how amazing that is. Everyone listening knows how amazing that is. Then she went on to move she moved on to create a traditional team called five pillars Realty Group, which and I’m gonna, you’re gonna have to pause again, because I’m gonna give you a number, it’s gonna blow you away. So after her first year, she created this group and then closed 500 additional transactions, in fact, more than 500 in the inner first two and a half years, insane. In the mid 2021. Five Pillars evolved out of the traditional team and to what it is today, which is now called five pillars nation, how exciting to learn about how Shelby has done this and what she can do to help you replicate the same sort of success. Now I want everybody because she is a coach as well. So I want I’m sorry, I have a little bit more to read. For Shelby My apologies. Outside of building her agent business, Shelby was flipping acquiring rentals. She was in the investment space, both short and long term rentals. She founded pints and properties, which is a nationwide real estate investors group and is passionate about helping real estate agents use their active income to build passive income portfolios as well. And for anyone listening. If you aren’t familiar with the investor side of real estate, it’s really a great opportunity. Because at some point in your career, someone will come to you and say I want to invest in real estate. And it’s good to really have that skill set so that you can of course, accommodate that agent as opposed to just referring it to someone else like the Shelby right. So it’s good that she can help teach you all that stuff and just how to be a really successful agent, even if you’re not on the investment side. Because her team and her done. I mean 500 transactions in two and a half years is insane. So amazing. Anyway, follow her on her on Instagram, which is that Shelby show, we will have a link to that in the show notes and also visit our website, five pillars nation.com And she has code thing that she does. And she even has free coaching as well. So check her out. I am such a big fan of you, Shelby, I just learned about you. I’m already a fan. But I’m excited that you’re on the show. So welcome.

Shelby Johnson 5:11
Thank you so much for having me, man, that was such an intro. Thank you, I

D.J. Paris 5:15
get really excited. I just, you know, it’s funny, I was just thinking about this, I’ve done about 500 of these episodes. And I get so excited, because I just love talking to people that are really doing exceptional things. And, you know, maybe it’s some insecurity of myself of not feeling as successful as my guests. But I liked that I liked that I get to talk to people like you, first of all, you served our country. So on behalf of all of our audience, thank you for that, that is the most important, you know, one of the most important things that we don’t often remember as, as US citizens. But um, thanks for that. And then also, you know, you have just had incredible success very early and quickly in real estate. So how did you get into real estate? You know, we know you were in you were in the army. And then did you come straight from the army into into real estate? Yeah, I

Shelby Johnson 6:08
did. So I served in the army for six years. And it was, my first duty station was lovely, I loved it, you know, I was going to be in the Army forever. And then I changed duty stations to another installation. It used to be called Fort Bragg, it recently changed to Fort liberty, North Carolina. And I just had a completely different experience that led me to considering other options. I’m like, Hey, like, I don’t have to do this for the rest of my life. And I would ideally have something where I had control over my time. And, you know, my income would directly reflect my paycheck as opposed to having to work, you know, years to hit the next benchmark to make the amount of money. And so I just started looking around for, you know, what could check those blocks. And it was real estate investing was actually what I stumbled upon first through Robert Kiyosaki, and

D.J. Paris 7:00
Oh, sure. passive residual income. Yeah,

Shelby Johnson 7:04
yes. And then bigger pockets. And so I had this idea, I was like, oh, I’ll just buy rental properties, and then I will make money in my sleep, and I’ll just, you know, ride off into the sunset and never have to talk to a human again, right. That’s really funny. If you have actually been in real estate investing, you know, that it’s not like that. But that was the original dream. And I decided to get my real estate license as a means to generate the active income to pour straight into my investment. So, and I what I didn’t realize at the time, because you know, a lot of people getting their license, they’re just like, oh, I’ll just, you know, I’ll just open some doors, show some houses and clothes and make a lot of money. And I didn’t realize it was like, No, it’s a whole app business. You know?

D.J. Paris 7:50
It is, and it is, it is funny, it’s, it’s, it’s a lot of people get into real estate as as agents, or like you said it on the investors on the investor side, you know, and not always understanding the amount of work and effort it takes. Because really, it’s no different really than many startup businesses. You know, there’s this learning curve, there’s time to generate, you know, enough income to keep the business afloat. There’s lead generation, there’s all of these, these pieces of really any business, that and it’s sometimes you know, the schools who teach the pre licensing classes, they don’t really talk about any of that. They just go, let’s help you pass the test. You know, the rules and regs stuff, which you forget about anyway, at the moment you pass the test. But, but this idea of really understanding like, it’s kind of a trial by fire in a lot of ways. And you You did it, and you were very successful. I’m curious, I’ve had a lot of military or ex military on the show who have gotten into real estate. And, you know, I am sure there are some non success stories. But boy, there’s a lot of success stories. I suspect. This is a guest, but I suspect the discipline and the structure of being in the military, I’m guessing was really helpful to then when you’re on your own and not really accountable. You know, assuming that you don’t have somebody looking over your shoulder every few minutes going, what are you doing right now, most Realtors don’t have that in their have to really be self sufficient and self starters. Did what you know, can you talk about what you learned in the military? And were you able to bring some of those skills over into real estate?

Shelby Johnson 9:27
Yeah, my military experience was absolutely huge in the ability for anything that I’ve done so far. And I didn’t even realize it at the time, like how impactful it would be for me. But like you said, with the discipline and the structure, for sure, that was a thing I was already used to getting up early and attacking my day. And also the military instills the sense of urgency within you because there’s so much there’s so many levels of like, you know, leadership and ranks and there’s like a lot of pressure all the time and Little bit of fear from getting yelled at or, you know, getting negative counseling or whatever. And so I still had that, like, deeply ingrained in me. So like, whether or not I had anyone over my shoulder, there was just the sense of urgency like, I have to do this, like now, like yesterday. And the other piece of that urgency also is the fact that in the military, you can’t, if you care at all about your survival, you can’t say I couldn’t do it, or I couldn’t figure it out, or it didn’t work. And so that idea of like, there is a way you just have to find it, no, is not an answer. That is incredibly helpful. Your one

D.J. Paris 10:41
it is, boy, I don’t know that anyone’s ever said that exact thing on our show. And if they have I forgotten it, but that is a brilliant thing to really, it’s simple. But this idea of learning, you know, learning to how to process and know, and learning what to know, really, really is and having it not feel like the worst possible thing to happen. And also, I mean, it’s like, I always think really successful people just fail more. So they’re just used to the nose and I say fail, I mean, they just don’t get their outcome most of the time, but they just keep going. And of course, military works all on, you know, there’s, there’s a chain of command and you are not to really question and I kind of it’s kind of like, I don’t even know, now in this country, we sort of like you get to question everything, and you get to just, you know, be an individual, and there is no rules. But in the military, there are rules, there’s really specific reasons for that. And it’s not because they want to control and punish, they just want a really effective military to actually keep the rest of us safe. And so there are processes that are tried and tested. And and you have to just trust that the people you know, that have put these rules in place, know what they’re doing. And you’re right, you don’t get to probably say no, as much as you do, you know, outside of the military, especially when someone’s asking you to do something. But there’s a reason for that. And it’s not because they’re evil people. They’re like, No, we know how to do this. And we want to teach you so that we can keep you safe. And you can keep everyone else safe. So I love that. And I imagine, you know, yeah, I’ve never met somebody who is ex military who was like, you know, I just can’t seem to be as I’m not a self starter anymore. It’s like, they all just learned it. So well. So I think amazing. And you’re right, like, again, not not hearing No, just going okay, well, I’ll figure out a different way around this. And the cool part about real estate, there’s a million ways to do it.

Shelby Johnson 12:33
Oh, my God, so much. It is the land if you’re creative, the world is yours in real estate, which is just such a beautiful thing. And one of the things I love about it so much, it’s like there’s never one way to skin the cat. There’s like 75 The the military in general, like besides those aspects, though, there was also the aspect of the organizational side of it. So like I worked in human resources, and I oversaw 700, you know, men within a soldiers, but at the time it was infantry was all guys. So it really was men. And I was in charge of seeing people come into the unit, leave the unit, go on deployments, redeploy award ceremonies, promotions, retirement ceremonies, and then also like, making sure that that aligned with all of the other operational things that were happening in the unit. And so the fact that I could, you know, I worked with the operations and looking ahead on the calendar and making milestones and benchmarks and sticking to timelines and the calendar being like a Tetris, you know, all of this stuff, directly ties into real estate, in addition to in the military, that people move duty stations all the time that they, yes, they change duty stations. And so everything has to be documented. Because when you leave, oftentimes, there’s not even a handover. So your replacement will come two weeks after you’ve left. And if you don’t have your operating procedures documented, so that way someone could pick it up on a third grade level and figure out how to do it. It’s unacceptable. So those were things that really helped, you know, documenting so that way I could automate and leverage and use my time wisely, those really impacted throughout everything that I’ve done so far in real estate.

D.J. Paris 14:16
Yeah, it makes perfect sense is having the standard operating procedures and this this tight, tight organization, so that things don’t fall through the cracks. Because, you know, like you were saying, you know, somebody somebody leaves, you know, a particular area where they’re deployed, and then their replacement comes in, but it’s weeks later, and they’re million things that happened in those two weeks and you’re like, Okay, now I have to figure out you know, how to keep this all all straight, it kind of similar in real estate, right? Like, deals fall through, things happen. And you know, it’s or even just, you close a transaction, and then you’re like, well, that person is probably not going to buy or sell another property for seven years or whatever the statistic is these days. How do I make sure that they don’t forget it? About me during that time, but I want to find out. What do you think was the main reason that you got to 48 transactions in your first year? I mean, you know, that’s insanely impressive. I don’t suspect there’s any magic sort of formula that you know that no one else knows. Maybe there is. But you know, what do you think made that difference for you? Why do you think you did that? Well,

Shelby Johnson 15:22
yeah, that one of the reasons is because I didn’t know how good it was when I was doing it. And that is one of the things I didn’t go in with the expectation of like, you know, an average Asian and a good first year closes, like, I don’t know what like six, I actually

D.J. Paris 15:36
maybe six, yeah, maybe, maybe six. And so I just

Shelby Johnson 15:39
went in knowing that I was gonna go absolutely as hard as I could. And the results followed from like, the input of the work, but I didn’t realize until literally, they were like, Oh, you’re a rookie of the year. I’m like, what? So I think that honestly, having my mind’s not constricted to what was possible. Helped. That was one thing. And then there’s, there’s, yeah, there’s, there’s a slew of other other reasons. Like I stayed in the local city that I knew all of the people that I had a relationship with, within my organization, they already liked me and trusted me and I was so annoying on the way out, like, I’m getting into real estate, tell everyone, you know, here’s business cards are like, so annoying. Um, that was a piece. And then I think the the cash, I don’t know, there’s, there’s a million pieces, there’s the sphere of influence that I had, the way that I aggressively tapped into it, the organization and the ability to, so what I did, also, I know I’m a little all over the place, but like, I, I am very impatient. I want, I don’t want to spend the year learning how to do something, I want to learn it in a condensed manner as efficiently as possible. So I, after a frickin day of going to my Keller Williams class and sitting in like, the class, that was a nice little slow pace, and we learned some things, whatever it was like, this is not going to cut it. So I went to the the owner, what are they called it Keller Williams, I don’t know, the like CEO, basically. And I was like, who are the top five agents in the firm, and I got their contact information, ran them down, I was so annoying, but into like a nice, pleasant way. Because, you know, new agents are a dime a dozen. They don’t pay attention. The first time you ask, it’s the 12th time that you asked to shadow them, that they’re like, Fine, just get in my car. And so I did. I literally shadowed every single one of them. And I asked, I pulled as many systems as I could from them. And I let go, the ones that I didn’t think worked for me and I implemented that.

D.J. Paris 17:43
I would what how much so by talking to those top five agents, and again, this is just a guess. But you’ll you would know this better than I could guess. How much time do you think you saved in? I mean, are we talking years maybe?

Shelby Johnson 17:57
I would say so I’m talking year especially since like, they were so kind once I first when I finally got around them and show them that I was like really valuing every minute, every second that they put into me, literally they sent me the email templates for contractor clothes, they sent me checklist. Here’s my buyers packet. Here’s my listing packet, like I I learned more in that first month than most agents learn in their first five years, I swear.

D.J. Paris 18:25
Yeah, no, you’re right. And, you know, this whole show was was predicated on the idea that top producers are actually really generous with with their processes, their systems. I wasn’t sure that was going to be the case, when I started the show, like five or six years ago, and I turned out I go well, I just hope people like are willing to be on it. Well, now I mean, we haven’t had to ask for a guest in years because they they want to be on the show. They they they appreciate giving back. You are you are obviously no exception to that you’re doing the same thing. And it is it is amazing. If you just ask But you’re right, you do sometimes have to ask a few times, and maybe more than a few times, because top producers their biggest challenge is time. And honestly, they don’t have time for yet. So you really have to make it a priority. To really, really just like just like how you would prospect a client. You know, like, you know, you’re saying obviously you don’t want to be super annoying, but you want to be pleasantly annoying in a sense where you’re like, you’re like No, I really respect you. I just want to take you out for 15 minutes for coffee or something. And even even if you just do that once a week, you’ll probably get just incredible like you were saying you got all sorts of handouts and guides and checklists and gosh, I can’t even imagine how much time that is. And you also worked at a at a firm Keller Williams is got some of the very best training on the planet. I mean, we you know, it’s kind of what they’re known for Gary Keller and that whole thing and so you’re already getting good training or like I’m gonna go out and find other stuff to really applicable stuff. Yeah. And so really

Shelby Johnson 19:57
something that like helped though if you you know if listeners You’re sitting there like, I’m gonna do that. I think that this tweak and how you ask is made it made a huge difference. It’s not, hey, will you teach me? Hey, you know, can? It’s Can I just sit and listen? You don’t even have to look at me. You don’t even have to talk to me once. Can I just sit while you make your calls? Can I guess it’s the difference. It’s like, I don’t want to teach you man. Like they’re thinking I learned this on my own. It’s not my responsibility to teach you. But you can sit there, that’s fine. Sure. Yeah.

D.J. Paris 20:29
Or like if someone’s doing an open house, say, Hey, can I just shadow you at the open house? I’ll go around handing out refreshments or something. But I just want, I just want to hear how you talk to people who you don’t? Yeah, you’re, you are so so right. And what I think you’ll most of our listeners would find, if they feel self conscious about asking is you to talk to your managing broker and say, Hey, can you help make an introduction to me? Again, I don’t want to be annoying to these agents. But I would love the opportunity just to like be a fly on the wall. Listen, maybe maybe they even take you on a listing presentation, right? Like I just want let them. I mean, I can’t imagine what you would have learned on a listing presence. It must have been just like, well, this is pretty awesome. Like you must have just learned. That’s amazing.

Shelby Johnson 21:17
Yeah, it was super helpful. Love them to this day. All of them are out there still slinging. So. But yeah, I would say that that was really helpful.

D.J. Paris 21:27
Let’s talk about systems because you scale, you didn’t just stop at 48 transactions, you scaled to, you know, hundreds of transactions per year. So what how do you think you made that because there’s only so much time you have and there’s only you know, so much of anything. So you have like you were saying you have to leverage resources time, you know, what are some of the systems that really made a huge shift for you to allow you that to get to that next massive level?

Shelby Johnson 21:55
For sure. Yes, the fact that I immediately had systems from these top performing agents that I was able to tweak and make my own and implement that was me still, as a solo agent, you know, I was still doing every piece of the puzzle by myself. That one of the big pieces that was my first like real step up, was hiring the transaction coordinator. And not just I actually hired and fired to before I got to the one that it was actual true leverage, you don’t have that fear in the back of your mind, what’s falling through? Are they telling people the wrong thing, like when you finally find the true piece of leverage that lifts it all off your shoulders, and then that piece was huge. And at the time, that transaction coordinator owned her own business. And she was managing several agents files, but she and I hit it off. And I think there’s a lot that goes with that, too. It’s like, you know, respecting communication being the agent that she wants to work with to not just you work for me working together. And because of this, by the end of that first year, it’s when I was starting the team. And I asked her, I was like, Hey, you are amazing. I love working with you. What would it take for you to be mine? Forever, leave the business and five come with me, you know, let’s build the paint the whole vision. And she did. And so that having an she was an agent for years longer than I was before she even started a transaction coordinator business, she was super detail oriented, where I’m more of like, sales and vision and all that stuff. So our powers combined, had a really good foundation for being able to take on more and more volume, and also have a lot of value to provide new agents as they joined our organization moving forward.

D.J. Paris 23:45
That’s amazing. Yeah, I feel like you just said so much there. No, no, no, no, no, I’m just processing it. It’s, it’s, it’s so it’s so impactful. This idea of it, we should also just mention what a transaction coordinator is just for anyone who isn’t familiar, which is basically you’re hiring somebody, they could be a virtual transaction coordinator that could be somebody local, like Michelle be, you know, was an agent that that wasn’t practicing and but knew everything. Some of the challenges with virtual transaction coordinators is that a lot of times, they’re from other countries, and they represent, you know, realtors in many different states or many different markets in the United States, which means they have to know a lot of different markets, and it’s just harder for those agents or sorry, those trends, transaction coordinators to really fully know exactly what you would need as as you know, the realtor to help their clients. So not all transaction coordinators and not all transaction coordinator companies are created equal. You as you said you hired and fired a few of them because I’ve seen some agents who just have the amazing transacts quarters and others are like you know, it’s not that helpful. So but but at Every successful really, truly successful agent I know pretty much has one has a transaction coordinator. So I mean, if you think about it, they they really do more than just doing the paperwork, they can create timelines for you, they can remind you, Hey, it’s 10 days before closing, here are the things we need to do. They remind the client, it’s a lot of just process.

Shelby Johnson 25:20
It was everything. And especially since exactly like you said, so the transaction coordinator, she was an agent in North Carolina, which was my state, and she knew the contract inside and out, and was like, over communicating with communicating with the clients. And the thing that I think is really cool is that I was so proud that she was an extension of my business, I was able to manage expectations with the client and truly mean it when I say hey, look, after we go under contract you get to work with her name is Megan, you get to work with Meghan, and she is a mazing, she is going to handle you know, work with you from contracts, I’m going to be there every step of the way. But I promise you want her on the timelines, you want her on the paperwork, because she gets it. And by able to manage the expectations there. And then she grabs it, and she outperforms even my raving excitation and like that extension of your business. And now Shelby and Meghan are phenomenal together. Does that make sense?

D.J. Paris 26:21
Absolutely. And transaction coordinators can be as inexpensive as I’ve seen, you know, TCCs, pay a charge like $300 on the low end, probably up to like 1000 bucks, I’m not even sure what what the most expensive ones paid. But even if you were paying $1,000 per deal, if you could save 20 hours of work, that might be worth it, you know, it’s certainly worth it for $300, I think it’s probably still worth it. If it if it’s $1,000, whatever it is, I mean, it allows you to not get bogged down, unless you like being bogged down in those steps if you’re an agent, and that’s what you do best, great. But then you’ll probably need to have somebody help you with the prospecting and all the other things. So you can’t do everything right or you, you can try to do everything, but you’re not going to do everything well. And, you know, figuring out what you what you don’t enjoy, or what you’re not good at is where you can off offload it and transaction coordination. Coordinators are the easiest, most obvious way to just free up some of your time. And you know what, it’s worth the money, it just is, in my opinion. So we tell all of our agents, not all of them do, but we tell please get a transaction coordinator, like we’ll help you the best we can. And we do help a lot. But you really want somebody who just is this is all they do. So

Shelby Johnson 27:40
I totally agree. And for new agents, if you’re out there thinking and you’re like, Man, I can’t, you know, I don’t want to pay for a transaction coordinator or whatever. This has worked really well for some of our agents where they’ll actually hire a transaction coordinator on their very first transaction, and then pay them a little offer to pay them a little extra and be like, Hey, this is my first one. I know you know exactly what you’re doing. Like if I give you a little bit of extra, you know, money, is there any way that you could like handhold me and teach me throughout the process, and the right transaction coordinator will teach them way better than you know, the Rockstar agent who already uses a transaction coordinator so probably forgotten how to go to contract to close anyway. So that’s been working really well.

D.J. Paris 28:24
God, I love that that is so that is so smart. Another thing too is ask the top agents in your office who their transaction coordinators are. And you know, that way you don’t have to, you know, spend as much time you know, getting going through, you know, ones that maybe you know, haven’t been a referral or so I love that. So transaction coordinator. I mean, guys, I know it sounds so silly. It’s so simple. But it really is you just got to think about where am I spending a bunch of time on my business. That’s not really what I like doing. That’s not really what I’m best at. And if if those those two things can be offloaded, you’re going to you’re going to be you know really, really going to have a lot more more freedom and fun because you just can’t wear every single hat effectively like you can wear some hats, but don’t try to wear all the hats because none of us are good at everything. Despite my what my mother told me growing up that I was being good at anything I do turns out she’s was wrong. But good retention was good. But turns out her boy can’t do everything despite despite me wanting to be good at everything. What what other systems are you utilizing? I’ll hear I’ll ask you have a better question. What systems are you using to stay in touch with your clients after a sale because this is a huge opportunity that my parents you know you you work in North Carolina but in Charlotte North to North Carolina I forget because I used to go to South Carolina so often I only think South Carolina because my parents had a place in North Myrtle Beach and when they sold that place, reason I’m bringing this up is took me years because it was kind of just bad time in the market and they went through a bunch of real Tourism finally somebody got it sold. And like a year or two later, not even two years. One year later, I asked my dad, I was like, Oh, hey, by the way, who was that agent? Because I think I had a referral, maybe for the agent out there. And my dad was like, I don’t remember. He’s like, I can figure it out. I can go back and like, and I go, You’re kidding. He remembered, my dad is a really smart guy. And he’s not a he’s not like somebody that just wouldn’t think about. He was like, I don’t, I don’t really remember. And I thought, boy, what, what a what a terrible thing for that other agent to like, did a great job. My parents were like, so happy that they got the place sold. And now they don’t even remember that person’s name. Crush it. And that’s a missed opportunity for that agent. Now, my parents don’t live there. So okay, maybe there’s a little bit of like, well, they live in Illinois. So maybe they’re not going to buy another property. But they might know people that are buying in that area are selling. So what do you do to sort of make sure your clients don’t forget about you?

Shelby Johnson 30:54
Yeah, so back in the day, I don’t do this anymore. I’m actually not closing transactions at the moment. But one of the other main pieces of leverage that I immediately implemented was an operations manager, or ops. And so she took all the systems that I was doing internally, and made them a team wide system to execute for all the other agents, which was really helpful because I, my first year, I was an Excel girl from from the army, I had all my people on Excel, I knew my little. And even that’s like, where I thrived. And I knew, you know, I need to do a CRM, I need to do our CRM, I wasn’t doing the CRM. So our ops, thank goodness, we had it set up. So that way, when the contract would close, the transaction coordinator would have a whole handover process with our ops. And they would, you know, take the client, and if they weren’t already in the CRM, put them in the CRM and put on the, you know, one week, check in one month, check in six month, check in happy home aversary In a year, and then also add us add them to our local events. So one of the things that we’ve done, we had the CRM but really baseline. But we invite people to our local events, we did the pints of properties once a month. And I love events as a way to constantly invite people to come hang out with you. It’s an in person drip campaign, they’re reminded in a non salesy way that you exist, and you are the real estate person. So we did that. And then we also did socials. So I really love social media as a way to nurture I have this whole thing about like, lots of agents will use it as a way to like, generate new leads. But to me, it’s really like social media, for most agents is a cultivation, it’s a nurture, it’s a reminder, as opposed to like fresh leads is a whole nother conversation. But those were kind of the three main things. We had the CRM in person events, and then social media.

D.J. Paris 32:49
That’s awesome. And we should also talk about, I want to talk about five pillars coaching, because this is you know, you’re basically taking the systems that you’ve put together, and really helping other agents kind of learned from, from your, all your knowledge. And so tell us tell us about what five pillars is and how you help agents.

Shelby Johnson 33:07
Yeah, so five pillars, is is founded on all of the systems that we use in our traditional team. So all of the systems that you know, I built your one, and they evolved over the years with our amazing transaction coordinator, Operations Manager and all these agents who were constantly providing feedback to adjust and evolve with the times. And it worked well for traditional get Millionaire Real Estate Agent Gary Keller model team. And then when I didn’t want to do that team model anymore for a whole nother conversation. I was like, we have all these tools and systems. What if we were able to, instead of charge 50%, for for doing all of the overhead? What if we were able to provide all of these systems to the agents, not take any splits and allow them to build their own businesses in the way that made sense for them. The other thing that we did when we changed the model is we had we had transaction coordinators, listing coordinators, we had a whole staff, and I helped them start their own businesses. So that way, the agents in turn, could have the systems to build their empires, and the same leverage that the team was paying for before now they could hire out directly and cut out the team as the middleman. So everyone got more money, but everyone got to keep the same systems and run their own play. Does that make sense?

D.J. Paris 34:32
Absolutely. No, that makes perfect sense. And if anyone is interested in getting some coaching, you do have you have a community that they can join, you have coaching that you offer? Can you just tell us a little bit about sort of how that works?

Shelby Johnson 34:46
Yeah, so the community is where agents go to stop being agents and start being business owners. So we’re all about building an actual business where you know the gold at the end of the rainbow is it sellable. If if they do want to sell, whereas most agents, we just live in this constant state of like chaos, and whack a mole. And so the whole intent is it’s a community of entrepreneurs who are building their own empires, alongside peers. And the way it’s set up is we have classes throughout the month on the different pieces of building a real businesses. And we also have what we call pods, which within our community, their small groups of peers, four to five people. And there’s like a schedule, they go through with goals and accountabilities. So they, it’s kind of like a self sustaining incubator for entrepreneurs. Does that make sense?

D.J. Paris 35:38
It does, because I think, you know, even more so than not learning how to be a great agent by going through the licensing classes, which I think all of us know, is not the purpose of the licensing class. But then, you know, you’re you’re thrust into becoming an agent, you join a firm, hopefully, there’s some good training, but the training is mostly going to be around how to find business, close deals, you know, it’s going to be about how to be how to do production. But it’s not necessarily about how to actually run a business. And that’s a totally different skill set. And quite honestly, I find that that, that, that those skills, unless you come from a family of all entrepreneurs, and you just sort of know that world, it’s a totally different world and a differently different skill set. And it’s not always intuitive. In fact, it’s oftentimes counterintuitive, right? Right. So so this is where I think we think about oh, I need training for like being a great realtor. But you also need training about how to actually treat it like a business. So I think it’s probably the biggest missed opportunity for agents out there, like agents know how to get realtor training, because there’s so many great sources and places and, and, you know, Shelby’s got got great training as well. But that’s actually not that uncommon. There’s lots of training facilities, but to actually learn how to be an entrepreneur in real estate. And more importantly, she said, something that I should have highlighted, I’m going to highlight it now, Shelby said something about making creating a sellable business 99% of Realtors do not have a sellable business, maybe 99.9%. So Shelby actually wants to teach you how to create something that will continue to add value and continue to be something that you can get paid on either indefinitely, or you can sell it at some point, somebody, this is not the what most agents know how to do. And it’s not the kind of business that they set up. And they can go their entire career 30 plus years, and still be successful, but not have a sellable business. So this is an incredible thing to actually, you know, give you almost sort of something to consider as like almost a retirement kind of thing, where you can actually take all this great work that you’ve done over your career and actually then make it there’s, you could assign a value to it and sell it.

Shelby Johnson 37:52
Yeah, exactly. And that’s something that I actually, it took me a long time to realize, because my first couple years of going through agent life, it was exactly what you said, it’s like I’m doing the things, I’m doing all the agent things. But what I didn’t realize is that there’s like, you know, you have to have a strategy within your business and like and development for your company, and you have to have, like, a marketing is an actual whole piece of the business that you need to develop into a systematic machine that can repeatedly bring in business into your business like, and, you know, most agents, when it’s like, Hey, I’m gonna go lead gen, and they pick up their phone, and they call five people or they post once on social media, and they’re like, I did it. And it’s like, if you’re building an actual business, if you go out and you talk to any real business, they have like a marketing budget, and they have a whole team dedicated to strategy and, and it’s just thinking about it from the lens of an actual business will totally twist in in a good way, the way that you think about your agent life and and the potential in what it holds for you in the future.

D.J. Paris 39:00
Yeah, it makes makes perfect sense. And so this is a it’s a good, you know, thinking like an entrepreneur entrepreneurs, typically start businesses, and then they also have an exit strategy. That was the thing that I didn’t know, when I started studying entrepreneurship was, oh, yeah, there’s this whole thing called an exit strategy where you actually, maybe you don’t maybe you want to do this forever. And you just want to do it until you till you fall over and they put you in the ground, and that’s fine. But for those of us that have like this idea of we want to retire or we want to pass on and maybe do this for a certain amount of time, and then move on, you know, you really have to have some pretty serious processes in place to be able to market the business to make it sellable. And then also to create so much value, that people will come to you and say I want to buy this business. And that’s again, a whole different level of skill that people like Shelby can teach you shall be right now, you know, it’s tricky time in the market. You know, rates are still higher than anyone would like, even though historically it’s not so bad. But, you know, in the short term, it feels Looks like they’re really high lending rates, of course, inventory tends to be down in most, most markets. So it’s an easy time to get discouraged, maybe even a little depressed. What are you telling your agents? Or what are you encouraging them to do? While the markets a little tricky right now and just keeping them everybody motivated and working?

Shelby Johnson 40:21
I think that this is the best time for them to double down, because of exactly what you said, it’s a lot of agents, the ones who are not so sure one foot in one foot out, are gonna get out, which is fan tastic.

D.J. Paris 40:34
It’s actually a great thing for everyone else.

Shelby Johnson 40:36
Oh, my gosh, it’s so great, because now those sales that they would have gotten, you know, from the few sales that’s out for grabs. And if you’re able, in your in your market, to be able to double down on building out your business, and especially marketing, in general, just eat away at the market share, get as much as possible, because when if slash when the market does turn, you will absolutely explode. So I think that now is the time if you’re in it, you friggin go hard. And if you’re not in it, please, just goodbye. That’s also bad. But like, you know what I mean? Does that make sense?

D.J. Paris 41:15
It makes perfect sense. And I think that’s exactly what we’re seeing it now we have a holding company, which is for agents that aren’t actively practicing. And I think two years ago, we had were the largest holding company in Illinois, I think we had maybe 600 agents. And then when the last two years, no, in the last year, we’ve added 150 agents, these are people who fight us, they’re like I’m getting out. We’ve never had that many people join our holding company in a given year. So lots of people are getting out. And that is a great thing for everyone else. So they can gobble up market share. So what are you telling your agents to double down on? Like, what are they actually doing to help take advantage of the fact that some agents are stepping off the gas?

Shelby Johnson 41:55
Right? So a lot of them are just walking in their specific marketing strategy, and going hard at whatever that strategy may be. And that’s a part of like, within five pillars nation, we’re not we’re not teaching you one specific way. It’s like, hey, there’s many different lead generations and marketing strategies. And depending on your own personality type, what’s an authentic fit for you, what you actually will put the time and effort into, and sometimes you don’t know starting out. So it’s really good to like test in the beginning. But as soon as you find that thing, whether it is door knocking or, or cold calling or content creation, or maybe it’s you know, YouTube ads, or direct mail, it does not matter. Everything works. But when you find that authentic fit, and you put the blinders on, and go all in on whatever that marketing strategy is.

D.J. Paris 42:48
Yeah, you know, I’m glad you said that there are a lot of different ways that you can do it. And I think you’re so right about find something that you enjoy doing that you can step on the gas, whether it’s, you know, I talked to a compass agent the other day, who said, he goes, You know, every day, I make 30 comments on people’s posts on Facebook and their authentic comments, I used to spend about half an hour, I see when someone goes on vacation or whatever. And I write them say, Hey, that looks really fun, or a great dinner or whatever, you know, whatever. And he goes, I cannot tell you just doing that alone. It really, really works. You know, because people feel appreciated, they feel seen and heard. You’re not just somebody asking for business, you’re actually commenting on their lives. And it’s like, oh, yeah, of course, that makes sense. But he’s like, he gets really into that. And so for people that really enjoy celebrating other people’s successes, social media is the place to do it, right? Because it’s everything’s a win on social media with what people post, it’s, you know, it’s not usually like, well, I got into a fight with my husband this morning. And, you know, it’s like, my husband and I just went on this great vacation or whatever. So these are think are huge opportunities to demonstrate care that you actually care about the people in your life. So that’s just one way to do it. There’s a million different ways as well. But whatever you’re doing, yeah, double down on it right now, because most most agents are not. So if somebody wants to really learn about five pillars nation, join the community, maybe get some coaching, possibly even join your team, because you have you have agents in every single state. What are are you can take on agents from every state, I should say, what are you You know, what’s the best way they can learn about five pillars and get involved with you?

Shelby Johnson 44:29
Yeah, five pillars. nation.com is the website and on Instagram is where I would love to, you know, shoot me a DM or reach out because I would love to talk to you about whatever you have going on in your business and see if there’s something that’s something too, it’s like everything that we have is documented. So if there’s a piece of the puzzle that you’re missing, it’s just as easy as sharing, you know, a link. So I’m more than happy to share any of our tools and systems and it’s at the Shelby show with us. or scores on Instagram. And then also if you are out there and you’re thinking about starting a meetup meetups have been wildly successful for my business and branding and lead generation and all of these other things we didn’t talk about today, but pints and properties.com, you can check that out and any of those and I would love to talk to you. So hit me up.

D.J. Paris 45:20
Yeah, pints and properties.com is a great resource five pillars nation.com and the Shelby Scott show with two underscores, we will put links to all of that, that’s Instagram, by the way, we will put links to all of that in, in the show notes. So you can, you know, dip your toe in the water start following what Shelby’s doing. But guys, I mean, there’s got to be some part of everyone who’s listening is business that you’re like, I could really use like a different listing presentation, or I don’t have a good buyer checklist, or I don’t really know the pathway to closing and I could use some some tips. Shelby’s got all this stuff. And she’s just nice enough to just say here, let’s let’s teach you how to do it. And, you know, she’s all about giving, and she served our country. So let’s help serve her and help her business as well. And she’s just a heck of a nice person. So, I always love you know, when our guests are so generous, and they all are and so Shelby is no exception. So I want to support Shelby, I want you guys to support her. So definitely check out five pillars, nation.com, pines, and properties.com, and also the Shelby show on Instagram. And you will learn all things Shelby and gosh, she her and her team are just skyrocketing their success. And she is a lot of fun and very, very sweet. So please reach out to her. She loves to help. And she’s helping you right now by being on our show. So let’s help her. So Shelby, thank you so much for being on our show. I can’t wait to have you back in the future, we can do a deeper dive into some of these amazing systems that you’ve put together. But guys reach out to her ask her for help. She and her team will definitely be in touch with you, Shelby, on behalf of our audience, thank you, thank you, again, for your service to the country, and for your service to this industry and helping our listeners too. That’s really super appreciative. I don’t have all those resources to give our listeners so thankfully you do. So don’t ask me you guys, because I’ll just go I don’t know. But Shelby has everything that you need. So reach out to her. She’s super great. So on behalf of the audience, thank you, Shelby. And on behalf of Shelby and myself, thank you to the audience for sticking around to the very end, visit all the Shelby websites and follow her on Instagram, and reach out to her with what you need. And again, a thank you for making it to the end. Please tell a friend about this podcast. Guys, this is a tricky year. Let’s help all of our fellow realtors. Let’s give them you know, some more resources to help them stay afloat. In this tricky time. Send them a link to this episode. You can find us at keeping it real pod.com Every episode can be streamed live, or if they’re a podcast person, just pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real. Hit that subscribe button. And also, if you can leave us a review. Whether you’re on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you’re listening to this YouTube, let us know what you think of the show. We take that feedback very seriously. And we always are here to modify to get better and better to make you guys appreciate us even more. So let us know what we can do to help make the show better. And let’s also reach out to Shelby Shelby, thank you so much.

Shelby Johnson 48:12
Thank you so much. So fun being here. Thanks for having me.

Amanda McMillan with @properties Christie’s International Bucktown shares her story on how she got into real estate and describes what’s it like being a third generation realtor. Amanda discusses how she grew her business to become the top producing agent in her market. Amanda also talks about the importance of training and also learning how to trusting your intuition.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Amanda McMillan can be reached at 773.537.1300.

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
Today we’re going to be talking to not just the top 1% agent, but literally the top agent in her local market and do a deep dive into how she got there and how you can do the same. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads in interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris, I’m your guide. I’m your host, and I have a few quick announcements. We’re gonna be speaking in just a few moments with Amanda Mc Millan a top top top producer. But before we get to Amanda, just a couple of ways you can help us and we’ll help the show. Best way is two things. Two things. First is to tell a friend think of another agent that doesn’t yet know about our show probably somebody in your office or another agent you meet out there who would like to learn from top 1% producers tell them about the show. The second way to check out our sponsors they are the reason we can keep paying our bills and producing episodes we love our sponsors and the services and products they provide are truly amazing we vet them thoroughly to make sure that we only present you with services and products that would actually help you build your business okay guys, help us out those two ways thank you in advance and let’s get to the main event my conversation with Amanda McMillan.

Hey, today on the show we have Amanda McMillan from Chicago home partner here in Chicago with at properties Christie’s international real estate. Let me tell you more about Amanda. Now Amanda McMillan is the CEO of Chicago home partner which is an intimate group consistently ranking in the top 50 City agents for both number of transactions and volume. And I’m going to pause in reading Amanda’s bio here because there’s 46,000 Real estate agents in the Chicagoland area. So this is a very very big, amazing statistic that she is in the top 50. They have been the number one team in the app properties Bucktown location, which is also one of the very top Buck add properties locations for the last eight years and as close over 58 million in 2022. Now over the past two decades, Amanda has operated one of the most profitable real estate teams in Chicago, accumulating hundreds of outstanding reviews from raving fans across Google, Zillow, LinkedIn and Yelp, successfully navigating to financial crises, crises, one worldwide pandemic, the birth of two children hosting a BA he hosts a biweekly podcast at Chicago real talk.com. While remaining a social introvert at heart and maintaining a 95% referral based business. I would like everyone to visit Chicago, real talk.com And that’s going to redirect you to Amanda’s YouTube page. And I’m going to encourage you even if you’re not a Chicago realtor, most of you listening are not the reason I want you to subscribe is I want you to pay special attention to hear how Amanda talks about the real estate market. How she informs her clients. This Her videos are amazing. And she is just a wizard at this. So please go subscribe Chicago real talk.com. We will have a link to that in our show notes. Amanda, welcome to the show.

Amanda McMillan 4:47
Well, thanks so much for having me. It’s great to be here.

D.J. Paris 4:51
I’m excited to have you actually Amanda works very close to where I live. So we were just chatting about are sort of similar neighborhoods, but I am I’ve not met you before. So I’m so excited. Usually, I talk to people who live like far distances, and you’re actually about as close of a distance, but yet we haven’t met. So I’m super excited to have you on the show. And I think because you describe yourself as an introvert, you know, you’re not, you don’t make your presence quite as known as some of the other agents here locally, which I actually respect a lot, because I think that is the inclination of agents is to, you know, sort of yell it from the mountaintops, how great they we are, and I feel like you just you show don’t tell, which I think is even more impressive. So I just wanted to honor you for being you know, less in your face, I think, which I always respect agents that are a little bit more subtle. And you certainly fall into that category. I hope, I hope that comes off as a compliment. Cuz it’s like the best compliment I could think. I don’t know that I said it in the best possible way. But it is it is a compliment.

Amanda McMillan 5:57
No, absolutely. It’s been it’s been a heck of a ride. And yes, I, I will now say 21 years later, I tell people that I’m an extroverted introvert, because I’ve had 21 years in this business in which I’ve had to train myself to be a little bit more extroverted but, but I absolutely will be the person to say that the personality type that the media really shows out there doesn’t necessarily all always go hand in hand with a top producer.

D.J. Paris 6:21
Absolutely. And I would love to, you know, I think too, you know, ever since the pandemic started, and this is not in any positive thing about the pandemic. But one thing that did change is I think introverts in particular, people got used to working more remote, you know, doing zoom meetings. And I think for introverts that probably was like, so wonderful, because it allowed introverts to be in their sort of native environment, where they’re most comfortable, their energy is not being depleted, as much as and so I just think, like, never been a better time to be an introverted realtor and the fact that introverts are kind of people are learning more about that and learning more about what they need and how they process information differently. So I think that is super cool. I always, there’s so many times where I’ve talked to people wanting to become realtors, and they go, Well, I’m introverted. I don’t know if it’s a good fit. I’m like, oh, no, it’s a good fit. You just have to learn how to do things, you know, maybe differently than somebody who’s, you know, really out there. And, you know, being being super, super social. Not that you’re not of course, I’m sure you are.

Amanda McMillan 7:24
I’ve always actually said I think most consumers on the outside would be surprised to learn how many top producers are actually more introverted in their personality style than than the other.

D.J. Paris 7:36
I agree. That’s almost been not every I would say more than half of the top producers that I’ve interviewed, I suspect would identify that way. We were talking about Carrie McCormack, somebody who works at your firm who comes on our show a lot. She definitely considers herself that way as well. So I think there is something to it. That is again, very exciting for for anybody listening, who might think gosh, I’m not quite I don’t get as much juice out of, you know, being extroverted as I do introverted. So but I want to start at the very, very beginning of of how you got into real estate, why real estate? And can you walk us through that journey?

Amanda McMillan 8:12
Absolutely. It’s been a heck of a journey. That’s a great word for it. I am first and foremost, a third generation realtor. So I was born into it. It was in my blood. I will tell most people my first experiences with it was when I was working. My mom’s open houses and broker opens when I was a teenager, she would essentially pay me $50, which was a tremendous amount of money. Money said, you can’t answer any questions. You sit there. And if anybody says anything, you give them my card. So I wasn’t doing anything unethical or wrong or anything like that. But that was my introduction. As I moved into my young adult years, I absolutely will say that I think the backing behind why I ended up in this industry is because when we were around the dinner table, and we were talking about life aspirations, my parents would continually say to me, to myself, and my sister, they said, Girls, when you grow up, you can be anything you want. You want to be a movie star, you want to be president you want to be doctor, you can be anything you want. What do you want to be sidenote, you can’t go into real estate. Now, the reason they said that is that my mother sold residential real estate for 30 plus years, my father was in commercial real estate for almost as long. You know, as I like to tell people, it’s not that they didn’t think it was a wonderful industry. It’s just that at that time when I was growing up in the 80s, it just was looked at as a different type of industry. And it was it, it wasn’t necessarily where you wanted to end up. It’s kind of what you fell into a little bit more. And with that being said, they told me that at a very, very young age. Now, anybody that knows me and knows me, well says that I probably hit that in the back of my psyche, that somebody told me not to do something so that when the time came to be I said, Wait a second. You told me I shouldn’t do that. I’m going to do it and I’m going to show you how I knock it out of the park when I do it. So well. Long story short, it was in my blood, I was kind of told to stay away from it. And therefore I ran out in full force.

D.J. Paris 10:06
I love that you rebelled by going, I’m going to do exactly what you did mom and dad and maybe Grandpa, grandpa, grandma. No, no, but I love that. And it makes perfect sense. Because obviously, you you just were exposed to it at such a young age you you you didn’t have the same experience of somebody graduating college going, Gosh, what do I do now? And then maybe, like you said, maybe falling into real estate when, you know, maybe they went to school for marketing or some other purpose and maybe didn’t, you know, couldn’t find a foothold in that career. And then some people fall back on real estate, but I love the fact that it was it’s clearly in your in your genes. And, and you didn’t ignore that even though your parents were like we want we want you to do other things.

Amanda McMillan 10:49
Well, I didn’t say there’s one little interesting tidbit to it, because there was a side venture before I before I decided to come back to my one of my degrees actually, I had a double major in college and one of my degrees is actually in equestrian studies. For those that don’t know, that is the study of horses. I actually rode professionally, horses have always been a part of my life. They still are to this day, I wrote professionally out of college and I did that thing where I followed one of my absolute passions. And it’s one of those things that when you follow one of your absolute passions into life and into profession, sometimes it loses some of the passion and you realize that maybe it wasn’t the right idea. Yeah, so I did have an interesting side endeavor, but it was pretty quick. I actually got back into the real estate world by the time I was 24.

D.J. Paris 11:32
Are you are you still riding today?

Amanda McMillan 11:34
I am for better for worse. Sometimes people say I’m a little nuts and a little crazy. I do still ride and I still ride on a pretty competitive level.

D.J. Paris 11:42
And then do you ride Okay, I’m gonna ask you the one question I know about equestrian which is do you ride dressage? Or? That’s the only thing I know right? Is that is that the right word?

Amanda McMillan 11:50
That is the right word very good discharges the flat work a little bit art artistry, a little bit like dancing. That’s not what I do. I do jumping so I like big jumps and I like to jump in metastasis I can.

D.J. Paris 11:59
Amazing and where do you do so? Do you live in the city? I know your office is here. Are you out? Just out of curiosity because now I’m fascinated about where the horses

Amanda McMillan 12:07
so I’m our primary residence is in the city. Our horses live out near Libertyville. So they’re not far from the city. We do have a farm as well in Northwest Illinois. That’s the I always joke and say that I’m I love the city. I love everything about it. But I’m not always a city person so that we have a little bit of ability to get a 24 hour escape when we need to.

D.J. Paris 12:28
Well, I will tell you, I did I went to Mira vol, which is this like, sort of new agey fancy place in in Tucson with my mom years ago to, to kind of where like, wealthy people go to chill out and relax and find themselves but but I, my mum on the strip there. And so we went and we got to, to to really spend time with with horses and learn, learn about how to clean them and groom them. And it was part of a therapeutic process of, of getting in connection. And it was actually quite relaxing and peaceful. And yeah, so that’s awesome. I didn’t mean to get caught up on on on your equestrian stuff. But it’s it’s very cool. Especially for people who live in the city. Super cool. So So you got into real estate. You know, your parents said No, you said yes. And then what what you know, you’ve seen, gosh, hundreds, if not 1000s of agents come and go, I’m sure. in that timeframe. What do you think made the difference for you in terms of success? Like you’ve seen people make it you’ve seen people who don’t make it? What do you think was what were some of the reasons why you did better? And obviously having you know, families where you probably were more more attuned to it. But what do you think made the difference for you?

Amanda McMillan 13:44
I wish I could say that there was some sort of special pill or some sort of magic thing that I did. The reality is, is I worked my ass off. I mean, there’s no candy coating that is that, you know, it’s funny, I try I talked to him, I mentor a lot of younger agents and stuff like that. And the reality is, the first market I ever stepped into was just post September 11. I joined the industry in 2002. So that was that was my introduction. Now I didn’t know any different, so it was fine. But the reality is, is I entered the market at a time of complete crisis. Now in hindsight, 21 years later, and three crisis later. I think that that probably shaped a lot of the way that I work with my clients. But I came in from the start and I am always one of those believers that we are in charge of, of our own destiny, so to say, and that if I want to succeed in something, I know the odds are stacked against me. What am I going to do? I’m going to work incredibly hard to get there now. I think the hardest part for a newer agent is you don’t always know what to work harder on. You know, I think that that’s one of the question marks is okay, sure. I can show up and say I’m gonna work hard, but a lot of times it’s the question is the what where, why how when? So for me when I first got into the industry, I knew While I needed one thing, I needed training, right? That is all I needed. This was not an era in which there were teams or anything like that somebody that would take me under their wing. So I, at the time look for the company that I didn’t know if I’d stay with them long term. But I looked for the company that in my opinion, had the absolute best training possible. And I joined them, because I knew 1,000% At that point in time, I needed that. So if somebody was going to give me the training, and then somebody was going to put it back on me to execute all of those pieces, well, then I was at least setting myself up for better success.

D.J. Paris 15:31
It’s actually really a really rational and sort of logical approach that I think a lot of newer agents don’t know how critical the training Well, it’s tough. I you know, I think about this a lot, because you get your you pass the exam, you get your license, you join a firm, and every firm’s calling you at the same time. So you’re getting all of these, at least here in Illinois, they, everyone’s data gets sold to every brokerage. So we’re all calling at the same time going, please join our firm, and everybody says they have great training. That’s the other thing, too, is then trying to figure out which firms actually do a good job of that not all firms do at properties where you are, is absolutely known for having exceptional training, and always has ever since I’ve been in this industry. So you certainly you certainly are at a good firm. And I don’t know if you started there, but but you’re at a firm now that absolutely is well known for that. So you know is that something that you recommend when you talk to newer agents is like, hey, if when you’re choosing a firm, you know, think about what the training options are? And how just out of curiosity, how might you? If you are new today, how might you start to figure out which firms do a better job of that than others is? Do you Would you have any suggestions for agents that maybe this year are thinking maybe I should switch firms or look at other options? You know, because everyone does say after training?

Amanda McMillan 16:49
No, absolutely, absolutely, I think it takes definitely a lot of due diligence upfront, because the reality is, as you said, if when you get your license, anybody’s gonna give you a shot, right? The reality is, is it’s it’s not illegal to work anywhere, special, anybody will hire you. So the fact that so and so’s calling you and so and so is calling you, it may feel great. But it really doesn’t mean much. In terms of finding out the training, obviously, you want to sit down, you know, with the managing brokers, you want to hear what they have to say. But the reality is, is most managing brokers are accomplished agents that at some point in time decided to take a step back and doing it another way. So that’s a salesperson that’s trying to sell you on the training. And they should probably be pretty good, especially if they got put into that role to help coach agents in that capacity. So that’s a good starting point. Because I think there’s certain companies that a just when you go in and you meet with people, I think you’re gonna connect on certain levels, and you’re not going to feel right. So first and foremost, trust your gut trust what you feel in that connection, did you Did it feel appropriate sitting down? Did it feel like the office and everything like that had what you were looking for? Or did it feel often anyways, the next thing I would do is I would absolutely ask to talk to a couple of agents in that office. If you don’t know on yourself, ask them to broker say, Hey, I’d love to talk to an agent, I’d like to talk to somebody very, very experienced. And I’d like to talk to somebody that maybe has been newer in your program in the last six to 12 months, because then you can ask them what it is they have gone through and how it has come to be from that perspective. So I think that, you know, doing a little bit more due diligence, don’t be afraid to ask I think a lot of people when they join this industry, especially if they are are younger, and it’s a first industry, right, they have less confidence to push back. But I think you need to understand that that company wants you as well. And so with that being said, doing that due diligence, really making sure it’s a great fit for you is really something that I would encourage you to do. The other thing that this wasn’t a thing in my day and age, but I think the concept of teams is a great learning capacity. Now, that being said, I think there’s two types of teams, I think there are teams that are built to basically basically prioritize the team lead and manage their business. And then I think that there are teams that are built to basically try and create a winning environment for the team people in there. And there’s a big difference between that too. But in my experience, even once agents learn what they need to learn, the biggest thing holding them back in success is confidence or lack thereof. I have agents that I’ve worked with that are so smart at what they do, but they’re so afraid of getting asked a question that they can’t answer and being caught in that situation, that they don’t feel as competent to go and go out after the business because they’re afraid to get asked something they don’t. So like, for example, the way our team is structured is that when we do have newer agents on it, I want to put them in the scenarios very safely and protectively, where they’re doing things that they couldn’t necessarily do unless they had more business. I want them to do more showings. I want them to meet the contractors. I want them to sit through inspections, all these things with your ears open to your absorbing, you know from all these different pieces so that when you do get that client and you are working through a transaction, you know what an inspection is? Like, you know what meeting contractors are like, you know, all of these different pieces. And you also know, you’ve got a very strong backbone backbone to come and ask questions to so the team concept in my mind is something like, Gosh, I wish it was around when I when I came in. It was I was asking a lot of questions to my managing broker, I was very, very fortunate that at the time, I had a couple of great people in the office that would let me bang on their door and all the time asking for advice. But I know that a lot of people and especially in this day and age aren’t always as comfortable to go up to a senior agent and say, Hey, can you help me in this? And that’s where I think the team environment definitely would be something that I would at least explore if I was getting into the business now.

D.J. Paris 20:38
That’s all such amazing advice. I just had a few thoughts while you were saying that and to my one thought that I wanted to man to get your your reaction to specially for newer agents, you know, this would be this idea of being afraid of what you don’t know. Yes, of course, you are, like totally normal, rational, reasonable, don’t beat yourself up for being afraid of being asked a question. You don’t know. Yes, it’s scary, because you don’t want to look, you know, like you don’t know what you’re doing, of course, but there are, that’s just going to happen. So anyone who’s practiced long enough, probably still gets questions that they don’t have an immediate answer to, but certainly new agents. And so I encourage all of the new agents who join us. And we have, well, two things First, whatever firm you’re at, ask them let’s say I’m at a showing it’s three o’clock on a on a Tuesday, and a client asks a question, and I don’t know the answer, you know, I’m going to step away, and then I’m going to, you know, how can I reach out to the firm? And what would be a reasonable expectation of how quickly I could get an answer back, just so I could then communicate that to my clients, hey, I’m going to double check with my team, I’ll get back to you tomorrow or whatever, or in an hour, whatever is reasonable. So have that process mapped out already in your mind? And then say to the client, boy, that’s an amazing question. I’m going to double check with my team, because I want to give you a really good answer. And I just want to double check something, you know, you could even make it sound like you’re thinking about it, and you can act out that you have an answer, but you want to double check on it. But making sure you have that locked and loaded, I think is really helpful. And I think most people are completely understanding of, oh, I want to go check with my team and make sure that makes sense. I’m curious what your thoughts are

Amanda McMillan 22:14
1,000%. In fact, I always tell my team when we’re talking about this and doing some role playing. There are questions that I’m gonna get asked, I’m 21 years in, and I’ve done a tremendous amount of business. And I get questions asked all the time that I’m like, I’m not a Rolodex, like, I know a lot. But there’s certain things that I’d say the number one question that we get asked all the time is, somebody’s gonna say we’re gonna walk through a property, they’re gonna say, hey, what do you think this is worth? Number one question, we sure. And the reality is, is that we cover a very large area in the city, right? We do predominantly from the South Loop, North Rogers Park, and everything in between. And so with that, there can be a lot of different property types that come up. There’s no one in the world that can tell you if they walk in a property in that span, and come out to say, is it priced exactly right. Now I can give you a gut, I can say, hey, sure. It’s it’s, I don’t think it’s out of line. But I want to check a few things to make sure that it’s right. I can say, Gosh, that really feels overpriced. But like, so that’s something that I tell all the team, I said, You know what I say in that instance, I say it’s just that, hey, you know, what my gut is, is that it’s fairly appropriate. But I want to check what a couple of closings just finished up that I didn’t see what they finalized that and that will have impact. Let me get back to you later today. Just like that, I always say have had these certain sayings have some reason to be comfortable to go back to say, this is something that that we want more information on, just so that I can provide you the most recent most exact thing Hey, I want to I want to just touch base with my team leader. I have a good idea on this. But I know she thinks about it a little bit differently than I would love to provide you kind of with something a little bit more well, well rounded, anything like that. People don’t think twice on that’s going to come across way better to a consumer than giving them a made up answer that probably isn’t right.

D.J. Paris 24:03
Yeah, there used to be some weird statistic and I don’t remember it exactly. But it was something that that was popular for a while and I really encourage people to not take this advice which is more people are more willing to accept a wrong answer fast than the right answer slow, make the right answer slow. I think that is that is the way better but tell them say I need to do is crunch some numbers. I need to talk to somebody I want. Yeah, so I am right with you on that one. And by the way, I want to also just re promote I want everyone to visit Chicago real talk.com As you’ve noticed how Amanda has been communicating with us thus far. You know, she is has just a lot of information, a lot of wisdom. And I want you to really emulate some of the ways in which she communicates so by by subscribing to our podcast on YouTube again, if you go to Chicago, real talk.com It’ll take you there subscribe and notice which the way that she communicates to clients because she is a master communicator and Um, this is really something that that I want you whether you’re Chicago or not to just get an awareness of how she does it, because almost all of her business is referral 95%. So let’s talk about that, you know, Leads Leads are everything right? People want leads, they they want to figure out, you know, how to have have more business. And this is the year where everyone’s struggling a little bit more maybe than then in the last couple of years. So I’m curious on what you are telling your team to focus on right now for keeping leads generated, while interest rates are high. lending rates are high, rather. And of course, inventory is not as high as we would like it to be.

Amanda McMillan 25:39
Absolutely. You know, so it’s interesting when I first got into this business, and I I process things, I’m a processor, I’m very data driven, I overthink everything, if anything, I get my own way. Sometimes if my business because I’m, I’m trying to over strategize things. So when I decide something I can promise you, there’s a lot of thought process that goes into it. When I got into this business, I looked at it and said a couple of things. Number one, as I told you, I was already an introverted personality type. So that was one of the things that I really, really wanted to focus on to say, Okay, what type of what type of business model is best going to suit me? Is the idea of cold calling people going to be natural to me? Probably not. It’s the idea of door knocking, right? We’re going back 21 years people did door knock, is that going to come across naturally, even open houses I wasn’t very good at right. Of course, I’ve done all these things in my career. And I’ve tried to over the years get better at these things. But really, when I looked at how I had thrived in some of my past accomplishments, and who I was, I really knew that a referral based business model was going to be right for me, because it came down to the fact that first and foremost, it’s the most client centric model, right? For me to be successful, my clients have to be very happy with what I do, and very successful in what they do. So I knew that that was something that success is something that I could deliver, and something that I could control within who I was, because the reality is, is one on one with my clients. That’s my comfort zone, that is where I thrive. So the idea of creating this business model that essentially meant, if I leave all my clients as raving fans, that they’re gonna do that dirty work for me that I don’t necessarily think I’m good at, it was a no brainer to get to there. Now, the catch to this business model, here’s the catch, and it’s a big one, if you’re going to talk to talk, you have to be willing to walk the walk, if you’re going to run a referral based business model, you better be a heck of an agent to those clients. Because the only reason that they want to talk about you is because you left them feeling really good about what happened. And as I always tell people is that the success of a client doesn’t necessarily mean a closing, I’ve had a lot of referral sources that I have talked out of buying and selling time in and time out for years that they have never spent a commission dollar with me. But they’ve probably referred me dozens of clients. So you know, for me that rep, that model was always something that was good, because it was very controllable to me. And it also really highlighted my skill sets of where I thought I could thrive. Now we have over the years within the team, I don’t necessarily work online leads, we have worked them into our team structure for some of the team agents. But I’m also looking at it when I got into this business, I had a whole lot of nothing, right? I didn’t have a patent bank account, I didn’t have a huge network, I didn’t have all these things. So the idea of spending money on leads seemed not not realistic for me. So for me, it was the ability that if I can go out there if i could do great if I could really advise Well, right. And there were times that it was really hard because like I said, there wasn’t there wasn’t all the financial backing in what I was doing. But if you really do a great job and advise well and make sure that your clients know that what you’re telling them to do is absolutely in their best interest, then a referral based business model is something that can just thrive over the years.

D.J. Paris 28:58
You’ve just said something that I thought was super interesting. And I’d like to explore it a little bit because it really lit me up when you said this in just the best the best way which was talking, talking clients out of a transaction when it’s not in their best interest. This, this to me is where the the juice is of what most agents, you know, it’s not that it’s not that they want someone to make the wrong decision necessarily. They just maybe don’t want to get in the middle of the decision. And sort of be the reason somebody buys or doesn’t buy. I’m just sort of hypothesizing but I see most agents I think don’t do this. They don’t say this is a really good buy or a bad buy or a good set. You know, this is good for you. This is maybe not so good for you. I think realtors have have in their wanting to just sort of stay neutral have and maybe just fear of making the wrong suggestion. You know, oftentimes don’t give those recommendations. They’re like you want to put an offer and we can put an offer and I’ll give you some suggestions if you want to put it and offering, but should I put an offer in maybe is is a, it’s whatever it’s, at least for me, that’s all I want from any of my service providers in my life, I want them to say this is a good idea. And DJ, what we know about you, this is a bad idea. And I, that I will be with that person for the rest of my life if they do that. So I love the fact that you’re willing to say, you know, based on everything I know about you, this may or may not be a good idea. So just to

Amanda McMillan 30:27
kind of branch off on that I do like to clarify, I don’t make any of my clients decisions for them. And, of course, then I’m not going to make their decisions for them. That being said, People ask me all the time, let me know, what was what was the point in which your business really took off? What did you do what happened? And I will honestly go back to during the financial crisis, right? 2009 to 2011. Yeah, during that time, I and this has been my mantra since the very beginning, but I think it became much more easy to vocalize and broadcast. During that time, I will tell you exactly what I think is in your best interest, regardless of anything else, right. And so during that time, I was giving a lot of advice to say, I know you want to sell to buy this, or I know you want to do this. But here’s the things I need you to think about because realistically, I don’t think it gets you to your end goal. Now, that is absolutely talking myself out of business. Absolutely 1,000%, there’s no there was no calm about it. But what it did do is I did that time and time and time and time again during that time period. And people started to realize very, very quickly that if I give somebody advice was very real, it was very accurate. And it had absolutely nothing to do with my own personal benefit. And that is when my reputation took a giant leap forward. Because if you tell somebody not to do business, if you tell somebody to not employ you and not take a step forward on something, I will almost guarantee you, they will tell everybody that they know everybody how great the advice was that their real estate agent just gave them. And I have done more business off of telling people not to not to do things, if that’s what I thought then then the alternative because you build you build trust.

D.J. Paris 32:15
It’s it’s it’s like, it’s kind of like when you find a reputable auto mechanic or you just hold on to them for your dear life because you’re like, I don’t want to worry about whether you’re ripping me off or telling me I need to fix this thing in my car. I just You just want to trust somebody when they say you need to fix this and this in your car, you just go Okay, good. I don’t have to, I don’t have to worry about my mechanic anymore. Or my accountant or my attorney or my financial advisor or my realtor. I mean, just the idea of being able to go to somebody and say, Look, I know you can help me buy this home, I can I understand you can do that. But what in your you know, based on what you know about me, should I consider this will this get me to where I want to go? And that’s the part where I think realtors can really step up and like you said and differentiate themselves and be beat not just a hey, I’ve got a question about XY and Z be an actual source of wisdom. And I think that’s really what we’re talking about, as you were saying, I have some wisdom here. And this is my opinion about what is coming through in my wisdom. And that’s worth its weight in gold and everybody wants to be to receive wisdom. We don’t always listen. But But we love hearing it because we want an opinion from an expert. That’s really why, you know, realtors get paid so incredibly well to to help people buy and sell homes. I think it’s it’s a lot of it’s mechanical. And then a lot of it’s like, I like you were saying just telling people the actual truth. That way you see it, giving your opinion and, and then having them say, wow, my realtor really is looking out for me. My realtor obviously cares about me. And I think that’s really what you’re demonstrating, you’re demonstrating care, and everybody wants to be cared for. So I I applaud you for that. So if somebody doesn’t feel confident, confident, being able to, you know, maybe they’re new to the business, and they’re like, I don’t know, if some if this purchase, or the sale for my client is in their best interest, I truly just don’t have enough experience. That’s where you would then go to a trainer or coach or your managing broker and say, Can you help me figure out if this is you? If this looks like it may be in their best interest? Is that what you would suggest?

Amanda McMillan 34:21
1,000% Ask lots of questions. Ask questions to people that are have done it longer. I’ve done it differently. Whatever the case may be like I am a huge person that I believe collaboration is the way that we all move forward. Right? Even at my level, I’m constantly throwing ideas against people asking people ideas like this is how we grow as an industry. This is how we get better as an industry. We are not not a lone ship by any means. In fact, I read a book one of the books that I always say kind of changed my career. There’s a gentleman by the name of Tim Saunders. He back in the day right back 20 Some years ago, he was the chief solutions officer for Yahoo. He’s now taking And on his own role, he’s a fascinating and brilliant, brilliant businessman. I saw him speak when I was very early in the business. And he wrote a book. And what’s interesting about this book is it was very ahead of its time, and it’s called Love the killer app. Now, what’s interesting is this was back in I think the publishing date was either the late 90s, or the very early 2000s. We didn’t have apps at that time, right? But the whole mindset was just that is that he talked about the fact that we had to evolve, right? If we look at past times, especially in a sales based business, it was so much about the sharks in the barracudas, like, this is my business, I can’t share and collaborate with somebody else, because they’re my competition that there’s, they’re gonna take my business, it’s very fear based,

D.J. Paris 35:40
aggression based, like very, like, I need to beat you. And yeah,

Amanda McMillan 35:45
yeah. And he kind of brought up the idea and just said, Hey, guys, there’s enough business for all of us. What if what if we change that mindset? Why don’t we call us and he kind of termed as this, he coined this term love cats? And he said, What if we collaborate a little bit more? What if we go to our competitors? And say, How are you doing this? This is how I’m doing this. And what if we all get better together? Don’t we just create a better industry and that is something the book is phenomenal. The me watching him speak at one point in time was phenomenal, and it impacted the entire way I’ve done business over the last two years or two decades,

D.J. Paris 36:15
we thank you for that recommendation, we will put a link to is called Love is the killer app, how to win business and influence friends, you’re right 2003. And Tim Sanders is the guy is the author, and we will post a link to that great, great suggestion. Now, you know, it’s interesting, you talk about how you have really taken your business to the next level by thinking from a marketing perspective, I want raving fans, which means really, you’re focusing exclusively on the client or not exclusively, I’m sure you do some marketing, but the client experience. So what is the client experience? Like? How do you know if it’s a successful client experience? Because let’s just say that, let’s say every single time the transaction completes, but it doesn’t necessarily mean a great client experience. So what how do you define that was a good client experience versus that one? We missed it a little bit?

Amanda McMillan 37:06
Well, I’d like to think we haven’t missed it. No, it’s interesting when I was newer in the business, and I remember very, very clearly, Dave Hanna, who was a huge mentor and a huge impact on my life. He was one of the managing brokers at Prudential preferred properties when I started up, wait all those years ago, and he really took me under his wing because he knew I was inquisitive. And he knew I had a lot of a lot of things that I was trying to figure out. I remember at one point in time, he, he pulled me aside and he said to me, he goes Amina, here’s some advice I’m gonna give you, you’ve got to learn not to take everything so personally, is that you take it too, personally. And at some point, now it’s okay. But at some point, it’s going to burn out. And once again, I’m a processor. So I walked away from that conversation, very grateful that it happened. I processed it for the next two days. And then I went back to him and I said, Hey, I want to I want to revisit that conversation. Of course, he was so busy at the time, he’s like, what, what conversation is that? And I said, the one where you told me that I take things too, personally. And that that was going to burn me out. And I said, I appreciate what you had to say. And I think there’s absolutely some value in it. But I think one of the things that’s going to make me different than one of the things that’s really going to make me great is that I do take those things, personally, is that I literally get on that roller coaster ride with my clients, and I ride the highs and I ride the lows so that when we get off that ride, we are both at the same endeavor, for better or for worse. And yes, I think I think what he was trying to tell me at that point, but I wasn’t ready to hear was the fact that I needed to learn how to kind of turn the emotional part of it off. So stay that invested stay on that ride, but maybe learn to, to kind of not get myself so worked up in it, right. That’s the experience that we learn. But you know, that’s something that I really took forward in this business is that I think any one of my clients will tell you is that I am in, I’m in the transaction, I’m in the heat of it. And it doesn’t matter if you’re buying a $200,000 condo, or you’re selling a $3.5 million home, we treat every one of our clients the exact same because they deserve that from us. And we we limit the number of clients that will work with at one time, as I’ll tell any agents I don’t, you’re never gonna see me in the top 10 agents of Chicago, I have a ton of ton of respect for those that are. But the way that we run our business model with what we do with the level of service that we commit to people, we restrict the number of clients that we’re going to work with at one time because we literally commit so much to them. And we have structured our small, intimate team to really focusing on the level of service, I was told so many times as I grew up in this industry, that the service has to take a step back as the business grows. And that is something that I’ve refused to believe over the years and I truly believe that our our business is showing that if you go online, if you Google the team, if you look at all the reviews, you’re gonna struggle to find to find a negative one. In fact, I think the only real negative ones you find out there or typically from the other side that was a little angry that I that I enforced the situation that should needed to be enforced. So I truly believe we stay very connected. We’re connected with all of our clients throughout it. Sure, there’s absolutely things that happen that are outside of our control, of course, on the other side that can leave some bad taste. But I’m a full believer that communication is key in all of this stuff. So even when things are going wrong, we are trying to be right at the forefront of everything happening to make sure that at the end of the day, our clients, you know, what they may not have liked some of the things that happened, but they’re going to be happy with how we managed and how we dealt with some of the curveballs along the way.

D.J. Paris 40:25
And on the flip side, it’s even more dangerous to do a less than ideal did have a less than ideal performance with a client. Because, you know, the, you know, certain studies have shown that people are more likely to spread, you know, hey, my client, my agent wasn’t very good versus was good. So you really have to do it for two reasons. One, you want referrals, and you want to do a good job for your clients. So you want that reputation. But if you don’t, the downside is they’re not going to talk, either. They’re not going to talk about you at all to their friends, or they’re going to say, well, they were okay. But you know, I felt like, oh, maybe, maybe they could have done more or less, or more or, you know, listened more or been more proactive. So you focus so much on the client experience, because that becomes your marketing. That’s the result of that is all your marketing essentially is done for you. It doesn’t mean you have an easy life. Like, of course, it’s not easy to give an exceptional experience to every single client. But if you hyper focus on that, like you said, whether it’s 200,000 or a million million dollar properties, you are going to have people that go Wow. And you know, I think the wow factor in this industry is not as hard to achieve as people may think it certainly takes a ton of work, no question about it. But is it? It’s, it’s difficult, because it’s a lot of work. But going that extra mile is is really, every I’ve interviewed almost 500 top agents now. They all go the extra mile. And they all say that, and I hope that you know, what does the extra mile look like for you?

Amanda McMillan 42:00
Well, you know, it’s funny, you say that I am going to deviate a little bit from your question, because I think it’s a really important thing to note. I personally think that in our world, to be a good agent, is incredibly obtainable. Incredibly, to be a great agent takes another another level of that perspective. But if you want to make a good living, if you want to have a good business that you are very proud of, and a substantial income and everything like that, I truly believe that just like anybody can go out there and do it, because it’s literally about showing up doing the job knowing what’s expected of you delivering results. It’s literally, as I like to say the threshold is not that high, that it’s something that an elitist group can get it. Now, I do think that there’s an absolute large step to get into a level of greatness. And for me, that’s where a lot of strategy and sophistication comes from. Right. And and it’s the same thing that people tell me all the time, they say, Oh, are you? Are you afraid that your job that your industry is going to go away? Right, all the information is out there? The reality is all the information is out there right now, and people are still very reliant on what we do. I don’t think our careers as top agents are really threatened at all, because the reality is, is my value to my clients? Sure, I can find a property sure I can put together a strategy. But the reality is, is it’s everything that’s in here to help navigate what’s happening out there. It’s the plans that we’re putting into place, the strategies to get there. When we hit certain roadblocks. It’s knowing where to sidestep what built in condo buildings are run in a manner. It’s the stuff that they don’t, they can get the information, but they certainly don’t know how to digest it.

D.J. Paris 43:44
Absolutely. I’m curious to what are you doing in between transactions to keep your clients aware that you’re still out there practicing making sure they don’t forget your name, let’s say so, you know, maybe they buy or sell a home every five, seven years. So you have this large swath of time in between? How are you staying in communication with them so that they when they’re ready, again, that they’re like Amanda’s the person,

Amanda McMillan 44:10
or certain and that’s, I think the name of the game of where we really have to concentrate our efforts as somebody that runs a referral basis based business model. Because the reality is, is most of my clients aren’t in the market for so many years. And if I’m not in contact with them, they may not be as quick to be in a conversation to say, Oh, wait, I love my realtor. And I want them to put you in touch with her. You know that the methods have definitely changed over the years. But I also am a firm believer that it’s really about the basics. First and foremost, we need to keep in contact with them. Right. And that really depends on the individual. You know, I’d say 20 some odd years ago, we created a client appreciation program. Thanks to Brian Buffini for helping with the ideas. I didn’t spearheaded. I didn’t reinvent the coin. But we did personalize it so they do a great program. We started something like that where we set Send a snail mail, monthly mailing about something in Chicago most of it is not really relevant to real estate. Because right most people don’t want to hear too much. Maybe once or twice a year, we send some real estate stuff. But other things

D.J. Paris 45:11
are more like here’s cool events going on. Or here’s just something to know about Chicago or

Amanda McMillan 45:15
certain we do online. Yeah, we do an online digital March Madness pool, we do the top 10 wines under 10 bucks, our favorite Alfresco restaurants for the year we do a charity toy drive, I mean, just stuff to keep people involved, right. And hopefully things that are that are interesting to them on some level. So we do that as a snail mail, we obviously over the years and then move that into an email campaign as well. And that we do both people know that I’m a huge stickler for, for snail mail in general, right? When I started in this industry, we were all very excited about emails now we all get hundreds and hundreds a day. And we’re really excited about mail. I believe in keeping in touch with people, you know, and that’s different on who it is whether we’re calling them texting them, emailing them, trying to set up a coffee date or something, keeping in touch with people and doing it for the right reason. I do it because I genuinely care about those people, right? These are people that were important to me, yes, there’s a business aspect to it. But these are people that I have the had the ability to genuinely get involved in their life and care about what’s going on. And if you can bring that compassion forward, people get it, people understand it. So I would say for people that aren’t so compassionate, that’s a harder piece to emulate, it might not be the right business model for you. But for me, that was one of the things, we’ll do some client appreciation events throughout the year. One of our favorites is like around October, we do photos for professional photos for our clients so that they can send out holiday cards, we used to do a big event every year at Arlington racetrack. We were really sad when that went away. But we’ve done a lot of fun things over the city. So we try and do some events just to give back and thank them. You know, I’d say the, in the more recent years, obviously social media has become a big component of it. Right? I have a love hate relationship with social media. It’s an ask those everyone. But you know, I love it, and I tried to say really, really positive about it is that we have the ability to connect with people and stay connected on a higher level. So I think for a business perspective, it’s a huge advantage if you can really use it and use it correctly, in terms of just understanding where people are at what’s going on in their lives being supportive, even if it’s from afar, having a reason to reach out to them from that. So social media has kind of implemented that. As you mentioned before, we just we’re about 11 episodes into our podcast, which once again, that was just an idea that stemmed a little bit from the pandemic. But, you know, it’s kind of interesting is that, we found that there are so many question marks about the market, right? There’s so many things going on, especially during more turbulent times. And We have certainly been in turbulent times for the last three years. And it got to a point where it was almost a little difficult to try and reach everybody at one point in time. So we created the idea of the podcast under the idea that we have so much Intel and information we wanted to share with people. And that this was at least a platform that we could try and reach a larger base to tell our people, Hey, I can’t I may not be able to get, you know, 2000 people on the phone this month. But I can put these words out there so that they can understand what’s going on. And if everyone’s freaking out, because the media is on this kick to make everyone really scared that we’re on the brink of a housing crisis, well, then we can talk about that. And hopefully I can have a larger span. And it’s one of those things that we’ve been doing now for we’re coming on a year anniversary, it’s been a ton of fun for us. And it’s one of those things that it’s it’s really, we’ve got the momentum now. And we’re really excited to see how people are reacting to it. And I can tell them at times I see people and they’re like, Oh my God, thank you so much like, we didn’t, we didn’t want to reach out we didn’t want to bother you. We know how busy you are. But just kind of hearing what you had to say about it really helped us to this time. And once again, they all comes back to that that level of compassion and that ability to want to do right in this industry.

D.J. Paris 48:53
100% I really encourage everybody right now go visit Chicago real talk.com Subscribe. Notice how effortlessly and notice how much Amanda wants to communicate right? She has things to say she’s she is confident she has experience. She has wisdom. She’s been in this game 21 years, you want to, you really want to emulate what Amanda has become. And one of the easiest ways to do that is to watch the ways in which she communicates. So go to Chicago, real talk.com it’ll redirect you to YouTube, hit that subscribe button, watch the way in which she communicates. And again, this is a self described introvert with you know, we’re all kind of both introverted and extroverted but more introverted than extroverted. Amanda describes herself and notice how well and effectively she communicates. I think this is one of the softer skills. And really, I mean, I would love to have you back on our show because you are so process driven you are so you just have a lot of wisdom that I’d love to extrapolate more from so maybe we can talk offline about About even doing some some future episodes because this was really really exceptional for me. And for our audience, I know I’m speaking on their behalf. So I would like everybody again, visit Chicago real talk.com Hit that subscribe button. Notice emulate success. And Amanda is one of the one of the top agents here in Chicago. And she just has a lot of great ideas. So for all of our listeners out there, we want to actually perfect time to say thank you to Amanda for coming on our show. And I’m excited to see more of Amanda here locally, I excited to to see you more events and things and chat more with you and see if we can do some more cool stuff on the podcast. So on behalf of our audience, Amanda, thank you so much for some of this great wisdom. Oh, by the way, anyone who is listening, in addition to going to Chicago, real talk.com If you are an agent in the Chicagoland area, and maybe you’re on a team, or maybe you’re thinking of joining a team, or switching teams, or maybe you’re at a brokerage, where you don’t feel like you’re getting the attention that you deserve, or maybe there’s a greener pastures out there, reach out to Amanda and her team and see if maybe you guys could be a good fit for each other. The best way to do that is, you know, look her up, she is Chicago home partner, I believe it’s Chicago home partner.com, we will have a link to that in the show notes. But reach out if you’re looking to maybe join a team. Or maybe you can be a value to Amanda or maybe you’re in a different market. And you have clients that come that move in and out of Chicago, and you want a great referral relationship. Talk to Amanda. She has clients that move out of Chicago, and she has you know, and you might have clients that move in. So reach out to her maybe create a connection and a referral base there. So on behalf of our audience, Amanda, thank you so much for being on our show. I am. It’s so so exciting for me to speak with you. And I’m so glad that you’re a local person here. I’m excited to get to know you better. And on behalf of Amanda and myself, we want to say thank you to our audience, our lovely, loyal audience. Thank you for making it all the way to the end of our episode. Please support a couple of things support Amanda, go subscribe to her YouTube channel. She’s awesome, you’re gonna learn so much. Also support our sponsors we love our sponsors are the reason we can pay the bills. So please check out their services and products. And last tell a friend think of one other realtor that could benefit from listening to this great conversation with Amanda and send them a link to our to our website, I guess. Keeping it real pod.com Every episode can be streamed we have, I think almost 500 episodes now. Or just have them pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real. And hit that subscribe button so you get notified every new episode. Amanda, thank you so much for being on our show. You were wonderful guest. This was such a great conversation. And I thank you for your time and we’ll see everybody on the next episode.

Amanda McMillan 52:57
Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure.

Steven Cozza with Cozza Team talks about his transition from professional cyclist into real estate. Steven discusses strategies to help agents do and be more effective. Steven also goes into detail about teams and how they help make better agents and the importance of consistency for success. Last, Steven discusses disappointment and how to effectively cope with loss.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Steven Cozza can be reached at 707.328.9766 and [email protected].

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
Today we’re going to be talking with one of the former top cyclists in the world, and what lessons he took with him when he switched over into real estate. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. There agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide and host through the show. And in just a moment, we’re going to be speaking with top 1% producer Steven cosa. But before we get to Stephen, just a couple of quick reminders, the best way that you can help our show two things you can do first. So I should say the best ways you can help our show. The first way is to tell a friend of course, think of one other agent in your office or someone you know, out there practicing who hasn’t heard of our show and could use some of the wisdom that are these top producers share on every episode. And the second way that you can help us support our sponsors. I personally hand select our sponsors while zonna and I and we always make sure that our sponsors provide incredible products and services for you and they’re also the ones that pay our bills. So please check them out that you’d be doing us a huge favor, support our sponsors. And by telling a friend Alright guys, let’s get to the main event my conversation with Steven cosa.

Today on the show we have Steven Koza with the Koza team in Sonoma and Marin County and the North San Francisco Bay. Let me tell you more about Steven and his team. Now Steven spent a decade racing bikes professionally in Europe. As a former elite professional cyclist Stephen has the mental stamina, tenacity and brilliance to make buying and selling process attainable reality for his clients. Stephen excels in the local market with buyers and sellers and surpasses the yearly sales average of Sonoma and Marin County realtors, now native to the area, he’s a valuable resource with his never give up attitude. Paired with the compass go above and beyond standard, Steven gives his clients 120% of his efforts. From urban condos to countryside estates, Steven treats each property with premium marketing services and a precisely focused strategy. Please follow him and his team at coza team that CO ZZ a team.com and also on social this Facebook, Instagram, YouTube Koza team is the handle we will have links to the social channels as well as koza team.com in our show notes, Steven, welcome to the show.

Steven Cozza 4:03
Yeah, thanks, DJ. I’m honored to be here. Thanks for having me.

D.J. Paris 4:07
Well, we’re excited to have you and really I always love what’s such a neat part of this job for me or this I don’t know if it’s really a job so much. It’s just a fun fun thing for me to do. But I get to have conversations with not only people that I think would be interesting to our audience, which of course is the ultimate goal, but interesting to me as well. And I have always been fascinated by people that perform at high levels, whether it’s in business sports, any any field really I’m just always drawn to, to what I consider to be a sort of excellence and in skill. And so I’m excited to chat with you and how you were able to take some of those learnings from from your previous career as an athlete but let’s start all the way at the very beginning. Number one, how did you actually get into real estate or why real estate?

Steven Cozza 4:56
Yeah, totally. So um, well, I got into this He’s kind of funny, I got into a became a professional athlete athletes through cycling. And when I was in school, I never did well in school I was I’m dyslexic, and I struggled there. So I always excelled in sports, it was just where I gravitated to, and my mom grew up, my dad grew up in baby boomers gotta go to college, gotta go to college. So it was pretty tough for me to break out of that mold. But it was an avenue for me to not have to go to college sort of speak. So I really, really, really busted my butt to make it as a professional athlete. I raced in Europe for 10 plus years. And that’s what kind of led me into my real estate career in a weird way. Because my mom would always say, invest in 401k, you know, from my cycling, invest, you know, that your retirement is your retirement, and I said, Mom, I don’t even own a house. Why would I put money into a 401k? I don’t, I don’t have a place to live, you know, I’m renting. You know, so I said, I’m, I’m gonna save buy a house. So I said, forget the 401k for a while I say, bought my first house. And then just kept going from there. And I started buying more properties rentals, all while I was racing. So it was kind of an easy transition from when I left cycling to rolling move into a role of wanting to help others do what I had done with real estate. And yeah, so that’s how I got into it. And little did I know how much cycling would actually helped me with my career in real estate. It was, it’s quite incredible. I look forward to talking about that a bit today.

D.J. Paris 6:37
I’m excited to hear about that, too. I am also curious, just because cycling was, you know, I’m 47. And so maybe it’s an age thing, but I and also I grew up in central Illinois, where that just wasn’t a sport. It may have been a sport, but it certainly wasn’t a known thing where there was like, oh, that’s an option. You know, there was football, baseball, basketball, if you were lucky, you had some maybe tennis and golf, if you had the ability to do those kinds of sports, or hockey also is in that category. But cycling just wasn’t really known to me other than what I would see on TV. So just out of curiosity, how did you even sort of pursue being a professional cyclist? Was that something you knew from an early age that you wanted to do? Was that popular in you know, where you grew up? Just out of curiosity?

Steven Cozza 7:26
Yeah, I mean, I moved from I played ball sports, baseball, soccer, and then got into cross country running in high school, I realized I wasn’t so good at the ball sports, better than during sports. And from during my running years, my friends got me to start mountain biking, and I would take my mom’s mountain bike. And before I knew it, I broke it. And she’s like, Alright, let me get you your own home like, and then they really supported me. I started doing races started winning. And then in 97, when Lance won his first Tour de France, I said, Oh my gosh, I got to do that. I broke my shoulder in a wrestling accident in high school, and I had to ride on the road for a year. And I transitioned over from there and got on the national team. So that’s kind of how I got into it moved from ball sports to cycling sports.

D.J. Paris 8:15
So wow, that’s, that’s, that’s amazing. I guess you’re right. When Lance did when he became the biggest athlete in the world, pretty much or one of them. And so you’re right, that really brought, you know, cycling more to the forefront of of the average, you know, person in this country’s awareness of like, oh, this is a thing. And this is a thing where, you know, you, you can have a lot of success, and here’s this American just just crushing it. So that was curious. Well, that’s, that’s amazing. So

Steven Cozza 8:46
I remember to go back because I remember there was a friend of mine whose dad was a big cyclist, he, he called me one day, I was like, 15 years old, he said, Stephen, only one in a million can become a professional cyclist, like he and I, and that always got me when someone told me I couldn’t do something. So at that moment, I decided, well, I’m gonna prove them wrong. And it kind of rolled over into real estate with that same kind of attitude because real estate is a very hard career to make it in. I mean, I never knew it was as hard as it is now. Now that I’m in it, I realized it but when you when you hear about you see all these agents posting on their open houses and making money here and there, you think it’s a lot easier than it is once you’re in it. So you got to have that tenacity.

D.J. Paris 9:31
Yeah, I always think like the time by the time you have a showing or you have a buyer, you’ve almost already won the hardest part of the business, which is getting clients and getting to trust you in that purchase or sale. So I think I think yeah, I think you’re so right, that that we you know, especially on this show, too, I have to be very careful because when I when I talk to really successful teams or agents like like yourself, where you have both There could be a tendency for one of our listeners or a lot of our listeners to think like, well, he’s already over the hump of like the hardest part of this business and not realizing that maybe the lead generation part becomes a little bit easier over time as you build up a reputation and, and you get more referrals, and you figure out what marketing strategies were. But it’s still a certainly a grind, in a way, meaning like, you still have to put in the reps and the hours into this probably in a lot of the same ways that you did when he first started. So I’m excited to learn about, about, you know, what you learned as an athlete, and then taking some of those those lessons into real estate. So can you tell us a little bit about that?

Steven Cozza 10:43
Yeah, totally. So um, really, when you jump into real estate, there’s different routes, you can go, you can get on a team, and you can try to maybe you inherited the business, or maybe you’re working with a parent. I didn’t have any of that. I mean, actually, my mom works with me now she was a teacher for 40 years taught kindergarten, and when she retired and said, Hey, come join a real estate team. And she’s great. It’s like she’s total, total natural at it. So it was kind of the reverse of what you normally see. But so so you have these different routes to take. And when you get on a team, some being on a team is a great thing. It’s you get a lot of support. But sometimes you don’t learn how to necessarily, you don’t learn the process of always how to get your own business. And when I started when I went to it was Frank Cardon, at the time, it’s it was the biggest brokerage in the Bay Area. They were around since from 1910 to like, 2000. And I think probably 16. They’re around for a long time. So I joined Frank guard Allen, but when I interviewed with the when I met the manager, Jim Michelson, who’s actually still the manager of our office today with Compass now, I actually I had no I still didn’t, I didn’t know anything about real estate at all, I’d gotten my license, which doesn’t really teach you what you really need to know, in the business. And so I remember, Jim told me later on, he talked to the manager, Frank Cardon, and Larry goes, Why would you take on a professional athlete, he doesn’t, he doesn’t, he’s not going to be a good man. And Jim goes, Are you kidding me? If he could be a professional athlete, then he can be a good real estate agent. And Jim was right. And I think that, like a lot of the listeners today, something to understand. And, you know, we’re always getting pounded over the head with every shiny whistle, and every every shiny bell and whistle of this product, or this product, or this system or this process. But I think it’s important to kind of get back to the basics of what makes a good real estate agent. And I studied this when I first got in the business because I, I studied the best in the business in our area. And I was like, how are they doing this? What makes them so good? And I remember I went to talk to the best Realtor in our town year over year for that she still is for, like 40 years. And I said, Hey, Peg, how do you do it? Like, what what are you doing? What’s your secret, and she said, You know what, Steven, there’s, there’s really no secrets except for this one thing. And she said, consistency. She’s consistent. She’s consistent with everything she does. And that really stuck with it for me, because that’s how it was as a professional athlete. It’s consistency. And it’s following a process. It’s following a plan and it’s having a coach, I can’t stress how important it is to have a coach. And maybe maybe you’re not in a position to where you’re quite ready to pay for a coach, I think it’s a great investment that gets a great return. But keep listening to keeping it real podcast, things like this, that that that is your coach, I mean, you can get carried away with too many things going after too many things. So keep, keep your focus when you’re listening to different podcasts, but have a plan and have a plan that keeps you accountable. And so if anybody listening today wants to have we have all our agents on the team they follow. It’s our Power Hour tracker. And sometimes it goes more than an hour a day, but it it has the key elements to our success built into it. And then it makes it so that we stay focused during that hour to achieve those things. And then from there, it’s like you work with your clients or showing properties and so forth. But you start with this. And from there, that’s where all your success comes from. So it’s our power tracker. I’m happy to share that. But to go back to about from cycling to real estate. I’m very lucky in the fact that I was able to have a career such as cycling because it did give me a little bit of an advantage with knowing you can work your butt off and still get no results. You can pound your head against the wall and still not win a race. Same thing with real estate and the best real estate agents out there. They’re the best at getting back up. Because they know, the sooner they get back up, the sooner they’re going to have their next success. And then they’re going to animate it wrong as they go. So I obsess over listing presentations, I could not stand how many I lost in the beginning, because, you know, I’m competing against like, PE, again, so forth. And now I don’t lose them. I mean, I just got another one where I was competing against, you know, the top agent in the town, and I get them at 6%. Sometimes they get them at 7%. So it’s, it’s just, it’s, it’s that whole coaching athlete mentality, where you’re tweaking your performance, you’re tweaking what’s going on, you’re working with the plan, you’re making it better year after year, and you’re improving on it in the best you can, and not getting down when you get knocked down. Because let’s face it, real estate can be a losing sport. And it’s not easy. It’s very hard. But there’s a lot of rewards that come with that that hardens, you know, and it’s, there’s a lot of positives, otherwise I wouldn’t be doing it.

D.J. Paris 16:05
Now, there’s a couple a couple of couple things I want to I want to pause on only be gone forever. Oh, no, no, no, you were doing perfect. I just there, I had a bunch of thoughts as you were talking, because you said a lot of really, really great things there. And I just want to make sure that we we pause and step on them for a little bit for the audience. First of all, you mentioned sharing your Power Hour information. What’s the best way that one of our listeners? And by the way, everybody should do this right now? So I want to say it before I forget, what’s the best way they can reach out to get that information?

Steven Cozza 16:37
For sure, yeah, just email me s because the homes.com is the best way you can email me and we’ll get it right back to you.

D.J. Paris 16:45
Great, we’ll have a link to that in the show description and notes as well. Also, this, this idea of being coachable. You know, it’s something that that I, the times I’ve had athletes on the show like yourself, they’ve all said this, and it’s really important, we sort of forget that every professional athlete, I can’t think of an exception to this, there probably is one or two, but 99% of professional athletes have coaches, right? Maybe it’s 100%. But certainly even the most elite, the people at the very, very, very top of that whatever mountain, you know, particular mountain, they are climbing, they still have somebody watching going, oh, you know, maybe do this instead of that and stay on target. And one of the things that reminded me, you talked about getting a coach and I just wanted to share this suggestion as well. What if I can’t afford a coach right now, and I don’t know, there’s always that you can’t afford not to Okay, that’s fine. But sometimes people literally just can’t afford to do it. And so I was thinking of a story, Brian Buffini would tell when he couldn’t afford to have a coach or couldn’t find one. He actually was a guy here in Chicago. He befriended this guy in Chicago, Joanie ago, and they were each other’s accountability partner. And every day, they would call each other at night and go, did you win the day, and they had their own, you know, sort of whatever winning the day meant to both of them. And so that was a free thing that they did. And you can certainly, at least find somebody in your local market to help with that. But ideally, hiring a coach would be sort of, you know, even better than that. I did want to mention just a couple other quick quick things, I definitely want to ask you about any listing presentation, suggestions you might have, we won’t go to that quite yet. But I definitely want to hear you know how you’ve become better because you obsess about those. But I also think back to the athlete thing, this idea of failing is is so scary to us, right? We’re afraid of it. It’s the reason why we don’t pick up phones and and make certain phone calls. It’s it’s the reason that probably holds us back. Because nobody likes to be rejected. No one likes to fail. Athletes, though, get a lot of experience not winning, because of course, that’s the pathway to winning is actually failing. And so how important is it to be able to take the L and to it and to not let it defeat you. And as you said, it’s about getting back up. But how important is it to learn how to get comfortable taking the loss every so often?

Steven Cozza 19:07
Yeah, I mean, I would say, yeah, it’s not an easy thing to get comfortable with it. It’s hard. But the way I look at it, when I when I have a loss, I look at what I can do differently. And then use it as a positive because you learn from your losses. If you don’t have your losses, you’re not learning and nothing comes easy. I mean, well in cycling there in professional sports, there’s always the performing the dopers and stuff that people who are going to cheat in real estate and i By the way, I never took performance enhancing drugs otherwise, I probably wouldn’t need to be selling real estate. But but it does happen and with with real estate, there’s no quick way to the top. So you’re going to lose in if you are like on a team and they’re giving you all the leads, you’re never going to learn how to get them yourself and if you ever want to go somewhere else, you’re not going to have that so I would say the only one is the hardest way in real estate and it’s worth it. And through guests like this, you’re going to learn the systems and processes that help you steer, and in a better way. So Well, thank

D.J. Paris 20:12
you. By the way, I also forgot to say thank you so much for the wonderful plug you gave just a little bit ago to our, to our show, I am too, too humble sometimes to even ask for our audience to participate here with our show. But I appreciate you seeing the value in this and also being of service to our audience and sharing. But yeah, I’m sorry, go back to sort of being an athlete. So we understand you have this. We, you know, you’re talking about consistency. And we can certainly dive into what does that actually look like for you? What are the key? Actually, let’s just start there. What are the key behaviors? or activities that help? Sorry, that are the ones you need to be the most consistent on? Even today? How are those essentially similar to when you started or they changed over time?

Steven Cozza 21:02
That’s a great question. Um, so what is that? What is consistency mean? What are the activities and so forth? And how have they changed? So I would say, for us, for me, for the team, for actually every real estate agent, if, if you’re trying something, and it’s not working? Well, a lot of times, it’s not working, because you haven’t done it long enough. But you need to, you need to stick through it, stick with it. And so I’ve always, I’ve always set goals, you know, my first was going back to cycling, I said, If I don’t become a professional cyclist, by the time I’m 23, I’m gonna have to go to college. So that put this like pressure on me to, to be consistent to be following the process. And then same with real estate. I said, If I don’t, if I’m not making you know, what the top 20% are making within the first three years of the business, I’m going to stop and I’m gonna go to school become a firefighter. So I put that pressure on myself. And I think the same thing goes with like any prospecting plan that you set out to do, give yourself time instead of reasonable time. So like, if my farming this market farming this neighborhood, if that doesn’t provide results, within three years, that’s what I did. One of my first prospecting thing was farming, the neighborhood I lived in. And I still do it to this day have expanded, of course, but um, it took me I would say, it took me two, three years before I got a listing or any action from that farm and guess what I had to do? every quarter, every quarter, I would hand deliver 1000 printed newsletters, and they’re 11 by 11. By 17, you know, open fold. And it wasn’t just about real estate. This was you know, it touched on real estate, of course, but it was very community based, very, very localized. We did, we in our town, and there’s a river that comes through it. We did Petaluma River cleanups, we did neighborhood garage sale day. So it’s like a trail, you know, trying to list and you have all the garage sales, and it’s fun, like, you know, tons of homes do it. And there’s all these garage sales all over the area. We always had, you know, posted the events and things we were doing. So that took me three years before I got business. And now I’ve made hundreds and hundreds of 1000s of dollars off that farm. I’ve had some sellers come out of that. And they’ve done four or five transactions with me now and they’ve referred the other people and it’s like this tree. I remember I took out my real estate license through John Ludlow. He’s not he’s not alive anymore. I mean, gosh, it was back in 2012. It was practically I think we’re using VHS tapes to do it. But he said he said, Do something in start off with a farm. And I know it sounds old fashioned, but I’m telling you, it’s connecting, and I would just hand drop under the max, I would not knock on doors. It’s 1000 homes, right walking in. Now we mail. But I still think that connection being out in the community, I met so many people while I was doing that. So consistency, don’t give up.

D.J. Paris 24:01
Well, I want to I want to point out this idea because I was you had mentioned that you were handing them out and then then you were mentioning there’s other ways to which you were participating in the community doing volunteer efforts, you know, helping with garage sales, and you know, just just anything you can do to get your name out there and at the same time, hand delivering 1000 1000 You know, newsletters which were which was actually I liked the idea that you did them bigger than the standard size to just makes it a little bit you know, more interesting to hold and sort of harder to immediately throw away maybe, but the idea of putting the work in is you know, I am hearing just obviously as a professional athlete, you’re putting in a lot of reps you’re you’re practicing you’re practicing fundamentals and and advanced strategies to but always going back to those you know, cycling is no well I know nothing about cycling personally, but I’m assuming it’s no different from so many other sports where it’s just a lot of practice, of course, so it’s got to be but it still leaping to reflect on but the idea of just repetition and reps, doing the reps and seeing those, and then and then by the way, not looking at it a year in going, Gosh, you know, no results, I’ve got nothing. And you’re like, I still got to stand out 1000 More of these next month, and I’m going to keep doing it until I get results. Because obviously, we know that that pathway should work over time, we know that it’s not, it’s not really a risky thing. It’s just a lot of a lot of time, a lot of effort. And look, and it worked out for you hundreds of 1000s of dollars in commissions. And it’s also something that as an athlete, you just get you understand the work that’s, that’s needed. So this is just like putting in your, your reps at the gym.

Steven Cozza 25:43
Totally. And when I started that farm, I, I ran it up on a credit card, but I’ll tell you, I mean, print printing is so cheap, you know, you print 1000 brochures, it’s super cheap. And John Ludlow said, you know, he said quality over quantity, you know, so he said His thing was go to 250 homes around you and not and really establish those connections. I’m not a real knock or cold call kind of I just, I know I need to move in that direction, I need to become more personal or more Ford. But I’m definitely I don’t want to I don’t like when people knock on my door. So I don’t really want to do it. And you know, it just worked the way I did it. And so, but yeah, like you said repetition. And here’s another really important thing, you only can do so much, my coach would always tell me, he said the best, the best realtors in the business, they have three to five prospecting methods, he said, Stephen, start off with two to three, build them out, build a fence around them. So they’re like their own little ecosystem, they’re working for them, you know, for you. And then you can add on more, but first dollar amounts around it, make it bomb proof, and then go to your next one. And not all prospecting methods have to cost money either. So, you know, speaking to like social media there. So if you’re new in the business, and you’re, you’re you’re you’re not, you don’t have a lot of funds, you know, own own the social media world, you know, that can that alone, that and of course open houses, that’s a given. But, um, as far as the print stuff, you just got to think about the return on your investment, you know, if you get one deal, is it going to cover, you know, and then how much how many deals you’re going to get over time, you know, of course, your career. So,

D.J. Paris 27:26
yeah, those those are really, really great strategies and also to like the idea of doing these volunteer, you know, community outreach kind of programs, oftentimes can be low cost to no cost, right. Like, if you’re offering to volunteer to clean up, you know, like, like a river or some waterway, or you know, a stretch of the highway or, or anything or volunteering at a local you know, shelter or whatever. Those things are usually low cost, because if you do invite your your audience I went to Sorry, I interrupted myself, but I went to one of the very best of those that I’ve witnessed, it was a compass agent of all things here in Chicago. By the way, I also want to do a quick plug for something and I can’t remember the gentleman’s name who runs it, but if you are a compass agent, and we know there’s a lot of you that listen, because we’ve had a million compass agents on our show, because they’re just you know, taking over but there’s a great thing called the 6am or club, which Yeah, which is the gentleman that runs

Steven Cozza 28:32
Michael’s SkyMiles he’s one Yeah, he’s great. He does momentum Monday to so he’s a free coach for Compass and I’ve gotten so many golden nuggets from him it’s it’s incredible

D.J. Paris 28:44
and little plug for my interview with Sky Michaels just one of the one of the neatest guys I’ve ever had on our show. And if you’re a compass person, please take advantage of that you’re very lucky to have not used Steven but the company is very lucky to have sky so please check out the six eight numbers club also maybe if you’re interested in not that I get paid to promote compass as a company but a good reason to consider them if you need some accountability. They’ve got a fun little way to do that. So anyway, but back back of course to Steve and I we I’d be remiss if we didn’t mention your your amazing team as well. It’s not just you, you have a wonderful group of people around you can you tell us a little bit about the team and and sort of why you developed one.

Steven Cozza 29:26
Absolutely. Real quick back to that the newsletter this is just in the volunteering thing. This is just a very basic thing but this shows you the power of that farm you can take a great nonprofit in the area and you can go to them so like we have mentor me, or relief Petaluma and you can say hey mentor me what are some what’s a fundraiser coming up or something that we can promote in our newsletters for you? And we do it for free? You know, and then of course so that’s great because you’re you’re doing something different you’re you’re our whole Why is giving back you know our team why So you’re connecting with this whole organization by promoting them. And now, our newsletter goes out to 10,000 homes. So these these charities, these people are really benefiting from what we’re doing. So it’s like, it’s like killing two birds with one stone, right. And so we always try to do that we also have our preferred lender, he advertises in it, he’s got his little section, so he helps pay for it. So think of stuff like that you can as service providers pay for a lot of stuff. So yeah, about the team. Having a team has been a huge thing for the coza team, of course, like turning it into that has made a big difference in my life, and then, of course, in their lives as well. I was a workaholic, the first, I would say, because I’ve been in the business, I ended up going through a divorce, it really tax my life. And that was obviously my own choice to be a workaholic, I could have, you know, backed it down. But my coach, when I finally had a good coach, he taught me how to have systems and how to build a team. And so we’ve got our marketing, the first person I hired was a marketing person. And I don’t know if that’s very common, but I realized, well, you know, I can handle working with clients, but the back end marketing stuff, the social media, all that. That’s where we’re getting our dips in business. So we hired a marketing lady, who now has a real estate license and our business more than doubled. After that, like that, it totally, it doubled. That was the year our business doubled. So

D.J. Paris 31:32
did you know that that was Did you know that hiring a marketing person was you know, that or not not hiring market, but identifying that that was that that’s where the hole was in the business to fill that, that you can’t do everything and be everything as as a solo practitioner, obviously, there’s going to be things that you enjoy doing or that you’re good at, and other things that aren’t necessarily easy for you to do, or that you want to do?

Steven Cozza 31:58
Totally, yeah, it was the consistency thing I kept going back to what peg told me in the beginning, you got to be consistent. And that’s where I was I was lacking was the consistency with my with the marketing the prospecting with the stuff that I didn’t do personally. And my coach said, we’ll calculate how much you make an hour, you know, find out what you make an hour. And then ask yourself if it’s worth spending your time on that. And if it’s not, then hire someone to do it. That was really, I would say, a change in point in my career was when I started treating my business like a business. Because far, often, too many times, as agents, we get stuck in the business, we got to we got to step out of it and work on our business. So I recommend anybody listening, take an hour a day, you can always find after you do your power hour or before you do your power spin an hour, too. So there’s two hours there now spend an hour working on your business, not in your business. And once you start working on your business, on a daily basis, that’s where you’re going to start seeing a lot of growth, because you’re not going to be stuck in it. When you’re stuck in it. That’s when you start to see these big dips and slow periods. But when you when you really work on your business, that’s where you start to grow, and consistently have business. That’s what I realized, at least.

D.J. Paris 33:18
You know, I remember learning in college, there’s a Stephen Covey book, I can’t remember if it’s first things first or highly the, you know, Habits of Highly Successful People, whatever it was, he had this matrix that I thought was, it’s something’s very hard to hard to do. I think for me, but really, really important that I think sort of speaks to what you just said, which is he called it the urgency versus importance matrix, which is really just for four boxes, you know, something comes at you, you put it in one of these four boxes, and that gives you an idea of how and when to respond to it. So it’s just because something flies at you in the form of an email, a text a phone call, doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s urgent. It means it feels urgent because it just came in we see it we’re, you know, our brains are wired to want to fix solve problems, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the best course of action at that particular time. And you just sort of run it through, like how important is this? How urgent is it? And then you decide when and when to respond back to it. I imagine as an athlete, you you were constantly having to evaluate, you know, especially, you know, while you’re racing, you know, what’s important, what’s urgent, what do I need to take action on now? What adjustments do I need to make? And there’s probably you probably also learned just really great decision making strategies. When you’re competing at that level. It’s all about making decisions in the moment that are best for you best for the team. Can you talk a little bit about undersea? You know, when things fly at you? How do you sort of determine this? I gotta reply to right away, or this this can hold off even though this might seem urgent in the moment. How do I you know, how do you make those decisions?

Steven Cozza 34:53
Well, I gotta tell you, I’m still kind of learning that in real estate and cycling it was pretty easy because it was one focus. It’s like everything’s recycling was real estate. Everything’s real estate, but there’s volunteering, there’s this, there’s that there’s all these different things that call for your attention or, you know, trying to do too much. And so I’m still learning that but something that I recently heard Warren Buffett’s while he so the story goes, he was in his private jet. And he, the pilot is pilot asked him, hey, Warren, how do you prioritize your time, and Warren goes well, to the most 25 things to you in your life. And you want to be a better father, you want to be better at selling real estate, you want to be healthier, more, you know, more fitness, take 25 of those things, and make a list of it. And, and Warren goes, Okay, now that you have that list of 25 things, take five of them, take the top five of those 25 and make a list of the top five. And then now Warren goes, Okay, now that you have the top five things you want to achieve, or do or be in your life, take those other 20 and throw. Because life is finite, we have enough time, he says if you can just focus on those five things, you’re going to do the best you can add on and maybe by the time you die, you’ll be able to achieve or maybe you won’t, but at least you’re going to know you did your best. But if you have the other 20, there, you’re not going to be good at anything. So that really hit me hard because I was such a scattered doing agent in the beginning. And I think it was okay in the beginning, but from my life, it wasn’t okay. And for other things that are really important to me outside of real estate, it was not okay, so now I’ve got more of a grip on that, and I’m doing what he says to do. Taking Warren Buffett’s advice there.

D.J. Paris 36:47
It’s that is a great a great, a great lesson, a great strategy. And so 100% true with what I’ve seen is that you really can only be good at a couple of things in life anyway, if you really as you know, as an athlete, you know, you could probably be as effective as a as a competitive cyclist versus Oh, I also want to play baseball and kind of do those things at the same time. Obviously, that’s that’d be almost impossible, if not impossible to be at the level that you could be if you just focused on one. So I totally understand that. And athletes do get that they understand, they have to sort of put again, I’m speaking as a professional athlete, which I am not, but putting the blinders on. And literally just doing what’s right in front of them that they know is going to guarantee success and realtors have to wear a million different hats, like you were saying. So it is tough, because it isn’t a singular either are, oh my gosh, I have to you know, take care of the marketing for my business, I have to take care of the customer service, I have to, you know, also these things are flying at me in real time that I have to reply to. So it is it is tough. And we acknowledge that challenge. And that’s why you know, I suffer,

Steven Cozza 37:55
I suffer from ADHD too. So it’s like, I’ve got that added element of hardship in which social media now and all this stuff. So you really got to learn the skills to focus on one thing at a time.

D.J. Paris 38:08
I love that it’s so it’s so funny, because I think when we talk, whenever I’ve had a professional athlete on, there’s that fantasy part of me that goes they’re going to know something I have never heard before. And that’s going to be the key that our audience is going to be like, ah, that’s it. And it’s it’s not that those things don’t exist, it’s that they do exist those things, and they are what we already know and just need to be reminded of which is fundamentals, discipline habit, you know, and staying on target and have and being coachable. Having a coach, do you find that that you are as coachable today, as you were when you started and really needed probably more help to get your business off the ground than you need today? Are you do you feel like you’re just as coachable today as you were then?

Steven Cozza 38:57
Yeah, I think so I get my I have to be careful because continued education is an important part of every week of my my business. But I gotta be careful with there’s so many trainings with Compass, they have so many trainings, they have the compass Academy, and it’s limitless, so I have to kind of pick and choose. So sometimes I’ll do Mondays. I like the podcasts, like keeping it real because you can sit in your car and going driving from one thing to the next. But it can really eat up a lot of your time. So if I can’t drive and listen to it, it’s kind of a challenge because once I’m in the office, I don’t have a lot of time to sit there. So I would say my coaching now is our podcast, like keeping it real. Those are kind of the momentum Mondays too. They keep me on my toes, but I try to grab a little golden nuggets here and there and not so much new prospecting ideas, but things to say like different scripts, you know, different ways to talk to clients and you know, all different types of stuff. So it’s not just about more prospecting Some things it’s there’s little things you can learn that make a big difference like the gal you had on the other day, who did 55 deals in two years that she does the VA stuff ally? I forget her name, but probably the agent. Yeah, yeah, I got her checklist. And, you know, we use checklists, too. So it was cool to see what the differences were there. But I loved her part about the frequently asked question, the videos, we’re totally going to do that. And we’re going to, we’re going to also post them on social media as well, just because we’re always looking for good video content. And, and so, and we, you know, I went through that actually went through, you’ve had her on Kim Rittenberg. Yeah, I took her video making course, I’m always trying to learn and get better. And taking her video making course was great. So kind of like one thing leads to the next. And before you know it, you’re just like this, like amazing, top notch realtor that that really knows their stuff. And people start to see you as like the expert in the field, and someone who really knows what they’re doing. That’s awesome.

D.J. Paris 41:04
I want to honor you for something you said at the at the beginning, which is related to this about being coachable is you went to the most successful agents in your area, and said, Hey, I’d love to chat with you and just get a sense now really, what you’re doing is going to the competition and saying, Hey, tell me what you do differently. So I can learn. And you know what? The top agent in your area said, Yeah, I’ll tell you, because, you know, she, out of the goodness of her heart doesn’t see other agencies competition, I’m sort of just putting myself in her mind, I could be wrong. But I have found that really, it is not uncommon that I bring on a top producer who gives that exact same idea of when I first started, I went to the top people and I said, Well, how are you? How are you doing? This? Is it this whole podcast is exactly that idea to and you know what we I never get to know. I mean, maybe once once a year somebody says, then I don’t really want to talk about talking to you know, your audience about what I do. Everyone else is like, yeah, totally just tell everything. And understanding that people in their market are also going to hear this, and possibly, you know, be more competition for them. But I find that that top agents are typically really, really, like, really generous with their time. You’re being generous with your time here as well. So I just wanted to give you a shout out for, for doing that.

Steven Cozza 42:19
Yeah, it’s important. I knew it was kind of like the only way to, you know, to really last record, I didn’t have a lot of time, I had a credit thing going up. I had started, you know, and so I’m like, I gotta What do I need to do? Just tell me people

D.J. Paris 42:33
probably saved. And you had you at a time? Yeah. You said you had a three year timeline of being a top 20% Producer within three years. That is a an aggressive, aggressive goal. But But you made it and and you’ve continued to do much, even much, much better than that even. But this idea of that is talking to a top producer helps. Like you said, it’s saved you probably years of trial and error, I would assume.

Steven Cozza 43:00
Oh, yeah, let me tell you every so setting goals are really important. Obviously, business plans are very important. Every time I’ve set one of those limits, like I got to do it by this point, I’ve somehow always hit it. And it’s like, I even forget about it sometimes. But like this year, we hit a million GCI. So that was pretty, that was amazing. You know, I wanted to do that by 2023. I made that goal like seven or something years ago, I wanted to be the top in our office, we hit that, I hit that. But the biggest thing, so real quick, because I know, I know, we have limited time. But when you when you talk about like learning from other agents, that compass I’ve learned from them too, because they use statistics. And Scott Michaels taught a class on business planning, which I teach to my agents now too. And if anybody wants help with business planning, I’ve got the stuff to send to you. So it’s part of the power tracker, but I’ll send the other stuff too. And what we learned from the stats that compass was producing was that out of the it was 95 agents that decided not to follow the business plan. 95% of agents do not follow their business plan throughout the year. And 5% do the 5%, who did follow their business plan throughout the year, made as much as the 95% made selling real estate. Wow. So that’s really huge data that’s pretty impactful information. And it kind of tells you something like business plans are important, you know, so, and there is some

D.J. Paris 44:34
there is something kind of invisible and magical about writing down a goal and like you said, maybe not even reviewing it every day, every month every quarter, maybe not reviewing it at all, but getting it written down at least once. There is and I’ve seen different stats on on goal setting and you know, you never know what to believe or what not to believe, but it certainly can’t hurt to write down your goals and And even if you never look at him again, but you’re right, there is something that sometimes like, you can’t really explain why just writing it down seems to sort of manifest it. I mean, there’s lots of ideas about why, but you’re right. It’s weird.

Steven Cozza 45:14
It’s weird. Like I did the ninja ninja agent training,

D.J. Paris 45:18
I could just sell like,

Steven Cozza 45:20
Ninja sign. And that was cool. I did that years ago. And they had you write down, I will make I will make and I was writing, I said, I want to make at the time I put $350,000 a year, I want to make three. And if you do that, and I wrote that down, and you have to write it down like on like five pages, like hundreds of times, I want to make 350,000 And just keep writing it. And, and I and I did the next year, that’s what I did. And it was like, it was like exactly that number. It was like within like 1000 bucks it was. So I we do that every year now we write down what we want to make at the start in the business plan. And we keep it. And it’s so bizarre, but it works. So manifestation positive energy, all that stuff gets your flow going, it’s all good.

D.J. Paris 46:02
That seems to activate something in the brain, where the brain says, you know, again, whatever you believe whatever anybody believes spiritually or philosophically about, you know, we’ll you know, we’re not here to debate that. But there is something that seems to happen, the brain somehow learns that, oh, this is what we’re aiming for. And unconsciously behind the scenes, it starts to figure out ways to bring that into one’s life, if it’s a realistic idea, I guess. And it’s, again, my thought about whether you believe in goal setting, or this magical things that can happen or not is what’s the harm in writing it down, you know, several 100 times. I mean, clearly ninja selling is a very well respected training program in this industry. And it’s not because it doesn’t work. It must work to be as successful as it is. So I love that. Thank you. For that I wanted to I wanted to ask about listing presentations only, because at the beginning, you did mention that that was a major focus for you was being obsessed with with that, which again, is a great thing in my mind to be obsessed with because of course, everybody wants listings. And if you are going to expect a high close ratio, when you have listing appointments, you better have a pretty darn good listing presentation, because you could make the assumption that every time you go to a listing presentation, there’s also another agent you might be competing with. It’s just a great thing to always and your competitor, so used to competing. So I’m curious about you know, just you don’t have to give away all your secrets, of course, but how do you approach a listing presentation that you think might be different from your competitors?

Steven Cozza 47:36
Yeah, well, you know, you think about what a seller really needs and wants and every seller is going to be different I started to learn based off of their personality. So first thing is is we send out a seller questionnaire and the seller questionnaire is in it I always send like this pre email before the appointment as like a reminder with the seller questionnaire, they fill it out, and it gives me a really good head start on understanding you know, things about the house, things about them things about what they want, you know, their needs are the most important thing, right. So if you can figure out in the personality test that disc test, I’m sure a lot of you have heard of the disc test, di SD, learn that, study it, do it on yourself, do it on your kids, do it on your wife, husband, partner, and really learn how to read people’s personalities because that’s the most important thing when you get into a listing presentation. It’s not about selling yourself or your company. It’s about when you leave that listing presentation, then say man, I liked that person, I want to be friends with them, but also them feeling like you were able to speak their language like they’ve been heard. So if it’s a C type personality, it’s going to be more like an engineer calculative you know, wants to see stats and numbers. If you can speak that language, you’re going to make them feel safer if it’s a it personality eyes and S’s are my favorite because S’s are like, you know, nurses or teachers, they’re, they’re motherly eyes are like you they’ll meet everybody at the bar and get their name, they just want to sit down and drink tea. All those things are important and then on top of it getting better at listening, so you can’t understand anything about what they need or want if you can’t hear what they’re saying. So listen, and by listening it it gives them by listen lit when you listen more you control the situation. So listening you get more information. And then last but not least, being able just to offer the most value. Because like it’s just like any trade if you have a painter that comes over and says I’m just gonna do it in one coat, it’s this price this and that. Or if you have another painter and say we have a whole team, we’re super professional, your paint job is gonna last we do an amazing job we don’t just spray and go you’re gonna go with the one even if they’re more money that’s more thorough, gives you more confidence. You know, so that’s the same thing you’ve got to offer value so for me I’m lucky with Compass we offer some the company itself gives us the tools that offer so much value. You know, starting with Compass concierge, you know, being able to remodel stuff for the people, at no expense to them until we close all that stuff, there’s so many things but have your value that you offer very clear and easy for them to see. And then the last thing is I don’t have a set commission, it’s it, the commission I charge, they have options. So depending on what fits their needs, they can choose, the lowest option is still the best option for me, it’s still 6%. But they have definite options that they can choose from. So

D.J. Paris 50:39
I like that too. Because then you you get their buy in, you get their buy in of this is what I think makes the most sense for me. It’s not a one size fits all, it allows people to, to to customize their experience with you.

Steven Cozza 50:55
And yeah, and actually, I always get three for at least 3%. So it’s five and a half percent option 6% option and a 7% option, the lowest I’ll get is 3%. For listing, buyer agent always gets two and a half percent. But yeah, when you give someone an option, there’s really no negotiating that has to really happen. They’re gonna just choose one, usually by default, and they’re all good. It’s all good value.

D.J. Paris 51:17
That is a brilliant thought I am so sorry, that didn’t even occur to me, when you give somebody an option, you just said something very profound. But it gives somebody an option and basically removes the urge to negotiate it, I guess people could still technically come back and say, well, let’s let’s, you know, let’s let’s try to negotiate because of course, that’s what people do in real estate. But it certainly reduces the frequency of those kinds of conversations. So that is a, you just said something incredibly profound. So and by the way, guys, this is why when you go to when you go to websites, and there’s usually some sort of software service offering, you will almost always see three options. And there is a reason for that. And that is not because we all want three options. It’s because the psychology of making decisions knows that three options feels optimal to the actual consumer, it feels like they have agency control power over their decision making strategy, and it makes them feel more comfortable. So anyway, just wanted to step on that for a moment. Because obviously, that is that is I’ve not I’ve never heard any of our other guests have options for listing clients. And boy, yeah, and I mentioned that on the buy side, too. It’s really bad

Steven Cozza 52:31
to have options, you got to have options in the worst options gotta be still very favorable for you. And, you know, it’s, I recommend going into negotiating, I was looking it up, it’s called the C Ren it’s, it’s C R E, it’s basically certified real estate negotiator, the C run certification. If you take that to our test class, you’ll know everything you need to know about negotiating for real estate buyers and sellers. It’s easy, I make all my agents do it. It’s amazing. So I’m not trying to sell their product or anything, but you don’t have to do all these years of learning how to negotiate, just take that two hour thing, you’ll learn all the tricks. And so yeah,

D.J. Paris 53:08
I love it. Steven, I could talk to you all day, I’m fascinated by you and I are similar beings in the way we think and act. So I could do go on and on for hours and hours, you don’t have that kind of time managing a team and managing your clients and doing all of the great things that you do for your community. And in for. And by the way, too, you know, we should mention that, you know, where Steven lives and practices, you know, Sonoma, Marin County, also, you know, parts of San Francisco Bay, if you are an agent, and you have clients, if that’s a feeder market for you, where clients are either moving from there to market or vice versa, you know, this is a great person to to connect with. Maybe you guys can trade referrals, maybe you guys could develop a and I say guys, of course, meaning any agent, men and men, men, women or other. So please reach out to Steve and if you feel that you could add value or if you’re looking for a referral partner in that area. I was I was at a breakfast yesterday with the top producing team here in Illinois. And they are in now six markets. They’ve opened offices in six markets. And they talked about the markets where they’re not they don’t have offices, and they have such strong relationships with their referral agents and partners. And you know, they said that that has been the secret to their success, because when they do refer business, they need to make sure that you know that experience is consistent, whether it’s their client or none, they referred so Stephen and his his team, our elite top, top, top white glove team. They are among the very, very, very best in their market. So please reach out to Steve and if you feel that you could maybe have a client that Steven would Be of service to our his team. Um, Steven, what’s the best way an agent who wants to connect with you? And also, you know, we talked about you have some giveaways for them with respect to some of your processes your Power Hour, which I love. What’s the best way just to remind our audience how to get that information from you?

Steven Cozza 55:19
Yeah, you can email me at SS and Sam, and then coza, my last name at coza homes always being plural.com ESCOs echoes homes.com. Or you can get me on Instagram. And I’ll get to you that way. But best way, just shoot me an email, and I’ll get all that stuff out to you. And we’re also looking to refer people in other markets too. You know, the referral business is something that I was late to the game on, it basically just started building that out and about a year ago, believe it or not, so the definitely wanting to network network more with other agents. So

D.J. Paris 55:49
yeah, yeah, and find find them on social at coza team, which is the the handle that you can find most of them, we will have links to all of their social channels on our in our show notes. And I also just want to make one final observation. And this is a a soft skill. But I think a really, really important one, whenever I am on with an agent who I can identify this particular skill, we haven’t talked about it. And I don’t know that we need to speak too much about it. But I wanted to, to, to give you a shout out want everyone to pay attention to Stephens tonality. When he talks, does he have a calming presence? Or does he have a an activating presence? To me, in my opinion, his voice, his tone, the way he communicates, is very calming and relaxing. And I will tell you that during real estate transactions, emotions run hot and cold. And they I’m not here to say one size fits all that every agent needs to be speak in the same manner that Steven speaks. But let’s remember how our voices and the way that we communicate how it impacts right the what we say we know that the data is really clear what we say not that important, how we say it critically important, like 90% of the actual effect of our communication is the way in which we say something. So the idea, I just wanted to point out that Steven has a very calming, calming voice and calming presence and you feel relaxed when you’re talking with him. And I will say that if you don’t have that reaction, when you’re with your clients, you can learn these are skills. This is not well, I was born as an activated Berserk because I’m kind of an activated person. But you can learn how to calm down how to relax and realizing how important that is to be able to communicate. So Steven, I just wanted to honor you for that it’s maybe it’s part of the California thing, you’ve got a little bit of that California relaxed. But obviously, as a professional athlete, you’re a super intense dude, it’s not that you’re not intense, you’re able, though, to focus that intensity in a way that doesn’t come across as making your clients anxious, or at least making me anxious as as the host of the show. So I applaud you for that it’s a soft skill, it’s probably not something that, you know, a lot of a lot of people would pay much attention to, but I believe it’s very important. So I you’ve been afraid?

Steven Cozza 58:12
Yeah. That’s a good, that’s a good point that you pointed out, I think, yeah, it’s, it’s, I can be very energetic too, for sure. But I think a lot of times working with clients, I always tell them, I tell my wife, gosh, I wish I was as good as with you as an with my clients because like I go into like client mode. And then it’s like, I’m very calm. And it is interesting that you bring that up. Someone a coach once told me said cut commission out of it, take it out, if you can learn to cut commission out of it and focus on what it’s going to take to get them to where they want to be and continue to tell your clients that you know what’s it going to take to get you to where you want to be. That’s what I want to do for you. Stop worrying about the commission, because that will come

D.J. Paris 58:54
perfectly said great place to end up. So everyone reach out to Steve and get some of his resources that he has so generously sharing the same resources he shares with his team. And also reach out to him if you think you could be a great referral partner. And who knows maybe down the road, if you’re an agent in that local market, maybe they will be looking for more team members. They’re not currently right now. But this is obviously the Koza team is the team to watch because they are just crushing it out there. And by the way, he is not in an easy market to compete. He is in one of the toughest markets. But that’s what a competitor loves, loves, loves a challenge. And you are already there. So congratulations on all your success. I want to say thank you on behalf of our audience to Steven and his team for taking time out today to be so generous to help our audience. So let’s all thank him by sending him some some virtual love. But also let him know what you thought about his performance on the show which of course is going to be lots of praise. So let him know how great he was here and also On behalf of Steven and myself, we want to thank you the audience, we want to say thank you for making it to the end of the episode, please tell a friend, think of one other agent that could benefit from this. You know, we know 2023 is tough. This is a tough year for every agent out there. Don’t let it don’t let anyone fool you. It’s tough. Even the ones people that are smiling are working a little harder this year than they normally would be. So let’s help our fellow agents as well rising, what do they say? What’s the expression right? A rising tide raises all ships. So let’s help the industry and help me to as well tell other agents about the podcast. We appreciate it. And I thank you in advance for that. So tell a friend and also thank you let’s let’s just say one last time. Thank you to Steven for coming on our show. Steve. It was great chatting with you. Such a pleasure and I hope to have you back in the future. Thank you.

Steven Cozza 1:00:50
Thanks so much. Thanks, TJ.

Josh Myler began his career 15 years ago in San Francisco in sales and marketing, transitioning into real estate business. Josh talks about his activities in civic and charitable organizations. Josh also discusses how grateful he feels for the success he achieved in real estate, and shares some tips on how to manage clients. Last, Josh discusses two main hats he believes every agent should wear- the one of the therapist and the one related to interior design and architecture.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Josh Myler can be reached at (323) 333-0301 and [email protected].

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
Today is all about connecting with your clients. And we’re going to show you how to deepen those relationships. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris, I’m your guide, and your host through the show, and in just a moment, we’re gonna be speaking with top producer, Josh meilleur. But before we get to Josh, just a couple of quick reminders. Please help us grow by telling a friend think of another realtor that you know, that could use some of the wisdom that Josh is about to impart to you and he is going to impart an incredible amount of wisdom to you send send somebody you know a link to this episode. Though, you can always send someone over to our website keeping it real pod.com Or any podcast app search for keeping it real. Hit that subscribe button. Leave us a review. Let us know what you think of the show and also please support our sponsors. Our sponsors are the best we love our sponsors. They are the reason we can continue to make episodes and pay our bills, check out their products and services and consider investing in them. We thoroughly vet them and only have sponsors on here that we know could actually help you grow your business. So alright guys enough for me. Let’s get to the main event. my conversation with Josh smiler.

Trade today on the show my guests Josh meilleur. With the agency in Beverly Hills, California will tell you more about Josh. Prior to joining the real estate industry Josh began his sales and marketing career 15 years ago in San Francisco in the.com. Arena, he quickly established himself as an asset to both small and large companies developing and managing sales and marketing processes for both internal and external sales teams. Josh also goes where his clients need him to go. There are a vast number of micro markets throughout Los Angeles and knowing how to define value in each of them is integral to Josh’s ability to help his clients transition from one area to another. And Josh is also very active in local schools, civic and charitable organizations. He’s a member of the National Association of Realtors, the California Association of Realtors, Beverly Hills, Greater Los Angeles Association of Realtors, and the combined la Westside MLS. He’s a top 1% producer, absolute superstar. And please visit his website, Josh meilleur.com jshmyler.com and follow him on Instagram. I’m going to spell this out but there’ll be a link to this in the show notes. Or in the description rather, Josh sale meilleur JSHSAYLEMY L E R link in the notes. Josh, welcome to the show.

Josh Myler 4:19
DJ, what a nice introduction. Thank you for that. And thank you for having me on the show. It’s a pleasure. Pleasure to meet you.

D.J. Paris 4:28
Pleasure to meet with you. We had a bit of a challenge getting us together Josh’s Mike was having some tech challenges. We had sent Josh the wrong link. And so it all sounds very calm now but Josh and I have were scrambling for for the last 20 minutes. So I appreciate Josh’s patience. He’s a he’s a good man. And we are excited to finally have you on the show. Tell us tell us the journey. i How do you get you know, it’s so funny. I always think you know there’s that Little kid, part of me that always wanted to go to Beverly Hills and be a Beverly Hills, you know, actor or, you know some sort of celebrity I think every child has some minor fantasy of that at some point in their life, and then to become a realtor and then to become a Beverly Hills realtor I always think is on there’s something kind of cute and I don’t mean cute in a pejorative way. I mean, like, in a very impressive way. I think that is, it is really a difficult place to plant your flag and to be somebody, because the competition, of course, is pretty fierce. So I’d love to hear the entire journey of how you how you got to where you are,

Josh Myler 5:38
oh, man, where, where do I begin? I really was on a very, very serious path to med school. I was pre med at Berkeley, I fought tooth and nail to get that degree. And then, you know, in the end, I just decided as I was graduating, I was going to take three months off. And I met a friend of Elon Musk’s and Elon and his brother Kimball, were starting a company there first. And they needed an analyst. And they thought, Okay, well, let’s hire this kid at UC Berkeley. And so it started as kind of like a summer gig while I was deciding whether I wanted to take the MCAT and go to med school. Long story short, that started a very sort of brief stint, I would think about five or six years in the software industry. And that’s where I cut my teeth in sales and business development. And then about three months before the.com bubble burst, I said, I’m out. I’m done. Smartest, smart man. Oh, I mean, I gotta tell you, it was very, very lucky. Because then three months later, it was all my buddies were like, We’re gonna reinvent ourselves and go, you know, do whatever it is we want to do really with our lives. And I had made that decision, really based on following my heart and saying, I really don’t like doing this, I don’t care how much money I’m going to make. And at that point, an older brother, my oldest brother actually was living in Pasadena. And I came down here just to visit him. And, you know, when I was growing up, I’m from Northern California. And so I had never somehow never spent any time in Southern California. I came down here DJ, and I was like, This is it. This city that the weather, all the obvious things about LA, I was like this place rocks. So I actually just because I had had enough money in stock options from my, you know, tech days, I just took about three months to decide what I wanted to do. And inside of that three months while I was just kind of figuring it out, a friend of a friend of mine introduced me to a woman named Best Stein, and best Stein was the general manager of the Beverly Hills Coldwell Banker office. And at the time, I was like, I’m not going to be a real estate agent. There’s no way I’m going to figure out how to get to med school I’m going to do, I talked to Beth, I talked to a few other people. And I thought I could do this, this sounds like it might indeed be a good fit. So I dive in. And I’ll never forget one of my first I was paired with a mentor. And one of my first days out, you know, showing was with my mentor, and it was like training day, we get in the car

D.J. Paris 8:55
to go gun. It hands me

Josh Myler 8:57
a gun, and a joint. And anyway, yada yada yada. We ended up walking to house and the showing was with Tommy Lee. Oh, my goodness. And I didn’t he didn’t tell me who we were going to see. We just want to give

D.J. Paris 9:15
you the heads up that one of the most famous rock drummers of all time, you’re about to walk into it. And in one of the one of the craziest personas totally, you know, a public crazy persona.

Josh Myler 9:28
Yeah, yes. And it was wild just to be again, as you just touched on a moment ago, to be all of a sudden throwing myself into real estate, throwing myself into Beverly Hills real estate and then the first showing really I go on with my mentor is with just a mega Rockstar. It was just a great fun day. And I thought to myself, Okay, I could do this, I could do this. Now of course the the preceding You know, five years, we’re not Tommy Lee and rockstars it was getting down and dirty, and earning my my stripes and you know, keeping my head down, making all the calls sending all the emails networking in the way that you know, a new agent should.

D.J. Paris 10:22
It’s a pretty incredible switch, though. Oh, by the way, I just want to add, I’m gonna I’m gonna one up your your it’s not even a one up. It’s a silly story. But my mom, funny enough, my mom, this is 20 plus years. This is during the Dr. Feelgood album year. So I’m going to say this is probably 1992 1993. Something around that that time I was in high school. My mom was here in Chicago. I’m sorry, the audience. This is the silliest story that ever happened to our family. My mom is at this very fancy hotel waiting for friends called the Drake here in Chicago. It’s like this world renowned hotel, and it’s a really fancy and whatever. So my mom’s sitting waiting. My mom’s very, very much a lady. By the way. I remember preface this by saying my mom is very much a lady. This, this disheveled gentleman comes over to her and and pays her a very nice compliment. And my mom recognizes that he is probably some sort of celebrity well, because of the way he’s dressed, but he sort of looks a little bit out of it. And it turns out it was Vince Neil of Motley Crue. And he had he gave her his phone number and he gave her Oh, wow. Very, very, very polite. He was very polite. He was very nice. But my mom, I think I think I just got a hit on by a rock star. Many, many, many, many moons ago. But I guess we both have a motley crew connection.

Josh Myler 11:50
Yeah, seriously, I mean, so silly, in the 90s to me, but what I am

D.J. Paris 11:57
interested in you in your in sort of the switch on your life path, because I too, went into college with a desire to possibly become a doctor and I bailed out pretty fast, you went all the way through, you did the organic, inorganic chemistry stuff, you did the hardest part, the worst. And the worst, the worst, you had the worst time in college, because of all the studying you had to do that everyone else didn’t have to do. And going on to that path, the MCAT then of course, in med school, and then getting into technology with, you know, with with the masks, and and then you know, getting out of technology and now into real estate. That is those are big swing right there.

Josh Myler 12:44
Yeah, very circuitous. As I say. And I gotta tell you, TJ wouldn’t do it any other way. I wouldn’t change a thing. You know, there are moments where I look back, or moments when I’m driving around, as I you know, as most real estate agents, do, we live on our cars. And I’ll be driving around the city. And I feel very blessed to be able to do the what I do, and I feel very grateful for the success that I’ve had. Yet still, I have these moments where I think I would have been an amazing doctor. I don’t mean that I don’t mean to sound like a jerk. I really do. I was thinking pediatrics or cardiology. And by the way, what was driving that part of me is my dad was a cardiologist. My mom was a retired nurse. So I grew up around the hospital. So there was that. And I do have that sort of mid second heart paying for maybe what could be but the truth be told, I really wouldn’t change a thing and the path that took me through, you know, software sales and high tech, straight into real estate. It’s funny, but I guess we all have our journey. Right? And although

D.J. Paris 13:55
it sort of sounds like you have a little bit of that, that he called that servant’s heart, right like that. I’m here to serve, I’m here to, to, to be of service horse. People who have that tend to be attracted to healthcare, real estate, you know, lots of industries, actually. So it seems like it actually would be probably a pretty good fit. Yeah. And

Josh Myler 14:17
I actually have a note on that I was just listening to a podcast with a guy named Michael singer. And he was talking about the pursuit of happiness and how we achieve ultimate happiness. And there are a number of answers there a million answers to that one is be of service, get out of your head, get out of your day, whatever kind of doom and gloom you’re experiencing in that moment, and go make sure someone else is happy. Go make sure you are doing the best you can to help someone else. And that is in my view, and for me has been a great source of happiness. The other thing that he said that I thought and this is DJ just a side note that I thought was interesting is He said that in all the studies that he did, that happiness for a lot of people comes from getting what you want, right? Most people would say if they get what they want, they’re happy. And he argues that, you know, getting what you want is a moving target. And so if you are going after something that’s a moving target, it’s always changing, you’re never really going to be happy. And then from a sort of more ethereal place, he talks about how inside of all of us, is this river happiness. And if we just succumb to it, jump in the river and drown in happiness. It’s there, instead of make it don’t make it conditional. So anyway, that’s a side note. And that’s part of what kind of drives me in this business, just to segue back is, you know, we all have hard days, we all have those shitty days that, you know, prevent us from getting out of bed. And one thing that really has helped, is focusing for me on my clients, it’s never about the deal. I mean, sure, it’s fun to do transactions, it’s great to get in the, you know, in the, in the depths of that deep end of the pool, if you will, with the other agent, we’re going back and forth, and negotiating. The search is also fun, right. But the matchmaking and the figuring out how there really is a buyer for every house and a house for every buyer. And then even more so seeing the look on that person’s face when they find just how to yesterday, someone walked into a house, one of my houses were my listings. And she kind of whispered, she didn’t think I could hear she whispered to her agent. So Should I just tell him should I tell him? This is the one. And she walked into the kitchen where I was standing. She looked at me and she had those eyes, those eyes that I just love, which is this is the one how do we make this work? It’s the best. And of course, that’s just the beginning, right? You got to get through the escrow, you got to close the deal. But there is really nothing like making someone happy. And, and being a part of that process.

D.J. Paris 17:18
There’s something to the magic that you just very, very elegantly described. And I’m glad and I was I was there in that room as you were describing it. And I appreciate you, you doing so. Because I think that’s, you know, some of the intangibles that we don’t talk about a lot on the show, we talk a lot about strategy and that’s great. But being able to bank some of those experiences to remind ourselves when times are maybe more challenging that this is what can happen you know, seeing somebody’s eyes light up making the transaction happen maybe even a first time homebuyer, you know, going from renting or purchasing is quite a quite a day. So there’s a lot of accomplishment and fulfillment and happiness. You know, you’re talking about Michael singer, by the way, if anyone isn’t familiar with Michael singer read the book, read books that he have, he has written because it is a fascinating story of technology guy who is also spiritually bent and trying to figure out how to be in both worlds at the same time. And he is probably does it better. He probably did it better than anyone I know.

Josh Myler 18:33
Yeah. The Untethered Soul the

D.J. Paris 18:35
Untethered Soul? Yes,

Josh Myler 18:37
that’s a great book.

D.J. Paris 18:39
Yeah, so let’s, um, but but let let, I would, you know, I do love the fact that you are connected. And I think that’s really important. How important is it for you, again, we know that there’s mechanics associated with a real estate transaction. There’s negotiating there’s there’s a lot of there’s numbers, there’s, there’s a lot there, but you’re you’re really clued into, you know, the experience, I think of the buyer and the seller. And I’m curious, I want to talk about that, because you play in a slightly different, slightly different level. You know, you’re working with high net worth individuals. These are Beverly Hills, you know, places, these are nice homes. What’s different about working with sort of that kind of clientele versus, you know, a lay person who’s, you know, not living in Beverly Hills?

Josh Myler 19:37
Yeah, it’s a great question. I think that it’s probably the number one thing I think about when you ask that question. DJ is experience, you know, the more high net worth people. This typically isn’t their first rodeo, right? So there’s, there’s less hand holding in one way, but there’s always hand holding, right? A first timer. is going to be fearful of things that are different than the guy who or the or the person who is more experienced in the realm of doing the deal. So an example of that is, you know, first I’ve got a couple right now who, you know, they’re getting beat out beaten by all these other cash buyers. They’re getting financing. And I think we’ve written four offers now, and they just can’t figure out how to win and the fatigue is setting in. And all the while, I’m kind of, in a way, smiling on the inside, because I’m watching the evolution of their experience happened before my eyes. It’s heartbreaking to lose what you think is the one. But I know better. And they are starting to learn what that process is like. And I’m such a believer I call it fatalistic, or what have you. But for better or worse, I’m a huge believer, because I’ve seen it, and I’ve experienced it, that there truly is when it’s right. And they’re ready and the house is ready. It’s going to be the best one of all right? So you take them through this arc of Wait, what is in escrow? And how do we do this and your teaching, which I really enjoy that process, versus someone who’s really experienced, and they get fearful of, I think, different things fearful that the other side isn’t being honest, or there is something wrong with the house that no one is going to be able to figure out and they’re not going to be able to figure out and you have to kind of coach them through more of an experience, experience perspective on fear. I would say, I really do try to make them feel like they have a guide. No matter who it is, no matter whether it’s a first time buyer or someone who’s buying their 10th house, I want them to feel like I’ve got the rudder, and we’re on the river. And we’re all on the boat, and it’s my job to keep us on the boat. Does that make sense?

D.J. Paris 22:17
It makes perfect sense. I, you know, I I’ve said this talked about this a lot on our show. So I apologize to our audience who pay me says, uh, you know, come up with something new. But for anyone who is newer to our show, you know, I had an experience two and a half years ago, where I bought a condo, it was not my first time buying a condo. And I also worked here at an agency where we have almost 800 agents. So you would think that I would, and I’m not, I’m not a practicing agent myself. But you would think with the amount of surrounding myself with agent, sort of, you know, agents are just around me all the time, whether it’s the show or my job, and I was buying a condo, and I was freaking out. And I needed somebody to, to call me down and tell me what to do. I needed a coach I needed, I needed to help her because I was I was representing myself. And I finally said, Well, this is silly, I need to have somebody else objectively looking at this, because I don’t I am way too connected. I’m way too dysregulated I am going to I was going through the ups and downs of of as a client would. And I my boss stepped in and he’s like, I’ll take I’ll take it from here. And it was it was really, really smart. Because what I think I’m curious about being able to emotionally comfort someone through a transaction. And, you know, we tend to not think of these skills as as, as important as obviously knowing the market and understanding negotiating tactics. And obviously those things are important too. But we don’t talk enough about the emotional side of it. I mean, these, these are still big purchase decisions or selling decisions for your clients, even though it’s not their first rodeo. You I assume assume oftentimes there are teams of people as well, that you have too many masters to serve. So I’m curious about how you keep everyone engaged and and moving forward?

Josh Myler 24:18
Well, I spoke on a panel fairly recently, and we you know, the question was, what are the keys to your success, and I talked about how we wear a lot of hats, as real estate agents. This is not something that is new, I’m sure to you considering how many real estate agents you are around and with whom you have conversations all the time. We do wear a lot of hats and I would say the two hats that I wear the most one therapist, right. And it’s not just therapy to our clients, it’s often keeping calm the agent on the other side Yeah, right, because we’re all in it together, you know, you’ve got a client who wants the same thing that my client wants. So let’s figure out how to, like lay down the guns and do this together. And that can be difficult, because there are as I call them out there, and I won’t name any names, the deal killers, right, the agents who, for better or worse, find a way to screw things up because of their own, the stuff that that’s going on inside of them heart and mind. So I would say that skill is something that I think can be learned. But I also think you’re born with it, it’s in your DNA, to keep everybody calm. Because it’s so DJ, it’s the most, in my view, one of the most emotionally charged endeavors is buying or selling a house, you’re dealing with people who have lived in their houses for 2030 years, sometimes, even if it’s two years, they’re just, they’ve got their identity wrapped up into this entity, because it is arguably the biggest thing they’ve ever invested in. Now they’re selling it, how much can how much am I going to get? How much it can? How much can you figure out how to get me or they’re looking to buy something, and that’s a big life change. So there’s a lot of psychology that goes into it. And then you again, you got to keep all the all the, all the bodies and minds and hearts calm on the other side. And that’s, that’s a challenge. And I feel like I’ve had a lot of success with that. You know, I have a business partner with whom I do a lot of business and you know, invariably, there’s a difficult client, you’re gonna you’re gonna have to deal with, you know, he’s not good at that. He’s not good at dealing with those humans. So he says, Send Josh into the living room. And Josh, we I it’s like, it’s like I’m the cooler. You know, like at the at the blackjack table at the blackjack table. Not a good thing. You don’t want to be the

D.J. Paris 27:14
the coolers is what when people start losing? Yes,

Josh Myler 27:17
yeah. Yeah.

D.J. Paris 27:18
But it reduces the temperature of the room. Yeah,

Josh Myler 27:22
that’s exactly right. And that’s what I have found is the key. One of the keys to my success is just keeping calm. The other hats are interior design, architecture. We’re dealing I think it’s so fascinating, because many of us don’t have law degrees, and we’re dealing with a lot of legalese. And we’re guiding people in ways that really walk that line. And, you know, I’ve learned my lesson, fortunately, have never been in a lawsuit. I don’t intend on being in a lawsuit because I’m smart enough to say, okay, that’s not my wheelhouse. I’m going to I’m going to stay in my lane, go talk to a real estate attorney. And that’s, by the way, another piece of advice I would give to any real estate agent who, you know, either just got in or who’s super experienced, I would say, know when to say when and to direct your clients, you know, to talk to a real estate attorney, because it will keep you at at a out of out of court and your clients out of court. So anyway, yes, the the therapist hat is one that I wear a lot and actually I enjoy it.

D.J. Paris 28:42
Well, you I think, you know, realtors, it’s funny, we talk a lot about skill based you know, different different skills that Realtors need, but I this idea of being able to lock in and really have a good awareness of what what the what the client needs is is not talked about as much I mean obviously we have the superficial parts where we need to know the specifics of you know what, what they want, why don’t they want to buy what they want to sell all the haves, musts, you know, and that and have nots. But then there is something about making sure that that client is is is maintaining their emotional regulation right throughout the transaction. And that’s really an important thing because it is such a stressful event. How do you how do you help clients stay calm?

Josh Myler 29:41
Well, I’ll tell you just as a quick story, this just happened yesterday. I’m not kidding. We’re representing these buyers. We keep getting keep losing out in multiples. And we were we lost this most recent one yesterday. We got the news. They didn’t select your offer. Okay. You know, boohoo, right. And we were offered the backup position. Right? My clients, you know, instinctively it was like knee jerk, no, screw them, if they didn’t want our offer, we, we don’t want anything to do with them. To which I said, Okay, hold on. And now it’s therapy, hat on, therapists hat on, let’s keep our eye on the prize. Because I have seen so many great things happen for people who didn’t get what they wanted immediately, but decided, okay, you know what, we’re going to take the backup position, and then the first position falls out, and it goes straight to the backup. And they thank me every single time, because what I did was I talked them out of letting their ego get in the way of the their them getting the prize. Right. So that’s one of the things that I say a lot is let’s, you know, stay focused and keep our eyes on the prize. And let’s not let our egos because truthfully, DJ, the person on the other side is making the decision, they’re long gone, after the escrow closes, you’re going to be in your house and joining that house, totally, with no thought about who sold it to you, or how it came to pass. So I think it’s really acknowledging when those moments happen, those those moments that are part of the human condition, those ego those getting your ego bruised. I mean, it’s it’s the most human thing ever, you know, getting getting rejected, is not a good feeling.

D.J. Paris 31:43
It’s not and is there’s a rejection component to buying and selling real estate. It’s almost like asking a girl out on a first date and having her say no, and there is a little bit of a connection there. Right. And so what we know is it doesn’t feel good to be to be put in putting in second second place. But would you say, you know, trying to help the client, understand, hey, second place isn’t so bad.

Josh Myler 32:14
No, and actually could could be the path to your succeeding. A really good friend of mine gave me the best piece of advice. He said, when when someone sends you an email, or leave you a voice message that pisses you off, that really gets you don’t respond, give it 24 hours, you know, we’ve all heard a lot of us have heard this. And it’s just the best, I mean, sometimes I’ll write the email, and I won’t say send it, you know, and then the next morning, of course, God, I’m so happy, I didn’t send that email, you know, we all we all are fallible, we all are human. And if we just give ourselves a beat, just to be to let all that stuff run through our veins, then I think we’d all be a lot more successful, we get closer to the things that we want and need. And I think we’d live a happier life.

D.J. Paris 33:14
Yeah, I always feel like there’s this, you know, anxiety that just kind of just permeates through us. And it comes out in the form of energy. And it comes out in the form of, you know, criticism or, or whatever it is, you know, it’s a hard thing for a human to endure this, this anxiety. And so we we push it out out into the world. And as a result, we make other people anxious. And you’re right, if we could all you know, take take a giant deep breath, and relax. We stay in

Josh Myler 33:46
the boat, seagulls in the boat DJ, your life is a river and it’s just a crate, there’s going to be rapids, there’s going to be maybe a waterfall. You know, just because you get your ego bruised, don’t jump out of the boat, let’s stay you know. So my job is that sort of boat captain is to keep everybody calm and prevent people from jumping in the water.

D.J. Paris 34:11
It is a really, really important and we’re speaking metaphorically but it is actual actually very practical, right? Because at the end of the day, people are you know, we have human reactions to human conditions. So we have, you know, a wrinkle happens in a transaction. And again, this is not talked about very, very often, but a wrinkle happens. The wrinkle gets smoothed out somehow. But what what we’re really we really need to do is now figure out what what was the emotional toll that that took on the client, how are they feeling? How are they doing? And, you know, you seem to have you seem to be really keyed into that. And ultimately, you’re right, we’re talking we’re really talking about feelings and how to manage mitigate feelings.

Josh Myler 34:59
That’s Right. That’s right. And of course, again, you know, I’m thinking about the more experienced buyers who are quicker to deal with the, the transactional side of the deal, but there they get every bit as emotional, sometimes more hot headed. So it’s just a different type of therapy. I mean, we’re talking about therapy a lot. But I really do think that it is such an important component to being successful as a real estate agent. And again, it’s something you can learn through trials and tribulations of doing deals and dealing with people. You know, I mentioned, you know, my wonderful buyer’s agent, his name is Evan Ferrante. And he’s a new agent. He’s been at it now two years. And we had a situation recently where Evan was doing a showing. And the house is actually occupied by a tenant who does not want to leave the house, this person knows that the house is going to sell. And she took me outside right after the showing, and just started bawling our eyes out. And so Evan calls me and I said, Welcome to the Jungle. Welcome to Real Estate, Powell. And so, you know, she’s, she’s like sobbing on his shoulder. And I’m like, so what did you do? And he said, I consoled her and told her, everything’s gonna be fine. And I, you know, if I, I mean, DJ has so many stories, so many stories. You know, like that. It’s been 20, actually 20 years, I got my license in 2003. And I think of it you mentioned 15 years earlier, I think of it as 15 years, because the first five years of that 20 was all training day, ya know, people’s thinking get.

D.J. Paris 37:05
Yeah. Trial by Fire. Yeah, I and yeah, and let’s talk about wisdom, because I think that’s, you know, you have a 20 year career, I think, when he gets 20 years, you now get to, like you were saying earlier, I’ve seen other transactions end up, you know, for example, we’re now in second place on our offer, but I’ve seen this workout where this actually might get accepted. How important is wisdom, to help, you know, keep your clients engaged.

Josh Myler 37:41
So important. I mean, you look, when we’re doing this matchmaking, when we’re putting a deal together, we’re putting two people who don’t know each other, right at all together, and we’ve got to figure out how to foster trust very quickly. In the same way, I have to make sure that they trust me, and my ability to do that. And so knowledge and wisdom, not just about market data, you know, I was an analyst right out of school for a tech company that ended up selling for a lot of money. That was my first job. And I do have that analytical OCD thing that helps me analyze markets and break down numbers for clients, that’s part of it. Right, they need to trust that, you know, the inventory, they need to trust that you have a handle on what value means, you know, all the variables in the equation of value. And there are a number of them, that you have a handle on all of them, and then can speak intelligibly about those variables and the whole equation, so that they trust, okay, you know, Josh can not only keep our emotions in check, so that we can keep moving forward. But also we trust that he knows what he’s talking about. Yeah. So knowledge, and an understanding of the market, in which you’re selling and working is is huge, in in the pursuit of, again, fostering trust in your clients,

D.J. Paris 39:17
you have to know you have to know the inventory. And you do of course, and it’s really something that, you know, 500 episodes in, has, has yet to be refuted by any of our guests. It’s like, you know, study the market, as if it were the, you know, the most precious document on the planet because it’s an ever changing document. But study the MLS, you know, 30 minutes an hour or two hours a day, just to make sure you know everything about your local market, and within a year, you’re going to be so incredibly knowledgeable. If you, you know, put a little bit of that discipline in place that you’re gonna, you’re gonna you We’re gonna leapfrog over other agents.

Josh Myler 40:02
Yeah, it’s important to put the data in context. Meaning it’s not just what’s happening right now. It’s how things have changed over time. So often when I’m when I’m doing my analysis for clients, who asked me, How much is my house worth today, I think it’s important to give them an opportunity to see how things have changed. So I’ll go two or three years back, so that they have a, it’s, again, that teaching element. They have an understanding of where, where we’re coming from. And I think now more than ever, that’s hugely important, because we just come out of the crate, arguably the craziest time in the housing market in the last 100 years. I mean, I would argue, ever, you know, what COVID did to the housing market was unbelievable. And I still think we are, you know, feeling latent effects. You know, I think that right now, there people have settled in to what I call the normalcy, that normal market, right, where, I think for a time after COVID settled, and rates started to come up. People were whining and crying, you know, bloody murder about old money was so cheap before rates were I mean, why can’t we have that again, and again, therapists hat, you’ve got to get over it and move on. Right as you want to buy a house, this person wants to sell you that house. The only way forward is to accept what’s now except Except what we’re dealing with now. And so that’s settled a little bit. And I’m surprised in it in the face of a lot of uncertainty in the market, not just housing market, but the broader markets, that there’s still many buyers out there who were making offers, as I said, we’re going into multiples against a lot of people. And I think the one variable left standing, and I’m sure DJ, you’ve heard this from other real estate agents is in the in the value equation is a lack of inventory. Yeah. Right. What surprises me again, is the the demand. But I think psychologically, people have gotten over what was there subscribing to the philosophy that okay, rates are what they are, and they will eventually come down. So let’s keep going. And let’s my buddy here,

D.J. Paris 42:43
Josh, cat has just made an appearance. Yeah, can do.

Josh Myler 42:47
Let’s, let’s, uh, let’s refi rates are bound to come down. So let’s refi. And, and, and keep our eye on the price.

D.J. Paris 43:00
Yeah, it’s, you know, how have you been working with buyers? Presently, that are sitting on the sidelines? What are these the sorts of things you’re saying to them? Who are, you know, worried about interest rates? And just, you know, is it is it is it as simple as, you know, date the rate marry the house? Is that kind of the philosophy? Or are you seeing buyers, pulling back,

Josh Myler 43:30
I liked that date, the rate, marry the house, I love that. I think there’s a little bit of that. My way my style is, and I think a lot of people who know me and have come to know how I work. Realize that I don’t push very hard. You know, I think of myself in a way, like I’m the anti agent, if you will, I am not trying to sell anybody anything. So if there is reticence or fear, let’s deal with that. First, there will always be a house. I mean, if we look back at history, you get pretty comfortable understanding that there there gajillion houses out there. And I don’t think a good thing to do ever is to push someone in to something too quickly. Or at all for that matter. You know, if you if you feel most comfortable, you know, dipping your toe in or sitting in the shallow end, so that you can kind of get your bearings. And let’s do that, you know, you may miss some opportunities, but again, there will be others. So I think people now again, there are great many people who have subscribed to the idea that we’re just going to rent right now and wait until rates come down? Fine, no problem. Let’s do that. And then there are other people who are ready to go. And so again, I’m using this boat analogy too much. But you know, there are a bunch of different personalities who have who come from a lot of different walks of life in this boat. And my job is to understand who my audience is. Understand to the extent that I can, their fears, their wants, their desires, their needs, and then figure out how to give that to them, and be there with them in that moment. Does that make sense?

D.J. Paris 45:41
It makes perfect sense. It’s really the consultancy sort of approach. It’s That’s right. It’s yeah. And you said very elegantly, perfectly. It’s, Hey, I see you, I hear you, I know you. Here’s what we’re here’s where we’re aiming. And it includes not just the numbers that includes the feelings and hand the numbers, and of course, the property and all of the specifics. And we’re going to aim towards it. And we’re going to keep moving forward. And we’re going to calibrate along the way it makes perfect sense.

Josh Myler 46:17
Yeah, there’s another facet to that, that we haven’t talked about. And that’s disclosure. Right when when real estate agents and in the in the real estate world, we talk about disclosures, we immediately think of disclosing, you know, a seller disclosing all they know about a house to a buyer. Right? Super important, super obvious, I think. But there’s also disclosures that happened between you and your clients, right. And so if we’re going to be there, and I’m going to be there, in that moment with you, whatever moment you’re in, I also am going to show you the data and disclose to you what the market looks like. So that you understand all the opportunities and opportunity costs, right? If you’re going to sit and wait. And so that you can never say to yourself, Josh did not tell us that if we sat and waited, that we would miss out on X, Y and Z. So I think there’s two things be there in the moment, but also make sure they understand what’s going on and what they may be walking away from, or getting themselves into or out of. So that again, they know their eyes are wide open.

D.J. Paris 47:29
I love this idea of like scenario planning. This is essentially what you’re doing. And you’re giving people visions of futures that they can walk around and and see how they find them to be comfortable or not. Again, we’re talking a little bit more thoroughly. Is that a word? I think it is, yeah, ethereal ly more than normal, but I think it’s important because we are, you know, we are, you know, obviously we’re just transacting homes, but what we’re really talking about is all the emotional components that go into the decisions. And there’s so many decisions that go into not even just buying a home, but living in a home. You know, it’s so, so critical to us as human beings, it really does become this important thing where as you as the agent can really get a sense of what that family or individual client needs, and be able to deliver to them exactly the experience they’re looking for.

Josh Myler 48:30
I mean, that that’s it, right? That’s the key to building, I think, a successful real estate career that’s lasting, you know, if you’re just in it to do a deal, I’ll tell you right now, it’s not going to be fun, and it’s not going to last very long. But if you are there with them, and you’re able to I think, boil down to their essence, all the questions you just mentioned, all the boxes that need to be checked. If you can guide them through that process, then you’re not just an agent anymore, you’re a friend, you’re an advisor. And, again, that part of the business is the part that I enjoy the most. And that I think I you know, is what is attributable to most of my success for sure. And that’s what I would say to any new agent. And it’s difficult sometimes I would say to them, try not to focus on the deal. Of course you need to do that, you know, focus on the client. Focus on the human part of it, not the transactional part of it, and that person will will feel like you’re there for them. Right?

D.J. Paris 49:48
Everybody wants to be taken every hour. I shouldn’t say everyone most people want to feel taken care of and, but one of the ways you can demonstrate care is through, you know, all this extra effort for through real estate, right? So you can constantly reach out to clients. Hey, let’s talk about what were you guys thinking about, you know, the next three years? What are you thinking about the next five years? Here’s where I see, here’s, here’s an opportunity I see for you. Here’s something, you know, again, just having these future conversations, it’s, it’s actually very exciting to have those kinds of conversations with clients. And because they’re going to be excited about it, of course, everyone’s typically excited about some something in their future. And you can begin to plan that with them. I think that’s a really interesting approach.

Josh Myler 50:41
I totally agree. It’s huge. And again, for newer agents who are not, you know, they haven’t yet experienced the kind of success they know in their hearts, in some cases they deserve and they will have, it hasn’t come yet. And so it’s harder to to focus on those more, as you said, ethereal things and, and not just get caught in the, in the in the trees. You know what I mean? Focus more on the forest. And I think the best agents, new or old, are those that have the ability to to focus on the trees and the forest. Because I’ll tell you, a lot of your our clients don’t have that ability. They’ve got blinders on emotional blinders. So totally, totally agree with you, TJ.

D.J. Paris 51:34
Well, this is a great place to look, Josh meilleur is the guest. He is an incredibly successful and amazing, connected, passionate agent in Beverly Hills with the agency, please visit him at Josh meilleur.com. If any of our audience has people that move in and out of the Beverly Hills area and are you’re looking to work with Josh or maybe refer business to or from him, he would be honored to speak with you. So definitely reach out to him also follow him on Instagram, Josh sail, actually spelled J O S. H is actually not I’m not going to spell it, because I’m going to put it in the description. So I don’t have it in front of me. My apologies there. But Josh, Josh, this was a wonderful time. On behalf of our audience want to thank you for coming on our show You were amazing, really, really impassioned speech, I had a wonderful time. And on behalf of our audience. And on behalf of Josh and myself to our audience, we want to say thank you for making it all the way to the end of the episode. As always, please remember to tell a friend, think of one other agent that could benefit from hearing from Josh. We did a lot of good work today on this in this conversation. So please send them a link to the podcast, keeping it real pod.com Is our website and you follow us on all the social channels as well. Josh, we appreciate you. And we are excited to talk to you in the future. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, Josh.

Josh Myler 53:10
Thank you so much, DJ, this is a real pleasure. I’m totally honored to be a part of it. Thank you for inviting me to do this.