Leading Saints Podcast

Kurt Francom, Executive Director of Leading Saints, shares his thoughts on the unwritten order of things—a term popularized by Elder Boyd K. Packer in a BYU devotional in October 1996. This phrase has influenced leadership culture in the Church, often being used as a trump card to justify certain practices or norms that are not explicitly documented in church handbooks.

Listen to a reading of the original devotional.

Links

Is Aspiring Wrong?

Church Doctrine, Policy, & Leadership | An Interview with Anthony Sweat

Y Religion: Defining Church Doctrine, with Michael Goodman

The Role of Doubt and Faith | An Interview With Prof. Michael Goodman

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community

Highlights

Kurt explores the context of Elder Packer's talk, highlighting the challenges of leadership in the 1990s when handbooks were not publicly accessible. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the principles behind leadership practices rather than blindly adhering to unwritten rules that may not serve the best interests of the community.

He outlines the ten unwritten orders of things mentioned by Elder Packer, assessing whether each principle is supported by the church handbook. While some of these principles align with current guidelines, others are not formally recognized, raising questions about their validity and application in modern leadership.

Kurt encourages listeners to consider the implications of using the unwritten order of things as a means of manipulation or control, and advocates for a more open dialogue about leadership best practices, urging leaders to communicate their expectations clearly rather than relying on vague traditions. He invites listeners to engage in this conversation, share their experiences, and contribute to a culture of effective leadership where the church can more-effectively draw people to Christ.

00:02:47 - Context of Elder Packer's Talk

00:04:11 - The Unwritten Order of Things Explained

00:05:24 - Weaponization of the Unwritten Order

00:06:05 - Importance of Context in Leadership

00:07:51 - Changes in Handbook Accessibility

00:09:05 - Elder Packer's Teaching Style

00:10:08 - Challenges in Communicating Leadership Guidelines

00:11:22 - The Role of General Authorities in Leadership

00:12:03 - Misinterpretation of the Unwritten Order

00:13:40 - Elder Packer's Ten Unwritten Orders

00:14:01 - Analysis of Each Unwritten Order

00:19:05 - The Role of Personal Counsel in Leadership

00:20:30 - Observing Church Customs and Traditions

00:21:23 - Setting a Tone of Dignity in Meetings

00:22:06 - The Balance of Leadership and Followership

00:23:20 - Binding Nature of the Unwritten Order

00:24:03 - Current Unwritten Orders in Leadership

00:25:07 - The Tyranny of General Authority

00:26:20 - The Importance of Local Leadership Autonomy

00:27:34 - Principles vs. Prescriptions in Leadership

00:29:41 - Establishing Best Practices in Leadership

00:30:57 - Conclusion: Moving Beyond the Unwritten Order

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in September 2021.

Michael A. Goodman has worked for the Church Educational System since 1989 and was the manager of CES College Curriculum before joining the Brigham Young University Church History and Doctrine department in 2007. He is a professor of Religious Education and serves as the RSC’s Associate Publications Director and the Editor of the Religious Educator journal. Michael holds a bachelor’s degree in Journalism with Public Relations, a master’s degree in Information Technology, and a PhD in Marriage, Family, and Human Development. He is a co-investigator on the Family Foundations of Youth Development longitudinal research project, focused on adolescent and family faith development and mental health outcomes with a special emphasis on suicidality. Michael is married to Tiina Anita Goodman.

Links

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community

Highlights

1:55 BYU Eternal Families course chair and online curriculum author

4:10 How does BYU teach the doctrine of Eternal Families?

Courses based on doctrine with some social science mixed in

Eternal principles and daily principles taught (money, sexuality etc)

5:50 We don’t have to convince BYU students that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints values families, but they don’t often know why.

8:30 D&C 131 and 132: The Degrees of Glory and importance of eternal families

10:40 The Family: A Proclamation to the World. Quotes document.

11:40 President Oaks Quote: “Our theology begins with Heavenly Parents. Our greatest aspiration is to be like them.” “The purpose of mortal like and the mission of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to prepare the sons and daughters of God for their eternal destiny- to become like our Heavenly Parents.”

13:35 Divine Identity and Divine Destiny… as children of God

15:45 Mother in Heaven: foundational doctrine

16:35 When speaking to single adults after the foundation has been laid, what do you say next? …Well someday?!? NO! Acknowledge their pain and the issues they face.

17:45 Neil L. Anderson quote: “We will continue to teach the Lord’s pattern for families, but now with millions of members and the diversity among those in the church we need to be more thoughtful and sensitive. Our church culture and vernacular are sometimes quite unique. The Primary children are not going to stop singing 'Families can be Together Forever' but when they sing 'I’m so happy when Daddy comes home' or 'With father and mother leading the way…', not all children will be singing about their family.”

20:50 What do we need to know now, to feel joy now? Four overarching principles:

No one denied any promised blessing because of something outside of their control

YOU are included in the plan of salvation, and because of that inclusion there is hope.

Heavenly Father will not abrogate agency.

God loves us with a perfect love and will do anything in his power to exalt us.

Through the grace of Christ, Heavenly Father can provide solutions to those things outside our control (24:51)

26:04 Quote President Kimball: “We promise you that in as far as eternity is concerned, NO soul will be deprived of rich and high and eternal blessings for anything which they could not help. That the Lord never fails in his promises. Every righteous person will eventually receive ALL to which they are entitled and have not forfeited through any fault of their own.”

28:15 Stay covenant-connected.

28:30 Quote President Nelson: Through no failing of their own “they” deal with the trails of life alone. May we all be reminded that in the Lord’s own way and time no blessing will be withheld from his faithful saints. The Lords will judge and reward each individual according to their heartfelt desires as well as deeds.”

29:45 It’s ok if you aren’t the “ideal” family yet… Richard G. Scott quote and discussion

31:55 Live relationally now! Live familially.

33:10 None of us are broken, just in process.

33:55 Kurt- as a leader- “I won’t deny callings based on marital status”. Few callings have any sort of marital qualification.

36:25 Kurt- as a leader- encourage people to live relationally. ALL people need other people.

37:45 How do you find yourself? Lose yourself serving others. Story of girl who wouldn’t attend activities: Asked to find one person who looked as awkward as she felt and say hello…

41:45 Plural marriage and our doctrine:

Starts with Abraham and Moses

System instated when God sees fit (usually at the beginning of a dispensation)

Essay on Plural Marriage: ordinances may be preformed for the dead sealing one person to all the spouses they have had on Earth. “The precise nature of these relationships in the next life is NOT known. Many relationships will be sorted out in the life to come”.

42:50 Back to agency: You’ll never be stuck in a relationship you don’t want, plural or otherwise.

46:50 There has NEVER been a statement given churchwide that says you must practice plural marriage to qualify for exaltation.

48:00 Cancellation of sealings: It’s a triangle ordinance. Righteous desire and faithfulness bind the sealing. If they don’t exist neither does the sealing.

52:50 Four aspects of the sealing ordinance (1998 Ensign):

Individual covenants and blessings based on personal faithfulness

Join covenants: Blessings only given jointly to couples who are faithful jointly

Joining in celestial marriage: “Getting super-glued”

Blessing for children born in the covenant or sealed to parents: Blessing of the Abrahamic covenant

These help us through contingencies like death, divorce, etc.

55:46 President Oaks Quote: For all questions on the spirit world I suggest two answers. First, remember that God loves his children and will surely do what is best for each of us. Second, remember this familiar bible teaching which has been most helpful to me on a multitude of unanswered questions: “Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, lean not to thine own understanding and he shall direct thy paths.”

58:45 Story of President Eyring: When Pres Eyring lamented that he wasn’t sure people’s choices would allow families to be together forever the prophet responded with “ you are worrying about the WRONG PROBLEM”. Live worthy of the celestial kingdom and the family arrangements will be more wonderful than you can imagine.

1:00:15 What about the concept of servants in the celestial kingdom? Again revert to agency. We cannot be forced to live a life we do not choose.

Heavenly Father is not impatient. We are.

1:00:43 Hopelessness is Death: Until we have hope there is no progress to the “next step.”

1:04:45 No need to live “white knuckled” now. Learn to live relationally. If you are in a situation familially or relationally where you are unhappy, Satan will try to tell you you are broken. He will try to convince you you are “damaged goods”. Let the Lord show you how to get up and live.

1:06:35 If you are struggling… welcome to mortality

1:08:05 There ain’t no such thing as a perfect person except for Christ, and you can’t marry Him!

1:08:30 One last thought on The Proclamation: Don’t read it thinking of what you don’t have. Notice what you do have and can have. There is comfort there. It is full of beautiful truths.

1:11:15 Final encouragement: We have been asked to focus on love and law. Love those around you, love those you serve. But that can’t be all. Then lead them to Christ. The commandments are the way He leads us back home and are not a weapon.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Jeff Strong worked nearly 30 years in the consumer products industry as a senior executive at Procter & Gamble and global president and chief customer officer at Johnson & Johnson. He then taught in the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University and worked as an advisor to the Church before serving as a mission leader in the Arkansas Bentonville Mission. Jeff has since spent several years doing research on why people are leaving the Church. While not a professional researcher, his career involved a large amount of research and the research he shares in this podcast was done with the help of some of the top Latter-day Saint researchers in the world. Today, Jeff lives in Midway, Utah, and stays busy with a little lavender farm, some business consulting, and enjoying family.

Links

Slides: Tension Between Tradition and Change

Listen to Part 2: 6 Types of People in Your Ward | An Interview with Jeff Strong

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community

Highlights

In this conversation, Jeff dives deep into the tension between church culture and personal beliefs, and how embracing it can lead to growth and understanding within our church community. He discusses the findings from a comprehensive survey that aimed to understand disaffiliation and the tensions members experience in their church lives.

A key takeaway is the importance of understanding what members love about the Church, revealing the core values that bind members together, despite the tensions they may feel. Jeff talks about the tensions present in church culture, emphasizing the dual facets of this conflict: the tension between tradition and change, and the tension arising from our differences. He explores how members often feel a significant conflict in their church experience, with many expressing discomfort with the culture. Jeff presents data indicating that nearly half of the respondents felt a significant conflict, and more than half did not feel a strong sense of belonging in their congregations. Throughout the conversation, he emphasizes the importance of recognizing and embracing this tension rather than attempting to eliminate it.

00:02:40 - Purpose of the Survey on Disaffiliation

00:05:12 - Survey Response Insights

00:07:38 - What People Love About the Church

00:10:30 - Core Values of Church Members

00:12:33 - Strengths of the Church

00:13:10 - Tension Between Tradition and Change

00:16:00 - Navigating Cultural Differences

00:19:15 - Understanding Tension in Church Experience

00:22:10 - Data on Comfort and Belonging

00:23:38 - Recognizing Conflict in the Congregation

00:30:02 - Tension Between Personal and Cultural Values

00:35:44 - Embracing Tension in Leadership

00:40:08 - Creating a Safe Space for Tension

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in March 2020.

John Bytheway has a master’s degree in Religious Education and is a popular speaker, author of more than two dozen books and CDs, and the co-host of the world-renowned Follow Him podcast with Hank Smith. He has taught the Book of Mormon at Brigham Young University and at the BYU Salt Lake Center. John served as bishop of the Salt Lake Winder 10th Ward, and currently serves as a member of the Young Men General Advisory Council.

Links

By John Bytheway

Our Turtle House is now LatterDaily

Meg Johnson's story: "Falling Up"

Six Events: The Restoration Model for Solving Life's Problems

The Divine Center

Follow Him

Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community

Transcript coming soon

Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library

Highlights

4:00 John’s background as a teacher and speaker

5:45 Writing books and how that happens for him

8:00 How his calling as a bishop came about

9:20 Serving as a bishop is different for every person and area; he had people asking for welfare support before he ever sat in the bishop’s chair

10:40 For bishops with significant welfare challenges in their ward

First ask what they need and listen

Make a three-column chart of what the ward can do, what the Lord can do, and what the individual can do to help them—handing back the problem to the individual so you can work on it together instead of taking it from them

Helps eliminate the transactional mentality and replace it with mentoring

Help them get their spiritual act together first

16:20 Emphasis to push more things (such as welfare needs) to the ward council; called a “welfare coordinator” couple to help handle welfare requests before bringing it to the bishop

18:10 Moving people closer to financial self-sufficiency and self-reliance

Learning experiences as a missionary in the Philippines and seeing similar development in the welfare program

21:15 Ended meetings with his counselors at a specific time, no matter what

22:30 “It takes a really good meeting to be better than no meeting at all”: Virtual ward council held via text messages throughout the week to eliminate much of the administrative points so they could really focus on individuals in the ward council meeting

24:20 Losing the joy in the calling, and how talking with others who have struggled helped

Experience speaking with Robert L. Millet and having “same boat therapy”

Recognizing that there are difficulties in the calling but moments that made it worth it

Fisher missions vs hunter missions: some fantastic stories from great moments, but difficult days, weeks, and months between

31:30 Calling ward members each evening on their birthday was a simple, routine thing that became important for connecting

34:30 Working with youth: firesides are different than teaching a class

Taught Sunday School with his wife after serving as bishop, and went back to the simple idea that you have to care for them first

Put people in place with the youth who are great examples; youth learn by example, not principles

37:10 Kids will listen differently to a speaker at a fireside because they don’t think that the speaker was influenced by what their parents or leaders are saying (“An expert is anybody from out of town”)

39:30 Stephen Covey: the order of the events in the restoration is a formula for solving life’s problems. Start with identity and relationships.

“If we want to help our children or other people change their behavior, we begin by improving the quality of our relationships with them, and we introduce new ideas before we introduce new expectations and controls. In other words, we help them see the world differently. When a person’s paradigm changes, everything else changes with it.”

44:25 His book about Moroni: Moroni didn’t get to how to run the Church until Moroni chapter 6

46:00 Working with Meg Johnson and Hank Smith

Image: magazine.byu.edu

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Patrick Sedivy is the Founder and CEO of Cumorah Academy, a non-profit private school dedicated to empowering individuals to follow Jesus Christ and positively impact their lives, careers, and communities. His commitment to service and leadership is rooted in his faith and family background—his parents defected from communist Czechoslovakia in 1969 in search of religious freedom, and he later served as a missionary in the Czech Republic. Patrick and his wife, Allyse, share a passion for inspiring and guiding young adults, which led them to establish Cumorah Academy. Patrick also serves as CEO of HYPE, a program dedicated to empowering youth and creating unforgettable experiences.

Links

CumorahAcademy.org

GoHYPE.org

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community

Highlights

00:03:39 - The Vision Behind Cumorah Academy

00:05:23 - Understanding the Structure of Cumorah Academy

00:06:30 - The Importance of Leadership Skills

00:08:00 - Who Can Attend Cumorah Academy?

00:09:49 - The International Reach of Cumorah Academy

00:10:34 - Tuition and Scholarships

00:12:26 - Language and Learning Environment

00:13:11 - Success Stories from Cumorah Academy

00:14:41 - Transformative Experiences of Students

00:16:25 - The Need for Continuous Learning

00:17:42 - Addressing the Transition Challenges for Young Adults

00:18:50 - Curriculum Overview and Key Principles

00:19:28 - Accountability and Personal Growth

00:20:34 - Conflict Resolution Skills

00:22:08 - Interactive Learning Methodology

00:23:40 - Balancing Workload and Downtime

00:25:57 - Creating Positive Connections Among Students

00:27:36 - The Role of Visiting Mentors

00:29:50 - Public Speaking and Presentation Skills

00:31:07 - Leadership Curriculum and Modules

00:32:54 - Holistic Approach to Student Well-being

00:34:37 - Measuring Emotional Resilience and Hopefulness

00:36:39 - The Importance of Human Connection

00:38:06 - Opportunities for Mentorship and Involvement

00:39:49 - Conclusion and Resources for Further Engagement

00:41:13 - Introducing Hype: Humanitarian Leadership Experience

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in March 2018.

Adam McHugh is an author, former hospice chaplain, spiritual director, and minister, and now a wine tour guide and sommelier. The author of Introverts in the Church: Finding Our Place in an Extroverted Culture, he is an ordained Presbyterian minister, having earned a Masters of Divinity and Masters of Theology in Greek New Testament from Princeton Theological Seminary. He is also the author of The Listening Life: Embracing Attentiveness in a World of Distraction. Since this interview was recorded he has written a memoir, Blood from a Stone. Adam lives in California's Santa Ynez Valley, and may be the only person published in both Psychology Today and Wine Enthusiast.

Links

Introverts in the Church: Finding Our Place in an Extroverted Culture

The Listening Life: Embracing Attentiveness in a World of Distraction

Read the transcript of this podcast

Highlights

4:30 Becoming an ordained minister

7:30 What led to writing Introverts in the Church

10:50 Explanation of introversion and extroversion

16:00 Problems that introverts experience at church

19:00 Understanding the discomfort of personal vulnerability and sharing beliefs as an expression of faith

22:00 Introverts generally prefer depth over breadth

24:00 The power of listening: experience at a hospital

30:00 Introverts and small talk

34:00 How introverts approach dealing with conflict and decisions

40:00 Silence, reverence, and the internal experience compared to active social environments

45:20 Cultural clash of introvert and extrovert leaders: overcoming stereotypes and encouraging introverts to be leaders

48:50 Reaching out to invite introverts to participate

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Scott Rasband worked 15 years in medical device sales and leadership before transitioning to Chick-fil-A, and has spent the last 10 years operating the Chick-fil-A in Spanish Fork, Utah. In the Church, Scott has served as a Young Men president, elders quorum president, bishopric counselor, and bishop. He is the father of five and currently serves as the bishop of a Young Single Adult ward.

Links

Read the transcript of this podcast

Highlights

Scott Rasband wears two significant hats: he is both the owner of a Chick-fil-A restaurant in Spanish Fork, Utah, and a YSA bishop. He describes the values instilled by the Cathy family, owners of the Chick-fil-A brand, and how these values shape the experience for both employees and customers. He emphasizes the importance of local ownership and how it fosters a sense of community and connection.

Scott talks about "second mile service," a principle derived from Matthew 5:41, which encourages going above and beyond for others. He illustrates this concept with anecdotes from his restaurant—moments that create emotional connections and leave a lasting impression on customers.

Scott shares insights into his role as a YSA bishop, where he applies similar leadership principles. He discusses the importance of being present, allowing young adults to lead, and connecting them to a higher purpose. Informal gatherings, like "Straggler Sundays" at his home, foster community and build trust among ward members. Scott's approach to leadership is characterized by vulnerability and accessibility, as he actively reaches out to members through texts and personal interactions. He highlights the significance of mentorship and the power of creating a culture where young adults feel valued and empowered.

00:02:14 - Chick-fil-A Culture and Leadership

00:04:03 - Scott's Background and Experience

00:05:10 - Positive Perspectives on Young Adults

00:06:24 - Connecting Youth to Jesus Christ

00:07:13 - Chick-fil-A's Unique Organizational Culture

00:09:25 - The Importance of Sunday Closure

00:11:22 - Mission to Be the World's Most Caring Company

00:12:22 - Translating Mission Statements into Action

00:13:41 - Servant Leadership in Action

00:14:56 - The Impact of Chick-fil-A's Values

00:16:05 - Local Ownership and Community Impact

00:17:02 - The Role of Personal Connection in Leadership

00:18:10 - Examples of Chick-fil-A's Customer Experience

00:20:10 - Core Four Principles for Employee Interaction

00:22:36 - The Origin of "My Pleasure"

00:23:09 - The Significance of Culture in Organizations

00:24:26 - Retention and Employee Satisfaction

00:25:38 - Patterns of Gathering in the YSA Ward

00:27:44 - Straggler Sunday Concept

00:28:59 - Informal Gatherings and Building Relationships

00:29:20 - Digital Relationships with Ward Members

00:30:48 - The Importance of Availability

00:32:06 - Mentoring and Leadership Development

00:33:11 - Involving Spouses in Ministry

00:34:05 - Creating a Culture of Vulnerability

00:35:09 - The Role of Surprise and Delight

00:36:11 - Letting Young Adults Lead

00:39:29 - Delegating Responsibility in Chick-fil-A

00:40:39 - Building Trust Through Delegation

00:41:26 - Adapting to Change in the YSA Ward

00:42:18 - Embracing New Traditions in Worship

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Listen to the original interview.

Brenda Angle is an author and a certified faith-based life coach and speaker who has also trained and certified 200 other faith-based life coaches. She has served as president of United Families for Arizona and as an NGO lobbyist at the United Nations. In her humanitarian work, she has served as vice president of Hearts and Hands for Humanity, vice president director of philanthropy for Legacy Giving Fund, and has traveled to Tanzania, Africa for eight years. At church, she has served as a Young Women president, Primary president, stake and ward Relief Society president, stake camp director, and as a service missionary teaching study skills at the Provo Missionary Training Center. Brenda is the mother of nine children and grandmother of 40.

Links

Gathering African Saints to the Temple | A How I Lead Interview with Brenda Angle

Mully

Hearts and Hands for Humanity

Read the transcript of this podcast

Highlights

Brenda tells about the remarkable project she spearheaded: organizing a temple trip for over 500 individuals from Tanzania to the Nairobi, Kenya temple during its open house.

Brenda recounts how the idea for this trip blossomed from a small initiative to take a handful of people to the temple into a massive undertaking that involved 13 buses and more than 500 participants, including members of the church, investigators, and even orphans. The excitement grew rapidly, and with the help of the Leading Saints community we were able to raise significant funds to support this endeavor. Brenda shared her awe at the generosity of our audience, which allowed her to cover costs for transportation, lodging, and meals for all participants.

The journey was fraught with obstacles, yet the spirit of the participants remained high and their gratitude was palpable. Brenda describes the emotional impact of the experience, especially for those who had never seen a temple before. She emphasizes the transformative power of the temple and how this trip will not only impact the individuals who attended but also strengthen The Church in Tanzania.

00:01:41 - Brenda Angle's Humanitarian Project

Recap of the previous interview with Brenda.

00:04:22 - Planning the Temple Trip

Brenda discusses the initial idea and planning stages for taking people from Tanzania to the Nairobi Kenya temple.

00:06:57 - Fundraising Success

Details on the overwhelming support and donations received from the Leading Saints audience to fund the trip.

00:09:20 - Organizing the Trip

Brenda describes the logistics of organizing multiple buses and the challenges faced leading up to the trip.

00:12:08 - Challenges on Departure Day

An account of the chaos and challenges encountered on the day of departure.

00:15:20 - Arrival in Nairobi

The experience of arriving in Nairobi, including accommodations and feeding the participants.

00:17:03 - Experiencing the Temple

Describing the participants' experiences at the temple, including their reactions and feelings.

00:20:32 - Diverse Participants

Discussion on the demographics of the participants, including members, investigators, and orphans.

00:22:24 - Temple Grounds and Activities

Details about the activities on the temple grounds and the emotional impact on the participants.

00:26:21 - Reflections on Leadership and Opposition

Brenda shares insights on leadership challenges faced during the project and the spiritual lessons learned.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Ryan Gottfredson, Ph.D. is a cutting-edge leadership development author, researcher, and consultant. He helps organizations vertically develop their leaders primarily through a focus on mindsets. Ryan is the Wall Street Journal and USA Today best-selling author of Success Mindsets, The Elevated Leader, and Becoming Better. He is also a leadership professor at the College of Business and Economics at California State University-Fullerton.

Links

RyanGottfredson.com

Personal mindset assessment

Vertical development assessment

Ryan's books:

Becoming Better: The Groundbreaking Science of Personal Transformation

Success Mindsets: The Key to Unlocking Greater Success in Your Life, Work, & Leadership

The Elevated Leader: Leveling Up Your Leadership Through Vertical Development

Previous podcasts with Ryan:

What About Our Culture is Holding Us Back?

Is There a Correlation Between Losing Faith and Moving?

The Research Behind Becoming Christlike

Is Your Mindset Limiting Your Leadership?

What Every Leader Should Consider About Community in Their Ward

Articles by Ryan at LeadingSaints.org

Read the transcript of this podcast

Highlights

Ryan talks about personal development and becoming better leaders through understanding our own complexities and healing. He explores the science of sanctification and the difference between merely doing better and truly becoming better, focusing on our "being side"—the quality of our internal operating system—rather than just our "doing side," which encompasses our skills and knowledge. Learning this distinction can help leaders as they support others who are struggling in their lives.

Ryan explains how our relationships with risk, failure, conflict, and even ourselves can reveal the quality of our being. Many leaders operate from a place of fear or insecurity, which can limit their effectiveness and impact. Ryan explores the concept of the "window of tolerance," which refers to our ability to manage stress and emotional responses. He explains how a narrow window can lead to reactivity, while a wider window allows for greater emotional regulation and resilience. Understanding this can help leaders create a supportive environment for their congregations. Ryan also encourages leaders to consider their own journeys and the areas where they may need healing.

00:02:00 - The evolution of Ryan's books and the deepening of his leadership concepts

00:05:00 - Mindsets and the difference between vertical and horizontal development in leadership

00:07:00 - The Being Side vs. Doing Side: The importance of focusing on the "being" side of leadership for transformational growth

00:09:00 - Connection between leadership principles and gospel teachings, emphasizing the importance of becoming

00:10:30 - The role of personal healing in effective leadership and the importance of self-awareness

00:12:00 - The window of tolerance and its relevance to emotional regulation

00:15:00 - Personal complexity and its impact on leadership effectiveness

00:20:00 - Exploration of emotional complexity and self-complexity in leaders

00:25:00 - Examining leaders' relationships with risk, failure, and conflict as indicators of their health

00:30:00 - Contrast between survival-focused leadership and purpose-driven leadership

00:35:00 - Investigating the quality of relationships with self, others, and various challenges

00:40:00 - The challenges of people-pleasing and its impact on leadership effectiveness

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in August 2021.

Jenny Reeder is a historian and writer, currently the nineteenth-century women’s history specialist at the Church History Department in the publications division, and was one of the first historians hired to specialize in women’s history. She holds a PhD in American history from George Mason University, specializing in women’s history, religious history, memory, and material culture. She also holds degrees from Brigham Young University, Arizona State University, and New York University.

Jenny served a mission in Italy and has served three times as a ward Relief Society president, including when she was in graduate school and fighting leukemia. Jenny has collaborated on several books about Latter-day Saint women's history and is the author of First: The Life and Faith of Emma Smith.

Links

First: The Life and Faith of Emma Smith

A Place to Belong: Reflections from Modern Latter-day Saint Women

The Witness of Women: Firsthand Experiences and Testimonies from the Restoration

At the Pulpit: 185 Years of Discourses by Latter-day Saint Women

Read the transcript of this podcast

Highlights

2:50 Writing her book about Emma Smith. Her goal was to write about her as a pillar of the Restoration and a significant founder of the Church with Joseph, and to make her a real woman and show how complicated her life was, her commitment, and her heartbreak.

5:20 So many members of the Church have been influenced to believe she was a fallen person because she did not come west with the other pioneers, but she retained her testimony and hers is a story of redemption.

7:45 Jenny's experience with cancer while serving as a Relief Society president during her time in graduate school at George Mason

Participating in ward council from her hospital bed

Visiting with less-active people and learning to receive service

Sending emails and physical cards to people as she was prompted

Finding her purpose outside of "not dying"

15:15 Serving is an opportunity to learn, serve, and receive revelation in way you haven't before, and this can be a blessing in a difficult time.

19:00 The goals of RS were to provide relief and save souls. She found relief for herself as she provided relief to others, and came to understand the Atonement on a deeper level.

21:00 Developing relationships that continue: maintaining relationships from her old ward has been powerful for everyone as they have rallied together to support each other through difficult times.

23:00 The Church was never really organized until the Relief Society was organized. Having women involved is significant and they have Priesthood authority in their stewardship. The most beneficial experience is when they are recognized for that leadership and allowed to do what they can.

27:00 Emma's instructions in Doctrine and Covenants Section 25

Emma struggled with her role to teach and had to learn how to lead

In Nauvoo Relief Society, you had to apply for membership. It was a step toward being able to participate in temple ordinances.

Emma's role in creating the hymnbook, and being the first woman to receive her endowment

She was called to be a support for Joseph: significance of the words "comfort" and "office", and of leaving her family to go with him and to stay with him

36:50 The Relief Society was told to create offices to expand what they needed

39:00 Speaking up to have your voice heard: It was not normal for women to speak publicly in the 19th century, and even now women can be unaccustomed to speaking and leading

Eliza R. Snow was asked to assist bishops and to instruct the sisters, but she was not accustomed to speaking out, but she learned how to do this and taught others how

Relief Society was shut down and Eliza became the de facto Relief Society president before she was called by John Taylor, which was also after the death of Emma

46:30 President Nelson has called for women to speak up and speak out

Speaking up in discussions as well as in councils

Relief Society was previously more discussion-oriented, and then moved more to a lesson/lecture format. The move back to discussion with Come Follow Me works better to involve more people.

52:15 There was a deep commitment to Relief Society that we don't seem to have today

Her favorite Nauvoo Relief Society: Zinah Jacobs Young's experience becoming a member of Relief Society

Eliza's expansion of that idea as she traveled and taught: Relief Society brings women together and gathers their embers in to a flame of fire

55:15 Eliza's letter: "May you have a copious refreshment of the Spirit"; they felt the Spirit as a purifying stream

57:30 The Relief Society president is enlarged as she calls on the sisters to do ministering: Eliza instructed them to go into the homes of the people and re-light the fires of the sisters; meet their needs to provide relief to them.

1:00:30 The influence of otherwise-unknown women leaders

Jane Lyman's story and her discourse in At the Pulpit: Charity covers a multitude of sins

Talk by unknown Eleanor Georgina Jones, about prayer: "Prayer is the key to the statehouse of our understanding." "There is no pit so deep, no hole so dark, that you cannot reach out to your Heavenly Father in prayer."

We need the voices of the people on the margins

1:07:45 These women have become her hosts, sitting with her in difficult times and as she has studied them. They can provide depth as our spiritual sisters.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.