The Lean Out podcast has covered lots of books in recent years. We have never covered a poetry book. But all it took was one read of a striking new collection of poems for us to know that we had to have its author on the show. The Canadian writer Stephen Marche said it best when he described this collection: “Like supremely eloquent graffiti written on the wall of a magnificent palace, except the palace is the world, and the world is on fire.”

Michael Lista is a Canadian essayist, investigative journalist, and poet. His new book is Barfly and Other Poems.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

As regular readers of this Substack will know, this spring Tara has been writing the Massey Essay on the state of the media — a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada. You can read it here.

The annual essay honours the legacy of the long-time CBC producer Vincent Massey Tovell. This year’s essay explores the collapse of public trust in the media. To mark the occasion, we are  presenting a series of encore interviews with some of the journalists that helped shape Tara's thinking for this essay. Including today’s conversation, which originally aired in November of 2023.

George Packer is a staff writer at The Atlantic, and the author of ten books. 

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

As regular readers of this Substack will know, this spring Tara has been writing the Massey Essay on the state of the media — a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada. You can read it here. 

The annual essay honours the legacy of the long-time CBC producer Vincent Massey Tovell. This year’s essay explores the collapse of public trust in the media. To mark the occasion, we are presenting a series of encore interviews with some of the journalists that helped shape Tara's thinking for this essay. Including today’s conversation, which originally aired in January of 2024.

Michael Powell is a staff writer at The Atlantic and a former reporter at The New York Times, where he covered free speech, college campuses, and identity politics.  He’s also the author of Canyon Dreams: A Basketball Season on the Navajo Nation.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

As regular readers of Tara's Substack will know, this spring she has been writing the Massey Essay on the state of the media — a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada, where it’s published.

The annual essay honours the legacy of the long-time CBC producer Vincent Massey Tovell. This year’s essay explores the collapse of public trust in the media. Leading up to its publication next week, we will be re-running podcast interviews with some of the journalists that helped shape Tara's thinking for this essay. Including today’s conversation, which originally aired in December of 2022.

Freddie deBoer is an American journalist. His latest book is How Elites Ate the Social Justice Movement.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

As regular readers of Tara's Substack will know, this spring she has been writing the Massey Essay on the state of the media — a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada, where it’s published.

The annual essay honours the legacy of the long-time CBC producer Vincent Massey Tovell. This year’s essay explores the collapse of public trust in the media. Leading up to its publication next week, we will be re-running podcast interviews with some of the journalists that helped shape Tara's thinking for this essay. Including today’s conversation, which originally aired in July of 2023.

Peter Menzies is a former newspaper executive and a former vice chair of the CRTC, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission. He’s now a senior fellow at the Macdonald-Laurier Institute and a frequent commentator on the Canadian media.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

As regular readers of Tara's Substack will know, this spring she has been writing the Massey Essay on the state of the media — a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada, where it’s published.

The annual essay honours the legacy of the long-time CBC producer Vincent Massey Tovell. This year’s essay explores the collapse of public trust in the media. Leading up to its publication next week, we will be re-running podcast interviews with some of the journalists that helped shape Tara's thinking for this essay. Including today’s conversation, which originally aired in March of 2023.

Steve Krakauer is the executive producer of The Megyn Kelly Show and the host of The Fourth Watch podcast. His recent book is Uncovered: How the Media Got Cozy with Power, Abandoned Its Principles, and Lost the People.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

As regular readers of Tara's Substack will know, this spring she has been writing the Massey Essay on the state of the media — a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada, where it’s published.

The annual essay honours the legacy of the long-time CBC producer Vincent Massey Tovell. This year’s essay explores the collapse of public trust in the media. Leading up to its publication next week, we will be re-running podcast interviews with some of the journalists that helped shape Tara's thinking for this essay. Including today’s conversation (which originally aired in September of 2022.)

David Greenberg is a professor of history and of journalism and media studies at Rutgers University. In 2022, he published a longform piece titled “The War on Objectivity in American Journalism” in the Liberties journal.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

As regular readers of Tara's Substack will know, this spring Tara has been writing the Massey Essay on the state of the media — a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada, where it’s published. 

The annual essay honours the legacy of the long-time CBC producer Vincent Massey Tovell. This year’s essay explores the collapse of public trust in the media. Leading up to its publication next week, we will be re-running podcast interviews with some of the journalists that helped shape Tara's thinking for this essay. Starting with today’s conversation — one of Lean Out’s most popular episodes on the Canadian media (which originally aired in July of 2023).

Jen Gerson is a Calgary journalist, and co-founder of the Canadian outlet The Line. 

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

Canada recently reached a grim milestone — the lowest fertility rate in recorded history. We are now well below population replacement, at 1.33 births per woman. Our guest on the show today has studied this crisis in family formation in the West. And he says we need to take a look at our culture.

Tim Carney is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and a columnist for The Washington Examiner. His new book is Family Unfriendly: How Our Culture Made Raising Kids Much Harder Than It Needs To Be.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

On the Lean Out podcast, we’ve spent much of the past year investigating the collapse of the news media and the decline in public trust. Tara's guest this week argues that the industry is at a crossroads, but media bosses are unwilling to meet the moment, and seem determined to continue on the same trajectory — even if it means the death of their institutions.

Ryan Zickgraf is an American journalist and a columnist at Compact Magazine. His new essay is “Journalism’s Slow Death Threatens Democracy.”

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com