Liminal Living

By Dr. Thomas J Rundel

Welcome to the Liminal Living Podcast, where we dive deep into the realm of liminal spaces—those transitional phases where uncertainty is our companion. I'm your host and curator of conversations, Dr.... more

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The podcast currently has 173 episodes available.

Liminal Living episodes:

October 17, 2023 31: Tom Rundel: The Bible Says... Why I don't say that anymore
Have you ever had someone use the phrase, “Well, the Bible says…” to correct you? But then they dismiss other things the Bible says with a “yeah, but…” Who we offer our “yeah but” comments to and who we hard line with “the Bible says” reveals more about the one using the phrase than it does the Bible.
Today I talk about why I no longer use the phrase, “The Bible says…” and how it is often a signal of a theology that is static, exclusive, elitist, or abusive. This summarizes some of the things I learned from the last 4 interviews I did. To get there we meander through the historical narrative flow of the old and new testaments. So if you have ever struggled to make sense of what the Bible is saying, and why, it might help to understand the story.
Time Stamps for the Episode:
Time Stamps for the episode:
00:40 Introductions
01:54 I Don’t say, “The Bible Says” anymore
05:38 The Tabernacle Narrative
09:31 Kings and Temples Narrative
12:19 Babylon, Persia, and Greece! Oh My!
16:29 Rome, Herod, and Second Temple
19:41 It’s the end of the world as we know it
22:27 Theology: Our static Temple
27:54 Theology: our elitist and and exclusive Temple
33:02 Theology: our abusive Temple
34:56 LGBTQ+ texts vs Greed, Power, Corruption texts
37:42 Abusive Church Growth Tactics
43:30 The Bible says, says more about you than the Bible
46:52 Tables instead of Temples
52:44 Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree
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Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
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54min
October 11, 2023 30: Kathy Khang: Finding a Home: Hospitality, Immigration, and Power in the Church
Who gets to decide the modern dogmas of who is in and who is out? Probably not the people Jesus would hang around with, marginalized communities. I have an honest and beautiful conversation with author Kathy Khang today about her experience as a Christian in America who immigrated from Korea. And she highlights things from that perspective that I had a hard time seeing from my perspective.
Our guest today is Kathy Khang, a mother of three, wife of one, and a passionate advocate for embracing the complexities of identity, spirituality, and social justice. Kathy's story is one of transformation and empowerment, rooted in her love for Jesus and a deep appreciation for the simple joys of life, like yoga, nail polish, lipstick, and the bond she shares with her girlfriends.
Kathy's journey as a writer, speaker, coffee enthusiast, and even a yoga teacher has taken her from the pages of childhood diaries to newsrooms and co-authored books. Her next book co-authored with Matt Mikalatos is called Loving Disagreement which is about how to sustain community in a polarized society. It landed on Englewood Book Review’s list of most anticipated books of 2023. She is also a co-host of The Fascinating Podcast which is on season 11 now.
With over two decades of experience in parachurch ministry, working with college students and training leaders, Kathy has been a force for change, encouraging others to find and use their voices to bring about positive transformation. Her recent book, "Raise Your Voice: Why We Stay Silent and How to Speak Up," inspires everyone to embrace their influence and work toward creating a more just and compassionate world. So, join us today as we dive deep into Kathy Khang's inspiring journey of using one's voice to shape a better future.
Time Stamps for the episode:
00:40 Introductions
03:52 Good Coffee
09:09 Spiritual Roots in the Korean Church in Chicago
13:44 Renting church space and false hospitality
18:31 Rethinking Hospitality as the Church
21:58 Loving Disagreement what it is and is NOT
27:04 Love is not nice
32:01 Toxic Positivity
36:45 The Moving Goalposts of expectation
41:47 False apostolic authority used to create exclusive dogma
44:12 What loving your enemy can look like
48:31 Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

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51min
October 03, 202329: Tom Rundel: Does God have a Gender, Karma, and more Science talk
Does God have a Gender? Is Karma real? What did the Bible say about Dinosaurs? And other fun questions in this ask me anything episode where I take on your theological questions:
Scott: According to Christianity, the only way is through Jesus. According to another religion, the only way is through their belief system. How can we all be right? Does God give many paths that lead to him?
Lance: How do we know which religion is right? And if Christianity is it, how do we know which version/interpretation is right?
Rosey: If God created humans in his image, male and female, what does that actually mean? Is God not genderless?
Wendi: What’s the deal with karma and the Christian faith?
Nic: did the Creator create us individually or broad stroke? What level of detail went into His design?
Lance: How does the Bible coexist with science?
Time Stamps for the episode:
00:49 Introductions
05:48 The Benedictine Monk who taught me to meditate
11:10 Are there many paths to God?
16:23 Labels on something vs Essence of something
21:26 Love is the point and humility is the foundation
23:30 How do we know which religion is right?
28:42 Is God a man?
33:37 God as “the Father”
39:06 God as “the Mother”
44:43 Gender and the Incarnation
47:56 Karma and Buddhism
53:36 Karma’s 4 Noble Truths and 8 fold Path
57:33 Karma and Christianity
1:01:32 How does God “make” us and the world?
1:05:51 Are Dinosaurs in the Bible?
1:10:13 Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

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1h 12min
September 27, 2023 28: Matt Tebbe: Money, Power, and Abuse in the Church
Why have we spiritualized so much of Jesus’ teaching on poverty, money, and forgiveness? It is the only way we could make sense of his teachings while wearing the insulation that power provides us. But what does Christ say about money and power? How have we harnessed what Jesus calls the god of mammon into our methodologies of modern church growth tactics?
Today I talk with Matt Tebbe, an expert voice in the areas concerning mammon, which is the Bible’s word for the worship of the economy, colonial empire, authoritarian abuse, and patriarchy. Matt says hard things, but good things. His voice is honest and succinct. Matt Tebbe. holds a Masters of Divinity from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, has been featured in the pages of Leadership Journal and Shattered Magazine. Matt's insights are also featured in the book 'What Pastors Wish Their Congregations Knew,' authored by Kurt Fredrickson and Cameron Lee. He's also been a prominent voice in thought-provoking platforms such as Missio Alliance and The V3 Movement. Matt's collaborative spirit shines through his co-authorship of 'Having the Mind of Christ' alongside Ben Sternke which won the IVP Reader's Choice Award.
Matt is more than just a writer and thinker. He's a practitioner of transformational leadership as the co-founder of Gravity Leadership, and he serves as the co-rector of an Anglican church plant known as 'The Table,' nestled in the northeast suburbs of Indianapolis. Join us today as we dive into Matt's journey and how he balances it all with his life alongside his wife Sharon and their children, Deacon and Celeste.
To see Matt’s work, please visit his website: https://www.thetableindy.org/, https://gravityleadership.com/, https://substack.com/@matttebbe,
Time Stamps for the episode:
00:52 Introductions
03:58 Climbing Mt. Whitney
08:56 Facing Internal Demons on the Mountain
14:04 Spiritual Roots in Catholicism
18:33 Grace in Community & Abuse on Church Staff
23:57 Abusive Leadership Embraces Power and Causes Trauma
30:18 Using Your Voice with Clarity and Humility
34:36 Spiritualizing the Poor is a Hermeneutic Mistake
40:17 The God of Mammon, Power, Money, and Economy
46:45 What “Love of Money” Actually Looks Like
51:47 Exposing Undercover Idolatry
57:08 Mammon’s Weapon is Fear of Death
1:00:50 What Really Causes Inflation
1:06:27 Gatekeepers of the Bible Don’t Actually Like the Bible
1:13:14 Mammon “Works” and Why We Can’t See It.
1:18:40 How to Love our Neighbor
1:21:11 Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

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1h 23min
September 20, 2023 27: Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley, Indigenous Spirituality and De-Colonizing Christianity
What if the severe dogmatic cruelty of our modern expression of faith is an add on of Western Colonialism? What would happen if you started to pull on the thread of colonialism in your faith. What would come out? What would remain? Today I talk with Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley, an expert voice in the areas concerning spirituality, earth-care, racial and ethnic identity, diversity, peace, social justice, eco-justice, interreligious dialogue, Indigenous studies, agriculture, and spirituality. Randy is also co-founder and Program Director of the George Fox Master of Arts Intercultural Studies degree, the Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice and Eloheh Farm & Seeds. Author of 9 books, including An Indigenous theology and the Western Worldview, and host of the Peacing it all together podcast. He is a member of the Cherokee nation, and considers himself an indigenous person who follows Christ. We talk about his experiences as an indigenous person within the western church.To see Randy’s work, please visit his website: www.Randywoodley.com | www.Eloheh.org | www.elohehseeds.com
Time Stamps for the episode:
00:43 Introductions
09:06 Cherokee roots
13:30 My Oppressive Missionary Colonizer Years
19:02 Colonialism woven into the Christian faith
22:37 The Violence of Christian Supremacy
28:06 Conservative politics picks up the torch of colonialism
31:45 The Problem of Disembodied Theology
36:55 Shalom and the Failed Western Experiment
42:20 Decolonizing the Faith
47:16 Colonial Theology that needs to Go: Hell, Exclusivity, and Original Sin
51:19 The Practice of Vulnerable Conversation
53:40 Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

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56min
September 14, 2023 26: Anthony Smith: Faith, Race, and Politics
Today I talk with Faith rooted organizer, Anthony Smith. Anthony headed up the removal and relocation of a Confederate Statue in his city of Salisbury, North Carolina. We talk about his faith, his work, for the poor and marginalized of his city from his position as a pastor and city council member. He is a man rooted in place and dedicated to seeing the Kingdom of God come about in his neighborhood.
Time Stamps for the episode:
00:49 Introductions
02:39 Faith Rooted Organizer
07:04 Anthony vs Confederate Statue
11:56 An Ecumenical Exorcism of White Nationalism and Racism
17:10 An Apocalyptic moment and call
22:24 Christians call to apocalyptic action
27:15 Hyper individualism and its damage on society
33:33 The Gospel and White Jesus made an atheist
38:37 The Gospel evolve to meet us
43:50 White Christian Nationalism is a form of bad Atheism
47:53 Christianity as ideology for the nation state is bad news
52:15 A Heart attack and an existential crisis
57:35 The Sound of the Genuine
1:02:22 Don’t live apologetically
1:07:57 Pay attention and find purpose
1:13:27 Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

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1h 16min
September 06, 2023 25: Tom Rundel: Ask Me Anything Bible Deconstruction
S2 E21: Tom Rundel: Ask Me Anything: Bible Deconstruction
I solo riff on today’s pod and take on some more of the questions that y’all sent in as we talk about our approach to the Bible, how it has caused harm, and how we can change it going forward. The questions I take on are…
Erica: Is the Bible meant to be read as a set-in-stone manual to be taken literally? Is it multiple genres, full of allegory? If literal, how are readers meant to adapt it to modern life?
Jason: “If the Bible says all commandments boil down to love God and love neighbor as yourself why do churches seem to be focused more on do's and don’ts?”
Jason: “Is hell real and does it matter?”
Lance: What happens to people who never knew/heard about God when they die? Would a loving God punish someone for not accepting a truth they knew? What about babies/young children?
Time Stamps for the episode:
00:41 Introduction
02:53 The Metaphysics of Elisha
06:43 Evangelicals and Conspiracy Theories
12:22 Left Behind was a Conspiracy Theory, not a theology
18:20 Authoritarian Leaders Capitalize on Conspiracy
21:48 Does all Scripture have Equal weight?
26:19 Erica’s Question
32:10 The Problem with Fundies
37:03 4 Principles for your ongoing relationship to the Bible
41:04 The Sound of the Genuine
43:15 Jason’s Question
47:36 Is the Church human or divine? Yes
53:45 Jason and Lance’s questions: Is Hell real?
59:15 Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

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1h 1min
August 30, 2023 24: Karl Forehand: From Fundie Baptist to Spiritual without Labels
S2 E20: Karl Forehand: From Fundie Baptist to Spiritual without Labels
Often, church can become more about keeping the systems running smoothly, the people happily entertained, and money flowing into the plates. But what happens when you have to grieve or enter a season of suffering or become disabled? Karl Forehand is a former Southern Baptist Pastor and Church planter and revitalizer who went through a season of deconstruction shortly after the 2015 election cycle. He could no longer associate with a faith that was more about conservative politics, religious nationalism, and exclusion of the marginalized. He unlabeled himself, became open, and started to explore.
Karl is author of 7 books, speaker, and podcaster. He and his wife, Laura, founded The Desert Sanctuary, a resting place for spiritual nomads. Karl was a bi-vocational pastor for 20 years and has training in spiritual leadership coaching, plant-based nutrition, and spiritual direction. He lives in Missouri with his wife Laura and dog Winston. He has three grown children and two grandchildren. Karl and Laura call Rock Port, MO their home. Karl, recently disabled, is recovering from a stroke.
All of Karl’s works can be found here: https://rb.gy/pxczu
Time Stamps for the episode:
00:41 Introduction
04:37 Baptist Fundie Roots
09:07 Deconstructing Religious Hate
13:19 Farewell to Hell
17:48 Investigating New Paths
22:52 Becoming who you already are
28:20 The Difference between “Here” and “present”
32:56 The Practice of Recollection
38:19 No space for grief
42:16 I lost my Dad, Karl had a stroke, an honest conversation
46:52 A world not built for disability is hard for us
51:47 Unintentionally slowing down because of disability
55:02 Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

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57min
August 20, 2023 23: Tom Rundel: Don't Spiritualize Your Problems
S2 E19: Tom Rundel: Don’t spiritualize your problems, claim your confidence
Have you ever felt like God abandoned you and left you in the midst of a storm that you could not overcome? In this episode, I solo riff on Matthew 14’s account of Christ walking on the water and calming the storm. I take note of the parabolic writing style and use that knowledge to explore the meaning behind some of the imagery in this parable. Christ dismisses the disciples and they are battered by some wind and waves.
Time Stamps for the episode:
0:44: Introduction
4:45: Matthew 14 and the parabolic style of this story
9:05 Dismissed and abandoned by God
13:25 spiritualizing your problems gets spiritual answers that don’t work in real life
17:42 Take courage is NOT dismiss your anxiety
21:56 Claim your inner authority
26:00 God is not a fixer of problems, but an empowerer of souls
30:22 The saving grace of community
33:13 Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

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...more
35min
August 13, 2023 22: Dan White Jr: Burnout, Ego, Inner Journey to Healing
Have you ever been burned out, had PTSD, had an existential crisis? So has our guest for tToday. I talked with Dan White Jr. a church planting strategist with the V3 Movement, co-founder of the Praxis Gathering, author of 4 books, pastor and Church planter for the last 20+ years, as well as co-founding and building The Kineo Renewal and Retreat Center in Puerto Rico from the ground up with his wife Tonya.
Dan has a gentle soul with the gift of healing, which I experienced first hand at a retreat at Kineo. There he delivered his story of pastoring, burning out twice, dealing with CPTSD, struggling with his ego, and recovering to find new vision. He tells his story here today, as well as using his degree in counseling and theology to blend a helpful understanding of a pathway toward your healing.
You can find all of Dan’s materials on his website www.danwhitejr.com
Time Stamps for the episode:
2:20: Introduction
6:52: Deconstructing with Rich Mullins
11:55: Journey out of Fundie Baptist and into Anabaptist
17:17: Entering the Ministry
21:34: Experiencing Abuse and burnout in ministry
26:05: The inner work of Ego exploration
30:36: Diagnosed with CPTSD
36:04: Skimming the Ego with Howard Thurman
41:40: Cracking the Ego open for transformation
45:07: Jung’s 5 foundational needs of the ego
50:36: How to live in the liminal space of a healed ego and a broken world
55:12: Three responses from others to your true self
59:13: Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree:
@axletree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
...more
1h 1min

FAQs about Liminal Living:

How many episodes does Liminal Living have?

The podcast currently has 173 episodes available.

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