Liminal Living

By Dr. Thomas J Rundel

Welcome to the Liminal Living Podcast, where we dive deep into the realm of liminal spaces—those transitional phases where uncertainty is our companion. I'm your host and curator of conversations, Dr.... more

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How many episodes does Liminal Living have?

The podcast currently has 154 episodes available.

Liminal Living episodes:

August 13, 2023 22: Dan White Jr: Burnout, Ego, Inner Journey to Healing
Have you ever been burned out, had PTSD, had an existential crisis? So has our guest for tToday. I talked with Dan White Jr. a church planting strategist with the V3 Movement, co-founder of the Praxis Gathering, author of 4 books, pastor and Church planter for the last 20+ years, as well as co-founding and building The Kineo Renewal and Retreat Center in Puerto Rico from the ground up with his wife Tonya.
Dan has a gentle soul with the gift of healing, which I experienced first hand at a retreat at Kineo. There he delivered his story of pastoring, burning out twice, dealing with CPTSD, struggling with his ego, and recovering to find new vision. He tells his story here today, as well as using his degree in counseling and theology to blend a helpful understanding of a pathway toward your healing.
You can find all of Dan’s materials on his website www.danwhitejr.com
Time Stamps for the episode:
2:20: Introduction
6:52: Deconstructing with Rich Mullins
11:55: Journey out of Fundie Baptist and into Anabaptist
17:17: Entering the Ministry
21:34: Experiencing Abuse and burnout in ministry
26:05: The inner work of Ego exploration
30:36: Diagnosed with CPTSD
36:04: Skimming the Ego with Howard Thurman
41:40: Cracking the Ego open for transformation
45:07: Jung’s 5 foundational needs of the ego
50:36: How to live in the liminal space of a healed ego and a broken world
55:12: Three responses from others to your true self
59:13: Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree:
@axletree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
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1h 1min
August 06, 2023 21: Tom Rundel: Hell, Judgement, and Universal Reconciliation
Does hell exist? Who goes there? Does Matthew 13’s furnace reference talk about it? Today, I spout off about my views of hell, judgment, and justice. I share my thoughts around the passage from Matthew 13, commonly called the parable of the wheat and tares, where the wheat and tares are allowed to grow together until the end of the age when the wheat is harvested and put into a barn and the tares are gathered and burned in a furnace.
Does this passage talk about hell? If yes, what does it mean? If not, how do we interpret it? I also go into the four classic views of hell, Eternal Conscious Torment, Annihilationism, Purgatorial, and Universal Reconciliation, and talk about where I land these days, why, and what it means for the lived experience of faith.
Time Stamps for the episode:
0:40: Introduction
2:02: Matthew 13, weeds and wheat
3:08: Eternal Conscious Torment is the central dogma of fundamentalism
7:40: Judaistic Roots of Mattew 13
12:26: Agricultural Sabotage!
15:44: The Big Baddie in the Bible is not Satan, it’s Empire
20:49: The Kingdom of God is like… 7 different stories
26:14: Justice and Judgment
31:35: Hell and the end of the world
36:51: Gritty Justice in Matthew
42:01: The Daniel Reference in Matthew 13
45:07: 4 Views of Hell, 2 Views of Justice
51:48: Universal Reconciliation
55:52: Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree:
@axletree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

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1h
July 30, 2023 20: Lance Hough: The Abuse of Commodifying Creativity in Church
S2 E16: Lance Hough, The Abuse of Commodifying Creativity
What happens when a church continually commodifies creativity for a Sunday morning experience? Today, I talked with a friend and former church creative director, Lance Hough. Lance experienced leadership abuse under a few different pastors that led to an existential crisis concerning his faith and how we experience it in a modern western church experience, and the eventual leaving of ministry and healing of trauma it caused. Lance is a creative individual, and many churches can take advantage of creatives and transform art into a religious commodity to be bought and sold and traded on a Sunday. It ends up being an abusive cycle for those who create and have a stunting effect on the maturity of the attendees who become religious consumers.
Time Stamps for the episode:
2:08: Introduction
4:26: Faith roots
7:47: Serving in Church to Career in Church
11:32: How the Sausage is Made
15:51: Abusive Leadership
19:56: Crisis of Career
24:57: Questioning the Leadership and structure
29:42: A Beautiful New Community
35:07: A Fresh Start in Ministry
40:37: Existential Crisis of a Creative Leader’s Heart
46:06: Church Franchising
51:55: Putting the “Ass” in “P-ass-tor”
57:13: Losing Community Again
1:02:52 Commodifying Creativity
1:08:03 Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree:
@axletree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

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1h 12min
July 23, 2023 19: Caleb Jacobson: A Journey to Agnosticism
What happens when a pastor’s kid and a worship leader from a Marshill satellite in Seattle becomes an Agnostic? Today on the podcast I talk with long time friend, Caleb Jacobson. Caleb comes from a conservative evangelical background, is a pastor's kid in a family with a heritage of pastoral vocation. Caleb had an existential crisis with his faith, hit a reset button on belief, and reconstructed what he could. He left the pastorate and left the faith and became an Agnostic. I think that it is important to learn of all kinds of Liminal experiences and stories and practice empathy and understanding. I remain curious and ask questions seeking to understand Caleb’s perspectives and learn along the way. I hope you do as well.
Time Stamps for this episode:
2:21: Introduction
4:18: Rockstar for Jesus
9:16: Working at Marshill
14:45: Cleaning the slate of all belief
19:36: Journeying toward Atheism, stopping at Agnosticism
24:08: Questioning the Christian Worldview indoctrination
28:05: Being Ok with the discomfort of unbelief
31:25: Why Atheism and not progressive Christianity?
36:22: Finding peace
41:05: Fear of Death and life eternal
46:53: What is life after death?
51:49: Liminal Living Practice of mindful meditation
56:02: How’d your family take this?
1:01:46 Conclusions
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

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1h 4min
July 16, 2023 18: Tom Rundel: Mental Health and Meditation Edition
Today I asked many of you to submit your questions to me for an Ask Me Anything episode, and I was absolutely shocked at the amount of questions I received. I have four pages of your questions, and today I take on just one, but I do a deep dive into the world of mental health. While I am not a mental health expert, I have much work on the intersection of spirituality and mental health. So today we get very practical about how much of the Western Evangelical tradition does not equip us to handle things like trauma and stress, but instead increases it in many cases. So we take on the spiritual practice of meditation today, what happens physiologically and spiritually as we discuss Tim’s question:
“How do you view the confluence of spirituality and mental health? In other words, what have you learned about how to navigate difficult seasons from both a spiritual perspective and a mental health perspective?”
With a revisit and deep dive into Jason’s question:
Is there a difference between Christian meditation and meditation in other religions?
Time Stamps for the episode:
0:59: Introduction
2:57: Spirituality and Psychological Health
8:31: Self-Knowledge vs Self-Righteousness
14:36: Church only took me half way
19:50: Becoming Fully Human and Fully Alive
26:00: The Spirituality of the Nervous System
31:11: Evangelicalism stressed me out
36:44: The Spirituality of the Parasympathetic Nervous System
41:06: The Physiology of Meditation
46:05: The Unconscious Mind
51:06: 6 Forms of Christian Meditation: Lectio Divina, Visio Divina, Ignatian Exercises
56:36: 6 Forms of Christian Meditation: Centering Prayer, Mantra Prayer, Breath Prayer
1:00:18: Meditation of other faith traditions
1:02:11: Conclusions
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree:
@axletree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

...more
1h 4min
July 09, 2023 17: Tom Rundel: Ask Me Anything: Spiritual Practice Edition
Today I asked many of you to submit your questions to me for an Ask Me Anything episode, and I was absolutely shocked at the amount of questions I received. I have four pages of your questions, and today I took on four of them.
#1 from Joseph: Do I have to love myself in order to have a relationship with God or to love God?
#2 from Jason: How does one "grow in their faith?"
#3 from Jacki: What is the point of praying on behalf of someone? Does a person/s praying for someone bring them to the attention of God and he gives them grace, protection, or healing? My thought is that God is already taking care of that person and has them on his radar. It just doesn’t seem like we need to remind God to have grace or mercy on an individual.
#4 from Jeremie: Do you think the current interpretation of prayer in modern Christianity is lost in translation? Meaning instead of asking an omnipotent spirit in the sky for favors, prayer is intended to be a time of meditation and introspection, maybe similar to meditative practices in other religious traditions.
#5 from Jason: Is there a difference between Christian meditation and meditation in other religions?
#6 from Tim: - If you could give spiritual advice to your 20 year old self, what would the most important thing you'd say?
Time Stamps for the episode:
0:45: Introduction
3:45: The Revivalists Screwed with us
8:48: The Worst Sermon Ever Preached
13:53: Charles Finney Ruins Church
19:16: The Origin of “Backslider” Theology
26:13: Fostered Religious Anxiety
32:45: Stages of Love
37:57: Psychological Projection and Hate
42:43: 3 Dimensional Spiritual Growth: Discipleship
48:25: 3 Dimensional Spiritual Growth: Spiritual Formation, Contemplation
53:50: What Does Prayer Do?
1:01:44: Christian Meditation vs Other Religions
1:03:48: Advice I’d give my 20 year old self: Chill out
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree:
@axletree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

...more
1h 10min
July 02, 2023 16: Tom Rundel: Ask Me Anything Pt 1: Suffering Edition
Today I asked many of you to submit your questions to me for an Ask Me Anything episode, and I was absolutely shocked at the amount of questions I received. I have four pages of your questions, and today I took on four of them.
#1 from Paul: How do you recognize God during deconstruction when God seems to have completely disappeared?
#2 from Scott: When there are tragedies in people's lives, what other things can we genuinely say to them other than “we are praying for you”, or “it’s all in Gods plan” that will be helpful in their situation?
#3 from Lance: The problem of evil; "If there is a loving God, then why does He allow bad things to happen?"
#4 Tim: When you have gone through your toughest season(s), what was your spiritual "North Star?" Along the same lines... what was your biggest fear during that season? And along the same lines... where were you most misunderstood?
Time Stamps for the episode:
0:45: Introduction
2:41: Paul: Finding God’s presence during a Deconstruction of irreconcilable ideas
12:28: Paul: Finding God’s presence during Deconstruction in a Season of Suffering
19:37: Paul: Finding God’s presence during Deconstruction due to abuse
25:42: Paul: Finding God’s presence during a Deconstruction of Dark Night of the Soul
30:53: Scott: The best thing to say when someone is suffering, anxiety dumping is not it
38:47: Lance: If God is all powerful AND all loving, why is there suffering?
49:08: Tim: During a season of suffering what was your North Star?
58:19: Tim: During a season of suffering how were you misunderstood and what was your greatest fear?
1:02:28: Outro
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree:
@axletree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

...more
1h 5min
June 25, 2023 15: Kevin Sweeney: The Joy of Letting Go
Today I talked to Kevin Sweeney about his newest book “The Joy of Letting Go…,” eventually we got there, at least. First we talk about a lot of amazing things, his journey as a teenager using psychedelic mushrooms and meeting God, his journey into Bible College, his deconstruction from that understanding and into Black Womanist Liberation Theology. Kevin is a wise man with a unique journey, and that makes it hard to sum up our conversation in a paragraph.
Kevin was co-founder and lead pastor of Imagine Church in Honolulu for almost ten years, He was co-founder of the Honolulu based creative collective The (un)Commons, He has also organized and taught multiple Enneagram Experience events in Hawai’i and California, he helped lead “Saying Grace,” a curated gathering of dinners and stories between the church and the LGBTQ community in Honolulu. He is the host of podcast “The Church Needs Therapy” and is a best selling author. His two books are “The Making of a Mystic: My Journey with Mushrooms, My Life as a Pastor, and Why It’s Okay For Everyone to Relax,” and “The Joy of Letting Go.” He currently lives and surfs In Honolulu with his wife and co-founder of Imagine, Christine, and their two kids, True and Mikayla.
Listen to his podcast: https://rb.gy/iwemt
Website: www.https://www.kevinsweeneynow.com/
His on Amazon: https://rb.gy/3i8sh
Time Stamps for the episode:
2:19: Faith Roots and leaving the Catholic Church
7:48: Meeting God on Psychedelic Mushrooms, and an existential crisis
13:02: The search for what’s real, not just what’s right
18:09: Building a system of Belief at Bible College, then “going emergent”
22:53: A call to be a pastor and not knowing what that meant
27:35: The Summer of Emergent
33:11: Finding truth in Black Womanist Liberation Theology
38:16: Voices who shape us along the journey, stages of beleif
45:07: Voices from higher up the mountain speaking to us at different stages in different ways
51:17: Writing The Joy of Letting Go
57:29: Letting go is not spiritual bypassing but walking the paschal mystery
1:03:13: The Gospel narratives of Letting Go.
1:08:25: We don’t want to wake up
1:10:18: Conclusion
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree:
@axletree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

...more
1h 13min
June 18, 2023 14: Rohadi Nagassar: Race and Deconstructing Whiteness
Today I talk to Rohadi Nagassar about his newest book “When We Belong. Reclaiming Christianity on the Margins.” from Herald Press. Rohadi writes and speaks on the topics of decolonizing, liberation, and deconstructing western Christianity. And today we talk about just that, focusing in on talking about Deconstructing white supremacy and whiteness from our faith. He has planted two churches including an inner-city multi-ethnic expression called Cypher Church. He has also written extensively in the areas of missions and church leadership including his book, “Thrive. Ideas to lead the church in post-Christendom”.
Rohadi lives in Canada, on Treaty 7 Lands, otherwise known as Calgary, and holds a Business Certificate from Mount Royal College, a BA in Economics from the University of Calgary, and a Master of Divinity from Canadian Theological Seminary. His experience includes non-profit work in both governance and organizational development. He is the past-chair of ACT Alberta, one of the largest anti-human trafficking NGOs in Canada. He’s also a director with Mosaic Ministries.
Rohadi’s private sector experience includes running his marketing consultancy firm for over 20 years.
Listen to his podcast: Faith in a Fresh Vibe: https://www.rohadi.com/podcast/
Website: www.rohadi.com
Twitter: @rohadi
Instagram: @rohadi.nagassar
His books: shop.rohadi.com
Time Stamps for the episode:
2:05: Tell me about your people
7:05: Finding the roots of our people before assimilation
10:40: Genetic and Generational residual trauma
14:52: “Faith roots: the only people of color in a white evangelical church
17:51: What ain’t right: White supremacy
22:29: Finding Belonging
25:35: What is actually happening in deconstruction
31:39: naming the powers of white-ness
37:42: White-ness IS the water we all swim in
44:04: White folks can find their people and roots too
47:04: White Folks roots can depolarize us from white-ness politics
49:08: Wholistic Belonging: Self, Community, Land, God
53:27: Assimilation vs Belonging
58:30: Attempts at diversity
1:03:00: Four Pillars of White Supremacy
1:06:09: Shifts in society toward Post Christian
1:11:16: Liminal Living Practices
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree:
@axletree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

...more
1h 18min
June 11, 2023 13: Dr Dave Beach: Deconstructing from Suffering
Dr Dave Beach lost his wife to cancer, and it triggered a deconstruction of his assumptions about the world. He found out that the propositions he claimed were not embedded deep in his own soul. He went on a journey to make sense of this event in light of his faith and eventually wrote a dissertation on the topic of Christianity and suffering with the hopes of meeting people at the intersection of their faith and suffering with hospitality and care. Dave is a retired counselor, college teacher, a current author, speaker, chaplain, and spiritual formation presenter, as well as an executive director of Four Health Family Resource Center Inc, in Saranac MI.
You can find Dave’s book here: https://rb.gy/9ri2p and
You can Dave’s Dissertation here: https://digitalcommons.georgefox.edu/dmin/281/
Below are the topics and time stamps of the issues we cover which includes,
2:23: Introductions
6:05: Faith Roots
8:11: Bad Songs that shaped his theology and expectation
10:23: “Faith” insulating us from reality
12:34: The First domino of deconstruction: Congregation vs my Dad
17:11: Power dynamics in churches
19:16: Pastoral Authority
22:43: A dissertation to make space for those who suffer
27:00: Jesus, the Man of Sorrows
31:50: Losing my wife to cancer
36:31: Trauma: shattering the assumptive world
39:00: Doubt, struggle, unbelief, AS a form of faith
43:46: The Role of God within suffering: Incarnation and Trinity
48:55: Suffering leads to awakening, but what about trauma damage?
54:51: Post Traumatic Growth
59:28: 5 Views of suffering in the Christian journey
1:04:47: Spiritual bypassing, disassociation, and transcendence
1:10:24: Suffering as initiation into reality, and God
1:12:39: Labels vs essence. Christian as noun and not adjective
1:19:18: Suffering dissolving illusion, bringing us into contact with reality
1:24:15: How is my faith more than a set of propositions?
1:25:49: Hope is not an emotion but an imagination
1:28:19: Conclusion
All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree:
@axletree
Sponsors
Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)
Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)
Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

Connect
Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow
Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living

...more
1h 29min

FAQs about Liminal Living:

How many episodes does Liminal Living have?

The podcast currently has 154 episodes available.

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