From the Poo Museum to Freud, enjoy the meandering journey of this episode's conversation. Jane and Fi also discuss chaff, Romantasy, and property shows.

Plus, the executive director of PEN Ukraine, Tetyana Teren, discusses the work of her late friend Victoria Amelina and Victoria’s book 'Looking at Women, Looking at War'.

The next book club pick has been announced! 'Eight Months on Ghazzah Street' is by Hilary Mantel.

If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [email protected]

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Podcast Producer: Eve Salusbury

Executive Producer: Rosie Cutler

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