Have you been taught that all emotions except joy are bad? That you need to "count it all joy" in such a way that in your church or religious circles emotions were taught as bad or good, Christians don't have big emotions like sadness, anger, or fear? Today is not a discussion like that!. Dr. Stephanie & Dan talk with Chris & Jen Coursey about REAL joy, and that joy is not a choice, and that joy does not mean denying or diminishing other emotions. Join our discussion today to learn:
Joy vs. Happiness
Managing and Processing the Big 6 Emotions
Remaining Relational and your Christ-centered self when you have big emotions!
 Many ND Christian relationships are high conflict, full of trauma, and low or no joy! Is it even possible?
Dan and Stephanie discuss Courseys' book, 30 Days of Joy, and how they modified it to be a NeuroDiverse Christian Couple.
 This month, the 5-6 podcasts all go together! We encourage you and invite you to listen to the entire month of June in the sequence they were produced.
 Want to know more about the Courseys and THRIVEworks? https://thrivetoday.org/
 START NOW when the kids are young to process their emotions in a healthy way! Materials available for parents!
 Free Download of the Emotion Wheel and Where Emotions Live in your body: Free PDF
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BvYRLx9zRiVE_8ucjgYfNYzbOq8BUTQ9/view
 More About Chris:
For nearly 25 years, Chris has been developing and practicing brain-based solutions to make relationships work. He started out his career specializing in severe trauma and abuse. For several years, he also pastored a small congregation in Michigan. Chris is a published author with ten books in print, including “The Joy Switch: How Your Brain’s Secret Circuit Affects Your Relationships…And How You Can Activate It.” He co-authored his most recent book, “The 4 Habits of Raising Joy-Filled Kids”.
 Chris enjoys spending time with Jen and their two sons, Matthew and Andrew. In addition to studying, writing, jogging, and exercising, he enjoys the outdoors and is one of the rare people who actually like the snow.
 More About Jen:
Jen is passionate about seeing mothers, fathers, and families equipped with the 19 relational skills needed to thrive. As the mother of 2 active teenagers, Jen is grateful to have learned these important skills later in life, as relational skills have no doubt preserved her sanity and prepared her to raise a thriving family in the midst of the ongoing demands from her family and her ministry.
 Jen started the Thriving Mamas blog and is excited to share her parenting and life experiences as well as pass on the skills God has used to transform her life.

In this insightful episode of Neurodiverse Christian Couples, hosts Stephanie and Dan welcome Ed Khouri, President of Equipping Hearts for the Harvest and author of "Becoming a Face of Grace." Together, they explore the crucial interplay between grace and joy, clarifying how genuine grace—being seen as special and favored without earning it—naturally leads to joy, the gladness of being together. Can you have grace AND have boundaries? What about the phrase, "Just give me grace."
 The conversation tackles deep relational issues common in neurodiverse marriages, such as navigating attachment pain, understanding the differences between sin, transgression, and iniquity, and developing effective boundaries without enabling harmful behavior. Ed emphasizes practical strategies for couples to build emotional capacity and relational resilience, including shared quieting exercises and storytelling techniques aimed at fostering mutual joy and appreciation.
 Listeners will find hope and practical guidance for overcoming challenges related to executive functioning, emotional regulation, and relational misunderstandings. Ed Khouri’s insights underscore how grace, boundaries, and joy work together to nurture a healthier, thriving neurodiverse marriage.
 About our Guest: Ed Khouri
Ed is passionate about helping churches, leaders, and small groups develop thriving, healthy
communities rooted in grace, joy, and peace. He was ordained in 1988 and president of
Equipping Hearts for the Harvest. He serves as an Elder at his church.
Ed leads workshops in churches and ministries worldwide, equipping workers to serve hurting
men and women and their communities. He regularly collaborates with groups that include
Thrive Today, Life Model Works, The International Substance Abuse and Addiction Coalition
(ISAAC), and Youth With A Mission’s Addictive Behavior Counseling School. He’s taught classes
for students from approximately 70 nations,
Ed authored “Becoming a Face of Grace: Navigating Lasting Relationships with God and
Others,” “Beyond Becoming: A Field Guide to Sustainable, Transformational Communities,” and
“The Weight of Leadership: How Codependency and Misplaced Mercy Undermine Life and
Ministry.” Working with Dr. Jim Wilder, he co-authored the “Restarting” and “Belonging”
Modules of the Connexus Program. He is also the co-author of “Joy Starts Here: The
Transformation Zone.”
He lives with the love of his life, Maritza, in Conover, North Carolina.
 Equipping Hearts
Ed and his wife, Maritza, founded Equipping Hearts for the Harvest as a 501c3 non-profit
ministry. In 2004. Our goal is to help equip churches, ministries, pastors, leaders, workers,
and volunteers worldwide so that they can effectively serve the needs of their entire
community – including those who wrestle with addictions, trauma, abuse, codependency,
and other life problems. We
 Teach to describe the grace-based framework needed for change,
 Provide skill training that leads to transformation
 Create materials that allow communities to practice and grow skills that sustain
transformation.
 For more information: https://www.equippinghearts.com/

🧠 Episode Summary:
 In this thought-provoking conversation, Dan sits down with Dr. Jeff Holsclaw, co-author (with his wife, Cyd Holsclaw) of Does God Really Like Me? Discovering the God Who Wants to Be With Me. This episode dives deep into the transformative idea that God not only loves us but also genuinely delights in being with us—and what that means for our theology, relationships, and everyday life.
 Geoff shares the journey of shifting from a theological framework focused solely on God’s love to one that also emphasizes His joy and delight. Using vivid metaphors, biblical narratives, and attachment theory, Jeff reframes our understanding of God’s presence, the nature of sin, and the redemptive storyline of Scripture. The discussion includes reflections on parenting, marriage, identity, and how we can mirror God’s delight in our relationships with others.
 ⸻
 🔑 Key Takeaways:
• “Love is built from a thousand little likes.” Shifting language from “God loves you” to “God likes you” often draws people in and resonates on a deeper emotional level.
• Attachment & Theology: Holsclaw connects attachment theory with biblical narratives to explain how God’s presence and purpose form the secure foundation of faith.
• Rewriting the Narrative of Sin: Instead of viewing sin as moral failure alone, Jeff frames it as a rupture in our capacity to remain in God’s presence—one that God actively works to repair.
• Parenting as Presence & Purpose: Fathers and husbands are encouraged to embody both high care and high challenge—to build joyful relationships while nurturing confidence and agency.
• Idol Language Reclaimed: The Genesis image of humans as “little gods” or living idols reframes identity as active representation of God’s nature in the world—not as something static or 2D.
• Reconciliation as Family Business: The episode closes with the idea that salvation is about repairing ruptures—God’s delight includes restoring us, and we’re invited to model that in our own relationships.
 ⸻
 📚 Resources & Mentions:
• Does God Really Like Me? by Geoff & Cyd Holsclaw
• Prodigal Christianity by Geoff Holsclaw and David Fitch
• Upcoming book: Landscapes of the Soul: How the Science and Spirituality of Attachment Can Change Your Faith
• Related thinkers: Dr. Jim Wilder, Karl Lehman, Michael Cusick
• Scripture Focus: Genesis 1–3, Luke 15 (The “Good Father” story), Temple theology, themes of joy & presence
 ⸻
 👤 About the Guest:
 Dr. Geoff Holsclaw
• PhD, Marquette University
• Co-Pastor of Youth and Families, Vineyard North
• Affiliate Professor of Theology, Northern Seminary (Lyle, IL)
• Author, speaker, and podcaster focused on the intersection of neuroscience, attachment, and Christian formation
 📬 Contact & More from Geoff:
🌐 Website: https://embodiedfaith.life
🎧 Podcast: Attaching to God
📝 Substack: Found via website
📘 Google: “Geoff Holsclaw” (with a G!)

Many couples who receive a later in life identification of autism or neurodiversity in marriage come to couples' work traumatized. In addition, we may come to marriage with our own unresolved trauma from life! How does unresolved or unprocessed trauma impact your neurodiverse marriage? We will be discussing that today with Dr. Karl Lehman.

About our Guest:
Dr. Karl Lehman is a board-certified psychiatrist with twenty-five years and more than 40,000 hours of clinical experience. He has worked tenaciously throughout his career to integrate his personal Christian faith with medical science, modern mental health care, and his rigorous scientific training. He has researched and worked especially to integrate faith-based emotional healing with insights provided by psychological and neurological research. Dr. Lehman is also deeply committed to his own growth and healing.
Dr. Lehman has been married for over 20 years to Charlotte, and he and Charlotte work as a team to apply everything they learn about growth and healing in the context of their marriage.
Author of Outsmarting Yourself and The Immanuel Approach.

 How to work with Jana: https://www.janamsmith.com/

This month is focused on neuroscience and your neurodiverse marriage! This entire month, we have elements brought in from LifeModel Works, Deeper Walk Ministries & Thrive Trainings, and those who are ministry partner friends! Today is Amy H. Glazer.

Our topic begins with Fear Bonds, and we took some questions that you, the listeners, had on this that include:

• How to reduce the intensity of fear bonds when in a relationship that has ongoing trauma or reminders of the fear bonds?

   

• How do you process an emotion without amplifying it? When I hear "return to joy," it feels like "don't feel your feelings - just be happy", and I know that is not what you are saying, but what do I do with my feelings?

  

• How do we identify fear bonds in our close relationships, which we are accustomed to that pattern?

  

• Authenticity and connection- can you achieve that with someone you have had a fear bond with? Can a fear-bonded person really turn to a joy or love bond? That seems impossible after so many decades.

 About Amy from the Thrive Works Website:
Amy is the Director of Development and Journey Groups Director for Alive & Well, author of the Journey Group curriculum, and Director of the Journey Group Leadership Community. She leads weekend and 5-day events for THRIVEtoday and has taught in the Advanced Counseling Ministry training at YWAM Kona, as well as the OneLife program at Southern Wesleyan University. With Alive & Well, Amy directs the Journey Group program and mentors students training as Immanuel Encounter Guides with Alive & Well’s training program.
 Amy is a specialist in small group dynamics and creating online communities. Journey Groups is a relational discipleship small group program that guides members in practicing the relational skills taught at Thrive and develops the topics of belonging, maturity, heart values, true identity, God’s perspective, Immanuel living, and healing, as found in the books Living from the Heart Jesus Gave You, Transforming Fellowship, Joyful Journey, and Relational Skills in the Bible, which Amy co-authored with Chris Coursey.
 Group's Amy Mentioned Found Here:
https://www.alivewell.org/transformed-by-joy

Discussion:
Join Dr. Stephanie and Meredith Sinclair of Life Behavior Consulting to discuss how communication skills are key to relational skills and meaningful connections. Today, we discuss how to assess social interest, discern if someone is genuine or manipulative, cyber safety skills, and find sources of friendships.
 About the Guest:
Speaker Biography: Meredith Sinclair is the Executive Director/Founder of LIFE Behavior
Consulting, LLC. Meredith holds a Master’s Degree in Rehabilitation Counseling from Georgia State
University and a Bachelor’s Degree in Psychology from Pennsylvania State University. She is a
certified Rehabilitation Counselor and a Certified PEERS for Young Adults Provider, School-Based Provider, and Telehealth provider. Meredith loves working with people with Neurodiverse brain styles to help them learn the skills to build their confidence and independence in working on their goals in life, whatever those may be. Meredith's specialty is helping her clients uncover and leverage their strengths and take action steps to apply the skills they are learning in the real world. She is an advocate for Neurodiversity in the workplace and believes that anyone who has the desire to work CAN work and have a fulfilling career with the right supports.

Find out more at:
https://lifebehaviorconsulting.com/

Discussion: Dr. Stephanie Holmes and Dr. Sean Hirt discuss their clinical training and how neither was trained in neurodiversity despite the update in thinking about the Autism Spectrum (DSM-IV Asperger's). Dr. Holmes and Dr. Hirt discuss that applying neurotypical marriage models to Neurodiverse couples is not only not helpful but potentially harmful. Dr. Hirt discusses the role of the central nervous system and its impact on regulation and how typical marriage work may disrupt both partners. 
Have you heard from your pastor or Christian counselor- Marriage is Marriage, or Marriage is supposed to be hard. Or you tell your counselor you are a neurodiverse couple, or you attend an intensive, and they tell you that your neurodiversity doesn't matter- their model will work if you have enough faith?
Let's Discuss That!
 About Our Guest: Dr. Hirt has an array of clinical experience in a variety of settings, including private practice, residential treatment centers, non-public schools, and emergency shelters. He is particularly sought out for his expertise in treating and addressing anxiety, depression, poor self-esteem, behavioral issues, and autism spectrum disorder in children and adolescents. Other areas of focus include substance abuse, life-transition issues & trauma-related disorders.
In therapy, Dr. Hirt uses empirically driven modalities to address the client’s needs. He derives techniques from client-centered, cognitive-behavioral theory, attachment theory, as well as family systems. Dr. Hirt works closely with all clients to develop an integrative, yet client-centered approach to treatment. More specifically, Dr. Hirt works with individuals to assist in developing the abilities and resources needed to reach goals, overcome hardships, and improve life satisfaction. When not working, you will often find him at parks and trails with family and friends. Dr. Hirt enjoys hiking, biking, running, and rock climbing! He also enjoys watching sports and traveling. However, his favorite pastime of all is spending time with his wife, daughters, and dog (Frank).
Looking for Assessment: https://www.hirtpsychology.com/sean-hirt

Welcome back to Just the Guys, where a handful of neurodiverse men get real about growth, relationships, and life post-diagnosis — all without a script, but with a ton of heart.
In this reflective and candid episode, the guys dive into the evolution of their emotional intelligence and how their journeys have led to stronger relationships, especially with their partners and kids. The catalyst? A missed celebrity interview and a realization: if flying fish exist, maybe change and empathy aren’t so impossible after all.
We follow Jeremy, Greg, and Dan as they discuss what transformation looks like in real life. Jeremy opens up about becoming a more proactive and thoughtful parent and husband, learning to share the mental load and prioritize emotional presence. Greg brings in stories from marriage and retirement, revealing how putting “relationship before task” has become his new mantra. Dan brings it full circle with powerful insights on values, intentionality, and what love looks like, choosing family over hockey — literally.
Throughout the conversation, themes of vulnerability, emotional attunement, and the gradual embrace of empathy surface repeatedly. They compare personal growth to planting seeds — change doesn’t happen overnight, but with daily intention and care, real transformation takes root.

Key takeaways:
• Empathy isn’t just possible for neurodiverse men — it’s learnable and life-changing.
• Change starts with being open to a different version of yourself.
• Small, intentional choices create the foundation for a lasting connection.
• Relationships thrive not when we’re perfect, but when we show up — emotionally and consistently.

This episode is equal parts heart, humor, and hope. So, whether you’re neurodivergent yourself or walking alongside someone who is, you’ll leave with a little more faith that growth is not only possible — it’s inevitable, if you’re willing to show up and keep planting seeds.


🎧 Tune in, lean in, and maybe even catch a flying fish of your own.

Today, we discuss the newly released book aimed at NeuroDiverse Christian Couples and Coaches! Dr. Stephanie & Barbara discuss Uniquely US: Gracefully Navigating the Maze of NeuroDiverse Marriage. We will talk about the research that went into the book and how clergy, chaplains, coaches, counselors, and clinicians can use this book along with a workbook and videos for ND Christian Couples!
Where can you order the book?
https://www.christianneurodiversemarriage.com/uniquelyus
 Download the Free Workbook:
https://www.christianneurodiversemarriage.com/_files/ugd/410eee_5c2856b40d0a4a1bb65a69c38f384161.pdf
 Find the Free Videos:
https://www.holmesasr.com/copy-of-uniquely-us
 Dan or Stephanie is having classes forming for the fall and spring semesters. Dr. Stephanie usually has a summer course for wives. Find out about group coaching/classes at:
https://www.holmesasr.com/womengroups
https://www.holmesasr.com/mengroups
 Want to work with Barbara Grant?
https://www.christianneurodiversemarriage.com/copy-of-referrals