Does there come a point where you stop worrying about being likeable? 

Phoebe Saintilan-Stocks is the founder of media start-up Missing Perspectives. She is also the author of a new book called The Right Hand. In it, she speaks to chiefs of staff to some of the world’s most consequential leaders, from Jacinda Ardern to Nelson Mandela. 

In this episode, Phoebe shares what she's learned about leadership from these remarkable figures and discusses her own leadership trajectory as an entrepreneur and self-described "reformed people pleaser". 

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.