In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, Jason and Sarah Hull break down one of the most expensive mistakes property management business owners make: hiring based solely on what the business appears to need instead of what the owner actually needs. They explain why this common approach leaves entrepreneurs overwhelmed, wearing the wrong hats, and trapped inside businesses they no longer enjoy running.

You'll learn how a simple time study can reveal where your energy, focus, and profitability are being lost, why every new hire should solve both a business problem and an owner problem, and how reallocating your time toward high-value activities creates sustainable growth.

You'll Learn

[00:00] Why Most Property Managers Hire the Wrong Way [03:18] The Hidden Cost of Bad Hiring Decisions [08:25] Using a Time Study to Find Your Next Hire [13:05] Balancing Your Needs With the Business's Needs [18:12] Why Every Business Owner Needs an Assistant [22:20] Stop Doing Low-Value Work [26:15] Freeing Yourself to Focus on Revenue Growth [29:10] Building a Team That Creates Freedom

Quotables

"One bad hiring mistake is usually a 10 grand minimum mistake." Jason Hull

"You cannot build the right team around the wrong person." Jason Hull

"Every team member should be born out of a time study." Jason Hull

"The point of having a business is you should get more fulfillment, more freedom, more contribution, more support." Jason Hull

Resources

DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind

DoorGrow Academy

DoorGrow on YouTube

DoorGrowClub

DoorGrowLive

Transcript

Jason Hull (00:00)

Okay, we are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGro, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGro, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses.

We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right. So today's topic, we're going to talk about how to make the decision as a property management business owner to hire. How to effectively decide it's time to hire and how not to screw this up. So we're not going to get into the whole hiring process. We've talked about that a bit on some other

Episodes. If you'd like to hear more about that, reach out to us or check out our other episodes. But today we're going to talk about how to make the right decision of who to get and when to hire and who you need in the business. Cool.

one bad hiring mistake is usually a 10 grand minimum mistake. And anybody that's gone through hiring a lot of team members, you know. Like I've hired lots over the years, and it's been some of them can be pretty painful when you make a bad move. So you want to make sure you make good decisions. So

So here's how most people do it, which is wrong. How most people do it is they look, what does the business need? And they're like, the business needs a maintenance coordinator, or the business needs this. And they just continually keep giving the business what it needs. And so this I call kind of the solopreneur way of hiring hiring. They think the way a solopreneur thinks, they think I do everything. Now I need to hire somebody to do these other pieces that the business needs. And they start building a team based around.

What the business wants.

every team member, should exist if they are taking something off of your plate because you do everything initially. Now, sort of, they're like, well, you know, I'm doing the maintenance stuff, so I need a maintenance coordinator. And that's kind of works. But the problem is if you continually build your team based on what the business seems to be asking for and what it needs, and you're not taking care of yourself, you end up with an entire team.

And you're still miserable in your own business. And this is pretty much most business owners at NARPAM. This is most of the people in the two to 400 door range. So I'm calling you out. So if you are a member of NARPAM and you have between two to 400 units and you are still wearing hats you don't enjoy in your business, I promise you you have the wrong team. Why? Because I know for a fact you cannot build the right team around the wrong person. And so if you're still wearing hats you don't enjoy,

Meaning you are showing up as the wrong person in the business, doing stuff that you don't like doing, that's not your favorite thing, and you've built an entire team around you, you have the wrong team. All right. So how do we fix this? Well, first you have to know that that is your case. So sometimes you talk to people and they have no idea. They don't realize. They go, no, I have a great team. My team is awesome. I I really

So it's hard to fix a problem if you don't recognize that it's the problem. It's almost like when you have a plumbing leak. It's hard to fix that leak if you're not sure where the leak is coming from. So we need to identify where the issue is and then rip the walls open. If we just start ripping the walls open and looking for the leak, it's

just

pretty expensive and inefficient. So we need to recognize, hey, there's a problem leak here. And then we need to identify where is the leak and what is the actual problem. So I'd say that's the very first thing. And sometimes that's also really hard for people to do. Especially when they're attached to their teams. Like, no, I love my team. How many times have we heard that? I love my team. I have to my team's great. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So but they might be great. You might have great people, but they are not

Your ideal team because you're still involved in stuff. So usually what we do is we have them do a time study. This is how we figure out five different currencies: time, energy, focus, cash, and effort. These are the five things that you have to invest in the business that the business has to invest. These are your resources and

In order to hire a new team member or bring somebody else in, you have to make sure that if you're going to reallocate these resources, you've got to do it in a way that's really effective. Otherwise, this could be dangerous. So a lot of times I'll share the analogy so people understand how important this is. if you've ever seen Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom, Indiana Jones, he's running from this giant boulder. He's carrying this gold statue. He's trying to like

Get out of there, and this boulder's rolling down the hill at him, and he's trying to get out of there as quick as possible. Otherwise, squish, Indiana dies, right? So, this is a great analogy for business. So here's how I look at this. Imagine this picture. There is an entrepreneur running from the boulder. What is the boulder? Expenses. It's always moving, it's always coming after you. And sometimes that boulder picks up speed or grows as the business grows.

And so that's expenses. Indiana Jones running, that's sales and revenue generation and generating cash like for the business. The gap in between Indiana Jones running and the boulder, which is expenses, is cash flow. If the business runs out of cash flow, the business is essentially dead. The business dies. Or it goes into debt, which it's just eventually going to die. So we want to make sure that we are.

Constantly generating revenue. The speed, the slope of this path is the speed of which the business grows. And so if we want to grow really fast, we spend a lot more money. There's a lot more expenses. Everything's moving a lot faster.

And so this is where hiring can cause some big problems, or rolling out new tech can cause big problems because we get distracted and we're no longer focused on revenue generation and that has to stay the main thing. So you've got to keep running and you can't stop and unless you're able to somehow dramatically reduce expenses. So it slows down or it's less scary. But you've got to keep running. So we do a time study, and this helps us figure out time, energy, focus, cash, and effort.

Where am I currently investing all this? And is it giving me what I want? Is this according to my highest priorities and what I need? So this is the lens we look at for you. So imagine a Venn diagram with two circles. Circle on the left is you. Circle on the right is the business. Most entrepreneurs build their team, build their systems, build the business, only focusing on the business. And so they end up neglected and they end up more and more miserable. And they end up with a business that becomes like almost like a

master to them. You're like a slave. If you ever felt like a waking up and you're a slave to your own business, you've put too much attention on the business and not enough on yourself.

What happens if your expenses catch up to Indiana Jones? Squished. Right? He gets squished. And as a business owner, it's not a great thing to feel squished. But there is something that probably should be squished. And that's pests. Yuck. So moving into a new place is exciting, but setting up utilities, that's a big pest, isn't it? Yep.

That's where Utility Profit comes in. It's a free tool that property managers share with their tenants during move-in, and it completely takes a headache out of getting the utilities set up. So it's less stressful for you and for them. So here's how it works: tenants get a personalized page with their utility options that are already mapped out for their specific address. Things like internet, electric, gas, you name it, they pick what they need, they set everything up, and it's all in one place.

No Googling, no back and forth with landlords saying, hey, who's the electric company here again? Never heard that one. And for property managers, it's white labeled, so it feels like part of your own onboarding process. You get notified once your tenants' utilities are set up. It's one less thing for you to follow up on on your probably never-ending list of things to follow up on. It's completely free for everyone. There's no contracts and it takes only minutes to get started. So check out

Utility Profit because movement day should feel like a win, not a checklist nightmare with a big pest. Perfect. All right. Thanks to Utility Profit for sponsoring today's episode. All right. And check them out at DorGro Live. That's coming up in October. Yeah. In Austin, the ninth and tenth. So if you're interested in checking out Utility Profit, you can just do a quick search. They should come right up, Utility Profit, or you can see them at

Dorboro Live. Okay. So getting back to what we were just chatting about, Venn diagram, you, the business, we need to shift the attention to you. We have to make sure every new hire is taking something off of your plate because you are doing everything in the business in the beginning. And so if you do a time study, you'll be able to see where am I investing time? What is that time worth financially? Where is my focus currently? Is this helping me reach my goals?

And then we look through a lens for the business, which is the six core functions, which is lead gen, nurture, conversion, delivery, lifetime value, and financial. And so then we're looking what does the business need most? So what does the business need most and what do you need most? And the overlap is where you make your best decisions. So every team member should be born out of a time study.

Basically, when we have our clients do a time study, one of the big factors is energy. It's like, is this a plus sign for you or a minus sign? Does it give you life or energy, or is it taking it away? And if it is a minus sign, we need to find somebody that this would be a plus sign for them and bring them in. And so you're able to give your minus signs to somebody else that enjoys doing it. And this is how we free you up from the business and how we make sure we're hiring somebody that makes sense. And this person

should be helping the business improve your cash flow situation, which means if you're the revenue generator, you're the salesperson or you are your own BDM, that means we're freeing up your time doing minus signs that are also financially draining and getting you to spend time doing revenue generating activities. And that's a really awesome trade. You're basically trading and giving up a little bit of money to go be able to make more money.

And then it's a smart decision to make because that's what the business maybe needs as well, is more lead gen, more nurture, conversion. Those first three functions are sales. So this is how we make the decision to hire. So every new hire, I think, should be born out of a time study. Every new tech or new system you roll out should be born out of a time study. Because otherwise you're just adding expense, you're just adding stuff, you're just adding people, and it's not actually giving you more fulfillment, more freedom, more contribution.

More support. And this is the point of having a business is you should get more of what I call the four reasons:

Usually the first person that we recommend that people hire is what? An assistant. Which is wild because a lot of times we'll see a business owner with an entire team and what don't they have? An assistant. And sometimes they'll even have team members. Yeah and he doesn't have an assistant. And I went, Ew, why? What's what's really funny is a lot of times as business owners, because we're hiring and getting what the business needs and not taking care of ourselves.

We will even see team members that have assistance. we have a property manager and an assistant property manager. And yet the business owner is still involved in a lot of things and doing really low level financially ineffective tasks that are like low level, that your time probably as a business owner should be calculated based on what the top line revenue of the company is, divided by like 40 hours a week, divided by, you know.

50 weeks in the year. So basically divide it by 2000, your your annual revenue. That's what your hourly rate should be sort of judged by. And so, you know, if you're a million-dollar business owner, your hourly rate is like probably like 500 bucks an hour or something like this. And you might as well just double it, just for perspective. But you the goal is to get you to a place where you are worth that amount of money. And you're not doing five dollar an hour tasks that maybe or even less that maybe AI could do.

Maybe $10 an hour tasks that a good VA in a foreign country could do that's really seasoned. Maybe $20, $25 an hour tasks that a decent US-based team member could do. And so you want to make sure that you are doing stuff that makes sense for your business. Otherwise, you are losing money.

it's it's hard to argue when you go, Well, you're spending 70% of your time doing tasks that cost twenty dollars or less. And then they go, it's kind of hard to argue with that. Then it starts to become very, very clear that yeah, we need to make some shifts in the business. Yeah. If if I ever hear hear a business owner and I ask, Who's your main salesperson? Who does the business development? And they're like, That's me.

Cool, what are you spending most of your time doing? If they don't say that thing, there's a problem. Because sales is the lifeblood of the business. They're like, I want to grow. Cool. Who's your salesperson? Me. Cool. What are you spending your time doing? Maintenance, coordination, leasing, inspections, well, like posting notices. Cool. So if you're great at doing sales or you have a team member that's great at doing sales, your whole job is to free up that person's time. If it's you, free up your time.

To allow you to spend more time doing sales. Otherwise, that's kinda like buying a Ferrari, paying for it, and then you're using it to plow a field, as I usually say. That does not make sense. It doesn't make sense at all. Literally does not make financial sense.

All right. Cool. So that's today's episode. So if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant and you want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at doorgo.com for a free training on how to get unlimited free leads. Text the word leads to 512-648-4608.

Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners by going to doorgrowclub.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas to learn about DoorGro's offers, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on wherever you saw this. We'd really appreciate it. Until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

AI is everywhere, but are property management companies asking the right questions before implementing it? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, Jason Hull sits down with Mo Hussain to discuss why successful AI adoption has far less to do with technology and far more to do with operational clarity. Instead of chasing the latest AI tools, Mo introduces his Measure, Map, Automate framework to identify operational bottlenecks, uncover hidden profit leaks, and build workflows that actually improve business performance.

Together, they explore why clean data is the foundation of automation, how undocumented processes create costly inefficiencies, and why AI should enhance human decision-making rather than replace it.

You'll Learn

[00:00] Meet Mo Hussain and the Measure, Map, Automate Framework [03:20] Why Most Companies Ask the Wrong AI Questions [08:10] The Role of Clean Data in AI Success [12:45] Mapping Workflows Before Automating Them [15:30] The Process Myth and Better Operational Systems [21:10] Building Accountability Into AI Workflows [25:15] Designing AI Agents That Actually Perform [27:45] Turning Operational Data Into Business Growth [29:15] Final Advice for Property Management Leaders

Quotables

"AI value really truly is workflow value." Mo Hussain

"AI depends on trusted operational data." Mo Hussain

"The winners are not gonna be the companies that have the most amount of data, but they're the ones that can convert data into consistent operating actions." Mo Hussain

Resources

DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind

DoorGrow Academy

DoorGrow on YouTube

DoorGrowClub

DoorGrowLive

Transcript

Jason Hull (00:00)

welcome everybody. I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry.

At DoorGro, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. And my guest today is Mo Hussain, and we're going to be talking about how property management companies can stop drowning in data and start turning it into real operational growth. In this episode,

Mo is breaking down the measure, map, and automate framework that he has built and approach an approach to uncovering hidden margins, reducing manual oversight, and getting more value out of every door in your portfolio.

right.

is Mo Hussain. Mo, welcome to the show.

Mo Hussein (01:01)

Hey Jason, happy to be here.

Jason Hull (01:03)

So today we're going to be chatting a little bit about how property management companies can stop drowning in data and start turning it into real operational growth. And Mo's going to break down the measure, map, and automate framework, his approach for uncovering hidden margins, reducing manual oversight, and getting more value out of every door in your portfolio. So cool, measuring is important. We'll get into that. So before we get into that, Mo,

Can you give people a little bit of background on yourself? How did you get into entrepreneurism? How did you get connected to property management? And help everybody understand who Mo is. Yeah.

Mo Hussein (01:42)

Yeah.

great question. So I I've been in this industry now for probably coming up on 20 years at this point. I I worked at some of the prop tech and software providers that are prevalent in the space. Namely, I worked at both YARTI App Folio, which are both kind of headquartered in in Santa Barbara. and a little bit over ten years ago, I started a consultancy and accounting CPA practice that specifically focuses on

Jason Hull (01:56)

Namely, I worked at both YARDIE and at Folio, which are both kind of headquartered in in Santa Barbara. a little bit over ten years ago, I started a consultancy and accounting TPA practice that specifically focuses

on prop tech and real estate. So we offer consultations with implementations, custom reporting, operationalizing around technology, which is which is now the buzz around kind of AI and automation at this point.

Mo Hussein (02:11)

Prop tech and real estate. So we offer consultations with implementations, custom reporting, operationalizing around technology, which is which is now the buzz around kind of AI and automation at this point. and then

we've also built products for the space to help with automations, help with you know accounting compliance and bringing visibility and custom reporting capabilities to operators. So kind of leveraging all the experience.

Jason Hull (02:25)

And then we've also built products for the space to help with automations, help with you know, accounting compliance and bringing visibility and custom reporting capabilities to operators. So kind of leveraging all the experience

Mo Hussein (02:40)

from working as a consultant and also as an accountant and even working as some of these tech providers now being a actual supplier in the industry.

Jason Hull (02:41)

from working as a consultant and also as an accountant and even working as some of these tech providers now being a aqua supplier in the industry. Very cool. Very cool. So you're a little bit nerdy.

Mo Hussein (02:52)

A little bit. Data. I love data. Right.

Jason Hull (02:53)

Okay, so am I. So am I. All right. So

cool. So let's talk nerdy to me, Mo. All right. So let's let's chat about this. So let's get into it. So t tell us about this. Wha why is this wh how'd you come up with this framework? Why is this important? I love frameworks because frameworks are usually where we take something that we notice a pattern in, there's some complexity involved, and we make it simple. So explain to us.

Mo Hussein (02:59)

Yeah.

Jason Hull (03:18)

Where does the measure map and automate framework kind of come from?

Mo Hussein (03:22)

Right, right. And this is this kind of stems from a conversation you probably have with plenty of your your clients and even prospects when you start engaging, you know, the the the very popular question now of how do we use AI? I want to streamline and automate. And it's a very loaded, it's a very loaded, fairly ambiguous question, right? How do we use AI? We want to implement AI into our operations, right?

Jason Hull (03:23)

And this is this kind of stems from a conversation you probably have with plenty of your

You know, the the the the very popular question now, how do we use AI? It's a very loaded, fairly ambiguous question, right? How do we use AI? We want to implement AI more.

Mo Hussein (03:48)

when conversely, like you know, operators and property managers should be starting with a different qu set of questions, right? Like how like where are we losing things like NOI, margin, time, control, or even consistency, right? AI really only matters when it connects and automation really only matters when it connects to a to a revenue lever or some type of a cost lever or productivity gain or or risk reduction, right?

Jason Hull (03:50)

Conversely, like you know, operators, property managers should be starting with a different set of questions, right? Like how like where are we losing things like NOI, margin, time, control, or even consistency, right? AI really only matters when it connects in automation really only matters when it connects to a to a revenue lever or some type of a cost lever, productivity gain or or risk reduction,

right? Yeah. there's there's a couple

Mo Hussein (04:14)

and there's there's a couple of key components

Jason Hull (04:16)

key components in even conversations that you've probably even had with with property managers today is that firstly like you know operators today they already have a lot of data. They probably have access to a lot of different data sets across, you know, operations, but it's probably, you know, disconnected and disjointed and different reports and disconnected systems, hidden in spreadsheets and and dashboards that probably don't drive much much action, right? and everybody wants

Mo Hussein (04:17)

in even conversations that you've probably even had with with property managers today is that firstly, like, you know, operators today, they already have a lot of data. They probably have access to a lot of different data sets across, you know, operations, but it's probably, you know, disconnected and disjointed and different reports and disconnected systems hidden in spreadsheets and and dashboards that probably don't drive much much action, right? and everybody wants to

Jason Hull (04:43)

to automate and execute

Mo Hussein (04:43)

automate and execute an

operational kind of workflow. But the hard part is not whether, you know, AI can really do something, but the hard part is whether a company even knows where value is leaking and who owns that action and and whether these workflows are even clear enough to to be able to automate. And that's kind of the premise of this framework is to kind of measure what that pain is, you know, map that workflow, automate that repetitive work and manage

Jason Hull (04:45)

an operational kind of workflow. The hard part is not whether you know AI can really do something, but the hard part is whether a a company even knows where value is leaking and who owns that action and and whether these workflows are even clear enough to to be able to automate. And that's kind of the premise of this framework is to kind of measure what that pain is, you know, map that workflow, automate that repetitive work, and

manage ideally performance through some type of closed loop accountability. We just put an actual word to it, right? A framework to it, I'm sure

Mo Hussein (05:07)

ideally performance through some type of a closed loop accountability. We just put an actual word to it and a framework to it, but I'm sure very

similarly to the conversations that you're probably having also even with customers.

Jason Hull (05:15)

Very similarly to the conversations that you're probably having also with customers.

Yeah, yeah, got it. Yeah. it's interesting because we're now seeing a lot of these tech companies or tech forward companies that are kind of backtracking on AI a little bit. They were giving out basically blank checks to use AI as much as they could. Some were even creating sort of a contest internally, incentivizing like who could use the most tokens.

Mo Hussein (05:29)

Mm.

Right.

You're right.

Jason Hull (05:41)

Which is a little bit insane

to just give people a blank check as if that always the more tokens you burn, the more productivity is being created, right?

Mo Hussein (05:51)

Right, right, right. And we're seeing, yeah, and you know, as we're seeing these newer models that are coming out, whether it's, you know, through Cloud, Anthropic or even these other these other LLMs, the token utilization is becoming more and more expensive, especially with these newer models. And so now the question of just like, hey, how is that utilization actually translating to actual business value? Right. And this was a question that eventually would have been would have been pushed, right?

Jason Hull (05:54)

Yeah and you know.

Of just like, hey, how's that utilization actually translating to actual business value? Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Like how to use AI. Yeah. Bad question. A better question is how do we actually make sure we're creating more profit? How do we actually make sure we are lowering costs? Like

And that's the the idea, they think, well, AI must be so much cheaper than people. And what's interesting, I've also seen some reports lately showing the amount of money these different LLMs are losing right now. They're spending a massive amount of money to deliver AI to us at a super cheap price right now. And but they're losing money. Every time we're chatting, they're losing money.

Mo Hussein (06:47)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Right.

Jason Hull (07:01)

And that's that's a wild business model. They're obviously hoping to win some sort of AI race. They're hoping to get us maybe in the future. And there's a lot of talk lately as well of people thinking we gotta shift to local models. Like we gotta I gotta run this AI stuff on my own computer and not be giving all my money to anthropic or open AI you know, open AI or whatever. So okay.

Mo Hussein (07:15)

Mm-hmm.

Right, right.

Right.

Jason Hull (07:26)

Cool. So let's continue on. Me measure, map and automate. Yeah. Yeah.

Mo Hussein (07:29)

Yeah. Yeah. And

by the way, going on your point, Jason, it's you know, you you also, you know, creating automation and leveraging these models locally, it there's definitely value in that. But you know, now more than ever, f you know, teams are kind of distributed, right? And so ideally, if you've built automations and leveraging these L LMs and

Jason Hull (07:35)

Yeah, y you also you know

Locally it is definitely that

Teams are kind of distributed, right? Yeah. Ideally, if you've built automations and leveraging these LLMs

and

Mo Hussein (07:52)

And things of that sort.

You probably want to have like some type of an interface that's like cloud based, right? Or for folks to be able to kind of collaborate in some type of a ideally like a safe environment, right? and so measure, map and and automate. So you know, there's there's kind of those three components to be able to actually fully ideally leverage leverage AI. But

Jason Hull (07:55)

some type of a an interface that's like cloud based, right? Or for folks to be able to kind of collaborate in some type of a ideally like a safe environment, right? yeah. So measure, map and and automate. So you know there's there's kind of those three components to be able to actually fully ideally leverage leverage AI but

there's there's a couple like kind of key core components that feel like

Mo Hussein (08:20)

There's there's a couple of like kind of key core components that I feel like

is very important for folks to to really understand before they can they they can even take advantage of of AI, right? so one is you know AI, AI value really truly is workflow value. And so like the most the biggest opportunities when it comes to automation leveraging AI is things that are repetitive.

Jason Hull (08:25)

is very important for folks to to really understand before they can they they can take advantage of of AI, right? so one is, you know, a AI AI value really truly is a workflow value. And so like the most

automation leveraging AI as things that are

repetitive, you know, judgment heavy, ideally high volume workflows. Think about things like you know, leasing follow-up, delinquency, turns, maintenance, triage, variance explanations. another another key thing to understand is you know AI depends on trusted ideal operational data. And so if you don't have accurate or clean property unit, resident, vendor,

Mo Hussein (08:44)

you know, judgment heavy, ideally high volume workflows. Think about things like you know, leasing follow-up, d delinquency, terms, maintenance triage, variance explanations. another another key thing to understand is, you know, AI depends on trusted ideally operational data. And so if you don't have accurate or clean property unit, resident vendor

payment data and it's and it's inconsistent, you know, AI just

Jason Hull (09:10)

payment data and it's and it's inconsistent, you know,

AI just helps accelerate the wrong answer, right? This notion of like hallucinations also kind of exist. and you know insights without ownership is is just is really just theater. And so although AI may identify a problem and recommend an action, things need to be routed, right? And asci you know action needs to be assigned, there needs to be some accountability that gets created there and then a measurement of of of

Mo Hussein (09:13)

helps accelerate r the wrong answer, right? And the this notion of like hallucinations also kind of exist. and you know insights without ownership is is just is really just theater. And so although AI may identify a problem and recommend an action, things need to be routed, right? And as I you know action needs to be assigned. There needs to be some accountability that gets created there and then a measurement of of of a

of of a of a result.

Jason Hull (09:40)

of of a of a

result. and then lastly like humans humans control still matters, right? Things that have a very high potential opportunity cost. you know, operators should be very careful on how they utilize AI. So, you know, things around fair housing, sensitive sensitive decisions like screenings, evictions, legal communication, you know, employee decisions and maybe even large payment loopholes and so

Mo Hussein (09:42)

and then lastly like humans, humans control still matters, right? Things that have a very high potential opportunity cost. you know, operators should be very careful on how they utilize AI. So, you know, things around fair housing, sensitive sensitive decisions like screenings, evictions, legal communication, you know, employee decisions and maybe even large payment approvals. And so

Once we

have these kind of these table stake table stake items, if you will, kind of address, then you know we can move on to kind of you know the our framework of kind of measure, map, and automate. And so in each of these different components have different purposes, you know. The whole point of the measure step is is to quantify where pain exists and to validate kind of being buying versus buy like building. And so you want to ask things like where

Jason Hull (10:09)

Once we have these kind of these table stakes stakeheads, if you will, kind of addressed, then you know, we can move on to kind of, you know, the our framework of kind of measure, map, and automate. And so and each of these different components have different purposes, you know. The whole point of the measure step is is to quantify where pain exists and to validate kind of being buying versus buy like building. And so you want to ask things

like where

Mo Hussein (10:36)

where

time, where margin, where service quality or accountability is lost today, right? Examples can be things like, you know, days vacant, you know, delinquency rate, maintenance response times. These would be kind of like outputs like invoice coding time, reporting hours, renewal conversions, right?

Jason Hull (10:37)

Where time, where margin, where service quality or accountability is lost today, right? Examples can be things like, you know, days vacant, you know, delinquency rate, maintenance response times. These would be kind of like outputs like invoice coding time, reporting hours, renewal conversions, right?

Yeah. Got it. Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense. So you've got to be you have to have good data.

Which the crux of th where their data is all probably housed is inside of their property management software.

Mo Hussein (11:06)

Right.

Jason Hull (11:07)

And so hopefully that software is kinda tracking some of this stuff. But, you know, everybody's had a CRM that the team didn't put enough notes in. And then it becomes kind of useless, right? So you're like, what happened with Fred on that call earlier, you know, or previously? I I think I think we talked about this. Can't remember. Why aren't you putting in notes? And so then the flaw becomes the human in the loop in a lot of instances. But then you're saying, you know, also humans matter. Like

Mo Hussein (11:14)

Right.

Right.

Jason Hull (11:34)

Related to fair housing. We've got to have the human in the loop making decisions. I don't think it would go fair very well to be standing in front of a judge and say, Well, the AI messed this up. It wasn't me.

Mo Hussein (11:43)

Right. Right.

Right. Yeah, that's very that's very correct. the the the other thing is is that you know software is a tool, right? So they you know, for like that example that you just gave of like, hey, you know, I had a conversation with Freddie or an owner or what have you, and you know, the notes weren't captured. And so if there's if if if if there's there needs to be also a cultural

Jason Hull (11:46)

Yeah, that's very that's very

Yeah, they you know, put like that example that you just gave of like, Hey, you know, I had a conversation

And you know, the notes weren't captured. And so if there's if if if if there's there needs to be also

Mo Hussein (12:06)

shift within the organization to become more performance kind of driven, right? And using, you know, places of truth. You know, I, you know, we use Salesforce in our own internal kind of CRM and you know, there's this old ad like this old saying of just, you know, hey, if it didn't happen to Salesforce, it didn't happen at all. In other words, if your system of record hasn't been updated and things haven't been added to it

Jason Hull (12:06)

cultural shift within the organization to become more performance kind of driven, right? And using, you know, places of truth. You know, I you know, we use Salesforce in our own internal kind of CRM and you know, there's this this old like this old thing of just, you know, hey, if it didn't happen in Salesforce, it didn't happen at all. Right.

Mo Hussein (12:29)

to to ensure that it is correct and accurate and up to date, then

Jason Hull (12:29)

to it to to ensure that it is correct and accurate and up

to date, then the organization sees it as, you know, as it didn't happen. And somebody, you know, using anecdotal feedback like, well I did this, but I just didn't update this. And so that's it's very important that, you know, whatever system you're using to kind of measure different KPIs and metrics, that that, you know, that behaviors within the organization are shifting towards that. And it's it's something it's a cultural shift that needs to also

Mo Hussein (12:32)

the organization sees it as you know as it didn't happen. And somebody, you know, using anecdotal feedback of like, well I did this, but I just didn't update this, it means it didn't happen. And so that's it's very important that, you know, whatever system you're using to kind of measure different KPIs and metrics, that that, you know, that behaviors within the organization are shifting towards that. And it's it's some it's a cultural shift that needs to also cascade

also from from leadership down as well.

Jason Hull (12:57)

Cascade also from leadership down.

Yeah, the advantage we have nowadays with all the AI stuff that's come out is now pretty much everything gets transcribed everywhere. So calls get transcribed, notes can be created automatically. You can also go back and ha check the transcription on a call or a zoom call or recording, figure out what happened. So that you know, not leaving notes in the CRM is a little bit less of a problem than it was in the past.

So we've so we've chatted a bit about measure. What is what's important about mapping or map? Yeah. So this is this goes back to my previous point about like you know AI value being it it is workflow value. Yeah so you know you've measured you've identified you know your measurements and KPIs. So whatever those KPIs may be. Next what you need to do is map what the actual

Mo Hussein (13:30)

The mapping. Yeah. So this is this goes back to my previous point about like, you know, AI value being it is workflow value. And so, you know, you've measured, you've identified, you know, your measurements and KPIs, you know, days vacant, delinquency, whatever those KPIs may be. Next, what you need to do is map what the actual what

the actual workflows that are happening, not how leadership or staff thinks it's happening.

Jason Hull (13:53)

what the actual workflows are happening, not how leadership or staff thinks it's

happening. There's a very key kind of a distinction is that, you know, a lot of operators and teams kind of assume, hey, you know, we have a set process, but it may not be happening the way that they are envisioning or the way that they're assuming that this is happening. Yeah. And and map that entire workflow end to end.

Mo Hussein (13:59)

The very key kind of distinction is that, you know, a lot of operators and teams kind of assume, hey, you know, we have a set process, but it may not be happening the way that they are envisioning or the way that they're assuming that this is happening. And and map that entire workflow end to end.

identify what systems are involved, where handoffs occur, where approvals are required.

Jason Hull (14:21)

identify what systems are involved, where handoffs occur, where approvals are required,

Mo Hussein (14:27)

where judgment calls are are are are kind of made. And so, you know, every company has, you know, things like experienced managers and accountants and maintenance folks and and they usually know what good looks like versus what bad looks like. And so AI here is to help kind of convert that tribal knowledge ideally into a repeatable operating model. And so examples of how that mapping

Jason Hull (14:28)

where judgment calls are kind of made. And so every company has you know things like experienced managers and accountants and maintenance folks, and and they usually know what good looks like versus what bad looks like. And so AI here helped kind of convert that tribal knowledge ideally into an overviewable operative model. So examples of

that mapping would be is you know, hey, what is the entire need to lease workflow?

Mo Hussein (14:50)

would be is, you know, hey, what is the entire lead to lease workflow? You know,

Jason Hull (14:54)

You know, what is the work order to completion, you know? what is our renewal offer to sign and executed actual renewal? And so and actually and again documenting that, a a lot of organizations have some notion of what that workflow kinda looks like. but

Mo Hussein (14:54)

What is the work order to completion? You know? what is our renewal offer to signed and executed actual renewal? And so and actually, and again, documenting that. A a lot of organizations have some notion of what that workflow kind of looks like. but you know, they

haven't actually done they may not have documented, or if they did, it's not updated and they have an out of date SOP or a process diagram.

Jason Hull (15:12)

you know, they haven't actually gotten any INOT documents in or if they did, it's not updated and they have an out of data so P or a process diagram.

Mo Hussein (15:22)

And that's that's and that's that's that's a very important kind of key aspect of kind of this process.

Jason Hull (15:22)

and that's that's and that's that's that's a very important kind of key aspect of kind of this process. Yeah, yeah. Well I a lot of times I end up talking with clients and I've noticed kind of this pattern or trend in the industry of I call it the process myth where everybody thinks if we just had better processes

all of our hopes and dreams would come true when it comes to the off side of the business and we would be more profitable. And especially see this in the two to four hundred door range in single family or small multi-residential property management. And so the challenge there is th that it's impossible to create enough processes, KPIs, and systems to make mediocre people be great. But they pe that doesn't stop business owners from trying. They they're like

Mo Hussein (15:59)

Right.

Right.

Jason Hull (16:04)

They they they wake up in the morning, they're like, I want to play an impossible game today. And they they still try. And I call it the process myth because if you have really great people, even if your processes are garbage, that I've seen these businesses still perform well. But the reverse is not true. You have mediocre people, you could have insane amounts of systems and processes and stuff, and the business still has a lot of headaches and problems.

Mo Hussein (16:16)

Mm-hmm.

Jason Hull (16:29)

And so I've kind of noticed this pattern. I call it the three levels of process. And level one is documentation. It's just like writing stuff out. But that's kind of like the owner's manual in the glove box of the car. Nobody looks at it, it doesn't get updated. You know, it's like it's it's it's gathering dust, and people don't actually, that's not actually how the processes are run. And over time, things gravitate towards ease or grace or what the flows best for the person doing the job.

Mo Hussein (16:39)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Jason Hull (16:57)

Not for what's best for the job sometimes. And so it gravitates a little bit towards chaos or being worse. Then there's this level two, which is checklists. This is where people are using things like Asana or Process Street or Lead Simple or they some sort of checklist space system where now they're verifying the works getting done in a certain way. But checklist has its own problems in that it's very linear and not every process is linear.

Mo Hussein (16:59)

Right, right.

Read simple. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Hull (17:24)

There's decisions

and splits and merges and sting things happening concurrently in property management. And so the challenge with checklist also it can tend to slow things down. It's not as efficient. So the next level and the problem I had with checklist, we used to use process street, is that it it if anytime a process got complicated, I had to build logic and you know, if-then sort of situations into it.

And it usually got to the point where I didn't even understand it. Like a year later, I'm looking at a process. I'm like, I had to retranslate this back into something that made sense to my brain. And I always, and the nerd had to be the one that did all the updates on it because nobody else could understand it. So then we eventually graduated to level three. So level three is visual workflow. This is for humans.

Mo Hussein (18:01)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Hull (18:13)

And so, and with with this, my tip to everybody listening, if you have a system, whether it's checklist or it's any of these three levels, you know, documentation, checklist, or visual workflow, that you your first two processes you make as an operator or as a business owner is how to create a process in this system is number one. And number two, how to QA.

Mo Hussein (18:26)

Did

Jason Hull (18:37)

A process that is made in the system to know it's actually a good one. If you just make those two, you don't have to do any of the other stuff. Everybody else can do it. You just make those two. That's my tip for all you business owners. And now with AI, you can start adding AI. Once you have things visually mapped out, it's you've got the map like you're talking about. Now you can figure out all right, where can AI take over some of this stuff? And where do we still need the human in the loop? Right. So yeah.

Mo Hussein (18:43)

Mm.

And automation. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yeah.

Right,

Jason Hull (19:05)

So any tips for those listening to this that are already geeking out with AI, they're doing a little bit of this measuring and mapping and automating. What are some of the biggest challenges you've noticed where this kind of breaks down or people are making mistakes?

Mo Hussein (19:19)

It's it's honestly it's the it's the you know, AI value. it's it's a lot of the small individual decisions that are made in a in a repetitive fashion and that that are made a lot that really are gonna unlock like true value for for any operator. And so like, you know, having very clean data, standardized, you know, systems of truth by what we mean by that is that, you know, hey, you know.

Jason Hull (19:20)

It's it's honestly it's the it's the you know, AI value it's it's

like true value for for any op

clean data, standardized, you know, systems of truth. But what we mean by that is that, you know, hey,

you know, you know, whatever work order system that you're using, for example, has accurate, you know, work order data. People, you know, you're making a segment for actually closing out the work order when they complete it. Hey, the end of the week, I'm gonna now try to remember what I did earlier in the week.

Mo Hussein (19:47)

you know, whatever work order systems that you're using, for example, has accurate, you know, work order data. People, you know, your maintenance technicians are actually closing out the work order when they complete it. Not just, hey, the end the week, I'm gonna now try to remember what I did earlier in the week.

Close it out. So the data is

the data can't be trusted, then AI is just going

Jason Hull (20:04)

data the be trusted and AI

Mo Hussein (20:07)

to cause additional kind of confusion. And so having accurate systems of record. And I gave that example of of of a work order when a technician kind of closes that, right? the process map, I think the you know, the three buckets are like three level that you kind of gave, I think is a great, great.

Jason Hull (20:20)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

yeah.

level that you kinda gave I think it's a great,

great anecdote and framing of how processes should be kind of looked at. And and I think one thing that a lot of operators usually tend to overlook or assume is you know how things are being done versus how they actually are being done within the schemes, right? So an owner somebody at some point said, okay hey this is a process we're gonna take and then over time that just kind of got changed.

Mo Hussein (20:29)

anecdote and framing of how processes should be kind of looked at. And and I think one thing that a lot of operators usually tend to overlook or assume is you know how things are being done versus how they actually are being done within the teams, right? It's an owner, somebody at some point said, okay, hey, this is the process we're gonna take. And then over time that just kind of got changed. And there

may be, you know, two different property managers

Jason Hull (20:55)

And there may be, you know, two different property managers

Mo Hussein (20:58)

operating in two different regions in the same company that are doing leasing renewal differently, right? That going back to that point that you mentioned about systematizing and having accountability loops and task base or like checklist items and ensuring that those things are actually done in that same quality and that same fashion is very, very key. And so getting data, like getting the right data, accurate data,

Jason Hull (20:58)

operating in two different regions in the same company that are doing these things renewal differently. Right. That point that you mentioned about synthesizing and having accountability loops and task based or like checklist items and ensuring that those things are actually done in that same quality, in that same fashion is very, very key. And so getting data, getting the right data, accurate data

Mo Hussein (21:23)

and then also like your process mapping and your

Jason Hull (21:24)

And then also like your process mapping

and your processes kind of documented. I think I think the visual representation is a great way to have that. And those are the two key things that ninety percent of folks that are trying to leverage AI and automation and even the folks that are starting to try to jump into this space and try to automate and use AI for these things like usually we're like where where they're really struggling with. got it. Yeah, I think

Mo Hussein (21:26)

processes kind of documented. I think I think the visual representation is a great way to have that. Those are the two key things that ninety percent of folks that are trying to leverage AI and automation and even the folks that are starting to try to jump into this space and trying to automate and use AI for these things like usually we're like we're where they're really struggling with.

Jason Hull (21:50)

I was just on a webinar recently and they were talking about building AI agents and they were talking about if you want to make really effective AI agents, you need to give them a really good job description, just like a human. And what what's really funny is if you we coach clients on this a lot, but if we tell the clients to to go, we coach clients on

Creating job descriptions. We call our version of them R docs because each section starts with an R, like role, responsibility, et cetera, all the typical stuff. But then we have some additional sections that we found really paramount. So what we'll tell them to do is go ask your team members, give them this framework, and have them create their own R Doc. And then you take a look at this and see if that's what you would have created. Because it's never like what they think their job is. It's usually very different than what the business owner thinks their job is.

Mo Hussein (22:25)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jason Hull (22:36)

And maybe even different what the manager, the ops person thinks the job is, but then you can actually literally get on the same page with them. You can be like negotiate this and be like, this is what we think your priorities should be, and what your outcomes should be, and what we want you to be able to accomplish. And this is helpful for them to know what they're aiming for so that they can please you because your team members want to please you if they're good. But usually there's a big disconnect, like you're saying, between what

Mo Hussein (23:00)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jason Hull (23:05)

the the employee thinks their j role and job is versus what their manager thinks they should be doing versus what the business owner thinks everybody should be doing. And so nobody's on the same page. And then you're everybody's roles are a little messy. And then you're going, let's give them processes now to work on. And they're not even clear on what their job is or what their role is. Yeah. And so same thing if you were going to build an AI agent and you were like, I want you to try and be good at everything. And then suddenly it's like really

Mo Hussein (23:29)

Right.

Jason Hull (23:34)

Hallucinating a lot and it's messing everything up and yeah. And it's not a realistic creature, you know, just like some people give create job descriptions that are for like four different personality types. Right. And then they hire somebody that maybe can actually do all four things, and we call those really highly adaptable, weird creatures entrepreneurs. And then they wonder why that property manager left and stole all their clients.

Mo Hussein (23:34)

Horrible.

Right.

Yeah.

Jason Hull (23:57)

Instead of finding somebody that's like really good at being one thing. Right. Yeah. And that's how you should see Asia.

Mo Hussein (24:00)

Right. That that that that role clarity is very, very, very important, right? And that's how you should see agents as well, is that

like, hey, it's like a trained employee. And so you should exp you should expect the same level of, you know, investment involvement, if you will, and trying to and try to help them be the best of like, you know, whether it's a leasing agent, a maintenance coordinator, or whatever that their role may be. And I I think another aspect is and I'm curious how like how

Jason Hull (24:12)

you should expect the same level of you know investment involvement if you will and trying to and try to help them be the best of like you know whether it's a leasing agent a maintenance coordinator or whatever that their role may be and I I think another aspect is and I'm curious that

like how you know when you guys are having conversations with clients around role descriptions stuff it's the concept of ownership like hey what you know how to how to align ownership to and lining that up to hopefully the mental business

Mo Hussein (24:28)

you know, when you guys having conversations with clients around role descriptions and stuff, it's the concept of ownership. Like, hey, what, you know, how to how to align ownership to and lining that up to hopefully an eventual business outcome or KPI

or something so that, you know, their performance drives also the business performance, right? How have you guys had this conversation or how do you talk about kind of that concept? I can kind of allude to it without kind of explicitly calling it out.

Jason Hull (24:42)

Kate guy or something so that you know their performance derives also the business performance, right? Yeah. How do you talk about kind of that concept? You kind of allude to it without kind of explicitly calling

it out. Yeah, I think well, sometimes I'll just totally call a business owner out on things. But I think what I think will be interesting is people are building starting to build agents. I think that they should.

They should have an understanding of personality types. I think they should have an understanding maybe or a conversation with AI about what Myers Briggs type might be good for this agentic role. And because like somebody that's really good at like strategy and the strategist role, which would be like an INTJ in Myers Briggs, might be good at some operational stuff, but they would be really terrible at customer service.

Mo Hussein (25:19)

Mm-hmm.

Jason Hull (25:33)

Because a lot of INTJs don't even like humans, right? And so they're logical thinkers and they're really judging and they're practical and they're in you know introverted and they're really bad at understanding how the other person feels or even expressing that. And so you're you you don't want to create these try and create AI AI agents that are multiple split personality types, because I don't think they're gonna be as effective. And you can't also, just like you wouldn't want somebody building the process.

QE QA QA of the process. You don't want them both. You don't want AI to be checking itself. Right. Right. The the brain that had problems doing the messing things up, maybe, or didn't do it totally right. You don't want them checking their own work. Right. And so, yeah, so I think this is going to be interesting that people are going to be building agents and they usually think just logically here's the context it needs, here's the role, whatever. But I think also maybe give it the personality that it.

Mo Hussein (26:08)

Right, right.

Right.

Jason Hull (26:29)

What's the disc assessment for this person, this agent? What's the Myers Briggs type for this agent? And then if especially if they're communicating with humans or doing a task that you want them to be somewhat human like, they're going to be much better at doing this if you give it you create them in the right way. Just an idea.

the other thing to know as a business owner, you need to know who you are so that you can build your dream team around you. So your advisors, whether they're agentic or human, your advisors, your team members, it should be built ultimately around you thriving and being healthy in your own business so that you've got the tea the tools and the resources that fit you. But most business owners make the mistake.

Of trying to build the business around the business and then wonder why they're miserable and why they're kind of a slave to their own business. Right.

Mo Hussein (27:16)

Right. Right. Right.

Jason Hull (27:20)

So anyway, Mo, measure, map, automate, MMA. Doesn't involve fighting too much. You know, like mixed martial arts. It's a little bit on the, you know, less physical side of things. fun chatting about.

Mo Hussein (27:26)

No.

Jason Hull (27:34)

all the the AI stuff that's going. How can people anything else that you want to add to our conversation here about yeah this model? And then could you tell us a little bit about what you do and how maybe you help property managers with this stuff? Yeah. Yeah. so I guess just to put it succinct, kind of a a sandwich kind of takeaway. So yeah, operators need to wait for a perfect AI.

Mo Hussein (27:48)

Yeah. Yeah. so I guess just to put it succinctly, kind of a a a sandwich kind of takeaway. So, yeah, operators don't need to wait for a perfect AI strategy.

Start by identifying, measuring where value exists, where things are leaking, then mapping workflows and then deciding what can be safely automated and measuring whether those actions improve performance. and so

Jason Hull (28:00)

Identifying, measuring where value exists, where things are leaking, then mapping workflows, and then deciding what can be safe and automated, and measuring whether.

Mo Hussein (28:10)

like you know, over time we'll see that you know the winners are not gonna be the companies that have the most amount of most amount of data, but they're the ones that can convert data into consistent operating actions across how they've operated every door. if you we help clients with you know putting together SOPs, also mapping their technology needs, where where they're where they're having operational leaks in the business can be

Jason Hull (28:10)

So like you know over time we'll see that you know the winners are not gonna be the companies that have the most amount of most amount of data, but they're the ones that can convert data into consistent operating actions across how they've operated every door. if you we help clients with you know putting together SOPs, also mapping their technology needs, where where they're where they're having operational leaks and the business

can be optimized.

Mo Hussein (28:37)

Optimized further using

Jason Hull (28:38)

Further using technology and automation, we have a platform that we've built, Prop Strata, to actually connect and help with that automation type effort. and we're also we also do a lot of accounting and and CPA work. you can reach us at www.balanceasset solutions.com, and my emails mo at propstrata.com, or you can reach out to our team at info at balance asset.

Mo Hussein (28:39)

technology and automation. We have a platform that we've built, Prop Strata, to actually connect and and help with that automation kind of efforts. then we're also we also do a lot of accounting and and CPA work. you can reach us at www.balanceasset solutions.com and and then my email is mo at at propstrata.com or you can reach out to our team at info at balanceasset solutions.com.

Jason Hull (29:03)

Cool. So they could take a look at this at propstrata.com.

Mo Hussein (29:07)

Correct. W dot propstrata.com.

Jason Hull (29:11)

Okay, cool. Very cool. All right. yeah, check that out, everybody. It sounds interesting. All right. Well, Mo, I appreciate you coming out and hanging out with me here on the DoorGro show and sharing everything.

All right.

So if

If you have ever felt stuck or stagnant in your property management business and you want to take it to the next level, reach out to us at doorgrow.com. We are the world's best at creating high-growth property management companies in the single-family residential space or the small multi-space. And if for a free training or how to get unlimited leads for free, text the word leads to 512-648-4608. That's 512-648-4608.

Also, join our free community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. And if you want tips, tricks, and ideas to learn about our offers, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on whatever channel you saw or heard this on. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth.

is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

What if the key to building lasting wealth is to pour wisdom? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, Jason Hull reflects on timeless lessons from the Book of Proverbs and explores how wisdom shapes every aspect of business, leadership, and personal growth. Inspired by the legacy of mentor Aaron Stokes, Jason shares why entrepreneurs who focus on learning, serving others, and making wise decisions ultimately build stronger businesses and more fulfilling lives.

You'll Learn

[00:00] Why Jason Started Reading Proverbs [05:02] Stop Chasing Riches, Start Pursuing Wisdom [10:12] Where Real Wisdom Comes From [17:08] Why Business Is Personal Development [23:05] Humility, Service, and Lasting Success [29:18] The Power of Learning From Others [36:04] Why Entrepreneurs Need the Right Room [42:56] Turning Wisdom Into Business Growth

Quotables

"If you're struggling to get riches and you're seeking riches, maybe you need to shift your attention instead to seeking wisdom." Jason Hull

"The marketplace only rewards you if you provide value." Jason Hull

"One of the greatest gifts to yourself is service." Jason Hull

"We attract who we are." Jason Hull

Resources

DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind

DoorGrow Academy

DoorGrow on YouTube

DoorGrowClub

DoorGrowLive

Transcript

Jason Hull (00:00)

All right, what's up, everybody?

I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential, third-party, single-family, small, multi-property management entrepreneurs. Enough adjectives? All right. So for over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry.

At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right, so today's episode: I've been reading the book of Proverbs. Why?

Well, one of my mentors, Aaron Stokes, who I've talked about on the podcast before, who passed recently, he was a gatherer of wisdom. And so I thought, you know what? Aaron built a really amazing coaching business. He built a really amazing empire. It lives on after him. And I I I wanted to s I was thinking what what

Really made him great. Why did people want to listen to him? Why did people resonate with his message? Why did he have such a well of wisdom to be able to give to other people? And my thought was he was focused on gathering wisdom. And this is something that I've done throughout my life: is I love learning. I love studying books, I love absorbing information, I love putting frameworks together, gathering ideas.

taking all the best ideas and formulating new stuff. I love doing that. And my clients appreciate it greatly. So I've been focused, how can I really, at the core, where is the most timeless wisdom that's been gathered over decades, centuries, maybe even longer? And one of those books is the book of Proverbs. So I've started reading the book of Proverbs and that's been interesting for me.

So one of the themes that I'm noticing a lot in this is the theme of trying to get riches. And God must be using riches as a bait if this book talks this much about riches. because he wants to obviously get a message across, would be my guess. And there's a constant theme of talking about riches in this book, even though a lot of it's really talking about wisdom. And so

I've thought I've thought about this as a business owner. We want to gather wealth. We want to make money. We want and we can tell ourselves it's to do good things, right? We want to be able to take care of our family and do all these noble things. But sometimes it's like we just want a nicer car or we want a nice house or this sort of thing. And so there's always this motivation that's hardwired into man to seek wealth or to seek riches.

And we almost have to like destroy that in some way to not have it. well, money's evil, or I don't want money, or we come up with reasons to not be the person looking for money because we think, that's kind of bad, sick, and wrong to be looking for money. I really believe God wants good people to be rich. And that's really what the the book really seems to say over and over again is that for the righteous, they

They they get riches. For the generous, they get riches. For those that gather wis wisdom, they get riches. But what's interesting that I think is important, because if you want money and you want money and I don't care why you want it, if you want money and you think it's going to do something beneficial for your life, you're not going to get money, according to Proverbs, according to this timeless wisdom that's been around a long time, probably tested quite a bit, probably proven to work well.

it's it's helped a lot of people over time gather wealth. It says not to seek riches. It says not to seek it. If you seek riches, you're going to end up in a bad situation, is basically the message. But it says it talks about wisdom as a lady, as a woman. And this lady wisdom, this this woman that is wisdom, it says in her right hand.

Is long life, and in her left hand is honor and riches, riches and honor. And these are the things that Lady Wisdom brings to you if you keep wisdom by your side. And it talks about how wisdom, this feminine energy or this woman wisdom, was with God when He was creating the world, creating everything. Wisdom was by his side.

And so wisdom has existed before this world was even created, is kind of the idea. Wisdom is timeless, is the idea. Wisdom's always been there. It's foundational. It's what drives things to work and drives outcomes. Wisdom is what works in the practical real world reality. I was hanging out with my barber and I was sharing a little bit about, you know, how I've been reading and this idea of wisdom and

And every man out there, I recommend you find a barber like this. Find a the most intelligent barber you can. I just did a reel on Instagram talking about this. find the most intelligent, healthy barber that you can find because barbers.

Have people sit in their chair constantly, especially if they're a higher-end barber.

So if you're sitting there with a barber, the barber is constantly putting people into his seat and gathering ideas, gathering wisdom, gathering knowledge. And this is men opening up, revealing their trials, their problems because he's curious. He asks questions, he genuinely cares, he wants to know how they're doing. And

You know, he might have a millionaire in his chair, like I'm sitting there giving him wisdom and knowledge. And he might have somebody just, you know, from the street that wants a haircut sitting in in his in his suite. But the lessons that he's able to gather through talking to all these various men that are having real-world experience and real world problems and real issues with their marriage and relationships and their kids.

And business and life. He is able to just gather wisdom. And he has a passion, he even mentioned to me for being able to help others and to facilitate and help men. He's in a position to be able to do so because he's seen what's working and what's not working. He's heard, gotten so much anecdotal feedback from everybody of what works and what doesn't work. And this is practical, grounded real world reality. This is wisdom.

This is what we're the foundation where you find truth. This is not the intellectuals that sit in their lofty towers of intellectualism that have all of their BS ideas that theoretics and stuff they've read where they think everything could be or should be a certain way, but it's not actually connected to reality, what actually works in real life. And a lot of these intellectuals hate capitalism. A lot of these intellectuals hate.

They hate business. They hate capitalism. They don't like that the marketplace rewards what actually works. This is also why a lot of these intellectuals are probably not in super great shape. They're probably not really taking care of themselves in certain ways because they're probably physically lazy and they're focusing so much on this intellectualism that they are not focused on what works in the real world. Real world practical reality.

I notice people that I follow like that have been around for a long time, like Alex Hermozy, he has become kind of this gatherer of wisdom because he's been so focused on business. And you become wise if you do what works in business. You cannot lie, cheat, steal, be unethical, be shady, and have longevity in your business or have long life in your business.

It will be short-lived. Death creeps in very quickly into any situation where there isn't wisdom. And so if you find that you're struggling to get riches and you're seeking riches, maybe you need to shift your attention instead to seeking wisdom. And where do you find wisdom? You find it by being around others that are doing what you want to do.

Like our mastermind is full of people that are winning and succeeding. And I've been kind of the barber with lots and lots, hundreds, thousands really, of property managers sitting in my chair, having conversations to figure out what's actually working out there. I've had a lot of guinea pigs to try stuff out.

So even more than just a barber, I'm able to say, well, here's an idea. Go try this. And then when it works, I get that feedback. Now like Jason, that was awesome. That worked. I'm adding doors. This is going well. I've got a great new hire. Whatever you told me to do, this is awesome. And so I'm constantly getting feedback from some of the best, most innovative people I think on the planet, which are entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs are willing to do things, they're willing to take risks, they're willing to take action, they're willing to seek freedom and fulfillment and contribution.

And support over just trying to play it safe and be safe all the time.

There are few things in life that will help you collapse time on gathering wisdom more than getting married.

having kids.

There's a lot of people that don't want to have kids nowadays.

children and marriage, two of the greatest personal development hacks you could undertake. The third, I would suggest, greatest personal development hack that you could do is to start a business. To start a business. Why?

Because if you start a business, you are now faced with the marketplace, the real world reality of everyone outside of yourself that you are trying to serve, that you are maybe trying to get money from, that you are trying to maybe extract value from. And the marketplace only rewards you if you provide value. Then there's an exchange of value. But if you're trying to take value without providing value, you're snake oil.

You know, and I've had thousands, I've made thousands of mistakes. Thousands of mistakes have built what DoorGrow is to this day. I've done so many different things wrong. I always had good intentions. I was always trying to do the right thing. But as business owners, we make mistakes. We have blind spots. We don't see certain things.

And so over the years, I've learned more and more what works. I've learned more and more what I need to do in order to shift people and to shift their identities and to get them to grow. And I want to share this idea with you today

gain and gather wisdom directly from those that you can trust as an authority to say, This is what I know works. And that could be from your barber. That could be from the handyman. That could be from the people that are doing real.

world stuff and they've built things that are working. And it certainly can be from the people that you follow on social media that you subscribe to their podcasts that you like follow on YouTube. It can certainly be the people that you curate that are actually gatherers of wisdom. And your soul knows this. Your soul knows deep down whether what they're offering is good or is true. This is the the

Gift of discernment that we all have wired within us. We all have this ability to recognize good versus evil. Some, it's more honed and developed than others. The more wisdom you have, the more you're able to see what is beneficial and is wisdom and have greater discernment and what is not. And so as you develop and grow in wisdom and gather wisdom, you also become more and more humble.

Because you also realize there's so much you don't know.

My goal is to benefit other people.

I get so much joy and fulfillment out of that. I love being able to do that. That's contribution. I have a certain degree of fulfillment and a certain degree of freedom already. That's fulfillment is the first of the four reasons, as I call it, my framework. Freedom is the second. And once you have fulfillment and freedom, usually then you want to benefit others. That's contribution. And my business gives me an amazing vehicle of contribution. It allows me to go.

Selfishly, like spend a lot of money on coaches and mentors and learning and growth, like six figures annually just on that. I'm incredibly blessed to be able to do that. Most people, that's more than what they make in a year. And I'm able to spend that to learn and absorb information and to grow. And then I have the blessing, the gift to be able to go and share what I learned with other people. I really believe that one of the greatest gifts to yourself is service.

It's being able to serve. Not everybody gets themselves into a position where they get to contribute and they get to serve other people. That's, I think, the ultimate goal because nothing feels better than that. That is better than riches. It is better than riches. Having a client, a client's spouse come up to you and say, Hey, you made my husband a better man. There's that's better than money. It just that feels amazing. Having somebody say, Hey, you changed my life.

That is better than money. And some of you may not get that yet. Maybe you're not there. But I know if you continue, if you continue to seek wisdom and you continue to try and extract money from the marketplace and figure out what works, you're eventually gonna figure out what works is to seek wisdom. You're eventually gonna figure out what works is to benefit humanity and benefit other people. You're gonna eventually figure out integrity and honesty.

And all of these good values that are talked about in scripture, these things are what actually build life, what build life and health in your business, what build money and the support for yourself and for your family. And that wisdom is what helps you be a better father, it helps you be a better partner, it helps you be a better friend, it helps you be a better business owner, it helps you be a better leader.

And so if you're struggling with money, then go gather wisdom. Humble yourself. Recognize that your your biggest breakthroughs are on the other side of that embarrassment of owning up or or raising your hand and saying, I'm struggling. I'm not doing so well right now in this area.

And sometimes even my clients, they don't reach out. They don't ask for help. I had a client that for some reason, even though he's paying me $2,000 a month, wasn't reaching out for five months at a BDM that wasn't working out. The salesperson was, it turns out later, was being dishonest and lying and whatever, but he was blaming himself as a business owner, saying, Maybe I'm not supporting him well enough. And they don't this BDM had only added one door in five months. I'm like, why did you wait that long? Like they should be adding doors immediately.

You can like I have team members, I told them I have team members that we put on accounts just making calls to get clients some leads and they just reached out and made calls and they got leads that day. Like that day. Like you can get leads every day just by picking up the phone. You can create leads. And so a BDM that only has one door in five months, there's something totally wrong.

But the I I what I want to say is

Get a get in the room with other people that care, other people that get get momentum by helping others. That's the type of people that we attract. Why? Because you attract who you are. That's who I am. And so I attract clients that are like that. And if you're attracting clients that you don't like, it's because of who you are and the business you created around who you are. And so you need to gather more wisdom. You need to shift your identity.

We attract who we are.

So, real quick, I want to share a quick word from our sponsor, and then I'll get into some other really cool ideas about wisdom. So this is from our sponsor Super. Really cool tool you can check out at hiresuper.comslash doorgrow. So ring ring, who's there?

Not property managers. Over half don't answer their phones during business hours. Hot leads calling you directly are going straight to missed calls. If you're spending time and money on growth, you need to actually capture it. This is true. That's where Super comes in. Super's AI receptionist sounds lifelike, answers 24/7, and is trained on property management. It even makes follow-up calls and two leads, follow-up calls, two leads.

You might have missed. Go to higher super.com/slash doorgrow and stop missing revenue to missed calls. All right. You don't want to be missing out on those sales, leads, or opportunities. So if you are wanting to gather more wisdom, one channel, shameless plug, is the DoorGrow Mastermind. It is the industry's best mastermind for property management that is focused.

Entirely on growing a business quickly. It's focused on growing the business and making it scalable operationally so you can continue to grow quickly without stopping focusing on growth to fix ops. And so we build the fastest growing businesses and we give you the tools, the engines to collapse time on growth so that you don't have to spend any money on digital marketing, SEO, pay-per-click, content marketing, social media marketing.

pay-per-lead services, any of this stuff in order to grow your business. We help you install growth engines that actually over time make your business grow faster and faster with less and less work. Once an it takes work to build an engine, but once an engine's built, you just put fuel in it and it keeps running and it keeps running. So if you are interested in maybe having a conversation with me or somebody on my team to see if we might be able to help.

You start really getting ahead, growing your business, using wisdom that's been gathered over 17 plus years that have been doing this. Aggressively focused on growing businesses. With a program that is month to month, no contract, because we're so confident in what we do, we are able to keep and retain clients without locking them into some sort of.

contract or agreement for a year like most vendors try to do in this industry because they know they can't get your results quickly or they you're not going to stick around in the long term. It's one or the other. Otherwise they would all do what I'm doing. It's month to month. And we keep clients for years because they get an ROI. And if I can help you just add 10 more units, maybe 20 more units if your margins are bad.

Our program's already paid for. If I can help you, if you have already 100 to 200 units, if I can help you add 10 more dollars of profitability per unit by optimizing your pricing structure or reducing your overhead or your operational costs or staffing costs, which is very easy to do, our program is basically paid for and free to you forever. And then we'll make you more and more money. You are probably spending.

Thousands of dollars a month on team members. Thousands and thousands of dollars a month on team members.

If you consider that hiring DoorGro coming into our mastermind is like getting several of the best property managers available to you, getting me and Sarah, my brilliant operational strategist wife, and myself, brilliant growth-minded entrepreneur, on your team, basically, as fractional helpers to your business.

We're basically the cheapest team member that you'll ever get that will make you the most money that you will ever get. And it's easy no brainer. And usually we can offset the cost of the program just by that first in-person session that you do with each new client, where we have you come out and we onboard clients in person. You come spend a day with Sarah and I in Austin. We can usually find you, find the money for the program so it's already paid for.

Just by helping you eliminate interruptions, eliminate some of the costs in the business, increase your pricing, increase your fee structure, maximize what you're doing there, and several other things that we do. this is this this is how we're able to help clients justify staying in our program, even though it's expensive. And if it's too expensive for you right now, we've created a program called the PM Launchpad that will help you.

To get your first 10 or 20 doors with two of our best growth engines. One's one of the hardest, but it always works. And then another one that's more of a long game that also works to help you get your first 10 or 20 units, and it's only $97 a month to get into the PM launch pad. So that can help you get your first 10 or 20 units.

By doing some hard work. If you want to collapse time and go a lot faster, make a lot more money a lot more quickly, then join our mastermind. But if you can't afford that, I want to be able to help you. We've created a program just for that. So we've also created a program for those that have money and you want to hire a salesperson, but you failed at this before. We will become your salesperson at DoorGroad. This is our program called the Door Machine. This is it, yes, it's expensive, but so is hiring a salesperson. It's basically the same thing.

Except we are your salesperson. And I actually hire, train, support, keep accountable a person in your local market. Maybe even we're considering adding because we're incentivized. The more doors we add, the more DoorGrow makes. It's like a partnership. we're also incentivized to perhaps also get sales setters to feed this BDM. whatever makes this business grow quickly. And so if we're having some success with growing your business in your market.

It's a win-win-win for all three parties, for the salesperson, for DoorGrow, and for you. And if we can make that work, we will throw all of our, all the gasoline at that fire that we can, Sarah and I, because we we all win together. So if any of this sounds interesting, reach out to us at DoorGrow. So let's go ahead and wrap this up. So if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant, you want to take your business to the next level, reach out to us at DoorGrow. We can help.

And for a free training on how to get unlimited leads for free, text the word leads to 512-648-4608. Also join our free Facebook community, just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas to and to learn about our offers, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com/slash subscribe. And if you and I said our Facebook community. We actually were shifting away from Facebook. So now we have our own community.

You can download the app. DoorGrowHub is the app in the app, Apple Place, Apple App Store or the Google Play Store. check that out. And like I was saying, if you want tips, tricks, ideas, learn about our offers, subscribe to our newsletter, go to doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. And I just launched, this is brand new. I just launched my own Substack.

I'm King Jason Hull, H U L L King Jason Hull on every platform that exists. So that's how you can find me on Substack. I just wrote my first article, kind of attacking the PM Trends report and survey in a nice way, helping to add some value to it. There's some great stuff in it. And so go check that out by going to kingjasonhull.substack.com, I believe. And then I'm also getting more and more involved on LinkedIn. And so

Make sure to connect with me on LinkedIn. You'll find me as as King Jason Hull on LinkedIn or just search for Jason Hull and look for my shiny happy face. And until next time, everybody, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

What if the biggest obstacle to growing your property management business isn't your marketing... but who you're attracting? In this #DoorGrowShow episode, Jason Hull breaks down why traditional marketing advice is keeping property managers stuck competing for price-sensitive owners while overlooking a massive untapped market. Drawing from nearly two decades of coaching hundreds of property management entrepreneurs, he explains why warm, relationship-driven growth consistently outperforms cold digital marketing. Jason also explores the hidden operational costs of attracting the wrong clients, why communication isn't the real reason owners leave, how poor boundaries destroy profitability, and why your business should be built around trust.

You'll Learn

[00:00] Why Industry Surveys Miss Real Growth Opportunities [04:58] Understanding Cheapos, Normals, and Premium Buyers [10:43] The Blue Ocean Most Property Managers Ignore [16:40] Why Communication Isn't the Real Problem [22:08] Escaping the "Cycle of Suck" [28:18] Setting Better Boundaries with Owners [34:55] Why Offline Marketing Wins [42:06] Building Growth Engines Instead of Buying Leads [50:14] Hidden Profit Leaks Every Property Manager Has

Quotables

​​"Where you get your leads dictates the quality of the lead and how much they're willing to spend." Jason Hull

"They don't even want to buy property management. What they want to buy is a trusted advisor." Jason Hull

"Interruptions are the biggest thief in the property management business of profitability." Jason Hull

Resources

DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind

DoorGrow Academy

DoorGrow on YouTube

DoorGrowClub

DoorGrowLive

Transcript

Jason Hull (00:00)

Hey everybody, I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGro, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGro, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses.

We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get to the show. Okay, so today's episode,

I'm going to share from my anecdotal experience in talking to thousands of property managers and all the feedback that I get, and all the people that are in our mastermind, what we're seeing is working. So here's what a survey can't show: a survey is basically lagging data, it's not showcasing what's

Innovating because you're not even usually asking questions about the latest innovations. So the questions inherent in this survey, my guess, are slightly flawed because they aren't asking some of the things I would ask based on all of the data and information that I get from this weird sort of fly-in-the-wall vantage point that I have in the industry.

we've always pushed this idea of three different types of buyers: cheapos, normals, and premiums.

Most cheapos self-manage. They exclude themselves from the pool of property management buyers. And then there's a small percentage that eventually go through the funnel online, and then you can capture through marketing. And these are this is what most companies base their pricing around, is based around the cheapos that they can get through internet marketing. Well, the best stuff usually comes through word of mouth or

Further out into the blue ocean. And so if you would like to see more about this, you can get my leads training by going to drgrw.com, which is doorgrow.com, or just go to doorgrow.com slash leads. So do the shortened URL or the longer URL slash leads. And you'll see our there is a clarity assessment you can do. There is a free training, and then you can book a call with our team.

And hear about some of the innovative gross strategies and stuff that we're doing with clients. So the thing to realize is that a lot of you know, it's showcasing these boomers as cheapos. And the the other thing though is it's it's saying that like 62% are represented here. And I think that the numbers of people that actually use property management is far lower than the 500 they surveyed. There's probably also a lot of people that

Aren't even aware of property management, even though they need it. There is this massive blue ocean. I think the numbers are probably more, maybe around 40-50% are self-managing versus using a property manager. And there's a lot of available potential business out there. And they're not looking on the internet. So here is some data that's not in the PM Trends report, but it's on trends.google.com. So if you go to trends.google.com.

And I just threw up an article on LinkedIn today before recording this episode. But if you go to this, go to Google Trends, backdate it to 2004 to the present, what and put in property management. And then feel free to add some other keywords like AI would be very telling, because we've seen the rise, meteoric rise lately of AI in terms of awareness and search volume. Put in real estate is another great keyword so you can kind of see.

What you'll notice is property management is such a minuscule amount of search volume, it barely registers compared to these other terms. And it spikes every summer and goes down every winter. If you remove those terms, is what you'll see. Now, in the last year, there's been a little bit of an uptick for the first time in basically two decades, which is amazing, which is awesome. That means market share is starting to maybe start to shift a little bit and grow. But there is this huge blue ocean of people that will never search the internet.

For property management. And that doesn't mean that they like doing it themselves. This survey probably isn't able to touch any of those people. And this, these are some of the people I get my clients to go after the most. Why? Because it's way cheaper. There's a huge blue ocean of people that are not looking on the internet for property management. The people that are looking on the internet are at the end of the sales cycle. These are typically the worst owners in a lot of instances.

Why? Because word of mouth captures the best stuff first and then the shitty stuff that falls off that table, the scraps that fall off the word of mouth table. Those are the people now that don't care about word of mouth or they don't care who people say is great. They think you're a commodity. They're looking for the cheapest company. And so generally there's a much higher percentage of cheapos that you're going to attract by doing digital or internet-based marketing.

YouTube. The challenge is there's a large percentage of owners that are not looking or searching for property management. They're not looking for property management stuff on YouTube. They're not looking for property management stuff on Google. They're not looking at all. They don't care about property management. Most people

That are even property managers are not usually consuming content around property management. Not very often. A lot of them self-identify as more of a real estate brokerage or real estate agent or anything else that they think is cooler. I even had a client I was coaching recently, and he said that he's really had this mental block, this mental block about wanting to tell people that he's a property manager. And I said, Don't tell people that you're a property manager.

Property managers in your market, he was in New York, are basically somebody that sits in a big building that, you know, they they help do leasing. That's kind of people's perception. You are an asset portfolio manager. You are an investment specialist. There's so many other ways you can present yourself. You are the entrepreneur that hires the property manager. I don't want my clients to identify as property managers. I want them to identify as an entrepreneur because identity limits growth.

the second thing that filters, which is perception. There's a really negative perception about property managers among real estate agents, among investors that are aware that most property managers, if I have you in a room and I say by show of hands, how many of you started your business? Because all of the other property managers in your market sucked. Usually almost everybody's hands go up. And then my joke usually is, but not yours, right?

And then they all laugh. So, but nobody wakes up in the morning wanting to start a crappy company.

So you could waste a massive amount of time trying to do a bunch of social media marketing, a bunch of YouTube videos, a bunch of content creation. And it's not generally going to get you the best clients because where you get your leads dictates the quality of the lead and how much they're willing to spend. And what we find is the clients you can connect with offline through warm lead strategies.

through direct outreach, through creating relationships, through networking, and some of the growth engine strategies we teach at DoorGrow, the conversion rate is way higher. The leads are way warmer, and which means the close rate's gonna be way higher. The trust levels higher, so you're able to get more deals on more easily. And it doesn't cost you anything. It costs you time, but it doesn't cost you any marketing or advertising dollars. And the and a lot of people like, well, I'd rather spend money and save time.

It these leads, warmer leads, take less time. They take less time in the sales cycle to convert. Cold leads take way more time because now you're a commodity and you're competing with all the other companies and now you're in this weird race to the bottom and you've attracted cheapos. Here's the other thing you won't see in this report. The other thing, it does not mention the operational cost of dealing with these different categories of owners. Cheapos, normals, and premiums. So here's the thing.

It talks about communication being the number one factor. I've heard this so many times, and I'm gonna tell you that I believe that this is a red herring or a lie. You have been made to believe by everybody the number one pre reason people leave companies is communication. But it's not because of a lack of communication, like everybody says. It is because of bad boundaries and bad expectations, so owners think.

That they need to be communicated with all the time. And then you have this huge burden of communication to fulfill. And it's very difficult to impossible when you have a whole bunch of crappy owners and a whole bunch of crappy properties and a whole bunch of crappy tenants, and you're caught in what I call the cycle of suck. So this is how the industry is caught in the cycle of suck because most property managers take on any client. So now you have bad clients. They take on any property. So now you have bad properties. And then you do tenant screening, but

You can't really filter that much because the tenants are going to be bad tenants if the property is bad or the owner is bad. Now it's a difficult situation for you to deal with, and you're basically a shit shield for a slumlord. And so now you've got these three things in the cycle suck, which leads to the fourth, which is you're gonna have a bad reputation. And this sums up the entire industry in aggregate. And this survey is based on the industry in aggregate. Okay, so.

What do we do with this? one, you need to realize that the best owners and the best clients that you they they don't want to be involved with their property. They don't want to know everything that's going on. They want somebody, what they actually want. They don't even want to buy property management. Everybody's selling the wrong product. What they want to buy is a trusted advisor, that they could actually relax into.

You have to be the dominant person in this relationship for them to be able to relax and to trust your leadership. And that reduces your operational costs significantly. This is how my wife's business at 265 or so units at its peak.

She still had 60 to 90 percent profit margin. These were C-class properties, and her owners, the boundaries were set very strongly that she is not going to talk to them. And if she calls them, they need to sit down because she's asking for money, because there's a significant problem. And they didn't call her. They they never called to like say, Hey, did you get that tenant in place yet? They just trusted her because she was so on top of things and she set very strong boundaries from the beginning.

This is something we coach our clients on heavily. Is that if you think that your business is all about communication, you've built your business the wrong way. Your business is about management. It's about leadership. And it's about allowing the owners to actually get away from their property and not have to hear from you.

And so when you suck at boundaries, communication becomes the number one factor. When you s and then you're gonna suck at communication because you're setting up an impossible game. Here's the thing: this does not talk about the level of interruptions, and interruptions are the biggest thief in a property management business of profitability. I want you to visualize this. Imagine you're writing a blank check and it says on it, steal all of my profits, and you're handing this to every client you bring on.

It says, call me whenever you want to. Email me, call me, text me whenever you want to. Here's the blank check to steal all my profits. And I will have team members and AI tools and technology and all of this stuff to communicate with you all the time and over-communicate, which just really makes you even more anxious. That makes you feel like you have to manage the manager. And that's not what they really wanted to buy from you. That's the booby prize they get by dealing with a property manager that doesn't know how to lead.

That doesn't have good boundaries.

like Sarah and I talk about this and she jokes and she's like, how many of my owners do you think knew what color we painted the walls or knew what kind of carpet we put into their property? They have no clue. They just trusted us to take care of it for them. They didn't care. They didn't want to know

Long as rent came in. They would call me surprise sometimes, she said. And they'd say, Why am I getting more rent than I was before? Why why is more coming into my bank account? She said, we raised the rent. FYI.

So here's the thing I want you to recognize.

First, there's three types of buyers: cheapos, normals, and premiums. Cheapos generally are going to opt out and self-manage because they're so cheap. But you should have three different price points and three different plans. The premium plan stuff that they mention in this report is useful. But because we've been building premium plans with our clients and helping them figure out the premium tier of their pricing, none of this stuff is a surprise. This is all stuff that's generally included in premium plans that we've been doing for over a decade.

though, you have to change your marketing to attract premium buyers. You're not going to get those by doing digital marketing and attracting the people that are now of super aware and super price sensitive that are searching on the internet. And so you're going to skew towards premium buyers more if you change your lead sources.

On some of the lowest rent properties, they have the highest operational cost. Operational cost was not factored into this report or survey. Not all owners are worth it and not all properties are worth it. And so you have to be aware of this and you need to be cleaning out your portfolio and you need to be firing the properties and the owners that are not profitable or just raising your rates on them to make sure that you make sure that this is profitable, right? Okay.

So these are some of the things that I wanted to point out in this report. I hope this is helpful for those that got this report and are looking into it. I think the the numbers are a bit skewed. It's obviously skewed a bit towards the different services, the different vendors and the different you know partners that came together to advertise and promote this and the sponsors. My recommendation is shift your marketing to offline.

This is the secondary effect of AI. Why? Because AI slop is the age we're in right now. And anyone can create anything AI-wise, digital-wise, marketing-wise. And so there's gonna be more and more digital just bloat and waste and noise. And those that are willing to pick up the phone, that are willing to go out and reach out and that create strategies that are have high leverage. We call these growth engines.

And if you would like to learn about some of the growth engines or get a free two-hour training, no fluff, that breaks down seven to nine different engines you can install in your business that are unique and different from what you're doing now. There are a lot of them are similar, for example, realtor referrals, but we have a strategy that is 10 times more effective. We call realtor intros. And so if you there's like targeting groups and simple changes like using a QR code and a booking link.

Could maximize the results of walking away from groups with leads. Stuff like this. So when you're doing presentations, so there's all these different strategies we share inside our mastermind. And we are at the forefront because we have an army of people focused on aggressive growth. Most masterminds out there in property management are nuts and bolts or operations. Ours is primarily focused on growth, and that growth drives the res the need for operational you know.

decision making operational fixes and challenges for fast growth, not just for building a bunch of AI tools and building a bunch of bloat and getting a bunch of tech and having the most efficient business. We want to optimize for growth. It doesn't matter if you have the coolest, most high tech business, if your profit margins aren't growing and your revenue isn't growing and your doors aren't growing and they're they aren't growing rapidly. And so if you want to shift out of being in survival to maybe being more

Getting having realistic goals, like 100, 200 doors a year, or even like our clients beyond that into what we call impossible goals, where you're able to come up with strategies and clever, unique ways to scale your business more quickly, then check us out at doorgrow.com. Reach out to us. This is the stuff that we have been focused on for 17 plus years now. And because we're always like we always have new, fresh ideas and

New guinea pigs and new people working on this stuff. We have accumulated, I believe, the fastest growth strategies that exist in the marketplace. And many of them cost zero dollars. In fact, I can usually grow companies faster if I convince them to turn off all the digital marketing, all the APM leads, all the Google ads, all of the SEO stuff. Stop spending money on that. And we put the time and energy towards warmer lead strategies that are out in the blue ocean.

Where there's tons of available business and very little red bloody water competition, like there is at the end of this cycle of people searching on the internet where you everybody's fighting over the coldest, shittiest, worst leads.

Okay, so if you want to go beyond what you just see in this PM trends report and you want to start innovating and being part of a community,

In person, not a bunch of Zoom calls, because growth and scaling happens in the room. Our mastermind is in person in the DoorGrow Mastermind. And yeah, it's expensive. But if I can help you offset it by adding 10 new units residually monthly, our program's paid for. And or if I can help you find another $10 per unit if you have 100 or 200 units, our program's already paid for forever. And that's why our program is there's no commitment.

It's month to month because we know we can offset the cost of the program usually within the first month or 90 days if you're willing to put in the work. If you need to add doors, if you're willing to put in the work, or if you already have a bunch of doors, if we can just find more operational costs. The three biggest levers operationally, financially, are people planning and process. And we have a system for this we call the super system. And this is where magic happens because your biggest expense besides taxes.

Which you can offset and eliminate is people staffing. And so if you can reduce those, also our program is easily worth it. Just consider that for the one, two, or three grand a month, depending on the level of the program you're in with us, we're like your cheapest team member that helps you make the most money. And it's an absolute no-brainer. So come join what hundreds of property management companies have realized. And the other thing I want to point out, what this doesn't talk about.

There's some invisible blind spots that every property management business I've ever looked at has. There's three foundational leaks. I've talked leaks I've talked about on the show previously. There are also six leaks that exist inside the pipeline. And most people are like, How do I grow? How do I turn on the leaks? And they're ignoring what comes after that. The hose. This is branding, reputation, sales pitch, pricing, all these things that will help clean up.

without even changing your current acquisition channels or lead sources, you could double the amount of deals that you're bringing on.

so if you would like to really grow your business, you want to grow quickly, you want to shore this up, you want to hear about our new door machine where we do the growth for you. I hire and train and manage a salesperson in your market. Then reach out to us at doorgrow.com and check it out. Now, today's sponsor, I want to read this message from our sponsor. We have an awesome sponsor today. It's super. If you haven't heard of Super,

You can check them out at higher super.com. Now, ring ring, who's there? Not property managers. Over half don't answer their phones during business hours. Hot leads calling you directly or going straight to missed calls. If you're spending time and money on growth, you need to actually capture it. That's where Super comes in. Super's AI receptionist sounds lifelike, answers 24-7, and is trained on property management. It even makes follow-up calls to leads you might have missed. Go to hiresuper.com/slash doorgrow and stop missing revenue.

Missed calls. Cool. So go check that out. Now, these are the key things. I again shout out to Peter and Jordan and all the cool people that were involved in putting this report together. I think this brings up a lot of the industry that pay attention to it a little closer to where we've been trying to push people over the last decade. I'm really excited to see some of the conversation that comes out of this and some of the innovation that comes out of this.

And yeah, and if you have ever felt stuck or stagnant, you want to take your business to the next level, reach us at dorgo.com for a free training on how to get unlimited free leads. Again, go to dorgo.com/slash leads or text the word leads to 512-648-4608. Also, we have a free community. We've migrated it from Facebook. It's now inside our own app. You can get the app by going to your app store right now on your phone. Do this right now.

Go to just search for DoorGrow and you'll see the DoorGrow Hub inside the App Store for iOS or the Google Play Store. Download this. There is a a space inside of this that is the new DoorGrow Club. And if you go to DoorGrowClub.com, it will take you to our new space inside of the DoorGrow Hub system that we have, our new community.

Most of the really cool places are locked down for our property management mastermind members or people that are in our PM Growth Launchpad, which is a little tool for that's really cheap, like 97 bucks a month to help some property managers get really good at cold calling and go create business right now. If you're struggling for doors, it's the most easy, consistent, I mean it's hard work, but it always works if you do it right. And growth strategy, and then in our mastermind, we have

more advanced growth strategies so you don't have to do the cold calling, that you can create leverage that once you build these growth engines, they just you keep a little fuel in them and they just keep running and they feed you more and more business. You can stack these, which is really awesome. And they really don't cost any money. It just takes time and it takes less time than doing cold lead marketing, like I told talked about earlier. So check us out, but go to DoorGrowClub.com

If you want tips, tricks, and ideas to learn about our offers and stuff like this, go to doorgo.com slash subscribe, subscribe to our newsletter, opt in. We would love to send you some cool stuff. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe on whatever channel this is that you're listening or viewing this on and leave us a review. It helps us. We'd really appreciate it. It's a little way you could give back. Thank you. We appreciate it so much. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth.

is to do it alone. So get a good group. Get in with a really good group of people that are focused on high paced growth. And so let's grow together. Bye everyone.

In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, Jason Hull sits down with entrepreneur, author, and business strategist Leigh Angman to explore the principles behind building sustainable, profitable businesses. Leigh introduces the SPRUCTIS framework, a system focused on profitability, systems, communication, technology, integrity, and sales. Jason and Leigh discuss why so many business owners operate without knowing their true financial health, the importance of surrounding yourself with people who elevate your business, and how documenting processes protects long-term growth. They also dive into the mindset behind entrepreneurial success, including the power of "delusional optimism," making decisions through the Pleasure Utility Determinant (PUD), and why success often comes down to consistently making slightly more right decisions than wrong ones.

You'll Learn

[00:00] Introduction to Leigh Angman and the SPRUCTIS Framework [01:29] Leigh's First Entrepreneurial Lesson at Six Years Old [05:07] Why Every Business Owner Should Know Their Profitability [06:22]] Breaking Down the SPRUCTIS Business Framework [15:02 Delusional Optimism and Thinking Beyond Realistic Goals [21:13] The Pleasure Utility Determinant (PUD) Explained [24:13] Better Decision-Making Through Value and Mindset

Quotables

"You cannot make intelligent decisions about your business if you don't know what your financial health is." — Leigh Angman

" "The only way that I've been able to find success... is to surround myself with people that are smarter than I am." — Leigh Angman

""If you think you can or you cannot, you're absolutely correct." — Leigh Angman

Resources

DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind

DoorGrow Academy

DoorGrow on YouTube

DoorGrowClub

DoorGrowLive

Transcript

Jason Hull (00:00)

All right, I'm Jason Hull, the owner and founder of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses.

We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. In today's episode, here on the DoorGrow Show, we have Lee Angman, serial entrepreneur, business strategist, author of Spruptus from Insight to Action with over 20 years of experience founding and scaling companies across hospitality, tech, and real estate.

Lee is going to be sharing his practical framework for small to medium-sized business success. And we're going to talk dive into a bunch of topics like mindset, delusional optimism, and the pleasure utility determinant PUD for redef redefining success and the best free technology tools entrepreneurs can leverage to scale smarter. Lee, welcome to the DoorGrow Show.

Leigh Angman (01:12)

Thank you so much, Jason. ⁓ it's a pleasure to be here.

Jason Hull (01:15)

Great, so where I'd love to start is why don't we dig into your background? I want people to get a feel for who you are and how you sort of arrived where you are right now in life in your entrepreneurial journey. How did your entrepreneurial journey sort of start?

Leigh Angman (01:29)

⁓ I I like to talk about the first taste of entrepreneurialism that I got. I was six years old and I was at a a rodeo in the the north of British Columbia, province of British Columbia. I'm Canadian up here. And I was sitting with my family and watching this is this was, you know, 40 something years ago, ⁓ and watching rodeo events. And my father just kind of leaned over to me and he said,

Hey, take a look around, what do you see? And I saw, of course, a bunch of ⁓ recyclable bottles that the friendly patrons of this rodeo had been consuming during the day. And he said, you know, if you round those up, because they're just at people's feet and you take them back to the point of purchase, they'll give you you know, for X number of bottles that you out, they'll they'll give you a quarter. And I said, You kidding me? He said, No, go ahead. So I started and I excuse me, could I could I get that? Could I get that? Remember, I was only six years old at the time.

So it was very interesting. And I, and I certainly recall thinking about that beautiful sunny day many times, you know, 12, 15 years later when I was working at a at a

you know, a fast food restaurant or a gas station. It was in those days, no matter how hard I worked, I got paid the same. And I much, much preferred that original story of being back and being able to work harder or work smarter. and it and it took several years after working in in restaurants to get into the entrepreneur world. But it's been over 25 years now since I have have been kind of owning and operating businesses. And

Jason Hull (02:36)

Yeah.

Leigh Angman (02:59)

I like to say that the the worst possible definition of hell that I can imagine is being at a desk on Monday morning at nine o'clock simply because Mr. Johnson tells me that I have to be there.

Jason Hull (03:09)

Alright, well let's see if we can all win against Mr. Johnson. So all right, so ⁓ cool. Well let's let's get into the topic topics at hand. where should we start? ⁓ y we could start with the spructus or we could start with ⁓ you know, some of your mindset things, what w we

Leigh Angman (03:26)

Sure. They all they

all flow from the book. I took two years and launched last November, two years to write a book. I found myself ⁓ evolving processes that have been applied to various businesses that I have owned and operated, been a part of. and most recently we I I've owned I've owned restaurants and pubs in Vancouver for twenty-three years now, give or take. and

What I like to say, and when I'm speaking to other entrepreneurs and business owners about this, is do you know what your profitability is every two weeks? And if they say yes, then there's not much I could do to help them. But there's you'd be surprised how many entrepreneurs that operate small to medium businesses, and I define that as something that does up to about $15 million in annual revenue. you'd be surprised how many of those people don't know what their profitability is.

Until you know a couple of weeks after their chartered accountant delivers them their financials at the end of the year. And it's a terribly frightening concept for me to absorb that you cannot make intelligent decisions about your business if you don't know what your financial health is. So Spructus, which is the name of the book that I wrote, which stands for systems, processes, redundancy, urgency, communication, technology, integrity, and sales.

Is really a framework that covers a lot of those things that are defined by the individual letters of the word. But but one of the very most important parts of it in there, it clearly defines

a framework

that has been refined over the last 15 or 20 years that allows us complete insight into the business.

⁓ we know what our profitability is to the penny every eight to fourteen days. And if there's anything that someone takes from that book, it's a very clear roadmap to exactly how to do that with any kind of a ⁓ you know, a self-owned business. So that's the core foundation for the book.

Jason Hull (05:07)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You know, I love I love the idea of focusing on profit. I've had Mike McAllowicz on the show and he has booked Profit First. So I don't know if you have any way to connect this to that in any way, positively or negatively, if how you feel about that. But I know that just even a business setting aside a certain amount for profit so that they actually have some profit is a great s like really large baby step that they need to take. So

Leigh Angman (05:27)

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah,

absolutely. I I think and one of the things I say to my partners all the time when I deliver them news about you know where we where you sit financially, there's you you don't turn a profit every single period or every single month. We operate on four week periods for various reasons, but just knowing where you are, even if you're in a loss, it's just knowing that that position in which you sit.

that allows you to make those intelligent decisions about how to support the growth and sustaining of your business.

Jason Hull (06:16)

Got it. Yeah. Love it. Alright, so ⁓ should we go through the framework? Or

Leigh Angman (06:22)

Yeah, quickly I'll go through them. redundancy is not in the way that that people are made redundant and made irrelevant, but it's all always about not siloing your brilliance and being able to ensure that there's not one really smart person in the business that only knows how to do a particular amount of things ⁓ that that nobody else knows. So if they are lost for any particular reason, the business is in in dire need of ⁓

Jason Hull (06:41)

Yeah.

Leigh Angman (06:49)

Or in in big trouble. one sidebar on that is, you know, I I always say the only way that I've been able to find success in the last 25 years of owning and operating businesses is to surround myself with people that are smarter than I am. and it's not difficult to do. ⁓ but you know, really, I am not aware of any entrepreneur, and maybe AI is changing this, but to date, I'm not aware of any entrepreneur that has created a massively successful business exclusively on their own. So

Jason Hull (07:15)

Yeah.

Leigh Angman (07:15)

That

idea that there's some very smart people in your business is critical for its success so that they can do things that you're not talented at. Obviously, each person in that equation has to bring something to the table. and they can specialize it.

but they should absolutely share and document the items that they specialize in that could allow someone else to take over.

Urgency also factors its way into lots of other things.

There's lots of examples where urgency is is very, very critical. And I spoke about how these topics intertwine with each other, urgency in communication, urgency in systems and processes that you you know, that you under that you were involved with, urgency in your sales. So you could see how all of these kind of things start to cross-reference each other in a bit of a matrix.

technology is is an incredibly important part to any business. I've watched it change.

and we're obviously in a time where communication is 24-7. Your ability to get information from the internet is 24-7. ⁓ but leaning into that kind of technology, AI is a perfect example of the modern version of of you know the latest and greatest advance in technology. ⁓ you have to lean into these new technologies or else they're not going to be.

Jason Hull (08:27)

Yeah.

Leigh Angman (08:31)

you're you're not you're just not going to

gonna be able to sustain your business.

my experience has found that has led me to believe that without integrity, your success is not long lived.

Jason Hull (08:34)

Right.

Leigh Angman (08:42)

It's short-lived and it's and it's ⁓ a lack of integrity absolutely can lead you to finding short-term success. But ⁓ my in my life I have certainly you know shot for a lot deeper than that. ⁓ it's hard to sell things, it's hard to operate a business, it's hard to start a business if you have integrity. ⁓ I have found anyways that a long-term more sustainable sense of success has been achieved.

And then of course

doesn't matter whether you're a a butcher, a baker, or a candlestick maker, as long if you can't sell your product, you're you know, it's the it's that exchange of of of of monetary documents for your goods or services that lead to your ability to sustain that business.

that.

Jason Hull (09:25)

I love it. I I

really resonate with that. I you know, just going through it, some of the things that popped out to me, you know, we you were talking about having smarter people and yeah, if it it if you don't have systems, processes, and redundancy, you're vulnerable. And y you can be in a really dangerous spot. And we have a client that he had like three hundred doors in his property management business.

Leigh Angman (09:42)

Absolutely.

Jason Hull (09:50)

And he lost one key team member and then his entire team fell apart and he realized that person was carrying everybody. And so he laid everybody else off. And so he had total team turnover twice in like a really short time period, in like months. And so his hair was on fire. He was so strong. And so we had to help him build a hiring system, but and then make sure we get good people. But a lot of companies build teams, but they don't realize and they think they need processes. I call it the process myth, but what I find is

usually they just need better people. Better pe people that have integrity, people that share their values. And when that's off, they're always spending way too much money on people. So

Leigh Angman (10:19)

Fair.

Yeah,

absolutely. on that exact note, I was ⁓ a recruiter in New York and Vancouver in the very late nineties and early two thousands. And very quickly early in my career, I found that there were two types of hiring managers. One when when we brought them what we called a rock star, was a a super high-end ⁓ candidate for a position. When we brought a rock star to the table, one type,

Which was, of course, the very successful type was the one that embraced them and was excited about bringing this wildly intelligent person into the fold of their business. and it always led to sustainable long-term growth and that kind of result. Whereas you had the other type of hiring manager that was paranoid that this new amazing person was going to steal their job, was going to make them look bad. and and it's a it's just awful. I just did not.

like to work with that type of hiring manager at all. So you're very right. You know, the idea that surrounding yourself with those right people, it is the kind of decision that one makes that allows you to build those systems and processes in place. But finding the right people is is key to the success in any business. Absolutely, I found.

Jason Hull (11:34)

Yeah, very true. It's a it's it's really interesting. We see that even with clients, that if they're positive active versus be versus being negative active, meaning they're actively trying to figure out how to make things work, how this could work, they're looking through a positive lens versus actively finding flaw or fault or sabotaging the they they prove themselves right either way in in our own programs. And so the positive active clients are the ones we filter and look for, right?

you mentioned urgency. I'm like I had a problem with sales for a bit and it was I had tons of stuff in our pipeline. We were having lots of great conversations. Everybody loved what our offer was, yet nobody was closing. And it was simply because we lacked questions around urgency. And so just adding in the element of urgency really ramped up sales. It was just questions like, Why would it matter for you to do this now? Or does it even matter at all? And letting them figure out and find the reason there might be some urgency. So

that made a massive difference. communication, I love that. speaking with people rather than talking to. Yeah, if you're not having a conversation, then you're not learning and you're not listening. And and the last thing you want to be as a as a CEO or a boss or an owner of a business is the Emperor with No Clothes, where everybody just says yes to everything that you say and everybody comes to you and asks you to do all the thinking for them.

And this is where business owners build a team and they don't they're it they do it blindly or unknowingly initially, but they don't understand why won't my team just think for themselves? Well you designed it that way.

Leigh Angman (13:00)

Yeah,

you have not empowered them to do so.

Jason Hull (13:02)

Right. And so, yeah, because the safest thing in the world is to have them have you do the thinking for them. Then they can't get fired for doing what you told them to do, you know. But yeah, empowering them to do it and motivating them to do it. And then you mentioned technology. Lots of people are leaning in into AI now. Yeah, integrity I think is paramount because there's nothing ⁓ greater than character to elevate somebody. If somebody has great character, they rise up in any organization

Any system they're in, any friend group that they're in, integrity, like character, people recognize that this is a person that they can rely on, that gets things done, that has their life together. in any situation that my wife and I are in, we tend to always rise to the top. And I believe the secret is just care good character. And ⁓ the shortcut is a shortcut in life. ⁓ I'm really inspired by one of my mentors, ⁓ Sharon Shrivatsa. He was the CEO of Real.

Leigh Angman (13:49)

It's yes.

Jason Hull (13:58)

He's now the CEO of the Alex and Layla Hermosis Companies, Company Umacquisition.com. But I was in a little mastermind with him, and he was just, he's this gentleman that came to the US from India, had like got r got robbed right as he entered the US. He convinced the person mugging him, taking his money, to give him a little bit back so he could book a a r ⁓ a ride somewhere.

and ⁓ get a tr a train or a bus or something. And ⁓ and even when he was in school he was like dumpster diving to get food out and now he's a billionaire, right? And so he always found ways to be the best. And he always has operated with integrity at the core of that. And who he was is what really elevated him, I believe, to where he's at now. He's also a brilliant thinker, but I think it's a sign of intelligence.

To live with integrity. So yeah. So and then sales.

Leigh Angman (14:53)

Amen.

Jason Hull (14:55)

really, really great stuff. So I I love mindset. Let's get into this mindset of delusional optimism. What tell me about this?

Leigh Angman (15:02)

Okay. ⁓

I love the expression. I tell my 15 year old son this all the time. If you think you can or you cannot, you're absolutely correct, right? How you set yourself up for success and

I talk about the idea also, it's it's not just about how you think, but it's how you prepare to think. Are you set? Are you established? Are you you know, ready to take on the next challenges that as an entrepreneur come to you all the time? A way that I always like to describe. I can't remember who said this, but I I I've latched on to this quote. It's being an entrepreneur entrepreneur is like waking up every morning and getting hit in the face with a baseball bat.

And having the occasional pieces of positive reinforcement to remind you to keep going. Okay. So this concept that that ⁓ those that have not owned and operated their own businesses tend to not see as deeply as fellow entrepreneurs is that there's always going to be another fire to put out. And it's not, I believe in the law of attraction as well. So it's not like you're attracting these things, but you have to understand that it's they're gonna come to you.

No matter what you do, there's going to be a challenge. There's no safety net in running your own business. You are the one that is responsible for making the decisions to push things forward. And when we talk about delusional optimism, it's really setting your mindset in a proper way to establish that you are going to do that thing. some people call it manifestation. there's other words for it. So

I was saying, you know, in all the things that I've read, I'm not reinventing these things. I am just saying, look, these are this is a collection of ideas that have that I have cobbled together and learned about over the last several, you know, decades to that that have just given me blatant positive feedback that what I am doing is at least the right, you know, decision. And making that right decision 51% of the time is what you have to do to find that success, right? That shouldn't be the goal, but

That's the the bare minimum. in terms of this delusional optimism, it comes down to the car that you're going to get, the relationship that you want, the the you know, the the the house that you want. And it's not all material things by any stretch of the imagination, but the body that you've wanted, you know, all of these kinds of things. you know, when it comes to a sales topic or a sales call.

I know statistically, there's zero way, zero percent chance that I am closing all of the deals that I go into. But I can promise you the little pep talk that I give myself prior to going into any sales call is you've closed this. It's done. I'm not looking past the process that needs to occur to get there, but I am absolutely seeing that sale closed. It, you know, it you you could apply this to so many elements of your life.

Jason Hull (17:51)

ja

Leigh Angman (17:56)

Doesn't matter what it is, if you want it, the only thing from stopping you from getting there is you.

despite all odds believing that you're going to achieve exactly what you want to achieve. Make sense?

Jason Hull (18:08)

Yeah, totally

I think it ties back into what I had mentioned about being positive active. we yeah, you have to be optimistic. You have to believe it before you can achieve it. And you know, it's it's I feel like it's as simple as turning on a light switch. If you don't believe the light switch works, you're not even gonna try turning it on. And it's not hard to turn on a light switch.

Leigh Angman (18:17)

Yes, love that one.

Jason Hull (18:28)

But you won't even attempt it if you're like, yeah, I don't think there's power in this building. Yeah. And so it's it doesn't necessarily have to have to be hard. There is a place certainly for hard work, but it just being optimistic certainly makes everything less hard. Because we're creating our own limitation, our own barriers. We're not trying things that could work or could be. And I've seen, you know, business owners that were delusionally optimistic. Like I had a client who decided.

Leigh Angman (18:30)

Absolutely.

Jason Hull (18:55)

He felt it was hard getting to his first 100 doors. And so he decided, I want to be at a thousand by the end of this year. And he and he did it. He went and walked into property management businesses, met met them, met the business owner, shook hands and said, Hey, would love to buy your company. And he found a 900-door owner that was willing to sell. And he was at a thousand doors by the end of that year. And so, but if he didn't have that level of optimism,

Leigh Angman (19:01)

Amazing.

Jason Hull (19:19)

And that sort of impossible goal, if you will, he wouldn't have tried that. He would have done what everybody else does. Well, I'm gonna see if I can be realistic and get a hundred doors this year. I've I'm a really big fan of Ben Hardy, Dr. Benjamin Hardy. He's in a master men. And ⁓ he shared with us down in Mexico this his newest book, which is The Science of Scaling. And he talks about in this these different sort of goals, and I kind of

built my own mental model around this, these three levels of goal setting. But the basic idea is level one is their survival goals. These are where it's terrible to live, right? We make bad decisions usually from this place. It's like I need to get money in. And the next level goals are realistic goals. That's level two. And so this is where we focus on something, but this is where our brain kind of caps our thinking because we already know how to do it. It's just work harder. And so we're not a visionary at that point. But when we shift into a impossible goals

The goal becomes a tool to change our thinking, he talks about in his book. And so he says we either use time by collapsing time down to something that makes the goal impossible, or we make the goal so much bigger, like 10x bigger, to make it impossible. But either way, it changes the path and it changes our level of thinking, and then we become a visionary. And when we hold space for these goals that others would say are impossible. Because if we focus on just what's realistic, then the challenge is we cap our own thinking because our brain already knows how to do

Leigh Angman (20:40)

Absolutely.

Jason Hull (20:40)

And it's like

right. And so, so this really ties into that. I I love that, I love that so much. And I've seen people when they shift into having a big enough goal, they become optimistic. If they can just hold space for a big enough goal that is currently impossible to their current realistic negative brain, it forces them to shift into into what I call a playground where we're playing with ideas. Whereas when we're realistic, realistic goals are like a yardstick by which we beat ourselves up with.

'Cause we rarely rarely hit them. It's always a linear, difficult path of a lot of hard work and multiple steps, if that makes sense. So yeah, I love this. Love this so much. So tell me what is a pleasure utility determinant?

Leigh Angman (21:13)

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

the amount of effort or energy or dollars that you spend to achieve a particular thing for one or two or three choices, up to an infinite number of choices, it it if you think about things in that frame, right? It allows you to more easily make decisions about what to do. And I speak all the time that life is just a series of wagers.

Every single day you're making choices whether to go A or B in terms of a different direction. And we need things to help us make choices in this world. It's just one, like I said, started as an amusing thing, but factored into business decisions. It's not always about getting the thing for the cheapest. It's about deriving the most amount of pleasure or success from the decision that you've made based on a number of parameters. Make sense?

Jason Hull (22:12)

Yeah, I love it. When people get too hyperfixated on one currency, and and one of my mentors talked about, you dropped a few of them right here. t s his name's Alex Sharfin and he talks about the five currencies of time, energy, focus, cash, and effort. And these things we have to invest in life and in our own business. And ⁓ yeah, and a lot of business owners I've noticed will continually invest.

And focus on the business, but not on taking care of themselves. How they initially build their teams. This is always the solopreneur transitioning to having a team. I call this the team sand trap after they get past the solopreneur sand trap. But in this team sand trap, they always build a team around the way they thought as an on as a solopreneur. And that the and so they always end up with the wrong team because they s they're

building this entire team around themselves, but they are showing up as the wrong puzzle piece at the center. And because they're not focused on what they want. They're not focused on what they need. They're just continually giving the business what it needs. And then the business becomes almost like their master. It's like a high chair tyrant flinging food in their face. You know, if anybody has kids listening, you should not be just giving this thing everything that it always asked for or needs or wants.

To the exclusion or the detriment of yourself. You gotta be taking care of yourself. That's the other lens. And so I like this idea of figuring out, all right, how do I figure out the pleasure utility determinant related to this thing I'm making a decision about? How is this going to benefit or serve me? And is this giving me more of what I call the four reasons for starting a business: of more fulfillment, more freedom, more contribution, and more support? If it's not giving us more of those four things,

then we're losing those. And it's very easy to make more and more money and have less freedom, have less fulfillment, have less contribution and have less support. And then we end up very miserable, even though we're in control of it all. So we just made a tactical bad mistake. We designed the business the wrong way. And it's our choice how we design it.

Leigh Angman (24:13)

if you seek value, whether it's in people, whether it's in your business, whether it's in something that you acquire, whether it's an experience that you are that you were having, ⁓ and and again, it's not value for money, it's value for those other currencies that you just explained, right? Your time, your energy, your focus, these kinds of things. ⁓ it's a it's a almost a comical concept, but if you apply it in a serious manner and you you just allow yourself, it's just a tiny little tool.

Jason Hull (24:31)

Yeah.

Leigh Angman (24:41)

To allow yourself to become ⁓ in a positive mindset framework. It's again, I taught I mentioned this very early on in our chat here today. It's not about just thinking, it's about how you prepare to think. It's just yet another one of these little tools that helps you prepare to think about how you're going to solve the series of wagers that are put in front of you every single day. As an entrepreneur or as a as a life partner with, you know, your wife or your.

you know, your spouse, whatever it happens to be, ⁓ or as a parent, all of these things come down to making decisions. And we need to factor in various tools to help us make the right ones.

Jason Hull (25:20)

Yeah, got it. So I mean just even asking ourselves, you know, what this business decision that I'm looking at making, or this life decision, would this bring me more joy or would it take way? Cause if we look through the wrong lens, like what if we're always like, what would be cost less? Or what would be cheapest? And we're focused on the wrong thing. And I don't think the goal is to save a bunch of money and be miserable.

Leigh Angman (25:36)

Right. It's dangerous. That's right.

Yeah. Yes. It's it's a very simple concept, but like everything else in the world, the idea that you pull one lever down and you know, there's a hundred levers on the wall. There's a there's a lot of you know, discussion in the current political climate of the world where people are led to believe that there is simply two lever there are simply two levers. Pull one down and it's gonna pull the other one up and it's gonna solve it. Clearly not the case in business, in life, in politics, in anything else.

But this idea that you allow yourself tools to help make the series of choices every day that will lead you to a greater likelihood of success. I will embrace all of those. Another thing I like to say all the time is you don't know what you don't know. There's there's a million brilliant people out there, millions, millions, surely, of brilliant people out there that that I could learn from. I love to hear these types of you know,

Jason Hull (26:30)

Yeah.

Leigh Angman (26:36)

tools that they have acquired in their lives to help them make the right decisions. Again, this is but one of many.

Jason Hull (26:42)

Yeah, yeah.

you know, a lot of times we think something else is gonna make us feel a certain way. And we think, if I had this amount of money, I would feel the certain way. If I had this car, I would feel a certain way. Usually boils down to a feeling. And ⁓ and then the question is eventually we maybe figure out as we mature, hey, can I just choose to feel a certain way rather than trying to fill this hole constantly, right? Can I just share what's keeping

me from feeling that way.

What do you feel would be for those listening that really want to have better financial health, what would you feel are maybe the best tools or resources, books for them to kind of get start figuring this out?

Leigh Angman (27:21)

I mean, I'm gonna pump mon spructus' tires a little bit, you know. If if you go to Amazon and check out Spructus, S P R U C T I S, you can see the book and it'll give you a taste of of exactly what this framework is. And ⁓ you know, we are the easiest people in the world to get a hold of ⁓ at spructus.com. I could be found on LinkedIn at Lee L E I G H A N G A N, which is Angman.

Jason Hull (27:25)

Yeah.

Leigh Angman (27:43)

And I I would love to tell people about this because it's it's it's if you have the capacity to operate a spreadsheet, we can show you how to do that.

continue to growth, keep an open mind, learn from people, have a thirst for education and and just continue to try to grow your career. I like to I like to believe I'm gonna be able to do that until the day I drop dead.

Jason Hull (28:02)

Yeah, me too. Lee, ⁓ pleasure having you on. plug some of your your URLs etcetera. How can people get in touch or learn about you and and all your different stuff? ⁓ go ahead and you've given us some URLs, but go ahead and do that again here.

Leigh Angman (28:17)

Yeah, I'll summarize.

⁓ I would for the property, obviously we spoke a lot. I've I've listened to a couple of your episodes on property management. there's a tremendous of amount of ⁓ fantastic resources there, and clearly this is what you're focusing on. If people want to learn about the the offerings that we have on the property management software side of things, you can check out Mondofi, O N D O F I dot com. you can learn about the book.

on Amazon or at sprukeddis.com, S P R U C T I S dot com and reach out on LinkedIn. I'm the easiest guy in the world to get a hold of. It's Lee Angman, L E I G H A N G A N. Would love to learn from some of the brilliant oper entrepreneurs that you sp I would love to meet this guy you that that created his big hairy audacious goal to get a thousand doors. Like that's the kind of guy that jacks me up that that that I love to hang around with that's like we're gonna do this crazy thing.

That everybody has told me no, I can't do. I want that kind of positive energy in my life. And I've worked very hard to surround myself with that kind of person.

Jason Hull (29:18)

Well, I if for those that are listening, if you're a property management entrepreneur and you're listening and you felt stuck or stagnant and you want to take your property management business to the next level, this is the type of room we curate here at DoorGrow in our mastermind. So reach out to us at DoorGrow.com. And if you'd like a free training on how to get unlimited leads for free, text the word leads to five one two six four eight four six zero eight. Also, you can join our free community by going to doorgrow club.com.

And if you want tips, tricks, or ideas, and to learn about DoorGrow's offers and what we're up to, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this episode even a little bit helpful, which I hope you did, because this was really great stuff. Thank you, Lee. then don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review on whatever channel you saw this on, we'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone.

So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

Leigh Angman (30:14)

Thanks so much.

In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason Hull and Sarah Hull discuss why they're reinventing DoorGrow Live and moving away from the traditional "sit and take notes" conference model toward a more immersive, action-oriented experience built for real business transformation.

They dive into the problem with most industry events: property managers leave inspired but overwhelmed by pages of ideas they never implement, and explain why execution, in-person collaboration, and human connection are becoming more valuable than ever in today's AI-driven world.

Jason and Sarah also unpack the growing impact of AI on business, why human relationships are quickly becoming the true competitive advantage, and how surrounding yourself with growth-minded operators can completely change the trajectory of your property management company. Instead of just learning new strategies, attendees at DoorGrow Live will work directly on their businesses, connect with innovative operators, and leave with momentum, clarity, and real progress already in motion.

You'll Learn

[00:01] Introduction to DoorGrow Live

[03:10] Why Conferences Often Fail

[08:00] AI, Human Connection, and Growth

[14:20] Why In-Person Transformation Matters

[22:10] What Makes DoorGrow Live Different

[31:00] Building Real Relationships in Property Management

Quotables

"Transformation happens in person, not by watching videos in some sort of platform or going to YouTube."

"Your business is gonna be the sum of the five business owners that you are the most connected with, not the sum of the five AI tools that you use the most."

"You've got to be around people that are real, that are doing real things in the real world, getting real results."

Resources

DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind

DoorGrow Academy

DoorGrow on YouTube

DoorGrowClub

DoorGrowLive

Transcript

Jason Hull (00:01)

All right, hello everybody, I'm Jason Hull. This is Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies. For 17 years plus, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners

and their businesses. want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. All right, Sarah, what are we chatting about today? We're going to talk about Door Grove Live. That is coming up. So go in and change it right now because this is at least the fourth podcast episode in a row that you've done.

with that and I said go in and change it and then you don't and then you read it again the next time. Yeah I don't think the appropriate time to fix your script is during the show. I know. I doubt they want to hang out while I'm making changing the script. think it She hates the phrase decade and a half. think that sounds like a long time but she likes 17 years. She's very particular. It sounds better than decade and a half. like, okay, I don't know. It's ambiguous. There you go. It's

All right, tell them about Dorgor Live. Let's talk about Dorgor Live. So we've got our ⁓ annual, we usually do this as a conference and this year we're making it less conferencey and more workshopy.

Conferency workshoppy Conferency workshoppy so the reason the reason is a lot of times when people go to a conference and we're included in this We'll get to a conference You know, you're listening to the speakers. You're sitting in on the sessions. You're networking with people You're getting a whole bunch of different ideas and a lot of times what we hear From so many people who attend is why I've had so many ideas, you know, I have 32 pages of notes

Well, that's great. How does that translate though? So what you just did is you got 32 pages of notes, all these great ideas, so much great content, and you gave yourself this never ending to-do list. And then you get back to reality, back home, back in your business, and then you go, wow, I have no idea when I'm going to do any of these things. I just don't know. They're all great ideas. I should do them. And also, that's a lot of time.

because there's so many ideas. have 32 pages of notes. That's a ridiculous amount of things to do. So what we decided to do is, all right, what if we just made it so that people can be in the room and take action right then and there? So that by the time you leave the conference, so you'll spend two days at the event, by the time you leave this two-day event, you will already have taken action on things.

So instead of going to a conference and getting a really long to-do list that you may or may not ever implement, you can go, you can be in the room, you can work through things right there with the leaders of the workshops. So what if I can work on my business in the room alongside my peers who are

you know, in the same industry and in the same sector as I am. So that's what we've decided to do this year is make sure that you guys walk away with.

not only a plan, you will of course get a plan, you will get a lot of great ideas, will get, you know, you'll still get a bunch of notes, you're still gonna get all of that. However, you'll be able to walk away saying, hey, at this event, you know, here was what my business was before and I spent two days working on the business and now here are things that are already different because I came to this event. So that was our thought.

And that's what we're going to do for you guys this year. So we already have some of these workshops in mind, how we're going to structure them, who's going to lead them. We've got some really good ones in store for you. ⁓ And some of the sponsors are going to be leading some of these workshops as well so that they can again do the same thing, get you to take action right then and there so that you can walk out of that room with a different business than it was when you walked in. Cool.

And what's the focus? On which workshop? Well, the sponsors with everything else. think there's definitely an AI forward focus that's definitely been very hot. It's definitely the case with the vendors that we have sponsoring. We've got some awesome sponsors already for this event. they're going to be showcasing. We're always showcasing the best tools. And Dorgalive.

And so a lot of our clients are the innovators in the industry that are getting on board with the best tools. ⁓ I hear about every new property management tool, system, software, five-coated piece of garbage, like you name it. Everybody's reaching out telling me, hey, I've got this thing. I want to give it to your audience. So we hear about all this stuff and we bring the best stuff to Door to Live. And ⁓ we also just because we're connected to

hundreds of property management companies, and we're always getting feedback, and we've got 3,000 in our Facebook group, and we're always hearing what's hot in the market, in the industry right now that people are having good results with, and our clients are like a whole bunch of guinea pigs trying stuff out all the time. I think we've got some tech forward kind of movers and shakers in the space, so.

So there's that. And like Sarah was saying, a lot of you, you go to an event, you go to a conference, and you get this massive to-do list or a list of ideas. And then you come back to your team and you pull out your idea grenade of all your stuff and you pull the pin on it with your teeth and you throw it into the middle of the room, say, we're doing all this. And your team are like, great, I don't like you anymore. And I'm not excited about this. And I already have enough work. Thank you, jerk. And now I have even more. And they're not excited about this because you're not.

You're not rolling this stuff out in the right way. And so we're gonna help you walk away with action. The other thing is this in-person is gonna become more and more important. Human connection is gonna become more and more important. So at our events, we're shifting our focus to more and more connection and less and less preach, less and less just somebody talking at you and you writing down ideas.

We're getting you connected with others. You're creating relationships. These relationships can change your life. And we attract really great people at DoorGrow. Our clients are awesome. And so if you want to be in the room, that's where transformation happens is in the room, not on Zoom. Transformation happens in person, not by watching videos in some sort of platform or going to YouTube.

Transformation also doesn't happen just by talking to AI endlessly. AI can only take you so far. how many of you I'm sure listening have been down the rabbit hole I have where you just go deep into the dark hole of AI and you're talking forever and you're like, man, I have all these great ideas and now I'm implementing all this cool stuff. then like two months later, you walk out of that hole and you're like, hey, I'm not any farther ahead.

I've just been having lots of conversation with something that isn't even real, right? You've got to be around people that are real, that are doing real things in the real world, getting real results. And do they use AI? Yes. But you're going to collapse time significantly. You can't just be talking to AI because AI is manipulative. AI will give you, make you sound like you're amazing and make you think you're amazing. And everybody else's stuff sounds like it's amazing too.

The only stuff you know is real, like you might have this really amazing ⁓ SEO report from some sort of AI coaching thing for property managers. And it could be complete garbage, but you'll go and do it and it sounds really good. And all the AIs will like, yeah, that sounds pretty good when you ask them about it, but it might not be what's bleeding edge or what's actually working right now. And if everybody could do it, then just by talking to Claude, then everybody would have done it.

already by now, so that's not even a competitive advantage anymore. that's my two minute rant on everybody going down the AI rabbit hole. And I'm not anti-AI like Sarah knows, I like using AI tools, but you've got to put them in the right context and you've got to make sure that you're really creating relationships with humans because no matter how good AI gets, your quantum computer of a brain and its level of intuition,

and its level of processing information still is better than talking to Claude. And being connected with other people that have those type of brains, humans, can be really effective for you and for your business. And your business is gonna be the sum of the five business owners that you are the most connected with, not the sum of the five AI tools that you use the most. So, cool, all right. What else should we say about Door to Life?

That's our plan for Door Girl Live this year. So if you are listening and you are already one of our Mastermind clients or one of our Dorm Machine clients, then good news for you is your ticket is included already. You have a ticket. Yay. Just register an RSVP for it. If you're not, for some reason,

one of our clients already in the mastermind or the dorm machine. You're missing out. are. You are definitely missing out. But if you're wanting to go to the conference and you're maybe just not you're not ready to do the dorm machine, you're not ready to do the mastermind, maybe it is even what you need right now. That's that's totally fine, too. But if you'd like to grab a seat in the room and be around

some other property managers who are doing really cool things in their businesses, ⁓ or just meet some great people who think outside of the box, who think bigger, who think differently, ⁓ and make sure that you're not falling behind in this crazy world, especially with AI now. Then you can still grab a ticket. So go to doorgrowlive.com.

and then you can make sure that you register and grab your ticket. You can do that. There will be a link to click on there. And I believe it'll take you to eventbrite, so you'll see that. Grab your ticket on there. And then you'll want to make sure that you book your accommodation. So the event itself will be on a Friday and a Saturday, October 9th and 10th. October 9th and 10th. A Friday and Saturday.

held here in the North Austin, Texas area. The city is Round Rock. North Austin, Texas is easier to remember. ⁓ And it's at Kalahari Resort. We have done our event there for the past few years. It is a great venue. They take great care of our group, which is why we continue to book there. what's great is that the hotel is connected to the convention center.

and everything that you could possibly need is right there on property. So the... Fun stuff. Yes, the room is there, the event center is there, the rooms are nice, and then it also has a whole bunch of other things. So if you would like to bring your family, you can absolutely do that, and your family can go enjoy the whole rest of the resort while you are at the conference. So...

Keep that mind. It is very family friendly. It is the ⁓ largest indoor water park in the nation and they have all kinds of things there. Like they have mini golf and escape rooms and a whole arcade. They have the indoor water park. There's an outdoor water park too, if you like some of that Texas sun. They've got all kinds of games and bowling and laser tag. Kind of like this adventure ropes course too.

Super fun. Yes. I don't know if it's like an obstacle. Yeah, you're like strapped into it, but you you go through it's pretty cool. yes, there's a lot of cool stuff. Tom Flury's, the arcades. There's all kinds of things there. So your family will have a great time. They will probably be very thankful that they got to go, especially if you have kids. Kids love the water park and it's a you write it off as a business expense. So

Let the business pay for the family to go. I think when you book, especially when you use, I think they do it all the time, but I know for sure when you book at Calahari through the room block that we have, then they include tickets to the water park for you included in that. So make sure that if you're interested in coming, one, you get registered, and two,

consider bringing your family because they will love it. We've had clients bring their kids and then kind of the kids go out and they hang out together and they kind of do their own thing and they kind of like pop in the room every once in a while but most of the time they just spend you know going and having fun and the kids have a blast and it's great because everything's right on property so you don't have to worry how am I gonna get my kids there and how are they gonna get back and forth they're gonna walk because it's on property so

great, great, great convention center. And it's so convenient having everything on site plus the restaurants are on site too. And the food is great. and a spa. If you're a spa person like I am, nice spot too. So if you want to see, get an idea of what this kind of looks like, ⁓ our events in general, they're intimate, they're connective. It's not like a massive group. It's not just somebody speaking at you.

It's some of the coolest people I think in the industry. These are growth minded people. Most of them are investing thousands of dollars on a regular basis to just grow and improve themselves. And so you can go take a look at some of the photos of our past DoorGrow Live events by going to photos.doorgrow.com if you want to get a feel for what it looks like. ⁓ But yeah, make sure you're there. It's gonna be awesome. Okay, cool.

So if you're needing time to work on the business, not in the business, doing the property management stuff, there's time for that. You'll always have time for that. So if you're needing to work on the business or figure out how to stop working in the business as many of you are, and I know you are, this will be a great event for you to attend. So my calendar is October 9th and 10th. It's a Friday and Saturday. Go to doorgrowlive.

and you can book your accommodations and grab your ticket. Cool. And you know, this isn't for every property manager. Our key focus are long-term residential, third party, and if that's you, we would love to have you out. And this is for contribution-focused people, people that want to benefit and help others, that want to make connections, that want to make friends, that are willing to share. And as our late mentor, Aaron Stokes, would say,

your breakthroughs are on the other side of embarrassment. So the goal is to come here and be the coolest person in the room. This is for people to come and handle tough stuff and to get breakthroughs. Breakthroughs happen when you're in the room. And this is for people that are willing to get vulnerable, even if it's in front of others, because they know these others can help them. They can help you get unstuck. They can help you solve the problem. There are people there, sometimes with 1,000 plus doors, that have solved problems that you need to solve.

I was trying to hold it in and... Just have that cough climb right out. So... I'm joking on a peanut. Oh. Because I ate peanuts right before I came on the ship. Okay. It was a good decision. That's good decision making. Yeah. Okay. Do you need the Heimlich? Are you okay? I think I'm Alright, that's good. Probably I'd like to keep you around. Thanks. Okay. So that's Dorgalife.

⁓ We're also related to that, we started doing intensives for our mastermind, these in-person really intimate events, and we also do our onboarding in person ⁓ in our mastermind. We have these jumpstart sessions where we're able to help people really get their profit margins up, create financial space, free up massive amounts of time, ⁓ clear out bloat and waste in their business. We've just seen inside so many companies and helped so many people do this stuff.

If there's any problem you're struggling with between zero to a thousand plus doors, we can help you get this stuff dialed in and everybody gets breakthroughs. And so that's what we do at DoorGroves. So if that's interesting to you, reach out. ⁓ And anything else we should say? All right, then we'll cut to the outro. Anything you want me to change in this one? All right, I don't think so.

Well, no, there's things we should update, it's fine for now. For a decade and a half. We've been, okay, just kidding. If you've ever felt stuck or stagnant. Why are you so mean to me? All right, those listening, who is mean to who? Who is mean to who? All right. So if you felt stuck or stagnant and you want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at doordoor.com.

We have this new program she mentioned, the door machine, for those that haven't heard our episode about that. We add the doors and you manage them. It's the coolest offer ever. So if you want somebody that's proven to just grow a business, we can do that. Our salesperson will walk around in your market and grow your business. ⁓ So there's no excuse to not grow your business now. There's no excuse. None. Zero. We will train the person. Zilt. We don't even have to.

Coach you on how to do it. We'll get somebody else to do it for you, right? And everybody wins. It's awesome, awesome idea. So for free training on how to get unlimited leads for free, if you're just struggling for leads, text leads to 512-648-4608. Also, you can join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas,

and to learn about our offers, can subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. Until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone. Deck it in half.

In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason Hull and Sarah Hull discuss how AI is rapidly changing business, marketing, and communication, along with the growing problem of "AI slop" and why authentic human connection is becoming more valuable than ever.

They break down the secondary effects of AI, why in-person relationships and masterminds are becoming a competitive advantage, and how property management business owners can stand out in a world flooded with automated content, fake interactions, and digital overload.

You'll Learn

[00:00] The Rise of AI Slop

[06:20] Why Human Connection Still Matters

[12:10] The COVID Parallel and Isolation

[20:00] Why In-Person Transformation Works

[31:30] AI, Trust, and Real Relationships

[43:40] The Future of Property Management Growth

Quotables

"The secret to creating a scalable business is to do the unscalable actions."

"Transformation happens in the room, not on Zoom."

"If you can make it easily, so can anybody else."

Resources

DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind

DoorGrow Academy

DoorGrow on YouTube

DoorGrowClub

DoorGrowLive

Transcript

Jason Hull (00:00)

we live in a world of the next stage I'm calling AI Slop. AI Slop, we're in the world of AI Sloppy Sloppiness. I just got a letter, no offense, NARPM, but I got a letter from y'all You wrote this using ChatGPT.

This is the problem with Narpum 2.0. We're not just talking about the future of our association, We're actively building it. it's not A, it's B, dead giveaway. And there's lots of other dead giveaways. And some of you are starting to hear this AI voice and you're starting to recognize this AI voice. And so we're now in the world of ASLOP where nobody is writing anything.

All right, hello everybody. I'm Jason Hull. This is Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market,

and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. All right, now let's get into the show. All right, so in today's episode, we're gonna be chatting. Just change that right now, because every week I tell you, stop saying a decade and a half. So just go ahead and change it right now. Okay, for, she doesn't like that I say a decade It drives me For 17 years. For over 17 years, yeah. That's how long it's been.

for over years. I'm like decade, decade sounds like a long time, but all right, we're changing it. Cause the life wants to change. 17 years space week. There we go. right. Updated real time. Yeah. Done. That's how we get stuff done. Okay, cool. What are we talking about today, Sarah? talk about how AI is starting to change things. Okay. Let's do it. All right, so.

One of the things we've been talking a lot about is the secondary effects of AI, because everybody's talking about AI. And I think we started in phase one was the AI revolution. Everybody's starting to use chat GPT. Now people are starting to use Clod for business and people are learning prompting. now people starting, some of you are starting to vibe code. And some of you are making videos. Some of you started making images with AI and

Now we live in a world of the next stage I'm calling AI Slop. AI Slop, we're in the world of AI Sloppy Sloppiness. I just got a letter, no offense, NARPOM, but I got a letter from y'all and I can tell you wrote this. You wrote this using ChatGPT. It's like, I mean, the big giveaway phrases and some of you have heard stuff like this. It's like, and we love NARPOM. Thanks for NARPOM for sending us a letter, but.

This is the problem with Narpum 2.0. We're not just talking about the future of our association, M-Dash. We're actively building it. So with blank, it's not A, it's B, dead giveaway. And there's lots of other dead giveaways. And some of you are starting to hear this AI voice and you're starting to recognize this AI voice. And so we're now in the world of ASLOP where nobody is writing anything.

And the people that do write original content, like I've done a couple of Facebook posts just recently, totally handwritten, I wrote the whole thing. And I really enjoy writing. The challenge is, is some people don't recognize how to get their voice into AI. And so anyway, we've got this whole world of AI slop now. Anything can be created by anyone instantly. You can create images, video, text, and so...

You've probably heard me talk about fake internet theory. Have you ever heard of this idea? I have, but just for anyone who hasn't. So the fake internet theory has been around probably since the, you know, once the internet went mainstream. And the fake internet theory is this idea that the majority, at least half in the past, of all the content, all of the traffic that was on the internet, was bots.

It could be like Google crawling sites. It could be a lot of different things, but at least half of all the traffic was bots. Well now with AI, this is even worse. Perplexity is doing research. All these different AI tools are doing research. People are not crawling stuff or crawling websites a lot of times. They're just talking to AI and AI is doing all this. And so the internet now, all the content isn't even, if even this letter probably was not written.

by D.D. Garzone, the Narfim president, 2026. It was probably written by AI, which saved her time. And it's not a bad letter. The challenge is people read this, see this, and we're starting to recognize what's AI and what's not. And we're kind of developing, there's kind of this feel, this voice that you're like, oh, that's AI. And so what am I doing? I just discount stuff. I read and go, oh, AI wrote this. I probably don't even need to read the rest.

So we just skim stuff, we stop reading things. And so this is the challenge is that people want reality, people want humanity. And so the secondary effect, we're in phase two, AI slot, phase three, I believe, is going to be a return to in-person. It's gonna be human interaction. The secondary effect of AI is that human interaction is going to be significantly more important.

And this is where things are going to be shifting to in-person. Things are going to be shifting away from digital marketing. Things are going to be shifting away from anything that you can tell AI to do quickly and easily. And I've always said to our clients, the secret ingredient to scaling your business is depth. The secret to creating a scalable business is to do the unscalable actions. That's depth. And so we're going to talk about today the importance of in-person.

Yeah. So do you guys remember in COVID when everything shut down? Yeah, good And then you couldn't leave your house? Yeah, was great. Yeah, because you might die. So that was great for a little bit, right? Everyone was like, we don't have to go to the office. I don't have to go to work. This is like, would just hang out in my house in my pajamas all day and eat some chips. And like, no, I don't know. It'll be amazing.

And that was a really fun thing. What voice is this? What is this voice? I don't know. Who speaks like this? I'm just letting you know it's not me. I'm gonna be lazy. I'm gonna do my pajamas. Today I got some pajamas on. Are they southern? Now they are. You don't know. They're all over the place. I can't do it in New York. Anyway, so it was a really fun time for like

I don't know, two weeks. The first week was awesome. It was like when you have a substitute teacher and then they put on a movie and you go, this is great. We don't have to do anything today. This is amazing. This is gonna be so cool. And the first week- thought it was awesome. I think for the first, yeah, I think a lot of people really thought it was really great for the first week because they were like, oh, this is great. Like we don't have to go into the office. I a lot of workers, think employers, business owners were freaking out. Yes, exactly. Business owners were-

Although they liked, let's be honest for a second, property managers were real happy about getting a vacation. And it was a vacation that you were forced to take. Right? You couldn't go and do things you normally do. And if you decided to not do showings or decided to not go to the office or decided to, know, like, hey guys, we're all going to work from home. No one was going to fault you. It was going to be totally fine because everybody else was doing it. So it would have been totally fine if you were like, hey, we're not doing.

Showings or hey, you know, we're gonna slow down on inspections or you know, hey, we're you know, we're not gonna come into the office We're all gonna, you know stay from home and then at some point we'll go back to the office for a little bit I think people welcomed that they were like, oh, this is great. This is fun And that maybe lasted a week maybe two maybe even three weeks for some people and then after that they were like what? When can I leave? I what do you mean? Like I'm stuck in my house. I'm I can't

get out, can't go anywhere. When my kids are here, they were all stuck together and no one knows what to do and we're all bored out of our minds and they were starving for human interaction. everything, Zoom, look at the Zoom stock in 2020, skyrocketed because everything moved to remote. Everything moved to Zoom. It was like.

we can't meet in person, but we still kind of have to do things. How do we do it? We are going to do Zoom. And then even remember when a lot of like commercial real estate, it it tanked because people were like, we can't go into the office. We're not buying office space. We're not renting office space. We're going to wait and hold out and see what happens in all this crazy COVID stuff. Right. And it's because all of us were just stuck in our houses. So everything became virtual.

Everything became remote. Even the things that are normally done in person, a lot of them started to shift so that it was no longer in person or the full thing wasn't in person. There was just the one quick little piece that was in person and everything else was done virtually. did we? Okay, I didn't know if you had the podcast. And then

At that point, people were starving for human interaction because it's not the same being on a screen. Looking at a face on the screen and hearing voices on a screen or on a phone call or through Zoom or Teams or whatever it was or emailing and texting and phone calls, it's just not the same. So people then started to go a little bit stir crazy.

And what happened, like as soon as things opened up, then what happened? Things started to surge again. People were desperately trying to connect with other people in person. They were going to their friends' houses. They were trying to meet up with their friends. They were trying to go on vacation. Travel started to boom again. Why? Because people, we are meant to be with other people.

Humans are not solitary animals. We're just not. So AI is going to end up creating something that I think is quite similar. We're going to rely on AI so much just because we have to. And it's an amazing tool. It's incredible. And it makes things a lot faster. And we can do things that were not possible before. And we can do years or months of research in minutes or hours.

the advancements that it allows us to make and in such a short time span are remarkable. But the other thing that it does is it reduces the human to human communication. And now even has anyone ever picked up the phone and called a company and you don't talk to a human now? Now you talk to the AI agent. Yeah. Right. And that seems really great.

because you go, okay, it helps me and I answered my questions and that's lovely. But can you imagine now that most of your interactions are going to be with AI? Most interactions will not be with other humans. Most of a human's interactions will be with a bot or AI. Even if it sounds like a human, it will be AI. And that kind of effect is go, I think it's.

we're going to see largely what we saw in COVID all over again, where people want to see and interact with and talk to and hang out with people. Yeah. And I think that's going to be incredibly valuable. Yeah. I think as humans, when we shift into a mode of isolation where we're no longer interacting with other people,

and you're spending the majority of your day talking to Claude and chat GPT and building things and you probably feel a lot of dopamine. You're like, look at all the stuff I'm getting done. But you're just contributing to the problem of AI slop. If you can make it easily, so can anybody else. And so it's not just about creating more stuff with AI. That isn't really a competitive advantage. Everybody can do that. The competitive advantage really is being in person.

It's those that the wealthy will be able to afford to slow down. The wealthy and the smart will be able to afford to be able to go slow, not faster. They'll be able to spend more time with people. They'll be able to spend more time with their family. They'll be able to spend more time going deeper into building real relationships.

These relationships you have with your AI agents aren't real relationships and they're not going to create the connection that humans need. And they're not going to create the connection and the feelings that your clients need. Clients don't just need their stuff done. That's not it. They need human connection. They need trust and they need to feel safe. So alienation is going to lead to isolation.

And isolation will lead to stagnation in your business because you're not around people that are actually making moves and figuring out how to connect and make a big difference. And the thing that we've noticed, because we've been in a lot of different programs, I mean, we've been in lots of different mass, high ticket masterminds, coaching programs. spend a lot of money every year.

That's a bright thing. Yeah, we've been in all the best programs out there. We probably have been in them or connected to them or whatever. And so we've been in a lot of different programs. We invest a lot. And the thing I've noticed is we've been in a lot of these programs, but the real benefit of the programs, most significant benefit is the caliber of the people physically in the room.

It's the people that we get to meet. It's not the guru at the helm. It's not their cool content or ideas. Everybody joins for the content, but it's really, it's the people, it's the connections. It's the community that's curated. And that's one of the things that we're really shifting our awareness and focus around. I've realized that transformation always happens in the room. It doesn't happen over Zoom. Wow, that rhymes. You can all quote me on that. That's a Jason Hall written all over.

Transformation happens in the room, not on Zoom. And Zoom calls the other thing related to fake internet theory. You can ask AI about this, people. AI people, go check me on this. There's a psychological effect that watching being on Zoom calls on video and watching video training material inside of even our DoorGro Academy does not, your brain does not perceive this as real life. It perceives it as

This digital universe, it's fake. And so we've noticed our clients aren't able to just watch a video and implement or absorb it mentally the same way. And once they get in person with us and they recognize we're real people and we give them a high five or a hug or whatever, and they come to our onboarding, because we onboard every Mastermind client in person now. We also have quarterly events that we're launching.

for about two years. We've been doing that for a long time. saw the writing on Huge game changer. And we decided, hey, let's go, we can go much deeper in person. Totally. Than we can ever get to on Zoom or on a phone call. So we decided that should be one of the first things that we do with people is really get them in momentum quickly. And what's the fastest way that we can do that? We can get them in person. Yeah, cause on Zoom, it's very easy for you to look like you're cool.

It's very easy for you to look like everything's put together. Slashy lights, like YouTubers, and you can get some books and stuff in the background. You're making fun of me now? Have a pretty background. I see what's going on. You can have a boring office without cool lights. We can both play this game. Okay. So what I'm saying is...

When you're on a Zoom call with a group of your peers and business owners and people maybe you look up to, it's very easy to not give people your real situation and not reveal what's really going on. That's hard to avoid doing in person, especially if you're called out or your mentor's calling you out. That's difficult. And so you need to be in the room because you have to get real feedback. You have to share your real challenges. You need to recognize they're real people. Your brain and unconscious mind and your subconscious need

to recognize these ideas that you maybe saw in video or see on Zoom or the people you see on Zoom are real. And there's something that clicks and shifts when we get our clients in person. All of their results shift. They make more money. They have breakthroughs. And your breakthroughs are on the other side of embarrassment. One of my mentors would share. And one of our mentors would share. And that's, you have to be willing to get real.

And real and raw happens in person. It's just not going to be the same on a Zoom call or on video or even digital marketing. We're looking at how we can do less of that ourselves and do more stuff that actually creates real connection and relationship with people. Because I think anybody can do anything digitally now Let me go take some property managers out to lunch.

That's what we need to do. We need to meet people face to face and in person. do door to door. Yeah. I know. I think there's going to be a secondary effect that we're going to see a lot of things shifting back to humans. We've spent so much time over the last decade sitting in front of computer, like so many people. And I think if AI does anything well for us, it will be that it gets us out from behind the computer and actually hanging out with

human beings again. And that should be the goal. And the people that are smart are going to be focused on that. And that's why our DoorGrow Mastermind, we've shifted the priority and the focus to being an in-person mastermind. And we've seen people have great success with this, our mentors like Aaron Stokes and others have great success with this. And that's what we're wanting to replicate and emulate.

And we want people to have real relationships. We want people to have a family, a cohort of property management business owners that feel connected and are doing cool stuff. And that way you can cut through all the AI slot because everything AI puts out sounds like it's great and amazing. Every landing page looks like, yeah, this sounds like it could be awesome. And so it's hard to know if anything is real at all.

and a lot of stuff on the internet is not even real anymore. A lot of the products you see aren't even like actually real or decent products. They've just got great AI marketing and you can go buy the product for like a third of the cost on Ali Express or Alibaba or whatever. Or you can go on Amazon. Some of these products I'm seeing on Instagram, you can go buy for like $50 cheaper on these small products on Amazon. And so it like, yeah. And AI can create courses too.

Anyone can get on any AI thing and go, hey, I have this idea and have this thought and I want to create a course and then sell this course online. Build me the whole course, build me the material, me the script. everything. You can even have AI. If you don't want to do the video for the course, you don't have to. I can just do it. You can summarize it. You can do that in minutes now.

What value is there in that? The challenge is, is that there's no way to know what really works. Right. Because AI is just making stuff up based on what it has in its knowledge base. We have a lot of awesome stuff that's behind our payroll. hitting the table because every time you do, it's a whole time shakes. Yes, dear. Okay. This is going to be, if someone's watching this podcast live, I'm so sorry if you're like ceasing. It's like bouncing a little bit.

It shakes. That's me. I'm moving around so much. Many earthquakes. Seizures. Got it. No taking. Okay. Well that's how you know it's not AI, right? You're shaking the table. AI's not going to say that to me. No, AI would Claude, how do I respond to my wife? All right. Awesome. All right. yeah, so this is the idea is

We want to shift towards reality and in person because if I'm talking with a property management business owner and they say, this is what I've done and it's actually working, whereas AI will just hallucinate, it'll make stuff up, it will lie and just make everything sound amazing because somebody could say, just make this sound like it's amazing and it works and it's awesome. And it might not be. And so how do you know it's real anymore? You're going to need to be around real humans that can say, I did this.

I tried this thing. I used this AI prompt and here is the result. It wasn't great. Or this worked. And more importantly, that's a bad idea because AI doesn't want to tell you if it's a bad idea. AI is so affirming. It goes, that's such a great idea. Yeah, you should definitely do that. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you sure? Is that going to work? Yeah, you're on the right track. Yeah, you've got this dialed in so well. And then

You could also do this and no, no, no. You're not coming up with a new idea. You're a game changer. You're not just cool. You're awesome. right. So yeah, know AI is really bad at telling people bad news. Well, I know there's people listening and they're like, well, I use this and I have this problem. I get it. Like, but yeah, chat GPT. It's But you have to you feel amazing. You have to give a prompt.

in order to make it be more honest with you, in order to make it not just affirm everything that you say. So when we think about what is the programming of it, therefore then what is the validity of it? So we have to kind of reprogram it just in order to get better output from it and better data from it. That doesn't mean it's the best data. What is great data is here's a real person. They've been there, done that.

I'm going to trust that over what AI tells me any day of the week. Yeah. And people trust AI. Like, I use AI to do research on things because I'm like, this product claim real? Is this landing page on the level? And sometimes it's like, yes. And sometimes it's like, no, this is overinflated. This study they're citing is like, misreference, whatever. There's so much BS. So now we have to use AI to combat AI to figure out what's real. But this is going to be one of the secondary effects is we need to be

connecting with human beings and we need to be in the room with real people and in person. And that's what AI should enable us to do it. It should enable more humanity. It should enable more connection, not disconnect us. okay, anything else that we want to say about this? So if you're looking for something that is a real human, and if you're looking for human connection, then we've got...

Events coming up in October. I know that by the time this will be released, you'll miss the May event. But we do have live in-person events coming up in October that you would be able to attend. They will be in the North Austin, Texas area. And one of them will be our fall intensive. This will be for our clients. If you're not yet our client, then you still have some time to figure out, you know, hey, let's just jump in and try it out.

The other one is our DorgR Live event. And we've decided in this whole AI spirit, let's get people moving through things quickly. And instead of just sitting at another conference, because there's so many of those in property management, where you just sit at a conference and you go home with 38 pages of notes and all of these ideas that you would love to do, and maybe you're going to do one of two of them, and that's about it. And then in reality,

there's all of this other good stuff and you never really got to it. But had you implemented it, it might have changed the business. So we've decided to instead shift. So it's not a conference where you're going to be sitting there in the room, taking notes and learning, which is very valuable. That's still a valuable thing. We're just making it more valuable. So we're going to have some workshops built right into it so that you can go there.

do the work, take action, and you can move your business forward. And the way that we're structuring things is it will allow you to get 30 or more days of work done in the two days at the event. And it's in person with real humans. Yeah. So I'll read a little quote from our offer document for our growth accelerator mastermind. And it says, the room where property managers stop playing small.

Most property managers are stuck trying to grow from behind a screen. Watching webinars, sitting on Zoom calls, collecting PDS they'll never read and wondering why nothing changes. And nothing changes because your environment hasn't changed. You've got to get into a different environment. Environment changes the identity. Even fish will grow to the size of the container that they're in. You need a different container if you want to grow energetically, spiritually, mentally.

I don't know, maybe physically. All right, so the DoorGrowth Growth Accelerator Mastermind, our super system level of the mastermind, which is supposed to focus more on operations for higher level operators or business owners. This is not just a course. It's not an online program. I'll be AI. It's not A, it's B. It's like, this is what actually really works. This gets you real results. And so, yeah, so come.

is come be in a seat with us in Austin. Come hang out with us. Come hang out with us. We curate and attract like the most amazing entrepreneurs. We have a new team member named Kyle who's over Client Success. And Kyle, we were just chatting the other day, him and I, and he was like, I was talking about, have really awesome clients. He's like, I know, it's so amazing the type of people you attract. Like we attract, I believe, the best people in the industry. The best humans in property management are in DoorGrowth's mastermind.

and are working with DoorGrow. And a lot of the coaches, a lot of the people out there, they're past clients of mine. Like, DoorGrow's had a significant impact. And I'm obviously a bit biased, but I believe we have the best stuff in the industry to bring to the table. And we have the most comprehensive program. We help with growth. We help with ops. Nobody else has rebranded over 300 companies. Nobody else has built, well, maybe someone's built as many websites as us, but we built hundreds, probably six, seven, 100, 800 websites.

helped people clean up their pricing. We've rolled out innovative three-tier hybrid pricing models. We're helping clients dramatically increase their profit margins. If you feel like you've heard it all and you've worked with all the other coaches, you may want to take look at DoorGrow because we have the most comprehensive. There's lots of coaches that do one little thing here or there. And there's some really great ones out there. But as far as having the most comprehensive program and I think the most innovative ideas and strategies, that's the only way you can curate and

have that is through some sort of mastermind environment and that's what we've created at DoorGrow. Okay so there's tapping me on the leg saying stop selling like let's wrap this up. Is that accurate? I interpreting things correctly? Okay. You got it. All right. And there's salespeople are gonna sell I just say I want you to win and I don't hate money so and I want you to not hate money and I want to help you make more money. All right cool. Anything else? No. All right cool.

And we will do the outro and here's what this sounds like and this will be relevant. All right. So if you felt stuck or stagnant and want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at doorgrow.com for free training on how to get unlimited free leads. Text the word leads to 512-648-4608. Also, you can join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners by going to doorgrowclub.com. We have launched our own

private community outside of Facebook. And so we'll be telling you more about that. The DoorGrowth Club will be somewhat shifting into this new awesome space. And if you want tips, tricks, and ideas to learn about our offers, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrowth.com slash subscribe. And you can get our newsletter. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it on whatever platform you saw this on. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth.

is to do it alone. So let's grow together in the room together. Bye everyone.

In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason Hull and Sarah Hull discuss the launch of the Door Machine, DoorGrow's new growth-focused program designed to help property management companies scale faster by handling the hiring, training, support, and systems behind business development and sales.

Breaking down why most property management companies struggle to grow, the biggest mistakes owners make when hiring salespeople, and how having the right systems, accountability, targeting, pricing, and support can completely transform a property management business.

You'll Learn

[00:01] Introduction to the Door Machine

[03:20] Why Most Sales Hires Fail

[08:10] The Systems Behind Property Management Growth

[14:40] The Three Keys to BDM Success

[21:30] Fixing Targeting, Pricing, and Offers

[31:20] How the Door Machine Partnership Works

Quotables

"If you have a system that's working, you really don't have a problem."

"If you take a good salesperson and plug them into a broken system, it's going to break."

"At best, if you're running a company and you are the salesperson, you will always be a shitty part-time salesperson at best."

Resources

DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind

DoorGrow Academy

DoorGrow on YouTube

DoorGrowClub

DoorGrowLive

Transcript

Jason Hull (00:01)

Five, four, three, two, one. All right, we are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we've brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses, the business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry

eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right, so in today's episode, we're gonna be chatting a little bit about the new offer. I think we mentioned it previously, I don't know, on an episode, but we're gonna be talking about the door machine. It's evolved a little bit since then, but we're gonna talk about the door machine, our new offer, our new program for property management business owners that want to grow.

So we had teased in the previous episode, we chatted briefly about it, we never really dug into details. And now we're ready to do that because the door machine is officially live. So if you are interested in growing your property management business and you want growth to just magically happen for you, if you ever think

Jeez, it'd be so nice if I could just miraculously get to like 500 doors, 800 doors, 1200 doors, whatever that number is in your head, and you wanna get there, it would be awesome if it would just like poof and happen. You know the magic wand? Like if you had a magic wand, you could just snap your fingers and have the business of your dreams at whatever size or count that's going to be, then this is for you.

This is going to be for you. Cool. So basically the simple idea of the door machine is we are looking for businesses to basically partner with that we can help grow and scale their business. We will add the doors, you manage them. It's that simple. And we will also help you to be able to keep up with the growth by giving you access to our super system level of our mastermind as part of this deal. So

So the way this works is if you're one of our clients that's gone through the process of cleanup and the rapid revamp and all that then you're probably meet the prerequisites. You've got healthy branding, you've got a healthy website, you've got the right pricing model, we have a very innovative three-tier hybrid pricing model that we install in clients' businesses. You've got maybe financial health going in the business, profit first. ⁓ Some of these, there's some prerequisite basics.

If you do not have all that, you have not been part of our program, we will come out for two days. Two days? we will come in, on how messy your business is, but we'll come out for two days and we will basically rehab your business. We will help redo your branding. We will redo your pricing. We will redo your website. We will redo your, like the whole front end of the business so that we have a really good

program and offer to sell if we're selling people on your property management business. And so we have this launch intensive that we will come out and do. It is not inexpensive, but it is, I believe, ridiculously cheap for the value that we offer at the present because we're because it pays for itself as well. Easily pay for itself. So we will come out and do the process that a lot of our clients do over the first quarter with us. We will do it.

rapidly with you and you need to be open to making changes if you're the right fit for this, but we will come out and do this launch intensive with you at your location. and I will come out. After we get that done, we will then build out the hiring mechanism and we will get a salesperson and the salesperson is going to work for DoorGrow. We will train, coach, support this person in your local market.

and help them to be able to build their own sort of little business, growing your business. And so this is kind of, it's a win-win-win for all three parties. It's a win for this person that's going to build this sort of business, creating growth for your business. It's going to be door grow, being able to manage this relationship and maintain the quality level with this business development manager, this BDM or salesperson and the business owner.

we will coach and support the business owner yourself in making sure that the business can remain scalable as we start adding 100, 200, 300 doors a year to your business so that you don't break. Because this is a big challenge and we've helped a lot of people with this. So how does this work? Well, normally, if you're gonna hire a salesperson, how would this look? So if you do it the right way, then usually you start with creating a...

you create your RDoC, is just a fancy word for job description. You will do some sort of job post somewhere, indeed LinkedIn, wherever that ends up going. Then you start getting applications and you start screening applications. Well, let's skip to the financials because we don't need to tell them the whole process of what we'll do. We're going to. Okay. All right. Here, continue. Then you get to do a bunch of interviews.

and then you bring someone on, you onboard them, you train them, and then you continuously and every single day support them. And that's where, well, in all of that, at various stages, most people fail. Yeah, somewhere. So sometimes they never even create their company culture documents, and then they wonder why they can't hire the right person. Yeah. Sometimes they don't create the right job description, and they wonder why they can't hire the right person.

They don't know how to properly interview and screen candidates. Or when they have the right person and everything has worked out and then they hire this person, then they just kind of throw them in the fire and they go, all right, go do sales. I hope you can figure it out. And there's a little bit of training, but there's really not a system that you can just plug this person into. This salesperson has to figure out and go build a system.

and most of times they don't know how to do that. And then it's not working out and the business owner is upset and the person that got hired is upset because no one is winning and no one is making money. Both parties are frustrated usually with the other one. The person who got hired is upset because they're like you like have nothing. This is a whole

guessing game and nothing is working and I don't know what to do and you also don't know what to tell me to do. And then the sales person or the ⁓ business owner is upset with the sales person because they're going, well, geez, I hired you to be able to figure all of this out and you didn't figure it out. And now I wasted a whole bunch of time and money. And that's why usually it fails. So you can do that. You can absolutely figure it all out yourself. Everything is figured out.

if you learn enough and know enough and figure out, know, if you, if you waste enough time, you can figure it all out eventually. Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. You certainly can. Yeah. Most people don't really have a good system for hiring and definitely not for training because we've seen it again and again where people will hire someone who is great for a sales position and then it doesn't work out.

And then they go, this isn't working. I think I to let this person go. How do I have that conversation? Like, what should this look like? And when should I do that? And why, you know, do I, what do I tell them? Like, why am I making this decision? And usually that's the end result that they get. And then they kind of get to go back to the beginning and they get to reassess and they go, okay, should I try this whole thing all over again?

Or should I just do something different so you can absolutely do that if you know how to do this by all means go do it or You can just push the easy button and let us handle all of that for you including the training and including the support and that's where a lot of people they Just don't want to do it. They don't have a system. That's already built to put a salesperson into

they bring on that salesperson and expect them to build the system. And most salespeople aren't good at building systems. They're good at selling, but they're not good at building a sales system. So if you take a good salesperson and plug them into a broken system, it's going to break. But there's a big disconnect there. So we build the system. We will do the recruiting.

the screening, the interviewing, the onboarding, the initial training, the ongoing training, and all of the support, daily support for these salespeople so that they will consistently learn and grow and get better and sharpen their skills and figure out what is working and what isn't working and how do I double down or triple down on the things that are working so that I can get results as quickly as possible because they're motivated, they want to make money.

Salespeople, they like winning. They want to make money. That's how they win is when they close deals. So the easiest way to like deflate a sales team is to make it almost impossible to close deals. That's what we've noticed. So then we decided to just fix all of those issues on the back end. And instead of leaving it to business owners who are already busy, who if they had the system for growth, they would probably not need a salesperson.

because they already have the system. If you have a system that's working, you really don't have a problem. But a lot of times they don't have a system and they don't have someone who is going to consistently do sales. They usually have somebody who's kind of dabbling in it. Usually it's them. Sometimes they have somebody who's part-time or they have like a real estate agent looking to make some extra bucks on the side. But there's not a real system and there's not real dedication to sales.

And the ones that have a system and the ones that have actual dedication to sales, those are the companies that you see that get two, four, six, a thousand doors. That's why you see that. So that was something that we noticed is, hey, this ends up being complicated for some people and actually probably the majority of people to do. So we just built this system and that is what the door machine does.

So we will handle all of that work for you so that all you need to do is manage the doors that we give you. All right, so let's talk about why this is hard for people. So Sarah brought up several good points about getting a salesperson. We focus on hiring. First, if you're gonna do this yourself, you've gotta make sure you get the right person. That's the first problem to figure out. And the right person has to be the right

They culture fit for the business, otherwise you're not going to trust them. They have to be the right personality fit for the role, otherwise they won't be good at this. They have to be the right skill fit or intellectual fit to be able to develop the skill or talent to be able to do this job. So that's hiring. If they're not all three, they're going to fail. Always do. And if any team members you have right now are not all three, you have to let them go. It's inevitable.

Your business will never be able to grow if you have bad people. The next piece, assuming you get all three of those nailed and you have as good of a hiring system as we do, then the next piece is the BDM or salesperson has to have three key ingredients to BDM success or they always fail. Fail means they aren't making enough money so they quit or they're not making you enough money so you fire them or they're not.

kept, they're too comfortable, so they get lazy. Either way, it's not working, and so they will either quit or you will fire them. And this happens all the time. The issue is not going to companies and getting somebody to help you with hiring. Lots of people help you hire BDMs, but they still fail. And the failure after the hiring piece, if that was done well, is it's not because they didn't have the right personality, it's not because they don't share your values, and it's not because they don't have the skill to do it.

Those companies will usually show them or train them or whatever. It's because of you. That's the tough love. So here's how this works. You have to have these three ingredients. They have to have the right training and strategy. That's number one. If they're doing stupid stuff, if they're focusing on cold leads, digital marketing stuff, all the stuff that you probably are gonna heap on them, you are holding them back and you're giving them low level garbage stuff to deal with, cold crappy leads.

they are not going to be able to grow quickly your business or scale and they're not going to be able to win. So they have to have the right training and the right growth engines that we would help them install. Second, they have to have the right comp structure. If they don't have the right compensation, compensation is incentive. Compensation is motivation for the right candidates, people that don't hate money, that are salespeople.

And if the comp structure is off, they will either get lazy and comfortable because you paid them too well, or they will get lazy and uncomfortable because they'll just get unmotivated because it's not working. ⁓ Or they just won't do the leading activities because you're trying to just make it commission only. There's so many mistakes with compensation and there is a formula for making this work. And we've seen this fail over and over and over again.

They are not motivated, but they are the right personality for this. You designed the role incorrectly, and you probably designed the financial compensation wrong, and that's on you. The third thing you have to get dialed in is accountability. They have to be accountable. If they're not accountable, if you're not, if you are not able to guide them and see where they're stuck and where there's drop-off in their sales flow or in the pipeline, if you can't see it,

They probably aren't seeing it either. And so they will keep doing the same dumb stuff, getting the same dumb result, and you will both be frustrated. And they will give up on this idea of selling property management, and you will give up on the idea. And there's, even before we get to all of these challenges, the three fits for hiring, the three keys to BDM success, there's some fundamental, foundational ingredients for the business that we help clean up that come even before that, where you have to have the right target audience,

A lot of property managers don't have this dialed in. They don't have the right target, which means they're targeting people incorrectly. means probably they're doing digital cold lead marketing, they're doing ads, they're spending a bunch of money. And most companies spend 20 to 30 % of their top line revenue just to bring in leads. And so they're wasting money there and have bad strategy there. The other piece to this is ⁓ you have to have the right

You have to have the right product. A lot of you think you're selling property management and nobody gives a shit about property management. Nobody wants to buy it. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, man, I'm so excited to buy something today. And somebody says, what is it? What is it, Jason? my gosh, I'm so excited to go buy property management today. You are selling the wrong product. And if you're selling to the wrong audience,

and attracting the wrong owners and the cheapos and the accidentals and all the owners that you don't want because you're doing the wrong tactics and then you're selling the wrong product. Then the third thing is you also probably have the wrong offer and the wrong pricing. And so this is stuff we have to get dialed in. It's foundational. I've never had somebody come to me that had those three ingredients dialed in. We have to get those three dialed in first. Then we dial in the three fits.

Then we dial in the three keys to BDM success. This is the stuff we would come out and help you get done. And we can do it fast because we've done this hundreds of times. We could do this. I've been running DoorGrow for a decade, almost two decades now, almost two decades, over a decade and a And we have expertise in helping people get this stuff dialing quickly. So,

That would be the first part of this. Now, if you're gonna go out and do this yourself, you're then gonna, you get a BDM. All of these things are dialed in. For some reason, you magically figured this all out on your own through trial and error. The next piece is now you've got to pay this person a commission, some sort of commission. And then you're gonna have to spend money on some sort of base. And you've got all of these different things that you've gotta get dialed in correctly. And if you have this done, then you'll probably be adding doors and then,

It'll be working. Here's what how we set up the door machine so that we can take over all this for you. So you'll pay door grow, you'll pay door grow a commission, you'll pay for each door that's added off the first month's rent. You'll pay ⁓ base salary or base dollar amount to door grow ⁓ each month. And as part of that base, we offset

a good portion of that by giving you access to our super system level of our mastermind, which includes all the systems you're going to need in order to scale your business. call the super system and you get access to the in-person events and the cohort and all the amazing people that are in our program. You're then also going to pay instead of paying, spending money on marketing, because you're not going to have to pay for leads and do stupid digital, cold lead, whatever advertising.

Our salesperson is going to be trained in doing this effectively and we'll be generating warmer leads that have a higher close rate. We will handle all that. so DoorGrow residualy will get 20 % of the management fee. Instead of spending 20%, 30 % like a lot of businesses do on your top line revenue, just to acquire new customers and to do digital marketing or ads, you'll spend 20 % of the management fee, which is way less.

For a lot of you, might be if average rent's 2K in a lot of areas throughout the US, your management fee maybe is 10%, which is, or worse, which is typical. ⁓ We'll help you install a better pricing model than that. But you're doing something like that and you're probably getting then $200 on the door. You're making a lot of money on other things, maintenance, whatever, but $200 for the management fee and then door grows, percentage would be 40 bucks, it'd be 20%.

And so $40 and originally designed this so we grow as you grow and this is, you know, a partnership is forever, but we put a cap on it to make this even more enticing. It drops off each door in the door machine that you add that 20 % dies or drops off. So you get a hundred percent of it at the 36 month mark. So three years in it drops off. So that puts a cap on what door grow can make with you depending on how much the BDM can add each year.

And so that caps our upside, which is better for you to make this even sweeter. And so there's a relationship. There's more details to it than that. We'd be happy to send you the offer doc if you're interested in this offer. ⁓ Really who we're looking for generally are 500 or plus companies that have a healthy team, healthy culture, will help you get these initial things cleaned up. You'll pay. ⁓

Okay, we won't mention all the specifics on the dollar amounts, but this is how this works financially. Same thing you would probably have to pay towards a BDM. You'll pay the door girl and we will take care of this for you and growth. This is a good fit for those of you that you have the money right now to go hire somebody and spend money, maybe five grand, six grand a month on a person ⁓ to hire somebody, then financially you probably could afford to do this and it would make sense. If that's not you right now,

and then this is probably not a fit for you. Anything else you want to say about the Dormachine?

So don't just...

if you can afford five or six.

to that. Sure. one. Number two.

No, it's not only this may be a fit for some smaller companies as well. So doesn't mean hey, you know, don't have 500 doors yet. Therefore, I can't do it. You can still do this. It might be a fit for you. I would see if you would benefit from a conversation with our sales team on that to just kind of learn more about it, get more information, get

some of the specifics of the numbers and see, know, hey, what is pressing the easy button on growth actually worth for you? Because your role in this, we handle all of the front end of your business. So growing the business is no longer something that you need to think about or worry about at all. And if you're not sure if this is a fit for you,

if you're wanting to get those first three foundational things dialed in with us, which is the targeting, the product, and the offer. And if you wanna meet with us, we have a three session thing where we will work with you one-on-one, help you get these three things dialed in over three sessions, which is the foundation, and help you figure out what your roadmap and plan might be. It might be joining one of our

different tiers of our mastermind. It might be getting some help with hiring. It might be getting into this door machine. But we have a small, inexpensive offer for that where we will help you get those three things dialed in and help you roadmap the future to figure out what would be the best fit moving forward. We call that the PM Growth Leak Audit, where we audit the leaks that you have right now that are preventing your growth and help you see some of the blind spots that you can't even see

in your business right now, which is why it's been so hard for you to grow. And then we'll help you figure out what the next steps might be that would make the most sense based on what your constraints are related to budget, related to time, investment, whatever. And so reach out to us and just say, hey, I'd be really interested in that audit that Jason mentioned on the podcast. Cool. Anything else we should add? That's it.

this might be for you, it's probably worth at least a...

also say that this will not be for everyone or this will not be for you right now. It might be a later thing instead of a now thing. It might be an everything. You might be able to handle everything all yourself and that's okay. ⁓ What I would also say too is keep in mind that a lot of times people kind of peter out on doing sales after a while.

This is something that will continue to grow the business for you because it doesn't depend on you at all. aren't involved in it. The reality is a lot of our clients, once we help them figure out growth and we get stuff out of them, they start growing stuff themselves. They realize and figure out eventually they either don't enjoy doing the sales or it's creating a really strong constraint in the business. At best, if you're running a company and you are the salesperson, you will always

be a shitty part-time salesperson at best. You don't have full-time bandwidth. And if you don't have a growth problem, then this isn't even relevant to you at all. So if you're having some challenges, then reach out to us. We have a proven track record. We're the best in the world at helping people do this. We've been doing this for almost two decades now. And we can help you get this dialed in. And we want to see you win. We're looking for really good, awesome people.

and humans to be part of our stuff, especially for the door machine and the cohort really of the caliber of people that we've already gotten into the door machine. These are going to be the coolest people. So the cohort aspect of this is another plus. think it's probably the best upside is that you get to be around other people that are experiencing the door grow magic and they're buying, they're growing and they're scaling.

and they're doing things in a different way than the entire industry. And that's what we bring to the table at DoorGrow. So if you want to get your company to not have all the same blind spots and constraints and you want to start innovating your business, reach out to us at DoorGrow. You can check us out at doorgrow.com, schedule a call with us, have a chat. If you'd like a free training on how to get unlimited leads for free, text the word leads to 512-648-4608.

Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners by going to doorgro club.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas, and to learn about our offers, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgro.com slash subscribe. And if you found this episode even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. Until next time. Remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together.

and you can do that with the door machine for sure. All right, bye everyone.

Recently, one of our clients, Derek Morton, shared an incredible story from a networking event where he transformed his booth into a blackjack table to illustrate that property owners shouldn't "gamble" with their rentals. When a prospect tried to pressure Derek into matching a competitor's price by a mere half-percent, Derek firmly refused, explaining that he refuses to build a portfolio around owners willing to jump ship over such tiny margins.12 In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the vital importance of being selective about who you serve and why taking on "bad" owners creates a "cycle of suck" that destroys profitability and personal happiness.

Jason and Sarah explore the foundational mistake of targeting everyone, explaining that identifying exactly who you want to serve is the first step in building a business. They apply the "Pumpkin Plan" principle of clearing rot from a business to prevent bad clients from spreading negativity throughout an entire operation.345 The discussion also highlights how poor client filtering leads to a "cycle of suck" featuring bad properties, bad tenants, and bad reviews, which ultimately traps owners in a "race to the bottom" on price. By being picky, business owners can significantly lower operational costs and achieve elite profit margins, sometimes reaching 60% to 90%. Finally, the hosts introduce a three-day initiative designed to help entrepreneurs diagnose why their growth has stalled and how to pivot toward attracting "good" clients rather than just "any" clients.

You'll Learn

[01:08] - The Blackjack Table Lesson: A story about a client using a blackjack-themed booth to teach owners not to "gamble" with rentals and why he refuses price-shoppers. [05:50] - The Pumpkin Plan & The Cycle of Suck: Applying Mike Michalowicz's "Pumpkin Plan" to clear out "rot" and avoid the downward spiral of bad properties and tenants. [07:46] - Maximizing Profit Margins through Selectivity: How being picky lowers operational costs and enables elite profit margins between 50% and 90%.4 08:30 - Diagnosing Stagnant Growth: Introducing a new three-day team-led initiative to help stalled businesses identify why they are stuck and create a fix. [11:34] - Avoiding the "Property Management" Product Trap: Why selling "property management" is the wrong approach and the importance of a unique offer for your target audience.

Quotables

"If we took on every owner and if we took on the wrong owners, we would no longer be happy, and we would no longer love what we do. And this would become a real pain in the ass."

"If you target everyone, you are guaranteed to be miserable in your own business."

"You can only have a ridiculously good margin in your business if you're picky about your clients."

Resources

DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind

DoorGrow Academy

DoorGrow on YouTube

DoorGrowClub

DoorGrowLive

Transcript

Jason Hull (00:00)

Alright, five, four, three, two, Alright.

What was that? Something broke. Five, four, three, two, one. Hans goes, smash. All right, Hans, out of here. We have a dog in, two dogs in here. All right, we're going to try that over again. Five, four, three, two, one. All right, I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. This is Sarah Hull, the COO of DoorGrow, co-owner. And we're the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential.

property management entrepreneurs on the planet. We're the best on the planet. So for over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to build the industry, transform it. There's a dog walking around on my feet right now. Change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management.

entrepreneurs when now let's get into the show. is awesome. I love when she brings the dogs in right before the show. He's like running into stuff like cables are falling down. I don't even know what I I'm gonna have to find what he did and try to fix it. I don't even know. Good times. All right. So what are we chatting about today? Sarah? I was going to share some good news that one of our clients

was messaging back and forth with me on the weekend. Derek Morton, he's out in Utah and he was at an event over this weekend and it was a really cool event. I wish I could have been there, but he, like everybody gets their booth, right? You get your booth and you have your setup and everybody hopefully comes over and you get some leads. That's not how Derek does things.

at all. So Derek gets a booth and turns it into, I think it was Blackjack. And there, I mean, he had the the dice and the table set up and he got a, ⁓ a, a card dealer and he had the chips, but the chips were like customized with his brand name. And the whole thing looks amazing. It was, it was really awesome.

And the theme was, don't gamble with your rentals. Right? So obviously... Very cute, very clever. Yeah. One of the way more interesting booths at an event. Yeah. Come play blackjack. Now, it's not gambling. That's not legal, but they did have blackjack, so you can come play hand, but it wasn't gambling. And there was a lot of interest at the booth. There was a lot of excitement at the booth, which is great.

And there was a property owner that was at their booth, Derek was there, and the guy was saying, yeah, you know, I've got five units and I work with this other property manager now. Derek said, yeah, that's great. It's awesome. Like, how are things going? And he's like, yeah, things are going well. Like, I like the property manager. That's great. And I guess he was expecting to be sold too, because then he was kind of like, and so, you know, what would you do for me then? And Derek said, well,

Like, you know, this is kind of what we do. This is what we offer. And the guy was like, all right, well, how much do you charge? And he, you know, was telling him, hey, you know, we've got some plans you can kind of choose from. And the guy said, well, you know, my current property manager, they charge, I think it was like 7%, whatever it was, who knows. Let's call it 10 % because that's really common in the industry. So, all right, well, my property manager charges 10%. And essentially it was, you know, what are you going to do for me? And.

Derek goes, yeah, this is where we sit. And the guy goes, you're not going to try to beat it. He's like, no, no, we're not. He goes, let me ask you something. If you're at 10 % right now, if we charged, if we did like 9 and 1 percent, would you switch over to us? And the guy said, yeah, yeah, I would do that. I switch over. And he goes, for 9 and 1 half percent, yeah, I'll switch over. Yeah. And Derek said, yeah, and that's exactly the type of owner that we don't take on.

Okay. The guy was flabbergasted, not expecting that at all. He said, well, you know, listen, with all due respect, you know, I just met you. We're having a conversation. You're at my booth. You know, you're playing some blackjack. That's great. If you're ready and willing to dump the property manager that you work with over half of a percentage, which ends up being like five bucks in a 20 minute conversation, then where is that going to lead me?

So pretty much anyone that undercuts that price, you're just going to jump ship. didn't even try to do anything and you're already ready to jump ship over half of a percent. He said, yeah, we don't take on owners like that. That's not when we build our portfolio around. And that was such a cool message for me to get. I love that. ⁓ And I was really excited that that's just Derek.

A lot of people would be like, well, you we don't really do that. Derek is like, yeah, that's exactly the type of owner that we don't take on. He's so, he's not like, doesn't, yeah, he doesn't, he pull punches at all, which is great. That's why we like him. But really, he said to me, you know, one of the things that we've done really well, and they're a sizable company. And he said, but we, we're happy. We love what we do.

And really that's a testament to the owners that we work with. And if we took on every owner, and if we took on the wrong owners, we would no longer be happy and we would no longer love what we do. And this would become a real pain in the ass. And that's just not what I'm looking for. Because I love what we do. And part of that is being able to say no to the people who aren't a fit. Yeah, I love it. I mean, before you start a business, the very first thing you need to figure out is who do I actually want to work

Who do I want to serve? That's the foundation of the business and a lot of times people are like everyone. And if you target everyone you are guaranteed to be miserable in your own business. That means you're not going to filter out anyone. You're going to just let everybody in. Really good book on the subject is The Pumpkin Plan by Mike McCallewitz and he talks about this principle. He's been on my podcast twice. Our podcast now.

So, but he's been on here twice. And he's also spoken at our DoorGrowth live conference and sharing this principle is basically, you know, if you allow everything to be in your business, then your business is gonna be full of rot and rot spreads. It compares it to a pumpkin patch. You have to clear out the moldy crows pumpkins or the rot spreads. And ⁓ Derek, you know, he's smart because...

he probably at some point had some of that in his business, was like, this isn't worth it, this isn't the type of people I wanna deal with, they're not treating my team and my staff appropriately or kind. some people that's not the business they wanna run, if you're one of our clients, that's what we coach you, is get really clear on who you wanna serve and filter out everybody else. Because if you take on bad clients, it gets you into the cycle of suck that we teach, which means.

you then have bad properties, which leads to having bad tenants, which means then you have bad reviews, and then you attract more bad clients. And then you end up in this weird race to the bottom with everybody else trying to compete on price. And that's the worst place to be competing. And so you can be unique in the marketplace by being the best, being picky about the clients you take on, and your operational costs are going to be a lot lower. So...

Derek has much lower operational costs than most property management companies because he doesn't take on the really difficult owners. He makes sure that the owners are willing to put the work in and the money into the properties to make sure they're taken care of well, to make sure tenants are taken care of well. And that makes it a lot easier for them to do their job as a property manager. And so it doesn't matter if he could have like,

200 more doors if you would be making half the margins or even the same margins. I had a client with 600 doors that was on one of these podcast episodes. When he first came to me, he had 600 doors and was making zero dollars. And so if you have bad doors, bad owners, you have to have a lot more staff and then it's really easy to lose all your money and not be very profitable. And we've gotten some of our clients up to 50 % profit margin. Sarah had 60 to 90 % profit margin.

in her business. You can only have ridiculously good margin in your business if you're picky about your clients. You have to get rid of bad clients and bad properties. Yeah. Or just say no to them in the first place. Right. Yeah. So if you're wondering, I think this actually worked out way better. I did not plan this, but the, what are we calling it? The growth blueprint. that what we're calling it? We're calling it the PM.

growth audit, I believe. No, we're not calling it a audit. Well, I know that. I thought it was a blueprint. Nope, we're not calling it a blueprint. We're calling it the PM growth leak audit. It's not when we're not going to call it an audit. Well, that's what I have programmed all of our tools to talk about it as. Then we get to reprogram that because... Because blueprints are overdone. Nobody wants a blueprint anymore.

So people want to pay maybe for an audit. So I don't know. But whatever you want to call it, challenge, audit, blueprint. But it's to help you find the leaks in your business related to growth. All right. So where I was going with that, whatever we decide to call this thing is stay tuned, I guess. OK. TBD. But ⁓ that's going to be something that we end up launching very soon, where you'll work one-on-one with

someone from our team and they will take you through. It'll be a three day thing. Dogs trying to jump up on my lap. All right, why not? Come here, Hans. Come here. Come here. Okay. All right. He's all the way up here. All right. Okay. For those of you who are watching the video, this is Hans.

Hi, where are you going? This is awkward because I'm sitting on a ball. Whatever we call this, you'll get to work with someone on our team for three days to help you figure out why growth has been stagnant or not moving as fast as you want it to be. Because a lot of people are totally stuck and they're just stalled out and stuck at the same point and they might fluctuate.

gain a little, lose a little, gain a little, lose a little. And there's a lot of people that are also, they want more growth and it's just not happening exactly the way that they would like it to happen. They're getting some growth, but they're not getting the amount of growth that they are really hoping for or looking for. And we have identified a few patterns. So we've decided, hey, let's help people figure out why their growth is just...

stalled. Maybe the growth stalled. I don't know. We'll call it something. ⁓ stay tuned for that because I think probably by the time this airs that will be live. That will be launched. So if you're wondering why growth might be stalled or stuck in your business and how you can grow more and get more clients and the good clients, not just any clients, but the good clients because that's what's important.

then reach out to us because by the time you hear this episode, unless you're watching it live, if you're watching it live, we can't help you quite yet, but stay tuned for like a week. Give us like a week. And if everyone else, when you're watching the replay, when it launches, then if that is you, reach out to our team and we will walk you through it. And you'll walk away with a plan and you'll know exactly what's going wrong and what to do to fix it. Okay.

I'm being tongue mauled by this dog. Okay, Huns. All right, you're going down. No, Captain, you can't come up. Okay, fine. Come here. Hi. Where's the other one? the other one. Okay. Okay. He looks so sad to I don't know what else to say about this. All right, so next time we will not bring the dogs in here.

This is not effective. Not effective. All right. So but possibly entertaining. So if you liked if you liked seeing the dogs just like comment on this dogs and then see he'll have to do more of it. I don't know. You let me know. You'd be the judge. Yeah. All right. Well with that I think the message today then is you've got to figure out how to be unique in your market because

If you're the same as everybody else, they might as well just go with the cheapest company. that is, you know, nobody also, it's important to realize nobody also wakes up in the morning and goes, I want to buy property management today. Property management is the wrong product. And this is one of the things in this challenge audit, whatever we're going to call it thing is that we will help reveal to you, we'll help you expose and we'll help you make sure that you have a really good offer.

you have a really good understanding of your target audience because without those things really dialed in from the beginning, you're going to have a less healthy business. And so a lot of people have a blind spot around all of this and they just go out there and try and get clients, try and grow their business. And they wonder why it's so hard, but it's because you're selling the wrong thing and you've started the wrong business. And so, and this stuff is very easy to clean up and we can help you with that. Cool. All right. So.

If, my gosh, dogs are just bumping into me. If you have felt stuck or stagnant and you want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at doorgrow.com for free training on how to get unlimited free leads. Text the word leads to 512-648-4608. Also, you can join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. And if you want tips, tricks,

ideas and to learn about our offer subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe and if you found this a little bit helpful don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review we'd really appreciate it until next time remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone so let's grow together bye everyone

I can't this.

I don't know. We're stuck on the podcast forever.

How about the red end phone call button?

Today, Jason and Sarah Hull attended a high-level mastermind in Boise, Idaho, where they were surrounded by top entrepreneurs, learning firsthand how proximity to the right people can completely shift your mindset and business trajectory.

In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason Hull and Sarah Hull discuss the power of in-person masterminds, why one insight from the right room can change everything, and how stepping out of your environment is essential for real transformation and business growth.

You'll Learn

[00:01] Introduction and Purpose of the Episode [03:10] Inside the Boise Mastermind Experience [06:00] Why the Right Room Changes Everything [10:20] The Power of In-Person Transformation [20:30] The Problem With Growing Behind a Screen [32:20] Thinking Bigger and Expanding Vision [44:10] Invitation to Join the DoorGrow Mastermind

Quotables

"You don't need that much, you need one thing from the right person, and that is really enough to pay for the whole year of the program, which is incredible."

" "Transformation comes by getting you in person and changing the business owner."

"If you don't change your environment, that's the challenge is you if you if you're always in your office, you're always behind a screen, you're always on your phone, whatever, that environment is the environment you're already in, you have to change the environment in order to change the person."

Resources

DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind

DoorGrow Academy

DoorGrow on YouTube

DoorGrowClub

DoorGrowLive

Transcript

Jason Hull (00:01)

Five, four, three, two, one. All right, we are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses.

We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. Okay, so in today's episode, we are gonna be chatting about what, Sarah? We just went to...

weird place to go, but we voluntarily went to Boise, Idaho. What? Boise is a cool place. Boise is a cool place. It's but chilly temperature wise. Okay. Affirmative. It's better than... I'm not going to start ripping on places. This is not a good precedent to set. All of your places, if you're listening, are awesome, including... I think Boise is super cool. It's a beautiful area. Beautiful area.

Okay, Sarah is not a fan of Boise apparently, but I like Boise. So my two favorite places that I was thinking of living were Boise and Austin, and we ended up in Boise. We did not end up in Boise. mean, we ended up in Austin. That's what I meant. We ended up in Austin. All right, can we move forward? so we went to an event in Boise. Russell Brunson. Cool, Russell Brunson's headquarters is in Boise.

So we went there and we are part of his inner circle, which is a $50,000 a year mastermind. And we're always trying to learn from the best. think he is probably the most savvy internet marketer on the face of the earth right now, or at least one of the top. And he's quite brilliant. And he's just a really good human and he attracts really, really cool entrepreneur, entrepreneurial people, like the people that he curates.

So the people in the mastermind make it way cooler. Like as one of the ladies said when we were there, she's like, I thought Russell's cool, but you're all cooler. yeah. She said, I joined for Russell. I She said, I only joined for Russell, but you know what? You guys are like so awesome. Like you guys make this way better than I even thought. And she said, don't tell Russell I said that. But I'm kind of here for you guys now. Yeah. All right.

Cool, so, and we got to hang out and they split us up into rooms and they put kind of a, I don't know, like a leader or a coach over each room. And we had Annie Grace who had been in a previous mastermind with me with Alex Sharpen. And she wrote a really awesome book called This Naked Mind, built this empire helping people get free from the addiction of alcohol and doing something very different than what's typically done that's been very, very effective.

And she's been very close to Russell and learned a lot of really cool stuff and she scaled her business very large. And so it was great to have her leading the room. So first we had this badass, Annie Grace leading the room. And then in our room, we also had Myron Golden, which if any of you have ever followed any of his stuff, like this guy helps people, tenets their businesses just by helping them shift their money mindset, help them shift their thing about fees and stuff. He doesn't target property management business owners.

We haven't even paid money to Myron yet, but we got to hang out in the room with him and he does some extremely high ticket coaching. And so it was really cool to have him in the room, give feedback. And we also, who else do we have in the room? Dr. Benjamin Hardy. Awesome guy, right? Yeah. So Ben Hardy. So if you ever heard of the book 10 X is easier than two X or who not how, or all these, he's written a lot of books.

Science of scaling his latest one really awesome time as a tool He was in the room giving hanging out with us as well. We were hanging out with Richmond din he is and runs an eight figure coaching bit or business to helping people with tiny challenges and like there's just there was so many there's another guy that has a VA company I think he said he told me he's doing 50 million a year. So we were hanging out in the room with cool people

and we got to present and share and then we got to get feedback from others, which was really awesome. So it was just really cool. So what do we want to tell them about this? So one of the things that we have known for a really long time is being in rooms like that is just so powerful and it's really it's invaluable. Yeah. Because one little thing that you can take away, just one, you don't need a list, you don't need, you know, notebooks.

You don't need all this. Oh, I know what to do and I've got 15 things That I'm gonna do this week and then after that I've got the next 98 on my list like that's probably too much You don't need that much you need one thing from the right person and that is really enough to pay for the whole year of Program which is incredible. Yeah

It's connected us with such amazing incredible growth minded very outward focused People who are looking to change the world and have an impact and do amazing things. They're not you know, just in it because They want to be they're not just in it because they go, you know, I guess I can make some money Yeah, like they're they're looking to really have an impact and make it

tremendous change in this world and being connected with people like that at events like this is so incredible and every single time that we go to one of these events I never know what we're going to get out of it before we go. I just know that it's going to be amazing. So I don't go into it

Looking for a specific thing. I don't go into it thinking okay I need to figure out how to do this or I need this answer or I need to do this thing or talk to this person or get this you know answer to this question or you know this Strategy that I'm looking for I never go into it with anything most of the events that we've gone to We go into it Sometimes not even feeling like we need anything Yeah, lot of times we just go

And we go, I don't really think I need anything. think we're pretty solid. Let's just be in the room. And even when you go into it with that mindset, man, you still get stuck. You still, you still, go, man, I didn't even know that I needed that. And I'm so glad that we were there. I'm so glad that we got it. And sometimes it's just being around people who think the same way that you do or think even bigger.

than you do because if you think, hey, you know, I've made it, right? Like we all have that moment in life where we go, I'm like, made it, I'm good, I make this much, I can take care of my family, I can, you know, do the things that I want and have the things that I want and, you know, have this lifestyle that maybe is even better than you had ever imagined. And sometimes we go, okay, I've arrived, I'm here, I've made it. And then you get into a room like that and you go, wow, there's so much more.

There's so much more that I can do and there's so much more that I can give and there's so much more that I can be. Yes. Amazing. So good. Yeah. So I've been in a lot of different masterminds. and I together have been in several and yeah, being around the right people is what it takes to level up. Your business is the sum of the five entrepreneurs or

business owners that you spend the most time with basically. And you need to be in the right room. And so we've decided, know, we recently, one of our mentors, Aaron Stokes, was, he founded ShopFix Academy, he coaches auto repair shops. He was very generous and we worked with him and he taught us a lot of stuff. He recently passed and he crashed his plane, which was really sad. I really had a hard time kind of.

coming to grips with that and being in Boise was helpful for that. I got to share with everybody some of the stuff with our group that I had learned from Aaron, which was awesome because Aaron's stuff was really great. I shared about the importance of believing in people and hope and how that actually affects your clients more than your tactics and how I rarely end a coaching call without telling the person, hey, I believe in you, you can do this. And that's from Aaron.

And so I shared a little bit of some of the things Aaron taught and it was awesome because it was nice to see the caliber of people that we were in the room with resonate with it and see Myron Golden thanking me for sharing that and other people that, you know, just saying, hey, this is true. This is awesome stuff. We have decided to shift our own mastermind to being more in-person. Why? So.

The challenge is most property managers are stuck trying to grow from behind a screen. They're watching webinars, they're sitting on Zoom calls, they're collecting PDFs maybe that they'll never read, and they're wondering why nothing ever changes. Have you ever been there? I've been there. Things didn't really start to happen for me until I started getting in the room. Now, there's a lot of stuff you can learn and things that can happen digitally, but what we found is that when people are in person, something shifts.

Transformation is what's needed to grow the business. As Erin would say, if you change the owner of the business, you change the shop. Fix the owner, fix the shop. So if we fix the property management business owner, if we can trans, and that's been our mission statement, our mission statement at DoorGrow is to transform property management business owners and their businesses. But we know that

Transformation comes by getting you in person and changing the business owner. We just don't see it happen digitally. just, it doesn't work as well. So we started onboarding all of our clients in person and that's been huge. It's been huge in so many ways, getting deep into their business, identifying a ton of problems that they would hide behind a screen and not share, getting real about them, getting transparent. And so there's just been big shifts with that. Now we're shifting to our

activities and our events being in person. And so if you don't change your environment, that's the challenge is you if you if you're always in your office, you're always behind a screen, you're always on your phone, whatever, that environment is the environment you're already in, you have to change the environment in order to change the person. And so the people around you, they aren't moving fast enough, they don't think big enough. And nobody's holding you to the standard that you know you're capable of. And so the door grow mastermind that we've

curated and created has amazing people. And so we want these people to be around each other, rubbing shoulders, getting to know each other, creating friendships, finding mentors, finding heroes, people they look up to. I've had people that I looked up to like Aaron and they changed our business. And so this mastermind, it's about getting serious. It's about coming out, spending time here in Austin with us, getting multiple times a year.

working on your business. So we just created an announcement for our spring intensive, where we're gonna go deep into our clients' businesses. If you wanna be part of this, if you wanna sample this, you wanna experience some of this, then reach out to us. You're welcome to come hang out with us. We'd love for you to get a taste, but you show up, you get in the room with other owners that are actually doing the work and you leave with a plan, momentum, relationships.

that are going to change you. They're going to change how your business goes. And all of the cool stuff we've had, it's all there still. Like the weekly calls on the online community, our new DoorGrow Hub app, which is amazing. All the trainings inside of DoorGrow Academy, that's all there, but that's really exists to keep you executing between your trips to Austin, where we grow and help you figure out how to grow your business. And those things are support system, which is nice, but it's not the main event.

And so that's the big shift that we're doing in the mastermind.

people walk out of that room different. And people walk out of that room with connections and friendships that will just last. And it's because you're surrounding yourself with your people. When you find your people, there is something that you can just feel it. You can feel the energy in the room. There's something that ignites inside of you. I was sitting in that room, and this is not our first Russell event, but I was sitting in that room and I was going, man, these are my people.

This is like, this is where we need to be. Yeah. And talking to Benjamin Hardy and going, yeah, you're right. I have no idea why I'm thinking 10 million. You're right. 10 million is a stupid number. That's, that's like child's play. You're right. I should be going for a hundred million. I have no idea why I wasn't going for a hundred million, but now there's like a clear path and a clear, reason to do it. And

I would not have been thinking 100 million is a reasonable number for us if I didn't end up in that room with Benjamin Hardy. Yeah, let's go. Let's do it. Right. OK. I mean, the impact that we get that we can have by doing that will be awesome. And, you know, that was a big block for me. I realize I'm like, I don't care enough about the money.

but I care about impact and that gets me excited and money is your ability to create impact. That's how you have reach. So let me know if, listen to this and let us know, are you stuck in this cycle? Are you exhausted, overwhelmed, stuck as the bottleneck in your own business? Do you feel like you can't keep up? You no longer love or even like the business that you built.

Maybe you're spending too much time doing admin work, playing catch up while your competitors are signing the clients you should have. Have you promised your family next year will be different? Maybe we'll have that vacation, but nothing changes. Do you start projects with great intentions but struggle to follow through without accountability? Are you tired of trying to figure everything out alone, which as I say is the slowest path to growth? While your competitors seem to have all the support and figure it out, well, you're not alone.

That's what most property managers, they're saying things like, I want to grow, but I'm the bottleneck. Everything depends on me. I need to either sell the business or move on or make this sustainable. Finally, I want to add more doors, but I'm overwhelmed. They don't know where to start. If I don't solve this, I'll stay stuck and growth will stall or worse. I'll start losing doors and clients. And maybe you experienced that. So this is stuff that we tackle in our mastermind. So we'll help you get the business going. We'll help you get the business cleaned up. So

I want you to step into your future real quick and then we'll wrap up. Just imagine this picture yourself. You're walking into a room in Austin, Texas, full of other property management business owners. These aren't tire kickers or people collecting info. These are operators who got on a plane because they're serious about building something real. These aren't people going to a property management conference just to go to the bar and check out from their life, right? At the hotel.

These people got on a plane because they're serious. And you sit down at a table with owners, they manage maybe 50, 200, 500 plus doors, maybe someone a thousand, right? Someone shares how they added 30 doors last month, maybe using our Realtor intro engine, another owner walks you through how they restructured their pricing and add another 25K in their monthly revenue. A third pulls you aside at the evening mixer and says, I was exactly where you were eight months ago. Here's what changed everything for me. You can't.

get that on a Zoom call. You can't get that in a Facebook group. You can't get that through a video or training. That kind of moment changes everything. Michael Poon, he had that experience before he added 40 units in July. Last year, Ken Harmon had it when he went from zero to 105 doors in six months by putting in just one or two hours a day. This is what happens when you stop trying to figure everything out alone and you step into a room that makes it harder to play small like Sarah was talking about.

So now picture this, you're back at home, three days after our spring intensive, you're executing your 90 day plan with total clarity, your accountability partner texts you, hey, I just hit my goal for the week, how are you doing? You made that friend or that connection, and you realize you're not just building a business, you're building relationships that are gonna last for years, and these have to be built in person. So remember that feeling, because that future starts right now today when you decide.

to stop just watching from behind a screen and you come spend time with us and show up in person. All right, so if this is interesting, reach out to us. can check us out at doorgrow.com. Anything else you want to add? All right. It's coming up in May. It's coming up in May. coming up in May. So by the time this episode airs, unless you're watching it live, it...

But don't fret, we've got another one coming up in October. So this year we're doing two plus our DoorGor Live. So it'll be May in October plus DoorGor Live in October. Then next year we're gonna start vacating through. And we onboard new clients every month in person. You'll come hang out with us. right, so, all right, if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant, you wanna take your business to the next level, reach out to us at doorgor.com for free training on how to get unlimited leads for free. Text the word leads.

to 512-648-4608. Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas, and to learn about our offers and how we can help you, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on wherever you found this.

We'd really appreciate it. Until next time, remember, the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.