Flames and poetry - what poetry tell us about the Los Angeles fires, the pleasure the poet John Keats took in reading - a poem-letter to an imaginary estate agent, and magical language. To explore all this McMillan is joined by poetry writers and poetry lovers.

Ian's guests:

Fred D'Aguiar is a British-Guyanese poet who lives and teaches in Los Angeles - he shares a powerful new commission which bears witness to the Los Angeles fires, and asks how we might depict and talk about fire in an age of rising temperatures.

What does it mean to be a tenant, or an artist in residence in someone else's house - at a time when it is harder to buy houses than in the past?

Edward Wilson-Lee's new book 'The Grammar of Angels - A Search for the Magical Powers of Language' explores the attraction (and the rejection) of language that has a powerful effect, or casts a spell on us - including the speech of angels and inscriptions on amulets. The book invites us to consider when sound is more powerful than sense, and why that might have concerned our ancestors.