Today's guests are Foxman McCarthy-James and Justin Wright. Foxman is the Head Setter at Alta Climbing & Fitness and Alta Boulders in Arizona, while Justin is the Director of Routesetting at Edgeworks Climbing & Fitness in Washington. Between the two, they have over 25 years of setting experience and even more climbing experience. Together, they cofounded Vortex Routesetting, a company that provides setter development and training, competition management, and consultations. In this wide-ranging conversation, Fox, Justin and I talk about the rise in demand for setting consultations, the bottlenecks of setting education, and the numbers behind the scenes of the setting trade, from pay and workload to setter professional development. Justin and Fox offer their expertise and insights, demonstrating how all of those trends are more interlinked than perhaps previously thought. Our host is Holly Yu Tung Chen with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Strati Climbing and Trango.