Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

If your agency is still saying, "Sure, we can do that" to every client request, you're already in trouble.

AI isn't coming—it's here. And it's gunning for the order takers.

The agencies that survive won't be the button pushers. They'll be the problem solvers. The strategists.

Let's break down why the old "yes to everything" model is dead—and what to do instead.

The Old Way: Execution = Value

Back in the day, clients would come in with half-baked ideas, you'd build what they asked for, send an invoice, and move on.

That worked when execution was hard and specialized. But now?

AI can crank out ad copy, designs, blog posts—even full websites—in under 30 seconds.

If your agency's value is tied to deliverables, you're already replaceable.

The New Way: Sell Outcomes, Not Tasks

Here's what AI can't do:

• Diagnose the real problem.

• Challenge assumptions.

• Build trust and sell a bigger vision.

That's your edge.

Strategic agencies don't sell websites or ads anymore. They sell clarity. They sell outcomes. They lead the client to where they actually need to go.

Think about surgeons or lawyers. They don't ask, "So what do you want me to do today?" They diagnose. They prescribe. They lead.

Great agencies do the same.

Real Proof: Owners Who Made the Shift

Derek was stuck running a 7-figure agency that was plateauing. He and his team were working themselves into the ground for less and less money. Once he niched down and repositioned as a leader in his space, everything changed. Within a year, he scaled to eight figures.

Jack almost shut down his agency before using the Agency Playbook to get clarity, reposition, and dominate his niche. Today, he runs a multi-million-dollar business.

Carl stopped "doing" and started leading. Using our Foot in the Door approach, he landed a $100K cash deal plus a 20% royalty stream.

These aren't outliers. They're agency owners who stopped being order takers and started being authorities.

How to Make the Shift Without Burning It All Down

You don't need to fire all your clients and start from scratch. You just need to change how you show up.

Stop reacting. Start leading. Don't ask, "What do you want?" Instead, say, "Here's what you need, and here's the proven process to get it."

Get paid for clarity. The Foot in the Door (FITD) system shows you how to charge $2,500+ just for the initial strategy session. Because clarity is valuable—and it positions you as the authority from day one.

Audit your model. If you're stuck or unclear on what to fix next, the Agency Blueprint gives you a custom diagnostic so you know exactly where to focus.

Ready to stop being a doer and start being an advisor?

Grab the Foot in the Door System here and start getting paid just to pitch.

Or if you're not sure where the gap is, grab your Agency Blueprint here.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Which growth drivers are fueling your agency right now? For today's featured guest, the answer is clear: thought leadership. It's the single biggest driver consistently bringing his agency the best opportunities. While it can be difficult to separate genuine impact from vanity metrics, the deliberate effort to position both himself and his agency as industry experts has proven invaluable for growth.

But building that kind of authority doesn't happen by accident. It requires intentional work—stepping onto stages at conferences, showing up in interviews and podcasts, and, just as importantly, encouraging your team to create and share content of their own. In this conversation, he breaks down the strategies that help expand thought leadership beyond the founder, and why agency leaders must remember: expertise is a long game, one that compounds over time to deliver lasting results.

Chris Long is the VP of Marketing at Go Fish Digital, a full-service digital marketing agency specializing in SEO, paid media, and content marketing. Over the past 3–4 years, Chris has been leading the charge on marketing and sales for the agency, driving new business growth and experimenting with different channels to see what really works. Spoiler alert: it's not just ads or conferences—it's something much bigger.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Thought leadership as your agency's best growth lever.

• Scaling thought leadership beyond the founder.

• Building the right systems to encourage your team to create content.

• Why Content ROI takes patience.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

The Growth Lever Most Agencies Ignore: Thought Leadership

Recently, Chris has taken an experimental approach to his agency's growth, testing growth drivers like Google ads, LinkedIn ads, and conferences, and found that thought leadership consistently stood as the biggest growth drivers; one that couldn't be replicated. Forget chasing the latest ad hack or praying your next conference booth delivers ROI—what's consistently driven their biggest, best deals has been showing up as experts in their space.

However, thought leadership is hard to measure. It often looks like vanity metrics—views, impressions, shares. But when you zoom out, it's the stuff that actually moves the needle. The more the agency doubled down on creating content, sharing insights, and putting their expertise out there, the more deals they closed. Not just more deals but better ones, with stronger close rates.

If you're still waiting for the perfect ad funnel to save your pipeline, you might be missing the obvious. Start building your authority in public. Share your wins. Share what you know. Because thought leadership compounds, and that trust is what gets prospects off the fence.

Why Expertise is the Foundation

You can't fake thought leadership. It all starts with real expertise. In Chris' words, "the reason someone's going to choose an agency, especially as you start to sell larger deals, is they have to be convinced you're an expert in something."

That doesn't mean you need to be the everything agency. In fact, the opposite. It could be as narrow as being "the best B2B or SaaS web dev shop." The point is: prospects need to believe you've mastered your corner of the world. That foundation comes from who you hire, the culture you build, and how you innovate—whether that's through proprietary tools, processes, or just being damn good at your craft.

In the case of Go Fish, that expertise showed up in real wins (like when their founders innovated on Geico's site and saw traffic spike 2,000%). Those moments of innovation fueled content, which positioned the agency as leaders. And that cycle of expertise, innovation, and thought leadership became a growth engine.

Scaling Thought Leadership Beyond the Founder

In the early days, thought leadership was usually founder-driven. You're the face, the credibility, the spark. But as Chris points out, that won't scale. At a certain point, you need the team creating and sharing insights too.

For them, that meant encouraging everyone to post, write case studies, and share wins. Sometimes it was as simple as, "Hey, we crushed conversions on this client's landing page—let's write about it." By empowering their team, they kept thought leadership flowing, even as the founders had less time for it.

Thought leadership can't be a one-man show forever. As an agency grows, the founders have less time to spend on the day-to-day operations. If you want authority to scale with your agency, bake it into your culture. Train your team to see insights worth sharing. Make content creation part of the job, not an afterthought.

The Biggest Mistake: Not Sharing at All

So what do most agencies get wrong? They don't share anything.

Too many people assume, "Everything valuable has already been said." Or they think their insights aren't groundbreaking enough. But as Chris points out, "What's obvious to you isn't obvious to everyone else."

That's why simpley sharing SEO best practices on LinkedIn got him traction. What he thought was "table stakes" turned out to be news to his audience. And the more he shared, the more inbound leads followed.

If you're holding back because you don't think your perspective matters, think again. Your experience has value—even if it feels basic to you.

Building Systems for Thought Leadership

If you want your team to start sharing their knowledge, you have to get intentional. At Go Fish, they didn't just hope employees would write content—they built systems:

• Every new hire had to write two blog posts a year.

• They tracked contributions in their project management system.

• They created two career tracks: one managerial, one based on thought leadership as an individual contributor.

That last part is huge. By tying thought leadership part of promotions and career growth, they gave employees a real incentive to contribute. Chris himself went from manager (which he admits wasn't his strong suit) to a senior role via the thought leadership track.

The lesson here is that if you want consistent content, make it part of how you hire, measure, and promote. Don't just "encourage" thought leadership—bake it into the agency's DNA.

The Evolution of Content: From Blogs to Video

Back in the early 2010s, blogs were king. One of Go Fish's founders wrote a massive guide on reputation management on the Moz blog that spun up an entire new agency vertical. That was the play then.

Today, however, the game has shifted. According to Chris, video on LinkedIn and Twitter is where the biggest impact happens now. Video humanizes your agency. It takes the mystery away for prospects who are wondering: "Who would I be working with? Are they innovative? Do I trust them?"

Webinars have also proven effective—letting people go deeper on topics, showcase expertise, and generate leads from long-form content. But the principle stays the same: meet people where they are, with content that builds authority.

The Patience Tax: Why Content ROI Takes Years

With content creation, you can't expect results in six months.

Here's the brutal truth: content is a long game. To do content you can't think even on seeing results in six months. It may take years. Chris has gotten clients that thought about him when they needed an agency because they saw him speak at a conference two years prior. ROI doesn't always show up on a quarterly P&L—it compounds over years.

The same goes for video content. Rarely does someone listen to one episode and instantly buy. Instead, they binge for months or years before making a move. That's why consistency matters more than intensity. As Chris said: "I post every day, whether I feel inspired or not. It's about the habit."

If you're evaluating content success after three or six months, you're cutting yourself off too early. Play the two-year game. The deals waiting for you are bigger than the "quick wins" most agencies chase.

Consistency compounds. Virality is a bonus, not the goal.

Strong Opinions and Deep Dives Win Attention

So what type of content catches people's attention? On social media, where everyone seems to be shouting the same advice over and over, you can't be afraid to stand out.

Take a stance. Neutral content gets ignored. As Chris points out: "Strong takes do well because people either comment to agree or argue. Either way, the algorithm loves it."

Go deep. Technical, niche content might feel too in-the-weeds, but it builds trust. Posts dissecting patents, experiments, or tools often outperform fluff. You may not think that really long niche content could do well, but people will absolutely watch a three-hour tutorial that proves a creator's expertise—and will come out trusting them more.

This is the heart of thought leadership: demonstrating expertise in public. Clients don't want generalists. They want to see you know your stuff, inside and out.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Are you an agency owner chasing the $1 million mark, believing that milestone will finally transform your business? Today's featured guest once felt the same way—until he got there and discovered it was all a myth. Hitting seven figures looked like success on paper, but behind the scenes he was burning himself out just to keep things afloat. In this episode, he reveals the processes that helped him escape no man's land, the critical lessons he learned about hiring, and the one thing he would do differently if he had the chance to start over.

Justin Rashidi is the CEO and co-founder of SeedX, where he leads data-driven marketing strategy and operations. Justin never planned to start an agency, but what started as a tutoring gig in New York soon turned into a full-blown business. After getting past some common agency growth hurdles, he'll share what he's learned on overcoming no man's land, hiring, why he thinks like a SaaS founder when it comes to running his agency, and more.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Don't fall for the million-dollar myth.

• Why growing fast was a problem and how he would change it.

• Hiring? Don't go for the entrepreneur type.

• Getting beyond 'no man's land'.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

When "The Side Thing" Has the Potential to Become a Growing Business

Justin grew up in a family where being a doctor, lawyer, or engineer was the gold standard. Entrepreneurship wasn't even on his radar. After moving to New York and starting a tutoring company, he realized business was way more fun than he expected. That small company eventually led him into freelancing—websites, marketing, whatever clients needed.

The real turning point came when he and his now-wife recognized that the "side thing" they kept ignoring was actually worth building. Instead of just coasting from project to project, they doubled down and started turning Seedex into a functional, growing organization.

The Million-Dollar Myth

Hitting the million-dollar mark sounds like the dream milestone for agency owners. Justin admits he thought so too… until he actually got there three years into the business. In reality, it was one of the hardest stages of growth.

At that point, your agency looks successful on paper, but reality tells a different story. You don't have the capital to hire senior talent. Your team is probably junior and undertrained. Processes are shaky. And you—the founder—are working yourself into the ground to hold it all together.

Justin remembers that stage as "a form of hell" that helped him understand why many owners try to sell at one million. He was gaining weight, losing weekends, and burning out fast. Scaling too quickly without solid processes or proper capital can trap you in a worse spot than before.

Grow Slower, Build Stronger

Looking back, Justin sees one of the biggest problems for his agency was how fast they grew. If he could change anything, he would've slowed down growth. That doesn't sound sexy, but it's real. At the moment, it felt exciting to see his business grow so much. What he didn't know, however, was that scaling without processes or capital is like building a skyscraper on quicksand—it looks impressive until it collapses.

He recommends two key moves for agency owners chasing growth:

• Build strong processes first. Make sure you can consistently deliver client success before you pile on more clients.

• Secure working capital. Don't wait until you're desperate for cash to get financing. Get a line of credit while things look good—because once you actually need it, banks disappear.

This is one of those lessons that sounds boring… until you've lived through the chaos yourself.

Thinking About Hiring Entrepreneurs? Justin Says "Just Don't"

Another one of Justin's biggest realizations after hitting $1 million was that he had pushed the agency as far as his own hustle could take it. Suddenly, growth wasn't about what he could do—it was about what his team could do.

As he put it, "I got myself here, now I have to get the rest of the team here too." That's when he realized growth isn't about finding the right "how," it's about finding the right who.

That focus on hiring also came with hard lessons, Justin learned what makes an employee succeed or fail within an agency. He also learned the hard way: never hire entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs leave within 6–12 months to chase their own ventures. Instead, hire people who want to grow inside your company, who hold themselves to high standards, and who take ownership of improving processes.

Once you have those people, agency life gets a whole lot easier. You're no longer solving every problem yourself—you've got a team that can think, adapt, and solve without you micromanaging.

Beyond "No Man's Land"

Every agency owner eventually hits that "no man's land" stage—the space between $1M and true scale—where everything feels hard. For Justin, it didn't end with some big breakthrough moment. It faded slowly over time.

Piece by piece, things got easier: better operations, employees leveling up, hiring stronger talent, having more capital, and—maybe most importantly—understanding how a business actually functions. That compounding effect created stability. And while he wouldn't call it easy, he admits the business is way more enjoyable today than it was a few years ago.

Numbers Don't Lie

Which KPIs you pay attention to may differ depending on your particular market. When it comes to running SeedX today, Justin thinks like a SaaS founder and focuses a lot on contract retention and contract expansion.

He wants zero churn and contracts that expand over time. That's how you build a healthy, stable agency without constantly chasing short-term clients. On top of that, he keeps a close eye on profit margins - aiming for 20% and runs monthly reviews with a tight bookkeeping process.

For some, the more their agency grows the harder it is to maintain margins. In Justin's case, as his business has grown, their margins have expanded. Why? Because they got better at scoping projects and started moving upmarket to clients who pay properly for expertise.

The agency world is full of bad scoping, undercharging, and scope creep. Justin's team now tracks time, analyzes leakage, and runs post-project reviews to tighten estimates.

Raising Prices and Playing to Win

One of the most powerful lessons Justin learned once he started tracking these KPIs was the danger of undercharging. Once he was running profitably, he realized he should be charging some clients more, and at this point he was confident enough to go back to clients and renegotiate that rate. In the early days, fear drove pricing. He didn't think clients would pay more. Now he sees it differently.

If a prospect won't pay what it's worth, let them go. The client that undercut you will eventually realize they made a mistake—and when they come back into the market, they'll be ready to pay at the right price.

"It's like a magic $30K shows up," he says. Since you're running operations correctly and the time is already committed, that revenue drops straight to the bottom line. That's the power of pricing confidence.

So stop racing to the bottom. Raise your rates, deliver great work, and let the unprofitable clients filter themselves out.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Is your agency's strategy diversified enough to withstand sudden algorithm changes? Today's featured guest—an SEO veteran—learned this the hard way. While he focused on client work, his own website grew outdated. Then one Google update hit and overnight his agency lost 80% of its organic traffic, its main source of leads.

The agency eventually recovered, but not without leaving him with a powerful lesson: always invest in the three pillars of growth. In this episode, he shares his chaotic first encounter with SEO, the biggest lessons from a long career in the industry, and the "superpower" that helps him better understand and adapt to algorithm shifts.

Chris Raulf is the founder of Boulder SEO Marketing and Chris Raulf SEO & AI Consulting. With decades of experience in SEO, dating back to before Google was even called Google, Chris specializes in hyper-focused SEO and content marketing strategies. He's worked with clients from local startups to major national brands, helping them dominate organic search. Fun fact: Chris is dyslexic and considers it his SEO superpower.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• The big mistake that led him to a career in SEO.

• The day 80% of his organic traffic disappeared.

• Why he now invests in the three pillars of growth.

Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

From Big Mistake to a Full-Blown Career in SEO

Chris has been in the SEO game since before most of us knew it was a thing. Back in 1995, while working in Switzerland for an American company, he watched the birth of the search engine era. The US branch of the company created something called a "website" and hardcoded German text as images on it.

His first "SEO problem" was figuring out how search engines could read that German text. That curiosity grew into a passion, and eventually a full-blown career.

Fast forward to today, Boulder SEO Marketing is a hyper-focused SEO agency specializing in content strategies that win. But even with all that experience, Chris learned the hard way that no one is safe from the wrath of a Google core update.

The Day Organic Traffic Disappeared

In 2021, business was booming. Leads were rolling in purely from organic search. Then, overnight, a Google core algorithm update wiped out about 80% of their organic traffic.

Why did this happen? Outdated content. Their own site had gone stale while they focused on client work. For an agency that relied almost entirely on inbound search leads, it was like someone padlocked the front door.

Chris could have panicked, but after the initial shock, he collected himself and treated this crisis as an opportunity. He gave himself one weekend to create a comeback plan. The result was a proprietary approach he calls Micro SEO Strategies—laser-targeted content plays designed to quickly recover rankings and leads.

Two Pages That Saved the Agency

Chris rebuilt their inbound engine with just two key pieces of content:

• A location page targeting "Denver SEO" that shot straight to #1 in local search and started generating leads almost immediately.

• An SEO packages guide that became a go-to national resource for that search term, pulling in high-quality leads from across the U.S.

Within 3–4 weeks, the phones were ringing again. Inbound was back. And Chris walked away with a hard-earned reminder—never let your own marketing go stale.

Don't Put All Your Eggs in Google's Basket

If you're getting all your leads from one channel, you're on borrowed land. Whether it's Google, Facebook, or any single source, an algorithm tweak or platform change can crush your lead flow overnight. Jason's advice on this is to build three pillars:

• Inbound (like SEO and content)

• Outbound (targeted outreach and prospecting)

• Strategic partnerships (referrals, collabs, and networks)

That way, if one pillar crumbles, your agency can survive.

Turning Dyslexia into a Superpower

Like anyone who's struggled with dyslexia (like Jason, for instance) Chris had a hard time in school. Nowadays, however, he no longer sees it as a weakness and instead credits it with his ability to "feel" the algorithm and see patterns others might miss. It's helped him build a thriving agency, one that makes most of its money from content.

Both agreed, what once felt like a setback in school became an entrepreneurial advantage later in life.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Would you ever run two agencies at once? What if splitting your brand was the smartest way to protect and grow both?

Today's featured guest spotted a booming opportunity in a regulated market—but knew that advertising those services alongside his work for conservative and tech clients could hurt his existing agency. His solution? Launch a separate brand. The move paid off as the regulated market surged during the pandemic.

He shares what it's like to manage rapid growth, why he built a true people-first culture from day one, and how he stays optimistic even when agency life gets messy.

Greg Peters is the founder of 4B Marketing and Hybrid Marketing in Denver, Colorado. 4B focuses on tech, energy, and government sectors, while Hybrid serves regulated markets—most notably the cannabis industry. A former tech sales pro turned serial entrepreneur, Greg's journey into agency ownership may have been accidental, but what's not accidental is how quickly he scaled. They hit $1M in revenue in their second year — and his people-first philosophy became the secret weapon behind his rapid growth.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Why he chose to run two agencies.

• Growing to $1 million in just two years.

• Growing during the pandemic thanks to a controversial niche.

• Staying positive when agency life gets messy.

Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Running Two Agencies for Two Very Different Worlds

Greg didn't set out to run two agencies. The split happened because of the cannabis side of the business. 4B's conservative government and tech clients wouldn't exactly appreciate a cannabis case study on the homepage. So Hybrid was born to serve the regulated, fast-growing cannabis market without spooking the more traditional side.

This approach also positioned both agencies to thrive in their respective niches without brand confusion. For agency owners wondering when is it time to create new brands, separate brands aren't always about chasing new markets—they can be about protecting existing ones. If your positioning or client mix creates brand tension, a spin-off can give you room to grow in both spaces.

From Accidental Agency Owner to $1M in Two Years

Greg's path was a mix of corporate burnout and entrepreneurial curiosity. After years in tech sales and a detour into solar energy, he realized the big-company grind wasn't for him. So he launched a go-to-market consultancy for telecom.. Once creative work started flowing in—and his team started growing—he embraced the agency model.

The real jump happened when he let go. In year two, Greg went from $600K to $1M by putting the right people in the right seats and empowering them to run their own "business units" within the agency.

This is a shift most agency owners agree is vital to see true growth. However, it's usually uncomfortable and it takes time to make the decision to go all in. Greg made the leap quickly inspired by Richard Branson's philosophy in The Virgin Way. Years before starting the agency and as he read the book, he had already decided his mantra as a business owner should be putting people first and thus the people will put the client first. The result was a faster scale without burning out.

The Pandemic Pivot: Cannabis Keeps Growing

While many agencies hit pause in 2020, Greg's cannabis clients went into overdrive. With consumers stuck at home (and shopping local), demand spiked. That meant more competition, and suddenly the different cannabis providers needed more marketing to stand out. Hybrid Marketing doubled down on local search, "near me" campaigns, and brand differentiation—keeping clients top-of-mind while the industry boomed.

For agency owners, this is a masterclass in following the growth. Greg didn't predict cannabis would save the year, but he positioned his agency to move quickly when the opportunity showed up. Sometimes the best growth strategy is staying close to your clients' markets and being ready to ride the wave.

When the Org Chart Backfires

Not every growth move is a win. One of Greg's biggest lessons came from rolling out an org chart he thought would streamline things—only to find it created confusion for clients and tension among the team. It was a gut punch, but also a turning point.

He learned to check himself and remember this is only his first agency and there's still much to learn. Luckily, he was quick to strip out the toxicity created by that moment because culture eats strategy for breakfast. The goal isn't just to have a structure, it's to have one that actually works for your team and your clients.

Staying Positive When Agency Life Gets Messy

Greg has always naturally found himself on the more optimistic side of life. But his optimism isn't naive—it's built on grit, a strong support system, and relentless curiosity. From his wife's early encouragement ("It'll be okay," even when the bank account said otherwise) to his own belief in learning every day, Greg credits mindset as much as skill for his success.

For Greg, your network truly is your net worth and the more you can talk to people with the aim of creating a positive impact—whether that is on the financial business or helping somebody find a job or connecting them to a resource that'll help them—you put a lot of good stuff out into the universe without expectation, you'll get it back.

Finally, curiosity is the most valuable trait an agency owner can have. Read widely, talk to people in and outside your industry, and always be asking, "What if?" It's that curiosity that fuels innovation, keeps you ahead of trends, and helps you navigate the inevitable ups and downs.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Most agency owners don't wake up dreaming about selling. You want freedom, better clients, and to stop living in Slack at 2 a.m. But here's the truth:

The same moves that make your agency attractive to a buyer are the ones that give you freedom as an owner.

I built and sold an 8-figure agency and bought 10 more and now I'm sharing 8 elements of a sellable, scalable agency. Whether you ever sell or not, these are the foundations that make your shop stronger.

Let's break them down.

1. Stop Being the Accidental Owner

Most of us stumbled into agency life. That's fun—but long-term it's not a strategy.

You've got to shift from "operator" to agency CEO, and that means:

• Setting and communicating vision (over and over).

• Coaching your leadership team, not everyone.

• Knowing your numbers.

• Being the face of the agency.

• Building strategic relationships.

When your team knows where you're going, you stop being the bottleneck.

2. Build More Than Referrals

Referrals are great, but if 90% of your deals are coming from "word of mouth," you've got a problem.

Getting most of your leads from any singular channel is usually a red flag. When I'm looking at buying a business, one of the first things I'll ask is how many channels they have for building their pipeline, how can I increase those channels and make them more predictable. If I'm looking at this, you as the agency owners and CEO should too.

I recommend the three-legged stool: inbound, outbound, and strategic partnerships.

When you've got multiple reliable channels, downturns don't crush you. That's how my agency grew through 9/11, '08, and even COVID.

3. Predictable Revenue = Power

Buyers want to know: can we forecast revenue six months out? That means retainers, long-term contracts, and expanding client accounts.

If you land a $20k/month retainer, your mindset should be: "How can I build this account over time to grow it to $100k?"

And don't just deliver results—show them wins constantly. Stickiness comes from proof, community, and processes that make leaving painful.

4. Don't Let a Whale Sink You

If one client is 20%+ of your revenue, you're on thin ice. Does this mean that you should say no to big clients? Heck no. Take the whale and then go get more. Turn today's whales into tomorrow's minnows by leveling up your client base.

5. Leadership That Runs Without You

If your agency can't grow while you're gone for six months, you don't have a business—you have a job.

Owners shouldn't be doing marketing, sales, or any type of delivery.

A-players cost more, but they 10x the results and give you your life back. Your job isn't to run projects, sales, or delivery—it's to lead the leaders.

6. Profitability Isn't Optional

Know your EBITDA. If you're not profitable and reinvesting, you're stalling. And if you don't have a compelling growth story (even how you're leveraging AI), buyers—and clients—will pass.

7. Track KPIs Like a Pro

If you can't instantly tell me your close rate, show-up rate, or pipeline health, that's a problem. Great agencies have dashboards, not excuses.

8. Get Audited Financials (Every Year)

I've chatted with agency owners who thought they were making $1M profit—but after an audit, it was half that. Multiples dropped, deals crumbled.

Don't let your "guesswork" numbers cost you millions. Get audited, stay real.

Before You Even Think About Selling…

Don't sell unless you know what's next.

Plenty of agency owners with 7-figure profits and freedom think they're "done," only to end up depressed because they tied their identity to the agency.

Fix what you don't like. Keep what works. Only exit when you're moving toward something you actually want.

What To Do Next

If you're serious about building an agency that gives you freedom (and the option to sell someday), start here:

Agency Valuation Calculator. See what your agency's really worth today.

Agency Playbook. Jason's 8-system framework to shift from operator to CEO.

Agency Blueprint. Get a personalized roadmap to spot value gaps and growth opportunities.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

What happens when the agency you've built is just… stuck? Or when you hit a revenue ceiling, lose a major client, and start wondering if you've been playing the wrong game entirely? Those moments either break you or become the pivot points that redefine everything.

In this episode, you'll hear from an agency owner who's lived through the grind growing his agency from scratch, riding out recessions, choosing a niche that would help him get out of "no man's land". He'll discuss the strategic bet that broke through plateaus, why he still refuses to hire a COO, and the million-dollar risk that could have sunk him but ended up being a worthwhile bet on his vision.

Alex Membrillo is the founder and CEO of Cardinal Digital Marketing, a 100-person specialist agency in healthcare performance marketing. Based in Atlanta, Alex launched Cardinal 16 years ago fresh out of college driven by equal parts ambition and desperation. Over the years, he's navigated economic downturns, client churn, plateaus, and tough hiring markets, ultimately transforming it from a generalist digital shop into a niche powerhouse serving multi-site medical and dental groups nationwide.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Riding out recessions.

• Breaking plateaus and choosing a niche.

• Why he still prefers not hiring a COO.

• Alex's million-dollar bet on himself.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Starting from Scratch (and a Hospital Room)

Alex didn't start Cardinal with a polished business plan or a stack of VC cash — he started it the day after his first child was born. After watching his dad's business nearly collapse thanks to a terrible SEO agency, Alex vowed to do better. With a fraternity brother on board and the confidence of having built a website once at sixteen, they left the hospital, started cold-calling local businesses, and selling websites.

That first chapter didn't exactly go as planned. The websites flopped, but an SEO win for a kayak tour company gave them the confidence (and proof) they needed to double down on search. From there, they expanded into paid ads and built a reputation on a simple promise: If we suck, we'll give you your money back. In the wild west of 2009 SEO, when big agencies were scrambling to go "digital" overnight, this direct, performance-focused approach gave them an edge.

Riding Out Recessions & Staying Hands-On

Recessions shaped Alex's early leadership style. In 2009, big agencies were struggling, but lean, hungry digital-first shops could move faster and win clients. That meant Alex was doing it all—account managing 20 clients, selling new business, running QuickBooks, and hiring unpaid interns just to keep things moving.

In those early days, generalists are gold. If you're too small for deep specialization, having people who can juggle SEO, PPC, and client management was critical. Even now, with a bigger team, Alex stays close to clients—spending hours each week on calls. To him, the job never ends, and the size of the clients is the only thing that's changed thus far. Hence, staying in the work keeps his perspective sharp.

Breaking Plateaus by Choosing a Niche

By 2016, Cardinal had hit a wall at around $3.5M in revenue. At that stage, he realized what he had wasn't really a business. You're just a very good operator that probably has one or two big clients. The problem is that if those clients leave, as it happened to him when he was around $4 million, then you're down to zero again.

They'd grown by targeting four sectors—higher ed, home services, healthcare, and legal—which did help propel the agency. However, growth stalled again at $7–8M.

Then COVID hit, and Alex decided to stop playing the "variety" game. Inspired by Jim Collins' Hedgehog Concept, he asked: What can we be the best in the world at? What drives our economic engine? What do we actually love doing? The answer was healthcare.

They rebranded, rewrote their site, published thought leadership, and even released a book to claim their spot in the niche. They didn't fire old clients—they just stopped marketing to non-healthcare prospects and let those accounts naturally roll off. Alex does wish he would've also kept a bit of focus on higher ed, another sector where the agency really shined. Nonetheless, the bet paid off: a laser focus on healthcare has helped them grow faster, build deeper expertise, and win larger multi-site provider clients.

Why Alex Still Doesn't Have a COO

Alex firmly believes you can grow out of most problems, so every time he felt the agency was stuck, he went right back to improving their marketing, getting bigger clients, and hiring talented people. It's a simple formula that has kept working for him throughout the years. However, here's where he breaks from conventional wisdom: even at 100+ employees, Cardinal has no head of operations or finance. Everyone, including him, is billable.

"I've made the mistake 83 times of listening to experts who say 'Go hire a COO,'" Alex says. In his view, it's just not worth it at that point in your growth. "Do as much as you can as the owner. Have all departments report to you. You don't need middle management pushing paper. You need smart, talented people actually doing the work."

That lean structure only works if you market hard and keep new business flowing. It gives you the freedom to walk away from bad-fit clients and double down on growth opportunities.

AI as Your Board of Advisors

Agency owners like Alex, who see no need to hire a COO or CMO while they can still manage things themselves, can now turn to AI as a resourceful solution, treating it like an in-house advisory board.

Like fellow agency owner Chris Dreyer—who built custom GPTs for CFO and COO roles and used AI to better understand the business acquisition process—Alex is now considering feeding his P&L and monthly reports into AI to spot trends, explain fluctuations, and even validate assumptions.

The takeaway: you don't need expensive consultants or bloated leadership teams to get strategic insight. With the right prompts, you can cut through the noise and focus on execution, the part AI can't do for you (yet).

The Million-Dollar Bet on Himself

One of Alex's biggest turning points came when he bought out his co-founder. His partner had lost interest in client work, and Alex saw no way forward without full control. After a year of negotiation, he signed a deal that left him $1M in debt.

For three years, he funneled $35,000 a month from profits to pay it off, losing sleep and enduring massive stress. In hindsight, it was worth it, but it took "probably 30 years off my life," Alex says. Still, it was a defining moment—proving to himself he was willing to bet big on his own vision.

Thought Leadership as a Growth Engine

Cardinal's healthcare niche dominance didn't just happen—it was engineered. Alex leveraged thought leadership to own the space. From content and events to industry-specific messaging, they positioned themselves as the go-to choice for multi-site healthcare providers.

He's quick to point out this approach has pros and cons, but if you want his playbook, he's happy to share it—just reach out on LinkedIn.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Are you growing your agency with the goal of selling it one day? More importantly, are you taking the right steps now to ensure it's actually worth what you think it is?

Today's featured guest has built and sold multiple agencies over the years, gaining hard-earned insights into the process. He shares what you need to know to prepare your agency for sale, the potential pitfalls and opportunities with non-competes and earnouts, and whether hiring a broker is really worth it.

If selling your agency is on your horizon, or even just a long-term possibility, this episode is packed with practical advice to help you maximize your valuation and avoid costly mistakes.

Sean Hakes has been building and selling digital marketing agencies since the early 2000's back when 'SEO' wasn't a household term and websites were still coded in tables.. He's grown agencies from small side hustles into multi-million-dollar operations, navigated multiple acquisitions, and learned the hard way how to structure a deal and when to walk away.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Getting savvier for his second agency sale.

• Not taking the highest bid, but picking the right buyer.

• Getting back to the game after a restrictive non-compete.

• Buying back his old agency.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

How a Major Mistake Started His Agency Journey

Most agency owners start by accident, but in Sean's case, he accidentally broke a website.

While working for another company, he took down their site and had to learn HTML on the fly to fix it. That crash course turned into a curiosity for web design, which turned into a small SEO and design shop in Denver around 2001–2002, back when keyword stuffing and white text on a white background actually worked.

Sean's first agency wasn't huge—three or four people, a few hundred grand in revenue—but their search visibility was strong. That alone was enough to attract an out-of-state buyer. The deal wasn't life-changing money, and looking back he thinks (since he didn't know anything about valuations) that he probably gave it away, but it was enough to get Sean hooked on the idea of building, growing, and eventually selling agencies.

The "Do It Better" Second Act

After dabbling in landscaping, trucking, and even diamond brokering businesses following the sale of his first agency, Sean realized marketing was still his zone of genius. This time, he teamed up with a sales-savvy partner. Sean handled operations; his partner brought in a big book of business.

That agency scaled to about $3 million in revenue before they decided to sell—but not before learning a hard truth about valuations: top-line revenue doesn't mean much without profit.

When they first went to a broker, they were shocked to get a $100k valuation. Why so low? No recurring contracts, thin margins, and too much discretionary spending. So they spent the next year tightening up—signing contracts, cutting waste, and boosting profit.

It's a lesson many agency owners dreaming of selling at some point have to learn. You may think that making millions in topline revenue means your business is worth a lot, and then you learn there are many factors that determine that price, and profit is a pretty big one in the agency space.

Understanding Deal Structures (and Picking the Right Buyer)

The second sale was a much more strategic process. Sean and his partner used a broker, entertained multiple offers, and discovered there are a million ways to structure a deal. The one they chose was about half cash up front, with the rest split between owner financing and an earnout.

Here's the kicker: they didn't take the highest bid. Instead, they picked a private equity group that specialized in their industry and cared about their team and clients. They passed on flashier offers, like one from a New York club owner, because they valued long-term success over a quick payday.

They also learned brokers are very expensive. In fact, if he could do it all over again with the knowledge he has now, Sean wouldn't use a broker.

Playing the Earnout Game (and Winning It)

Earnouts can be a trap, designed to look great on paper but structured so you'll never hit the target. Sean and his partner weren't having it. They stayed on the sales team, volunteered their time, and treated the earnout like a commission plan they could win.

The trick for them was conservative projections. Instead of promising buyers a wild 50–100% growth rate (and setting themselves up to miss), they targeted a steady 10% growth. This set the earnout bar at a realistic level—and they smashed it.

They even negotiated out their broker's cut of the earnout once they knew they'd hit it, keeping 100% of the upside.

From Restrictive Non-Competes to Freedom Deals

Sean's second agency sale came with a brutal seven-year non-compete—likely unenforceable, but restrictive enough to stress him out. Five years in, low on reserves, he approached the buyer with a proposal: let him start another company without poaching their clients.

Instead of a fight, they offered to partner with him, gave their blessing, and even returned his old domains. That experience stood in stark contrast to another sale where the non-compete was simply, "Stay out of our 30-mile radius."

Takeaway: Non-compete terms can vary wildly. Negotiate them up front, and remember that relationships matter long after the ink is dry.

The Cashless Merger That Led to a Full Cash Exit

In 2011, Sean started another agency, Altitude. Five years later, he merged it with another company in a cashless deal to boost revenue and valuation. Within a year, an unexpected buyer came along with a full-multiple, all-cash offer—and only wanted one person to stay on.

Sean took the deal, pocketed the money, and moved to the beach in South Carolina to run a fishing charter. "The old saying about boats, being happiest when buying and selling them, is true," he laughs—but the experience checked a personal dream off his list.

Buying Back His Old Agency

In a very full-circle moment, the company that had bought Sean's agency in an earlier deal came back to him in trouble. Mismanagement, bad outsourcing, and unhappy clients had turned it into a sinking ship.

Sean and his new partner jumped on the opportunity, bought it back for a fraction of what they'd sold it for, rehired many of the original team, and turned it around within months.

Sometimes the best acquisition target is one you already know inside and out—especially if you can buy it back at a discount and restore its former glory.

Sean's Advice to Agency Owners Thinking About a Sale

Don't take the first "decent" offer. The buyer pool is bigger than you think—negotiate.

Be strategic with brokers. Great ones exist, but remember that they get paid if you sell, so their advice may be biased.

Control your earnout terms. Conservative projections give you room to exceed expectations and actually cash in.

Relationships last longer than deals. Today's buyer could be tomorrow's partner — or seller.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

What happens when you stop chasing $30K projects and start solving real problems for smaller clients in a way that actually works?

Today's featured guest had been building $32,000 websites for mid-market companies. On paper, it looked like success. But in reality, he felt stuck—unfulfilled and back in a corporate-style grind that didn't align with the kind of work or life he truly wanted.

When he took a step back, he realized something important: the clients he really wanted to serve were already reaching out. These were smaller, $300K businesses with many of the same challenges agencies see across the board—but without the bloated complexity.

So he made a bold pivot. He simplified his offer, created a productized service, and returned to his roots—helping people in a way that felt meaningful, scalable, and sustainable. The result? Less stress, more impact, and a business model built around freedom, not friction.

Nate Freedman is the founder of TechPro Marketing and creator of MSP Sites, a productized service built specifically for Managed IT Service Providers. After years of working in high-ticket agency engagements, Nate made a bold pivot—focusing on volume, automation, and scalable coaching for small IT firms. That shift helped him grow from a $20K/month agency to a $2.5M+ business serving over 100 clients with a tight, dialed-in model.

We'll explore his early missteps, the aha moment that changed everything, and the system he built to serve a niche audience at scale—without losing his soul.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Pivoting to MPSs as the perfect fit.

• Creating a low-ticket offer.

• Productizing with a purpose.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Impostor Syndrome and the Accidental CEO

Nate's background wasn't in marketing strategy or enterprise consulting. He was a self-taught internet nerd who cut his teeth writing affiliate articles and selling photo recovery software online.

He studied accounting, not realizing when he picked that career that being an online marketer was an option. Right out of college, his first job was at an accounting firm, an experience he promptly hated. He felt exposed and like a fish out of water.

This is a feeling he recognized years later when, the more his agency took on large, complex clients like Salesforce, the more he felt like a fraud. He was working with large corporations and felt like an impostor. It just wasn't the right fit for him.

"I was putting on a kind of a facade. Like, I was pretending to be someone I wasn't… and it just wasn't me."

That realization drove Nate back to his roots: helping people who reminded him of himself.

From Big Clients to Bigger Misalignment

Nate didn't start small. Like many digital agency owners, his early focus was on winning big projects—$10K, $20K, even $32K website and marketing packages. And sure, those checks looked great at first… until a very good client sent him the dreaded email:

"Nate, when are we going to generate leads from this?"

That one question—posed by a well-meaning client already $32K in—flipped the switch. Nate realized that delivering work isn't the same as delivering results. The more he moved upmarket, the more he felt like he was back in the corporate world he hated. High-maintenance clients. Long sales cycles. No real alignment.

He wasn't building relationships. He was building a façade.

Finding His People: MSPs as the Perfect Fit

Nate's breakthrough came when he niched down into the MSP (Managed Service Provider) space. These were former tech guys turned business owners—scrappy, smart, and stuck in the same ways agency owners often are.

They didn't need $30K marketing retainers. They needed help generating leads, converting visitors, and staying in business.

Nate made a gutsy move. He ditched his high-ticket proposals and started sending BombBomb videos to leads who had previously ghosted him:

"You turned down my $20,352 proposal. Here's my new one: $2,000 a month, and I'll help you generate leads. I don't even know exactly what I'll do yet. I just want to help you grow."

That transparency worked. Five early adopters signed on, and Nate never looked back.

Scaling a Low-Ticket, High-Impact Model

What started as a simplified offer became a flywheel. Over seven years, Nate scaled his agency to over 100 monthly clients, all paying around $4,200/month. But growth at that level brings churn.

With just 3% monthly churn, he'd have to invest more on sales and onboarding and close three new clients a month just to break even.

However, focusing on growing this way meant turning away 75% of leads who were not at least $1 million in revenue that could afford the expense.

And most of the businesses reaching out to his agency were at 200K-300K. Nate felt he could service those clients without a big investment in human resources.

This sparked the next evolution: MSP Sites.

The new offer targeted those MSPs doing $200K–$300K/year. These folks couldn't pay $4K/month… but they desperately needed help.

So Nate reverse-engineered a low-cost, high-value offer that started at $200/month and eventually grew to include:

• Custom-designed websites

• Human chat agents

• CRM and booking automations

• On-demand courses and live office hours

• Weekly coaching and a client-only community

He went from being "just another agency" to becoming an all-in-one marketing partner for small MSPs—at a price they could actually say "hell yes" to.

Productizing with Purpose: Lessons from the Pivot

This shift to a productized offer came with unexpected lessons, as Nate was confronted with a question from his past work making $32K websites or a $200 website: "Where are the leads?"

He realized that whether he was going after the high end or low end of the market, he still had to provide an end result for clients. Low ticket doesn't mean low impact. He has to answer that question while still providing an affordable service, so he started layering in automation, coaching, and a structured experience This slightly raised the price to $300/month, but clients not felt like they were part of a premium program.

Nate wanted to help clients not just have a website, but also generate leads, drive traffic, and close the deal. By adding live calls, email support, and a live event, Nate turned MSP Sites into more than a tool—it became a tribe.

Once the service was upgraded and clients could get their website set up even faster, the problem was that now they all looked the same. Nate knew his clients deserved better, so he removed the one-click deploy and now ensures each website is custom-designed to look amazing. Of course, this also led to a rise of the set up fee, but clients were more than happy to pay for a better design.

Finally, on-demand courses and live office hours were the finishing touch for his new offer and he was finally helping clients much more and building the business he really enjoys.

Market Share > Margins (When You're Playing the Long Game)

At some point, most agency owners fantasize about selling. Nate's no different—but he's thinking a few moves ahead. Instead of relying on private equity, his bet is on strategic acquisition by a larger company in his own niche.

"The best multiple I'm going to get is from someone who wants more market share."

That's why he's focused on volume at the low end. Every small client is a slice of market share. And if you can build community, coaching, and brand loyalty into your offer, you're not just a service provider—you're infrastructure.

The Next Frontier: Launching a Mastermind

With 300+ paying clients, Nate's building something many agency owners should be thinking about but don't: a mastermind for your niche.

Why?

Because clients already trust you. They're already getting value. And when you get them in a room together—virtually or physically—magic happens.

Better yet, Nate doesn't need to be the guru. The best masterminds don't revolve around one person—they're facilitated, not taught. When the room is full of practitioners, the value is in the conversations.

Do Right By People (and You'll Win)

Scaling isn't just about tech, pricing models, or marketing hacks. It's about people.

Nate credits a huge part of his growth to partnering with E2M Solutions, which removed the HR complexity of managing a dev team in-house. More importantly, it aligned with his core value:

"Do right by people. If you do that, no one's going to say anything bad about you. Even when you make mistakes."

It's simple, but in a crowded industry full of overpromising and under-delivering, that integrity stands out—and scales.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Are you stuck chasing new clients while ignoring the goldmine in your past customer list? Does your agency feast on projects but starve for predictable revenue? Today's featured guest knows what it's like to hit a growth ceiling and being tired of the one-and-done client hamster wheel.

He shares how he pivoted his agency after becoming a HubSpot partner, why he turned to project-based work after customer habits changed following the pandemic, and how he got out of the dreaded "no man's land".

Eric Baum is the CEO and founder of Bluleadz, a HubSpot Onboarding and Implementation Agency dedicated to transforming the way companies market, sell, and service their customers through the power of the HubSpot platform. He'll discuss his cash flow challenges, pricing mistakes that almost tanked the business, and how EOS helped him escape "no man's land."

If you're stuck in the fulfillment hamster wheel or scaling past $5M feels like pushing a boulder uphill... listen up.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Reinventing his agency as a HubSpot partner.

• The real scaling struggle: cash flow.

• Why project-based doesn't mean profitless.

• Strategic partnerships are the future.

Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Accidental Founder, Intentional CEO

Back in the Yellow Pages era, Eric was running two service-based franchises and needed a better way to market them. He brought marketing in-house for PPC, SEO, web dev, and that hire didn't just turn things around. It turned into a new business.

Fast-forward a few months, and other franchise owners across the country started asking for help. Eric spun that in-house team into an agency, and had 50 clients out of the gate.

As many owners before have admitted to, Eric started out charging way too low—$250 to $500/month.

"I don't know how I didn't go broke right out of the gate," he laughs. And if you've ever undercharged in the early days, you'll feel that one deep in your soul.

Reinventing the Agency (and Himself) Around HubSpot

The turning point came when Eric discovered HubSpot and pivoted Bluleadz to become a certified partner. That's when the "real" agency began, as he started to study the industry and figure out what he had to do to be profitable, take care of his team, and do it without necessarily doing all the sales work all the time.

From there, Eric leaned into strategy, profitability, and systems. He stopped trying to be the everything guy and started building an agency that didn't need him in the trenches every day.

Fifteen years later, his agency isn't just thriving. It's structured, profitable, and on track to hit 8 figures.

Life in "No Man's Land" – The $1M to $5M Plateau

After fifteen years in the industry and getting closer to the eight-figure mark, one of the things that most surprised Eric was getting stuck in the ugly middle: the zone between $1M and $5M where a lot of agency dreams go to die. Many call it "no man's land," and if you've been there, you know the pain.

"It was up, down, up, down," he says. "I'd grow, then lose key employees. Revenue would spike, then tank. I kept asking, 'What am I doing wrong?'"

The answer: a lack of structure.

So about nine years ago, Eric implemented EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System). That gave his agency the foundation it needed—vision, accountability, and a cadence to scale. It didn't fix everything overnight, but it got the business out of reaction mode and into growth mode.

The Real Scaling Struggle: Cash Flow

Even with all that success, Eric's biggest constraint today isn't clients or talent. It's cash.

In the agency world, sometimes you can grow so fast that you can actually outpace your ability to fund it. As Eric explains, "Receivables stack up. You can't hire, build, or invest without the cash reserves in place to hit the down terms."

For instance, just this year his agency was down 20% compared to last year because of all the uncertainty for businesses.

Sound familiar?

So far, Eric's solution has been airtight payment terms. They moved away from waiting on client deliverables and toward milestone-based billing. They typically charge:

• 50% upfront

• 25% after month one

• 25% at month two or fixed date

Not based on deliverables. Based on time. Why? Because waiting on clients kills momentum (and your margin). "We used to wait months to get that final 50%. Now we're often 100% paid before a project is even done." Moral of the story? Set clear terms and stop letting clients hold your agency hostage.

Project-Based Doesn't Mean Profitless If You Structure It Right

Five years ago, 85% of Bluleadz's revenue came from retainers.

Then COVID hit.

Buying behavior shifted fast. Clients wanted results without long-term commitments. So Eric pivoted hard into project work—today, 80–85% of their revenue comes from one-off HubSpot onboarding and implementation projects.

That means 50–75 new customers per month, each on 30 to 90-day timelines.

The lesson: project-based doesn't have to mean chaos - if you systemize delivery and payment.

However, Eric does admit he and his team had been failing to recapture clients for a second or third project. "We were just focused on getting new clients through the door."

Instead of nurturing clients post-delivery, they handed off the project and moved on. Meanwhile, past clients drifted—only to come back a year or two later in total chaos saying, "We lost our HubSpot guy. Can you help?"

The opportunity cost was massive.

They are currently working on recapturing these relationships. By reselling past clients, his agency could double or triple revenue in a year.

The Triple-Team Model: Sales, CSM, Implementation

In their efforts to start creating more lifetime value for customers, Eric's agency introduced Customer Success Managers (CSMs)—not just to check in, but to hunt for value.

CSMs dig into each client's needs post-project, surface upsell or cross-sell opportunities, and feed them back to the sales team. Now they're farming the base, increasing LTV, and stacking wins without chasing cold leads.

This third new role adds a new layer to his team's structure, which he now breaks down as:

• Salespeople close net-new deals and join key milestone calls.

• Implementation Specialists own delivery and are the client's main point of contact.

• CSMs sit above delivery, watching for success gaps, retention issues, and upsell opportunities.

"Salespeople are hunters, not farmers. Trying to make them farm didn't work. So we changed the model."

This layered structure gives clients clarity, keeps teams focused, and ensures no growth opportunity slips through the cracks.

Strategic Partnerships Are the Future

Another key reason Bluleadz is scaling so quickly is partnerships.

They're one of HubSpot's top onboarding partners, and at one point this partnership drove most of his agency's net new leads. More recently, however, as they start to expand their efforts to engage past clients, only 40% of their leads come from HubSpot, while 30% comes from existing customers, and another 30% from their inbound marketing efforts, other strategic partners, and referrals.

This makes for a more balanced pipeline: "Inbound, outbound, and strategic partnerships". Those are the three pillars in the Playbook. You've got 'em dialed in.

As for Eric, he's all in on strategic partnerships, which he considers to be the way of the future.

The One Thing Eric Would Do Differently

If he could go back and give his younger self advice on agency ownership, Eric would say "Let go faster."

He held on too long to sales, finance, client services… all of it. And every time he finally let go, the agency grew again.

Today, Eric has zero departmental responsibilities. His job is vision, strategy, and leadership—and it's paying off.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.