Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Let's get real for a second.

40% of CMOs are cutting agency budgets this year. (Not hype. That's from Gartner's 2025 CMO spend survey.)

If you're still out there selling tasks instead of outcomes, blending in like every other "me too" agency, you're not just at risk—you're probably already on the cut list.

But here's the good news: Some agencies aren't just surviving right now. They're growing like crazy.

Why?

Because they're leading. They're essential. They're uncuttable.

Vendors Get Cut. Partners Stay.

Here's what most agencies are still doing:

• Taking orders.

• Waiting for direction.

• Hoping results keep the client around.

But when CMOs tighten budgets, they don't cut true strategic partners—they cut vendors and noise. In-house teams and AI are replacing basic production. If your agency doesn't feel essential, you will get replaced. Period.

You know what else CMOs are cutting? Agencies that over-promise, under-deliver, and ghost clients after the deal closes.

I've hired a few agencies over the past couple of years, and I can say most agencies have the slick branding and a confident talk, but once the deal is closed execution just falls apart. I've seen this more times than I can count. Communication fades away and no one takes ownership

This is what CMOs are frustrated with. They're not just making cuts to save money. They're doing it after getting tired of disappointments.

Joey Coleman says it best:

"Most clients don't leave because of price; they leave because they don't feel seen, heard, or supported in the first 100 days."

Remember that while agency teams get excited and start high-fiving each other once the deal closes, the client is sitting there thinking, "Did I just waste my budget?" That gap between your excitement and their anxiety is where trust is either built or destroyed.

And it's true. Our mastermind member Marty took that to heart, redesigned his client experience, and grew to a multi-million-dollar agency because he didn't wait for tasks—he led, flew out to meet clients, set clear expectations, and became indispensable.

Make Yourself Uncuttable

You want to stay off the cut list? Lead. Own the relationship. Here's how:

1. Find Quick Wins Fast

Don't wait six months to show value. Launch something in the first 30 days. Fix something they didn't even ask for. Send a Loom video explaining how you improved their funnel. Let them say, "These people move fast."

2. Overcommunicate When Things Aren't Working

Most agencies go quiet when results dip. Leaders say, "Here's what's happening, here's what we're changing, here's what to expect." Transparency builds trust.

3. Be a Resource, Not a Responder

Stop waiting for tasks. Show up with new hooks, funnel fixes, better angles. Be the call they make when anything breaks in their business, not just when they need a landing page.

4. Take Ownership, Not Orders

Stop asking, "What do you want us to do next?" Start saying, "Here's what we're doing, and here's why." That's how you shift from vendor to partner.

5. Productize and Simplify

If it takes you 30 minutes to explain what you do, you're in trouble. Make your offer outcome-driven, simple, and memorable. Like the PR agency that said, "We turn publicity into pipeline." That sticks.

Real Results from Agencies Leading This Way

Just look at Brittany, who stopped winging it, joined the mastermind, and committed to leading:

• Revenue up 35% in a quarter

• Profit up 41%

• Churn dropped 32%

• SEO and social revenue doubled

And she didn't get there with a fancy hack. She got there by leading and building trust.

This Isn't Just About Staying Off a Cut List

It's about building an agency that deserves to grow—one that earns trust, delivers outcomes, and leads.

Want a place to start? Pick one of these actions today:

• Tighten your onboarding.

• Call a client you haven't talked to in a while.

• Launch the damn thing you've been sitting on.

Because the agencies that win aren't waiting for permission or praying for renewals. They're leading, earning trust, and making themselves uncuttable.

If you're ready to attract better clients and become uncuttable, check out the Attract Masterclass. It will help you position your agency to pull in the right leads instead of just more leads.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Is churn currently a problem with your agency clients? Are you aware of the reasons they decide to leave? It may be time to think hard about your onboarding process, client communication, and generally the ways you're ensuring client satisfaction. The difference often comes down to positioning: are you operating as a trusted advisor or simply completing tasks? Today's special guest knows that agencies that prioritize client satisfaction, embrace accountability, and focus on becoming trusted advisors rather than mere task completers are the ones that create truly loyal clients.

As our Agency Scale Specialist, Darby Copenhaver, has closely observed the growth trajectories of numerous mastermind members and constantly communicates with them in their journeys. In this conversation, he and Jason get into the importance of strong communication and transparent onboarding processes to combat buyer's remorse and build trust.

They also address the strategic use of AI to enhance efficiency and results, stressing that while AI can automate tasks, human connection and understanding clients' evolving needs remain paramount for long-term partnerships.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• How to prevent your clients' buyer's remorse.

• Your onboarding might be the problem.

• Stop ignoring current clients.

• Your secret retention weapon: ongoing discovery.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Why Your Clients Might Not Love You (Even if You're Getting Results)

Ever feel like you're crushing it for clients, but then they ghost you or churn unexpectedly? There are several reasons why this could be happening and ways to stop it before it kills your momentum.

Here's the truth: buyers remorse sets in immediately after a client signs. It's your job to kill that remorse with rock-solid communication and a frictionless onboarding experience. Most agencies think they're good communicators because they answer emails. But clients want more than tasks checked off. They want to feel seen, understood, and confident they made the right decision. If you're not proactively communicating wins (and misses), or if you let your PMs control the narrative without your oversight, you're setting yourself up for churn, no matter how "good" your delivery is.

Your Onboarding Might Be Pushing Clients Away

As Jason knows from recent experiences as a client, most agencies' onboarding is just an exhausting homework dump on clients who already told you their goals in the sales calls you recorded. Why are you making them repeat themselves, fill out giant forms, or wait for your scattered follow-ups?

Your clients didn't hire you to do more work. They hired you to get results while saving them time.

• Break your onboarding into clear, easy phases,

• Reset expectations,

• Use the data you already have (like call transcripts and AI sorting) to fill in the blanks yourself.

If you set clear timelines, communication rhythms, and how success will be measured in that first meeting, you'll position yourself as a trusted advisor, not another vendor barking for "assets" they've already shared. This is what makes clients relieved to work with you instead of stressed.

Communication: Simple, But Rarely Done Right

It's so important for any business to show that you're trustworthy, and you'll show that by doing what you say you'll do, when you say you'll do it. Too many agencies fail to communicate delays, let tasks slip, and think a monthly dashboard is enough. It's not.

Dashboards alone mean nothing to most clients. Some need a quick Loom, some need Slack check-ins, others need a simple "Here's what we did, what's next, and why it matters." Customizing your communication style shows your clients you're paying attention to them, not just copy-pasting your agency SOPs onto their business. This is how you become a trusted advisor, the person they call with challenges (not just tasks). That's how you become irreplaceable.

So, which measures are you implementing at your agency to ensure - not just assume - that you know your clients are happy, not only with the results presented but also the overall experience?

Want Clients to Stick Around? Be Human

When was the last time you called a client you didn't personally sell or deliver on, just to check in and say, "Hey, I'm the CEO, here's my number if you need anything"?

Most agencies never do this, but it's one of the simplest ways to build relationships that survive budget cuts and economic slowdowns. If clients only see you as a transaction, you're the first thing to get cut. If they see you as a partner, they'll fight to keep you.

Want to take it further? Fly out and have dinner with your top clients once a year. Exchange stories, show them you care, and watch how your retention and upsells climb.

Stop Leaving Money on the Table by Ignoring Current Clients

Agencies love to yell, "We need more leads!" But often, your easiest growth is sitting right in front of you. If your clients trust you, they'll come to you with new problems—many of which you can solve or connect them with someone who can. This positions you as a problem solver, not an order taker.

Instances like this are a great opportunity to be strategic, guide them, and reinforce how much you value the relationship. Results are awesome, but that value is what will take from being transactional to being a value relationship they'll fight to keep in times of economic uncertainty.

Why Ongoing Discovery Is Your Secret Retention Weapon

If you're selling to clients you can't grow with, you're setting yourself up for frustration. Too many agencies say "yes" to clients who aren't ready, don't want help, or can't commit to scaling. It's like hiring a personal trainer while refusing to stop eating cake every night. They might pay you, but they won't get results—and they'll blame you when they don't.

And what about after you've found the right clients? Darby believes too many agencies forget that discovery isn't just for the sales process. Every client interaction should be a sort of ongoing discovery. Agencies that retain and grow accounts are constantly in ongoing discovery mode.

As you bring success to clients their needs will evolve, their businesses shift, and what worked four months ago might be irrelevant today. If you're not in tune with those shifts, your agency becomes stale, and you'll get replaced.

A challenge for agency owners: How are you staying aware of what's changing in your clients' businesses? Are you proactively checking in, asking about priorities, and aligning your services to what's happening right now? Or are you stuck on autopilot, delivering what they hired you for while missing what they actually need today? Stay curious, stay in discovery, and you'll stay essential.

Communication Clarity: 411 vs. 911

To prevent the typical disconnect when clients are unsure of who to reach out to and for what, Darby and Jason recommend this simple but powerful tactic brought by Agency Mastery member, Travis. He tells clients exactly who to reach out to for "411" (info & updates) vs. "911" (emergencies). This eliminates confusion, speeds up communication, and prevents small issues from turning into big frustrations.

And when you mess up—and you will—own it fast. Clients don't want spin or silence. They want the truth — fast. One agency Jason used messed up an ad so badly it was embarrassing, and instead of calling to own it, they hid behind Slack messages. Don't be that agency. Mistakes happen. What matters is how quickly and humanly you fix them.

Be Human. Clients Crave It.

At the heart of retention and growth is human connection. If your agency relationships feel like sterile transactions, you're replaceable. Clients want to feel seen and understood. If everything you share sounds like sugarcoated wins while their results lag, they'll start doubting you.

Long-term, high-value clients come from humanizing your interactions—having real conversations, admitting mistakes, sharing wins, and being upfront about challenges. Clients don't want perfect robots; they want partners they trust.

Don't Fear AI - Use It to Win

Do clients want their agencies to use AI? Overwhelmingly, yes. They just don't what you to use it just to write articles and create crappy images, brands want their agencies using AI to get better results. According to a survey conducted by Audience Audit, 77% of brands are more likely to hire an agency seen as an AI expert, yet only 32% think their current agency is.

This is a massive opportunity. But here's the key: don't use AI as a crutch to replace human strategy. Use it to collect, analyze, and interpret data faster so you can bring clients valuable insights and make micro-adjustments that drive real results. Clients want done-for-you solutions that leverage AI under the hood while preserving a human relationship on the front end.

Just remember that clients don't care about your systems, your dashboards, or your internal processes if they don't lead to results. They want outcomes with as little friction as possible. AI can help you cut busywork, speed up insights, and refine strategy—but it's your human understanding and relationship that keeps clients paying, referring, and expanding their contracts.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Do you invest in training high-potential employees to grow into leadership roles—or do you prefer to hire seasoned pros from the start? There's no one-size-fits-all approach to building a great team, but today's featured guest has a clear philosophy: when it comes to agency growth, he prefers to develop A-players from within. For him, building the bench is just as important as building the business.

Hamlet Azarian is the founder and CEO of Azarian Growth Agency, an agency that works with mid-market venture-backed startups helping them build their go-to-market strategies. He discusses his agency's "build them up" strategy, focusing on continual learning and curiosity through an academy, webinars, and internships, rather than solely hiring seasoned professionals.

He'll address the common agency challenge of talent retention, noting that positive experiences can still lead to future referrals and positive word-of-mouth, even if employees eventually move on. It's an interesting episode where we dive into the importance of human capital and fostering a supportive, value-driven environment for agency success.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Growing talent from scratch.

• Promote those who are ready to shine.

• The secret to employee retention.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

From Go-to Fixer to Full Agency

Before he was running his own growth agency, Hamlet was the go-to fixer for venture-backed startups in the trenches of pre-product chaos. VCs brought him in as a high-paid consultant to help fragile startups figure out product validation and go-to-market traction — a risky sandbox where there's barely a product and hardly any money.

As the companies he touched turned into multi-million-dollar powerhouses, word got around, more VCs lined up, and the Azarian Growth Agency was born. So as he recalls, it wasn't exactly an accidental start, but considering he was helping startups that could barely write a check, he could not see it turning into a full agency in the beginning.

A Culture of Relentless Learning

One thing Hamlet doesn't compromise on is curiosity. If you run an agency, you know yesterday's marketing tactic is today's LinkedIn meme. So instead of hiring only 'seasoned experts,' He invests in creating lifelong learners.

How? He built Azarian Growth Academy, which trains up-and-coming marketers on the exact growth strategies his agency deploys for high-stakes startups. Add to that a monthly Growth Lab webinar, Udemy courses (4,000+ students and counting), and a robust internship pipeline — and you get a team that knows not just what to do, but why it works.

Education is really central for Hamlet so his people don't just follow checklists — they evolve with the market because they understand the principles behind the tactics.

Growing Talent from Scratch (and Letting Them Fly)

Does it work? Hamlet shares a story that answers that better than any hiring manifesto.

One intern joined as a college senior, left, and rejoined when Hamlet officially hung out his agency shingle. When he saw her application, Hamlet immediately hired her, as she knew her aptitude, passion, and even her weaknesses. Within 6 months, she was running paid ads. By year one, she was pitching clients solo. By year two, she was leading teams and today she's a senior department head.

The lesson here is drive and curiosity should be backed with training, opportunity, and real trust. The payoff is massive loyalty and in-house expertise that's molded to your agency's playbook — not someone else's.

Promotion by Performance, Not the Calendar

Forget annual reviews and rigid promotion ladders. Hamlet's approach is simple: Learn fast, deliver results, get rewarded. To him, some people shine faster than others and, as the agency owners, you don't to limit that potential.

Of course, you want to prepare them for the new role, so he tests emerging talent on internal agency projects before putting them on client accounts.

If they mess up, the agency learns — not the client's bank account. It's a safe sandbox for risk-taking and skill-building, with performance as the only true gatekeeper to moving up.

Flexibility: The Secret Sauce to Keeping Good People

How can you keep that talent from jumping ship the second they hit senior level? You don't always. And Hamlet says that's perfectly fine.

Even with AI evolving daily, Hamlet's clear that an agency's real moat is people — smart, motivated, curious people who feel trusted and supported to do their best work. Tools change. Channels come and go. But the humans who run them? That's your agency's real asset.

In his view, the agency's success is predicated on the owner's ability to bring in talented people on to the team and provide a great environment that encourages them to stay. And the definition of "great" in this case may vary from individual to individual, but Hamlet finds that more than perks or a foosball table or free LaCroix, it's about freedom.

People need room to live their lives — whether that's hopping on a plane to Italy with the kids, or working flexible hours so family time doesn't clash with client deadlines.

When people feel understood and trusted, they stay longer. And if they do leave? They become allies, not competitors. Many send referrals back. Some boomerang and return. And nearly all say, "That's where I learned how to do great work."

That reputation becomes your best recruiting tool — a self-feeding loop of great people wanting in.

Experience vs. Fresh Eyes: A Never-Ending Balancing Act

There's a million ways to grow an agency and there are no easy answers when it comes to hiring. Even if you hire the "experienced pro," they can become rigid and slow to adapt — a death knell for early-stage growth marketing where experimentation rules.

Hamlet's advice is don't bet the farm on resumes alone. Bet on mindset. Surround yourself with good people who share the same values. Look for curiosity, a love of learning, and the ability to fail, recover, and share lessons. Skills can be taught. Hunger can't.

Define what you believe. Hire for it relentlessly. Train for skill, reward growth, and build an environment people don't want to leave — and if they do, they still sing your praises.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

How are you positioning your services as essential rather than optional, and accurately measuring growth and profitability to sustain long-term success? How are you measuring your agency's growth and profitability? Today's featured guests unpack how they scaled their PR shop past the million-dollar mark in under four years — and their journey offers valuable insights that any agency owner can apply immediately. Learn why they prefer growing the agency as partners, as opposed to sticking to being solopreneurs, how they've been tracking their growth, and how to over-communicate with clients openly so that choosing you is the easiest decision.

Caitlin Copple and Holly Conti are the co-partners of Full Swing PR, an agency that offers senior-level PR services to help amplify clients' story or cause and takes pride in creating authentic, lasting relationships with clients. They discuss their unique partnership dynamics, their approach to quarterly planning and KPIs, and their philosophy on "practicing what you preach" in the agency world.

They also emphasize the importance of understanding client needs, demonstrating value, and the shift from focusing merely on publicity to generating tangible client pipelines.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Breaking the visionary and integrator partner mold.

• Making sure to walk the walk in your own business.

• How to make your business a 'must-have'

Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Breaking the Visionary-Integrator Mold

Caitlin started Full Swing solo, but always kept Holly in mind as the ideal partner for her business after they met working at an agency. It took some time, though, since Holly was first pregnant when Caitlin started the agency and then busy being a mom to a newborn. However, her involvement progressed, first as a moonlighter, then the agency's first employee, and eventually becoming the co-pilot Caitlin had always envisioned.

Founder duos often get asked about who identifies as the "visionary" or the "integrator." In their case, Caitlin and Holly both think big and get in the weeds. They take turns in both roles, which makes it complicated, but it works with a dose of brutally clear communication and mutual respect.

Why work like this? It all comes from their beginnings as working moms in the business. As they explain, they initially treated it like a job share tagging each other in and out in the early days so they could both keep the wheels turning — and the babies fed.

Partner Up or Burn Out

Some agency owners do prefer to fly solo, but for the ones stuck doing it all alone — losing sleep over payroll, client churn, or the next contract that might vaporize overnight — Caitlin and Holly are living proof that a solid partner is worth their weight in gold.

Having someone to say "we got this" when a contract gets pulled from underneath you is priceless. Sure, partnerships are basically work marriages (with all the ups and downs). But good ones make the tough days survivable — and the big wins that much sweeter.

Walk Your Talk or Get Called Out

Do you make sure your agency is practicing what you preach? Or are you one of the agencies that just "can't find the time" to work on their own website or marketing?

Too many agencies hide behind 'we're too busy with client work' while their own site looks like it was built in 1997 by a drunk intern.

In their specific case as a PR agency, Caitlin and Holly practice the tenacity they teach their clients to have. "PR is about tenacity. It's not enough to do good work. People need to see you doing it." Just like they tell clients to show up consistently, be visible, and ask for what they want. They make sure to do the same.

Furthermore, putting yourself in your clients' shoes as small business owners will help you intimately understand the challenges they face and understand the investment they're making on your agency and how much they're betting on the results you can bring. For Caitlin, this means taking people "from publicity to pipeline," because she understands as a small business owner how important it is to have four time the sales you need to meet your annual budget.

In other words, treat your own agency like your most important client — or watch it slowly bleed opportunities.

Quarterly Planning, KPIs, and the Secret Sauce

So much can change in just one year (as we all have seen with the last couple of years). In the six years they've been in business, Caitlin and Holly have been through a pandemic, an AI revolution, and the economy doing somersaults. At this point, planning once a year and forgetting about it seems like a rookie move.

They still set annual goals, of course. But quarterly check-ins are essential to running the day-to-day behind their million-dollar PR engine. Their leadership team meets every week to ensure that quarterly plan is still reality-proof.

Revenue is Cool, But Calls Are King

Although they do have a topline revenue goal and a profit margin goals for the agency, their north star isn't revenue — it's discovery calls.

After realizing there was much more to building a profitable business than hitting the $1 million mark, Caitlin and Holly have been focusing more on pipeline and conversion rates. They know that if they keep discovery calls flowing, the revenue follows.

Right now, if they book 10 calls with good fits, five become paying clients. That's a predictable pipeline.

Pro tip: Track leading indicators religiously — site visits, key page hits, opt-ins, booked calls, and conversion rates at each step. If something's off (like calls dropping off, or deals stalling), they fix that exact leak before it kills the next quarter.

So, if you're still flying blind, eyeballing topline revenue in your QuickBooks and calling it planning —you're normal… but you're leaving money on the table.

How to Make PR (or Any Service) a Must-Have

In this economy, how to get clients to see your work more as a must-have than a "nice-to-have"?

In down markets, budgets get slashed — but essentials don't. So how do you become an essential? You don't chase anyone who's just looking for a PR vanity headline. You focus on clients who want a pipeline, not just press.

If you're having a hard time to get clients to see you as an essential, you may be talking to the wrong people. Think about your ideal clients. What do they believe? What are their challenges?

If you define your ideal client and start targeting them, you'll attract people who truly see the value you can bring to their business.

Over-Communicate. Then Double It

Caitlin and Holly share their process openly with prospects. Step by step. No secrets.

Some agencies worry they're giving away the farm. Newsflash: they're not. Clients want to trust you know what you're doing — but they don't want to do it themselves. Everyone loves steak but no one wants to butcher a cow.

Their transparency means no confusion, no scope drama, and no "you didn't say that" fights later. It's all upfront.

And they even turned this transparency into a smart private podcast: "How to Hire a PR Agency" — a brilliant piece of sales enablement they send to prospects to handle all the FAQs before a call. That way, discovery calls stay focused where they should be: the client's business.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Ever thought about niching down, then bailed because it sounded too painful? Or maybe you tried, but ditched it when things got awkward? Today's guest proves why sticking it out is worth the initial pain — not just to find your niche, but to find the perfect business partner too. Meet Daniel Moscovitch, founder of Flooring Pros Marketing, a digital marketing agency focused on helping established flooring businesses throughout the US & Canada cement their position as the best in their market. He started as a generalist - doing SEO for pretty much anyone with a website and a pulse. However, unsatisfied staying just another "me too" shop competing on price and freebies he doubled down on a single, very specific industry.

If you're thinking "That sounds brutally hard…" you're right. And that's exactly why his story is worth paying attention to.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Moving beyond simple SEO to offer comprehensive solutions.

• How clarity helped him find perfect alignment with his second business partner.

• Leveraging AI for strategic decision-making and process improvement.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Picking a Hard Niche is One Thing. Surviving It is Another.

Daniel didn't just decide to niche down overnight. He did what most agency owners do: listened to advice on the matter, got inspired, and then slammed into reality.

The first big obstacle he did not expect was letting go of "easy money" and legacy clients to go all-in on a focused market. He knew it was the right call but dropping old accounts and income streams wasn't fun.

Next, it was building trust in a market that didn't trust marketers.

Turns out, flooring companies aren't like your typical trades. They're often run more like retail stores than contractors. Multiple locations. Bigger payroll. Savvier buyers. And they've been burned by bad marketing agencies before.

So just ranking them on page one of Google was not enough. Daniel learned fast that his new niche didn't just want leads they wanted the whole system: branding, follow-up, sales process, outreach, repeat business.

In other words: the actual solution not just SEO. Because the real lesson here is about getting under the hood of your client's real pain points, not just selling your "service of the month."

Authority is Earned One Small Win at a Time

If you're wondering why Daniel didn't quit (although he did consider it many times), it wasn't because niching was easy.

He stuck with it because he saw the momentum stacking up:

• A podcast appearance got him in front of flooring pros.

• A trade show speaking gig landed him more eyes.

• He sponsored a Facebook group.

• He kept learning exactly what flooring clients actually needed and then built the solutions, piece by piece.

One client turned into two. Then five. Then fifteen.

Today Daniel's agency is firmly planted as the go-to marketer for flooring pros. He now has the authority, pricing power, and clarity he didn't have as a generalist.

Key Takeaway: Don't Quit When it Gets Awkward

Daniel didn't win because flooring was "easy money." He won because he stuck with it long enough to know more about flooring marketing than any other agency out there.

Most agency owners quit when it gets awkward - or flip niches too fast. Bottom line: the best niche isn't the easiest — it's the one you hang with long enough to become the undeniable authority.

Clarity First, Everything Else Second

When he started his SEO agency, Daniel was living in Tel Aviv, working at an SEO agency. Since not a lot of people knew about Search Engine Optimization there, it seemed like an opportunity to go on business on his own, which he did alongside another American friend who also wanted to start his own business.

That partnership worked fine for the first couple of years, until it didn't. After Daniel moved back to the US, the relationship felt like playing Tug-of-War. They lived on different time zones, had competing interests and visions and the best call was for each to continue on their own path. It wasn't easy. Daniel has spent the last two years picking up the pieces and setting a new vision for his business.

• Who are we?

• Who should we not serve?

• What kind of agency do we actually want to be?

That search for a new stage attracted a new partner — someone who brought the exact pieces Daniel needed, at a moment when he finally had the clarity that's so hard (and so damn profitable) to get right.

Only after that did he attract a new partner - someone who brought missing business expertise and industry knowledge. That alignment supercharged sales and positioned them to charge more and work with better clients.

AI as an Unexpected Business Therapist

Daniel admits: he's a strategist, not a "numbers guy." But instead of hiring an expensive consultant, he leaned heavily on AI tools like ChatGPT to interrogate his processes, nail down his goals, and even fix onboarding gaps that caused early-client headaches.

Great owners use AI not to replace people, but to think better and move faster - especially when you can't see your own blind spots.

Pro tip: Have AI interview you about your agency goals. It forces clarity you might avoid on your own.

Rebuild Processes Before You Scale

With ChatGPT as a voice he can bounce business ideas off of, Daniel has been working on developing clearer processes. While he used to shy away from these conversations, afraid to uncover huge flaws in the business, he now happily dives into deep strategy work to improve client communication and expectations.

For instance, the first 100 days with a new client can feel like a ghost town and that can spook even the best-fit clients. Daniel's fix? Using AI and team workshops to tighten internal and external communication, so clients stay engaged while you work. This is crucial for avoiding churn and turning strategy into execution faster.

There's No One-Size-Fits-All Path

Daniel's advice for agency owners is to avoid comparing themselves to peers at all cost. Everyone is on their own path and success is better defined individually. Had he followed common advice, he would've never gotten into a second partnership, which has really helped the agency's growth. Furthermore, his growth was slower by choice, but deeper because he focused on getting the right clients and the right team before chasing pure revenue.

As Jason says: "There's no silver bullet - only silver pieces you combine into your own version of success."

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Let's get real.

If you're stacking your agency's foundation on $20/month AI tools, congrats—you're in the honeymoon phase. But don't confuse cheap for stable. This ain't gonna last.

We're in the Uber moment of AI. Remember those $3 rides in 2015? Promo codes flying like candy? Everyone thought, "This is amazing." Then BOOM—same ride today costs $30, and you don't blink. Why? Because they normalized the spend.

AI is doing the same damn thing right now.

The Calm Before the Price Surge

I was chatting with an agency owner the other week—four-person team doing the work of twenty. She's saving close to $800K in salary using AI. Impressive? Hell yeah. But also? Fragile.

Because when AI replaces two full-time employees, it's not going to stay cheaper than lunch forever. These platforms are buying loyalty today so they can raise rates tomorrow. And when they do, the agencies who built real systems will survive while the rest scrambles.

Automation Without Documentation = Fragile AF

Here's the trap I see all over the place:

Agencies getting lean and mean with automation… but not documenting jack.

So when a tool changes, prices spike, or a platform shifts—what happens?

They're rebuilding from scratch. Again.

Smart operators are using AI to build leverage, not just save time. And they're documenting the whole playbook outside the tools. Prompts. Logic. Decisions. Workflows. Everything. Because they know when OpenAI changes the rules (and they will), they'll just pivot—without panic.

3-Phase AI Survival Plan (That Actually Makes You Money) Phase 1: Audit + Adapt

• List every AI tool you use.

• Ask: "If this cost 10x tomorrow, what breaks?"

• Document your workflows without AI.

Don't skip this. You're looking for landmines now, so you're not surprised later.

Phase 2: Build AI-Augmented IP

• Productize one service using AI—but don't lean on it 100%.

• Build templates based on your brain, not just the bot's.

• Train your agents and save the training outside the tool.

Think like a software company, not a freelancer with ChatGPT.

Phase 3: Future-Proof Your Value

• Sharpen your skills. AI is smart, but notstrategic.

• Build one offer that works with zero automation.

• Stay close to smart operators. This is a gold rush. Don't go it solo.

This Isn't Anti-AI. It's Pro-Sanity.

AI is a tool. It's not your team. It's not your strategy. And it's definitely not your moat.

Use it. Document it. But don't depend on it.

Because when the rules change—and they will—the agencies that built real systems and resilient IP will still be standing.

Want a plan to build smarter leverage in your agency?

Check out the Agency Playbook. It's the 8-system framework we've used to help agency owners like Derek Champagne scale from 7- to 8-figures in under a year.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Ever wonder what separates a $1M agency from a $30M agency? It's not just better SEO or more employees. It's how you run the business behind the scenes. We sat down with today's featured guest to dig into what's powered his insane growth from barely crossing seven figures back when we first met… to now staring down $35–$40 million in pure service revenue. He's sharing some great advice on the evolution of his role as CEO, his new-found love for podcasting, and all kinds of golden nuggets for agency currently in the "no man's land".

Chris Dreyer is the CEO of Rankings.io, a law firm marketing services agency that delivers exceptional results for attorneys without compromising on customer service. He'll discuss his agency's substantial growth from under a million to over $30 million in revenue, his reliance on data and key performance indicators (KPIs), the transformative role of AI in various aspects of his operations, the importance of in-person client meetings for building relationships, and much more.

If you're still guessing your numbers or putting off tracking your team's time — you'll want to pay attention.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• The CEO's true job.

• Hidden agency growing pains.

• The key to client happiness.

• In-person hustle and outbound sales.

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This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Why Data Became Like a Religion

Back when Chris and I first locked ourselves in a tiny Atlanta room for a workshop, Rankings.io was barely peeking over the $1M mark. He was still deciding who to serve and how. Fast forward about 8-9 years to today, and he says there's no bigger reason for his success than his top-to-bottom data obsession.

Most agency owners track just enough to feel busy: a few pipeline numbers, maybe close rates if they're fancy. But Chris tracks everything.

He knows the lifetime value of a client paying $5K a month versus $10K a month. He knows exactly how each account manager's retention rate impacts revenue. He even scores sales reps like a fantasy football league.

And it's not just vanity metrics. If an account manager is great at keeping clients but terrible at preserving the original retainer size, they fix it. If time tracking shows poor utilization? They fix it. It's relentless.

The big unlock for him was getting a real CFO to build this machine — and shifting from QuickBooks to more robust systems like Sage. No more flying blind or hoping for the best. If you don't know your LTV, churn, win rates, and retention by the exact dollar, you're leaving growth up to luck.

How AI Became His Secret Weapon (and Why You Should Care)

Most agency owners dabble in AI: a blog here, a few prompts there. Chris has gone full cyborg.

Every single month, his team uploads their entire reporting package into ChatGPT. They don't just glance at dashboards — they get an AI board of advisors that points out trends, flags issues, and even suggests campaigns based on sales funnel leaks.

If they have clients applying but not booking, the AI says: launch a re-engagement sequence. If they're not sure why the expense spike looks off, the AI will cross-check it with your event calendar. Chris used to hate looking at financials — now AI does the heavy lifting.

When it comes to AI agents, they're not doing as much and prefer to use AI assistants for content, link building, and optimization. He even has an AI board of advisers with different personalities.

This isn't replacing people. It's leveling them up. It's like strapping a rocket to every role — so you can do more without burning out your team.

If you're not leaning on AI for context and next steps, you're probably making slower (and worse) decisions than your competitors.

The CEO's True Job: Gotta Catch 'em All

Now that he's running an agency pushing $40M in service revenue (not pass-through, real revenue) Chris defines his role as: "Playing people Pokemon. Gotta catch 'em all. I get the clients, and my president keeps them."

He sets the vision, runs point on marketing and sales, hosts the podcast, and stays the face of Rankings.io. Meanwhile, his right-hand man, Stephen, owns retention and delivery. This split lets Chris hunt big opportunities without getting bogged down in fulfillment fires.

It's the perfect example of how an owner's role must evolve. If you're still stuck in the weeds, wearing every hat, and calling that "leadership" — you're capping your agency's growth.

The goal isn't to do everything. It's to build a team that does everything better than you ever could alone. And Chris's story is living proof.

The Hidden Growing Pains Nobody Warns You About

Ever heard of the dreaded "no man's land" for agencies? For Chris, it began after he crossed the $8M to $10M mark and things got painfully awkward fast.

In this stage, you're forced to hire the roles that don't directly bring in revenue: HR, finance, middle managers. Suddenly, your once-scrappy margins start leaking everywhere. It feels counterintuitive, all these new salaries, and yet no extra billables. But here's the catch: this is the awkward but necessary step that'll set you up with the infrastructure to move from $10M to $15M, $20M or beyond.

This is generally the zone where you feel like an imposter CEO — one foot in the hustle, one foot in the corporate world you swore you'd never build. The truth is, every growing agency owner faces this inflection point. And if you get it right, you build a structure that can handle scale. If you get it wrong, you risk staying stuck at the same revenue ceiling year after year.

You Can't Turn It Off — And Maybe That's Okay

Most founders agree they find it difficult to turn their business brain off, and honestly, they don't want to. Business is the hobby. While their kids are at soccer practice, their brain is rewriting the service agreement or tweaking a proposal.

Sure, there's a cost. Vacations come with podcast episodes in the car. Weekends sometimes mean scanning P&L spreadsheets. But, as Jason and Chris admit: the key to staying sane isn't to "balance it perfectly" — it's to have the right partner who gets the obsession.

Because when you're building a business that supports dozens, even hundreds of families, switching it off just isn't realistic. So you find the support system that lets you go all in and come home for dinner.

Why Core Values Actually Matter

Early on, you might roll your eyes at "company core values." Chris admits he did and saw it as just a lot of fluff. But once you're managing 50, 100, or more people, vague values don't cut it — you need a shared language to protect the culture.

His agency now runs on three non-negotiables:

• Excellence (do great work, always)

• Execution (don't just talk, get it done)

• Grit (stick with hard things for the long haul)

While he used to rely on platitudes like "team player" — he sees now that the wrong person will be weeded out fast as long as the core values are clear. He also bails at the mention of "work-life balance" in an interview. Because for this team, the culture is built for people who like working hard.

The Surprising Key to Client Happiness

Think your killer case studies will keep clients happy forever? Think again. Client happiness is very subjective and your biggest churn risk isn't bad work — it's bad relationships.

Sure, you can track Net Promoter Scores all day. But real retention comes from catching early warning signs, which Chris calls "saves". A client going quiet, missing calls, or hinting they're not vibing with an account manager should be signs to take action, if you start tracking them, as he has.

And here's the overlooked move more agencies need to revive: visit your clients in person. Everyone's got Zoom fatigue. Booking a flight and breaking bread goes a long way toward making you not just a vendor, but a trusted partner.

How In-Person Hustle and Outbound Hunting Keep You on Top

Even with all the fancy dashboards, AI copilots, and mega forecasting tools, Chris and his president still jump on planes to shake hands with clients. They even budget for it.

When you're running a high-ticket service where each client can be worth $125,000 or more over their lifetime, dropping a couple grand to show up in person is a no-brainer. It's how you show you care more than the next guy who's sending templated emails and hiding behind Slack.

Chris's take is simple: Want to stand out? Do what you say you're going to do. Show up. Make your clients look like heroes. When a big-name CEO flies out to see you — even if you didn't sell them the deal — you remember that. Big relationships should get the handshake treatment.

Using AI for Confidence in an Agency Acquisition

Chris didn't buy another agency until he was already pushing $30 million, while most owners pull that trigger way earlier to leapfrog plateaus.

Why wait? According to Chris, he didn't have the confidence to do it. Until AI changed that.

He used ChatGPT to run diligence questions, draft the LOI, check for financial holes, and sanity-check the entire earnout structure. Sure, he has a great CFO — but that AI second brain made the whole thing faster and way less intimidating.

Now that he's got the first deal under his belt, he's hungry for more. That's how scale works: get clarity, take the shot, rinse and repeat.

Pro tip: If you're scared to buy, partner, or hire, dump your numbers into AI. Ask it what it would worry about if it were buying you. It'll show you every skeleton in the closet — so you can fix them now.

Why Outbound Sales is Your Insurance Policy

Chris used to be very resistant to doing outbound but now it is saving him from the Google rollercoaster.

Inbound is sexy when it works. But we all know it can be feast or famine. Algorithms change. Referrals dry up. And you're stuck hoping this month's pipeline looks like last month's.

After getting tired of hoping, Chris built an outbound team that's now about 30 people deep. He's got BDRs making 50 high-quality calls a day, sending out handwritten notes with books, running multi-channel outreach, and gifting prospects to cut through the noise.

Each practice area has its own sales enablement rep feeding lists, building sequences, and arming the closers with context. It's consistent and it means Rankings.io can hunt, not just fish.

Big lesson: if you don't control at least three lead sources (inbound, outbound, and strategic partners), your agency's growth is on borrowed time. Don't put all your eggs in Google's basket. Outbound is insurance.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

How does a print designer become the founder of a thriving strategic web agency? Spoiler: It wasn't all smooth sailing. But this agency founder figured out how to stop being the bottleneck, leverage systems and AI, and make his agency way more profitable along the way. It all began by creating a digital brain for his agency.

In this episode, Shawn Johnston, owner of Forge and Smith, a Vancouver-based agency shares how he's been building bespoke WordPress sites for 13+ years. He'll share his story—and some seriously smart tips for agency owners looking to scale and create more freedom in their agency.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why documenting your processes is key to scaling

• How to use AI to build a "digital brain" for your agency

• How to step out of day-to-day work and empower your team

• Tips for focusing your team on high-value, strategic work

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

From Print Design to Web Agency Owner

Like a lot of us, Shawn didn't set out to build an agency. He started as a print designer back in 1996, cranking out newspaper ads when CSS came on the scene, sparking heated debate at the office over whether it would change the internet or not.

Shawn got curious, taught himself to code, and started building sites on the side.

What started as a hobby turned into freelancing… and when the 2008 housing collapse hit, he went all in. He hustled hard on Craigslist, building $1,500 WordPress sites and quickly realizing he was making more than his day job.

This gave way to his first lesson in business: Hustle works early on, but you can't scale without systems.

When He Knew It Was a "Real" Agency

Starting out, Shawn was able to handle all the WordPress development, design, and strategy by himself. By setting up some repeatable pieces, he was able to grow his client list, with some of them coming back for site support. As projects stacked up, however, he hit a wall: He couldn't sell, deliver, and support all at once.

He decided his first hire would handle client support, so he could free up time for higher-value work. From there, he slowly backed himself out of development… then strategy… then design - replacing himself piece by piece.

Of course, this didn't automatically erase all the agency's problems. Initially, it only created a new set challenges. Adding new pieces to the team made their lack of documented processes very clear. For a while, the handoff confusion created meant everything continued to run through Shawn... The real issue was that there was too much knowledge trapped in his head.

Why Documented Processes Are the Key to Scaling

The obvious solution was to start documenting everything from UX components to strategy guides to build quality standards. From that point on, everyone knew who was responsible for what and at what point. The goal wasn't to limit creativity but to empower the team to make smart decisions without running to Shawn for answers.

For Shawn, a focal point of this shift had to be underlying the agency's why. Everyone on the team had to be very clear on: Why do we work with clients the way we do? Why are we doing things this way and not that way? Making sure everyone understood the overall goals would inform the decision-making, cultural aspects, and would help the team work cohesively.

Documented systems = freedom for you and clarity for your team. Win-win.

The Next Step: Creating a 'Digital Brain' for Your Team

Fast forward to today, and Shawn is using AI to level up even more.

He records and transcribes sales calls, discovery calls, and proposal work—then synthesizes it into a knowledge base his team can actually use. No more "Shawn said this one thing on a call" confusion mid-project. The team can look back at the records and apply direction to move forward without him.

We've talked about the next step with AI for agency owners: train an AI assistant on your agency's entire knowledge base.

That means training it with everything you have in your knowledge bank, including:

• Past client insights

• Brand guidelines

• Design patterns

• Sales conversations

• Internal processes

Apply these practices ASAP so that your team can tap that knowledge instantly — without pinging you for answers. Think of it as your agency's "digital brain" and the key to your freedom.

Why Low-Code + Prebuilt Systems Are Boosting Profits

One of Shawn's smartest moves has been leaning hard into reusable systems and low-code tools.

He's baked strategy into UX components, aligned dev processes with design frameworks, and streamlined builds so 80% of each site is repeatable. That frees the team to focus on the 20% that really matters—the strategic stuff that drives results (and justifies premium pricing). More profit, faster delivery, better outcomes. Everybody wins.

Ready to Stop Being the Bottleneck in Your Agency?

If you're tired of everything running through you and want your team making smart decisions without constant handholding. Then it's time to plug into a community of agency owners who've figured this stuff out. Inside the Agency Mastery Mastermind, you'll learn exactly how to: -Document and systematize your agency's IP -Leverage AI to scale your team's capabilities -Increase profit margins with smarter processes -Step fully into the owner seat—so you can lead, not grind

You don't have to figure this out alone. Come hang out with the smartest agency owners scaling today.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Have you ever found yourself grinding endlessly, only to pause and think, "Is this really what I signed up for?" Maybe you started your business chasing freedom—only to end up feeling trapped by the very thing you built. It's a common trap: the belief that working harder and enduring more pressure will eventually earn you the right to enjoy life after a big exit.

But as today's guest discovered, you don't need to wait 10 more years to start living. What you really need is a clearer why, a stronger structure, and the right people around you—people who understand your vision and support your growth.

Blake Denman is the president and founder of Rickety Roo, a remote agency specializing in SEO and paid search marketing. He'll discuss his unconventional path into entrepreneurship, which was influenced by a personal injury, and the importance of designing your business and life around personal values, not just growth for growth's sake. He also shares his time management strategies, how he uses AI for self-reflection, and his perspective on the mental load of entrepreneurship.

If you're an agency owner still doing everything—from ops to admin to taxes—you'll relate to his story.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Strategic hires that might results in your identity crisis.

• Designing your life before it designs you.

• Time audits, energy filters & the "$5K task" rule.

• Figuring out what you actually want.

• Do you thrive in chaos? Manufacture some healthy pressure.

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Wix: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

The Moment that Forced Him to Slow Down

Blake didn't set out to build an agency. Like a lot of agency owners, he fell into it. What started as freelancing to pay the bills while he finished school and pursued a different career path took a hard left turn—literally—when a serious bike accident landed him with a traumatic brain injury.

That moment forced Blake to slow down. Rebuild. Rethink.

And when he got back into client work, he realized something: just because you can do it all doesn't mean you should.

Like many agency owners, he hit the familiar ceiling of capacity. So he started hiring. First contractors. Then a coach in 2019. That's when the game really changed.

The Pivot Point: Strategic Hires (and the Identity Crisis That Follows)

When you've built your agency from the ground up, letting go isn't just hard—it can mess with your head.

One of the pivots that really made a difference in Blake's agency was the strategic hires that required him to let go of some areas of the business. For instance, when he finally handed over operations. "I was like that John Travolta meme—just looking around wondering what to do with myself."

And that's the truth no one talks about: letting go of operations isn't just a tactical decision. It's emotional. You've tied your identity to being the guy who does everything. And suddenly… you're not.

That shift sparked something deeper—what Blake calls "identity paralysis." Not a crisis, but a freeze. A moment of, "If I'm not the operator, who am I now?"

Spoiler: that question is the start of real CEO-level growth.

Designing Your Life (Before It Designs You)

Most agency owners plan every quarter like a military op: KPIs, OKRs, revenue targets.

But how many plan their life that way?

Blake started mapping his ideal year: the trips, the purchases, the experiences. Then he calculated what income he actually needed to live that life.

We're mostly led to believe those goals are too far away, but the first time he did this he was just $1,500/month off.

So many agency owners think they need to sell their business to finally live the life they want. But often, you don't need to sell—you just need to restructure. What if the business could serve your life now instead of being the thing you have to escape?

Time Audits, Energy Filters & the "$5K Task" Rule

Most people say they value their time but let it slip through their fingers, which is why you need a time tracking method that works for you.

After trying a few, Blake got a framework from one of his early coaches. He categorizes his weekly tasks into four buckets: $5, $50, $500, and $5,000/hour value.

If you think your time is worth $5,000 but the time audit shows its mostly spent in the $5 or $50 buckets, congrats—you've just diagnosed why your growth is stuck and your energy's tanked. To his surprise, this is what happened to Blake, who was spending way more time than he thought on the $5 and $50 columns.

You don't scale by doing more. You scale by doing less of the wrong things.

What Do You Actually Want?

If your agency isn't giving you time, freedom, and joy… what the hell are you building it for?

Blake now runs his agency with zero calls on Mondays. Focus time is blocked. The calendar is color-coded. And most importantly, the business doesn't need him 60 hours a week to grow. He also has the whole team on Brain.fm, a tool that uses science-backed audio to get you in the zone faster.

Some would call that a lifestyle business, but so what? Lifestyle business can be extremely profitable too. Why not build your business around what you like and don't like? People who struggle for 20 years to then sell their agency find that after all their work they have maybe ten years left to do the things they want to do.

Lessons for the Owner-Operator Ready to Evolve

If you're reading this and feeling that twinge—that mix of burnout and "I want more" clarity—take these cues from Blake:

-Let go of the identity that your agency is you. -Map your ideal life, then build your business to fund it. -Hire for elevation, not just delegation. -Your value isn't in the tasks you do. It's in the vision you hold.

From the Hustle Hamster Wheel to the Hedonic Treadmill

You want the 8-figure agency, right? So did Blake.

Until he realized that every time he hit a new goal, he'd feel good for a week… maybe five days. Then it was back to baseline. This is what's called the Hedonic Treadmill—and agency owners live on it without realizing it.

We chase growth for growth's sake. Or worse, for external validation—from peers, clients, even family.

Blake stopped to think about what was next after he had the money. Was he supposed to save it? Spend it? Did he even need that much? Define what you want your life to look like, and build your agency to support that. Don't fall into the trap of chasing growth for validation more than for yourself.

If you let go of the idea of just hitting a number, surround yourself with the best team and clients, and set your priorities, you'll be able to go after what you really want and live your best life.

Agency Owners & the Calm in the Chaos

Most agency owners have had the type of upbringing that's them great under pressure. Calm in chaos. Laser-focused when everything's on fire.

Of course, this can also become a trap if you start creating chaos just to feel normal. For instance, you may seek pressure to push you into action.

In his case, after years of needing the chaos, Blake turned to Claude to figure out a way to manufacture chaos without the disastrous consequences.

His AI coach creates a "painful penalty" for missing a goal. For instance, donate $1,000 to a political group you can't stand if you miss a revenue target. That'll light a fire.

Point is: for some people motivation isn't just about dreaming big. If you need some added pressure to get working engineer consequences that make staying small more painful than pushing forward.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

What really happens after you sell your agency? Brent Weaver, founder of UGURUS, knows firsthand — and it wasn't the beach-and-cocktails story most agency owners imagine. In this second half of our conversation, Brent opens up about what really happens after you sell a business, why his team stuck around (when they had every reason to bolt), navigating the shift from entrepreneur to executive within a corporate machine. He also lays down a fresh perspective on where agencies are headed in the AI era — and why human advantage is still your biggest asset.

If you missed Part One, go back — it sets the emotional stage. This one dives into the raw aftermath.

Brent Weaver is a veteran digital agency founder who scaled UGURUS, sold it not once, but twice, and is now charting a new course inside a larger ecosystem. But behind the polished LinkedIn update is a journey filled with doubt, identity shifts, and deep loyalty to team and customers.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• What no one tells you about life after a big exit

• How Brent is using AI at scale inside E2M

• Why "human advantage" still wins in an AI-driven world

• The risk agencies face if they treat AI like a gimmick

• How to protect clients from the "accountability gap" AI creates

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

What Really Happens After the Deal Closes

When most agency owners fantasize about the big exit, they think freedom, cash, maybe a beach. But Brent paints a more nuanced picture:

"Selling is one of the most emotional business events you can go through. You feel every end of the spectrum — excitement, fear, uncertainty."

And no, he didn't tell the team beforehand because he wasn't even sure himself. Looking back, he remembers asking himself: 'Is this what I want? What's going to happen to our customers? Our team?'

Spoiler: Nobody left. Because Brent didn't cash out and disappear. He pushed hard to give people incentives to stay, rolled up his sleeves, and stayed to help 10x the next chapter.

Brent's first acquisition with Cloudways was scrappy, entrepreneurial, and chaotic in a good way. But once DigitalOcean came into the picture everything changed. Some of the team joined a small company where they had a voice — then suddenly, it was all process, approvals, structure. And not everyone loves that.

More recently, after staying at the newly-acquired agency, Brent took a step back from a direct client-facing role. At the same time, he had a bigger role in the back office, so despite people not seeing him as much, they also knew he was still around working on the business.

To his knowledge, no one left because of the acquisition. The agency saw the normal amount of churn for the business but all clients and team members knew that Brent was trying to provide a sense of continuity after the sale.

Why the Learning Curve is Shorter — and Scarier

BBack when Brent started learning about the business, he had no idea how to write a proposal. He didn't know anyone in the industry who could orient him, and ended up writing one in the only format he knew: a high school essay. It was bad. It talked about his interests, why he was trustworthy and why they should hire him.

Comparing that experience from the early 2000s to now, where kids are doing triple backflips on BMX bikes at age 12 because they can watch the trick 10 minutes after it's invented on Instagram, the speed at which someone can learn anything now is incredible. And even overwhelming.

For agency owners, this means two things:

1. There's never been a better time to start.

2. There's never been a harder time to stand out.

AI, Meta, and the Future of Agencies

Ever since WordPress came out, everyone thought agencies were dead. To Brent, all it did was create more demand for people who knew how to use it.

Same with Meta's new tools or any AI platform. Brent's take is clear: The tools will make advertising more accessible. But that will actually increase demand for agencies who know how to go deeper.

In his view, there's no world where his old restaurant client — who had a flip phone and a fifth-grade education — was ever going to run his own ads. He just wants to cook.

Translation: AI doesn't replace relationships. It just raises the bar on what value you're bringing to that relationship.

Infusing AI Horizontally Across a Business: Brent's New Role at E2M

The reality is, even in the AI era people still crave trust and connection. Even in a world where AI is analyzing spreadsheets and diagnosing ad performance better than most marketers, the decision to act still comes down to a human being. "I look at a spreadsheet," Jason says, "and I want to throw up. But I put it into AI, and suddenly I get clarity." That's the shift—AI can sift through the noise, but humans still make the call.

Business owners aren't about to turn over their bank accounts to a voice assistant. There's always going to be a place for a trusted advisor—someone who knows the game, who gets results, and who's got skin in it with you. For agencies, that's the edge. If you can interpret the data and turn it into action, you're still wildly valuable.

This isn't about one person nerding out on ChatGPT after hours. AI isn't a tool for the top—it's a mindset for the whole team. At E2M, he's stepping into a leadership role to help infuse AI horizontally across the company. That means operations, creative, sales—everyone using AI not as a crutch, but as a co-pilot.

The agencies that survive the next wave will be the ones who stop treating AI like a gimmick and start treating it like a business partner. Brent's advice: don't wait. Start now, even if it's nights and weekends. Fire yourself from every job you're not elite at. And that now includes jobs that AI can do faster, better, and at scale. "Leverage these tools to gut-check your deliverables," he says. "You owe it to your clients."

The Legal Line and the Accountability Gap

But it's not all upside. Brent drops a crucial warning about accountability. AI might be amazing at cranking out contracts, pitch decks, and even deal structures—but if it screws up, who takes the hit? If chat tells you to jump off a bridge, and it goes south, you're not suing OpenAI," Brent jokes. You're just canceling your $20 subscription.

And that's where real coaches, consultants, and experts still matter. There's a human soul to leadership, and a layer of accountability AI can't (and maybe shouldn't) touch. The smart play? Start with AI to generate, then apply your judgment to validate.

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