Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Are you still running your agency like it's 2010?

You know the setup: rigid roles, top-down management, a "just get it done" culture.

If that sounds like your agency, chances are you're the bottleneck. You're stuck in the weeds, making every single decision, dealing with high churn, and wondering why output is low despite how hard everyone's working.

This is the story for most agency owners at the 7-figure stage. But the agencies scaling fastest today have evolved—and we're breaking down exactly how.

Why Most Agencies Get Stuck

Most agency owners didn't plan to be CEOs. You were good at strategy, sales, design, or delivery. Then suddenly—boom—you're the boss. Now the team looks to you for every decision, every review, every answer.

The problem isn't your team. It's the lack of vision. When there's no clear direction, your team can't lead themselves—because they don't know where the hell they're going.

Once I clearly communicated the mission—"We're building the resource I wish I had"—everything changed. Decisions got made without me. Accountability rose. That's what happens when people lead toward a clear goal.

Key shift: You don't need more doers. You need more leaders.

Attracting A-Players (Not Babysitting B-Teamers)

A-players cost more—about 20% more on paper—but they produce 10–20x more than your average B-level staffer. They don't need to be told. They take ownership.

So how do you attract them?

Build a brand people want to belong to. Ramblin Jackson, one of our mastermind members, calls their team "Ramblers." It's fun. It creates identity. It's not just a job—it's a tribe.

Make your job posts feel like sales letters. "Here's who we are. Here's why it matters. Here's what you'll help us build." Ramblin even walks candidates through the hiring process on their site to build trust.

Put your team on display. Show them off on your website, on social, in your wins. A-players don't just want just a job, they want purpose. Make it visible.

Building a High-Performing Culture

Great teams don't happen by accident. They're built on clarity, feedback, and connection.

Here's how to build a culture that scales:

• Communicate Clearly. Use Looms instead of emails. Weekly standups. Show people what winning looks like—and support them to get there.

• Give & Receive Feedback. Quarterly ask: What should we start, stop, and continue doing? Then actually do something with those answers.

• Support Growth Paths. Not everyone wants to lead. Some want to be elite specialists. Either path is valuable—support both.

• Forge Connections on Purpose. Especially if you're remote. Retreats, local meetups, even casual Zooms help remind your team: we're building something together.

• Stop Managing. Start Coaching. Reviews are fine. But coaching is where the magic happens.

Ask your team:

"Where do you want to grow?"

"What ideas do you have to help the company grow?"

You're not just managing performance—you're investing in potential.

Then teach them the 131 Method to make better decisions without you:

• 1 What's the issue?

• 3 What are 3 possible solutions?

• 1 What's your one recommendation?

This trains your team to think like owners.

Also: stop assigning tasks—start assigning outcomes. Let them figure out the how. Debrief when things go sideways, but stop micromanaging. Growth comes from ownership.

Sustainability Is the Long Game

You can't grow a team if they're burned out, checked out, or walking out.

Here's how to protect your team's energy:

1. Cut the fluff meetings

2. Encourage real time off

3. Create space for recovery (mental health days, no-meeting weeks)

4. Celebrate wins publicly (Slack shoutouts, weekly recaps)

5. Keep people connected—virtually and IRL

Culture isn't perks. It's how people feel when they're building with you.

The traditional agency model is broken. You don't need more hands—you need more heads.

Build a team of leaders.

Create a culture of clarity, connection, and coaching.

Get out of the damn way—and let them fly.

If you're ready to attract better clients and become uncuttable, check out the Attract Masterclass. It will help you position your agency to pull in the right leads instead of just more leads.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Are you a CEO still caught in the weeds of day-to-day operations? If so, you're not building a truly scalable business. Today's episode is here to help you shift that mindset. Our featured guest is a CEO who has grown his agency by focusing on smart leadership—prioritizing culture, developing strong management structures, and intentionally making himself less essential to every meeting.

Like many agency owners, he once believed he had to outwork everyone to prove his worth. But over time, he discovered that the agency performs better when he leads with vision instead of constant presence and that CEOs don't need to be grinding to be effective. In this conversation, he shares how he came to that realization, what it's meant for his agency's growth and client success, how he built a trusted A-team, and more.

Kevin Miller is the co-founder and CEO of Gr0, a performance marketing agency that's exploded from startup to 200+ clients and over 80 full-time staff in just five years. Before launching GR0 in 2020, Kevin cut his teeth at Google, served as Director of Growth at OpenDoor, and was inspired to jump into the agency world by a friend who built and sold one of the first Facebook-focused DTC agencies.

His background in SEO and paid media, combined with experience at both bootstrapped and venture-backed companies, gives him a rare, well-rounded perspective. Today his mission is clear: build a high-performance team that wins together.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Two levers to driving growth.

• Why CEOs are more effective when they're not grinding.

• Understanding that delegation is not optional.

• Client acquisition that doesn't feel like sales.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Getting to See the Possibilities of the Agency Space

Watching a friend grow and sell a Facebook-focused DTC agency helped Kevin clearly see the differences between growing a bootstrap business versus a venture-capital backed business. His friend ended up selling the business for over $100 million, which Kevin hadn't think it was possible to do in the agency space.

It was an inspiring moment that led to the realization that he too could build and scale his own business, which he chose to do in the SEO niche.

From Zero to 200 Clients: The Growth Playbook

With just half a decade in the agency business, Kevin can see most people just can't handle it. "Every day is a different game of guacamole with all sorts of people problems." After all, in this business our product so the best way to guarantee you're creating a safe environment where people want to stay is to over index on culture.

This is how a young agency can go from scrappy startup to 8-figure beast in half a decade. It's all about building a culture that attracts and retains A-players.

If your account manager leaves, that client feels like they have to start over. It can be the worst experience for a client and the best way to avoid is to create an environment where everyone feels like part of a team. Kevin runs GR0 like an NBA franchise where everyone's expected to perform at a high level, without being a burnout factory. He's also very strict about behavior. No matter how talented you are, you can never be rude to a client or other employees.

It's a team-first culture with high accountability and even higher standards that has grown fast by keeping people, delivering great work, and staying crazy responsive.

Two big levers driving their growth:

Kevin attributes his agency's success with client to two main elements:

• Rapid response times: Emails, texts, Slack messages… they don't sit idle.

• Obsession with client results: Deliver, retain, and let referrals do the work.

Additionally, he knows it's not all about attracting new business. Churn is a killer. Retention isn't sexy, but it's the secret to compounding revenue.

Inside the Org Chart: A 5-Level Machine

In terms of the deals the agency is closing with clients, Kevin is a big believer that there's little room to do great work on a monthly basis, which is why he prefers offering six-month contracts that will later get renewed for another six months.

He's also put a lot of thought into the agency's organizational structure, which he breaks down into five levels:

1. Executive Team

2. VPs

3. Associate VPs / Directors (each running a service line)

4. Campaign Managers

5. Contractors & Specialists

As to him, his role as CEO is divided into three categories:

• Coach – Recruiting and leveling up 10x talent across the top team.

• Closer – Still active in sales, he sets expectations and closes high-value clients.

• Visionary – Driving innovation like launching new services (radio is next!) and adopting tools like ChatGPT for smarter, faster workflows.

You'll Be Needed Less & Less as a CEO – and That's Okay

Being a CEO won't necessarily come naturally to everyone, which is why Kevin has a coach that has taught him how to conduct himself and cast the vision for the agency. He's also embraced the fact that putting together a capable team will mean getting told they don't need you to pitch in on every meeting.

"If someone doesn't need me in a meeting, I'm relieved. It means we've built something scalable."

A true leader should be helpful and keep the company moving forward, which is why Kevin sees his role more as someone who works for everyone at the company, as opposed to the old model where bosses were tyrants that barked orders all day. It's not easy to lead 200+ employees, and leaders nowadays recognize that the way to do so is not just having a very strong team but also being able to keep them by building a great culture.

From Hustle Mentality to Smart Leadership

Kevin and Jason both admit they had to unlearn the "first one in, last one out" badge of honor.

Many leaders tend to think they have to outwork everyone. Kevin admits he still wrestles with showing up early to prove value—even though the company runs better when he focuses on vision, not presence.

The truth is agency CEOs don't need to be grinding to be effective. They need to be accessible, and they need to build teams that run without them.

"If I'm on a mountain or a golf course, and I get a call, I'll answer. But if the team doesn't need me? Even better," Jason shares.

This shift, from being the engine to being the guide rail, is one most agency owners struggle with. But letting go (and training others to step up) is the only way you get out of the weeds.

Delegation Isn't Optional—It's Leadership 101

Early on, Kevin believed only he could do the work "right." But that mindset capped his growth—and created unnecessary pressure.

Effective delegation and believing in your team is what makes a great CEO. As he says now, "you have to pass the ball and trust they'll show up."

If you're asking, "How should we do this?" you're already in the weeds. The better question is, "Who on my team should own this?"

If you need ideas, start with Jason's 1 3 1 method to train team decision-making is a killer takeaway:

1: What's the problem?

3: What are three ways to solve it?

1: What do you recommend?

It's a simple leadership tool that trains independence—so you're not the bottleneck every time something needs approval.

You Can't Build Big if You Can't Let Go

If you want to make sure you have people on your team who'll step up after applying the 1 3 1 method, hire people who can manage themselves. Kevin and Jason both agree they're not built to manage micro-tasks—or people who need micromanaging.

"If I'm going to manage someone, I'll expect them to do it like me, at my pace, with my level of commitment. And that's not fair," Kevin admits.

As owners, your growth is capped by how much you think you have to do. Build a team of leaders—not followers. Give direction, not checklists. And accept that mistakes are part of the process.

In the mastermind, Jason and the members celebrate even the failures—because sharing missteps keeps others from repeating them. That's how real learning happens.

Client Acquisition That Doesn't Feel Like Sales

Now let's talk lead gen.

How did Kevin's agency bring in over 200 clients? It wasn't ads. It wasn't cold emails. It was strategic referrals—and they engineered that pipeline from the ground up.

In Kevin's view, cold acquisition just doesn't work well with the amount of competition in his space. Instead, he built a network of warm referrals of ~25 trusted partners.

Each partner gets 10% of the monthly revenue from any referred client.

But more importantly, they only recruit partners who already know Kevin and trust his team to deliver.

"I'm not reaching out cold saying 'hey, I'll pay you 10%.' I'm building real relationships with people who already trust me."

This warm referral engine is the opposite of passive referrals. It's intentional, proactive, and mutually beneficial. It scales because Kevin didn't wait—he built the network years before launching GR0.

Most of the time referrals aren't scalable. However, when you do it this way—proactively recruiting the right partners—it becomes a one-to-many strategy.

This is a model more agency owners should be thinking about. It's lower friction, higher trust, and most importantly: it cuts through the noise in a saturated market.

Pricing, Positioning, and Playing the Long Game

One thing Kevin admits he should be raising prices more often.

GR0 started with $3,000/month clients and now charges $8K–$10K for the same package. But that evolution took five years.

Still, their market positioning is clear:

"We're expensive but fair. Not overpriced, not low-budget. Right in the sweet spot."

This ties back to the trust built with clients and referral partners alike. If the value is real and the results are consistent, the relationships last.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Agency owners often stay stuck in delivery because they fear stepping back will tank what's working. Brent Weaver shares how he transitioned from being the "product" to leading a 300-person agency without burning it all down—and why you need to step up if you want to scale.

What You'll Learn

• Why staying "in delivery" caps your growth
• How to stop being the product and build leaders around you
• How to set a real "North Star" so your team stops bugging you
• Why you need to know your numbers and stop blaming seasonality
• The mindset shift from VFR (gut decisions) to IFR (data-driven scale)

Key Takeaways

• Your agency won't scale if you're stuck in delivery. You must step back and coach leaders if you want freedom and growth.
• Clarity kills chaos. Set a clear vision so your team can act without needing you in every decision.
• Use the 1-3-1 method (1 problem, 3 options, 1 recommendation) to build leaders and stop being the fixer.
• Know your numbers. Seasonality is often a scapegoat for pipeline problems you can fix.
• Every change costs churn. If your change won't grow you by at least 20%, it's not worth the churn.
• Stop flying VFR. Use data to run your agency if you want to scale without chaos.

Are you still viewed as a 'product' of your agency? Maybe you've considered stepping back from the day-to-day but are terrified you'll break what's working. Our featured guest is the newly appointed CEO of E2M Solutions and he shares what it's been like going from being the main "product" at an agency he built and grew, to stepping in to run a 300-person white-label agency.

From losing the fear of breaking what already worked to accepting it's better if he's usually not in client call, he explains how he's grown comfortable in his new role: coaching the core leadership team, amplifying culture, and making sure hundreds of projects and thousands of tasks get executed well. Brent's journey is packed with lessons on what real leadership looks like when you're ready to grow.

Brent Weaver is the CEO of E2M Solutions, a 300-person white-label agency helping digital agencies scale through web, digital marketing, and AI services. Before E2M, Brent founded and grew UGURUS, supporting agencies to niche, price, and position better. Now, instead of talking about scaling, he's deep in the trenches doing it.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Stop being the product and build leaders around you

• How to set a real "North Star" so your team stops bugging you

• Why you need to know your numbers and stop blaming seasonality

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From "Gainfully Unemployed" to Leading 300 People

A few months before stepping in at E2M, Brent was living the dream: building a halfpipe in his barn and enjoying long walks on his property. Then, he jumped back in, this time not to build a new business, but to lead a 300-person agency that already had a killer product, a strong culture, and a commitment to service.

Brent's move is the dream scenario for many agency owners who've spent years in the grind. He joined a team that's already winning and is in the process of figuring out how to take it to the next level without screwing it up.

However, running an operation that serves hundreds of clients and handles hundreds of projects every month, the stakes are bigger, the team is bigger, and the impact is bigger. It's a different kind of pressure.

When You're No Longer "The Product"

If you're running a 5–20 person agency, you might feel like stepping up to a 300-person team would just mean 300 people interrupting you all day with Slack pings.

But Brent that's not how it works at that level. If you want to scale, you have to stop being the product.

At UGURUS, Brent was often the one jumping on client calls to "fix it." At E2M, he's focused on coaching the core leadership team, amplifying culture, and making sure hundreds of projects and thousands of tasks get executed well without him being the bottleneck. As he explains, even though he loves speaking to clients, there probably shouldn't be a situation where he HAS to jump on a call with them.

Brent believes agency owners should begin stepping back from daily agency operations once the team team grows to around 20 people. At this point, you should start to think about your business's leadership structure, management structure, and spend more time thinking about the "middle" of the business vs. just the vision.

Take note: If you're stuck in delivery and putting out fires, your agency won't scale.

Vision: Your Agency's North Star

If you've heard agency owners talk about the business "North Star," you know how critical it is to set a clear vision your team can rally around.

Your vision doesn't need to be some sappy paragraph you read before standups. It needs to be clear enough that everyone on your team can make decisions aligned with where you're going without bugging you every five minutes.

At E2M, Brent and his team know exactly where they're headed over the next three to five years—and every decision flows from that. This is true freedom to Brent. His vision of freedom is not one where he has lots of time off, but rather one where he can do his job as CEO without being micromanaged and can choose his path towards the agreed strategic objectives.

If you want to stop being the product at your agency and you still don't have this clarity, your team will constantly come to you, expecting you to make every call. If you want to get out of that cycle, set your North Star. Then, overcommunicate it.

The 1-3-1 Method to Building Leaders

If you're still solving every problem in your agency, try the 1-3-1 method Jason used:

• What's the 1 problem you're facing?

• What are 3 options you've considered?

• What's the 1 you recommend?

Teach your team to think critically and solve their own problems, and you'll stop being the default fixer. This is how you build leaders inside your agency instead of becoming the only adult in an adult daycare.

Don't Let "Do No Harm" Paralyze You

For Brent, being a good leader means getting down to why things are working or not working at the agency, with the same level of detail whether things are working or not. As a leader, if you don't have a firm grip on the business and why it's going up, down, or staying the same, you can't get a clear idea of how to improve the company or not damage what's working.

New CEO's often come in with the idea of "doing no harm" by changing things too much as they start. Think about it like this: Any meaningful change will cause about 20% churn. If the upside of your change isn't at least 20% growth, it's not worth it.

Don't be afraid of making changes. Just remember that if you decide to change the pricing, pivot your offer, or build a new division, it better be worth the churn it will inevitably create.

This mindset frees you to take the swings that actually move your agency forward.

The Seasonality Cop-Out

If you truly have a firm grip on the business, you'll also avoid the seasonality cop-out..

"Summer's slow." "Everyone's on vacation." "Budget freezes in Q4."

We've all heard it, but as Brent learned at Digital Ocean (where you either knew your numbers or got roasted), seasonality isn't causality.

If you see lead flow drop in the summer, don't blame the weather.

Look deeper: Are you running events that drive leads earlier in the year but have no Q3 pipeline activity? Do your ad campaigns pause when the kids get out of school?

You don't fix "seasonality" with wishful thinking. You fix it by identifying the root cause, putting numbers to the impact, and designing campaigns or partnerships to fill the gap.

If you want next June to be different, start planning now. Clarity over confusion wins every time.

Flying VFR vs. IFR: How Agency Owners Get Stuck

With both the interviewer and interviewee being licensed pilots, we of course got this banger analogy when talking about decision-making for agency owners:

• Visual Flight Rules (VFR): You fly by looking out the window, adjusting based on what you see.

• Instrument Flight Rules (IFR): You fly by instruments, allowing you to go further, faster, and more safely.

Most agencies operate under VFR, making gut decisions with limited data. This approach works when you're small, but to scale, you need to fly IFR, building a data system that tells you what's working, what's not, and what needs fixing.

At E2M, Brent is shifting the company to operate on data, allowing them to scale smarter and make big moves (like building out their AI and Go High Level divisions) with confidence.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

With clients increasingly expecting their agencies to leverage AI, are you waiting for client direction, or leading the way on how to use it? Today's featured guest has a unique vantage point on this shift. He runs a platform that connects clients with credible agencies while helping agencies showcase their expertise, giving him a front-row seat to what clients truly want and what agencies fear about AI.

With hundreds of thousands of agencies on his platform, he's seen firsthand that the agencies standing out are the ones leading the AI conversation, not waiting for permission to start it. He'll share why educating your clients on the possibilities of AI is now a competitive advantage and how his company's new verification layer aims to bring trust and clarity to an increasingly crowded agency marketplace.

Tim Condon is the Chief Revenue Officer at Clutch, the largest B2B service provider marketplace online, boasting over 300,000 agencies. Tim helps agencies showcase services, collect reviews, and attract qualified buyers. With a front-row seat to the challenges and wins of agencies across industries, Tim sees exactly how the best adapt—and how others risk falling behind.

Tim has been on the show before with advice on how agency owners can separate from the pack and position their agencies for success.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Is AI coming for your agency?

• Document your AI processes before it gets expensive.

• How you should be starting the AI conversation.

• The power of documented proof.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Is AI Coming for Your Agency? It Depends

The elephant in every agency Slack channel: Will AI replace us?

Tim sees a spectrum. Some agencies think they're immune ("We only serve local dentists, so we're safe."), while others are already using AI to transform delivery, productizing what used to be manual labor into scalable SaaS products for other agencies. Most agencies are stuck in the middle - unsure where to begin and afraid to fall behind.

Basically, if your clients are tech-savvy DIYers, yes, you're at risk. But 99% of clients aren't like that. They want the results AI brings, but they don't want to build or manage it themselves.

Hence, those who adopt AI to streamline delivery and elevate their positioning—not those who ignore it or just dabble, will win.

AI Isn't a Threat. It's Your Edge

AI is already making agencies faster, leaner, and more profitable if they leverage it correctly:

• Custom GPTs for marketing, sales training, and operations

• Automated research and lead qualification

• Speeding up delivery while maintaining quality

Tim shared an example of a San Francisco agency using LLMs to automate internal processes. It wasn't complicated: structured folders, an AI model to search and output organized results. Simple, but powerful.

If your agency isn't at least experimenting with AI to remove repetitive manual work, you're falling behind—not because AI will replace you, but because other agencies will outpace you by using AI to do what you do, faster and cheaper.

Document Your AI Processes Now (Before It Gets Expensive)

AI pricing today is like Uber in the early days: cheap to get you hooked, but it won't last. AI's current affordability is saving agencies the equivalent of multiple salaries annually. Eventually, these tools will increase in price to reflect their true value.

What can you do about this? Jason recommends documenting your workflows and data used to train custom GPTs or AI agents now. If pricing spikes or a model goes down, you can pivot to another provider without losing your institutional knowledge.

Why Agencies Must Shift from Order-Takers to Advisors

Most agencies fail not because they lack skills, but because they act like order-takers. As a clients, it's frustrating for Jason when agencies ask, "What do you want us to do?" instead of showing him what's possible.

Remember that as agencies, your purpose is to solve problems for your clients. Clients (dentists, local businesses, even large brands) don't know what's possible with AI. They think it's just a fancy chatbot. If you step up to educate and advise clients on what's possible with AI, you become indispensable.

Look to build systems that:

• Research prospects automatically before calls

• Automate competitor and market analysis

• Help clients leverage AI in their workflows

Agencies that step into this advisor role, showing clients what's possible and taking accountability for delivering results, become irreplaceable. You're not just executing tasks; you're creating outcomes they can't create alone, and that's where real value lies.

Don't Be Another "Nomad Agency." Be the Real Deal

Too many people who failed at running agencies pivot into teaching how to run an agency while living the "digital nomad" lifestyle, without having actually built sustainable businesses. This creates noise and mistrust in the marketplace, making it harder for real agencies to stand out.

Most of the time, agency owners are accidental entrepreneurs—people who mastered a skill and were asked to help, not those who started for the lifestyle. If you're listening to this, you're likely the latter. To stand out, you need to showcase not just what you can do but what you've actually done. Your wins, client results, and case studies speak louder than lifestyle photos on Instagram.

The Power of Specific, Documented Proof

If you want to stand out from the fly-by-night agencies, talk specifics. Others mostly speak in generalities. Instead, credible agencies share specifics. If you can clearly articulate, "Here's the exact problem we solved for a client just like you," then you instantly separate yourself from the pack. Tools like Clutch help because they use AI to pull themes from your reviews to match buyer intent, but your agency still needs to collect, showcase, and share detailed case studies and client stories.

Documentation matters. If you're working with SMBs or mid-market clients, they want to see clear, verified results before investing. When you can present proof, it's hard for low-quality competitors to compete, no matter how flashy their pitch decks look. Start gathering your "receipts" now to future-proof your positioning.

Verification Adds Trust in a Crowded Marketplace

Tim's company Clutch now offers Clutch Verified as an additional trust layer. They don't just take your word for it; they check your business registration, credit history, and operating longevity to separate real agencies from "gaming-the-system" players. It's a powerful way to signal to potential clients, "We're credible, stable, and vetted."

For clients, it's a good indicator of who you'll be working with and for agencies it becomes a sales asset. When potential clients research you on Clutch, verified agencies are prioritized, giving you an edge over competitors. It's a practical, low-cost step to build trust and signal legitimacy, especially if you're competing for premium clients.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

RJ Huebert went from corporate comfort to agency chaos—and nearly lost himself in the process. In this episode, he shares what it really takes to balance speed-to-lead sales with sanity, and how he's redesigning his agency life for more freedom, better clients, and real personal wellbeing.

Guest Overview

RJ Huebert is the founder of HBT Digital, a Pittsburgh-based lead gen agency helping clients capture high-quality leads through digital ads that convert. Former corporate marketer turned agency founder, RJ knows both sides of the game—and why it's harder than it looks.

What You'll Learn

• Why corporate escapees struggle more than expected in agency life
• The underrated power of speed in lead gen (and what most teams screw up)
• How to nurture not-yet-ready leads without annoying them
• What happens when your business always comes before your health and family
• How RJ is reclaiming time and rebuilding systems

Key Takeaways

• Speed wins deals: If your sales team isn't responding within minutes, you're losing leads.
• Nurture with value: Use short, high-impact videos instead of stale PDFs.
• Even Meta is doing email wrong: Don't copy the big guys—build trust instead.
• Agency life means 20 clients, not one boss: And that requires stronger boundaries.
• Health > Hustle: RJ's learning that health, family, and freedom must come first.
• The solution? Systems: You can't scale or shut your brain off without them.

Are you working harder than ever, but still can't turn your brain off—even on weekends? Today's featured guest is one of the many agency owners who has found it hard to find the right balance to take care of himself as well as the business. Like many agency owners, he made the leap from building someone else's business to finally building his own. But trading a cozy corporate job for the chaos of running an agency with dozens of clients wasn't as easy as it looked.

He shares the real challenges of sales, why speed is still the secret to winning leads, and how he's figuring out how to convert prospects who aren't quite ready to buy. Most importantly, he opens up about the ongoing struggle to find the right balance between health, family, and keeping the agency growing.

RJ Huebert is the founder of HBT Digital, a Pittsburgh-based lead generation agency helping clients pull in quality leads using online ads that actually convert. After 11 years of climbing the corporate marketing ladder, RJ got tired of building someone else's dream and decided to bet on himself—and it's paying off.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Why he stopped building someone else's dream.

• How speed wins in lead generation. Always be first to respond.

• Ways to nurture leads that are not ready to buy.

• Why boundaries and self care are more important now than ever.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Building Someone Else's Empire? Here's the Wake-Up Call

Like many agency owners before starting their own business, RJ was the corporate marketing guy building someone else's business, getting them rich, while rising through the ranks and learning how to actually drive results with digital marketing. Also like many others, he hit a moment of questioning whether it was worth it after eleven years.

Sound familiar?

That's when he decided it was time to test if people would actually pay him for these skills. He got some clients on the side, launched a 5K race company, and eventually opened his own digital marketing agency, proving that you can take your skills and build your own agency if you're willing to start.

The Attribution Struggle He Faced as an Agency Client

From his experience hiring agencies on the corporate side, one of the biggest frustrations RJ encountered was the attribution nightmare. It wasn't always easy to see where the lead came from and where they were at in the pipeline. This was some ten years ago, so every agency was siloed: SEO, PPC, outdoor, TV—and each claimed leads but no one could prove it.

And even today, with GA4, HighLevel, UTMs, and tag managers, the truth is:

"Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't."

We're bombarded with data, but turning it into actionable insight is another story. RJ prefers to establish a baseline, track what matters, and avoid drowning in vanity metrics - like open rates—that don't impact the client's bottom line.

Why Speed to Lead Still Wins

Both RJ and Jason agree that speed to lead wins deals.

If you're not calling leads while they're still on your website you are likely losing opportunities. Just like you probably click on the first result in a Google search, whoever calls back first is going to win.

If your sales team is still waiting hours (or days) to follow up, you're leaving money on the table.

Rethinking Nurture Sequences Without Being "That Guy"

Even if you're not converting them right away, how are you nurturing those leads in a way that doesn't feel like overkill? First of all, replace boring white papers with short, actionable videos that deliver instant value.

For example, Jason's Budget Buster video helps prospects get budgets 99% of the time, creating immediate ROI and building trust. Follow that with another bite-sized value piece a few days later. Once leads warm up, move them to your newsletter list.

Have some lead magnets ready, like useful videos you can send each week to warm up that client. After that, you can move that client from the "warm-up" list to a newsletter list, so you can send them valuable content on a daily basis.

Sending daily value-packed emails to engaged subscribers actually increased their domain authority and engagement.

It's about quality frequency, not spam. Think about what you'd want to receive yourself, not just what you want to send.

The Meta & Google Frustration We're All Tired Of

Not even Meta is getting emails right, as they send multiple emails a day that don't really add much value for clients. On top of that, their reps hardly ever provide the right solutions and are mainly focused on "spend more" strategies.

It's a universal frustration for agency owners, who see Meta is calling clients directly trying to cut their agency out.

It's one more reason why agencies need to protect their positioning, control client conversations, and not let the platforms dictate strategy.

From One Client to Twenty: The Real Agency Rollercoaster

What's the hardest shift going from corporate to owning your agency? For RJ, it was going from one clear client you're focusing on at one moment to having even 20 clients, plus "trying to get clients to pay you, to keep paying you, while finding new ones, and keeping them happy."

Running an agency turned out to be way harder than he expected. Corporate can be robotic and boring, but on the bright side, you have one client: your boss. Lose that, and you're done.

In the agency world, a client can fire you, but you've got 5, 10, or 20 others paying the bills. The flip side? You're always on. Even when you're "off," your mind is stuck on proposals, scope creep, and that client's weird Slack message at 10 pm. That's one of the biggest challenges for RJ at the moment.

Setting Your Priorities Straight with The Right Systems

When it comes to taking care of yourself, your priorities should always be: Health, Family, Agency—In That Order.

However, too often agency owners get their priorities backwards. You have a zillion things you can and should be doing and choosing the priority is the challenge.

That balancing act gets easier once you build the right leadership team and put systems in place that pull you out of the weeds.

But agency owners often struggle to shut their brains off, leading to constant stress, scattered priorities, and burnout cycles that can wreck family time, health, and even your love for the business.

If you're stuck in the chaos, it's time to step back and prioritize what actually moves the needle in your agency.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Still unsure what to charge for your agency services? Scared to raise your rates in case clients leave?

If you're like many agency owners who are busy as hell but barely turning a profit, it's time to face a hard truth: your profit model might be broken. Fixing it isn't about selling more… it's about keeping more.

In this episode, we break down the pricing strategy you need to attract high-quality clients, boost profits, and finally charge what you're worth.

Stop Selling Time

The first mindset shift you need: Your value isn't in the hours you clock, it's in the outcomes you deliver and the confidence you bring.

If you're still selling time or generic services, AI is your biggest competitor right now. But if you position your agency as a niche expert, you become irreplaceable. Clients pay for leadership, not tasks.

3 Core Agency Pricing Models (and Where They Break)

1. Hourly Pricing

Punishes efficiency: work faster, get paid less. It also attracts micromanaging clients who treat your team like task rabbits.

2. Project-Based Pricing

Scope, deliver, get paid. Works for one-off builds like websites, but it traps you in feast-or-famine if you aren't stacking and upselling strategically.

3. Value-Based Pricing

This is where serious growth happens. Instead of selling a website, you sell a result like converting traffic into sales. You price outcomes, not hours.

Common Pricing Mistakes

We see it all the time:

• Underpricing to "close the deal."

• Using one-size-fits-all pricing.

• Failing to adapt pricing to market demand.

• Giving away strategy for free.

Make Your Pricing Work for Your Growth

• Find your ideal client. Not everyone deserves a proposal. Shape your messaging to attract clients who want to pay for results.

• Know your margins. You can't price confidently if you don't know your true delivery costs.

• Price for profit, not survival. If you're scraping by every month, you're running a hobby, not a business.

• Position as a partner, not a vendor. Premium clients want an advisor, not a task-doer.

Where to Start

1. Define your freedom goal. Price to support the life you want, not just your expenses.

2. Say your price with confidence. Nervous energy kills deals. Say it, then stop talking and let it land.

3. Anchor to outcomes. Tie your price to the results you create, not the tasks you deliver.

4. Treat pricing like a stock. Demand goes up, so do your rates.

5. Use milestone-based increases. Got ten new clients? Raise your rates for the next ten. Once there's a gap between your old and new rates, circle back and raise your legacy clients.

Pricing isn't just a number, it's your positioning and the path to building an agency that buys back your freedom.

Go back, tighten your offers, raise your rates if they're due, and say that number with confidence. Because once you believe you're worth it, your clients will too.

Want Help Making This Shift?

Sick of giving away strategy for free? The Foot in the Door (FITD) System shows you how to get paid $2,500+ just to meet. No more free calls, no more tire-kickers. Grab it by clicking HERE.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

A surprise $10K tax bill nearly knocked Pete Kleinjan off course—but he learned that trusting experts, keeping perspective, and staying outcome-focused is what turns agency chaos into long-term growth. If you're facing curveballs, this episode is your mindset reset.

What You'll Learn

• Why SEO isn't what you sell, it's what it gets your clients.
• The tax mistake that cost $10K (and what Pete did right).
• How to lead through chaos with perspective, not panic.
• Why timeless principles beat trendy tactics every time.
• How realness (not AI avatars) builds lasting trust.

Key Takeaways

1. Clients buy outcomes, not SEO jargon: Sell the lakehouse dream, not the traffic report.
2. Tax mistakes can kill momentum. Hire experts early: A $10K bill could've derailed everything, but Pete owned it and leveled up his support team.
3. Stay resilient when the storm hits: Business will test you. What keeps you going is clarity, not hustle.
4. Tools change, principles don't: Focus on client results, clear communication, and solving problems—not shiny new platforms.
5. Authenticity wins: Forget perfect video. Scrappy, honest content builds trust that converts.
6. Sell what they need, not what you want to deliver: Pete got a client for life by solving a $0 "do not index" issue. That's value.

What's the most unexpected challenge you've faced as an agency owner? How did you handle it when things went sideways?

Agency life is full of curveballs, and the only way to keep your business alive is by maintaining perspective and resilience when the unexpected hits.

Today's featured guest once thought he would lose all the progress he'd made with his agency when the state hit him with a surprise $10K sales tax bill he didn't even know existed. But now, he looks back and laughs, recognizing that getting through it came down to trusting the right professionals and staying the course.

He firmly believes that keeping your business afloat for the long haul means remembering why clients hire you in the first place — and that focusing on the outcomes that matter is what builds trust and closes deals.

Pete Kleinjan is the founder and owner of Tiger29, an SEO agency that helps local small businesses achieve their sales goals. His agency isn't a sprawling team of 50; it's a small, sharp crew focused on what small business clients actually care about: more phone calls, more leads, more sales.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• The real reason clients want SEO.

• A lesson on team + preparedness.

• Perspective & resilience when things go sideways.

• Why you should focus on what won't change.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

The Real Reason Clients Want SEO (And Why We Overcomplicate It)

Pete's first job right out of college was doing credit card collection. It was awful but it trained him in being on the phone multiple hours a day having difficult conversations, which led to his next job selling wheelchair-accessible vans.

As a salesperson, he quickly realized the key to more sales wasn't grinding harder—it was getting more qualified leads. After he communicated his drive to help bring in more leads, the company's developer threw him a Wikipedia link to SEO, and Pete dove in, learned FTP, and started tweaking pages himself. That hands-on hunger turned into a full-fledged agency by 2009.

It's a story he still tells prospects because he knows clients don't want SEO; they want what SEO brings. They want sales, the Cadillac, the lakehouse dream—not rankings or traffic screenshots, and leading with that terminology could just push them away.

Pete urges agency owners to remember this because it speaks to what small business owners care about: "How do I get more of the customers I want?" When you lead with jargon, you lose your prospect. Lead with the transformation.

The Unexpected $10K Sales Tax Bill (And a Lesson on Team + Preparedness)

A couple of years into his agency, Pete received a letter from the state labeled "sales tax review" (not audit, but let's be real—it was an audit). Turns out, in South Dakota, consulting services are taxable, and the state decided local SEO link-building and citation placement fell under "taxable consulting." This little "surprise" ended with Pete writing a $10,000 check to the state.

For a moment, Pete considered fighting it and asked his attorney brother for advice. However, his brother put it in perspective for him: pay the $10K or pay a lawyer to sue and likely have the state fight you all the way to the Supreme Court. It wasn't fun, but it was the best decision for his peace of mind.

For him, the big takeaway was: Hire a good bookkeeper and CPA who know your local tax nuances. You don't want to be the expert in tax law, just like your clients shouldn't have to be experts in SEO. Pete chose not to pass that bill back to his clients because it was his mistake, and it would be unfair. But it also taught him to be proactive in areas outside his zone of genius by building a team of experts who handle the boring (but crucial) details.

Perspective and Resilience When Things Go Sideways

Pete's tax story caused sleepless nights at the time, but looking back, he laughs about it. Because here's the hard truth about agency ownership: Money challenges, curveballs, and "surprise" bills are going to happen. Your ability to weather these storms without spiraling is what separates owners who build sustainable agencies from those who burn out.

When you've been in the game long enough, you realize it's never all rainbows, and there's always something around the corner that could trip you up. But when you remember why you're in business—to build a life you love, not just a bigger agency—it becomes easier to shake off setbacks and focus on what matters: your health, your team, your freedom, and your ability to keep moving forward.

Focus on What Won't Change

In a recent interview, Jeff Bezos was asked about how he thought things would change in five years. His answer was that instead of obsessing over what will change, he prefers focusing on what won't change.

No matter what, clients will always want results. They'll always want things on time. They'll always want problems solved by real humans who care. Whether you're using AI, TikTok or any other platform, those core truths will remain.

We can often get distracted by tools and trends (AI, new social platforms, "the next algorithm hack"). But the tools in your box will change; your job—to deliver transformation to clients—will not. Build your business around timeless principles like clear communication, trust, and delivering results, and you'll outlast any trend.

AI, Avatars, and Authenticity

With the coming wave of AI avatars, deepfakes, and synthetic influencers, how should agency owners use these tools while maintaining authenticity?

Yes, you could deploy an AI influencer for your agency, especially if you're camera-shy. But as Pete shared, their social media commandment #1 is "it has to be real." Their scrappy videos may not be as polished as some big agencies, but they convert because they're authentic, quirky, and genuinely helpful.

In a future where clients may question if what they see online is real, your authenticity will become your moat. Using AI should amplify your agency's personality, not replace it, so let your realness be your competitive advantage.

Selling What Clients Need, Not What You Want to Sell

A small business owner struggling for two years with a site that wouldn't show up on Google. Why? A simple "do not index" box was checked in WordPress. Everyone else was trying to pitch her a free "strategy call" (AKA sales call), but Pete charged for an SEO Power Hour, solved her problem immediately, and won her trust.

The takeaway for Pete was that it's good he didn't default to "selling a new website" when a client came for SEO. Don't push a service because it's your highest margin offer. Sell what they actually need. When you do, you become their trusted advisor, not another expense they're trying to cut.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Running an agency can feel like chaos on repeat—clients, team stress, and no clear direction. You're not alone. Today's featured guest has built and sold a $3M+ agency, kept employee turnover under 5%, and is now launching a focused, values-driven agency built to thrive in today's market. He shares some hard-won lessons on building a culture your team will never want to leave, attracting clients who respect your expertise, and creating the clarity and focus you need to scale without burning out. If you're an agency owner who's tired of the chaos and wants a clearer, saner path forward, this conversation will give you a roadmap worth following.

Colin Hetherington is the founder of the newly minted Common Good in Dublin, but he's no rookie. Before that, he co-founded Zoo Digital, growing it past $3M a year before it was acquired, and even earlier, he pitched and built agency.com's Dublin presence when Ireland barely had broadband.

After building and scaling agency.com Ireland, Colin and two colleagues grabbed coffee after a client meeting and decided, "There's a better way to do this." It wasn't a grand plan with a 50-slide deck. It was a hunch—and a leap of faith.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Why he believes in taking the leap before you're ready.

• Build systems or burn out.

• How to keep turnover at less than 5%.

• Why focus is the ultimate power move.

Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Look for the Venn Diagram Sweet Spot

Colin's first experience in digital marketing came when he worked for an agency in San Francisco back in 1999. At iTraffic, subsequently taken over by Agency.com, he learned about what was called at the time 'internet advertising', and five years later he pitched the idea of setting up Agency.com in Dublin.

Their developing edge was putting strategy, creative, and technology under one roof at a time when agencies treated digital as an afterthought. That unique combination allowed them to win big clients like the National Lottery and the Irish Tourism Board with a tiny seven-person team.

In just two years, they went from zero to driving 12% of the group's revenue and Colin and his partners felt ready to grow their own business.

Hitting Their Stride with Innovation

Zoo launched in 2008, right before the Great Recession and right as businesses started pulling back and budgets evaporated. However, they were able to adapt by winning some solid clients and partnering quietly behind the scenes with agencies that couldn't handle digital in-house. They found scrappy ways to deliver big ideas on smaller budgets, often using student illustrators or leaner production.

By 2015, they'd grown the team to fourteen people and were hitting their stride with their original formula of combining strategy, creative, and technology under one roof that led them to work with big names like Redbull.

After bringing innovation to countless brand events, Colin's agency started focusing on UX and got an important partnership with one of the largest banks in Ireland. While not every flashy innovation won new business immediately, it got them on pitch lists and made their team proud.

Hiring Before You're Ready

Colin's hiring strategy has always been taking leaps of faith. Instead of hiring one by one, they'd hire in threes or fours—betting on themselves to fill the pipeline. This was even back when they couldn't forecast beyond five months.

For Colin, there was no use in debating and agonizing over these leaps for weeks when the team was already stretched for 1–2 months straight. Playing too small can be riskier than making bold, smart bets and, as they learned over time, taking those leaps of faith paid off every time. Every time they made that leap, the new team members were busy almost immediately.

Build Systems or Burn Out

On the other hand, Colin was not as quick to scale processes as they grew the team, which resulted in many projects being delayed and clients rightly unhappy about the situation.

At one point, Colin was heading to a client meeting with that sick-to-your-stomach feeling that they were about to get fired for missing deadlines. They didn't get fired, but the client laid it out: "We love you, but can you ever deliver on time?"

That wake-up call pushed Colin to bring in operations help, implement systems, and build scalable processes so they could grow without chaos. This next step also required them to admit they just weren't great project managers and needed outside help to build the foundations to grow the business.

Culture Is What You Live, Not What You Write

Colin managed to keep his agency's employee turnover at less than 5% by putting a heavy focus on culture while he was at Zoo. It's easy to slap a "values" page on your agency's website. He understood that reducing churn meant reducing time spent on getting people up to speed, for instance, but he also understood that culture isn't what you write down—it's what you live.

For Colin, it all came down to leadership and how the leadership team delivers culture. For starters, they treated people like adults, trusting their team to own their work without micromanagement, and recognizing that work is just one part of life.

When hard times hit, like during COVID, Colin and his partners were transparent. They had to temporarily reduce salaries but promised to pay it back when the storm cleared—and they did. That act of integrity built trust in a way no ping-pong table or Slack emoji ever could.

Your Values Attract the Right Clients (and Repel the Wrong Ones)

If you've ever worked with a nightmare client—the kind who demands everything yesterday, disrespects your team, and thinks paying your invoice is a license to treat you like dirt—yyou know the toll it takes on your team and energy. On this, Jason and Colin agree: it's better to walk away.

Colin has learned that sharing the unspoken values you hold as a team don't just keep your culture healthy; they also shape the clients you attract. The best, longest-lasting client relationships he had were with organizations that shared similar values around respect, partnership, and clear communication. As to the nightmare clients? Those relationships were doomed from day one because the values were out of sync.

Focus Is the Ultimate Power Move

After selling Zoo, Colin is launching his new agency, Common Good, with one big lesson in mind: Focus beats everything.

Instead of being a generalist, Colin is zeroing in on serving state and civil service organizations in Ireland. He believes these organizations are doing important work that deserves to be communicated well—and that clear positioning will set them apart in a market where every agency says the same thing about their "process, portfolio, and people."

What's more, Colin isn't trying to build another 60-person agency. He's embracing the shift in the market toward lean, senior teams that can deliver high-quality work without unnecessary bloat.

If you're still in the grind of your first agency, it's normal not to have perfect clarity yet. You have to try things, learn what drains your energy, and double down on what gives you energy. The sooner you build reflection time into your schedule, the sooner you'll find your agency's true direction.

It may be hard to take the time to really think about these things. The day-to-day of running an agency can drown you in Slack messages, client calls, and fires to put out. But stepping back—even for a few hours each week—to reflect on where you're going and why can be the difference between a business that drifts and one that thrives.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Buying another agency sounds like a shortcut to scale — but if you skip the wrong step or miss the wrong promise, you might inherit more problems than profit. But how do you actually approach due diligence to ensure a seamless, profitable acquisition?

Today's featured guest learned these lessons the hard way. What started as a promising deal quickly revealed cracks, forcing him and his partner to navigate unexpected challenges to pull the agency through. In the process, he discovered the key questions you must ask before buying another agency and the hidden details that can make or break your investment.

If you're an agency owner thinking about using acquisitions as a growth strategy, today's conversation will equip you with real-world insights to avoid costly mistakes and set your agency up for a smoother, successful expansion.

Matt Marchetta is an agency owner with two decades of experience who recounts his journey in the industry, from starting his first web design business in high school to pivoting into e-commerce and ultimately becoming a digital nomad.

He teamed up with a partner to acquire Growth Labs, a lead generation shop focused on outbound. He goes over some of the challenges and crucial lessons learned during the acquisition process, particularly concerning due diligence, unforeseen client guarantees, and the original owner's significant personal brand influence on the agency's client base.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Why buy another agency in the first place?

• Due diligence traps that cost real money.

• The ROI guarantee that almost blew up the deal.

• 4 questions you must ask before your next acquisition

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

From Solo Hustle to Ecom Growth Machine

Matt started his agency journey as a kid who just wanted to work for himself and quickly learned the hard way—like many do—that running a business isn't just about being good at the work, it's about learning the business of business. It's a time he remembers fondly as a great foundation for his business education.

He pivoted early from generalist design and dev work into e-commerce, riding that wave as it grew. Over time, he layered in Facebook ads, video production, and photography to support product marketing for his clients. And while many were stuck in offices, Matt was ahead of the curve, running remote from day one, carving out a lifestyle business that let him travel, stay flexible, and keep agency life fun.

In fact, he never thought seriously about the possibility of selling his agency, since it's something he really enjoys doing and didn't think he'd ever get an offer that would compare to what he thinks it's worth.

Why Buy an Agency?

So why would a guy who loves the freedom of his own agency buy another one?

Simple: leverage and evolution.

Matt and his current business partner decided it was time to level up their respective agencies. They were both tired of being generalists and saw an opportunity to specialize, automate, and potentially transition out of day-to-day client grind by acquiring a business with the right foundation.

They didn't go hunting for a big fish they couldn't afford. Instead, they targeted a sub-seven-figure agency they could buy at a fair multiple, with the goal of systemizing and growing it. Enter Growth Labs, an outbound lead gen agency specializing in cold email marketing.

What They Looked For Before the Purchase

Matt and his partner moved fast but smart:

• Profit and Loss: They dug into five years of P&Ls, noticing the typical COVID spike, post-spike drop, and finally profitability as the owner prepared to sell.

• Adbacks Reality Check: The books had plenty of "personal expenses" that, once removed, showed a clearer, stronger profit picture.

• Pipeline and Clients: They signed an NDA to peek at client lists, learning that the agency's lead gen often came from the owner's personal brand and reputation—great for credibility, but also something they'd need to replace with systems.

• Recurring vs. One-Off: They checked churn, recurring revenue, and how the business handled its leads and delivery so they wouldn't be buying a leaky bucket.

Fast Close, Strategic Future

In true operator fashion, Matt and his partner put in an offer quickly (about three weeks after initial discussions) and agreed on a 1.3x EBITDA multiple. They wanted the former owner to stick around for a transition period, ensuring continuity while they layered in their own systems and strategic direction.

Everything looked clean. The seller had a strong personal brand. The books checked out (after adbacks). The plan was clear: earnout over three years, phased transition, and keep the seller involved for 12 months to ensure smooth client handoff and he agreed to do it.

Then the cracks appeared.

The ROI Guarantee Bomb

While poking around Slack before the official handover, Matt found discussions about an ROI guarantee with a disgruntled client. The seller brushed it off as a "Horoszi-level mistake from years back."

No big deal, right?

Wrong.

Turns out, most new client contracts still included these ROI guarantees—often unwritten, often unenforceable, and often unrealistic. Combine that with underperforming cold email campaigns, and you have a recipe for churn, complaints, and a legal minefield.

What was supposed to be a 2-month campaign turned into 12-month obligations with clients expecting a magical ROI that the agency couldn't verify, let alone control.

4 Lessons Matt Learned (So You Don't Have to)

In hindsight, Matt admits they moved too fast. A few weeks wasn't enough because due diligence should take longer than you think. His advice for agency owners is not to feel pressured—take the time to ask uncomfortable questions and look for patterns and keep these 4 aspects in mind:

1. Don't just check contracts. Check promises. Matt discovered clients were sticking around for the wrong reasons—and the wrong terms—due to handshake promises that should've been flagged during due diligence.

2. Thoroughly analyze client data and churn patterns. Analyze the available metrics to determine whether or not clients are actually reaching goals. In his case, Matt found that using AI would've helped him uncover that consistent MRR masked a perfect churn pattern: lose three clients, gain three clients, every month. AI could've shown these patterns in minutes.

3. Expect that when the seller leaves, 80-90% of their lead gen leaves with them. If the agency's pipeline depends on the owner's personal brand, you need a plan to replace that before you wire funds.

4. Dig deeper into why the seller is selling—and why they started. Was the agency a real business solving a real need, or just a personal brand ATM for the founder? That origin story tells you how the business was run and what baggage you're buying.

The Silver Lining

Was it all doom and gloom? Nope.

Matt discovered that despite the outdated "spray and pray" cold email approach, the agency's foundations were solid: a capable team, strong email infrastructure, and processes that could be upgraded with AI personalization and scalable systems.

Instead of throwing in the towel, Matt is now rebuilding Growth Labs into a smarter, tech-enabled lead-gen agency aligned with the future, not the past.

And despite the headaches, Matt and his business partner are still hungry for more acquisitions, now with clear systems and smarter questions in hand. They're even considering rolling up a group of specialist agencies as their next move.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

We've been talking about AI on this podcast for years — not just as the next shiny tool, but as the biggest shift agencies will face this decade. Yet most agencies still haven't done more than dabble. Meanwhile, their competitors (or even their clients) are using AI to move faster, make sharper decisions, and drive results that leave everyone else scrambling to catch up. If you're still on the sidelines, you're already behind.

Today's guest is clear about the game-changing role of AI in the agency world. He argues it's not just about making your shop more efficient — it's about driving better client results, delivering faster, deeper insights, and adding to your bottom line.

Agencies that fail to embrace AI risk being outpaced by clients who bring it in-house or by competitors already using it to gain an edge. To stay competitive, you have to take a forward-thinking approach that uses AI to scale operations, increase client value, and keep your best people.

Phil Parrish is the co-founder & President of PrograMetrix, a boutique programmatic advertising agency that also crushes it in paid search and paid social. Celebrating their 10-year anniversary this past April, Phil's team has stayed nimble, focused, and mighty — helping clients dominate their digital paid media while driving real, measurable results. He'll discuss his vision on AI, how he's using it as a multiplier, and why that are not already adapting their processes to include this technology, will be exposed.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Navigating pipeline churn anxiety.

• Delivering quick wins with AI.

• Why agencies that don't adapt will get exposed.

• Focus on the wins, not just the tasks.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Betting on Yourself (And Getting Clients to Bet on You Too)

Phil didn't stumble into agency ownership by accident, but he didn't overcomplicate it either. He built strong client relationships over the years, recognized the moment when he thought, "I can do what this company does — why not do it for myself?" and took the leap. With clients ready to follow, he launched PrograMetrix and started generating revenue quickly, sidestepping much of the risk that keeps many would-be agency owners stuck.

The takeaway? If you've built trust and consistently delivered, clients will follow when you launch your own shop. Relationships and results are your best startup capital.

Navigating Uncertainty Without Panic

Every agency owner hits moments of chaos—those "Are we going under?" nightmares that keep you up at 3 AM. So far, Phil's journey hasn't quite hit the "we can't make payroll" panic, but pipeline uncertainty and client churn anxiety were very real, especially during COVID-19.

Ironically, the pandemic ended up being a huge growth driver. As trade shows and in-person events vanished, clients who were spending six figures on live events had to redeploy budgets digitally. PrograMetrix was perfectly positioned to catch that wave. "You've got to have a good business plan, offer strategic value, make smart bets, and stay laser-focused when your back's against the wall."

It's a solid reminder: when chaos hits, the cream rises. The agencies that pivot fast come out stronger.

AI: Beyond Social Posts and Rocket Emojis

Let's get real: most agencies are looking at AI like it's a shortcut to crank out social posts and blog content (and yes, that's part of it). But Phil's approach is a level above—he's integrating AI deeply into PrograMetrix's operations to enhance speed, insights, and performance, not just save a few hours per week.

In his view, agencies that have depended on time as their inventory and work on the basis that the more time they can utilize the more revenue they can drive will struggle unless they modernize operations using AI.

For its part, Phil's agency is building a proprietary product using a licensed data warehouse, pulling data from all their platforms (The Trade Desk, Meta, Google, TikTok, LinkedIn, etc.), and using AI to run advanced queries and develop unique optimization techniques. The end goal would be to deliver faster, clearer, and more impactful insights that clients can't get by simply logging into their ad accounts.

The bottom line: If your agency isn't embedding AI into how you operate and deliver, not just as a tool to "save time," clients will either bring it in-house or go with an agency that does. The market is moving, and speed and value are non-negotiables if you want to win and retain serious clients.

Delivering Quick Wins and Story-Driven Insights

Mid-market and enterprise clients dropping six to seven figures on ad spend need to feel your authority and your velocity from day one. They need to breathe easier knowing your agency has it handled, and they need to see progress fast, or they'll be out.

Using AI, Phil's agency uncovers insights like:

• Path to conversion (impressions and touchpoints before a sale)

• Channel impact across the funnel

• Audience segment insights

• Messaging that drives real ROI

They're not just sending reports but turning complex data into actionable stories for their clients. If you're still measuring your agency's success by how much time you can bill rather than how much impact you can deliver, it's time to rethink your model before your clients rethink you.

Why Agencies That Don't Adapt Will Get Exposed

Look, AI isn't going to wipe out agencies. But it will wipe out agencies that are stuck operating like it's 2015, coasting on outdated processes, and sending the same recycled reports clients can pull themselves.

AI is like the giant scoreboard in baseball, showing every advanced stat in real-time. Agencies that are half-assing delivery can't hide anymore. If you're running bad ads, AI will show your client you suck, and you'll get fired. (Like the agency I just fired.)

AI won't kill the agency model, but it will expose agencies not using best-of-breed tools to deliver value faster.

AI as a Multiplier, Not a Threat — and Saves Him $200K

Phil is using AI as a force multiplier to:

• Deliver faster, clearer insights for clients

• Optimize campaigns for even a 2-3% lift that compounds over time

And they're doing this without having to invest in new talent at the rate they otherwise would have. As Phil says, "if we can skip hiring one or two traders, that's a $200K swing to the bottom line." And it's not because he doesn't value his team—he's investing in making his team better. AI helps smart people do better work, get better results, and actually enjoy their jobs.

Clients see more value, your agency scales efficiently, and your team sticks around longer, reducing churn and recruitment costs.

It's About Buying Wins, Not Just Doing Tasks

If you've seen Moneyball, know Billy Beane reinvented baseball by focusing on "getting on base," not vanity stats. Agencies should think the same way:

• What are your "get on base" moves that drive client results?

• Are you outcome-driven and problem-solving, or are you a task rabbit waiting to be replaced by AI?

When clients have big challenges, do they come to you first, or are you stuck doing low-value production work? If it's the latter, it's a sign to reposition your agency now. If you don't, you're writing your own exit letter from the industry.

Make AI Use Mandatory, Not Optional

As an agency leader, it's time to go all-in on integrating AI across all SOPs, not just as an add-on for the leadership team. Why? Because this tech:

• Makes employees more valuable in the marketplace

• Makes them happier by removing annoying, low-leverage tasks

• Keeps your team aligned with your agency's growth goals

Before they started using AI prompts to understand how to optimize a campaign or improve performance, their campaign managers were conducting huge Excel exports. Now they can focus on strategy. If you're the only one using AI in your agency, you're toast. You need to lead, train, and require your team to use these tools to become outcome-focused problem solvers rather than task executors.

Stop Being Fearful. Start Doing

If you're feeling fear around AI, that's normal. But you'll stay scared if you don't start using it. Phil's team didn't wait for a perfect moment; they're actively building, testing, and refining AI use across their delivery and ops. The agencies that will win over the next 3-5 years aren't the ones worrying about AI—they're the ones using it to solve bigger problems faster for their clients.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.