The ABMP Podcast | Speaking With the Massage & Bodywork Profession

A simple question turned into a deep dive, and I learned a ton along the way! A client has an implanted vagus nerve stimulator. Now what?

In this episode of I Have a Client Who . . ., Ruth explore's how vagus nerve stimulators work, why they're used, and the precautions massage therapists should consider. Plus, we discuss the exciting possibilities these devices hold for a wide range of treatments.

Resources:

Ben-Menachem, E. (2001) "Vagus nerve stimulation, side effects, and long-term safety," Journal of Clinical Neurophysiology: Official Publication of the American Electroencephalographic Society, 18(5), pp. 415–418. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1097/00004691-200109000-00005.

Lerman, I. et al. (2019) "Noninvasive vagus nerve stimulation alters neural response and physiological autonomic tone to noxious thermal challenge," PLoS ONE, 14(2), p. e0201212. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0201212.

Mandalaneni, K. and Rayi, A. (2025) "Vagus Nerve Stimulator," in StatPearls. Treasure Island (FL): StatPearls Publishing. Available at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK562175/ (Accessed: October 22, 2025).

Olsen, L.K. et al. (2023) "Vagus nerve stimulation: mechanisms and factors involved in memory enhancement," Frontiers in Human Neuroscience, 17. Available at: https://doi.org/10.3389/fnhum.2023.1152064.

Tariq, K. et al. (2020) "A case report of Vagus nerve stimulation for intractable hiccups," International Journal of Surgery Case Reports, 78, pp. 219–222. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijscr.2020.12.023.

UCL (2025) Vagus nerve stimulation could help people get more exercise, UCL News. Available at: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2025/jul/vagus-nerve-stimulation-could-help-people-get-more-exercise (Accessed: October 22, 2025).

Vagus Nerve (no date) Physiopedia. Available at: https://www.physio-pedia.com/Vagus_Nerve (Accessed: October 22, 2025).

Vagus Nerve Stimulation (VNS): What It Is, Uses & Side Effects (no date) Cleveland Clinic. Available at: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/17598-vagus-nerve-stimulation (Accessed: October 18, 2025).

Wu, Q. et al. (2024) "Current status of transcutaneous auricular vagus nerve stimulation for tinnitus: a narrative review of modern research," Frontiers in Neuroscience, 18, p. 1405310. Available at: https://doi.org/10.3389/fnins.2024.1405310.

Host Bio:

Ruth Werner is a former massage therapist, a writer, and an NCBTMB-approved continuing education provider. She wrote A Massage Therapist's Guide to Pathology, now in its seventh edition, which is used in massage schools worldwide. Werner is also a long-time Massage & Bodywork columnist, most notably of the Pathology Perspectives column. Werner is also ABMP's partner on Pocket Pathology, a web-based app and quick reference program that puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips. Werner's books are available at www.booksofdiscovery.com. And more information about her is available at www.ruthwerner.com.

About our Sponsors:

Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function.

Website: anatomytrains.com

Email: [email protected]

Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains

Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA

This month mark's my 25th anniversary of being a massage therapist. In my 25 years, I have developed some opinions about definitions. In this episode of The Rebel MT, I am breaking down the cost of deep tissue therapy, calling out who is paying the price, and analyzing how we need to rethink things. Not just for our clients, but for the sake of a long and awesome career.

Host Bio:

Contact Allison Denney: [email protected]

Allison's website: www.rebelmassage.com

Allison Denney is a certified massage therapist and certified YouTuber. You can find her massage tutorials at YouTube.com/RebelMassage. She is also passionate about creating products that are kind, simple, and productive for therapists to use in their practices. Her products, along with access to her blog and CE opportunities, can be found at rebelmassage.com.

About our Sponsors:

Rebel Massage Therapist: http://www.rebelmassage.com

Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com

Rebel Massage Therapist:

My name is Allison. And I am not your typical massage therapist. After 20 years of experience and thousands of clients, I have learned that massage therapy is SO MUCH more than a relaxing experience at a spa. I see soft tissue as more than merely a physical element but a deeply complex, neurologically driven part of who you are. I use this knowledge to work WITH you—not ON you—to create change that works. This is the basis of my approach. As a massage therapist, I have worked in almost every capacity, including massage clinics, physical therapy clinics, chiropractor offices, spas, private practice, and teaching. I have learned incredible techniques and strategies from each of my experiences. In my 20 years as a massage therapist, I have never stopped growing. I currently have a private practice based out of Long Beach, California, where I also teach continuing education classes and occasionally work on my kids. If they're good.

website: www.rebelmassage.com

FB: facebook.com/RebelMassage

IG: instagram.com/rebelmassagetherapist

YouTube: youtube.com/c/RebelMassage

email: [email protected]

Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function.

Website: anatomytrains.com

Email: [email protected]

Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains

Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA

It's easy to skip some of the less-than-daily tasks that need to be handled in a small business. In this episode of Business or Pressure, Allissa Haines walks you through some common tasks and universal lists.

Host:

Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner. You can find her building websites and coaching massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com.

Links:

Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com

Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/purepromassageproducts

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/purepromassageproducts/

YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCncpFzRVwZA_V_SnylkHyMw

In this episode of The ABMP Podcast, Darren and Kristin are joined by Doug Nelson to discuss how collaboration between MTs and PTs can accelerate client outcomes and strengthen the continuum of care. Doug shares how to navigate professional boundaries, build effective communication systems, and offers practical advice for massage therapists looking to establish stronger referral relationships as well as the importance of a shared language between disciplines.

Resources:

Douglas Nelson is Board Certified in Massage Therapy and Therapeutic Bodywork, beginning his career in massage therapy in 1977. Seeing over 1,200 client visits annually for decades, he is also the owner of BodyWork Associates, a massage therapy clinic in Champaign, IL. with 21 therapists that was established in 1982.

He is the founder of NMT MidWest, Inc., providing training in Precision Neuromuscular Therapy™ across the USA. He has personally taught more than 13,000 hours of continuing education and is the author of three books. Doug is a past president of the Massage Therapy Foundation.

Hosts:

Darren Buford is senior director of communications and editor-in-chief for ABMP. He is editor of Massage & Bodywork magazine and has worked for ABMP for 22 years, and been involved in journalism at the association, trade, and consumer levels for 24 years. He has served as board member and president of the Western Publishing Association, as well as board member for Association Media & Publishing. Contact him at [email protected].

Kristin Coverly, LMT is a massage therapist, educator, and the director of professional education at ABMP. She loves creating continuing education courses, events, and resources to support massage therapists and bodyworkers as they enhance their lives and practices. Contact her at [email protected].

Sponsors:

Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com

Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function.

Website: anatomytrains.com

Email: [email protected]

Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains

Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA

Collagen is everywhere in the body. The 30 trillion cells that make up the human body are held together in a matrix of collagen fibers that provides structural support and gives the body its recognizable form.

In this episode, Rachelle and Nicole explore all things collagen—asking if we are really "losing" it as we age, explaining its role as the body's "glue," and discussing why understanding this matrix is essential for massage therapists. You'll learn about the different types of collagen, how the matrix adapts to movement and injury, and how massage techniques communicate with the fibroblasts that build and remodel this dynamic matrix.

Resources:

LAB COURSE: Journey into the MATRIX

www.anatomyscapes.com/MATRIX for more information about "Journey Into the MATRIX: the Fascial System" dissection lab workshop.

LAB COURSE: Dissection Lab Intensive

​​https://www.anatomyscapes.com/DLI for more information about the "Dissection Lab Intensive" lab workshop.

Check out the Anatomy for Touch column in the Massage & Bodywork magazine at https://www.abmp.com/massage-and-bodywork-magazine/anatomy

Find out more about AnatomySCAPES!

Connect with us!

website: www.anatomyscapes.com

FB: facebook.com/AnatomySCAPES

IG: instagram.com/anatomyscapes

YouTube: youtube.com/@anatomyscapes

email: [email protected]

Hosts:

AnatomySCAPES Co-Directors, Rachelle Clauson and Nicole Trombley, are NCBTMB-approved continuing education providers and teach anatomy explorations for hands-on professionals online and in person. They co-author the "Anatomy for Touch" column in Massage & Bodywork magazine and enjoy helping therapists better understand how anatomy relates to what they are feeling through their sense of touch.

Nicole Trombley: As a massage educator, Nicole draws on her passion for human biology to help therapists better understand the tissues under their hands. She owns and operates Equilibrio Massage in San Diego, CA, where she has specialized in massage for pregnancy and postpartum since 2004.

Rachelle Clauson: Rachelle loves teaching therapists about the structural organization and beauty of the human fascial system. She served as the Director of Creative and Administrative Affairs for the Fascial Net Plastination Project, and owns Flourish Bodywork, her private practice where she has offered hands-on bodywork in San Diego, CA, since 2003.

Allissa offers a reality check in using budget software and some tips to make a budget actually work for you.

Resources:

Annalisa Derryberry LMT: derryberrymassage.com

Host:

Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner. You can find her building websites and coaching massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com.

Author links:

Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com

A client was prescribed oral birth control to help manage symptoms of perimenopause. The medication caused a deep vein thrombosis (DVT), which then caused a pulmonary embolism (PE). Altogether this forms a potentially deadly phenomenon called venous thromboembolism (VTE).

She survived, and she's fine. But here's the thing: her PE was just two weeks ago, and she wants to receive deep massage to her neck, back, and shoulders. Yikes, right? Or maybe not? Listen in for some key decision points about this question.

Resources:

A Doctor's Note is Not Good Enough… and what is better: online self-paced continuing education course, available here.

Massage & Bodywork magazine, "Helping Clients with Complex Conditions", Jan/Feb 2023, available here.

Host Bio:

Ruth Werner is a former massage therapist, a writer, and an NCBTMB-approved continuing education provider. She wrote A Massage Therapist's Guide to Pathology, now in its seventh edition, which is used in massage schools worldwide. Werner is also a long-time Massage & Bodywork columnist, most notably of the Pathology Perspectives column. Werner is also ABMP's partner on Pocket Pathology, a web-based app and quick reference program that puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips. Werner's books are available at www.booksofdiscovery.com. And more information about her is available at www.ruthwerner.com.

About our Sponsors:

Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function.

Website: anatomytrains.com

Email: [email protected]

Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains

Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA

Handling adhesions is not an easy task as a massage therapist. But sometimes taking notes from Dr. Frankenstein and the relationship he had with his monster can offer up a lot of insights. In this episode, Allison explores what it would be like if we could shift our approach, use a little pixie dust, and learn how to love a monster.

Host Bio:

Contact Allison Denney: [email protected]

Allison's website: www.rebelmassage.com

Allison Denney is a certified massage therapist and certified YouTuber. You can find her massage tutorials at YouTube.com/RebelMassage. She is also passionate about creating products that are kind, simple, and productive for therapists to use in their practices. Her products, along with access to her blog and CE opportunities, can be found at rebelmassage.com.

About our Sponsors:

Rebel Massage Therapist: http://www.rebelmassage.com

Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com

Rebel Massage Therapist:

My name is Allison. And I am not your typical massage therapist. After 20 years of experience and thousands of clients, I have learned that massage therapy is SO MUCH more than a relaxing experience at a spa. I see soft tissue as more than merely a physical element but a deeply complex, neurologically driven part of who you are. I use this knowledge to work WITH you—not ON you—to create change that works. This is the basis of my approach. As a massage therapist, I have worked in almost every capacity, including massage clinics, physical therapy clinics, chiropractor offices, spas, private practice, and teaching. I have learned incredible techniques and strategies from each of my experiences. In my 20 years as a massage therapist, I have never stopped growing. I currently have a private practice based out of Long Beach, California, where I also teach continuing education classes and occasionally work on my kids. If they're good.

website: www.rebelmassage.com

FB: facebook.com/RebelMassage

IG: instagram.com/rebelmassagetherapist

YouTube: youtube.com/c/RebelMassage

email: [email protected]

Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function.

Website: anatomytrains.com

Email: [email protected]

Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains

Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA

What's a business entity and what's a tax election? Allissa walks through the simplest options for business structure as a small massage therapy business.

Resources:

Meg Donnelly, NoVA Weekend Warriors, Owner and Licensed Massage Therapist

https://www.novaweekendwarriors.com/contact/

Organizing around Massage Regulation: Local Advocacy Playbook for LMTs

Compiled by Casey White, LMT & Meg Donnelly LMT https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-qyKLy_eMwz-Vvb_FyfhH0F3Xjgs3YEv/view?usp=sharing

Host:

Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner. You can find her building websites and coaching massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com.

Author links:

Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com

Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/purepromassageproducts

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/purepromassageproducts/

YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCncpFzRVwZA_V_SnylkHyMw

In this episode of The ABMP Podcast, Angie welcomes Melanie Burns, CEO of Anatomy Trains and director in Europe and the UK. Melanie shares her inspiring journey to Ukraine, where she volunteered to train manual therapists working with soldiers recovering from war injuries, including amputations and head trauma.

With a unique background that bridges psychology, massage therapy, yoga, and international business, Melanie reflects on the cultural challenges, personal rewards, and professional growth that came from this powerful experience.

Melanie is the CEO of Anatomy Trains and director in Europe and the UK. She comes with an extensive background in international business, a bachelor's degree in psychology, and is a licensed massage therapist. She also owns and operates a 500-hour yoga teacher training in Maine and teaches Polyvagal Theory at Kripalu.

Host:

Angie Parris is a licensed massage therapist and is the advertising director for ABMP. She is Chopra Center Certified in meditation and ayurvedic lifestyle. Her training explores physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual health. Angie is also the founder of the nonprofit, Project Inti, an organization that provides aid to low-income Peruvian families and communities. For more information, visit www.projectinti.org.

Sponsors:

Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com

PMNT: www.pmnt.org

Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function.

Website: anatomytrains.com

Email: [email protected]

Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains

Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA

Precision Neuromuscular Therapy seminars (www.pnmt.org) have been teaching high-quality seminars for more than 20 years. Doug Nelson and the PNMT teaching staff help you to practice with the confidence and creativity that comes from deep understanding, rather than the adherence to one treatment approach or technique.

Find our seminar schedule at pnmt.org/seminar-schedule with over 60 weekends of seminars across the country.

Or meet us online in the PNMT Portal, our online gateway with access to over 500 videos, 37 NCBTMB CEs, our Discovery Series webinars, one-on-one mentoring, and much, much more! All for the low yearly cost of $167.50. Learn more at pnmt.thinkific.com/courses/pnmtportal!

Follow us on social media: @precisionnmt on Instagram or at Precision Neuromuscular Therapy Seminars on Facebook.