The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria

In Session 331, I sat down with Dr. Ben Seifert to talk about some of the most challenging — and important — work happening in applied behavior analysis today: supporting individuals with severe problem behavior.

Ben shared his journey into the field, beginning with his early experiences at Lindamood-Bell and later at BACA under the mentorship of Carl Sundberg and others who helped shape his clinical perspective. Along the way, we discussed what originally drew him toward working with clients who many providers often avoid, and why he remains deeply committed to ensuring that all individuals have access to meaningful, compassionate support.

We spent a good amount of time talking about trends in the ABA marketplace, including the growing difficulty families face when trying to access services for older learners or individuals with significant behavioral challenges. Ben offered thoughtful commentary on how insurance systems, staffing pressures, and private equity may be influencing the types of services many organizations are willing to provide.

Ben also shared several fascinating clinical stories that highlight the importance of long-term relationship building, careful observation, and interdisciplinary collaboration. One particularly memorable discussion centered around learning to identify subtle behavioral indicators of physical discomfort that would have been easy to miss in a traditional assessment framework.

Toward the second half of the conversation, we shifted into supervision, staff training, and burnout prevention. Ben made a compelling point that supervisors should think of new staff members almost like new learners — people who require shaping, reinforcement, feedback, and support rather than immediate criticism when challenges arise. We also talked openly about clinician mental health, psychological safety within organizations, and the importance of creating environments where people can ask for help.

Finally, Ben shared advice for newly certified BCBAs, including the importance of collaboration, humility, and learning from the frontline staff who often know clients best.

This was a thoughtful and deeply practical conversation that I think clinicians, supervisors, and graduate students alike will get a lot out of.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Ben's path into behavior analysis
• Early mentorship experiences at BACA
• His early career experiences at the Central Texas Autism Center
• What led him to found Collaborate ABA
• Why severe problem behavior services are becoming harder to access
• Insurance and marketplace pressures affecting clinical care
• The importance of interdisciplinary collaboration
• Clinical case examples involving subtle behavioral indicators
• Long-term relationship building with clients and families
• Supervision strategies for supporting RBTs and frontline staff
• Staff burnout and mental health
• Advice for newly certified BCBAs

Reach out to Ben on LinkedIn, or follow Collaborate ABA in Instagram!

Sponsor shoutouts!

• Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
• The 2026 Behavior Supports in Schools Conference. This conference is designed for the educators, administrators, and staff who support students' behavioral health, social-emotional needs, and behavioral challenges. Both in-person and online attendees will have the opportunity to network with colleagues and learn innovative, evidence-based approaches to supporting children in school settings. It's taking place in Tumwater, WA and virtually via BehaviorLive on 5/29/26. I have the honor of presenting the keynote address, and there are many other great topics that will be discussed throughout the day, so I hope to see you there!
• CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.
• The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!

In this episode, I'm joined by Drs. Brandon May and Maggie Pavone, and Kate Heersink to talk about how we can better support healthier lifestyles for individuals with developmental disabilities.

We start by digging into how each of them came to this work. Maggie shares some early experiences working as a direct support professional, where she began to notice patterns between food-related variables and challenging behavior. Brandon talks about coming into behavior analysis through the health and fitness world, and seeing firsthand how difficult it was to support individuals in building healthier routines without a clear behavioral framework. Kate adds her perspective from working with individuals with brain injury, where the connection between physical health and overall functioning is hard to ignore.

We also spend some time acknowledging that this isn't entirely new territory. There's a solid body of work—both within and outside of behavior analysis—focused on physical activity and health for individuals with disabilities. At the same time, there's still a gap when it comes to practical, easy-to-implement tools that can be used by the people doing the day-to-day work.

From there, we get into the early development of the Fit 4 All program and how it's currently being implemented in a day program setting for adults with developmental disabilities. Kate walks through what a typical session looks like, including:

• Starting the day by ensuring wearable tech (e.g., a Fitbit) is in place
• Using a token system tied to individualized goals (hydration, movement, functional fitness, and nutrition skills)
• Embedding physical activity throughout the day (walking, fitness videos, etc.)
• Teaching basic nutrition concepts using structured learning trials
• Incorporating functional skills like cooking where appropriate

One of the things I appreciated about this approach is how integrated it is. Rather than treating exercise or nutrition as separate, isolated targets, they're woven into the flow of the day and supported through clear contingencies and reinforcement systems.

We also talk about the importance of working within real-world environments. This isn't about creating tightly controlled, clinic-based interventions—it's about meeting people where they are and building systems that can be implemented by direct support staff, teachers, and caregivers in the settings where individuals actually live and spend their time.

This is very much a "boots on the ground" application of behavior analysis—figuring out how to increase things like step count, heart rate, and water consumption in ways that are practical, sustainable, and individualized. And like a lot of good ABA work, it involves ongoing problem-solving—adjusting activities, testing different approaches, and using data to guide decisions.

If you're a BCBA, or someone working directly with individuals with developmental disabilities, this conversation is a good reminder that health and wellness is an area where our science has a lot to offer—and probably more room to grow.

🔑 Key Takeaways

• Health behaviors (movement, nutrition, hydration) are behavior—and can be addressed using behavior-analytic principles
• Many professionals feel underprepared to support these areas without a structured framework
• Embedding interventions into natural environments (e.g., day programs) increases feasibility and sustainability
• Simple systems (token boards, wearable data, clear goals) can support meaningful behavior change
• Effective programming in this area requires flexibility, creativity, and ongoing data-based decision making

🧩 Why This Matters

Individuals with developmental disabilities are often at higher risk for health-related issues tied to sedentary behavior and diet. At the same time, these are areas that don't always receive systematic attention in programming.

This is one place where behavior analysis can have a meaningful impact on long-term quality of life.

📚 Resources Mentioned

• Prior episode with Brandon (Session 127: What is Behavioral Sports Psychology?)
• Researchers mentioned:
  • James Rimmer
  • Ray Miltenberger
  • Matt Normand
  • Tim Hackenberg
• DeLuca and Holburn (1992). Effects of a variable-ratio reinforcement schedule with changing criteria on exercise in obese and nonobese boys

Sponsors

• CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!
• The Whoop Strap. If you want to take control of your health and fitness, start by getting the data you need with the Whoop Strap. And by using this link, you'll get your first month free!

In Session 329, I'm joined once again by Dr. Nick Green, Ph.D., BCBA-D, who's been doing some really interesting work at the intersection of fitness and behavior science.

In this episode, Nick walks us through the basics of heart rate training zones and why simply "working out" isn't always enough. We talk about the general recommendation of 150 minutes of moderate to vigorous activity per week, but more importantly, how to make sure that time is actually spent in the right zones—particularly Zones 2 through 4—where you're going to see real cardiovascular benefits.

From there, we get into VO2 max, what it is, why it matters, and how you can measure or estimate it—even without access to a lab. Nick also shares some practical training strategies, including the Norwegian 4x4 protocol, which is a structured way to improve cardiovascular fitness through intervals of high-intensity work followed by recovery.

As you might expect, we also spend a good amount of time talking about behavior. Why is it so hard for people to stick with an exercise routine? What gets in the way? And how can we apply behavior-analytic principles to improve adherence?

Nick makes a compelling case for the role of planning and accountability. One of the things he's seen in his coaching practice is that when people invest in structured support, they're much more likely to follow through. We talk about how environmental variables, scheduling, and clear contingencies can make or break a fitness routine.

This was a really practical conversation—whether you're a behavior analyst looking to apply these principles to your own life, or just someone trying to get a little more consistent with exercise.

If you're interested in working with Nick or learning more about his coaching services, be sure to check out his website, which you can find in the resource list below:

• BehaviorFit.com (Nick's website; check out his courses here!)
• Nick on LinkedIn
• BehaviorFit's Instagram
• Nick's previous BOP Interviews: Session 47, Session 105, and Session 132
• Fogel, et al. (2010). The effects of exergaming on physical activity among inactive children in a physical education classroom.
• Green, et al. (2016). Decreasing bouts of prolonged sitting among office workers.
• Heart Rate Training 101
• Heart Rate Zone Calculator
• Norwegian 4X4 Study
• Norwegian 4X4 20-Year Heart-Age Reduction Study
• High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) effects on VO2 Max

Sponsor Shoutouts!

• Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
• CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.
• The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!

Episode Summary

In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Daniel Fienup, Dr. Kate Loomis, and Lilian Morales to discuss their recent paper in JABA, Turning the Page: Increasing children's preference for looking at and engaging with books.

In this episode, we explore how books can function as powerful reinforcers for young children, especially in early learning and ABA contexts. We discuss how to identify when books are actually reinforcing, how to condition books as reinforcers if they're not already, and practical strategies for incorporating them into teaching and behavior support.

Key Topics Covered 1. What Makes Something a Reinforcer?

• Reinforcers are defined by their effect on behavior—not by intention

• A book is only a reinforcer if it increases the likelihood of a behavior

• Preference ≠ reinforcement (must test it)

2. Are Books Naturally Reinforcing?

• For some children: yes (especially those with strong interest in stories, visuals, or routines)

• For others: books may be neutral or even aversive

• Depends on learning history and prior pairing

3. Conditioning Books as Reinforcers

• Pair books with already-established reinforcers (e.g., attention, snacks, praise)

• Make reading interactive and engaging (voices, movement, pointing, questions)

• Start with short durations and build up tolerance/enjoyment

• Follow the child's lead (let them turn pages, choose books, etc.)

4. Embedding Books into Teaching

• Use books as part of discrete trial or natural environment teaching

• Reinforce responses with brief access to a favorite book

• Incorporate targets into reading (labeling, WH questions, listener responding)

• Use repeated readings to build fluency and predictability

5. Expanding Reinforcer Repertoires

• Why it matters: reduces reliance on edibles or screens

• Books are portable, social, and developmentally beneficial

• Helps build early literacy and joint attention skills

6. Common Mistakes

• Assuming all kids like books

• Using books too long as a reinforcer (loses value)

• Not rotating or updating book options

• Ignoring signs of disengagement

7. Practical Tips

• Keep a small "high-value" book rotation

• Use novelty strategically

• Observe what aspects the child enjoys (pictures, repetition, sensory elements)

• Track what actually increases responding

Takeaways

• Books can absolutely function as reinforcers—but only if conditioned or preferred

• Pairing and engagement are key to building their value

• Using books as reinforcers supports both behavior change and language development

Resources

• Tsai and Greer (2006). Conditioned Observation of Books and Accelerated Acquisition of Textual Responding by Preschool Children.

• Teachers College MA in ABA program.

• Teachers College Ph.D. in ABA program.

• Kanazawa et al. (2024). A comparison of parental attention and preferred items during tummy time: A consecutive controlled case series evaluation.

• D. Ross & R. Douglas Greer (Eds.). (2025). When Text Speaks: Learning to Read and Reading to Learn. Sloan Publishing.

• The Fred S. Keller School.

• Comprehensive Application of Behavior Analysis to Schooling (CABAS).

Comportamiento, espacio y algoritmos: Análisis de la conducta recargado

En este episodio de Espacio y Comportamiento, Miguel Avila conversa con Alejandro León sobre una dimensión del comportamiento que históricamente ha sido poco explorada en nuestro campo: el espacio.

Más allá de medir cuándo ocurre una conducta o cuántas veces se presenta, esta conversación propone mirar dónde ocurre, cómo nos movemos en el ambiente y cómo los patrones de acercamiento, alejamiento y trayectoria espacial organizan el comportamiento. Alejandro comparte su recorrido poco convencional desde la ingeniería y las matemáticas hacia la psicología científica y el análisis de la conducta, así como el papel clave que tuvo la experimentación, la interdisciplinariedad y la creatividad metodológica en su carrera.

A lo largo del episodio exploramos cómo herramientas modernas como la visión por computadora, el análisis tridimensional del movimiento, los algoritmos matemáticos y las bioseñales (como la variabilidad cardíaca en tiempo real) están permitiendo un "análisis de la conducta recargado": fiel a sus principios, pero expandido por nuevas tecnologías.

La conversación aterriza estos conceptos en aplicaciones prácticas para contextos clínicos, educativos y de investigación, mostrando cómo analistas de conducta —sin convertirse en ingenieros— pueden empezar a integrar el análisis espacial, colaborar con otras disciplinas y mejorar la evaluación, el diseño de ambientes y la prevención de riesgos.

Un episodio inspirador para la comunidad latinoamericana y global, que demuestra que es posible innovar, producir ciencia de alto impacto y dialogar con otras disciplinas desde nuestra región hacia el mundo.

Behavior, Space, and Algorithms: Behavior Analysis Reloaded

In this episode of Space and Behavior, Miguel Avila sits down with Alejandro León to explore a dimension of behavior that has long been overlooked in our field: space.

Rather than focusing only on when behavior occurs or how often it happens, this conversation invites us to examine where behavior unfolds, how organisms move through environments, and how spatial patterns of approach, avoidance, and trajectories organize behavior over time. Alejandro shares his unconventional journey from engineering and mathematics into scientific psychology and behavior analysis, highlighting the role of experimental work, interdisciplinary collaboration, and methodological creativity.

The episode dives into how modern tools—such as computer vision, three-dimensional motion tracking, mathematical algorithms, and physiological signals like real-time heart rate variability—are making it possible to study behavior in ways that were unimaginable during the time of Watson, Thorndike, or Skinner. The result is a "reloaded" behavior analysis: conceptually rigorous, yet technologically expanded.

Listeners will also hear concrete examples of how spatial data and bio-signals can inform functional assessment, environmental design, intervention planning, safety, and early detection of behavioral patterns—without requiring clinicians to become engineers.

This episode is both practical and inspirational, especially for researchers, students, and practitioners in Latin America and beyond, showing that meaningful innovation in behavior analysis can emerge locally while achieving global scientific impact.

Thanks for joining me for Session 326 of The Behavioral Observations Podcast. This episode was recorded live at the 2025 Verbal Behavior Conference, where I had the honor of moderating the annual panel discussion.

If you haven't attended a previous Verbal Behavior Conference, you're in luck, because the next one is coming up in just a few short weeks. The 2026 VBC will be held on March 26th and 27th, and it will be preceded by a full day workshop.

If you've listened to the show for any length of time, you've heard my go on about how unique this conference is. If not, please indulge me for a moment. The VBC is unlike any other event because each presenter gives two talks across the two days of the conference. This provides them opportunities to dive deeper into their subject matter, which gives audience members so much more information to improve their practice with.

If you attend in person, you'll have numerous opportunities to interact directly with the speakers too. Whether that's between sessions getting coffee, grabbing lunch in the nearby cafe, or at the poster sessions, you're probably going to have a chance to pick their brains.

If you can't be there in person, BehaviorLive provides a top-notch virtual experience. I'd also say that the VBC has a very consistent and engaged online community too, to the point of me being able to recognize many online attendees' names having seen their chat commentaries for the past few years.

For this year, the VBC is pulling out all the stops by hosting a discussion with Drs. Patrick McGreevy and Mark Sundberg, where they will talk about how to decide whether a learner should continue with VB-MAPP-like learning objectives, or transition to a functional curriculum, such as Essential for Living.

Thanks for indulging me, back to this episode...

This panel dives into some of the most pressing clinical and practical questions facing practitioners today — from navigating difficult conversations with parents to the nuanced intricacies of mand training, motivating operations, and supporting learners with limited reinforcers.

Whether you are a seasoned BCBA, or an aspiring behavior analyst, this episode is packed with the kind of insight you're just not going to get anywhere else.

Featured Panelists

• Dr. Judah Axe

• Dr. Patrick McGreevy

• Dr. Barbara Esch

• Dr. Caio Miguel

• Dr. April Kisamore

• Dr. Nicole Rodriguez

• Dr. Tiffany Kodak

Topics Covered in This Episode

• Transitioning from Language Acquisition to Functional Skills Curricula
• The Momentary Nature of Motivating Operations
• Mand Training with Learners Who Engage in Self-Stimulatory Behavior
• Working with Learners Who Have Very Limited Reinforcers
• Pre-Requisite Skills for Learning More Complex Forms of Verbal Behavior
• Instructional Control Pre-Requisites for Teaching Echoic Repertoires
• Challenges of Conducting Clinical Research in Verbal Behavior
• Supporting Learners from Bilingual Households

Sponsor Shoutouts!

• The School Behavioral Solutions for Special Educators & Behavior Analysts. The Behavior Toolbox Conference is a one-day, high-impact professional convening that brings together experienced practitioners and leaders from across education and behavior science to share what actually works in schools. While the live event has come and gone, it is available on-demand through BehaviorLive.
• Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
• CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.

In this episode, I talk with Dr. Alice Shillingsburg about her work on rapport building and pairing procedures in applied behavior analysis for children with autism. We explore how building therapeutic rapport goes beyond simply "liking someone," emphasizing the importance of establishing trust and engagement to facilitate learning, especially when tasks are challenging.

Alice explains the nine-stage pairing protocol she developed and highlights how careful timing, observation, and reinforcement choices can make pairing effective. We discuss the significance of observing children's approach behaviors to understand their preferences and keep therapy engaging, as well as how instructional fading can gradually increase task difficulty without creating aversive experiences.

During our conversation, we took a quick sidebar to talk about the upcoming Verbal Behavior Conference. This is a conference like none other. Whether you participate online or make the short drive to Austin, you'll be treated to very in-depth talks about generative learning for individuals with Autism and related disabilities. Learn more and register here.

We also dive into practical applications — how pairing and instructional procedures can be adapted in real-world therapy settings, while still maintaining their effectiveness. Alice talks about data collection strategies for engagement and behavior, including the importance of tracking approach behaviors, avoidance, and other signals of a child's readiness.

Finally, we consider the sustainability of pairing procedures over time and potential directions for future research, including investigating methods of instructional fading and tracking gestural communication development in children with autism.

Resources Mentioned

• Shillingsburg, et al. (2019). Rapport Building and Instructional Fading Prior to Discrete Trial Instruction: Moving From Child-Led Play to Intensive Teaching
• Cariveau, et al. (2020). A Structured Intervention to Increase Response Allocation to Instructional Settings for Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder
• Shillingsburg, et al. (2014). Increasing social approach and decreasing social avoidance in children with autism spectrum disorder during discrete trial training

Sponsor Shoutouts

• The School Behavioral Solutions for Special Educators & Behavior Analysts. The Behavior Toolbox Conference is a one-day, high-impact professional convening that brings together experienced practitioners and leaders from across education and behavior science to share what actually works in schools. It's taking place virtually through BehaviorLive on March 5th, 2026, and will be available on-demand for those who can't make it on the day of the event.
• CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• The 2026 Verbal Behavior Conference! Taking place March 26–27, 2026, in Austin, Texas, or livestream and on-demand on BehaviorLive. Presenters will include Drs. Mark Sundberg, Patrick McGreevy, Caio Miguel, Alice Shillingsburg, Sarah Frampton, Andresa De Souza, and Danielle LaFrance will share how Skinner's analysis of verbal behavior can guide the assessment and treatment of generative learning challenges in children with autism and other developmental disabilities. And don't miss the special pre-conference workshop on Wednesday, March 25.

In Session 324, Dr. Paulie Gavoni and Steve Ward join me to discuss what resilience actually looks like from a behavior science perspective — and why many well-intentioned adult responses can unintentionally teach avoidance instead of persistence.

We center our conversation around their book, S.H.I.T. Happens: Building Resilient Children in a Fragile World, which reframes resilience not as a personality trait or motivational slogan, but as a set of learnable repertoires shaped by the environments adults design

We talk about:

• Why resilience is a behavioral repertoire, not a mindset or personality trait
• The hidden ways adult anxiety shapes children's learning environments
• How overprotection and pressure both undermine skill development
• Designing "successful struggle" so kids contact reinforcement for effort
• Everyday moments — homework, sports, emotional setbacks — as resilience practice
• The adult's role as guide, not rescuer or drill sergeant
• Teaching recovery instead of avoidance
• Scaling challenges to build confidence and persistence
• Why discomfort is information, not danger

This discussion emphasizes practical decision-making: how small changes in adult behavior can create conditions where children learn to try again, persist longer, and experience the satisfaction of overcoming something difficult.

Whether you're a practitioner, educator, or parent, this episode highlights how resilience is built through repeated opportunities to struggle safely — and why those opportunities matter more than we often realize.

Resources mentioned:

• Paulie and Steve's book
• Assent & Trauma Informed Care: A Call for Nuance in Behavior Analysis
• Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In (course)
• Adaptive Intelligence: The Evolution of Emotional Intelligence Through the Proven Power of Behavior Science
• Paulie's other books
• Kind Extinction: A Procedural Variation on Traditional Extinction
• The Four Leadership Hats: Applying Behavioral Science to Leadership and Supervision (Session 321 with John Guercio)
• The ACT Matrix: A New Approach to Building Psychological Flexibility Across Settings and Population
• Session 313: Client Assent in Behavior Analysis: Balancing Autonomy and Clinical Progress (Ethics CE available)

Sponsor shoutouts

• The School Behavioral Solutions for Special Educators & Behavior Analysts. The Behavior Toolbox Conference is a one-day, high-impact professional convening that brings together experienced practitioners and leaders from across education and behavior science to share what actually works in schools. It's taking place virtually through BehaviorLive on March 5th, 2026, and will be available on-demand for those who can't make it on the day of the event.
• Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
• CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.

In this episode of the Behavioral Observations Podcast, I'm joined by Kim Dean, founder of Apollo Behavior, and Kristen Vaughn, Vice President of Clinical Operations, to talk about what it really takes to build and sustain clinical excellence in autism services.

We discuss Apollo's decision to launch in Georgia, their highly selective hiring process, and how values alignment plays a central role in building their culture. Kim and Kristen share how Apollo approaches training differently — including a four-week RBT onboarding program that exceeds certification requirements and a structured mentorship model for BCBAs.

The results are notable, with 99% of Apollo's RBTs passing their exams on the first attempt! Even more impressive is that 84% of Apollo-trained BCBAs pass their exam on the first attempt too. Compared to the current average pass rate that hovers around 52-54%, that's simply amazing!

We also dig into how Apollo defines and measures clinical excellence, including the use of norm-referenced assessments, family feedback, progress toward less restrictive environments, and ongoing data analysis to improve training and service delivery.

This conversation is especially relevant for BCBAs, clinical leaders, and practice owners who are thinking seriously about how to scale services without sacrificing quality — and how to design systems that support clinicians, families, and long-term outcomes.

If this sounds like a great work environment to you, and you'd like to learn more, click here.

Related BOP Episodes:

• From Clinician to Leader: Apollo CSS 8 with Kristen Vaughn

• All previous Apollo Series BOP episodes

This podcast is brought to you by:

• The School Behavioral Solutions for Special Educators & Behavior Analysts. The Behavior Toolbox Conference is a one-day, high-impact professional convening that brings together experienced practitioners and leaders from across education and behavior science to share what actually works in schools. Rather than relying on theory divorced from practice, this conference features presenters who actively operate within classrooms, districts, research settings, and state-level systems. Behavior analysts, educators, researchers, and system leaders come together to examine behavior change from multiple levels of impact — adult behavior, decision-making, values, and the systems that shape outcomes. It's taking place virtually through BehaviorLive on March 5th, 2026, and will be available on-demand for those who can't make it on the day of the event.
• Office Puzzle: A thriving ABA practice depends on systems that actually support your team, not slow them down. If you've struggled with software that's buggy, hard to navigate, or offers little support when you need it most, you're not alone. That's why so many practices are switching to Office Puzzle. Go to officepuzzle.com/bop to learn more!
• The 2026 Verbal Behavior Conference! Taking place March 26–27, 2026, in Austin, Texas, or livestream and on-demand on BehaviorLive. Presenters will include Drs. Mark Sundberg, Patrick McGreevy, Caio Miguel, Alice Shillingsburg, Sarah Frampton, Andresa De Souza, and Danielle LaFrance will share how Skinner's analysis of verbal behavior can guide the assessment and treatment of generative learning challenges in children with autism and other developmental disabilities. And don't miss the special pre-conference workshop on Wednesday, March 25.
• CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.

En este episodio, Miguel conversa con María Sánchez, una profesional con un impacto notable en la formación de analistas de conducta en España y Latinoamérica. La charla gira en torno al Behavioral Skills Training (BST) o Entrenamiento de Habilidades Conductuales: qué es, cómo se aplica en la práctica y por qué sigue siendo una de las herramientas más efectivas para entrenar tanto a profesionales como a familias.

María comparte su recorrido profesional, que comienza en Inglaterra en un centro para niños con autismo y evoluciona hacia su trabajo en PECS, donde encontró su vocación inesperada en la supervisión y formación de otros profesionales. Trabajó en la capacitación de profesionales en Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Costa Rica y España, observando de primera mano el poder transformador de la comunicación aumentativa, especialmente en niños no verbales que comienzan a desarrollar estructuras de lenguaje más complejas.

Durante la pandemia, y tras el cierre inicial en Italia, María reinventó su práctica y creó 360 Online, un proyecto de formación remota para garantizar que profesionales en regiones aisladas pudieran acceder a entrenamientos RBT e IBT de calidad. Desde entonces, ha formado a cientos de estudiantes a través de clases sincrónicas, colaboraciones con centros en Latinoamérica y sesiones a distancia altamente prácticas.

Miguel y María profundizan en el procedimiento BST —instrucciones, modelado, juego de roles y retroalimentación—, explorando cómo implementarlo eficazmente con adultos, cómo dar feedback específico sin sobrecargar, y cómo equilibrar correcciones con reconocimiento positivo. También dialogan sobre las ventajas y desafíos de entrenar a distancia, la importancia ética de proteger la privacidad de clientes y familias, la necesidad de fomentar ambientes de aprendizaje seguros y empoderadores, el rol del telehealth en la generalización de habilidades y las demandas formativas reales en España y Latinoamérica, donde muchos profesionales tienen apenas una o dos horas semanales para cumplir con las 40 horas requeridas.

Antes de cerrar, María ofrece consejos esenciales para quienes están en el campo del análisis de conducta, subrayando la importancia del trabajo en equipo, la práctica deliberada y la humildad profesional.

BOP in English: BST with María Sánchez

In this episode, Miguel speaks with María Sánchez, a professional with a remarkable impact on the training of behavior analysts across Spain and Latin America. The conversation centers on Behavioral Skills Training (BST)—what it is, how it is applied in practice, and why it remains one of the most effective tools for training both professionals and families.

María shares her professional journey, which began in England at a center for children with autism and later led her to her work with PECS, where she unexpectedly discovered her passion for supervision and professional training. She provided training to professionals in Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Costa Rica, and Spain, witnessing firsthand the transformative power of augmentative communication, especially in nonverbal children who begin developing more complex language structures.

During the pandemic—and after the initial shutdown in Italy—María reinvented her practice and created 360 Online, a remote training project designed to ensure that professionals in isolated regions could access high-quality RBT and IBT training. Since then, she has trained hundreds of students through synchronous classes, collaborations with centers across Latin America, and highly practical remote sessions.

Miguel and María dive into the *BST procedure—instructions, modeling, role play, and feedback—*discussing how to implement it effectively with adults, how to provide specific feedback without overwhelming, and how to balance corrections with positive reinforcement. They also explore the advantages and challenges of remote training, the ethical importance of protecting client and family privacy, the need to foster safe and empowering learning environments, the role of telehealth in skill generalization, and the training demands faced in Spain and Latin America, where many practitioners have only one or two hours per week to complete the required 40 hours.

Before wrapping up, María shares essential advice for those in the field of behavior analysis, emphasizing teamwork, deliberate practice, and professional humility.