The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria

What exactly do we mean when we say we're "fading" a prompt? Is a physical prompt inherently more intrusive—or more difficult to eliminate—than a gestural or verbal prompt? And what does "errorless learning" actually tell us about the teaching procedures we're using?

Dr. Andy Bondy returns to the podcast to tackle these questions through the lens of gradualism: the idea that meaningful behavioral change often emerges through small changes that accumulate over time.

Andy has recently been presenting on gradualism to behavior analysts and other professionals, and in this conversation we explore what the concept might contribute to the way we think about teaching, prompting, generalization, and skill development.

We begin by discussing gradualism across fields such as biology, geology, and psychology before turning to its implications for behavior analysis. Andy contrasts the traditional tendency to examine discrete behavioral units with an approach that considers the flow of behavior across longer periods of time.

From there, we take a closer look at prompts. Andy distinguishes prompts from cues and argues that prompts should be defined functionally—by whether they actually improve performance—rather than simply by their form.

We also examine some familiar language surrounding prompt hierarchies. In particular, Andy questions terms such as "intrusiveness" and "restrictiveness" when those properties aren't tied to directly measurable dimensions. If we're fading a prompt, he argues, we should be able to say what we're actually changing: distance, force, volume, time, or another measurable property.

This leads to a larger question: Is there evidence that particular types of prompts are universally easier or harder to fade?

We discuss the implications of that question for commonly used least-to-most and most-to-least prompting systems, as well as what it might look like to assess prompt effectiveness at the level of the individual learner and skill rather than relying exclusively on predetermined hierarchies.

Later in the conversation, we broaden the discussion to generalization and fluency. Andy argues that programming for generalization shouldn't begin only after a skill reaches mastery and that behavior analysts should attend not only to stimulus generalization, but also to important dimensions of the response itself—including rate, duration, speed, and fluency.

Finally, we discuss "errorless learning." Andy questions whether the term provides enough information about what an instructor is actually doing and suggests that minimizing errors—while naming the specific procedures being used, such as fading or time delay—may be a more useful way to describe our teaching.

Topics discussed include:

• What gradualism means in behavior analysis
• Prompts versus cues
• What makes a prompt a prompt
• Prompt fading versus changing prompt types
• Problems with terms such as "intrusiveness" and "restrictiveness"
• Whether prompt hierarchies should be individualized
• Assessing prompt effectiveness
• Stimulus and response generalization
• Accuracy versus fluency
• Programming for rate and speed
• Why generalization should be considered from the beginning of instruction
• "Errorless learning" versus minimizing errors
• The importance of describing teaching procedures in measurable, observable terms

This conversation offers a useful challenge to several pieces of behavior-analytic terminology that can become so familiar that we stop asking exactly what they mean—and whether our language accurately describes what we're doing.

If you want to hear more from Andy, you can join him, along with Lori Frost and other invited speakers from around the world on October 20th for the Pyramid FUNctional Conference 2026: Learning That Lasts. Explore practical strategies for supporting communication, independence, safety, access, and meaningful outcomes across the lifespan.

This episode is brought to you by the following sponsors:

• Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
• Safety-Care is a crisis prevention and de-escalation training program designed for professionals who support individuals with challenging behavior. More than 300,000 professionals have been trained in Safety-Care's evidence-based approach to recognizing early warning signs and responding with confidence. To learn more, visit QBS.com/podcast.
• Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.

What does it look like to assess and treat severe problem behavior when safety concerns have become so significant that a student can no longer participate successfully in their typical school environment?

In this episode, Dr. Cory Whelan joins me to discuss his work at Seasons Behavioral Services, where he and Dr. Kara LaCroix have developed an intensive model for assessing and treating dangerous behavior while helping students build the skills they'll need to return to less restrictive settings.

Cory brings an unusual perspective to this work. He is dually certified as a speech-language pathologist and behavior analyst, and his career has taken him from challenging school environments in Washington, D.C., to doctoral training at Western New England University, where he worked with Dr. Greg Hanley and became involved in the development and application of practical functional assessment and skill-based treatment approaches.

We talk about how Seasons works with students who may be waiting for an out-of-district placement—or whose behavior has become too dangerous for their current educational setting—and what happens during their approximately three-month intensive treatment model.

Cory describes how his team uses a universal protocol when students first arrive, with an emphasis on minimizing evocative situations and creating conditions in which students can safely engage with staff before assessment begins. From there, we walk through their approach to caregiver interviews, practical functional assessment, and skill-based treatment.

We also spend quite a bit of time discussing something that can sometimes get lost when talking about highly technical treatment procedures: clinical judgment.

Cory explains why he trains staff not simply to follow a protocol mechanically, but to continually evaluate what is happening in front of them and make decisions that prioritize the safety and dignity of the person they're serving. We discuss what that looks like when problem behavior occurs unexpectedly, why backing off from a demand isn't necessarily a clinical failure, and how thoughtful decision-making fits within function-based treatment.

We also get into some of the nuances of conducting effective functional assessment interviews, including:

• Building rapport before jumping into questions about problem behavior.
• Identifying precursors and subtle indicators that a situation is becoming difficult.
• Asking about activities caregivers or staff may have stopped attempting altogether.
• Using clinical judgment alongside structured interview tools.
• What it means when an analysis doesn't produce the behavior you expected to see.

Finally, we discuss one of the hardest parts of intensive behavioral treatment: generalization and transition. A student may make tremendous progress in a highly trained treatment environment, but what happens when they move to a school or program with different staff, resources, and contingencies? Cory shares both the successes and limitations they've encountered when trying to support receiving programs and maintain treatment gains across settings.

If you're interested in practical functional assessment and skill-based treatment—particularly how these approaches work with severe behavior in real-world clinical and educational environments—I think you'll get a lot out of this conversation.

Resources Mentioned

• Seasons Behavioral Services (which, by the way, is an awesome place to work!)
• Practical Functional Assessment resources - we cited numerous papers in the PFA/SBT literature. Rather than link them all, you can find downloadable PDFs of all of them here.
• OG podcasts on PFA/SBT to get you up to speed. Sessions 1, 7, 20, 94, 160, 219, and 283. I could cite many more, but these will give you a great start.
• Shoutout to The Hawaii Association for Behavior Analysis.

Sponsor Shoutouts

• CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!
• Safety-Care is a crisis prevention and de-escalation training program designed for professionals who support individuals with challenging behavior. More than 300,000 professionals have been trained in Safety-Care's evidence-based approach to recognizing early warning signs and responding with confidence. To learn more, visit QBS.com/podcast.
• The Behavioral Toolbox International. Check out our courses for school-based and other behavioral professionals, including our newest one, Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a colleague and leaving a rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts.

Gestalt Language Processing (GLP) and Natural Language Acquisition (NLA) have become extraordinarily popular in speech-language pathology, particularly in conversations about autistic children who use echolalia.

But what exactly is a "Gestalt Language Processor?" How would we know if someone is one? And perhaps most importantly, what does the research actually tell us about the claims and treatment recommendations associated with GLP and NLA?

In this episode, I'm joined by speech-language pathologist Kathleen Oppenheimer, who has spent considerable time examining these questions through the lens of language science and psycholinguistics.

Kathleen describes how she first encountered GLP and NLA on social media during the pandemic and why some of the claims she encountered immediately raised questions for her as someone trained in linguistics.

We unpack the distinction between language production and language processing, and discuss why observing the words and phrases a child says cannot necessarily tell us how that child is processing language.

We also explore an important nuance in this debate: Many practices commonly associated with NLA are quite reasonable—and in some cases very well aligned with established, evidence-based approaches. Following the child's lead, building strong therapeutic relationships, recognizing echolalia as meaningful communication, and honoring multiple forms of communication are all valuable practices.

But those practices aren't unique to NLA.

Kathleen contrasts NLA recommendations with research-supported approaches such as Enhanced Milieu Teaching, and explains why recommendations involving prompting, single-word models, verbs, and grammatical language input matter for language development.

Along the way, we discuss:

• What GLP and NLA actually claim about language development.
• Why defining and reliably identifying a "Gestalt Language Processor" is more difficult than social media might suggest.
• The difference between what a child says and how researchers determine what a child is actually processing.
• What psycholinguistic methods such as the visual world paradigm can tell us about real-time language comprehension.
• Why echolalia can be meaningful communication without accepting the larger GLP/NLA framework.
• The substantial areas of common ground between NLA proponents and research-aligned language interventions.
• Why following a child's lead and honoring their communication does not require adopting NLA stages.
• How Enhanced Milieu Teaching differs from NLA-based intervention.
• Concerns about recommendations to avoid or delay modeling single words, verbs, and certain grammatical forms.
• What we know—and don't know—about the empirical evidence supporting GLP/NLA.
• How social media can turn nuanced clinical ideas into much broader claims.
• The potential costs of implementing unsupported interventions, even when those interventions appear benign.
• How clinicians can have productive conversations with colleagues and families who have embraced GLP/NLA.
• Why clear, jargon-free explanations of what we're doing in therapy—and why we're doing it—matter.

One thing I especially appreciated about this conversation is that Kathleen doesn't approach this as a simple choice between being "for" or "against" GLP/NLA. Instead, she encourages us to pull apart the individual claims and practices, retain the components that are supported by evidence, and scrutinize those that aren't.

For clinicians navigating an increasingly complicated landscape of research, social media, and rapidly spreading treatment approaches, I think that's an incredibly useful framework.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• Kathleen's Instagram: @language_processing
• Kathleen's course: GLP and NLA: Analyzing the Claims and Evidence.
• Kathleen's website: Oppenheimer Speech and Language, LLC.
• Lorang, et al., (2026). A Response to Blanc and Colleagues' Viewpoint on Gestalt Language Processing and the Natural Language Acquisition Protocol: Concerns and Common Ground.
• Hutchins, et al., (2024). Natural Language Acquisition and Gestalt Language Processing: A Critical Analysis of Their Application to Autism and Speech Language Therapy.
• Dollaghan, C. (2007). Evidence-based practice in communication disorders.
• Bredin-Oja and Fey (2014). Children's Responses to Telegraphic and Grammatically Complete Prompts to Imitate.
• Kang, et al., (2025). Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Enhanced Milieu Teaching.

Sponsor shoutouts:

• Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
• Safety-Care is a crisis prevention and de-escalation training program designed for professionals who support individuals with challenging behavior. More than 300,000 professionals have been trained in Safety-Care's evidence-based approach to recognizing early warning signs and responding with confidence. To learn more, visit QBS.com/podcast.
• Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.
• The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!

Welcome to Session 336 The Behavioral Observations Podcast.

Well technically, this is actually Session 199, and I wanted to take a minute to explain why you're hearing a rebroadcast.

This conversation with Dr. Jason Travers originally aired back in September of 2022, but I've decided it's worth bringing back because, unfortunately, the issues surrounding Facilitated Communication haven't gone away. In fact, if anything, they've become more relevant.

Over the past several years, we've continued to see heartwarming news stories and viral social media posts featuring non-speaking autistic individuals who appear to be communicating through methods such as Facilitated Communication, the Rapid Prompting Method, or Spelling to Communicate. These stories are understandably compelling. We all want people with significant communication challenges to have access to effective ways to express themselves.

The problem is that hope, by itself, isn't evidence.

Facilitated Communication has been studied extensively for decades, and the scientific record is remarkably consistent. The evidence has repeatedly shown that the messages produced through FC originate with the facilitator, not the individual. Despite that, these practices continue to find new audiences under different names and in different settings.

As behavior analysts—and really, as anyone who cares about helping people with disabilities—we have an obligation to evaluate interventions based on evidence, even when the conclusions are uncomfortable. That's especially true when the potential harms are so significant, not only for the individuals using these methods, but also for their families, educators, and support teams.

I also think this episode serves as a useful foundation because I plan to cover this topic in greater depth over the coming months, along with other interventions that have gained popularity despite lacking scientific support. Rather than assuming everyone has heard this discussion before, I thought it made sense to revisit what I think is one of the clearest introductions to the topic.

So whether you're hearing this conversation for the first time or giving it another listen, I hope you'll pay particular attention to the history of Facilitated Communication, how it was scientifically evaluated, why those findings matter, and how Dr. Travers recommends discussing these issues with colleagues and families in a way that's both accurate and compassionate.

Please note that I edited out the "how did you get into ABA segment," so you can get right to the heart of the topic. I'll include links to the original recording if you want to go back and hear more about Jason's background.

Here are the shownotes from the original broadcast:

If your social media consumption is anything like mine, you've likely seen some feel-good stories in the media as of late that report on non-speaking students - generally students with Autism - who are graduating from college, giving valedictorian speeches, and so forth.

Unfortunately, what's often underpinning many of these cases is a form of Facilitated Communication, or FC for short. What is FC? Glad you asked!

In today's episode, Dr. Jason Travers, Associate Professor at Temple University, joins me today to answer this very question (follow him on Twitter here).

We covered the history of Facilitated Communication, the early scientific investigations that discredited this practice, FC's variants like the Rapid Prompting Method and Spelling to Communicate, where the practice of FC stands today, the harms that Facilitated Communication causes both users and caregivers, and how Behavior Analysts should both view and talk about these practices.

Jason also provides the audience with a treasure trove of additional resources:

• Jason's Research Gate and Google Scholar pages.

• The original Session 199 broadcast.

• Jason's on-demand CEU on Spelling2Communicate (use promo code PODCAST to save at checkout!).

• Facilitatedcommunication.org

• ASHA Policy Statements on Facilitated Communication and Rapid Prompting Method.

• Facilitated Communication—what harm it can do: Confessions of a former facilitator (Boynton, 2012).

• An Examination of the Role of the Facilitator in "Facilitated Communication" (Shane and Kearns, 1994).

• Ideomotor Effect explained.

• The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark (note: Amazon Associated link).

• Skeptic Magazine (Amazon Associate Link); The Skeptical Inquirer.

• The Reading Wars.

• Facilitated Communication: The Clinical and Social Phenomenon (Shane 1994; Amazon Associate Link).

Sponsor shoutouts!

• Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
• Safety-Care is a crisis prevention and de-escalation training program designed for professionals who support individuals with challenging behavior. More than 300,000 professionals have been trained in Safety-Care's evidence-based approach to recognizing early warning signs and responding with confidence. To learn more, visit QBS.com/podcast.
• Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.
• The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!

En este episodio, Miguel conversa con Janet sobre la conducta verbal desde una perspectiva práctica y cultural. A lo largo de la conversación, exploran por qué la conducta verbal sigue siendo una de las áreas más importantes —y a veces más incomprendidas— dentro del análisis de conducta y la educación.

Janet comparte su trayectoria como latina, educadora, investigadora y líder en múltiples iniciativas dentro del campo, así como su experiencia trabajando con comunidades bilingües y culturalmente diversas. Juntos discuten conceptos fundamentales de la conducta verbal, diferencias entre el enfoque de Skinner y la lingüística tradicional, y cómo la motivación, la función y el contexto transforman la manera en que entendemos la comunicación.

El episodio también aborda temas esenciales como el acceso a formación en español, los retos de trabajar con herramientas centradas en el inglés y la necesidad de desarrollar prácticas verdaderamente culturalmente responsivas. Además, conversan sobre iniciativas en América Latina, mentoría para nuevos analistas de conducta, investigación aplicada y el futuro de la conducta verbal en comunidades hispanohablantes.

Una conversación profunda, accesible y relevante para analistas de conducta, educadores, terapeutas, estudiantes y familias interesadas en comprender la comunicación desde una perspectiva más funcional, humana y contextualizada.

Verbal Behavior: Culture, Context, and Functional Communication In this episode, Miguel speaks with Janet about verbal behavior from a practical and cultural perspective. Throughout the conversation, they explore why verbal behavior continues to be one of the most important — and sometimes misunderstood — areas within behavior analysis and education.

Janet shares her journey as a Latina educator, researcher, and leader across multiple initiatives in the field, as well as her experience working with bilingual and culturally diverse communities. Together, they discuss foundational concepts in verbal behavior, differences between Skinner's approach and traditional linguistics, and how motivation, function, and context shape the way we understand communication.

The episode also addresses key topics such as access to verbal behavior training in Spanish, challenges associated with English-centered tools and terminology, and the importance of culturally responsive practices. In addition, they discuss initiatives across Latin America, mentorship for emerging behavior analysts, applied research, and the future of verbal behavior within Spanish-speaking communities.

A thoughtful, accessible, and highly relevant conversation for behavior analysts, educators, therapists, students, and families interested in understanding communication through a more functional, humane, and contextualized lens.

Many behavior analysts have experienced the frustration of teaching a skill successfully in one setting only to discover that it doesn't transfer to the situations where it actually matters. In this episode, I sit down with Kristina Montgomery and Emily Beal Wilkinson of Victory Academy to discuss how Essential for Living (EFL) and event-based teaching can help bridge that gap.

Kristina and Emily share their professional journeys into behavior analysis and describe how discovering Dr. Patrick McGreevy's Essential for Living framework reshaped their approach to supporting learners with limited skill repertoires. Rather than focusing on isolated skill acquisition, EFL prioritizes the development of functional, meaningful skills that improve quality of life and increase independence.

A major focus of our conversation is event-based teaching, an instructional approach that embeds learning opportunities within naturally occurring and highly meaningful activities. From gardening and cooking to operating school cafés and participating in role-playing activities, Kristina and Emily explain how these experiences allow practitioners to teach multiple skills simultaneously while creating natural sources of reinforcement.

We also discuss:

• How Kristina and Emily first discovered Essential for Living and why it resonated with their clinical experiences.
• Why traditional skill-building approaches sometimes fail to produce meaningful generalization.
• The concept of "stacking" activities to address multiple goals through a single event.
• Examples of event-based teaching activities including gardening, cooking, cafés, and community-based experiences.
• A detailed case study illustrating the transition from VB-MAPP-style programming to contextual, event-based instruction.
• How literacy, communication, social, and adaptive skills can be embedded within meaningful activities.
• The role of natural reinforcement in improving learner engagement.
• Their innovative health and wellness program designed to teach tolerance for medical and dental procedures.
• How desensitization training can reduce the need for sedation, restraint, and other restrictive practices.
• The collateral benefits these programs create for families and healthcare providers.
• Research questions related to contextual instruction, assessment, staff satisfaction, and BCBA training.
• Advice for newly certified behavior analysts on professional development and values-based practice.

This episode will be especially valuable for behavior analysts, special educators, and anyone supporting individuals with significant support needs who are looking for practical ways to make instruction more meaningful, functional, and socially significant.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• Essential for Living
• Dr. Patrick McGreevy (see Pat's previous BOP episodes here!)
• Victory Academy
• Katy Bowman and the concept of activity stacking
• Session 218 with Troy Fry
• Event Based Teaching course (save with code BOP20)
• Essential for Living course (save with code BOP20)

Sponsor Shoutouts

• CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!
• Safety-Care is a crisis prevention and de-escalation training program designed for professionals who support individuals with challenging behavior. More than 300,000 professionals have been trained in Safety-Care's evidence-based approach to recognizing early warning signs and responding with confidence. To learn more, visit QBS.com/podcast.
• The Behavioral Toolbox International. Check out our courses for school-based and other behavioral professionals, including our newest one, Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a colleague and leaving a rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts.

How do we determine when a learner has truly mastered a skill?

In behavior analysis, performance criteria such as "80% correct across two sessions" have become nearly ubiquitous. Yet despite their widespread use, many practitioners may be surprised to learn that these criteria have relatively little direct empirical support.

In this episode, I'm joined by Drs. Sarah Richling and Dr. Daniel Fienup to discuss the history, research, and practical implications of mastery criteria in applied behavior analysis. Drawing on their independent lines of research, Sarah and Dan examine how different criterion levels influence skill maintenance and why behavior analysts should think carefully about what constitutes meaningful mastery.

We begin by defining the terminology surrounding mastery and performance criteria and explore several important dimensions that are often overlooked, including criterion level, criterion frequency, supplementary variables, and units of analysis.

The conversation then turns to the origins of the commonly used 80% and 90% thresholds. Although these criteria appear throughout ABA training and practice, Sarah and Dan explain that their widespread adoption may owe more to tradition than to empirical validation.

We also discuss findings from their research comparing 50%, 80%, and 90% mastery criteria. Their studies suggest that higher performance criteria may produce stronger maintenance outcomes under some conditions, but they emphasize that practitioners should resist the temptation to adopt a new universal rule.

Along the way, we explore:

• The distinction between mastery criteria and performance criteria.
• Why "80% correct" became so common in ABA.
• Historical influences from early behavior analytic and educational research.
• Research comparing 50%, 80%, and 90% mastery criteria.
• The relationship between mastery criteria and long-term maintenance.
• Why some behaviors may require near-perfect performance.
• The importance of considering the natural environment when setting performance standards.
• How units of analysis can affect instructional decision making.
• The risks of relying on aggregated data when teaching multiple skills.
• Generalization, maintenance, and supplementary variables.
• Lessons from Precision Teaching regarding fluency and functional mastery.
• Why performance criteria should be individualized rather than universally prescribed.
• Research opportunities for practitioners and graduate students interested in instructional design.

Throughout the discussion, Sarah and Dan make a compelling case for moving beyond inherited rules and toward a more individualized, evidence-based approach to instructional decision making.

Whether you're designing skill acquisition programs, supervising trainees, or simply curious about the assumptions that shape everyday practice, this episode offers a thoughtful examination of one of the most common—and least questioned—features of behavior analytic instruction.

About the Guests Dr. Sarah Richling

Sarah Richling is a Clinical Associate Professor at Auburn University and serves as Director of Auburn's Master's Program in Applied Behavior Analysis. She has more than two decades of experience as a practitioner, researcher, and educator, with interests spanning instructional design, performance criteria, and effective teaching practices.

Dr. Daniel Fienup

Dan Fienup is a behavior analyst and researcher whose work has focused on instructional variables that affect skill acquisition, maintenance, and educational outcomes. His research on mastery criteria has helped clarify the relationship between performance standards and long-term retention of learned skills.

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

• Fienup and Carr (2021). The use of performance criteria for determining "mastery" in discrete-trial instruction: A call for research.
• Fuller and Fienup (2018). A Preliminary Analysis of Mastery Criterion Level: Effects on Response Maintenance.
• Richling, Fienup, and Wong (2023). Establishing Performance Criteria for Skill Mastery.
• VanDevander, Warner, Kazemi, and Famie (2023). Creating a reference range of common problem behaviors and replacement behaviors in neurotypical children.
• Vladescu, Gureghian, Goodwyn, and Campanaro (2020). Comparing skill acquisition under different stimulus set sizes with children with autism spectrum disorder: A replication.
• Conditioning Books as Reinforcers: How to Increase Reading Engagement in Young Children: Inside JABA 26.

Sponsor Shoutouts!

• Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
• Safety-Care is a crisis prevention and de-escalation training program designed for professionals who support individuals with challenging behavior. More than 300,000 professionals have been trained in Safety-Care's evidence-based approach to recognizing early warning signs and responding with confidence. To learn more, visit QBS.com/podcast.
• Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.
• The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!

In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Jenny Demark, Conrad Leung, and Dr. Linda Reinstein to talk about their new book, Complex Kids, Simple Solutions: How to Raise Resilient, Confident, Likable Kids.

These are clinicians who've spent years working directly with families dealing with everything from emotion regulation challenges, to childhood anxiety, to severe behavioral challenges, and what I liked about this conversation is that it stayed extremely practical throughout.

We spent a lot of time talking about their "Prepare, Teach, Motivate" framework, and how parents and professionals can think more systematically about helping kids build resilience and coping skills rather than just reacting to challenging behavior in the moment.

Along the way, we discussed:

• Why some children require more intentional and consistent parenting approaches than others.

• How to build stronger relationships with kids who engage in challenging behavior.

• The importance of following a child's interests to create meaningful connection.

• Screen time struggles and how to reduce device dependence without escalating conflict.

• Emotion regulation strategies for children with frequent outbursts.

• Why many young children struggle to generalize skills learned in traditional talk therapy.

• The role of parental accommodation in maintaining anxiety and avoidance.

• Practical approaches to school refusal and helping kids gradually face difficult situations.

• Why parent coaching is often more effective than focusing exclusively on the child in therapy.

• The importance of self-care for parents and practitioners alike.

I think this episode will be especially valuable for behavior analysts, school professionals, clinicians, and of course parents trying to support kids with more complex behavioral and emotional needs.

Related links and resources:

• Complex Kids, Simple Solutions: How to Raise Resilient, Confident, Likable Kids.

• Child Solutions.

• Session 266: What is Primary Care Behavioral Pediatrics?

• Session 300: Chronic Absenteeism and School Refusal.

• Session 84: The Front Lines of Parenting.

• Session 10: Pat Friman on BoysTown, Parenting, and More!

• Session 36: Practical Parent Training Approaches.

• Childhood Empowered (a must-follow parenting IG account!).

Sponsoring this episode:

• CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!
• The Behavioral Toolbox International. Check out our courses for school-based and other behavioral professionals, including our newest one, Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In.

In Session 331, I sat down with Dr. Ben Seifert to talk about some of the most challenging — and important — work happening in applied behavior analysis today: supporting individuals with severe problem behavior.

Ben shared his journey into the field, beginning with his early experiences at Lindamood-Bell and later at BACA under the mentorship of Carl Sundberg and others who helped shape his clinical perspective. Along the way, we discussed what originally drew him toward working with clients who many providers often avoid, and why he remains deeply committed to ensuring that all individuals have access to meaningful, compassionate support.

We spent a good amount of time talking about trends in the ABA marketplace, including the growing difficulty families face when trying to access services for older learners or individuals with significant behavioral challenges. Ben offered thoughtful commentary on how insurance systems, staffing pressures, and private equity may be influencing the types of services many organizations are willing to provide.

Ben also shared several fascinating clinical stories that highlight the importance of long-term relationship building, careful observation, and interdisciplinary collaboration. One particularly memorable discussion centered around learning to identify subtle behavioral indicators of physical discomfort that would have been easy to miss in a traditional assessment framework.

Toward the second half of the conversation, we shifted into supervision, staff training, and burnout prevention. Ben made a compelling point that supervisors should think of new staff members almost like new learners — people who require shaping, reinforcement, feedback, and support rather than immediate criticism when challenges arise. We also talked openly about clinician mental health, psychological safety within organizations, and the importance of creating environments where people can ask for help.

Finally, Ben shared advice for newly certified BCBAs, including the importance of collaboration, humility, and learning from the frontline staff who often know clients best.

This was a thoughtful and deeply practical conversation that I think clinicians, supervisors, and graduate students alike will get a lot out of.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Ben's path into behavior analysis
• Early mentorship experiences at BACA
• His early career experiences at the Central Texas Autism Center
• What led him to found Collaborate ABA
• Why severe problem behavior services are becoming harder to access
• Insurance and marketplace pressures affecting clinical care
• The importance of interdisciplinary collaboration
• Clinical case examples involving subtle behavioral indicators
• Long-term relationship building with clients and families
• Supervision strategies for supporting RBTs and frontline staff
• Staff burnout and mental health
• Advice for newly certified BCBAs

Reach out to Ben on LinkedIn, or follow Collaborate ABA in Instagram!

Sponsor shoutouts!

• Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
• The 2026 Behavior Supports in Schools Conference. This conference is designed for the educators, administrators, and staff who support students' behavioral health, social-emotional needs, and behavioral challenges. Both in-person and online attendees will have the opportunity to network with colleagues and learn innovative, evidence-based approaches to supporting children in school settings. It's taking place in Tumwater, WA and virtually via BehaviorLive on 5/29/26. I have the honor of presenting the keynote address, and there are many other great topics that will be discussed throughout the day, so I hope to see you there!
• CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.
• The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!

In this episode, I'm joined by Drs. Brandon May and Maggie Pavone, and Kate Heersink to talk about how we can better support healthier lifestyles for individuals with developmental disabilities.

We start by digging into how each of them came to this work. Maggie shares some early experiences working as a direct support professional, where she began to notice patterns between food-related variables and challenging behavior. Brandon talks about coming into behavior analysis through the health and fitness world, and seeing firsthand how difficult it was to support individuals in building healthier routines without a clear behavioral framework. Kate adds her perspective from working with individuals with brain injury, where the connection between physical health and overall functioning is hard to ignore.

We also spend some time acknowledging that this isn't entirely new territory. There's a solid body of work—both within and outside of behavior analysis—focused on physical activity and health for individuals with disabilities. At the same time, there's still a gap when it comes to practical, easy-to-implement tools that can be used by the people doing the day-to-day work.

From there, we get into the early development of the Fit 4 All program and how it's currently being implemented in a day program setting for adults with developmental disabilities. Kate walks through what a typical session looks like, including:

• Starting the day by ensuring wearable tech (e.g., a Fitbit) is in place
• Using a token system tied to individualized goals (hydration, movement, functional fitness, and nutrition skills)
• Embedding physical activity throughout the day (walking, fitness videos, etc.)
• Teaching basic nutrition concepts using structured learning trials
• Incorporating functional skills like cooking where appropriate

One of the things I appreciated about this approach is how integrated it is. Rather than treating exercise or nutrition as separate, isolated targets, they're woven into the flow of the day and supported through clear contingencies and reinforcement systems.

We also talk about the importance of working within real-world environments. This isn't about creating tightly controlled, clinic-based interventions—it's about meeting people where they are and building systems that can be implemented by direct support staff, teachers, and caregivers in the settings where individuals actually live and spend their time.

This is very much a "boots on the ground" application of behavior analysis—figuring out how to increase things like step count, heart rate, and water consumption in ways that are practical, sustainable, and individualized. And like a lot of good ABA work, it involves ongoing problem-solving—adjusting activities, testing different approaches, and using data to guide decisions.

If you're a BCBA, or someone working directly with individuals with developmental disabilities, this conversation is a good reminder that health and wellness is an area where our science has a lot to offer—and probably more room to grow.

🔑 Key Takeaways

• Health behaviors (movement, nutrition, hydration) are behavior—and can be addressed using behavior-analytic principles
• Many professionals feel underprepared to support these areas without a structured framework
• Embedding interventions into natural environments (e.g., day programs) increases feasibility and sustainability
• Simple systems (token boards, wearable data, clear goals) can support meaningful behavior change
• Effective programming in this area requires flexibility, creativity, and ongoing data-based decision making

🧩 Why This Matters

Individuals with developmental disabilities are often at higher risk for health-related issues tied to sedentary behavior and diet. At the same time, these are areas that don't always receive systematic attention in programming.

This is one place where behavior analysis can have a meaningful impact on long-term quality of life.

📚 Resources Mentioned

• Prior episode with Brandon (Session 127: What is Behavioral Sports Psychology?)
• Researchers mentioned:
  • James Rimmer
  • Ray Miltenberger
  • Matt Normand
  • Tim Hackenberg
• DeLuca and Holburn (1992). Effects of a variable-ratio reinforcement schedule with changing criteria on exercise in obese and nonobese boys

Sponsors

• CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.
• The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!
• The Whoop Strap. If you want to take control of your health and fitness, start by getting the data you need with the Whoop Strap. And by using this link, you'll get your first month free!