In Episode 61 of The Road to Wisdom Podcast Chloe and Keshia welcome back Rhea Dempsey for another conversation to explore the psychological barriers and constraints that women face during pregnancy and childbirth which are main themes in her latest book "Beyond The Birth Plan". We highlight the importance of addressing these issues and the impact they can have on birth outcomes. This episode covers topics such as the role of midwives and doulas, the integration of counseling and psychology in birth work, and the need to address past trauma. The conversation also delves into the concept of Pandora's Box and the significance of understanding one's own birth and early experiences. Overall, the conversation emphasizes the need for a holistic approach to childbirth that considers both the physical and psychological aspects. In this conversation, Rhea discusses the concept of wild cards in birth and the impact of attachment styles on the birthing experience. She highlights the importance of creating a safe space for discussing wild cards, particularly those related to sexual abuse. Rhea explains the different attachment styles, including secure attachment, anxious attachment, avoidant attachment, and disorganized attachment. She emphasizes the need for a secure base for exploration in birth and the role of partners in providing support. Overall, this conversation explores the complex dynamics of birth and the significance of attachment in shaping the birthing experience.