It’s Dental A-Team’s last book club episode of 2024!

December’s book is Deep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World by Cal Newport. Kiera dives deep (heh) into what it means to work with such intensity in a world overrun with distractions, including layers of cognitive focus, an increase in the ability to master topics, the power of routine and ritual, and more.

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:01.124)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and welcome to the book club. This is the last book club of 2024. Can you believe it? We are to the last book club of the year. And just as a fun little book club, let's do a year in review of all the book clubs that we've done together this year. So in case you didn't read these books or you need a book or you need to remember the book clubs we did, January, we did the Go Giver. February, we did Crucial Conversations. March, the Noticer.

 

April, buy back your time. May, high output management. June, come up for air. July, you can heal your life. August, your next five moves. September, die with zero. October, the power of fun. November, who, how. And December, deep work. This is our last one. And like talk about a really fun year that you guys have actually gone through of all these different books. And I hope you've enjoyed them. I hope you've read them. I hope you've enjoyed the book club. I'm excited to...

 

like, you know, we're doing in 2026, it's still TBD or excuse me, 2025 still TBD. But talk about how many incredible books that you guys have read this year. and just think like that's so much wisdom brought into your life. And I hope you're implementing these ideas. Like I think back to, as we look back, the go-giver remembering to do those simple acts of kindness for people and to notice and to give more value than people expect. Crucial conversations, saying what needs to be said, not like dodging and beating around the book.

 

or the Bush. Wow. the noticer just noticing people. remember the, the, was either the beach. He was sitting on a beach and eating seafood and was like, I'm on this crummy beach eating this like day old food. And the noticer said like, I am eating surf and turf with a view and just looking at things differently. thought was it such a cool perspective, April, buy back your time. You guys know, I'm obsessed with this. What's your dollar per hour? how can we buy back more of our time and do more of what we absolutely love?

 

High output management, figuring out how we can actually maximize and be high output consistently within our management team. Really lovely book. Come Up for Air. You guys know I love this one. This was like leveraging systems and teams. I made my leadership team. I didn't make, I had our leadership team read this book. There was so much goodness with Come Up for Air that I loved. Systems and tools, we've implemented so many of the things from that book. Definitely is gonna be on my consistent books to read here over here.

 

Kiera Dent (02:23.552)

The next one, you can heal your life. This one was such a unique one of diving deep into our own personal lives and how can we heal ourselves and heal from the past and letting go of things that are holding us back. Your next five moves, looking at the business strategy and thinking of what do we need to do next and what are the next five moves in our business. Really incredible. Die with zero. I loved Die with Zero. Another book where you literally like live life now.

 

And it's such a controversial book compared to Profit First. I love the controversy. I love thinking of it, but really die with zero and how can we have more fun in life? The power of fun. you know, remember how to feel alive again and the different areas of how we can make fun and play more a part of our daily life. Who, not how. It's going back to buy back your time. Thinking of who can do this, not how can we do this? Who can we leverage? Consultants, team members.

 

Delegating collaborating all those different pieces and now today deep work This book to me is such an incredible Like I love it. I love it so much It was recommended to me by a doctor that I'm obsessed with and their team and he's just someone this doctor I feel is able to get so much done and I was like, what do you do? And he said deep work is one of my biggest things and he goes and hides in the library and he Will consistently like this doctor is someone that I feel is such a high

 

output constantly and just keeps doing it. like his secrets are he's great with time management. He has none of the apps on his phone. So there's no Slack, there's no text messages or excuse me, there's no emails. It's literally just used as a phone. And then he has, he blocks his time. He's very disciplined. He's disciplined with his spiritual life. He's disciplined with his kids life. He's disciplined with his physical life. He's disciplined with his work life. And I'm just so impressed by who he is. And he said deep work was one of his pieces.

 

So getting into deep work, are four rules. number one is work deeply. Number two is embrace the boredom. Three is quit social media and four is drain the shallows. And what I loved about this book is he really talks about like he, this guy, he was like in his room and he realized when he like locked himself in this room, he was able to like exponentially grow in his career and like what he was learning and realized.

 

Kiera Dent (04:41.464)

that the reason we don't grow as much as we could is because we're constantly distracted. so within Deep Work, it talks about, we blocking time? And you can call this CEO time, you can call this Deep Work time, but like, we blocking time, distraction free, to work on the biggest projects of our organization? And so Deep Work, like I said, you will see in every one of my calendars, blocking out two to four hours per week is what I recommend for doctors. And I'm really big on blocking it during your production time. So that way you actually...

 

are super focused and super intentional with no distractions. That does not mean you have to be in the office. I actually sometimes recommend not being in the office so you're not distracted, but it's really awesome. There's actually some really cool apps that you can do that lock everything. So when I go into deep work time, you can literally lock everything. So no email, you could set up the apps or the browsers that you're allowed to do. And then literally your whole computer locks out of everything else. So when we get bored, we want to go scroll social media. You can't do that.

 

And that's where it's like the embracing the boredom that I thought was so critical and so incredible is we embrace the boredom. We embrace these different things because when you embrace the boredom, you push through versus being distracted and wasting away our time. so during it, like literally you want to go check your email and it's shocking because you'll see how often you check your email, check your social media, do all these different things. But the answer is like, we're here to have deep work with no distractions and we're training ourselves.

 

to become so effective with our time when we're working on these projects that we actually move the needle forward exponentially. And I love this. I love this so much because we are in such a distracted society that we don't get deep work done. So many dentists are like, Kiera, like, I just can't get this done. I'm like, block the deep work, block the CEO time, office manager, same thing. Like this is, and it's not for us to do the little tasks, like the payroll that we know is going to get done or to check. It's like, no, we need to make a operations manual. We need to get that done.

 

We need to build out new job descriptions and tiers for our employees to move up from one position to the next. We need to go and figure out like it could be CE. For me, a lot of times it's like projections for the next year. It's looking at my PNLs. It's building out for us. Like I've been working, my deep work time has been so focused on building out content for next year's in-person events for our doctors that I hope that you're coming to. If you have not, please sign up. Prices do go up in January. We have promoted the prices through end of year for you guys.

 

Kiera Dent (07:04.42)

giving you, want people to have this be a no brainer. So you actually save exponentially thousands and it is a complete tax write off. You get to come be with us in person. You get to network with peers, but we're going to do, like I said, a strip down from top to bottom of your business. And you're going to have a plan every quarter of what to do plus one-on-one calls with the consultant. And you also get us to help with team implementation. So we're working with the doctor and the team. It's doctors and OMS in person. This has been my deep work. This is what I'm working on every single week. This is what's pushing the needle forward. This is how

 

as a CEO who's busy, I pushed the most important things forward. And it's crazy because this is, one of my favorite quotes from Jaco Willings is discipline equals freedom. And so having the discipline to do this deep work that Cal Newport talks about in there is just so incredible to me. because really we've got to be digging in, we've got to be working on the pieces that move us forward. We have to be able to focus without the distractions on these tasks. And so like,

 

It literally allows you to focus and to work without distractions. And they talk about in their like shallow work versus deep work and shallow work is non-cognitively demanding logistical style work often performed while distracted. So think about like how often we submitted payroll while distracted, how often we've answered emails while distracted. We've been slacking like in our company, I make it to where we're in meetings. We have no new standard that...

 

We are present and that means Slack is closed, phones are shut off, all of our emails are closed and we are present here because it's so easy to be distracted. Whereas Deep Work is like a superpower in our increasingly competitive 21st century economy. And so really it's like, in order to produce our absolute best stuff, we have to commit to Deep Work. This is where we have the creative spaces, this is where we have the very Deep Work. Like this doctor I was telling you about who recommended this to me, they have...

 

Six practices they have grown their practices exponentially their practices are producing Multi-millions they have a leadership team the doctors been able to remove themselves from the practice and it's because I believe this doctor has been working on deep work for years Also in deep work It's the ability to quickly master hard things and the ability to produce at an elite level for quality and speed two core abilities for thriving in today's economy because when we When we teach ourselves not to be distracted when we teach ourselves that we're here to work

 

Kiera Dent (09:22.99)

There's no distractions. Like it's literally incredible. If you guys didn't listen to my podcast with John Jackson from Defy Ventures, who was a prisoner. I hope you guys listened to that. He is someone who has inspired me in 2024, like top people that I've met this year. And I remember him saying like when he was in prison, there was nothing there for him to do other than learn. He was sitting in cinder block walls. There were no distractions he could have.

 

And he learned and he learned a lot. He learned how to run businesses. He taught himself that and that's why they do this for prisoners, but like, let's not be in prison to teach ourselves how to work without distraction. and in the book, one of the quotes is to learn hard things quickly. must focus intensely without distraction. So if you don't know how to do your numbers, well, are you spending the deep work time to learn how to read a PNL to learn how to do cashflow to learn and listen to different podcasts or books or have a coach or a mentor with you doing this with you.

 

But really it's there. And then they said, your work is craft. And if you hone your ability and apply it with respect and care, then like the skilled will write, you can generate meaning in the daily efforts of your professional life. So, and then I love, say the key to developing a deep work habit is to move beyond good intention and add routines and rituals to your working life designed to minimize the amount of your limited willpower. Nessa Nessa. Wow. Necessary to transition into and maintain a state of unbroken concentration.

 

And when you can master deep work, and I'm not going to say that I'm the best at it. I'm not here to tell you like, I'm incredible. I'm here to say like, I have learned a lot of this. have taken this on and it's true. Like we are so distracted. It's so easy to be distracted. There's even a company called The Brick. And what you do is you can literally brick your phone where like you can tap it and your whole phone shuts off. And it's just a phone like that you can call with. That's the only thing you can do with it. But just think of how much more in life you can achieve, how much more in life you can.

 

accomplish, how much further your business could grow, how much more you could invest in your relationships if we weren't distracted. And that's not to say there's not a place in time for social media and different things. Like, of course there is, but let's do that intentionally, not distractedly. Let's do that because we choose to, not because it's a habit that we haven't been able to break. Let's work on the big frogs of our business, right? They talk about eat the frog first in the morning, the thing you don't want to do. To me, that's the deep work. Like so much of what I put on deep work, I literally dread.

 

Kiera Dent (11:46.264)

But now with the use of chat GPT and other things, like you can actually move things in deep work so much faster than we've ever been able to do. And so really maximizing this. So like I allow it to be open, but like it's wild. When I lock everything out, I feel annoyed actually. I'm like, but I also am shocked at how fast my mind gets distracted. so to be able, it's like meditation, to be able to help ourselves be so like to me, deep work.

 

and meditation are training our minds rather than being like, I don't know, it's not manipulated, but guided by a wandering mind. Like I wanna focus and be intentional with my thoughts and with my life. And I'm creating it rather than being managed by it. And I think that that's deep work does is that to me, deep work is exercise for the mind. Meditation is exercise for the mind. It is being able to be this like pristine top performer.

 

for two to four hours a week and to get the big projects done. And just, want you to think about, let's just think about a practice, a doctor and an office manager who do deep work. I guarantee you like bonuses for your hygiene. So hygiene production and bonuses could get done. Operations manuals could get done. Protocols and reviews of the company could get done. The financial piece could get learned in one year's time doing deep work. It probably would be less than that. You could really go through and write protocols and...

 

have better onboarding systems. Think about an associate onboarding process. Think about being able to figure out a billing system and process. I mean, yes, of course you can hire us and we have most of that already for you, but just think of all the things you can move forward. Think of the new ideas you could create. Think of the ability to onboard an associate doctor better. Think of the ability to go and look through all of your exams that you did and figure out where did I not do as strong and how can I refine my presentation style.

 

Think about being able to go and observe your practice and see it in this zone. Like all these projects, think of everything that's big on your list. To be able to set aside two hours a week is just like mind boggling. And then to think if we're doing this consistently, how much more will you actually be able to get done? How much more time will you be able to have? Because you're gonna like check off your checklist pretty quickly and then you're gonna start to go into like new lessons. Like think if you spent two hours a week on chat GPT.

 

Kiera Dent (14:06.378)

learning it and how to use AI better in your practice. How much further ahead would that send you? This is the type of deep work and learning new skills and learning new insights that I think could be absolutely masterful for you. So I loved this book. I love helping offices set this into their schedules. I love helping office managers realize the practice will not burn down with you being gone for two hours. I love doctors realizing this is your CEO time. This is where you review your P &Ls. This is where you look at the numbers of your business. This is where you do your projections for the next year. This is where you do all the different pieces.

 

is during this deep work time, undistracted, very focused. So I hope you read it and I hope you love it. And I hope that you had a really fun year advancing yourself with professional development of reading these books and expanding your minds and expanding what you believe is possible and turning the impossible into possible. And I really hope that you've just realized how much you've invested in yourself and how beautiful it is to keep

 

growing and creating and evolving. Life is a journey. These things take time. Mastery is not done overnight. And so I just implore you as you go into 2025 that you truly, truly, truly set aside deep work time. Commit right now that you're going to do it you're going to see how much your practice will flourish. And I promise you will be life changing for you.

 

I hope that you choose to join us in person in 2025. I hope that you choose to not to keep thinking about consulting, but to execute on it. I hope that you decide to invest in yourself and your team this next year and that you just truly have the best year of your life. I will be getting you guys books to read and I just hope that you know your life is yours to create, not to manage. So let's start creating it through our deep work time. And I hope you guys loved it. I loved reading this, if you can't tell.

 

And as always, for all of you listening, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

Tiff and Dana are here to gameplan your goals for 2025 by starting big and breaking it into smaller and more attainable pieces. They discuss aspects to consider, such as profitability, time management, tracking systems, and more.

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:01.106)

Hello, Dental A Team team listeners. We are back here today. I've got Ms. Dana with me and we are here to talk to you about numbers today. I'm excited for this one. Practice owners, doctors, dentists, all of you guys out there, this is a really important one and Dana and I have some awesome information to really hand out to you. But before we dive in, Dana, how are you doing over there? How are you?

 

We're wrapping up the end of the year. I know I've seen a ton of successes in so many of our clients. How are your clients doing? What are you working on right now with your clients?

 

Dana (00:34.404)

Yeah, it's great. 2024, I think was an interesting year for a lot of practices. I think different than some of the more recent years. But I think in all of that, practices are still coming out with huge wins, lots of growth, and getting patients to accept treatments. So I call that a win for 2024 for sure.

 

The Dental A Team (00:52.836)

Yeah, I agree. think there was a lot of... gosh.

 

unknown uncertainties in 2024. I think 2020 we had some uncertainties too, right? We walked into the year with uncertainties, but then it kind of grew from there. And we've had just this massive growth in dentistry, I think since 2020 and COVID shutdowns. And this year, was kind of like, wait, hang on dentistry still doing fine. we're in a, we're in a recession proof industry, but what the heck is going on? And so there were just so many questions I think in outside of

 

of dentistry and financially that it did lead to some oddities that we haven't seen in recent years, like you said, within the dental world. know a lot of my practices have been, I think they're coming out of it now, but we had some issues with confirmations or patients coming to appointments or pre-collecting, kind of making sure that those pieces were really dialed in and locked in, because I did feel as though here in the recent months, kind of September, October.

 

some August really was tough for some practices in case acceptance, but then November hit got a couple weeks into November, how we'll say it and things just started to really turn around again. And I think again, there's so many uncertainties of the world translated into uncertainties within the dental industry and and Dana, I think you saw that too. Yeah.

 

Dana (01:55.438)

Thank

 

Dana (02:15.363)

Yeah.

 

The Dental A Team (02:16.56)

Yeah, well guys, we're on the other side of that. So this is the exciting part and this is one of my favorite times of year. I'm really looking forward to what's to come and we have to look at what was right to know what can be in many cases, but this is the time of year where we really get to dream up what next year will look like and what it can look like and it's just so much fun for me.

 

I love building out goals with practices. I love seeing what it's going to take to get you to that goal and really working backwards. So dream big and then work backwards and make it smaller and smaller and smaller. So today, I wanted to chat about that and Dana pulled in to help me just really discuss how we go about increasing goals every year. And we do this with all of our clients. We look at what does an increase look like for next year? What is it going to create for you? So a lot of our clients will say, you know,

 

I want to have more time at home with my family. We're having a baby this year. We want to take a maternity leave. I want to take a vacation to Europe for two weeks. I had a doctor that took her family to Paris this year. Like, how are we building that into the goals? And realistically, how are we making your business work for you so that you can have the personal life that you want? And so your team members can as well.

 

But really what does the business have to do to afford you those pieces of life that are really, really valuable and important to you? One of those things that we look at is your profitability. And your profitability is key, you guys. That is the extra money on top, that's the kush, that's the, this is really what my business is able to create for me within that. So we do look at that when we build out your goals, but just on average, we wanted you to know what an increase, an annual increase looks like.

 

her practice majority of the time a practice that's already been working off of their BAM. So their bare ACE minimum, right? Your, this is what it takes to pay my bills. This is what it takes to survive plus a percentage to get that profitability. So we typically look at, I Dana and I talked about this this morning, we're usually looking at what's your BAM. So what's your baseline? This is my baseline, just like at home, like this is what it takes to

 

The Dental A Team (04:35.57)

feed my family and to pay my bills. This is the baseline money that's going out and then 20 % on top of that. So baseline plus 20 % creates a profitable business. If we're only looking at baseline, you guys, I don't know, I felt Dana like in that conversation this morning that it was a confusing space maybe for people that...

 

That's one of those spots I think where we talk dental. People are like, what are you talking about? All right. Our marketer this morning was like, what's a bloody profie? And I was like, that's funny. So it's one of those spaces that's like, what are you talking about? But Dana, I you do this with your clients to have really that baseline plus that 20%. So Dana, how do you go through that with your clients and really helping them to figure out one what their baseline is, and then what that 20 % is on top?

 

Dana (05:00.716)

No.

 

Dana (05:25.09)

Yeah. So really it is, it starts with their overhead. So what is their overall practice expenses? Okay. So that's going to be part of their bare ACE minimum. And then what are they taking home? Right. Also to any debt services, because we've got a pair of debt services to be to utilize them, whether it's a practice loan or equipment loan or whatever it is, as far as debt services, we've got to put that in your BAM. Cause at the end of the day, those things have to be paid or business will be shut down.

 

The Dental A Team (05:34.546)

Yeah.

 

Dana (05:53.052)

Failure to pay those things too So just making sure that you know all of those pieces that go into it and all of that is accounted for because oftentimes actors like well No, I don't put my pay in there. Well, right? You're not being able to live your life and you're not being able to afford like you have to be paid too That's why you are a practice owner. That's why you chose ownership, right? So we want to make sure that is included in there. So Let's just say we know you know, they're they're

 

The Dental A Team (06:05.446)

Yeah, yeah.

 

The Dental A Team (06:15.538)

Yeah.

 

Dana (06:22.148)

BAM is 100,000, because I like round numbers. So 100,000, we would obviously say then, okay, for that 20 % profitability, we need an extra 20,000 each month. So your goal then for that month becomes 120,000. And as long as we hit 120,000 each and every month, that will give you your BAM every month, plus your 20%.

 

The Dental A Team (06:25.735)

Yeah, same.

 

The Dental A Team (06:37.339)

Mm-hmm.

 

The Dental A Team (06:43.302)

Yep, I love that. I think the confusion or to separate statements is we've talked about when we talk about all the time your overhead and Dana, you just mentioned your overhead, right? So we do say your your true overhead.

 

is if someone if someone were to purchase your practice from you today, what would they respond be responsible for taking on your pay your loans and come with you right you they they're not going to continue paying you. So what would a practice owner take from you if they were to purchase your practice is your true overhead. So in order to find your band, you find your true overhead, this is your outgoing money. And then you add in your loans, your debts and your pay.

 

And if your associate pay or whatever else is not included in your true overhead for you, you add that in underneath. This is what you have to make in order to maintain your business as it is. So if you were looking at your personal finances, you would say, great, what are my credit card payments? What's my mortgage payment? What's my car payment? Those go into your baseline for what you need to make as an individual within your home. So you're to think the same thing. What does my practice need to make to baseline to say,

 

We are at a zero zero, right? We are zero zero. We are not negative, but we are not positive. This is what my business has to make. And then we add, like Dana said, that 20 % on top of it. So that's the difference, you guys, when we talk overhead versus bam, is overhead is different. Your bam is going to be everything included. So I think that's where some of that confusion may come in.

 

Now that 20 % can be bucketed out however you want it to be. So that 20 % could be bonuses. I do have a practice that's like, Tip, want, this is our BAM, but I want my practice to bonus every month. I'm like, great, then let's add a percentage after your BAM.

 

The Dental A Team (08:34.276)

a certain percentage of that will be their bonus. So they know if they get to this tier, this tier, this tier, but for that practice specifically, you guys and for most of my practices that talk about this, I want you to know I don't go bam plus 10 % and then they get you know, they get that bonus at that 10%. No, I still want bam plus some now it's above above and beyond that. So it has to be above and beyond your profit. Otherwise, now you're bonusing and taking out of your profit for the practice and the

 

for the practice should be going towards renovations, should be going towards new equipment, it should be going towards whatever you want it to be, an emergency fund, like all these things to be reinvested back into the practice, not taking, we're not taking money out to pay people. That's an above and beyond situation. So just clarifying that a little bit for you guys, going into a new year, once you have that settled, you're like this year Tiff, I went off my ban plus my profit, that was my goal.

 

Fantastic. So then next year, going into 2025 goals, we really want those goals to be, I like 10%. I usually say seven to 10 % on top of what you did last year. Super easy math, number one. Number two, inflation has to be accounted for. Inflation on average in America right now is near 7%, right, at least. So

 

If we go above and beyond that 7 % and hit that 10%, again, we're looking for that profit margin. Because if we're only accounting for 7 % inflation, again, we're just status quo. We're not growing. In order to see that growth, we've got to go above and beyond. So that 10 % creates that above and beyond. And again, that's if you've been operating off of BAM Plus profitability. If you haven't, then let's work the numbers and figure out where you should be and what you're able to do next year.

 

but that 10 % should be able to be finagled within that. And creating that space is really fun. Figuring out how am going to get 10 %? A lot of doctors' teams usually will be like, that sounds awesome, but like, my schedule is full. Where in the heck do you want me to get? So we're adding 10 % every day. So we're adding 10 % of time every day to have like, how are you doing this? I'm like, no, it doesn't have to be that

 

The Dental A Team (10:57.736)

hard. This is where we make sure you're pulling your financial analytics. Like where are you at for your fees, your fee analysis? Have you had a rep pull your fee analysis? Have you requested fee increases from all the insurances? Have you looked at insurances that you could drop? How do we squeeze more out of the time that you have? Dana, I know a lot of clients come in and they're like, I want to reduce stays, but I want to be more profitable.

 

Fine, absolutely, you guys, can create the magic for whatever you want. If it's unrealistic and we're like, that's a little crazy, we will tell you that too. But oftentimes coming in from, you're working five days or four days and you're like, I really want a half day admin day.

 

Great, we're going to squeeze more dollars out of the time that you have. So Dana, I know you've been working on this a lot with a lot of your clients this year specifically and block scheduling, things like that definitely contribute. But what are some pieces that you've got a lot of clients currently working on for next year to squeeze more out of that time that they have?

 

Dana (12:03.5)

Yeah, so one, is taking a look at just each provider in the practice, their production per hour. Because if we're looking to cut hours, then we know exactly how much production we need to make up in different hours of the day. Also, two, helps us see just is there any provider that like, okay, they've got a little bit more opportunity. So we can kind of let's say we look at hygiene, right? And they're not hygiene across the board isn't hitting their daily goal or their hourly goal. Then what can we do there? Can we talk about a

 

The Dental A Team (12:08.765)

Yeah.

 

Dana (12:32.452)

upgrading our perio protocol, can we talk about adding adjunct services? What can we talk about on that end? On the other side, when it comes to providers, can we look at just efficiency? Are we maximizing and utilizing our assistance so that there is more actual doctor time to do additional dentistry? Another thing that I'm working on as far as building that in and helping to see goals is just cost of procedure versus

 

The Dental A Team (12:58.408)

Mm.

 

Dana (12:59.576)

time it takes to do the procedure. So a cost per procedure is I'm doing that with a couple of offices just because it does help us see. Okay, if

 

this doctor does this procedure in 70 minutes and this doctor's doing it in 90, like what does that look like as far as then their production per hour and where can we squeeze and those things. So I think it starts by knowing really what you're producing each hour, especially if you want to cut back hours. And then as we're looking at that, who has potential for growth or where do we have potential for growth? And then how do we get there? What does that look like?

 

The Dental A Team (13:30.632)

Yeah, I like the breaking it down by cost per procedure and hourly. That's something I think that we forget we can do and that really makes such a drastic difference. The perio space, the hygiene space is huge. You guys, I have a client this year that we were just looking at their KPIs this morning, Dana and I, and they had a goal of increasing one to 2 % on their perio.

 

program, right? So hygiene was going to go from 18 to 19 percent and on average is where they were in 2023. This year they needed to hit at least 20 percent overall production, which means the hygiene department as a whole contributes 20 percent of the monthly and yearly production.

 

So we looked at it this morning and luckily the office manager had filled out November and so for November they're actually tracking at 25 % for their hygiene department which is great. I usually push for goal wise so you guys know for goal sake 25 to 30 percent.

 

Dana (14:23.844)

Thank

 

The Dental A Team (14:36.38)

for hygiene to be making up of that goal. So when you're going into next year's goal, and you're like, gosh, 10 % means I'm going to be at $2.1 million next year. Freaking fantastic, do it. So look at, okay, well, what did my hygiene team do? On average, what was their percentage now with us not looking at it? And think, okay, what would one to 2 %? What would a 2 % increase from last year look like financially? It's over a year, it's usually pretty significant what a 2 % increase can do.

 

And then how can we get a 2 % increase? Normally when practices are not tracking their hygiene department, they're typically sitting anywhere from like 14, 15 to maybe 20 % on average. I would say probably like that 17 % range is pretty common.

 

for practices that haven't been really looking at it and caring. So then you have a space of like fantastic, what's a 1 % increase in everything that we do? It could be making sure we're always charging out for the PAs. That's a 1 % increase. Like really looking at all of the coding and making sure we're getting every single code in there every single time, because those things add up over time. But when you're parsing it out, sometimes I think doctors feel like, gosh, $2.1 million. That's a lot of

 

implants, that's a lot of crowns, like, you are not the only one that's providing that. And so really looking at what are the other contributing factors? How can we add more value? How can we add more whitening this year? So in-office whitening that our assistants are doing, what would it look like if we did three more Invisalign cases this year in comparison to last year? What would it look like? How many, you know, how many of each thing do I want to do?

 

Oftentimes I'll take a practice and say, do you want to do more of next year that you love doing this year? And I know I had a doctor that was like, gosh, Tiff, I love placing implants. just, I want to do more implants. Great.

 

The Dental A Team (16:31.144)

So we went into 2023 with a goal of X amount of implants this year. And so then the goal from there, we backtracked and we're like, okay, great, every month you have to do this amount of implants every month to get to this yearly goal, which would allot for X amount of dollars towards your yearly goal. So then we translated that into well, how many opportunities do I need based on my case acceptance? So then we said, well, you've got to talk to X amount of people about missing teeth

 

and the implant option to get your 65 % case acceptance on it to get to that. And within the first quarter of the year, he had surpassed his quarterly goal and was well into his six month goal for the year. But it was because we had worked backwards and made it so simple, it was really easy for everyone to track. From there,

 

the team was like, well, how do we keep track of all these? Like we're talking, they're like, I have ideas. And now the team is creating tracking systems and using the whiteboard and they're following up with the patients because they can see it. And it's so easy. So that 10 % increase from last year can feel a little daunting sometimes. And I've had practices, Dana, that I'm like, to get you on track to where you actually want to be. And because we weren't working off of a BAM plus 20 %

 

previously, you actually need a 15 % increase this year to get you to where you should be. And still though, as long as you can increase it by how much ever you want to, and as long as there's a plan in place and we can work backwards to see how we can actually accomplish it, I think that's where the success really lies. And I've watched it time and time again of how easy it can be to just say,

 

How many implants do we have to do? How many Invisalign cases do we have to start? How many, you know, all-on-fours do I need to do? And you guys, holy Hannah, if you don't like surgery, you don't want to do all-on-fours, don't do it. It is not a space where it's easy money. It is not lucrative if you do not like doing it, so don't do it.

 

The Dental A Team (18:43.334)

Pick the things that you enjoy doing. Is Botox something you want to do next year? Fillers, like what does this look like? Cosmetic cases, like what do you love doing? And how do we translate that into part of that percentage goal for next year? Dana, what other thoughts do you have on that goal and just really making sure that it's set in stone?

 

Dana (19:05.349)

I love that you do that and I think too if you're like, well, I don't really know even okay I know 2.1 right but what does that look like every day or what does that look like every month? Map out your projections put in your number of working days put in

 

your number of hygiene days for each month, your number of doctor days each month, and then play around with your numbers. Say, okay, well, I did, let's say $3,000 a day this year, and I'm trying to grow 10%. Okay, well, that looks like 3,300. So put in 3,300 and see, does that get me to my 2.1 million? If it doesn't, okay, let's increase that. Let's say 3,500, put that in and see, okay, does that get me there? Okay, that gets me partway. Now, what can I do with hygiene? Right? If hygiene hit, let's say 960 this year, if I get them to a thousand, if I can just get $40 additional every hygiene day, what does that look like?

 

So take your working days take where you were for the last year look and say okay average This is what we produce each day. What does it take each day? Because once you know what it takes each day Each week each month then you can do exactly what you did tip and say, okay How do we do that? Because oftentimes if we don't know what that looks like if we don't know that that's the difference in a crown every other day

 

The Dental A Team (20:03.058)

Yeah.

 

Dana (20:11.0)

Right? Once you have it broken down into daily and weekly and monthly numbers, then it's very easy to say, okay, look, these simple things, if done consistently, or this addition of 10 crowns each month, that's what's gonna get us there. But you have to know kind of what those smaller numbers look like. It's real easy to say 2.1, but when you break it down into daily and monthly, it's super simple then to see where opportunity lies.

 

The Dental A Team (20:36.968)

Totally agree. And I love that you said like going from 3000 to 3300 or 3500 because even if it 3500 and I've got an eight hour day, it's like that's less than $100 an hour. In addition to what I was already doing. That's a couple PA's. That's a couple x-rays like it's, it's charging out for the things that you're doing. So I love that. Thank you, Dana. Right now you guys know it's the time of the year to see where are you going to end you should be able to project at this point in the game like what what it's going to look like at the end of the year.

 

Dana (20:51.556)

Thanks

 

The Dental A Team (21:06.918)

Start mapping out what next year can look like. Don't wait till January, because in January, you should be boots on the ground, freaking running for those goals. So start building that out now. Reach out to us, you guys. [email protected] If you have any questions on this, there was a lot of numbers involved. There's a lot of trajectory, a lot of projections. Reach out to us. We have all of this information. We love giving it out, and we love nothing more than to answer your questions. So [email protected] You can find us on all the socials as well, Dental A Team.

 

We want to hear from you. Drop us a five star review. Let us know that you loved this content and we cannot wait to support you and your biggest 2025 dreams. Let's make them all a reality. Thanks guys. Thank you, Dana, and we'll catch you guys next time.

To inspire the most effective team for your practice, Kiera shares three key attributes that need to exist among staff members:

1. Trust and vulnerability

2. Healthy debate

3. Peer-to-peer accountability

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:01.05)

Hello, Dental A Team Listeners. This is Kiera and I am so excited for today's podcast. This is something that I've been working on with tons of teams and within our organization and just a lot of different fun things for you. So I hope you guys are having an incredible day. I hope you're ready for just some magic here. I hope you're ready for some podcast magic. I hope you're ready for some life magic. And I hope you just remember we are truly so blessed because we get to work in the incredible profession of dentistry. So I hope you just remember that. And as always, thank you all for being podcast listeners.

 

Don't forget to download, like, subscribe, share this, leave the reviews to keep this dental podcast serving all of you practices for free. That's how you guys can help us out is to go and share this with someone to give us those reviews, to share it in those Facebook groups because my goal is to have this podcast in the hands of every single Dental A team listener, every single dental, we need an edit. 52.

 

My goal is to have this in the hands of every single dental practice out there and so you can help make that dream a reality. So please share it, love it, like it, leave the reviews and just know I'm giving you a high five, a hug as appreciation and thank you. So let's get going today. Today I wanted to go through, I've talked about it a couple of times before, but there is a book by Patrick Lencioni called The Five Dysfunctions of Teams and I've talked about it before. It's one of my absolute favorite books.

 

on the podcast. have not booked Club This and I honestly should book Club This, but it's a really great one. And I was introduced to this book and I was told to literally use this book in like partnerships and different things. And if we don't have the core five layers of this, we actually have dysfunctional teams. And so me and some of my offices, we've been working on it and we realized that we don't want to have dysfunctional teams. We want to have functional teams. And what's another word for functional?

 

It's a winning team. And so if you're not familiar with it, I'll give you a quick rendition. I coach this with lots of offices and I think being an outsider, that's honestly why I love being a consultant. We are having the same thing within our company because sometimes just that outsider perspective can really, really help you and your team get on board and get into those levels that you need to have it. And so with Teams, I'll just introduce you to the five dysfunctions of a team or as we call it, we flipped it around of how to have the five elements of a winning team.

 

Kiera Dent (02:20.186)

So it's in a triangle and at the bottom, it is actually with the bottom portion of the foundation of this triangle is called trust and vulnerability. And so if we have trust and vulnerability and it's not trust of like, if I delegate something to you, I know you're actually going to do it. Like that's one element of trust, but there's the other element of trust where I trust that I can say whatever needs to be said to you and know that there's not going to be backlash. There's a really great example think about in sports.

 

The quarterback is getting sacked and they go to the blocker and they say, hey, you've got a block for me. I need you to block. And the blocker is not like, the quarterback's so mad at me or the quarterback's feeling this or that because they have the conversation. But we have permission to give feedback and receive feedback. And I think really setting up your office to have those permission to play, permission to give the feedback, permission to have the conversations, permission to say what needs to be said so we can ultimately make our practice grow.

 

Now, of course, within trust and vulnerability, the way we say things and the way we present things will oftentimes make it so much better versus just saying what needs to be said. So I do believe that trust and vulnerability is an art more than it is a science. But if you can get your teams really having that trust and being able to call the shot, if you will, like in sports, because in sports, they're able to do that because they know how to win and they're willing to call each other out. They're willing to say what needs to be said because they want to win. And in Patrick Lanzione's book,

 

it really does give the formula of how we're able to win as a team. And so if we know how to quote unquote, put points on the scoreboard, and that doesn't necessarily mean revenue, it can, but if we know what winning looks like within a practice, then it's easier to have the trust and vulnerability, have the conversations. And I think the more you give your practice the permission to play, the permission to have the conversations, the easier it is. But this is a conversation that needs to be had. I go around to offices and I actually coach offices on how to do this, on how to have these

 

conversations on how to say the things because the reality is this is tricky. And in a lot of offices, this isn't real. If you speak up and you say your mind, you get fired. And so society has kind of taught us not to have this trust and vulnerability, not to say what needs to be said. And I'm here to say, why don't you have your practice be a different experience? Why don't you have your employment be a different experience? There's this whole buzzword of vulnerability and being authentic. And I think this is how we actually can create that as a real true piece within our organizations.

 

Kiera Dent (04:44.27)

So once we go up the rung of the ladder, we've got trust and vulnerability. The next layer is healthy debate. So if we have this true trust and vulnerability with each other, we're actually going to have the healthy debate. We're gonna say what needs to be said and we don't come, I really help offices and teams realize we're not coming from our own selfish vantage point. Yes, we bring our vantage point there, but we're always working towards what's in the best interest of the business. And if the business and the practice is the root of what we're doing, then guess what? The healthy debate should be not if you're right or if I'm right.

 

but it's literally what's in the best interest of the business. And I think when offices do this and have the healthy debate and we have the conversations, hygienists bring their opinions, dental assistants bring their opinions, front office brings their opinions. And again, not to be right, but to figure out what's the best for the business and the practice and the patients instantly we're able to flourish, which then leads to the third rung on this ladder of our winning success pyramid. And that is commitment.

 

So whatever we healthy debate, whatever we decided meetings, we as a team actually commit and we're not having these side conversations. I always say, what needs to be said in a meeting needs to be said in the meeting. We're not having it go outside because once it goes outside, we've lost all of our trust and vulnerability. We've lost all of our ability to communicate with each other. All of that's gone. And so say it in the meeting. And if you don't say it in the meeting, that's on you. And you need to take the ownership of that and say, I didn't have trust and I didn't speak up and I didn't healthy debate it.

 

And that's on me because whatever's committed in that meeting, we commit and we move forward, which then leads to the fourth tier, which is peer to peer accountability. And I think what's really lovely in peer to peer accountability is let's go back to that sports analogy. They're having peer to peer, that quarterback's not running over to coach and saying, hey coach, could you tell the blocker to block for me? They're like, hey office manager, could you tell that assistant to have that route slip handed better to me? No, we've given permission to play.

 

We're calling the play, if you will, like block for me. I can't get sacked. We're not going to win. If you don't bring up a route that fully filled in that's, that's hurting me and the patient, the patient didn't get the best experience and nobody wins. And on peer to peer accountability, if we don't have that, we don't have the permission to play within our team. And we don't have the trust where teammates can call each other out so we can win again in a way that's with love and empathy and curiosity and also making it to where the patient wins, the team member wins and the practice wins.

 

Kiera Dent (07:03.234)

That's what we're looking for. We want our patients to the best experience. And if we can't call each other out when a route slip is not handed off perfectly, or we don't have a perfect handoff, the patient didn't get the best experience because now they've left and we didn't get the correct information there. The treatment coordinator didn't get the best experience. They didn't win from that. The dental assistant or whomever dropped it off or the hygienist whomever dropped the patient off, they're not getting the best experience because they didn't even know it was a wrong handoff. And this is where we have that peer to peer accountability. And when you can get your practices to have peer to peer accountability,

 

your practice will flourish. And that's at the top of the triangle is winning. And in Patrick Lanziani's, it's the opposite and it's like inattention to results. And so this is the flip of how to have a winning model. And I just want to come on of like, if you can help your team realize trust and vulnerabilities where we should be spending 90 % of our time. So how can we build more trust within our teams? We can do trust exercises. We can be vulnerable. Trust exercises are not like I remember as a kid, my brother.

 

Remember the trust falls where it's like you have to trust that someone's behind you they're going to catch you? Like, yes, you could probably do that. But we're talking more trust of, can we say things? Maybe it's about being vulnerable with our lives of what we've gone through in our childhood. Like, hey, this is where I was born. This is the number of siblings I have in my family. And this is something I really struggled with in childhood. This is something that I really struggled with that made a big impact and a profound impact on me. And just thinking about, are there ways that we can actually get this to where

 

We're sharing and we're more open and the more vulnerable owners are here and the more they have trust in the more we actually call the things out of like, Hey, dental assistants, what's your perspective? I know that there's something there. The more we have permission to play, the more we have these trust conversations, the more we build trust amongst each other, the more we share things, the more we call each other out and say like, great job. was a great, that was a great blocker. That was a great handoff or Hey, I need this information from you. And we're not having the nitpicky, the

 

drama, the eye roll of like, my gosh, Keira just always wants a perfect handoff. Well, yeah, of course I do. That's our standard of winning. If I don't have a perfect handoff, how am supposed to have a perfect treatment plan for these patients and not to blame you? This is just the system that we have. So let's all work together. My job is to make sure I'm presenting perfect treatment plans. And I can't do that if I'm not getting perfect handoffs of the information that was said in the room. So all these little places are how you're able to build a winning team.

 

Kiera Dent (09:25.016)

And this is what I obsess about. And this is what I love helping offices have because we focus so much on the skills. So many people are like, here, I want the systems. And yes, I've got the systems. Come, we have it, whether it's on our virtual or in-person. Come, I've got the systems for you. I have operations manuals. I've got the systems of morning huddle and route slips and handoffs and case acceptance and trackers and phone call trackers. And like literally any system you probably have ever wanted, I have a system for it. But that's 20%. It's just like in football, they can have all the plays.

 

But if they don't run the plays, they don't execute, they're not watching each other and they're helping because once you put the plays in action, AKA when you put the systems in action, customers come in, patients come in, people are coming different ways, other people are working, we've got lots of hands in the pot. The way you have the systems operate perfectly is being able to, have a great system, that's 20 % of this equation, but the other 80 % is being able to have this trust and vulnerability, the healthy debate, the commitment, the peer-to-peer accountability, and then we ultimately win as a team.

 

So if this resonates with you, try it out. Have the trust conversations with your practice. Have the trust conversations with your team. Have these conversations. And the more you have it, to me, it's how can we build more trust and vulnerability? So ways to do it, like I said, where are you from? How many siblings? And then tell something that you struggled with. Now, this is where you've got to be vulnerable. This is where you've got to set the stage as leaders.

 

of what's the level of vulnerability that we're going to have within our practice. What's the level of vulnerability? If it's like, you know, I really struggled being popular. That's something I struggled with. Well, your team can't relate with that, but maybe you struggled with weight loss when you were a child. Maybe you struggled being bullied as a child. Maybe you struggled like for me, I cheated in first grade because my brother was so freaking smart and I actually wasn't that smart. And my family was so insistent that we go to college and here I am not passing spelling tests. And so I literally cheated in school.

 

to get my mom to put my paper up on the wall because I wanted to be as good as my brother was. I really struggled in school and people look at me like, how is that even possible? You graduated from Valedictoria. Like, no, I freaking struggled and I had to work really hard at it I would throw my books across the room because I was so frustrated that like all of my other siblings got it and I just didn't. And yet I knew I had to get good grades because my parents couldn't afford to put me through college. And the expectation to my family was that I went to college.

 

Kiera Dent (11:42.244)

Like that was something I really struggled with. And so I literally in first grade moved my books away. I put the test words right there. And I literally cheated on my test in first grade to make sure that I could have good grades. And I got called out on it I was super embarrassed. And I had to go home and tell my parents and I straight up lied to my parents that I was just looking at the floor. But it taught me a really good lesson that I'm not naturally smart. I actually have to work for this and I have to figure it out.

 

And that was something that I really struggled with as a child. And if you can come to the table where you actually can share and empathize, now it's like, all right, this is Kiera as a human. I'm not coming here because I'm better than you or I'm less than you. I'm coming here because I ultimately want to make our practice great. And if we can share those things with our team and we can expect that level of trust and vulnerability and you as the leader and the owner and the doctor and the office manager coming together and telling our team, like, we want to hear this.

 

Yes, there's navigation. can't tell you how many times I call it out in offices of like, Hey, like we could definitely say this with like a little more finesse, but you're right. Like this is spot on. This is what needed to be said. Let's practice our delivery and our approach for future. Those are the small things, but this is how I make practices exponentially grow. And if you don't have the trust and use you as the owner aren't doing this. That's where I love consulting offices. This is where I love. I help hundreds of offices do this. This is where I love teaching each other to how do we call each other out in the play?

 

How do we help each other realize when we're presenting treatment plans, we're planting weeds in our flower garden, aka we're saying words that's actually deterring patients from saying yes to us. And if I can't hear that internally, I need to trust my team to call me out on it and receive that with grace and humility and say, thank you. That's the way we're all able to win together. So this is an epitome of how you build a winning team. It's a great formula for you. Like I said, the book is incredible. Also something where we help with this, but I think...

 

For me even having an outsider that can help my team realize like, say the things and watching that consultant within our company navigate our team and help them have the trustable conversations, say what needs to be said, really commit. There's no side conversations. And when there are side conversations, how do we have grace and humility and help each other out is really what I'm passionate about. So if you realize like, my gosh, my team needs help with this, reach out. [email protected].

 

Kiera Dent (14:04.846)

I'm here for you. can do a strategy call. can help you because so many people want the systems and don't realize the trust and vulnerability, the hard conversations that you don't even have to call them hard conversations. Let's just call them growth conversations. This is how you're ultimately going to flourish and win. And so I just encourage you to set up the winning model, encourage this model with your teams. It works. I've watched teams literally morph in a quarter, in a half a year, in a year into these thriving teams. when teams are disjointed or they're not hitting goals with ease,

 

Usually that that indicates to me that there's not a lot of trust of true trust and there's actually artificial harmony within that team And so just bringing that for you if I can help in any way I'm here for it and also just bringing it to light for you. So try it out Let me know and as always thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

Dr. Brian Harris is back once more, this time talking about how he continued the practice after his father left. He touches on financial considerations (like selling to a DSO), growing pains being part of a first-of-its-kind DSO, and more.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:00.214)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am so pumped that you are back for day two with me and Brian Harris. We talked yesterday about partnerships and the different pieces about it. And now today we're actually going to talk about how to have a successful practice after the buy-in, which I think is so important and is not talked about. So get ready and as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast. And one other thing I want to talk about really quick is after you buy in. Yeah, let's talk about that.

 

Well, I just, you know, come like 2014, 15, 16, like, I don't have to practice for long time. And then I start getting to that point where, you know, you're like, I just want to, I want to have full control, you know, and you start thinking like, man, it'll be nice when this is just all mine, you know, and I will tell you, that's the one thing that I did not appreciate that senior doctor that's been there for so long.

 

They're the ones that have all the trust with the patients. They're the ones that they're the they're they're your most predictable producer that you're ever going to find is a doctor. Like you want them as your partner for as long as possible. And when they're ready to be bought out, you want them to stay on and continue to work for you as long as possible. There's that selfish side of all of us that I think we're like, I just want to call this all mine. I just want it to be mine so I can make all the decisions. But

 

it's really, really hard to replace a family member, especially if it's like your father that you're working with. It's going to be really hard to replace them from a production standpoint with an associate doctor, but also the stress of having to worry about somebody else's work and are they doing a good job? Are they being fair? When you have someone that you trust, especially when it's family, you don't ever have to worry about that. You don't ever have to worry about them pissing patients off or saying the wrong thing to staff or, know, it's like,

 

I think that's totally undervalued that there's so much value in having, you know, a long trip partner continue as a partner in the practice and continue as an associate after. Yeah, no, that's brilliant. And also just thinking, as you were saying it, I don't think that we value the wisdom and the mentorship of that senior partner. You can't put a price tag on it and you can't even realize, but I guarantee you.

 

The Dental A Team (02:20.683)

Your dad taught you a lot about how to run a practice from a successful standpoint. He'd gone through a lot of things. Like you said, like trusted with the patients. That's what's built a lot of this foundation for you that I think like, yes, agree. I think it's good that we have egos to a point because they drive us. But at the same time, realizing how much you can learn from that doctor, that senior partner before they leave you.

 

Now, of course, there's some senior partners that aren't as great. understand that, so, depending upon your partnership. But if you have a good business partner, if they're good with the business, if they're good with production, if they're great with patients, if they've built something of a legacy, if they want to leave a legacy, I think those partners are just invaluable. And so kudos, thank you for bringing that up because, yeah, I think it is easy to wanna like move on. Like, I wanna take this on, but gosh, there's a...

 

There is a lot of wisdom in that. And also for, I'm sure for your dad and for those senior partners to have a place that they also trust, like to pass it to you and to see it flourish and to be able to continue to work and do their passion for as long as they want, I think is also a gift you can give that senior partner for building a practice that you were able to buy to grow, flourish, just allowing them to finish out their career in a way that they want to, I think is also pretty incredible. Yeah, I agree. How do you navigate the DSO world now?

 

I'm just gonna like dive into like all the like, juices, like, what do do? Because like, you can hold it for a legacy. How do you navigate legacy dental practices versus selling to a DSO that's paying top dollar right now? I just want to ask all the questions, Brian. I'm here for you. Do you know my story, right? Yeah, tell our listeners. Yeah. So I mean, I think it's, I think it's absolutely a conversation needs to be had. One of the things I didn't recognize

 

And I don't even think Scott and I recognized it when we bought my dad out is, you know, we went and paid him what the practice is worth. And then we were like, wait, you know, we have a eight and a half, $9 million practice. Now, who's going to buy into this? Yeah. Who's going to be the other third partner that's going to come in and, you know, and pay, you know, $3 million to buy in just a fraction of ownership and a practice. and so we, kind of got ourselves to this place where we're like,

 

The Dental A Team (04:37.333)

we're kind of stuck, you know, and it's a great thing. it's either, okay, good, continue, just continue to do what you're doing and figure it out 20 years from now when we're ready to retire. Or, you know, do you take advantage of joining a DSO? Do you take advantage of creating a partnership now and growing with them? And what does that look like? And so, I mean, we turned down

 

14, 15 different offers. mean, we would get it. We'd get approached all the time and it just never, it never made sense. And ultimately we were approached by a group. did it not make sense? Explain why it didn't make sense. It didn't make sense for me because it was like,

 

The Dental A Team (05:22.253)

I want to say this in the right way. I felt like we had spent a lot of time building like a reputable brand and I felt like it was like selling out. I felt like it was like, you know, it's like we build like this, this elite brand and it's all about patient care and, and quality dentistry and all these things. Then it was like, but we're going to take a big check. And now we're just part of this other group of bunch of other offices. Sure. And

 

And so when Gen 4 had approached me, they sat me down and they basically were like, hey, this is what we've done in the endo space. This is what we did in the oral surgery space. This is what we did with small doctors in the ortho space. And they'd had this track record of forming groups within the specialty industries that were highly respected specialists in their industry.

 

And so, you know, they said, hey, we're looking to do the same thing with cosmetic dentistry and higher end family practices. And when they shared that vision with me and I started to look at it and then I reached out to a handful of my friends that were very, very well known cosmetic dentists, you know, probably 10 years my senior that are that have some of the most well known practices in the world. And and and I said, hey, you know,

 

What do you guys think? You know, is this something you want to be a part of? And when I saw them start to see that same vision that I had where they recognize like, hey, they're kind of in this interesting spot too now where what is their exit strategy? so there's been a ton of us that have joined Gen 4 and it's been a journey. mean, I would feel totally comfortable saying this out loud if the...

 

investors and the partners were in the room like, yeah, there's challenges. There's challenge anytime you're growing something new in an industry. You there hasn't really been a DSO out there to my knowledge that's that's been one of trying to do more higher end, higher quality. And I've, I've worked with a ton of them. And I actually think there are some amazing groups out there that they do excellent dentistry and do very good quality dentistry, you know, but

 

The Dental A Team (07:46.475)

A lot of them have started from the ground up, one or two offices, to bring together a bunch of seasoned offices. That's a tougher thing and hadn't been done at this level. So it's, yeah, we've had our own pains, but at the same time, like, it's been great. It's been great to kind of work through that together. I've been part of the group two years now and I'm happy. I really enjoy it. You know, they give me total freedom. I haven't had to change the way that I

 

practiced industry, you I do everything exactly the same. But you know, there's some other behind the scenes business stuff, you know, that I've had to adapt to. but no, no regrets, no regrets at all. And were they a DSO? And if you can share this great and if not, don't don't fill because I know every day is different. were they one where it was like they sold you stock in the business, they took part of it then they keep you on as an associate? Is that basically kind of because I know that's most of the structure of DSO is they'll buy you out.

 

pay you for it where you're at, you get stuck in the company typically, and then they continue to pay you as an associate doctor basically of whatever production. Is that how it worked for you with Gen 4? Or were there different nuances or different ways that they did it for you to keep it within what you wanted it to be? Yeah, the two main structures I've seen, it's like they're coming to buy out half and you stay half partner and then you continue to grow together or they buy you out entirely.

 

and you roll back in some of that money in stock and then you grow as a company. And I've seen both work. Gen four, they came in, they bought us out entirely. And then we rolled back in a percentage of that buyout into stock and the overall company. And I think for me, when I was looking at it, was like, whether they buy out 50 % or they buy out all, like either way, like I'm committed now. I'm not going anywhere. so.

 

I kind of felt like for me, was like, you know what, I'd rather be bought out. And now it's essentially, it's like, I just have ownership in a several hundred dollar, several hundred million dollar company as opposed to just like my own practice. So it's just kind of a different mindset and different way of looking at it. But yeah, that was the structure. And then I get paid a generous percentage of everything that I do.

 

The Dental A Team (10:12.971)

You know, it works. That's awesome. And I think, like you said, I feel like the DSO route is so brilliant for larger practices because like you said, who's going to come in and buy us at this eight, nine, $10 million practice. And that's not even on evaluation. That's just on what we're producing. And so you tack on the valuation, like who's really going to be able to come in and also where it's so specialized or you do things that, like, I remember I had a doctor who was looking to buy a practice and we looked at the production and I'm like, I would strongly advise not buying this practice. said,

 

70 % of the production is stuff you don't even do. I was like, so how are you going to make up that production amount that you're buying when you're not even a dentist that's doing that? And so for you guys, you really did get yourself into not a corner, but like you said, it's either we can sell to someone who can buy us now and continue to grow it, continue to work as long as we are, or our path is we just keep rolling this until we're ready to retire, which then at that point, probably your valuation's down, someone's gonna come buy it because it's less dollars for you, but you had a long-term.

 

And what's great about the DSO route that I do enjoy for practices like you is you have the option to work for pretty much as long as you want. Of course, there are structures that could change, right? Like you were bought by someone else, they could sell to someone, it could change the structure of how it is. So like that is a piece to it. But overall, I think the DSOs currently are playing with, let the dentist keep producing because they love to do what they do. Don't rock that world. And that tends to be the structure I'm seeing right now. So. And there's always a trade off. I would tell doctors like,

 

What you shouldn't do is feel like, well, everyone else is doing it. I just need to do it too. Like it should, you should be able to look at it on paper and be like, this just, this absolutely makes sense. Like it would be silly not to move forward to this because it just makes sense. The deals that I see that, you know, I've, I've seen a lot of people, you know, really get upside down and really get in a bind is where they, they just kind of like,

 

rolling their equity with another group because of this promise of something bigger, or they take a small payout now with this promise of this big thing later and not realizing that's not a guarantee. And in fact, a lot of these don't ever get to that point down the road. so it's just one of those things. You only should do it if you're cash flowing good and you're happy and your practice is going good and your team's happy. Absolutely, there's no reason to do it. I don't think, I really don't think so.

 

The Dental A Team (12:38.443)

you should only do it if you're at this position like where we were, it's like, okay, one of the main partners is retiring. We're kind of at a point now where this is as high as we're gonna be able to go with how we're doing now. And the only next logical step is to do this. Yeah. No, gosh, Brian, talk about a fun podcast. I enjoy when my podcast like tickle the brain and make me think harder and geek about all the things that don't get talked about. I mean, like you said, we went from.

 

partnerships to marriage to DSO buyouts and I just I appreciate you Sharing because I think so much of this is not discussed so many doctors feel like they're navigating it alone So many doctors don't know how to do a partnership somebody don't know The feelings that you shared today are normal and they're real and everyone feels them So talk about them and here's ways that you have had success So thanks for like I said last time we talked about smile virtual, which honestly you guys go check out smile virtual. I think it's incredible telehealth

 

Like it's amazing, Brian, I recommend you guys all the time for it. So definitely check out Smile Virtual for it. But Brian, thanks for, thanks for navigating all the pieces. Any last wrap ups you've got things, how can people connect with you? Last thoughts today as we wrap up, truly just enjoyed this really, I don't know, like I said, I love the soul filling conversations and that's what I feel like we had today. So thank you. No, you're welcome. And I feel the same way. And I think that's just so great about getting on here with you is

 

is that, you know, ultimately this is it's not for me. It's not for you. It's for those listening that have been listening to you for long time and trust what you're teaching. It's it's for those because there there are a lot of people that that do feel stuck from time to time. And I think these are the things that don't ever get talked about. And, you know, I'll come back. We'll do the case acceptance one. I think that's super important. But I think I think this is probably the right message for today. And I think the only thing that I would leave

 

the listeners with is just that like, like you have the ability to pivot. You have the ability today to like stop making decisions. Just decide it. Decide how you want to practice. Decide how you want things to look moving forward. And you also have the ability to go and partner with a coach, you know, and Kiera and her team do such an amazing job of like, of guiding doctors along that path and show them exactly how to do it. Like,

 

The Dental A Team (15:03.821)

follow somebody that's done it before or work with somebody that knows how to do it and just go and do it. And I think that's the one thing I've learned over the years is I've never once looked back and been like, man, I'm really glad I waited so long to finally make the decision to invest in myself. There's always regret of like I should have done it sooner. So just take that leap of faith. Thank you. Well, and that's a huge compliment. I appreciate you so much.

 

And really that's what we're here for is to guide them. I think it's hard to like, we have so much passion like you and I do to not want to share it with other people, to not want to give our guidance to people, to not want to, to help you navigate through these things from people who've been there, done that and done it successfully. So Brian, thank you for being someone today to share that successful guidance. And if people want to connect with you, how's the best way to chat, like I said, smile virtual, clean products, I think is like the coolest thing.

 

like your online courses, different pieces, how do people connect with you, Brian? Yeah, probably the best thing is probably just DrBrianHarris.com. So from that site, you can gain access to my social media, you can message me directly. But yeah, just www.DrBrianHarris.com or at Dr. Brian Harris on Instagram. But yeah, those are the easiest ways to find me and reach out anytime.

 

I'm happy to share with anybody that is stuck or is needing anything. I love it. Thank you. And for all of you listening, thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Dr. Brian Harris of Smile Virtual gets real and raw with Kiera. The topic: burnout, and how Dr. Harris navigated it to boost himself toward success. He talks about what that meant personally, professionally, as well as tackling the reality of finances and production with a practice partner, and more.

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:00.536)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am super pumped to welcome back one of our top guests that's been on the podcast, Dr. Brian Harris. I hope you guys caught his last podcast where we went into all things for Smile Virtual, how we can increase your practice by doing virtual consults. And today he's back to chat, case acceptance, and I'm going to geek out and ask him my own personal selfish questions, but Brian's incredible. Welcome back, Brian. How are you today? Thank you. It is great to be back. I loved the conversation we had last time and I feel like we started to

 

to get into some really cool topics and then we ran out of time. So this is great. I'm excited to be back for sure. I love someone who can geek dental with me for as long as we were to where we run out of time because we're just so in the thick of it. And so welcome back. I love it. Tell us though, for those who might have missed the last episode, kind of just give them a quick rundown of who you are, how you became the Brian Harris, how you're helping dentists across the nation. I love what you do. I think you do incredible work.

 

And we even have actually had, this is random. I have friends that have worked for you in Arizona that I just put the connection together last night. I was like, wait, Trista worked for you. And so it's kind of a fun time, but kind of for our audience, if they don't know you, give them a quick intro about you and what you do and how we even got here to then tee up our stage for today. Yeah, that's always scary when you have friends that have worked for somebody or worked for me because then you're like, shoot, they know like, they know the real me. So,

 

You know, I will I'll give you a background. You know, I feel like I've got, you know, a pretty common story in dentistry, but then also like a pretty interesting one, too. You know, I grew up around it. My dad was a dentist. I've got two brothers that are dentists. My father-in-law is a dentist. I mean, it's it's just kind of always been part of my life. Joined my dad's practice 2005. He was doing a ton of cosmetic dentistry at that time. And so

 

you know, naturally was able to mentor me and allow me to do a lot myself. And we have a, you know, just a great family cosmetic practice. And we built that into five different locations throughout Arizona. And then probably like 2016 was like the real pivot point for me because I was, you know, we were cruising along, we had the five locations, but I was burning out and

 

The Dental A Team (02:29.088)

And I kind of was just like, man, I just want to do what I love to do. And I don't necessarily want to be going to all these offices. I don't want to be working the hours that I was working. And so I had an experience with my wife kind of urging me to push and post more on social media and kind of show the world the type of dentistry that I do. And everything just kind of took off from there and started to build a brand and started to

 

to have patients flying in to see me. because of that, launched a software platform called Smile Virtual. talked about that last time and it's the top tele-industry platform now in our industry. And I still am seeing patients three long days a week and loving what I do with Smile Designs and probably about 70 % of all my patients fly in from out of state to see me in two visits.

 

That's my story. It's been pretty remarkable and I've been able to take the things that I've learned and I'm just passionate about sharing that with other doctors and helping them do the same in their own practices. I love it. Thank you for sharing that. And it was interesting because my husband and were talking last night. I told him, said, hey, tomorrow's podcast day. I'm really excited. We were chatting about your podcast. And my husband actually asked me an interesting question. He's like, Kiera, I think this would actually be a really good podcast topic. And I said,

 

I don't know the answer to it. So Brian, maybe you can actually help. Because as you were talking about your story and having the locations, I think there actually becomes this pivotal moment where we're on this path. And so my husband asked me, he said, what's the difference between settling, failing, and living in the moment? And I'm curious if you have any insights on that. I know I didn't prep you up for it, and I didn't even plan to talk about it with you. But I think you kind of hit that level, right? You could have kept growing, and you decided.

 

Like I'm burnt out, but I think so many of us it's like, well then am I settling and like gonna just scale back? Am I failing because I'm tired or am I like living in the moment or then also pivoting to what I really want? So do you have any insights on that? Like I said, I wasn't planning on it, but I didn't have quite the answers and I think it could be a really interesting combo to kind of kick us off today. Yeah, I love that question. I really love that question and I've never been asked it before. And so that's why when you asked it, I was like, huh.

 

The Dental A Team (04:50.446)

That's actually really interesting. I think, I think what happens is for me, at least the way I experienced it, it kind of, I experienced all three of those things at the same time. Like I felt like to some degree I was like, well, yeah, we have the five locations. Like I should be happy, know, I need to be successful doing what I love. But then also I kind of felt like I was, you know, so I felt like I was like, well,

 

am I settling because I don't get to do only the stuff I love? And then it kind of felt like failure because I felt like, you know, I should be happy, but I wasn't. So I kind of felt like I was failing at this game of happiness as a dentist. And then I think the third part of that is like recognizing that like, that's the sweet spot. Like that's where you want to be because I feel like that's where the magic happens when you get to this.

 

this point of like internal conflict of like, what's really going on here? Like that's like, when you make a move there, you know, if you make the right move, it's always going to be like the move that made a difference. know? It's interesting. And I'm curious, like, how did you reconcile through that? And like, how long does it take? Because I know, like I'm going through a very similar experience and like this summer, I just hit rock bottom and I'm like, but on paper, my life is like popping.

 

It's the most perfect and like people on the outside looking in are like, here, what are you talking about? My family is like, what are you talking about? But internally you have this guilt, you have this struggle. It's like, I'm so happy with the life I'm living, but I'm also like so stretched, so thin. And I'm also questioning like, am I really on the path that I want to be on? Or am I just on the path that kind of like fell into my lap? And maybe I'm, managing it rather than creating it. So like how long does, and I agree with you, it is the magic sweet spot, but it.

 

feels like it's the failure sweet spot. feels like it's the rock bottom. feels like it's the the ultimate failure of your life. I'm like, I'm, my life is so good that I'm so miserable. It's such like this like paradox of life. So how did you navigate through it? How long did it take you? Because it doesn't happen overnight. And I think so many people have this like

 

The Dental A Team (07:01.678)

misbelief that it's like, Brian woke up and was like, I know what I want to do. Versus it's like it takes some time. And maybe you did. Maybe I'm the one who just takes a long time to figure out what I want to do in life. But how was that for you? How did you navigate it? Yeah, I think what happens is, when you've been there a couple times, like to me, I see it now is like, that's just part of the process is part of growth. The first couple times I found myself in situations like that with different

 

companies that I started or things that I got involved in. It took me months, even years to make a decision. But now it happens all the time where, you know, I'll have this great idea and on paper, like it's like, this makes total sense. And then I start down that path and I'm like, ooh, this is a bad idea. And so now I've gotten really good at like, just, when I recognize that it's not a dead end, it's just a cul-de-sac. You just freaking turn around and go back the other way and,

 

and do something different. And so I think, I mean, you're going to have listeners, viewers that are at this point where they're like, I don't get it. Like I'm just getting started. don't even, I can't even get patients in the chair. Like I don't have that problem yet, but they will get to that point at some time. And so I think if you're there, then it's like, listen to this conversation, cause it's going to happen sometime. And then you're going to have a lot of people that I feel are there. And, and I think that the important thing is

 

stop making decisions, just decide. Just decide. If it's what you want to do and you're like, you know what, I'm ready for a change. A mentor of mine pushed me and as I was going back and forth with him of like, I want to do this, but I also only want to see small design cases. But I also don't want to make my dad and brother upset because they think I'm being selfish for not wanting to do hygiene exams anymore. I was going back and forth and he's like, dude, Brian.

 

He's like, for two days we've been talking, he's like, stop making decisions, just decide, are you gonna do it or not? He's like, if you're gonna do it, then just do it and then go and create it. But if you're not, then stop worrying about it and just get back to what you were doing before. How did you figure out, Brian, that you, that's so lovely, and I love that you brought up family dynamics and guilt and like, I don't want my spouse to think this about me, but it's like, people don't actually think those things. I think a lot of times we project it. And even if they do think that, like,

 

The Dental A Team (09:25.486)

At the end of day, it's your life and you're creating it and you're living it. How did you decide though? Cause I think there's a piece of you of like, you've got this serial entrepreneur in you. mean, we're going to talk clean products. We're going to talk a lot of the different things you've done. You cosmetic dentist, smile, virtual, clean products. Like you've got this serial entrepreneur within you. So you've got this like massive growth. You're building all these practices, but then you also love cosmetic dentistry. How did you navigate and decide like, what I really have my passion for is this? Because I think some people get like sloshy there and they get gray there. And it's like, it's.

 

under the surface of I think like layers and layers and layers of guilt or what I should be doing or maybe I don't know but I'm like I feel like people always have that core they do know how did you decide that that was your core and you wanted to do these these smile virtual designs and that's what you really wanted to do. Yeah, I think I think two things happen I think people they realize it's what they want to do but then they don't feel like you know they have these thoughts of doubt of like well

 

I'm never gonna have enough of those type of patients come in. I think that's a separate conversation. I think the conversation of like the first part that you mentioned of like, do you do that without feeling selfish? Especially within like a family dynamic. I think you just have to be vulnerable and really open and honest and speak to your partners. Speak to those in your life that it's going to affect and come up with a way where it works for everybody. know, it was, and I mean, rightfully so.

 

It does seem selfish to say like, hey, I am only going to do smile designs. I don't want to do hygiene exams anymore. You know, if I've got a dad and a brother who are my partners that are like, well, that's not fair. know, cool. We don't want to do them either. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it depends. Every practice different sometimes like, that's, that's how you fill your schedule. But other times, like it is a burden. And so being able to go to them and say, okay, here's my thought. If I do this.

 

I know it's going to increase my personal production, know, and we're partners, you know, all three of us are partners in this. And so in the end, what's going to happen is like, I'm willing to push hard. I'm willing to work hard. And at the time I think I was personally producing, I think my monthly average is about 450,000 a month, just myself, you know, doing smile design cases. And so I was able to show them like, if I do this,

 

The Dental A Team (11:49.08)

there's gonna be significant amount more money going into practice that we can all share. And the trade off is that I'm not gonna have to do the exams and I'm gonna be able to practice kind of over here separate from the practice, but it's gonna put more stress on you guys, but ultimately we'll all win financially because we're partners. And that's exactly what happened. So. Yeah, no, and I think that's incredible because I also think as society and as doctors and as partners and as people,

 

I think we often think what's fair is equal. And that's actually not true. Like it doesn't have to be like just because you can produce more doesn't mean that we have to be seeing all the hygiene exams. And I think when we can all step back and say, what's in the betterment of the business, which is ultimately in the betterment of all of us. And then how can we do that? And I know for even like some partnerships, yeah, it does make sense financially for you to do it, but the stress of the hygiene exams is going to be a piece for us.

 

Well, great, let's find a middle ground. Maybe I take pick up hygiene exams one day out of the week, but I do smile design cases for the rest of the week until we realize like this is really better or like let's bring on an associate that does hygiene exams. Where it's like there's so many different crayons in our crayon box. Like let's not forget that we don't just have black and white. We actually have all the myriad of colors and finding the solution. I think it's important. So thanks for like going down that rabbit hole with me a little bit. I was just so curious. I'm like, it seems like he's got it like pretty much figured out. And I also really loved and I hope people heard like

 

I think the more we can practice this skill of, like, I remember I was at a conference this summer and the speaker was saying, he's like, why, why did you ever think that you have just one why or one purpose in this life? He's like, why can't you think that you might have multiple purposes and multiple whys throughout your lifetime? And it was just like, aha moment. Cause I was like, find your why. I'm like, what if there's a few whys throughout like the chapters of our life. And so I really loved how it sounds like you've just built that mental resilience of.

 

try this path and if we get to the end, it's just a cul-de-sac and we redirect and come back rather than it being like, I'm at the bottom, I'm at the ultimate failure. No, we're just like redirecting and figuring out exactly where we're going. And I think like mountain climbs, you look at it, it's not just a straight uphill climb. It's literally like there's dips and ups and dips and ups, but that's actually how we get to the top, not just in one like direct line. So I really, really loved it. Any last thoughts you've got on that before I pivot into case acceptance and clean products?

 

The Dental A Team (14:06.348)

No, the only other thing that I thought of when when I was talking is just what I don't think it's talked about enough is partnerships and especially family partnerships, but just partnerships in general. I mean, you hear just horror stories of how how things end and and the reality is like working with family or working with partners where you're really close like it's it can be a beautiful thing, but it's it's just like a marriage to like you.

 

you will have your times where, you know, there's frustration, there's, you know, anger, there may be some tears, you have to be able to just talk through things and hear both sides and come up with a solution that's fair. I think when I see things fall apart, there's all this tension, but nobody's willing to talk about it. And I think that's where problems happen.

 

So let's dig a little deeper on partnerships because you actually have family partnerships and then you have other business partnerships. What do you find are some of the top things to make partnerships successful? Because there is a phrase that I have heard that I think is very ironic and they say, partnerships sink ships. But then I also hear other people where partnerships can actually exponentially grow the ship as well. So what are some of the things you've done from family partnerships to business partnerships?

 

that you feel have set that up because I don't think you could do all the things you do without strong partnerships. Maybe you could. I don't know. Maybe you're Superman and I don't know it. But I feel like so much of your success is actually on leveraging and being connected to really great partners. I could be wrong. But what do you find within that partnership world that has helped you be successful in partnerships and not sinking the ships? I think you have to find partners that, you know, are aligned in the same vision. But I also think you

 

you have to go into it with a strong understanding that it may end. And if it does, how do you both be able to walk away and be at peace with everything? I think the struggle I've found for myself in some partnerships in the past is like for me, and it's just more my personality, like I'm ready to go. Like I'm up at four every day. I leave my house by like,

 

The Dental A Team (16:27.854)

between 431 and 432, depends on how long it takes me to feed the dogs. And I'm at the office, I've got a little bit of a commute, but I'm there at 510. And then I work until I start seeing patients at seven, and I don't take a lunch, and I work through the end of the day. On Thursdays, I work nonstop on the businesses. But I recognize now, but that's not normal. And it's not necessarily healthy. For most people, it's not.

 

healthy thing. It's just how I operate best. And I would go into partnerships sometimes expecting that like, we're both going to just be working this hard and growing this thing. And my brother Scott's like a perfect example of this. Like, he is very balanced. And he is like, he's going to go to the gym. And he's going to leave right on time so he could be home be with the family. And it and, you know, so it's it's like for him.

 

He's not going to waver. He's not going to bend on those things because, you know, those, you know, structure for him and his personality is extremely important. And so it's just understanding those things and then creating things within the partnership around that that just work. So again, communication, but then also don't just go form partnerships to form partnerships. You know, no, I was going to say, I think sometimes you're like, well, I have this idea.

 

I'll partner with somebody and we'll go and do it. I think you can actually run much faster alone. And then when you get to a point where it's time to bring in like a good strategic partner, you know, then then really think about who that who that person is. So on that, I'm curious, we're going to dig into this. This is so juicy, because people don't talk about it. So Brian, thank you for like tipping into the iceberg with me that I think is so just relevant. What's your take on? Do you go 5050?

 

And then as a stronger producer, how do you make that to where you as a stronger producer actually don't become resentful to say people who like your brother Scott are leaving on time? Like how do you, because I think that the resentment is the underlying tones. Logically, I can understand that like I'm this type of wiring. My brother's this type of wiring, but how do you not like allow that underlying tension? Do you set it up to where you're paid more as a higher producer? Because I know that there's some partnerships where the producer, I think

 

The Dental A Team (18:52.27)

I don't know. I'm going to give air quotes. think sometimes being the larger producer sometimes feels like the easier person in the partnership, even though like I've got air quotes around that because the other partner usually is the one picking up the hygiene exams. They're doing the minimal dentistry, but they're benefiting from the higher producer. And the higher producer has all the stress of you've got to freaking produce as well to like carry this ship as well. Like how do you navigate and not get resentment? Should it be 50 50? Should it be broken down on like

 

how much you're producing so that way you keep your drivers incentivized. Like what are your thoughts around how to set that up? Obviously, this is what's worked for you. People have to figure out what works for them. But any tips that you have on that or insights from all the partnerships you've done? Yeah, I'll just share what's worked for my brother Scott and I and hopefully he's cool with me sharing this. And we need to understand about Scott is like he's

 

He's an amazing cosmetic dentist. Like his attention to detail is like next level. And that's not saying that mine is not. It's just that, you know, from like a comfort level and speed and like flow, what works for me really works for me. It works for him, really works for him. But yeah, like let's say, let's say in a certain scenario, you know, you get to the end of the month and you're 50, 50 partners, but let's say, you know, I'm just going to use rough numbers just to keep it simple.

 

Let's say one partner produces $100,000 and the other one produces $200,000 and you're both paid on a percentage of what you do. let's just call it like 35%. Well, what happens is over here, after I get paid my 35%, Scott gets paid his 35%. Like that's fair because we're getting a percentage of what we produce. But a lot of times in this higher percentage area of production, there's more pure profit going to the practice.

 

Right. so, but technically you split all the profit 50-50. Right. And so what can happen sometimes is you get to a scenario where like you're like, wait, for me to move the needle more and to make more money, I've got to produce significantly more. Right. And so what Scott and I ended up doing is like, we would just say like, hey, this is what it is. We each get paid our 35%. We split whatever comes in, but that we stop.

 

The Dental A Team (21:14.734)

like two times a year, once before the summer, once before the end of the year, look at all the numbers and say like, okay, before we do this actual split, let's look at it. Do feel it's fair? You know, are you good with how things are going? He would say his piece, I would say mine. And if we looked at the numbers and it was like, man, I produced quite a bit more the last six months, then we take whatever that money was there to split that month and be like, well, hey, how do you feel about 70 30 or a feel about 60 40? And, and we would do things

 

that way. And I know that doesn't work for everybody. But I think I think just being open, it's like you have you have the rules of like how the partnership set up. But then you also have the ability to be able to say like, Hey, do we need to adjust a couple times a year? And would this feel more fair just so you don't get to a place where you're resentful? And you said oftentimes, the easier partner is to be the higher producer. Yeah.

 

I totally agree with that. But then I also feel like sometimes, you know, the the partner doctor, you know, that's not a fun place to be in either, because, you know, they're they're always feeling like, you know, they're always feeling like maybe there could be some resentment there, they're always feeling like, you know, maybe things potentially aren't fair. I mean, it's it's a delicate, it's a delicate situation. But I think you

 

You treat the business like a business. I guess that's the one thing that I would say is treat it like a business. Try to take the emotion out and say, okay, what's really like the fairest way to do this? And that will resolve a lot of the issues. Yeah. And I think like props to you and Scott. Scott, I know you're not on this, but thank you. Like, hopefully you listen to this. I also think that there's different value systems, right? Like hearing just you and Scott, I don't know Scott, I'm not interviewing Scott, I'm not podcasting with him. But to me, sounds like Scott's big thing is like his balance of his life.

 

Like he wants to be with the kids. He wants to work out. He wants to have like, loves doing dentistry. but like that to me is what I would think if I was looking at a value chart, that would be it. And Brian, not to say that your family is not important. Brian's family. That's not what we're saying here. Okay. We're just saying Brian's wired to your, a race horse. You want to go, you want to drive like that keeps you so inspired. And when you're fulfilled that way, you actually show up better for your family. You show up better for yourself. I can relate to that because I'm very much wired that way. And I always feel like a little bit of a jerk, like

 

The Dental A Team (23:39.32)

Jay, I promise I love you. But it's like there's two different value systems running too. And so I think when partners can realize that, like, don't chop off Brian as this racehorse who wants to produce and wants to be there early and wants to go at 4.30 in the morning. Don't cut that to make the partnership fair. Like let Brian be himself, let Scott be himself. And then like you said, I do think the evaluation throughout the year is smart because a racehorse like yourself, Brian,

 

Like it is fun on the production. is fun to like hit the numbers. fun to see what you can produce. It's fun to challenge yourself. Like that's, think probably like growth and that drive for you. And so reward that person, give them like extra production, like rock on, keep running, keep doing it. And I'm going to keep my awesome balanced life over here. And I can see that. But I also think like kudos to Scott. I think that takes a lot of humility on his part too, to see that, because I think so many partners potentially on Scott's side can actually feel like less than.

 

and ego can creep in and say, well, no, I'm doing all these other things. We're fair. We're equal. So like, what do do when that creeps in of ego? Maybe Scott's just like an amazing human. I'm sure there's been times though. How do you guys navigate that conversation, Brian, because I've heard it in so many partnerships that I can't imagine you guys are immune to it forever. Maybe it was just earlier on too. Yeah, I think part of it is

 

You know, I remember we, I run a mastermind and a group of doctors that I started about six years ago and it's called the Elite Academy. And when we meet together, we'll share numbers, we'll share production numbers. I think...

 

Scott had always felt a certain way about it until we're in this room and everyone's sharing their numbers. And he's like, wait, I actually am a super high producer. He's like, wait, I'm producing $180,000 a month just himself. And yet maybe in our partnership, it can feel a certain way just because of how I work or how I do things. But the reality is he's super successful.

 

The Dental A Team (25:50.382)

cosmetic dentist and and is producing a really high level. So I think it's it's important to understand that like you got to step out of it sometimes and look at like the big picture and be like, okay, maybe this isn't what it seems like. But then also like, you know, it does happen sometimes where you have a partner that's just just cool cruising kind of at the bare minimum and and and I think you have to respect that you either change the partnership you get out of it or

 

Like you respect that and you come up with a better solution that's going to to work for that partnership. have, I have a close friend that got stuck in one of the situations where he was kind of essentially feeding the other two partners and they were on cruise control. It started to create a lot of resentment because he's wanting to run fast over here. They're like, Hey, we're comfortable here. Part of the reason they're comfortable is because all this productions, you know,

 

going to them and paying the bills. And so that that's a type of situation where he struggled forever to get out of that and finally went to him and said like, Hey, I think it's time that we dissolve the partnership. And at the end of the day, I think they feel like it's the best move to they don't want to be living in that kind of stress either. So just communication, just talk about it. And I think like that feels scary. It feels scary to have those conversations. It feels scary to say that I had a very similar I remember working with a partnership and

 

the doctor that was a high producer was so frustrated because the other doctor was just not even like, not even trying to support, not looking for ways, like super comfortable. Like I got this great producer, keep producing for me. I'm gonna sit over here and have my great life. But there, built up so much resentment between the two that it was irreparable. And so really, like you said, I think having those conversations and when things frustrate you from the get go or like, I think we think we're being the bigger person, I think it's cool.

 

just let it like roll over. But I'm like, when you let it roll over so often, I see it with so many partnerships, I see it in marriages of doctors that are married and they're working in the practices and I'm sure you do too. It's, I think it's we work on it when it's like a tiny sliver rather than when it's a massive boulder between the two. Because then you can't fix it. But like a little sliver, we can like pluck that out and we can take care of it we can repair that and we can move on. But so many times I think it's we gloss over, we don't work on it, we don't talk about it.

 

The Dental A Team (28:18.124)

and talking about it in a way where we actually come to a resolution, not a caving or giving in that then later builds resentment. So kudos to you guys, Brian. think great job, Scott. Great job, Brian. And I love what you said, Brian. And I'm the same way I always say, plan the divorce before you get married. How will we split this so that way all parties know? I think education on that is very powerful to know how we're going to end this if we ever end it. And then we write it and we do it until it no longer serves, but also.

 

Seeing the value that other partners bring, even if you're the high producer, think like kudos to you Brian on that. I think that that's a really magical thing because they do a lot of work that you're not doing. Like you're not doing hygiene exams. so seeing that that value, even though it's not dollar per dollar production, it does allow you to produce exponentially more. And without that, now you'd probably be okay. You probably don't need it as much, but to get you to where you are, they had to pave the way for you as well too. I think that there's, gosh, like you're right. There's just so many dynamics on it. So kudos to

 

But it's also a beautiful thing too. mean, if you look at, I mean, I've been married 24 years now. And if you look at, if you look at like relationships and partnerships, like you, you, you, least in my own relationship, I start to see like for, for so long, it was like, man, I wish she could be like this, or she would think, wish she could be more like this. And then you start to realize like, Hey, part of what makes this work is that we are very different. And part of what makes it work is like, you know,

 

we have different things to bring to the relationship. I think partnerships, it's the same thing, but sometimes we look at it as like, well, no, I'm doing this, they should be doing this too. Could you imagine what a marriage would be like if you were the younger or if you were the lower producer and you just felt like every day, your spouse was looking down on you and all the things that you're not doing right and how you need to be better and how you need to show more love. mean, it would just feel

 

it would feel super empty, but that's it's the same type of feelings, you know, and so it's being able to be like, okay, wait, okay, here's our here's our each of our strengths, like, let's play off these and let's create a great relationship. So yeah, no, and I'm so glad you brought that up. Because I remember for a long time, my husband is just such a fun human. And he like his his phrase lately has been like, gosh, like, why is life so good? And he's just like, obsessed with living in the moment and obsessed with being so happy. And I he reminds me

 

The Dental A Team (30:46.488)

to stop and smell the freaking roses of like this beautiful rose garden we've built rather than be like, rose garden done. We now need a forest. Like he's so good at reminding me of that. And for probably like the first five years of marriage, we've just hit our 13 years, so not the 24. But I remember like at year five, six, I thought, gosh, like I probably should have married someone different. Like I probably should have married someone who's a stronger driver with me. Someone who like challenges me harder. Neither is wild epiphany of

 

man, if I would have married that person, I don't think I could have blossomed to the level that I did because I would have been competing with someone. I wouldn't have had someone who's there like supporting me day in day out. Jason will wake up early with me in the morning. I'm sure you do it too, Brian. Like we just rattle off all of our brilliant ideas. Our poor spouses like love them because we just like hit them with all these great ideas and they just sit there and they love us and they encourage us and they inspire us. And I just thought there is so much beauty in who Jason is.

 

being complimentary to me rather than being the same as me. And it took a long time for me to realize that compliments actually so beautiful. And that's what makes the masterpiece rather than being the exact same color. And I think that it's well said. And with partnerships, just think like it takes humility and it takes like effort and it takes intentionality on partnerships to see what they're doing right rather than focusing on what's wrong, because what they're doing right and good and great is as available as what they're not doing and what they're failing at.

 

Both are available to us every single day. It's just which one are we choosing to look at more? And that's what creates our vision from my perspective. Yeah. For those just joining, welcome to the successful marriage podcast. We're here today. We'll dive into all things relationships. it's, it's, listen, it's beautiful. And, and I think some of it just comes with time and maturity and realizing like, I think the more time has gone on,

 

the more I realized like a lot of times like, and maybe I am the problem in both professional and personal relationships. And when you start to realize like, okay, you're way more in control than you think you are. So no, that was good. I'm glad we went into all that. I think it's important. You and me both. And I know we had come into the podcast thinking we were going to talk about something and the reality is we went in different route, but that's how podcasts work. so

 

The Dental A Team (33:07.756)

And I'm glad we did because I do agree with you. Partnerships are not discussed a lot. And I think people jump into partnerships and they're so excited about them. And I think you and I have a lot of years of experience personally. I've been in several partnerships myself in business and I've been burned a lot. I've had some very great successes a lot. I think you probably can relate. But the reality is I think so much success can come from partnerships. So just to clarify, do you believe in 50-50 partnerships? So pretend you're a solo doctor. You don't have family.

 

Are you a 50-50 proponent? Are you like a 30-70 proponent? Are you a small in this practice? And then we go 50-50 in the next practice. What's kind of your like, your flavors on partnerships just as a general consensus, which I understand will asterisked across. Every marriage looks different. Every relationship looks different. Every partnership looks different. There's different reasons for different pieces. But if you're an owner doctor, because I think so many owner doctors, Brian, you hear this, I hear this. I built this freaking practice and now just going to give away 50%.

 

and the newer doctors like, yeah, I'm not going to be like less than you. So like, how do you navigate that? What are your thoughts on that? Since we've decided to elect to partnerships today, partnerships and marriages, whatever we want to talk about. No, it's great. Let's do it. When, when I first bought into my dad's practice, we sat down with a consultant and the way they looked at it, they're like, Hey, if we're going to do this, we have it valued. And whatever that top value is, Brian, like that's what you're going to pay into the partnership.

 

Like you will be 50-50 partner, but you're going to buy in what the practice is worth now. And I think that's absolutely how it should be handled. I think you treat it like a business. When my dad retired a couple of years ago. So then at that point, then when it was time for Scott to buy in, we had the practice evaluated at top dollar and then Scott bought in one third of that. How long has Scott been working? Just as clarity. Cause a lot of doctors get angry with this too, cause they feel like they've worked. They've

 

added to the value of the practice and they don't want to buy their equity that they've done. So Scott's been out of school two years less than I have. So he graduated in 2007, but he had his own practice. One of the five offices was his and then he bought in. We ended up selling off the four offices, kept our flagship office. He bought in as one third partner on that. So he was partners on the rest. But as far as our main practice in Phoenix, he bought in and paid

 

The Dental A Team (35:33.486)

what one third was worth. And then when my dad retired, like we both came in and we bought out my dad's one third for what it was worth. Now at the time, you could say like, I mean, it was like eight and a half million dollar practice. And so you could say of that, probably 45 % of that on an annual basis was maybe 40 % was coming just from my production. So like I could have

 

And I'm not going to lie. I started to go there. I started to be like, wait, I'm to pay top dollar. But essentially what I'm paying for is what I've. Yes. What I myself. Yeah. And like what I've been building. Yeah. And so it's like, well, yeah, over the last several years, like, you know, I've been producing, you know, three, $4 million a year myself for last several years. So that's why now we're at this place where the practice is worth eight and a half. Exactly. And, and so it's like, well, is it fair that I then go in and pay?

 

top dollar, even though a lot of that's coming from me. And I think the answer to that is absolutely it's fair. It's fair because, you know, my dad started in 79, you know, and we bought in along the way. And the fair thing to do is like treat it like a business. And and then there's then there's no regrets. And so, you know, it can seem it can seem unfair from the owner or the senior doctor standpoint.

 

But the last thing you want is a partner that's not motivated or that's resentful. I think it's okay to acknowledge those things, to say like, hey, here's what I'm feeling and here's why. And here's what I spent a lot of time building. And I just need you to know that so you know like what I'm going through and maybe this isn't, it's not easy for me. But then the last thing I'll say is the consultant back in 2008 when I first bought into the practice is like, at the end of the day, both of you should feel like you're getting screwed.

 

And he's like, that's, you know, like you've got a good deal. And that's exactly what happened. I felt like I was paying more than I should have for my half of my dad's practice. And my dad was like, well, I got screwed. Like I should have got more. And, and that's where we knew we were like at a good place. Yeah. No, that's actually really good because I hear so many doctors say this, where I even have a partnership right now that we're working through and the, the doctor buying in, they have actually two locations and the doctor buying in right now, like,

 

The Dental A Team (37:58.365)

doesn't like it's really hard for them to see for the second location to pay for it in two years after they've been working for it. And so I'm actually really happy to hear from you because I don't know what that feels like. I can buy in as a consultant. I can buy in as a team member. I can buy in on all those different levels. I can help close the cases. I can help grow the practice. Like the systems we bring in are exponentially high, but I'm not a producer. And I think the producer piece is the hard piece because you're like, I literally have grown this and now I'm going to buy into that. How did you work through that Brian? Because

 

so many doctors think it's more fair of like, no, no, no, let's get evaluation today. And then in two years, I'll pay for it, or whatnot, or like we take out my production. But like, how did you and your dad reconcile that? Because I look at it, I'm like, yeah, but your dad had a practice and without your dad, you would never have had this opportunity to do it. You can argue with me and say, I could have gone and done on my own. And I always say, then go do it. You're clearly buying in for this. How did you reconcile that? Because I think your space is actually a really hard space to come to.

 

when you're actually buying your own production in that practice, because you are, that's what the true fair value of that business is.

 

Yeah, so we've actually kind of technically done it both ways. So the first time when I bought in, it was like, okay, this is something we're to want to do, but to do it right and to get financing in place, let's scale up. And this is going to happen. You know, we'll sign documents in like six months. But what we're going to do is we're going to value the practice now. And, know, so that Dr. Harris, you're motivated to, you know,

 

Dr. Brian Harris, you're motivated to grow and still build this practice, but you're going to pay for what the fees are now. And every month, we're going to set aside some of that cash instead of paying you on a percentage of production. So let's say you're getting paid 35%, then you'd say, for the next six months, you're actually going to get paid 40%, but 5 % of that will be held back and we'll go towards paying you part of the practice.

 

The Dental A Team (40:01.085)

I think there's ways that you can do it to where the doctor buying in, especially if it's like, this is going to be in two years. You can do a hold back on profits and say, yes, let's do it in two years. Let's value it then. But instead of 35%, let's pay you 40%. You're only going to take 35, but we're going to put 5 % over here. And that's going to grow. And that can be used as your down payment. So it's essentially like the doctor's not.

 

just working their butt off for nothing. They're working towards buying the practice and that extra money is going towards that purchase price. Yeah. And I think you have a really good long vision game. You knew this is where you wanted to be. You knew it was a great place for you. It was with your family. It was something long term. I think you buying in, you had to have a longer term vision for it of seeing, yesterday, like you said, I agree. I had a mentor this summer tell me, they're like,

 

you should always feel like you're being screwed. Both parties need to feel like they're being screwed and it's the perfect deal. Cause if one party feels like they walked out of there like high on the cloud, then it's not the right deal. and like go back to the drawing board until you both feel that way. So I think though kudos to you to have that long-term vision. because I think a lot of people can't see that and it's like, no, no, no, it's so good. Like it might sting today, but just think about it eight years down the line. I mean, what you bought it in 2008 and now we're 2024.

 

That's a pretty long-term vision. Your dad's not in the practice. sounds like your brother's there now. And you guys are now building this to where is today. That's incredible. And Dental A Team listeners, I cannot wait for you to hear Brian and I finish this conversation. Today we talked about partnerships and all the different pieces. And tomorrow we are actually going to cover how to have a successful practice.

 

after you buy in. So get ready, I cannot wait for you guys. We broke this one up into two parts because I think it's that important for you. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Tiff and Dana discuss updating your operations manual in a way that doesn’t completely stress you out. They dive into details about each of the following steps:

1. Establish an ops manual point person

2. Schedule regular updates

3. Delegate sections

4. Set due dates

Just because it’s a big deal doesn’t mean the process can’t be fun and effective.

Episode resources:

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Transcript: 

The Dental A Team (00:01.615)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners I am so excited to be here with you again on this beautiful day. I have Ms. Dana here in the house with me. That literally feels like she's in my house. I wish she were here, but we are houses apart. Dana, how are you today?

 

Dana (00:18.36)

Damn pretty good, how about you?

 

The Dental A Team (00:20.703)

Good, good. We are over here at the time of recording this just getting prepped for the holiday season. Like we're well into it at this point. I feel like holidays have began and parties and gosh, I feel like everything, so many things are going on and I only have one kid. I see this all the time. Dana's got a slew of children over there in her household and her husband and all of these things and Dana, you have just been running around like crazy. You went to a...

 

a recent event where we were very excited for you. Tell us how that went and we did you did was it PBR the bull riding? How did the kids how much do the kids love that?

 

Dana (01:00.131)

Yeah.

 

Well, they loved it. It's something about too, I think of bull riding, right? The goal is to say it on eight seconds, right? So my kids can all pay attention for eight seconds, even the littlest one. So it's something that they will like, we'll all enjoy it. They all pay attention the whole way through. Sometimes it requires snacks for the littlest one, but it was great.

 

The Dental A Team (01:11.591)

Yes!

 

That's fair.

 

The Dental A Team (01:22.959)

I love that. That is a very good point. I feel like we all need to remember that because I don't know how much better our attention spans really get. I know they say like for anything that you post on social media or for for you guys for doing marketing engagement, things should be able to grab someone's attention and hold it within that first like three to five seconds of looking at something. And so I just don't know that our attention spans have gotten any better than that eight second, you know, time frame. So I think the PBR is for everyone.

 

I think that is such a good point of view. I know when we went before my sister and I had gone and I was like, holy cow, they were only up there for like three, four or five seconds. I'm like, it felt though like a long time watching it. I'm like on the back of this crazy animal. Like this is this feels like a long time. So kind of plays into that too, where I know I have practices that

 

I'll work with and I'm like, you know, you've got to be on time. You to your patients back on time. Like if they're here 20 minutes early and you're taking them back on time, if you haven't notified them they were here early or kept them engaged while they were here, they feel as though you're late. And so if they've been here even five minutes earlier on time and you're five minutes behind, it makes such a difference. And sometimes I'll have...

 

practices where we're just so heavily focused on that patient interaction, that patient experience that I will make them do wall sits. They'll be like, yeah, whatever, Tim, you're crazy. And I'm like, cool, let's do this. We're going to do some wall sits. And I don't know if anybody's done a wall sit recently. They are painful.

 

that really puts into perspective how long a minute is. think normally we get to like 25 seconds and people start dropping out. It's a difficult one. So I love that you said that, Dina. That was such a good perspective to add there. PBR is so much fun and it's just the time of the year where we're just like prepping for everything and having so much fun with our families and our friends. And we have our holiday party for Dental A Team coming up, our virtual party. And it's just such a time of year to really

 

The Dental A Team (03:24.851)

look back on all of the things that we've accomplished and we've done so far. I know for me, I've been looking at okay, what did what did I set out to accomplish? What did I actually accomplish? And what did I miss along the way? And a lot of those pieces, I think we miss those goals along the way, because we really didn't have a good plan. I know for me, I miss personal goals or work goals constantly, because I just didn't have enough plans set in motion. I didn't have enough

 

trajectory and I didn't have enough laid out of responsibilities and like really how I was going to accomplish that thing. And today talking about Dana, I pulled you in always for operations manual, but really looking at how we can update the operations manual next year. And when we were prepping for this today, you mentioned really splitting it out and making sure that things are broken apart. And I think that is a huge space that we miss.

 

on the operations manual build out. I have practices, I just talked about practice last week that was like, I don't know, Tip, how do we do this? And we go listen, anybody can do it. You can do it in three months, you can take a year to do it. Anybody can do it in any amount of time as long as there's a plan set in place to get it done. And that plan has to be set in place before the day that you're gonna go start it so that you can see that progress. So taking time out of your day now.

 

to prep and plan for what it might look like to either create from scratch or template. We have our templates, your operations manual if you don't have one or getting it updated for next year. And Dana, you work with practices a lot. I you've actually done operations manual intensives and things like that. You work specifically with practices to build out their operations manual. whether again, we're building it out or we're updating it, what do you see as some of the key points that

 

need to be hit on in order to be successful in the build out and to really feel like gosh this is done for now because it's a work in progress it's always in motion so it's done for now what do you think are some really great tips that they could take away to really get that going for next year?

 

Dana (05:35.584)

Yeah, and I like what you said, first of all, planning and preparing for it because it is a massive project. So one, if you haven't started it or you don't have one, it is a massive project. making sure that you have somebody, you'll utilize your full team to build it, but you're gonna want someone there that is kind of your accountability person or who is spearheading it. So they're setting due dates, they're checking in on team members, they're making sure that...

 

Progress is staying on track or adjusting if we get off track. And they're making sure that time is set aside each week or each month, however you're dividing it. So I think first of all, have your person who's going to kind of spearheaded or they're going to be responsible for it. And then because it is such a big...

 

The Dental A Team (06:03.065)

Uh-huh.

 

Dana (06:18.602)

document or a big project, it is also like a living and breathing document. So we have to update it as things change in a practice because what works for us today may not always work for us and get us the results that we're getting from it today. So also when it comes to updating, planning your updating and who is ultimately responsible for making sure it happens.

 

The Dental A Team (06:39.585)

Yeah, I love that. And that's that space, you guys, that we talk about all the time of that responsibility and practices, owners and doctors and leaders are constantly saying like, gosh, Tiff, Dana, like, how do I hold my team accountable? I don't know how to hold accountability. And I think that's the key to the accountability. The reason we struggle holding people accountable is because we don't actually know what we're holding them accountable to. We're holding them accountable to like some phantom thing that we said was going to get done. But if there's not a person,

 

tied to that thing. There's not a date, there's not a timeline, there's not actionable pieces. It's really hard to feel confident and comfortable in holding someone accountable to it. So if you want to get an operations manual done or updated or what have you, maybe your office manager is responsible for ensuring that it gets done. Now that does not mean that he or she has to do the manual. It means that they need to help parse it out.

 

and they need to help find more responsibilities, delegate out what needs to be done within it, and then they're tracking it they're making sure that it's actually getting done and that those deadlines are being met. And when they're not met, we're revamping and we're saying, okay, fantastic, how do we get back on track? What needs to happen to get us back on track for this? So I think Dana, that's a huge piece of what we miss just in general with a lot of pieces. I know I was just in a practice not too long ago, a few weeks ago.

 

And I was like, great, fantastic. Like, who's responsible for what? And then he said, No, my front office, they don't like that. They like to just like everybody does everything. And I was like, cool, I want everyone to know how to do everything hands down. If you work in the front office, I want you to know how to do it all. But when I don't have confirmations done, who do I go to? He's like, well, it's like whoever can get to it.

 

So then what doesn't actually happen? Confirmations, right? So if we don't have someone, if I don't know that it's specifically my job, I don't know to prioritize that because I've got other things that are coming in. So when we have specific items, whether it's a daily to do, whether it's this operations manual, getting these updates done, if I'm not specifically responsible for something, when other things come into my day, it's really difficult for me to say what's more important.

 

The Dental A Team (08:52.631)

Where does my time need to go? What should I be doing first, second, third? It's difficult for me to prioritize my to-dos, let alone my time. And one of the biggest complaints I get from leaders and from doctors is...

 

a waste of time. They don't know how to prioritize their day. They don't know how to time block in their own schedule. We're trying to learn time blocking in our schedule, but my manager can't time block their schedule. Well, they can't time block their schedule because they don't know what the priorities are. When nothing is a priority, right? When everything is a priority, nothing is a priority. So because everything has now become a priority, because we've got a million things to do, we're just like picking the things that are the easiest, the things we can see the path on.

 

I know I talked last week with an office about procrastination, right? And procrastination is really just things you put off to the last minute because you don't actually feel confident in carrying it through. Studies have shown that it's either missing information or you just, you truly just don't feel confident. You're like, I think I have all the pieces, but I don't know how to do this. It's not easy. And so we push it off to the end, which I think Dana is a huge piece of that operations manual.

 

The operations manual gets pushed off to the end because we don't actually have a clear picture of how to complete it. We don't know what done looks like. We don't know how to get there. And it's this huge undertaking that everybody's like, cool, go write your protocol. So it's like, what? I have like 30,000 things I do in a day. How am I supposed to write all that down? So I love that you said really someone responsible. And so when it comes to updates data, you're saying the same thing, like someone is responsible.

 

And then how do you suggest that that person really delegates out those pieces that need to be done?

 

Dana (10:37.004)

Yeah, and I think first of all, I do usually recommend, go through the whole thing yearly and look for updates. So if you're looking for a cadence for this yearly, and I think this is a great time as we're planning and prepping for next year, if you haven't done it for this year, add it to your goals for next year, get it on the calendar. And then with that,

 

The Dental A Team (10:42.765)

Yeah.

 

Dana (10:56.962)

having that person utilize your team, right? You can assign one person to go through each section. You can divide and conquer and say, okay, you you're gonna review and make sure all setups are correct. You're gonna review and make sure, you know, all of our lab tracking and all of that is correct. And you can break it up that way. But basically assign team members to a section of the operations manual and kind of go through it in my checklist is.

 

Do we still do that thing? Do we have, is there a protocol in there and is that thing updated? Do we still do it that way? And if it is updated, great. If it isn't, then if you're the one to review it, you're the one to being responsible to update it. So usually just kind of setting that standard, break it up amongst the team. A lot of times it'll be the team leads that do it or.

 

The Dental A Team (11:40.568)

Yeah.

 

Dana (11:48.674)

you know, just somebody who you know has the capacity to do it at that time. And then just setting the standard that if you review it and it needs updated, you're also the one to update it. And then again, you can set due dates for those things. So, you know, hand me three updates each week, every Friday, until all of our updates are done or all updates done by an assign a date there. And then two, besides just yearly, right?

 

Because we've taken time to get everything in writing and we've written all of these protocols, oftentimes once you have that project done, setting the standard that when we update anything, we are also updating the written version of it as well so that when you get to this year mark and you're going to do your updates, it isn't so cumbersome because you have along the way when you've updated things or added things, made sure to get those pieces in writing throughout the year.

 

The Dental A Team (12:30.639)

Mm-hmm.

 

The Dental A Team (12:45.121)

Yeah, I love that idea. think that's brilliant. And one piece you talked about there was really saying like this number done by every Friday. I know in my in my work, when we're doing projects and content creation and things for Dental A Team, something that really helps me so this could be for doctors and team members like alike, something that really helps me is okay, I've got to have three updates, five updates done by Friday. So which ones am I going to update? So if I have a list,

 

So you guys within the operations manual templates have.

 

really that table of contents, right? So I would go through the table of contents myself if I knew that was my goal was to have X amount done by Friday. And I would say awesome this week, I'm doing these five. So I would piecemeal out the ones that I'm doing to make sure that it gets done because I feel like for me personally, going into it with that secure of a plan and that like narrowed in, it makes me

 

my brain just works differently, it's easier for me to see how to get to the end and I bust through it a lot faster. Whereas if I just go there and I'm like, I'll do five today, I'm like, this one, well, this one. so honestly, the time that it takes when I get there to figure out which ones I'm going to do, slows me down from getting them completed and then I end up behind. So if I just take a couple minutes, maybe 20 minutes to just dive into it and say, okay.

 

for the next four weeks, these are the five I'm gonna do each week, makes it much easier to like, just get them done as they come up. And making sure we all know where that living breathing document is and everyone has access to update it. That's huge, I know. We're talking about, know, creating and updating these new scorecards for all of our clients so that 2025 just is all wrapped in this pretty, bow.

 

The Dental A Team (14:37.763)

But I thought this morning and you just reminded me as well, like, gosh, we have a protocol for scorecards. So what happens right is we'll onboard new team members into a practice or into the Dental A Team or wherever we onboard a new person and then we're like, wait, shoot, that's so old. Like, please do not use that. Or they'll come ask a question and they're like, hey, I don't see this anywhere. Like, this is what the protocol tells me to do. But I'm not finding this program. Is this that's happened to me where I'm like,

 

we don't use that program anymore, just disregard. And then it's like, great, well, now how much of this can I trust as the person learning? Like, okay, well, if this piece of three, if one of three is wrong, now I'm probably subconsciously at least doubting the rest of this. And so I'm confused, I'm not remembering which ones I'm supposed to use, not to use. So making sure we go back and do those things is huge. And we do that even here in our company.

 

I know as we go through and things will pop up as you guys are onboarding new team members, which you will if you're growing, you're going to onboard new team members. And we know in this market, we're going to onboard new team members. So those things will come up. But I think Dana, your point to making sure that it's prepped and it's planned, setting a date maybe as a team to really get together and say, okay, guys,

 

we're going to delegate these out. So who's responsible ultimately for the operations manual getting done, setting an appointment, a meeting to say, okay, we're going to delegate all of these pieces out and then really having that just dates set in place. I think if it's updates, Dana, maybe I'm crazy, but I think if it's updates, you can probably get that done in like 45 to 60 days at the longest. And then Dana...

 

Just like maybe January, I'm like, shoot, is the time, guys. We're doing our freaking operations manual. This is going to be it. I typically will say to clients, let's be realistic and let's say like six to eight months, maybe even next year, and we'll help you to get these delegated out and like timelineed. What are you saying, as well with your clients, a good timeline for people to be realistic with?

 

Dana (16:28.75)

Thank you.

 

Dana (16:51.342)

I agree with you. think can it be done in three months? Yes. But it's like we are putting a lot of effort and a lot of time dedicated to that. So if we don't have a lot of time that we can block or dedicate to that, then I say realistically six to eight months. And even then it's still a lot of, it's still a lot of dedicated time.

 

The Dental A Team (17:10.103)

Yeah.

 

Dana (17:10.682)

But I feel like that is you can kind of build that into some downtime you can build that into so maybe those days where doctors at CE and team has some some time to fill or some Project time so I think ideally Realistically plan on spending six to eight months because it's a big project to tackle well worth it, but it's a big project

 

The Dental A Team (17:28.655)

It is.

 

Totally. I love that idea you just said of like CE, where doctors are out and that's oftentimes there's so many team members that want to still get the hours in, especially dental assistants, even that there's not always a lot for them to do. For the front office, it's very easy to say, okay, great, these are the calls, are the end of year benefit letters I want you to send, these are all the pieces. But that's a great space for hygienists and dental assistants to really be able to have some downtime. Because I do think being, you know, having that dedicated time to get those things done.

 

is beneficial. So I love that.

 

So I think you guys really just looking at what needs to happen within the operations manual and prepping and planning for it. Make sure you've got that meeting on on deck for it. Make sure you've got someone responsible for it and you guys have a plan built out. I would honestly if it were me, I was the office manager. I knew this was coming up. I probably have a plan built out before I got to the meeting and not just like, guys, this is what we're doing. It's we're building it together, getting the buy in from it, but making sure that you're not asking them to build out the plan because that'll be a much longer.

 

meeting. So make sure you've got it built out, you know what you want, you know what your expectations are, and then going into the meeting of can we meet these expectations, is this something we can accomplish together, will help to get that done. 45 to 60 days I think is plenty of time for updates and I think six to eight months is usually plenty of time for creation, but remember done is better than perfect and with the operations manual I am here to tell you

 

The Dental A Team (19:00.579)

There is no perfect. Okay, guys, there is no perfect. And there is never a done. There's a done for right now. And then there's an update later. It is a living, breathing document. So just keep that in mind. Don't be too hard on yourselves and make realistic goals for your teams. Dana, thank you so much. I think this is a huge, huge piece for them to really get prepped for next year. And you guys, I want you to take these notes. I want you to take these pieces and just go have fun with it. Figure out what needs to happen.

 

Make it fun, make it a big deal and get that sucker done. Q1 2025.

 

In this powerful episode, Kiera is joined by John Jackson, executive director of Defy Ventures, Utah. John shares his history as a criminal, the time he spent incarcerated for his crimes, and how he found the power to change.

Kiera and John met through a Tony Robbins’ Business Mastery earlier this year, and Defy Ventures is one of the nonprofits the Dental A-Team is donating to through its Live to Give program this year.

About John: Correctional officials once labeled John “the worst of the worst.” As he served 18 years in prison, John rose through the ranks of his gang by honing his leadership skills. After four years in solitary confinement, John realized that building his criminal resume would only lead him to life—and death—in prison. He made the dangerous and unpopular decision to step away from criminal activity while incarcerated at Pelican Bay, a notorious supermax prison in California.

Since his release from prison in 2019, John served as the director of sales and fundraising at Hustle 2.0, helping to scale the organization from two prisons in California to 700+ jails and prisons in 47 states, serving 13,000+ incarcerated men, women, and youth. He co-authored 11 books. The curriculum provides holistic rehabilitation and healing for people in America’s most dangerous prisons, offering a pathway to college. John delivered a TEDx at Cornell University about ending the generation cycles of incarceration.

 

Today, John serves as the executive director of Defy Ventures, Utah, leveraging entrepreneurship to help incarcerated people transform their lives. He uses his story of courage and transformation to create hope for those who have been written off and forgotten by society.

Episode resources:

Learn more about Defy Ventures

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:00.234)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. if you don't know, Dental A Team has a portion of our company called Live to Give. And every single year, our company goes and looks for organizations or places that I believe in that I feel can give a greater impact in this world. We've done a Make-A-Wish for a child who had stomach cancer one year. We have done Stuff for Santa within our communities. We have done

 

scholarships for people. And every single year we did a coat drive with all of our clients and we were able to give so many coats to cold families. And this year I met an incredible man named John from Defy Ventures. And John was an incarcerated criminal for 17 years. He was at maximum security. He was in solitary confinement for four years and he was sent to Pelican Prison, which is the number one like federal prison in California where it literally is like a resume builder for prisoners, but that is like the top of the top.

 

He was in gangs and he has actually come out of prison and his five years since his release date. And he has a company called the Five Ventures where literally they help incarcerated criminals turn their skills that they've learned in prison into something good and to build businesses. And it's such an incredible company. It's probably not the one that I ever imagined that I'd be recommending or talking to you about, but.

 

I'm bringing John on the podcast. John is a dear friend. met him and I just was so inspired by him of who he is as a person. And then also if you want no affiliation with our company with them, but just a cause of Live To Give where we donated as well. But you are able to sponsor an incarcerated criminal if you want to be able to give them the entrepreneurship skills and you're able to give back to an organization that I believe is trying to stop generational crime. The US has actually more in cart.

 

our 5 % of the world's population and yet we have 25 % of the world's crime. And just watching how our world is going, if there are people like John who were incarcerated themselves and have been able to turn and become a force for good and to be able to do incredible things for this world, it might be something incredible for you. I am literally so excited to bring you guys today's guest. This is someone that I met a couple of months ago at Tony Robbins Business Mastery.

 

The Dental A Team (02:19.04)

little plug we did freaking win john so we are the winners will show you our trophies. Yeah, bring the trophies up. But john was actually the reason that we won and we were helping support his company which is defy ventures. But john has such an interesting story. And literally I had the most life changing experience talking to john and so I'm so excited to welcome john I there's like so much more I want to say about your intro but I'm let you tell your story more than me enjoying you. But welcome to the show john how are you today?

 

I'm doing awesome. I have a huge smile on my face because I'm really excited. First is good to see you and second to be on your podcast to get to share with you. Getting to share that win on stage at Tony Robbins was definitely a highlight of my life. So thank you for supporting us and all in pushing us to promote while we were there as well. And I think you're back to back. You're on the back to back winning team, I think, two years in a row now. We're technically three for three, John, but

 

our win this time was the first one I got the trophy for. So thanks for making the trophy happen. Like I won them all the times, but, and it's funny because my friend that I had first, which some of the podcast listeners may have heard Pierce, Pierce had said trophy and we took a picture and he's like, here, I'm just going to take it home and then I'm going to ship it to you. And I was like, okay, Pierce, that's great. Cause Pierce is like freaking seven feet tall. So of course when Tony brought out the trophies, he like grabbed one. I'm not quite as tall.

 

And so I was like, no problem, Piers. And then Piers did a freaking podcast with me a little while ago. And those of you who watched it, Piers has his trophy right behind us on the podcast. And I was like, I remember that trophy, Piers. John, like this was like, and this we're talking, that was 2019. So this was five years in the beginning. But John, okay, Defy Ventures, you guys, we're gonna go into prison talk. John, I need you to tell your story. I'm gonna let you tell it. I'm gonna ask you like a thousand questions.

 

I literally felt like I interviewed you before the win. didn't know we were going to win at business mastery. For those of who don't know business master is an event that Tony Robbins puts on and you go to this event. This is actually in 2019. I went there literally skyrocketed Dental A Team to where we are today. but I learned so much about business and what you're doing is you're at this conference. It's running from like, gosh, 10 AM until 2 AM in the morning. Like it's insane. And while you're there learning content, you're also supposed to be building a business within. It is like the most exhausting thing that you've ever done.

 

The Dental A Team (04:38.688)

And John's business was the one that we did this year of DeFi Ventures. And it was so cool. But John, tell your story because I'm not going to do you justice other than the fact that like this man came from one of the craziest prisons and I'm just beyond blown away of who you are as a person and the background story that you have. So John, tell us all like your little history, not little. It's like nuts. And now we're sitting here. You're a free man today on a podcast with me. Like literally the irony and the magic of your life is just inspiring to me.

 

Thank you. Thank you. I just reiterate, I really am so grateful that we got to share that experience and Business Mastery has been, it has been a force accelerator for me as well. And whether it's through fundraising or just growing the impact that I want to have. So I'm really grateful that I get to do that and get to be a part of that experience. But yes, I'd love to share a part of my story. And I just start from, you're to have some highs and some lows here, but I promise we'll get to the end of it and it's a happy ending.

 

but it started, like the most striking memories for me, start when I was 11 and it's, you know, from my mom kissing me, tucking me in a bed, kissing me good night and her going to work. she was a waitress at Denny's. worked the graveyard shift. So I get up the next morning and I'm on my way to school and on my way to school, I see my mom's car parked on the side of the road and I go look in and it was her murder scene. So that was.

 

I was 11 years old. I never knew who my father was. So after my mom was murdered, I went to live with my aunt. And my aunt was a drug dealer. She was an entrepreneur. And she was a really good entrepreneur. She just used her skills in the wrong way. But when I was 17 years old, I was in the car with her. And we both get pulled over. She's got drugs in the car. And I can remember the cop.

 

walking up and my aunt leaning over and telling me, if the cops find the drugs, tell them they're yours. She was already on probation. So her getting caught with drugs again was going to send her to prison. So I already lost my mom, right? I didn't have a father. I didn't want to lose my aunt too on top of that. So when the cops found the drugs, I lied and I said they were mine. And my aunt watched as I was handcuffed and put in back of a cop car. Now's my first time being arrested.

 

The Dental A Team (07:06.285)

got to jail, 17 years old slap on the wrist, right? If my first time being arrested, I get released about two weeks later, but something that my aunt did was she praised me. She's like, good job. This is what you do for your family and you protect your family. And looking back now, I know like it's the opposite. She's supposed to protect me. First. not, I'm not, I'm not bashing her for selling drugs or doing anything like that, but having me take the drug charge. was, that was something very different.

 

but I knew at that time, I'm all in like a criminal lifestyle. This is what I'm going to do. And before the end of that year, I'd committed four armed robberies and I've been convicted of seven families. at 17, I was sent to a maximum security prison in California. So that's, that's kind of like, that's another like pivotal moment in my life is going to prison at 17. Yeah. Okay. There's more that comes and John like sitting here, I remember, so I meet you.

 

Yeah, I had some like biases. You were we're at Tony Robbins, our mutual friend told us about you. And you just told me some things that Tony Robbins you're like curious like K cradle the grave. Like that's the prison lifestyle. So at 17, had you graduated high school? Or were you still a senior in high school? Or school? I dropped out of school. Seventh grade is the last grade I completed. Stop for real. You see your mom. You're like I'm out your aunt probably different lifestyle.

 

Okay, so 17, you're starting to do all these things. So how does this work? Tell me from 17 to basically like, how what happens next? You like you get involved? I'm guessing criminal lifestyle? Like, how did you decide to go from like, Johnny from the block? was like literally like going to school. Now you're like in full blown criminal, but I might you're gonna take care of your family have no father, have no mother like this is the family. So you're going to adapt to family life. What happens after you're sent to like, how long are you in prison?

 

And by the way, you guys, I did ask John of anything that, cause I would, I'm so nosy. I'm so curious about this. And when we were talking at Tony Robbins before we ended up winning, I thought it was actually really awesome. Cause I got to hear your entire story even more so. And then we go on stage and we win. And it even more of a magical moment of like, I didn't feel like we won the conference. I feel like we won your life and like to see you have a very different life than like the path that you were on is why I wanted you on the podcast. Because I remember when we were talking, John,

 

The Dental A Team (09:33.453)

like I had actually had a really rough summer. and I had had like some really hard times. And I remember looking at you and I'm like, John loves himself so much. And you have told me some stories and I'm like, if this man can learn to love himself, like you're such an example for all of us of like, you don't have to be on the path that you were set on. No matter what we've done in life, like we can still have these happy lives.

 

And I just wanted to bring you on for like hope for people, but also like to learn from your stamina and your grit. And then we are also talking about how the prison and the mob, you're like freaking brilliant at systems. Like the businesses they run are freaking genius, just a little bit on the wrong side. okay. 17. have a question real quick though. have a question. You said you had some biases. can you share, are you comfortable sharing what some of those were? Like what do you envision of a person who's formerly incarcerated or gang member or any of things? What pops up in your mind?

 

I mean, it's a great question, John. And like, it's slightly embarrassing, but I think it's real. You're a male, I'm a female. I'm told that you're coming here and you just came out of maximum prison. How long has it been? Like what? Two years? Five years. Year two, five years. But there's a question of like, has this man really changed? Or is he going to, and like, especially as a female, like I'm very cautious of who I spend time with. And at certain conferences, full transparency, I have had men.

 

approach me in ways that are just not appropriate. And I felt uncomfortable around men at even some of the conferences we go to, which I think is just a female's life. And I think a lot of female would probably feel that way. So when our mutual friend Casey told us that he's bringing you to this conference, John, I'm not gonna lie to you. I was like, I'm gonna have my like guard up of like, I'm sure he's a changed man. But at the same time, I also don't want to be dumb and naive, especially as a female and like you came from maximum prison security. And so

 

I know we can have these honest conversations. And then I met you and who you are as a person. And I was like, this guy deserves everything in the entire world. And that's actually freaking what Defy Adventures is about is like helping incarcerated criminals have a life that's real. like, John, like it is scary because some people like the world is manipulative. The world. want to say about that. me say it's embarrassing. I don't think I hope you don't feel that way because I think what I what I see in that is or what I hear from that. That's

 

The Dental A Team (11:51.501)

That's much of what society paints with it. They just take a brush and they just paint it movies and TV and politics and anything else. They're really good at othering and saying, this is just who everybody is, right? Every single one of them are this terrifying, scary human being. And that's just not the case. But we've been so conditioned to believe that. And then you also just to like...

 

just to affirm your experiences, that is true. As a female, you go to these conferences and men are, put you in uncomfortable situations and that's a nice way to put it. Just total sleazeballs, I guess, can be unprofessional and not nice. And you think, well, if that's a business person, if that's a CEO, if that's this person, what's this person coming out of prison gonna be like? I mean, it's not wrong. It's accurate.

 

And it's also scary. How do you know to trust them? Right? Because criminals are literally built upon lies. They're built upon conniving. mean, criminals are like the best salespeople you'll ever meet. And so it's like, how do you trust that this person's truly genuine and that they are changed and that they're not going to like rob me or rape me or steal from me or like find out where I live and send a gang after me. Like I think those are real things, but I also think, like you said, a lot of it's the media.

 

And I also think that that's why it's hard for incarcerated people when they come out to even have a chance in a shot at life, which is why I think it really is cradle to grave, like you said, because society just throws you right back into that. And like there's stories that you hear of people that are in their hometowns, they leave and they become these incredible people, they come back to the hometown and people put them right back into the shadows that they were in before they left. And they never amount to anything. And I actually feel like that's very similar for you, but like,

 

How do we trust in society of like, are you a good person? Like, are you good or are you not good? I wanna give you the benefit of the doubt, but I also don't want to like be burned and regret my decisions. I think there's ways to do that, right? I think if we imagine like who would wanna be known for the worst decisions they ever made, like if all of our stuff was ever laid bare, I doubt we would ever trust, there would be very little trust in this world if every decision that you had ever made, you, myself or anyone.

 

The Dental A Team (14:14.829)

every lie you ever told, everything you ever was just like, hey, before we start having a conversation, I just want you to read this extended list of all the bad choices I've made. And then let's see if you're to invest in me as a person or you can get to know me. People would probably kick us out. It wouldn't. But it's our judgment, right? And we can protect ourselves. We don't need to give people our addresses and invite them to our homes or anything like that. It's not.

 

But it does mean that like as an entrepreneur or people who can hire and who own companies, you can interview people. We have processes for that to check background checks and ways to check and see where people are at and see about their transformation and test them before we bring them closer into our fold. No, absolutely. I think it's brilliant. And that's honestly why I brought you on because I think sometimes the biggest critic is ourselves too. so yes, we can be judgmental of other people, but like you said,

 

I mean, we all have laundry lists that we wouldn't be proud of. I just think criminals are painted in such a bad light. And I mean, for good reason, right? Like there are things that are done that shouldn't be done. But I also think that like you said something so paramount when we were talking in Florida and you said like, because I remember I asked you point blank, was like, John, how can you love yourself with everything that's happened? And maybe you can answer that question for people because this hit me to my core. And I was like, we're gonna have the podcast once so can re listen to this over and over.

 

But two, think so many people feel this way. I mean, you've done some pretty heinous things in your life, and yet you still love who you are, and you're still one of the happiest people. The light and life that you exude is just contagious. So how did you come to that? How did you come to that realization of, yeah, I've done all these things, but I still love me as John, and I love who I am, and I'm proud of who I am? Yeah. So two things. can have remorse over the things that I've done. I have done.

 

bad things in my life that have hurt a lot of people and caused a lot of harm and destruction. And first it starts with ownership. But yes, I did those things. It doesn't matter that I was a kid, right? was a dangerous kid. So full radical ownership. But yes, I committed robberies, I hurt people, and I continued that pattern and that behavior while I was incarcerated. The second part is I wouldn't be who I am today had I not done those things. Had I not spent 18 years in prison, had I not done

 

The Dental A Team (16:38.347)

had I not lived that life, I wouldn't be able to use my experiences to serve other people, to help you, Kiera, see that, not all formerly incarcerated people are bad. Like we are, like, please don't paint us all with the same brush. So I love myself. I get to use my story. get to use my experiences to show other people, hey, you can make it to the other side of this. There is a way out. It won't be easy, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. And I get to show other people who have never experienced that world, look.

 

Not everyone is that way. If we give them a chance and we invest in people, can be great. Is that some word on the lines with my answer? Yeah, exactly. I also love like, John, I'm curious, Kay, so you're incarcerated at 17. Is that when you were sent in? How long was your sentence at 17? It was 16 years originally. 16 years originally. Did you get out?

 

And then back in, because you said you were 18 years in prison, how did this work out? Or did you like just get more time extended to you? I got more time added to my sentence. So when I was originally incarcerated, it was for a 16 year prison sentence. And from the start, when I got to prison, I think you can imagine, actually, so incarcerated 17, made it to prison at 18. And like, it was a consecutive sentence. But when I got there, I engaged in violence, I joined a gang, I did all the things that I shouldn't have been doing.

 

And that got time added onto my sentence, which was like getting, I four years of solitary confinement for my gang involvement. And it just kept piling up and piling up. But I didn't at the time, I don't have that long term, that foresight to see like, I'm 17, 18 years old. It's 17, 18 years from now, I'm still going to be in prison. That doesn't make any sense. That doesn't register for a 17 or 18 year old at the time.

 

So basically your life of crime was pretty much just a year of your life. Like if we like really boil it all down, I mean, and it was probably a pretty wild year of your life. And I think getting into the prison, it's like perfect. And then like you and I talked about games. I was getting in trouble. That's somewhat accurate. I got sent to prison because of what happened in that short time period. But I committed more crimes, although I was committing crimes all the way up until my last conviction was actually in 2014.

 

The Dental A Team (19:00.589)

where I felt the conviction. And that's while I was incarcerated. like, I hadn't changed. I was still doing the same things all the way up until 2017 is when I made a pretty radical change in my life. Interesting. Okay. Like I said, I brought John on here. I'm so curious because it's so fascinating to me. Like, I think people just assume that they're going to be how it is.

 

Like, so when you got put into prison, did you plan like, got it, I'm gonna be here for 18 years, I'm gonna get out and be back in here. Or like, what was the thought process of you're being incarcerated? You've sentenced, you had four years of solitary confinement, and you're still doing things like, is it just like life? that like the job? Is that like the status within the That's what you said right there, it's life. Like, it's like, you know what you signed up for. It's like what you signed up for, it's part, it's just part of the deal, right? Like going to solitary confinement.

 

Like, so basically when you go to prison and you join the gang, the expectation is like, well, blood in, blood out, you know, until the casket drops. And that is taken literally. It's like, you're in. There is no, there usually is no way out. It is until the casket drops that you die. You like you're born. And for many people, this is an inheritance. They're, you know, they're third or fourth generation gang members. And it's like, I'm going to die in prison one day. That is just, this is what it is. like, Hey, like.

 

You know what you signed up for. Right. Like that's the compelling feature. This is where I'm at. There's really nothing I can do to change it. So let's have like the best ride. And also like within gangs, like you're being praised for doing these things. So you're getting the reinforcement. You're getting the kudos. Like your aunt told you after you come out for being drugs, like that's what you do for your family. it's like, and I mean, we're raised, we're raised by society. We're raised by what people teach us. And so I'm curious. Okay. So now you're there for your school.

 

Tell me about solitary confinement. Like, is that awful? I just need to know. Like, how is It is awful. It's awful practice that we use in the United States and we use it on children as young as 13, 14 years old. And it's been deemed by, it's been deemed human torture to put someone in an eight by 12 concrete cell and like no human contact. It's hard to explain. It's hard for people to imagine. They think that,

 

The Dental A Team (21:22.039)

TVs or something will show you that, it's 23 hours a day. That's not true. It's 24 hours a day. And even when you go out to recreational yard outdoor activities, it's just another cell outside of your cell. It's not like a real yard. You don't really go out to see the sun or the grass. It's another concrete cell, but it's just a little bit bigger. that's also...

 

like the grit and the determination and resilience that like, it becomes a challenge for most people who are back there. It's like, well, you're not going to freaking break knees. Like, so like we used to learn, we learned it's the cell faces. If you just imagine that like right now you're in a cell, there's a wall, there's a small window that faces a wall, maybe like four or five feet away. And that's what you look at for years. And that's really all you can see.

 

but there are seven other people in a unit with you that all face the wall. So you can talk to people. We learned to play chess. We play chess by memory. Like we have chess boards and we can play by memory, playing chess with each other. We play games and you find ways to, reading, working out, cleaning. It's where you, I really learned a lot of the discipline that I have today was learned in prison, in solitary confinement.

 

reading, writing book reports, working out every day, getting up on time, having a routine and discipline. I learned all of that in prison through the gang. you feel like, okay, tell me more about this. Do you feel like that routine and all the things you learned from that, like you just said, there was the discipline, getting up, like you had to basically probably build your own routine. I'm guessing the prison, like you're in confinement. No, we have one built for us. So the gang has one built for you. You get up, you have a roll call in the morning. It's like, hey everybody, good morning, time to get up.

 

And you have a workout, I clean my cell, I get a towel every day, a little shampoo, clean my cell down, make sure my cell is really clean, practice good hygiene, shower, brush my bird bath in there. You have a sink with water, so you just bird bath in your cell and read, study, workout. These things are mandatory every day. These aren't options. Okay. So then it like, which is probably good, it instills it.

 

The Dental A Team (23:38.173)

a routine for you, which I think is really paramount in life. like John, you said, like, where did your shift happen? Were you in solitary confinement? Or when you're in confinement? Are you just planning your next crime? Because like within the prison, that's where crimes a lot of times happen. You and I were talking like, I was like, the mafia and prison, like if it could be used for good, honestly, the criminal mind if it can be used for good is beyond brilliant.

 

they have SOPs, they have a pecking order, like they've got an org chart, like you and I were talking like, yep, you get a handbook when you show up to the gang, like it's wild to me how they run it. They they're profitable. They know their margins. They know what they need to do. They send people out there. They praise them for work well done. And I'm like, if we can just take that and apply it to business, like it's absolutely brilliant. It's just unfortunately done in a way that's not like great outcomes. So how did you change? Like, was it in solitary confinement? Was it like you said you had a radical shift in 2017?

 

you're still committing crimes from within prison. Like how did you change John? Because so many people I think would argue like you don't really change. But I remember I attended, I'm very fascinated by addictions. I'm fascinated by the way the mind works. And I actually went to this addiction course for a while and they said you don't change until you're like rock bottom. Like everybody will hit a rock bottom and it's oftentimes not for family. It's not for life. Like, but everybody has a rock bottom that you hit. And when you hit it, you actually change. like,

 

A lot of people don't even get there. So how did you change? Do you agree with that? Do you disagree with that? I do disagree with that. Somebody has to hit a rock bottom. There's a quote by a homo-incredible guy named Chris Wilson. says, rock bottom isn't a place, it's a state of mind. Interesting. Like you can't go find this place anywhere. But it's in me. It's a state of mind. And it's a decision that I don't want to be in this place anymore. But there's also a really good book that I encourage people to read. called The Stages of Change.

 

in the trans theoretical model is how change actually happens. And there's different stages of it. There's like, I won't go through the whole thing, but there's like, I'm to, I'm blanking on it right now, but there's like, I'm not, there is no problem. I'm not the problem. And actually you're the problem. That's like the first stage of change. And the next one is like, you have awareness, like, there's a problem, but I'm not willing to do anything about it. I like what's happening right now.

 

The Dental A Team (25:56.749)

So there's these different stages of change. I subscribe more to that model that people will make. We make changes in our life in stages. And for me, had started making, I made a radical shift, but that shift didn't happen overnight. But there was like that spark for me. And it was right after, was when I got sent to Pelican Bay State Prison. And after I out of solitary confinement, I was supposed to be going home.

 

but it was, it was the day before my birthday, was supposed to be going home. And instead of going home, I was starting another four year consecutive sentence for a crime I committed. And that was the day when I decided I was like, all right, something has to change, in my life. But also like I've been doing, I've been living this life for 15 years. I don't know what else to do. But what did happen was I sat, I stayed back from yard, which is in prison.

 

You typically don't do that. Yard is mandatory. Just in case a riot or something kicks off, we need everybody on the yard. But I stayed in and that was the first time that I remember ever crying in prison for 15 years. I'd never cried. I lost my uncle, I lost my brother, lost so many people throughout my, and never cried. But I cried that day and that was the first time that I remember really wanting to go home. I was like, this is it. If I don't make a change in my life, I'm gonna die in here. And I believe that I...

 

I had belief that I was meant for more than dying in prison. And that was the big shift for me was I just believe me that I was meant for more than in prison. Insane. And I think it's so incredible. like, okay, so we talk about it it sounds very fairy tale, right? Like we have this moment where we're meant for more, which John, I'm so glad you said that because I think so many other people have that. And that's why I wanted you on the podcast. This is I love talking to you. Because I'm like, gosh, if John can do all these things and realize he's meant for more.

 

Like so many other people were so hard on ourselves and like know we're all meant for more. So tell me like, how did you process it? Also being in a gang. I remember when I met you, I was like, I don't even know how you're out in your life because like leaving a gang is usually death. Like there's no way and you're in a very prominent gang. Like how did you, how do you change? How do you get out from a gang where you're like usually killed if you leave a gang? That's why people don't love gangs.

 

The Dental A Team (28:17.805)

But they're so prompt, like they're good businesses, they're good recruiters, like and young boys and like, it's all the things that young, it's all the things that boys and like men want war money, like it's all, it's all there. It's all there. meets the needs, it meets those needs. do a good job. Those needs. We were talking and you're like, they're great at recruiting. Like they literally list off everything you want. They recruit you when you're young and you're not making like intelligent decisions and then you're in it for life. So

 

You go through this moment where you realize you're meant for more. How do you change? how do you change? How do you get out of a gang? Because I think so many people, you were facing probably one of the biggest uphill battles of any person I have ever met, John. Like, I'm probably gonna write a book about you. Like, I've never written a book, but gosh, like your story is just so fascinating to me because I think so many people would just feel like there's no hope and yet you found hope when there was no hope. Like, I would say that most people would be able to find. So walk me through, how do you transform into the man you are today?

 

So it was more action than it was anything else. was like, to me, it was coming out and letting my homeboys know. First, giving up positions that I had in prison. I gave up, I was an entrepreneur in prison. I used to run every single business you could imagine. I ran gambling pools, I sold alcohol, I sold drugs, I sold cell phones. I created markets where there wasn't one. That was how I all my money in prison. And I stopped doing that. That was- is also so wild. Can we just pause there? I remember I was talking and it's like-

 

How do you even do this? And you're like, well, you get to know people. It's like freaking sales in prison. You get to know all the guards. You notice they're having a bad day. You get them to bring this up in. Like it is wild. And I remember we were talking, there was someone else in the group with us and they're like, well, all this happens in prison. I'm like, yeah, I even know this. Like they're freaking run businesses within the prison. And it is like multimillion billion. Like it is a very thriving business. They're very large. They're very scalable businesses. And like I was small time. I made good money, but I, I,

 

For example, I would run gambling pools. It was on football, baseball, basketball. I even ran gambling pools on the Oscars and what's that? I forgot the name of show, but the Bachelor. I used to run gambling pools in the Bachelor. They would pick who's gonna win and all I would do is take a cut of the money. And I was just a facilitator for people to be able to gamble. But when I would get to a new facility or a new yard, I would undercut whoever was already running, whoever was running these pools.

 

The Dental A Team (30:43.917)

I would just undercut them and I would over deliver. They're charging $2 for a ticket. I charge $1 for a ticket. They take 15%. I take 10%. And I put them out of business and then I come back and hire them. And I hire them as like a kind of like a franchise. It's like, okay, now you're gonna do it for me in your building and I'm gonna give you 2 % of the cut. All you gotta do is pass out the football tickets and collect the money and give it to me and I'm gonna pay you. Okay, but how do you do that? Now I get killed in prison. Like that's not a joke.

 

Like I feel like you come in, there's a top dog and you take them down. They usually take you out. is it just because you- There's rules. That's where the rules come in. There's so many rules. Yeah. There's like, don't just get to go out and fight people whenever you want. You don't just get to go out and assault people whenever you want. Like it doesn't work. Like it does not. That's movies. And also that's also California. California is very organized, very structured. So it's like, Hey, you just got put out of business. Like too bad for you. Like nobody's gonna like-

 

They can get upset whatever they want, like that's not going to, that's violence is violence is always 99.9 % of the time is always predetermined. It's not random. Even when it's against an officer, it is not random. There is a high likelihood that that officer came in. I'm not justifying why that happens. not saying there's any reason why anyone should ever be assaulted. but when you're living in that life, there are

 

in that criminal mindset, there are justifications. And I've seen officers come in and take someone's family photos and throw them in the toilet and tear them up. And it's like, well, you just destroyed something that meant really a lot to that person. And they believe that their only way of justifying that, rectifying that is by going out and assaulting them. So it doesn't happen. No one wakes up one morning and be like, I feel like going out and stabbing someone. That doesn't happen.

 

Because it's a business. It's a plan like and as gross as that is you and I were talking about this and I'm like, I'm fascinated by business and I'm fascinated by criminal minds. Because like, it is a business and it is a livelihood. It's a lifestyle. Like this is how you get like all of us do things for money for our lives. And if that's all you've ever been taught, it's very hard to know different case. So you're the entrepreneur in there, you're undercutting all the other businesses. Like how do you change and also how do you even tell the gang that you're not going to be a part of it? That's like so

 

The Dental A Team (33:03.957)

a foreign, you must be really good at sales or something, John, because I feel like, like that's just not heard of. So it's a couple of things. So first, like some of the, the, some of my older own boys who are in prison, who are internet men in prison for a very long time and have a lot of influence, they were my mentors. They, and with proximity is power, right? So like I was around people who have a lot of power and, they believed in me.

 

And eventually, I let people know, like, hey, I'm not doing that anymore. And it was right around that time that Defy Ventures came to Pelican Bay as well, which is an entrepreneurship program. And it really came in at just the right time because I didn't know what to supplement. There's a huge gap in my life, and I don't know what else to put, but then Defy came and was like, okay, well, here's how you can start to use these skills in a positive way. And that was really what helped to self-solidify my change was I was able to help guys. I graduated from the program.

 

I became a facilitator and a leader within the program. And now guys, instead of coming to me for alcohol and phones and everything else, they're coming to me for resume feedback, business ideation feedback. They're coming to me for positive things and how can they get involved in programs? So it's like I was taking myself out of the negative conversations around the gang and taking myself out of anything that had to do with the gang and putting myself into positive, into more positive things. And people saw that.

 

And yeah, people called me all kinds of names when I first started making changes in my life. Names I won't repeat, but you can imagine what they are. But what I realized was it takes a lot more courage to step away and not be involved. is the easy thing to do is get involved in rides and sell drugs. That's easy to do because everybody else is doing it. But eventually one of the top guys in my game,

 

He eventually asked me, it, he pulled me over on the yard and was like, John, is this really what you want? Like, you really want to leave? I was like, yeah. Well, I didn't answer that quickly because I was terrified. He's like, yeah, this is really what I want. And he's like, good, because you're too smart to be in here and you could do more than die in prison. So mind your own business, go home. We love you. Go home. And he was, he's been down, he's been in prison for almost 40 years. did 32 consecutive years in solitary confinement.

 

The Dental A Team (35:27.213)

He was first arrested when he was four years old. Four? He was four years old and he was arrested. I didn't know they could even arrest four year olds. I didn't know that. Yes. it's kind of, I say this, in the land of the free, we have handcuffs that are small and lifted around the wrist of a four year old child. Wow. Insane. What were his chances that he was going to go to college? What were the chances that he was in a

 

do anything, but he's one of the most charismatic CEOs you'll ever meet. That's incredible. So you change. I think it's what I love. And I'm curious, do you feel like your solitary confinement and the grit and the mental stamina you built up there possibly could have influenced your decisions to leave and to have a different life? Like, feel like that solitary confinement, if you will allow it, which I think so many things in our lives could allow.

 

For me, John, listening to your story, I'm curious if you learned mental stamina, mental grit. You'd already done probably some of the hardest things. I think that actually was probably harder than telling people that you want to have a different life. Do you feel like there was any mental stamina that you learned or grit or lessons you learned that maybe made it easier for you, even though easy is like with massive air quotes? Because I don't think any of what you did was easy. But do you think any of that played into it for you? Definitely. It also helped that I've been to that stuff because that's a resume builder in prison that you put in words.

 

Bender the shoe. This shoe is a solitary housing. It's called solitary housing unit. So then the shoe, you found these things and then when you get to Pelican Bay, which is like the white house or like, it's like where you want to go. If you get to, when you get to Pelican Bay, you're like, yeah, I made it. It's like, that's your like stamp. That's like your stamp of approval. Is that just cause it's the hardest prison? Like why is Pelican Bay? Okay. They're the hardest prison. It was, it's one of the, it's the only super max in California. And I think it's changed now. They're there. Hopefully they shut it down, but it was known for.

 

All the top game leaders are put in solitary confinement there. And it's where like, there's a few prisons in California and Pelican Bay is one. Pelican Bay was one of them. So like I had the mental grid and determination. I was still terrified. It's like at the end of the day, like I'm just one, just one person, but I really, what I was more afraid of dying in prison than like, because I'm not dying in prison anyways. Like, what are you guys going to do to Right. No, it's a Stupid slash am, like stupid slash arrogant.

 

The Dental A Team (37:51.329)

which works out, which works out sometimes and right. Yeah. For entrepreneurs, think it works out sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't. It worked out this time. Interesting. Okay. So the five entries is such a cool company and such an amazing thing because it really does help these. I feel like it's almost like the redirect. So you're taking these criminals that have had like amazing, brilliant, you just redirect them into something good because I do believe, and I don't know, you've been in prison, you've seen probably the darker side of life. John, I believe

 

that people are inherently good. Do you believe that after seeing the dark side of life? you believe that sentiment as well? Yes, I do. And I've seen it. Even the guys that I talk about who have been incarcerated for 30, 40 years and have done, made terrible choices. I've made terrible choices too. There's like when you tap into a softer part of them, when they have hope, hope, when they have hope, right? It makes such a huge difference in someone's life when someone has hope versus

 

Like you're an animal and you're a monster and you're dying in prison, right? Then when you have hope, some of that good starts to come out. The good, I can see it, I can point to it because I'm right here today. The goodness in them said, John, go home, do good. I still talk to them to this day and they love seeing me win. They love what I get to They love seeing me succeed and do great things, even though they will never, they'll never get out of prison. But they love seeing other people succeed.

 

Which is incredible to me because you would think like, can criminals really be kind and have kind hearts? Cause you see the evil side of it. I think John, okay, I have a few more questions. I know we're coming up, but like, okay. Question one is tell me about what it was like. Well, actually I'm going to ask this question first. Cause then I want to hear like a happier side. I think there's a preconceived notion about people that who are criminals and then they change that like,

 

Well, yeah, but is this like a long thing? And like, do you ever get tempted to go, I don't know, do all the things you used to do? Like there was status, there was power. Like, how do you navigate? It's almost like you've tasted of that fruit. How do you not go back to that? As human natures, right? Human nature is easy. like, riddle me on that one. How do people trust him believe that these incarcerated criminals really have like truly changed and are just going to like flip a switch one day or they'll go back to their old roots? Like,

 

The Dental A Team (40:18.733)

Can you answer anything on that? Because I think that that's a misconception across the board. that takes work. These are patterns for whether someone's in any patterns. It's like addiction. It's a pattern in our life. There's a pathway in our brain, whether it's violence, aggression, whatever it is that we're engaging in. That's a pathway that's been created in our brain and it can become a go-to just like that. So it takes years of work to start undoing those patterns and learning new patterns.

 

And we can all learn new patterns. Our brains are very, that plasticity, right? Our brains can learn. We're forever learning. So for myself, ask about like, what, do I have criminal thoughts? Yeah, I have them all the time. But I know that I don't want to do, I don't want to do that. Number one is I don't want to create more victims. Number two, I never want to go back to prison. I never want to give up my, I'll never give up my freedom again. There's nothing in this world that will make me give up my freedom again. And I can get my needs met in other ways.

 

Right? Like whether it's significance, whether it's contribution, whatever those needs are, I can get them, I can meet them now in a legitimate way because I have the skills and the tools to get to meet them. Whereas before, the people who we serve in prison, they didn't have, no one sent them to school. No one sent, like when I dropped, when I got kicked out of school in seventh grade, nobody came to look for me. The school, the school didn't, the school never called my family and asked about me.

 

No truant officer ever came searching for me. Right? Like that to me, that's why, because there's multiple factors. It could be the neighbor that you grew up in, how much money you have, and the color of your skin. Determines the opportunities and the ways that we were raised. So many of the people who come to prison with us, the volunteers, the CEOs and executives, we ask a series of questions and we ask like, how many of you have more than 50 books in your house growing up? Your parents pay for you to attend private school.

 

Your parents tucked you into bed every night, right? At least one parent tucked you into bed. Like I heard gunshots in my neighborhood growing up. Like these, and you see the stark contrast between the opportunities that we had. So is it expected that there, that people who are incarcerated have these patterns in their life that have, that have gone on for years. But at Defy, we can teach them and start to give them new patterns of, you used to do this in prison for the gang. Well, you can convert that.

 

The Dental A Team (42:46.573)

over it, this is a, it's called a transferable skill. You can transfer that skill set over here and use it this way. That's incredible. I love it. And that's ultimately what Defy is for. And that's what like changed your life is this company that you guys are a part of comes in and they teach the curriculum. They give like, you guys have your little SOPs. You've got all your manuals. They go through class. How long do people usually

 

participate in DeFi before they are. So it's not easy. This is the curriculum they're going through. This is a lot of curriculum that they are going through and reading. And if you have everything in here from self-limiting beliefs to building out your business model to running an MVP, they have everything through that. And it's a lot. It takes around six months for them. It takes about six months for them to get through the curriculum. That's awesome.

 

And that's like really what your passion is now. So, okay, I'm going to ask the question and then we're going to talk about Defy and how you even got to Defy. But okay, I need to know. So it was probably what 2017 and you were released in 2019? Yeah, got on June 19th, 2019. June 19th. I bet you'll never forget that day. Well, actually I think the greatest thing happened this year I did forget and Casey texted me and was like, congratulations. What for? It's your five years. I forgot that I did forget. That actually felt really good to forget that.

 

It felt good to forget that. That's amazing. I, that makes me actually so happy because then it's not a stamp of remembering who you were, but who you are today is what you're actually living. So basically two years from the time like you made this decision, two years, you build up a business plan, you're learning all these skills, you're released. I need to know like, and I don't even know if you can put into words, like what did it feel like to have freedom back after 17 years?

 

of not having freedom, of being in solitary confinement, of feeling like you're gonna be in this for the rest of your life, to then changing and realizing, I want a different life. Can you just explain to the listeners and to me, what does that even feel like? Because I think we take for granted our life, our love, our happiness, all the things that we have on a daily basis, and you had all that stripped away from you for years, for good reason, right? There were consequences associated, but what did that even feel like when you were released? So my release was a bit of a journey.

 

The Dental A Team (45:04.129)

There was a typo in my transcripts, in my transcripts that I was supposed to, I had committed crimes in Texas where I was originally born. I went back to court, I served my time, I did everything. The transcriber forgot to check a box that I had been incarcerated for 18 years. So I had the federal marshals come pick me up from prison and fly me out to Texas. And they held me against my will for 10 days before they released me.

 

it took lawyers, I had volunteers or mentors of mine who I met through defy who got me an attorney and fought for me and eventually fought for my eventually won my release after 10 days. but even up until that moment, they called me out and like Jackson, it's called RC or RCO one. Like you're going home. and then I'm like, you're going home. I'm like, I didn't believe them. I felt like I had been screwed over by the system so many times and I.

 

They're like, give us your social security number forward, give us your social security number backwards, what address you used to live at when you were 13. And I don't remember any of this stuff. And then I get in front of a glass door and they're just waiting for it to open. just didn't believe it was gonna open.

 

But I finally did and I was able to walk back and I got the hell out of there as fast as I could because I was scared they would come back and take me away and tell me like, we're just screwing with you. Like it's a joke. not really letting you go. And finally made my way back to California. So they flew me out to Texas. I had no idea or nothing. I had to find my way back to California within 72 hours to go over my parole meeting.

 

So, but I got on a flight. I was able to fly with no ID. How did you do that? That's impressive. So I started working for another organization called 2.0 and we printed up a fake IP. Our business manager printed up a fake IP for me, printed it up, sent it to Kinko's and I went and got it and I got in the plane.

 

The Dental A Team (47:17.485)

It's fine. We gave away crime. just smelt like it's just a little like we're fine. I had to get back to California to violate my parole. Yeah. All right. So you get back. Go on. was like it's taken. It has taken time to it's very trying. It is re-entering society after 18 years of that. It's very traumatizing. I had a hard time sleeping. didn't sleep. Casey being a

 

Going to Casey's was actually the first time I fell asleep. I fell asleep at his house. I hadn't slept in close to like five days. I hadn't slept. Just because I couldn't like be in a room with doors and windows and large spaces. I was not used to that. I was used to being in a small cell that, you know, I know everything that's going on in that cell. then it's, it's, it's taken a lot of time, a lot of healing and a lot of therapy to be able to like sleep with my bedroom door open now. Yeah.

 

That's incredible. It's amazing. John, like it was thank you for sharing because it touches me too, because I can only imagine and I felt it. I think at a very small level because I'll never know what that felt like. To hear because I agree, I it was so like, this even real life? And well, I mean, I've got all the hopes and aspirations, but will I actually be able to achieve everything that I know I'm meant to do? And then now five years later, you're married, you have a house, you you've got this happy life. Like

 

I just remember watching you at Tony Robbins and I think so many people love being there. And I feel like you're experiencing life like for the first time. It's almost like watching a child experience life, not that you're a child, but just the joy and the love and like you're experiencing life I feel firsthand for the first time right now. And I think to be able to watch you do that was so magical for me because like I take these things for granted. I mean, I get to go to these events and I get to have these and like, yes, it's amazing, but.

 

Like watching you just, feels like every day you live, you live to the fullest. And I don't know if you want to comment on that. And then I want to talk about Defy and help you. I try to, I still like, I have hard days. I have days like, I, that, that days that suck, days that are like not the best, right? But trying to practice gratitude and I can, I can forget that sometimes. can forget, but I actually like thinking about it, I'm actually grateful that sometimes I can have those days because I'm that far away from where I used to be that I can be like,

 

The Dental A Team (49:39.949)

crap, I'm stuck in traffic. I'm not in solitary confinement. This traffic, I mean, 80 is really bad. I'll give it Five years ago, like, I would have done anything to just be able to sit in traffic, right? And sitting at cell. But I look at it as like, but it's a good reminder to be like, yeah, could have, I could, my life could be much, much worse. But today I get to use my life for to do great. I get to live what I believe is my purpose and why God put me on this earth. So I love that.

 

I love that you just said that because I think maybe that was like the piece I wanted people to hear. There's so many pieces I wanted people to hear from you, but to hear like today I get to live my life on purpose. I get to live what I was meant to be here for. And I think like hearing someone like John, I don't think so many of us listening will ever understand what it feels like to be in prison for 18 years. Like I hope so many people don't have that. And I think just like you really bring me back to gratitude every time I talk to you of just like how blessed I am to have the life I have and to

 

like live those days and to live the purpose that I was meant to be and like we're all created for more. And so tell me a little bit about Kay, here's John five years. You have to five ventures kind of tell us a little bit about what the five ventures are because I think it's incredible that entrepreneurs like most of the listeners here were able to go in and give you the gift of entrepreneurship. And now you're doing that for more incarcerated criminals. And when Casey talked on stage, he said like,

 

The US is not as big of a population and yet we house the most criminals within the US. Like you probably know those stats way better than I do. We have about 5 % of the world's population, but we incarcerate 25%. We have 25 % of the world's incarcerated population. The vast majority of them are black and brown people. That's just the reality. We have one of the highest recidivism rates in the world. All of these things that show that we have a broken system, a system that does not work.

 

And I know what you went to me when I heard that I was like staggering statistics. And just thinking like what you guys are trying to do is stop generational crime and stop like the path of cradle to grave and like, I don't know you said blood to casket, like crazy to me that that's how but you're like, this is my life. That's all you know. And it's like, well, think about where we raise and like, my parents went to college. So I went to college and

 

The Dental A Team (51:57.229)

Like, yes, we can break away from it, but breaking away from the mold, I do think is hard. And so kind of tell us a little about about five ventures. And if people are interested, this is our live to give this year of like having a way to give back. was so incredible to see how many people were able to help through this program at Tony Robbins. And then also for me and all the listeners know every year we do live to give and something that just really is a bigger impact than ourselves. Cause I believe we're so blessed as entrepreneurs, let's give back and serve more. So kind of tell us a little about.

 

what DeFi Ventures does and how people can get a part of that if they want to. Yeah, so DeFi, we leverage entrepreneurship. We want to, it's we call it transforming their hustle, right? It's taking all those skills that they've learned through the criminal and gang life and using them to apply to start their own business. And they don't have to start a business. They can also do that, like being what's called an entrepreneur, where you are using that creativity, using all your skills as an employee. So we leverage that. And what we do is we

 

also recruit CEOs, executives and business leaders to come into prison with us for our events. They're very similar to what we get to do at Tony Robbins. People jumping around, having a great time, getting people in state and giving feedback on their business pitches. Because we're going to get them all the way to writing a business pitch and post it after they get out of prison. We help them get them all the way to seed funding as well. If they're doing, if they're meeting certain benchmarks, we'll put them in front of investors to help them start their business.

 

but they have to have a job, have to have stable housing, which we help them do after they get out. We're building character and leadership development in them as well. Because as you know, as entrepreneurs, it's not just about making money. Like that's not what defines an entrepreneur. There's a lot that goes into it. Like you can make a boat ton of money and ruin your life, ruin your marriage, ruin a whole lot of things if you don't have great coping skills. So we take a holistic approach to the healing and...

 

That's a big part of what we get to do at Defy is yes, we want you to start a business, but more than that, we want you to develop you as leaders and develop your character. So to date, we've helped launch over 600 businesses for people who are formerly incarcerated. One of the guys you can look up, he's a rock star, name is Cos Marte. He founded a company called ConBody. I he's got over 75,000 customers and he does prison style workouts for people. So if you want a good workout, you can go to ConBody.

 

The Dental A Team (54:15.469)

and we'll partner you up with somebody who's formerly incarcerated and they'll get your butt working out. We have lot of things by 90 % employment rate, 90 days post release for our EITs. We call it EITs. That stands for Entrepreneurs in Training. And so when they get out, we help them get jobs. We have partnership with Google, Apple, LegalZoom to help them get on their feet, them get a laptop, start their business, incorporate their business. And the ways to get involved are one,

 

We're a 501c3 nonprofit, so it costs us $1,700 per person to put someone through the CEO of your New Life program. So you can sponsor someone. Even in your chapter, we have multiple chapters. We're a nationwide organization. So if you're in Utah, California, Washington, the tri-state area, Pennsylvania, Illinois, can search for defy.org and support a chapter near you. Or you can...

 

We go to volunteer as well. love bringing people into prison, business coaches and mentors to come in and invest in our entrepreneurs and training and give them the feedback that they desperately need. And it makes a huge difference when you come to prison with us and invest in people for people who have been incarcerated 20, 25, 30 years that people actually care. And it also starts like what happened for you, Kiera, it starts to break those stereotypes or those beliefs that you have about what someone is from there, who someone is.

 

that has committed a crime or someone who's incarcerated. Yeah, I love it. Dental A Team does live to give every single year. this is just something when I met you, John, and yes, we won the trophy. But like I said, I feel like we won life. you've just taught me to, like I said, you can love yourself even in spite of everything that's happened. And you see yourself as, I'm John. Yes, I've done those things. But like, I love me as a person. And I can feel sad for those things. And I can have remorse. And I can do all the things to repair.

 

but it doesn't define you either. And I feel like you just have this love and this sparkle of life, which makes me so happy. And then to be able to give that to other people, I think is just an incredible cause that you guys are doing and excited. I'll be there January 17th. I'll see you guys. And am I scared out of my mind? I'm like, John, are you sure I'll be safe? Like, how do know these people aren't going to like grab my hair and hold me by my throat with a knife? Like, do I fear that? John. can address that right now. And I could just share with people who might think that prison is a...

 

The Dental A Team (56:40.941)

So these are rules that are in prison from gangs, right? That like, not saying that I agree with them, but like, if you have a sex offense, you rape or child molestation, those types of crimes are severely frowned upon and actually violence is committed against people who come in with those crimes. And I brought hundreds and thousands of hundreds, literally hundreds, and over the 10 years that we've been doing this organization, we brought thousands of women to prison. Never once have we had any incident. It is one of the most

 

The men there that you will meet will be the most respectful kind. One of the safest places you can be is actually in a maximum security prison, especially for women. respect that the men have in there for you all coming in there to support us and care about us. We know why you're there. It's to serve and I want to learn from you. I'm not there trying to do anything else. I want to learn from you. That's really what it's about.

 

That's amazing. And thank you for speaking to that because I do like those are the fears that's media and but I think it's such an incredible cause to give people a second chance in life and to put them through programs like yourself where you are coming as the product of this program and looking what you can do for all these people. So John, I just appreciate you in my life. I appreciate learning from you. I appreciate that you let me ask all of my questions and your story.

 

You're a great question asker. That's why we want to talk about it. I was not here asking questions. You're a great interview and a great question asker. Thank you. Well, it's genuine curiosity because just to see who you are today versus where you were five years ago, seven years ago. And what I think is also magical is it didn't take a long time, right? Like you were in prison for 14 years and you were able to turn your life like to also give hope that if people have addictions or people have done things in their life they're not proud of.

 

It didn't take you 17 years. For sure, you're gonna spend the rest of your life trying to make up for the pain that you maybe caused other people, but you're doing that and by stopping generational crime and making those changes that I think for people, you give hope. You give hope for loving ourselves. You give hope for forgiveness. You give hope for the beauty of life. You give hope for things that we can do to invest and to give back to a greater cause. And I just think you're such a special person that this world is so lucky to have a part of.

 

The Dental A Team (59:02.625)

Well, thank you and your curiosity and your light and the love that you give off is really very inviting and very welcoming. So I'm very grateful for you and having me today and being your friend. really grateful to have you my life as well. I hope you quickly become a really great friend and I really look forward to seeing you in prison. I know, right? It sounds like a funny, a funny phrase, but agreed. so for all of you, if you feel called, like just check it out. I think it's such an incredible thing. But find something like I'm always about live to give and how can we give and serve? What, whether it's

 

prison, whether it's sex trafficking, whether, whatever it is, child hunger, find something where you can give back and truly change lives because I truly do believe at the heart of every person in this world, no matter what they've done, people are inherently good and people want to be good. And sometimes they just need to have somebody believe in them and love them as well. So John, thank you for being on our podcast and sharing your very personal life. I just appreciate you a ton. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you as well. Of course.

 

And for all of you listening, thank you for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Kiera lays out a ton of ideas on how practices should be looking ahead to 2025, including the right percentage growth to aim for, why you actually can take time off for vacation, and more.

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00.994)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and welcome to the Dental A Team podcast. I hope today is such a magical day for you. I hope that you are having such a fun time and I hope that you are wrapping up 2024, getting ready for 2025. I am so excited for you guys as you're wrapping up the year. And I just wanted to take a minute of let's not forget how to maximize and optimize our schedules for 2025. I know it can sound funny, but really if we take the time now,

 

to project out, prepare for our year. You are gonna have such a better year in 2025. So welcome to projections with the Dental A Team podcast. As always, if this podcast has changed your way, your life in any way, if it's shaped you, if it's molded you, if it's helped you, please leave us a review. Please share this podcast with someone because my goal is to have this podcast in the hands of every single dental practice to be able to positively impact and influence giving tactical practical skills and solutions for free.

 

So that way we can rise and elevate the world of dentistry. And that's my mission and my goal. And I can only do it with your help and your support. So leave those reviews, share it with somebody and let's make the world of dentistry realize how incredible it is that we're a part of it and give you practical tactical skills to take your practice to the new, to the next level. All right. So as you guys are preparing for production, the big thing you guys need to be doing right now, and I'm hoping that you do this before end of year, that would be optimal.

 

is let's start building out our schedule for next year. And that means we're looking at the number of providers we have, the number of providers we might be adding in, number of hygienists. And then also let's look at our vacation time we want off. So often I hear, Kiera, I just can't take time off of my practice. And I just say, that's actually not true. You totally can. We just need to plan and prepare for it. And then we need to set our goals accordingly. So you need to be looking at your practice now and it needs to be a minimum of a 10 % growth.

 

So we did a million this year, we should be doing 1.1 next year. So once we know that, we then go through our schedule, we figure out, all right, how many providers, how many hygienists, how many days off, how many holidays, let's look at all of that. Also, I would strongly recommend that you are actually looking at trends. And doctors and office managers, this is a phenomenal exercise to do together. So what we wanna do is you wanna look at trends. Historically, is our February always low?

 

Kiera Dent (02:19.648)

And I usually look two or three years back, you can make spreadsheets about that. That's how we do it. So we can historically look, all right, how was our December? How was our September? Was it slam dunk timber or was it suck timber? What about our February? Was that low? Was it high? What about our December's? Historically, how are those doing? And once you can get the trends, we can also make our goals and our, like everything way more realistic for us. So then you're gonna wanna look through, and we actually have spreadsheets for this for our clients where you go through and it's going to be, all right, in January, how many?

 

days do we have available? How many days are we going to be off? What is our doctor out hourly? How many hours are they working? How many columns do they have? What about for our hygienist? And then it actually spits out a monthly goal for you based on the number of providers you have, doctor and hygienist based on what their hourly trends have been, which you can look back three to six months to see what have their, what are they historically doing? Then we can increase that. So maybe if our doctors are producing 500 an hour, maybe we bump them to 525 or to 550.

 

But really figuring this out so that way we can make sure all of them are hitting the levels that they need to be hitting that then projects you your monthly goal because based on the number of days providers that hourly we're able to do that. Hygienist as you know should be doing at least three times their hourly. Hygienist that's the standard across the board. I know insurances can be tricky and that's where we also look to see, okay, what do we need to add to our appointments? Are we doing our fluoride? Are we doing our laser? What about our FMXs? Are there things that we could be doing because guess what?

 

So many practices are able to hit this. And so I know that you're able to do it as well. It also means we've got to work on keeping the schedule full so we're not having as many cancellations. So we look at that. And then we also figure out we're going to take vacations in September because historically that's a really junk month for us. So let's do it there. We're also going to take them in February. Let's maximize the time where it's already slow. And if we can do that, we're actually going to do a lot better. And once you get all this data, it's going to spit out a number for you. And it's going to tell you, OK.

 

based on everything you put in, based on the hourly, based on the providers, based on the days off that we're having between holidays and vacations, you are gonna produce, let's say, one million. Well, we know we need to be at 1.1 because that's our growth. So then we look back and we say, okay, what could we do? Do we need to increase our hourly? Do we maybe need to bring in another provider? Do we need to look at how many days we're closed? Do we need to open up a few others? Do we need to increase our daily goal so that way we're hitting it? What does that equate to?

 

Kiera Dent (04:43.554)

Oftentimes I'll look in offices like we need to produce 20,000 more. Well, a lot of offices are actually working 16 days a month. So if we need 20,000 and we've got 16 days a month, that's 1250 per day that we would need to add in. And then I love to take it to teams and I like to ask, all right, what is 1250 worth of dentistry? That's like literally one crown. That's a couple of fluorides, it's quad of fillings. Like it's a few night guards, a few like whitening.

 

And we start to get really creative. If we know that I love to break it down and then that becomes your new daily goal for your team. And this is how we're able to take vacations, we're able to hit our goals with ease and we're able to maximize and actually set effective goals for every single month rather than just arbitrary. Cause most people would say, Kiera, that's way too hard. And I used to be this person where I would take, if we need to do 10 % growth, I'll just take 1.1 divided by 12, bada bing, bada boom. We need to do 92,000 per month. Well,

 

That's great, but what about our low months? What about the months we're taking vacations? Like, are we just expected to produce a lot more? What happens if we have a hygienist that goes out on maternity leave? What happens if we have a doctor that goes out on vacations? Like, that becomes very hard. So if in the month of December, we're only open two weeks, well, I don't think that that month should be equally weighted as maybe August, where we've got five weeks in that month. So what this does is it really helps you actually maximize, optimize, take vacations, and make sure that we're able to hit our goals with ease.

 

I love this model. I geek out about it. I work with my clients on this. We work in our consulting with this because I think this is something that sometimes can feel daunting. And it's just stuff that we just don't want to do. I'm building out my projections. And then what I look at next is, okay, if that's what we're producing as a practice, what are our costs for next year? And are there costs that we're going to need to bring in of maybe hiring new people or doing different things? And do we actually like is 1.1 or that 10 % growth?

 

actually going to support and sustain the practice like we need it to do? Or do we need to get more creative? Being more creative, like could we add in other services? Could we do ortho? Could we do sleep? Could we do implants? Like what do we need to do in our practice? What things do we already have that maybe we're not doing? Like I have offices right now that are doing a whitening competition. That's easy ways to add in production on our schedule that we're already doing that we're just not maximizing. What if we've got a 3D printer? Could we look for night guards and could we do that?

 

Kiera Dent (07:06.332)

What about sports teams in the area? Could we do those? Like this is where we start to get into our creative world to really truly grow our practices with ease. And so this is where I wanted to come and just kind of give you guys a quick snippet of how you can actually build these out. And the reason why we do this is like I said, so we're actually able to maximize and optimize and be able to hit our goals with ease. Now things that might come up as a tricky piece is like, well, should I be doing CE? And the answer is,

 

Like I'm all for CE, I'm all for doctors doing CE, I'm all for all of that. But I also wanna make sure that we're not being CE overload to where we're actually not implementing. So what I say is if you're gonna go to CE, there needs to be a complete action plan for you when you do come back of we're gonna do X number of cases. So if we go to sleep within the next quarter, our team's gonna set some goals around it and we're gonna try and actually accomplish doing, I don't know, 20 cases, okay? So what do we need to do for 20 cases? How do we track this? How do we monitor this?

 

So whenever we go to CE, the CE is actually being implemented into our practice and it becomes a habit as opposed to a fleeting thought. This is what happens with ortho doing, I heard an office and they do a sip and scan and they bring all their patients in and they have like a fun wine night and they just scan and then they present ortho cases. There's software out there that can show patients their smile transforming right before their eyes to be able to do it. So there's so many opportunities for you.

 

to get creative when you know what the goals need to be to sustain the practice as a business. So we go through, we figure out our provider amounts, we figure out what our goals should be, we figure out what we should be estimated for our production based on years prior, and we set our goals accordingly. And then we make sure what we're going to spend actually is in align with what we're producing. And then if it's not, we get creative and we figure out, should we do CE? Should we not do CE? What things could we do? What can we do to boost our months? If we know September is always low,

 

What could we be doing in June, July and August to make sure that it's higher? Like, could we go back and for implant cases, look at all of our patients that are denture patients and send them a special letter. Like, there's so many opportunities and this is why I love to consult practices is because we help you think outside the box. We help you figure out how are we gonna be able to get to the goals we want, but do it with maximum ease and efficiency. How do we look and use our numbers as levers and dial that in?

 

Kiera Dent (09:29.058)

rather than just assuming like, well, it is what it is. Let's hope and a wish. No goals and numbers and projections don't need to be a hope and a wish. They can actually be built upon mathematical things. Looking back at trends of where we should be and then increasing based on where it should be. Also your 5 % increase on fee schedule should be in place too. So like that's where it's very easy to be hitting this growth with minimal effort. We just need to make sure that we're all doing it.

 

And so I just really would encourage you to be looking at this, to be looking ahead, to figure out where we can take our vacations, to be able to take our vacations with ease, to be able to maximize our doctor's schedules and our hygienist schedules, to be able to set realistic goals that are truly achievable, to make our bonuses based on that, knowing what we're spending on the practice of all the numbers, and then being able to roll that out to our team. If this feels daunting, high five. Welcome, welcome to the world of business ownership.

 

where these things might feel daunting, but just know it doesn't have to be hard. I have a practice where we started working on this and they were so nervous because they were like, Kiera, we're doing an expansion. We don't know how we're going to be able to do this. And so what I did was I took it with them and we did a very conservative projections and we did a high-end projections. And what's crazy is they actually hit the high ends. But by knowing what we needed to produce, they were then able to go set the goals and the KPIs with their team.

 

They were able to easily track their metrics all the way along. And you put it in the spreadsheet. Where were we at based on where we projected? Why was it this way? We looked back at the trends. What were the low months? And what's crazy about doing this is it gives you confidence. Confidence you can pay the bills. Confidence that you're going to be able to pay for your team. Confidence that you know what to set your goals at and they're not just arbitrary. Confident that you can take vacations and not let the practice plummet.

 

So many doctors tell me, Kiera, I had a terrible December. And I'm like, well, that's because you didn't plan. You didn't plan out to take two weeks of vacation. And then we were trying to cram in $100,000, $200,000 worth of production into two weeks. Well, that can be tricky. Also, if you know this, we can strategically start planning in October, November, December, making block schedules where we know what production we're going to be bringing in when people's benefits are coming due and we're trying to get a bunch of treatment in. Like, let's not be chaotic. Let's be strategic of what we're doing and putting into our schedule so it's easy.

 

Kiera Dent (11:45.442)

We're able to help the most amount of patients and we're able to just get to our goals with ease. This is the type of stuff that lights me up. This is the type of stuff where I'm like, we can do this together. And that office this year, they're celebrating hitting their highest growth and they took off the most amount of time that they've ever taken off. And they were able to help more patients and bring on more team members. And all those decisions were very confident because they knew exactly what they needed to do. So I...

 

think everyone needs to do this. And if you need help, reach out [email protected] We have so many options available for you for consulting where it's online, where it's kind of like a systems and you go through all the 12 systems and you have a group that we every single week. And sometimes you're even getting one-on-one help to where you can add one-on-one calls and you can get individualized help, or you are in our full level platinum with us where you're actually coming to masterminds and leadership retreats. And we're working with your team one-on-one, whatever it is, there's, there's options for you. So

 

Reach out, but do this. I make all my offices do this. I work on it with them because I know if they've got the numbers, they're going to make much smarter decisions, better projections. And if you're like, Kiera, that's so hard. Phenomenal reach out because you're not meant to know how to run a business. You're meant to know how to do dentistry. And my job is to teach you how to do the business and to teach your team to do the business and teach you how to look at those numbers with confidence. So you're able to make decisions that you're confident about making.

 

That's why I have the job I do. I literally am obsessed and passionate about helping business owners learn their numbers, to be able to make smarter decisions, to be able to feel confident in their business, that it's not just a question of will I be profitable? Will I make money? Will I not make money? That's terrifying. You are an amazing clinician. Let's now make you an amazing business owner. Reach out [email protected] Get your projections there. Know what you need to do for next year. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

 

Tiff and Dana spell out how to avoid the crunch-time that always seems to crop up each December. They give advice on how to find the just-right daily metric for your practice, the power of adding procedure codes, how to get the whole team rallied for the cause, and more.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:01.174)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. Dana and I are back at it today. We are bringing you some fantastic information today, if I might say so myself. Dana, thank you so much for being here with me. I know we both had calls. You've had a million calls.

 

a ton of clients and you had so many calls already this morning and you pop it on podcasts to just give away more information. So thank you for being here with me. Thank you for giving me this time this afternoon. What do you have going on this weekend? It's Friday for us right now. I don't know when this is dropping, if it'll be a Friday or not, but what do you have going on this weekend? Because I think the world needs to know. I was very excited and I'm going to need a picture of your outfit.

 

Dana (00:41.026)

Thanks, I'm super excited. We are going to PBR tonight. It's one of my kids' most favorite things and I will say in Tucson they do it up. They do get a lot of the top bull riders across the country. So my kids are pumped for that and indoor fireworks and country music. so we are pumped. I know, was like in my morning Friday five, like, yee-haw everybody, I'm super excited.

 

The Dental A Team (00:56.384)

Dang!

 

The Dental A Team (01:03.222)

Yeah, I'm excited. My sister and I went to PBR a couple years ago. It was up here in Phoenix and it was fun. We were honestly we went as like, I don't know, it's something to do. But we were like hyped by the end of the night. It was like two hours like 10, 11pm. And I was like, what else are we doing tonight? Like, where are we going? So I was like your kids so I get it. And my feet hurt because I wore her boots and that was the wrong idea. So it's fine. It's fine. Well, you have PBR. I have my

 

Dana (01:22.946)

Yeah, super fun.

 

Dana (01:27.746)

You

 

The Dental A Team (01:31.946)

tonight. You didn't get to hear that. I know. Mariah Carey's Christmas concert and I told the team this morning this is not meant to be political or offensive to anyone. This is just true from my heart. Mariah Carey is to me what Taylor Swift is to all the Swifties of the world. I am not. I I think Taylor's would just be fantastic. I do love her music. I think she's great but to me Mariah Carey is is that. So I'm excited.

 

Dana (01:49.584)

Yeah.

 

Dana (01:57.614)

I'll exchange pictures then.

 

The Dental A Team (01:59.958)

Yes, yes, we'll exchange pictures. You got PBR, I Mariah Carey, we've got it on lockdown. This is going to be fantastic night. I hope all of you are doing something fun, whatever day this might be, that you're listening to this. I hope that the weekend that we recorded this, you did one of those two things if you're here in Arizona. And really, we're looking at, I mean, we're looking at fun things towards the end of the year. This time of year,

 

is wild. I feel like this weekend specifically I've had like 16 different things come up that people are like, can you do this, can you do that? I'm like, my gosh, plus I fly on Sunday and I'm like, I can't cram anything else into the amount of time that I have remaining for the year and this is the crunch time, the end of the year.

 

where things just get really, really, really wild. And we really try to cram as much as we can into the time that we have. So personally and professionally, we start doing this, we start seeing practice, you know, schedules get a little wild. And I really want to talk about today, how to make the most of that. So end of year crunch, end of month crunch, but also Dana and I were talking and I want to not just talk about it for December, for the end of the year, I want to talk about it for

 

forever, for every month. How can we make sure that it doesn't get to the end of the year, the last two months of the year, that we're like, holy cow, guys, we've got $60,000, we've got to make up, we're behind. And I don't want you guys to get there. I don't want you to feel that crunch. I want you to be looking at numbers more succinctly throughout the year so that you don't feel that stress, but.

 

We do get there. We do get there sometimes during the year, during other months. And I want you to also be prepared for what that can look like. And Dana, you had just this really fantastic plan.

 

The Dental A Team (03:45.908)

that you've laid out that we use for a lot of our clients, all of our clients are doing it, where they should be. If they're not, slap on the wrist and talk to your consultant. Make sure you get it implemented. But I really want to hear, in your words, Dana, how you make sure that your teams and your doctors are constantly looking at those goals, that they don't have that weird crunch time, and they can accomplish what they're looking for.

 

Dana (04:08.067)

Yeah, and I think like you said, you start off by really looking at those numbers throughout the entire year. I think we set them oftentimes in November, December for the following year and then we're like, well, we set them, we know what they are, that's it. And that's great that you know what they are, but continuing to look at them throughout the year and really to continue to look at is there a gap in any of them? And then we are...

 

The Dental A Team (04:19.774)

Yeah.

 

The Dental A Team (04:23.178)

Yeah.

 

Dana (04:33.858)

pushing the needle or spreading the gap out for the rest of the year so that we are just doing our very best and we're staying on top of where we are in getting there.

 

Oftentimes when we set them in the beginning of the year, those are big numbers, right? They're big numbers and for the team to digest this, we walked through with a practice on our group consulting the other day and our consultant, Christy, just did a fantastic job of saying like, those are huge numbers and to team members sometimes we have to break it down into bite-sized chunks and what can we focus on every single day to get us there? And if we can take, let's say you set a $60,000 gap, if we can take a $60,000 gap and we can

 

The Dental A Team (04:49.62)

Yeah.

 

Dana (05:16.256)

break it down and say, guys, that is one crown a day. Boy, does that feel so much more doable to a team member than we've got to find $60,000. Right. And I love that you said not just in December, because December, like you and I were talking about, Tiv, is like a baby month this year, like where the holiday is placed and with the time off that happens in December and all the activities like December is such a tiny month this year. And so if we wait and we save and we say, okay, well, let's look at it in December, man, we have missed some

 

The Dental A Team (05:25.29)

Yeah. Yeah.

 

The Dental A Team (05:32.416)

Yeah.

 

Dana (05:46.16)

opportunities throughout the year and all the other working days that happened before we got to the month of December.

 

The Dental A Team (05:51.034)

Mm-hmm. Totally. I think that's brilliant and it's something that should be talked about like you said every day Really we should be looking at it especially when it's crunch time and I know I've had so many teams really rally At the end of the month when it is crunch time and not that they waited till the end of the month But they're like, okay guys like we're still needing this 10k Like where are we finding it today and teams will gamify it and they'll really rally around it

 

when they know what they need to gain, when they know how to win. So this kind of goes into that metrics conversation that we had on another podcast of really knowing how I can affect the metric on a daily basis. I love.

 

the idea of doing it and breaking that and what Christy said, like breaking a big goal down to something smaller. breaking that yearly goal down to quarterly, down to monthly, down to daily is huge. And I even have practices, I talked to one today that they were like, gosh, most of the days this week were fantastic, yesterday kind of sucked. But overall for the week, we were above goal. Fantastic. So it's from a monthly to a weekly to a daily. Like, as long as you're on track over the big haul, that's what matters.

 

I do have practices that almost focus too small and then I have practices that focus too big. The two big practices are like, okay guys, our goal is 250 this month and we're at 125, so let's keep going. It's like, okay, cool, but what else is left? And then I have practices that are like, we need $10,000 every day. So every day they're like, are we at $10,000, yes or no?

 

What they're not doing is what Dana's talking about is really looking at what was our goal minus what we've done minus what's scheduled, right? Divided by the number of days you have remaining because even if I'm at 12,000 of a $10,000 goal today, if I was at 8,000 yesterday and I'm not thinking about that now $2,000 gap between the two days, I'm $2,000 short at the end of the month and I'm like, wait, where did the money go?

 

The Dental A Team (07:47.338)

well, there's a gap somewhere that was missed. So we've got to look at all of those metrics and figure out every single day, my daily goal might change. I have a practice that I was like,

 

Just I Extended them that was hard to get out I extended them one year past what I they thought they could do I knew they could do it right But they had like a nine thousand dollar a day goal They had three hygienists and they had one and a half doctors had a nine thousand dollar a day goal and I was like No, you guys you guys can do 12 and they were like

 

No freaking way. And I was like, we're doing it. We're freaking doing it. I'm going to tell show you how I'm going to tell you how to get there. I'm gonna hold you accountable. We're gonna do it. And they did. But then next week, I get a text from the front office gal, the treatment coordinator and she's like, I'm sad to say that was really easy. And I think I know because you just didn't know what you were capable of because we weren't looking at the numbers before you had no idea that you were surpassing $9,000 on the regular.

 

Dana (08:24.813)

me.

 

The Dental A Team (08:48.694)

You guys were already doing it, you just didn't know. So I put that $12,000 in, blew your minds, and now you guys are like, wait a second, this was really easy, actually, if we could do more. You totally can with the right scheduling, with the right pieces put into place, but if we're not looking at it, we have no idea where we can go. So taking those pieces throughout the month, on the fifth day, you might see, hey guys, we're actually not, we're a little bit behind, we need to add $2,000 each day. Great, our 9,000.

 

$1,000 goal is now $11,000 until we get above that. But looking at it every day and making sure we do know what that gap is. Dana, you talked on another podcast about, like we said at the beginning of this one, how the little things that we do every single day can add up to a big thing. So even as far as you mentioned attaching all of the procedure codes, right? So what have you seen in practices that you've worked with or worked in where it's like, gosh, guys, we're only $500 short or something, like we're looking at it.

 

But then it comes down to those simple things. What are some areas that you feel like practices miss that are easily made up when they've got a gap like that? Like just attaching simple codes. What codes are you looking at?

 

Dana (10:00.524)

Yeah, x-rays for sure. Anything as far as adjunct services. Sometimes we're like, well, I'm just going to irrigate just this quadrant. Well, you irrigated them, right? Or bundling perio things so that our perio patients that get the best results also have laser or ozone or stellalight or all of the other perio adjunct services. Making sure that we're adding fluoride. Even I've got lots of doctors now that because fluoride helps crowns last longer are adding fluoride to all of their crowns.

 

they do the seat, they're administering varnish. Even coming up with, right, as we're seeing more of this fluoride pushback come out, you know what? There's a hydroxyapatite varnish. So let's have that in the practice so that even when we get pushback, there's still something we can do. So it really is just little, little things. And I use fluoride as an example because lots of patients can benefit from that or the hydroxyapatite alternative.

 

If we look at, say one hygiene day, average floor, will say is $30 for the varnish. We see eight patients in each hygiene column. If every hygienist even got 80 % of their patients, that's close to a thousand extra dollars every single working day. And it's something so small. You use the example of PAs and write PAs 12, $16. But if we're doing that routinely for all of our patients, that maybe we see a little bit something or maybe, you know, they're having some sensitivity here and we add that PA.

 

those things add up with the number of patients that we see each day. So little things like that really do have a huge impact.

 

The Dental A Team (11:36.16)

Yeah, I agree. I think the PAs are so easy. And I think even on like a limited exam, we'll have a limited come in and they'll do a limited and a PA. But then sometimes the doctor's like, can you get a bite wing of that? Then you did a bite wing too, right? So making sure all those are put in there. And then I thought how many times when I've done billing and gone back through and I've seen crowns, and I'm like, so many crowns and do we really not do build ups? Doc's like, we always do a build up. What are you talking about?

 

I'm like, well, we've never charged for a buildup. These patients are just getting buildups all over the place. And those are like $185. I've seen it all the way up to almost $300 for a buildup.

 

Dana (12:07.81)

Yeah.

 

The Dental A Team (12:17.174)

Making sure that every code is attached is insanely important, not just to the billing representative because he or she desperately wants that information, you guys, but also to your bottom goal. And when you come in and it's like, guys, we're so close. Or when I get the calls from the teams and they're like, we missed it by 2000. I'm like, well, where was the 2000? Where did you lose it? Was it in buildups or PAs or was it, know, two more, can we have done two more occlusal guards? Like, where does that look like? really

 

winning your month and knowing how you're going to get there is huge and then I think you guys talked you said on that group coaching call which I love because those doctors are just freaking fantastic and they have so many excellent questions and ideas that they're sharing but you guys brought it so granular as to like what is the thing that's going to get us there so we might be $1,200 short what is that so that's a crown

 

That's two occlusal guards. That's a handful of fillings for certain patients. Really looking at, where can we make that up? Where do we have time in our schedule to make that up? Do I have assistive time that if I had two night guards come through, so two occlusal guards, I could have the scans or impressions taken? Making sure that it's super applicable and that we can see the result very easily, I think is super key. And then also flip side, Dana, I have a lot of...

 

a lot of hygienists that I'm like, take the scan in your room. If this patient needs a night guard and occlusal guard, take the scan in your room and then get that credit over there as well. Do you have a lot of hygienists that are doing scans and occlusal guard scans, like full mouth scans to show teeth shifting, all those pieces? Are you seeing that a lot?

 

Dana (14:00.61)

Yeah, yeah, and I'm even seeing I had a hygiene team that they even started to build a whitening column in between their

 

re-care patients and they would both kind of just hop and run it and manage it together. And that was a fantastic boost in production. And sometimes too, is like doctors are hesitant. I just talked to another doctor and it was like, well, you know, I could do bone graft for membrane. And I'm like, why are you going to stop and think like, would this give this patient a better result? Maybe they're not interested in implant right now, but they didn't say no ever in the future. like, let's bone graft it and make sure that those bone levels are nice and healthy or why only popped a couple granules in there? No, that's a bone graft. So let's make

 

sure that we are accounting for it. So I think this is a team-wide thing. And if everybody can just be like, what is one little thing? What is one little thing that if I did consistently throughout my patient base, or if I added in one whitening patient, or combined as a hygiene team, we ran a whitening column, or our FDOT had their own column and they were doing sealants in a pediatric practice. Like what can we do? And there's oftentimes so many things. And if we put our heads together, we actually end up with this list and

 

The Dental A Team (14:37.78)

You opened it.

 

The Dental A Team (14:46.176)

Yeah.

 

Dana (15:07.44)

we're like, okay, well, actually, where do we start of all of these things that we can do?

 

The Dental A Team (15:07.946)

Yeah. Yes.

 

Yes, and putting your heads together on how do we implement this change moving forward and what's the verbiage to feel okay with it? Because I think also, we have a hard time sometimes charging for what we should get paid for. And we say constantly, charge for what you did, charge for what you did. So that means don't leave it off and charge for what you did, meaning don't charge the wrong code just because it feels better because it feels like less I know.

 

I love you all dearly, all of you who are doing this, but it needs to stop. Charging a pro fee for a perio maintenance, just do a perio maintenance. If this patient is a perio maintenance, if this patient has pocketing, if they have all the pieces that add up, they had SRP, they have all of those pieces, and you guys.

 

You guys, this drives me insane and I'm not a hygienist, so tell me if this is totally out of line. I am okay with it. Write me, email me, Dana, call me out on it now, I don't care. But it drives me insane when I see hygienists time over time over time say, okay, well, I'm going to do it this time. But really, it's if it's bad next time, still, I'm going to SRP, I'm going do a one to three or I'm going to go I'm going to have them do three profies. Because really, they need limited scaling. But I don't want to have

 

to tell them that or I think I can do it with the profis like my gosh I think we get caught up in not wanting to make a patient feel some certain way and we actually are doing them such a disservice in my opinion if I have perio tell me I have perio

 

The Dental A Team (16:42.036)

But I need limited scaling because I have had a body change. My physical body has changed because guess what? I'm older than the last time I was here. I'm on different medications or supplements or my breathing changed. I lost weight. I gained weight. I stopped sleeping at night. So many things add up to changes in our mouth that we don't give credit to and then we charge for the lesser because we feel bad. We feel guilty. That's my assumption.

 

That's me putting an assumption into the world. But for the love of all things that are holy, I implore upon you, charge for what you're doing. If you do a CBCT scan, charge for that. If you do a panel, charge for that. Charge for whatever it is that you're doing and stop charging for the lesser just to pad something. Now, if you want to charge it out and you're like, hey, I don't want to charge you for this, then do a write-off.

 

Do a write-off so that you see how much of that you're writing off and giving away as well. Because when you charge a pro fee, when it should have been a perio maintenance, you're not seeing that $60 to $100 difference of money that you're writing off every month that you guys are owed because you did the work. That's my soapbox, Dana.

 

Dana (18:00.854)

No, I will join you in that. I will agree with you. Same thing. I was even the classic hygienist who if you came with too much buildup, I would say I need to see you every three months instead of every six months. You're still a pro-fee, but you're just a heavier builder. And I only have an hour with you and I refuse to run 15 minutes into my next patient's appointment when I could see you more frequently. So...

 

Yeah, you do what your patient needs and if you're prepping the patient and if you're like, oftentimes you're like, well, they're just gonna be surprised or they're gonna be shocked that they need this this time. Well, no, because you build that into the entire appointment, right? You're saying these period charting out loud. You're making them say like, if you hear fours, hey, those are warning signs. If you hear fives, we're in a little bit of hot water territory here. So.

 

The Dental A Team (18:25.152)

Yes.

 

The Dental A Team (18:39.051)

Yeah.

 

Dana (18:49.64)

have the conversations that are needed to be had, do the services that are needed to be done, and bill accordingly.

 

The Dental A Team (18:55.57)

I agree. And doctors, the same thing goes to you for those buildups, for those x-rays, for those just to fix whatever it is. Charge for what you're doing. If you did a buildup,

 

put it in there. If it wasn't treatment planned as it was needing a buildup, then guess what? Have the conversation with the patient, hey, we weren't actually able to save it. We thought we were going to be able to, but once we got in there, it was a little bit deeper, a little bit bigger. And for the stability of this tooth and the longevity of your crown, the money that you are investing, we had to do a buildup.

 

Period. It's not that much, you guys. It is on the long run to you because if you're giving away 10 buildups, it's over potentially $2,000 a month, just charge for it. Do the right thing, charge for it. So that's not just a dig at hygiene. That is everyone. Charge for what you're doing, code for what you're doing. Make the best of your months by looking at what that gap is and how can we get there and then look back and think too.

 

How did we get here? Is it because we forgot to charge for things? We were missing things? Do we have open hours? Do we need to tackle something within the scheduling or the treatment planning? Really look at the trends of the practice, not just what can we add same day always. That's a huge benefit and something I want you to be looking at, but look at the trends that also got you there.

 

So take all this information our soapbox is done you guys we are stepping off of it. We are done for the day on that one. I hope you've gained some value there are some amazing tips within this we do work with clients constantly on these same pieces and if you have questions on what you should be charging for or shouldn't be we can help with a lot of those we don't know.

 

The Dental A Team (20:33.246)

the legalities for every single thing but we do know how to look really hard and find information and help you out as best as we can. If we don't, we know the people who can help you and we will always direct you in that direction. So [email protected] message us there, message us on socials, whatever avenue you want to take. Drop us a five star review below, let us know how much you loved this. Dana, thank you so much for joining me on my soapbox today and for all of the invaluable information that you had to share today. This has been so much fun.

 

Thank you. Awesome you guys can't wait to hear from you. I hope you have a stellar rest of your day and into the week or weekend whatever that looks like today while you're listening to this. We'll catch you next time.

Here’s to the people who make your life incredible. Happy Thanksgiving!

Episode resources:

Reach out to Kiera

Tune Into DAT’s Monthly Webinar

Practice Momentum Group Consulting

Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast

Become Dental A-Team Platinum!

Review the podcast

Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00.856)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and happy Thanksgiving. You guys, if you are new to the podcast, welcome. I'm so happy you're here. If you've been with me for a while, you know this to be true. I love holidays. I love holidays so much. I am so appreciative of holidays because I feel like it's just the time that like takes our autopilot life and puts it actually on pause and.

 

Thanksgiving is honestly my favorite podcast of the entire year. I have so many amazing things to be thankful for and it's always just special of what I'm able to celebrate with our team, celebrate with all of you and just give gratitude and thanks. And every year on Thanksgiving, my husband and I have it as a tradition. We listen to the podcast as soon as we wake up. And I really think it just centers me. It centers me of the gratitude that I have for each of you being a part of the Dental A Team family.

 

Whether you're an active client with us, you've been a client with us, you're a podcast listener, soon to be client with us, my gratitude for you is immense. This was just a girl's dream to be able to help dentists across the nation and their teams. It was a dream for me to help the dentists from Midwestern to be able to live thriving lives and to have their teams flourishing and living thriving lives as well.

 

for people who trusted me and took a risk when I didn't know what I was doing. even today, let me practice on them and make things up and bring things to them and to be open and humble and have fun and make me laugh and challenge me and encourage me is just truly a blessing. For you guys on the podcast to listen and to be raving fans and to share this with people, I don't take this for granted.

 

I know how blessed I am. I dreamed of having a consulting company where it was spanned across the nation, where we were able to serve and help people on this higher level. And it's the reality of the life that I'm living right now. And I don't take that for granted. And I'm so grateful and appreciative of all of you. I also hope that you today take time to thank your team. I think so often we can just go by the wayside and we can not necessarily give out that gratitude and that thanks for what we have. I realized that

 

Kiera Dent (02:04.902)

You can either see teams one of two ways. You can either see them as an asset or a liability. And I choose to see my team as an asset. I choose to see that they're brilliant, that they're smarter than me, that they're the ones who make the magic happen. They're the ones who love our clients so much. They're the ones who come up with the brilliant ideas. They're the ones who make the marketing. They're the ones who do the customer service calls. They're the ones who talk to potential clients. They're the ones who are figuring out the partnerships. They're the ones who make all this dream become a reality. They say teamwork makes the dream work. And I say teamwork.

 

and teens also make the dreams become reality. And so just having maybe a moment of pause and reflection today and maybe sending out some little love bombs to your team and to the people that make your life incredible. I believe that the secret to life and fulfillment is giving and gratitude. And if we can have that sense of gratitude, like today my bracelet, it's the grateful bracelet here. And to have that gratitude, to show gratitude in all that we have, I mean,

 

We are just truly so blessed to be alive at this day and age. We're so blessed to be able to have the technology and the teams and the resources and the life that we get to live. mean, gosh, life is just so magical. And I hope that you see it as magic. And I hope that today of all days, like you take that pause and be grateful for your family, for your health, for your friends, for your team, for your patients, for your community.

 

all these things that make you a person, all these things that make life magical, all those things that add fairy dust and sprinkles to your life. But just to maybe take a moment, maybe reflect, maybe write in your journal, I would encourage you and challenge you to write maybe 100 things that you're grateful for. If you guys want, if you're listening to this before Thanksgiving dinner, you can do it. I've done it in some teams and it's very fun where you put your name on the top of a paper. Shout out to our marketing gal, Eve. She gave me this brilliant idea and I've done it in teams and they absolutely love it.

 

But what you do is you put the person's name at the top of the page and then you send it around the table and everyone writes something that they're so grateful for that person for or something that they love about that person. And then it comes back to you you're able to read this little love note. I've done it in leadership teams. I've done it in full teams. And it's interesting because every time I do it, this is the piece of paper that is stuck up on the walls. This is the thing that saved. This is the thing that's on people's phone savers because to be reminded of that we're loved.

 

Kiera Dent (04:24.98)

is one of the greatest gifts that we can give someone else. So maybe do that with your team, maybe do that with your families, but really truly just showing gratitude today. like I said, Thanksgiving podcast is always my favorite podcast of just giving you guys a tip of gratitude, but also to take this time publicly to thank my incredible team. And I always do a shout out to each of my team members.

 

of a thank you to each of them. And so we just kind of will go through, I go through them from like when they were hired. And so that way it's just really fun. But shout out to the one and only Tiffanie Trader, the spiffy tiffy. has been with me for seven years and Tiff is someone that if you know her, you love her. Tiff just makes life fun. I feel like she's a beautiful yin to my yang. We believe that we were twins in another life. We just happened to get separated this year by a year or this round.

 

Tiff and I actually share the same birthday. We're just one year apart from each other. But I'm so appreciative of Tiff and the grit and the love and the determination she's had to come into a company where there was just a girl with a dream and she bought into that dream and she's run it and she's done it and she's consulted all across the nation and she served so many offices and she's on the podcast with me and she writes the newsletter. She just she makes it fun and she's been with me since the beginning and to have somebody that's really gone through all of it with me.

 

This is something I'm so grateful for. think when you're an owner, and a lot of owners will feel this way, when you have someone who's a ride or die with you that you know you can count on, is something that I think we might take for granted. And it's something that today especially, we don't take for granted. We don't take for granted those people that have made us who we are, that have helped us grow. Like, of course, we've had to bring ourselves to the table, but Tiff is someone who really has been there with me.

 

She's been a rock through so many things. She's been there through all of it with me. And I'm just so appreciative of her and her love and her dedication and her determination to be the best consultant she can be. She's gone through so many growths throughout the company and to watch her just grow and evolve and morph into this incredible consultant is something I'm so appreciative of and just grateful for her going on this fun ride with me. We celebrated seven years together this year and just excited for the next seven and what we can create and make and serve more clients on another level.

 

Kiera Dent (06:37.176)

So that's our one and only spiffy tiffy. And then gosh, like I think my next one is actually no BS Britt. Actually, I think I lied. I think it's Shelbi. Sorry, Shelbi. My order is like, I shouldn't have gone in order. I should just do you guys like in whatever order, but Shelbi, we'll go to Shelbi next. Shelbi, if you don't know Shelbi, you are missing out on one of the most incredible humans. Shelbi has the deepest love for every single person that comes her way. She makes me want to be a better human.

 

She loves our client so much. loves me so much. Shelbi has been my EA, our customer success, and literally the jack of all trades. Like that woman can fit into so many different areas. And to watch her blossom from when I first hired her by knocking on her door, she used to be my next door neighbor and she took care of my tomato plants when I was traveling so much to make sure they wouldn't die, to now taking care of me and our entire team. Shelbi is someone that I am so grateful for, for her love.

 

for her ease every single month in our one-on-ones. We always ask our team who should we celebrate and who should we like give kudos to for going above and beyond and without fail, Shelbi is the number one named teammate of all of our team consistently. Everybody loves Shelbi. Every person that meets Shelbi loves Shelbi. Shelbi is just someone who has a heart of gold, who works hard, who is like this woman loves tasks. She is the person I know I can count on 150 million percent to always follow through.

 

and deliver more than I ever expect. She keeps all the balls in the air. She never misses things. She truly just has so much passion and love and commitment to our company and to our clients. And I am so like eternally grateful that this girl took my awkward knock on her door and then the awkwardness of living as next door neighbors and working together and has just really blossomed into this amazing woman who I trust implicitly with every single thing. And I know she will always be the best example. She will always show up.

 

She will always love, she'll always care, and she literally will make everything beautiful, seamless, and smooth for every single person, and I'm so appreciative of her. Next up is Brittany Stone, no BS, Britt. Brittany is someone that has just truly grown and blossomed, and I love that she is my yin to my yang in the business. She's a consultant, so those of you who get her love her as a consultant. Britt also is our operations within the company, and to have somebody that I can rally with who is not afraid to...

 

Kiera Dent (08:55.64)

give me her opinion and to make sure in the most respectful way that we are really working on what's most important in the company. She's the brakes on the company. She tells me not to do things. She tells me to do things, but to know that I can be on the road and that our team is being led and guided and directed by somebody that I trust and respect in like beyond the beyond is something that I think is such a magical gift that a lot of people I don't think get to experience. And I'm so grateful for Britt. love her, her sass. love her.

 

her thoughtfulness, I love her directness, I love how she communicates to our team, I love how she thinks and processes, I love how Brittany is just someone who everybody loves, everybody wants to get to know Britt and she has such a quiet, gentle nature about her where she genuinely is just so loyal, she's so curious, she's so just wanting to be her best at all times, wanting to make our company just be the best that it can be and I'm just so.

 

So grateful to have somebody like that on my leadership team, personally and professionally, to have her work so closely with me, hand in hand, day in and day out, to have the conversations. She has grown me so much and just helped me see how great she can be in this role. And I'm so appreciative of her and just where she will fill in the gap. She's an incredibly brilliant consultant. She's a brilliant business and just someone that I feel so lucky to know. We have Ms. Dana is, gosh, Dana.

 

She just is incredible. She is that employee that you never have to worry about. never like they're always just doing more than you ever expected. Dana is such a steady Eddie for me. And she also has the freaking funniest stories of anybody like that girl does not travel as much as the rest of us do. And every time she travels, I don't know what it is. She comes back with the craziest travel stories of all of us and Dana with her consistency and her commitment to clients and her love and her true internal growth. Dana is a warrior.

 

And I just love her. I love her so much. I love who she is. I love her drive. I love how she makes me want to be a better person. Dana loves so deeply and she will forever continue to grow herself. She's the person that's the easiest for me to have uncomfortable conversations with because she just takes it. She gets it and she executes and implements. She's also the person who is constantly behind the scenes making things happen. She always wants another project. She wants to grow. She encourages me to work out. She encourages me to love my clients better. Dana is just someone who has this heart of gold that I feel.

 

Kiera Dent (11:20.15)

so ridiculously blessed is on my team, is an example to me, is someone like, and I don't get to talk to Dana as much as others, but I'm always watching Dana and I'm observing her and I'm watching how incredibly talented and gifted this woman is. And I'm just so grateful for her. We can not go without talking about Miss Eve. Eve is a, gosh, I think Eve, if we would not have met through Dental A Team, we would have found each other in some way in this world. Eve is one of the most incredibly talented marketers.

 

I've ever had. She's come into this company and she gets my vision and she delivers to me impeccable work every single time. I can tell Eve this is what my vision is and Eve makes it magic. She does it with so much grace and ease and she's so freaking funny. Like you should talk her about her hobby horse. This is a real thing. You should talk her about like all the fun things. She makes us laugh. She's like entertainment within our company and she's also somebody where I just love who she is. I love her outlook, her outlook on life. I love who she is as a person. I love what she stands for.

 

I love her journey. I love the humor she brings. And honestly, we call it the Eve adds her pixie dust, but we've made it marketing where it's the pixel dust to everything. So when you see beautiful things everywhere, Eve just puts her heart and soul into it. She's an incredible artist, an incredible designer, incredible marketer, comes with great ideas and her passion and love for marketing, for her family, for our company, for our clients, for our team.

 

is something that I am just awe inspired by and so grateful. She's in my life personally and professionally and that you guys all get to experience Eve through anything. She's at our monthly webinars. If you're not attending those or the Thirsty Thursdays, the third Thursday of the month, be sure to join us. Eve has taken that on. She grows herself, but gosh, this woman is just chef's kiss of beauty that she creates for our company and does it with so much grace and ease.

 

We also have Jacintha who's part of our marketing team and Jacintha has come she's from the Netherlands and I love Jacintha's grit, her determination. She's also super funny. She makes me laugh. But whenever we give you something a problem or a project, she is just like bloodhound on it and she will go she will drive, she will figure out how to do this. And I'm so appreciative of her grit and her stamina and the things that this woman does. She has come in with this

 

Kiera Dent (13:29.214)

unrelentless determination to be the best to figure out dentistry and when they present the two marketers never coming from dentistry, gosh, I am just amazed and wowed at the love, the passion, the grit, the desire to become the best and to be associated with two marketers. Eve and Jacintha, our marketing department is incredible. does all, Jacintha does all of our, all of our social media and so many of the designs you guys see out there.

 

That is you synthesis magic and she is just constantly making sure things are smooth and easy and I'm so appreciative of her. And then last but not least is Miss Kristy and Kristy coming onto our team and just being this amazing consultant that has love and dedication and determination and she just is so brilliant at what she does. She brings this sense of calm and ease and fun and I'm so excited for clients working with her and to get to work with her because this woman's knowledge is unmet.

 

compared to all of the other, like she just has this knowledge and this love of dentistry. When I was looking for our next consultant, I made this little wish list and I said, I want them to just have so much passion and love for dentistry. And Kristy has that and she has the knowledge and she's got the experience and she's just this, she just ignites and exudes so much love for what we have. And I'm just so, so, so grateful for her on our team. Our team is incredible and our team has just.

 

morphed over the years and I'm so thankful for those who have been a part of Dental A Team that have made us the great people we are. I obviously would be remiss if I didn't shout out my husband Jason. Jason's just, he's my ride or die. Jason has gone through so much. You guys should all be grateful the countless hours this man does with me early in the morning, late at night, letting me talk his ear off about the podcast and our clients and all the different things. And he's just constantly there for me I just love him and I'm so grateful for him. My coaches, Liz and Kareen and

 

my trainers and like all the different people who make me who I am, all of our sponsors, all the people that make us great, all the people that we have affiliates with, all the trainers, all like literally every single person, whether you're a client, whether you're a sponsor, whether you're a listener, whomever you are, you have this magic touch on my life that allows me to be able to be here to podcast with you, to do these pieces with you. And I'm so appreciative of all of you. I'm appreciative of you making.

 

Kiera Dent (15:45.274)

where we are in this world of dentistry, great. I'm so grateful that you love your patients and you love dentistry and you want to be the best you can be. And I'm here to say, go spread those magic love bombs, go do the magic today and tell someone, tell five people, thank you for what they do because it will not only fill their cups, but it will overflow you of just the love and the magic that you get to experience living this life today at this special.

 

specific time. with that, go enjoy your magical Thanksgiving. Go love on those family members. Go be grateful for the health that you have and to be alive in today's world. And thank you so much for being a part of the Dental A Team podcast. So much love. All the kisses, all the love. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.