The Dental CEO Podcast

The rules of dental student loans just changed, and most dentists have no idea what it means for them.

The One Big Beautiful Bill Act capped federal student loans at $200,000 for dental students, down from a system that previously allowed borrowers to cover the full cost of attendance. For dental schools that cost $600,000 to $1,000,000 to attend, that means the gap now has to be filled with private loans at rates as high as 18%, requiring co-signers and offering zero forgiveness options. In practical terms, the Big Beautiful Bill just made dental school twice as expensive for most incoming students.

In this episode, Scott Leune sits down with Dan Rooker, founder of Grad Loan Advice and one of the country's few Certified Student Loan Professionals, to break down exactly what changed and what every current dentist and dental student needs to know.

Dan and Scott cover:

• Why the $200,000 federal loan cap will change the financial trajectory of every dentist graduating from 2026 forward
• The difference between federal and private loans and why private loans are now the biggest debt burden
• The Repayment Assistance Program strategy that can reduce your first-year payment to $10 per month
• How to use tax filing timing to eliminate an entire year of interest accrual
• Why forgiveness exists on federal loans but not private, and what that means for your career decisions
• The specific circumstances where filing married-filing-separately can save borrowers thousands
• Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) opportunities most dentists never consider
• The one-time-only 1% autopay discount deadline that could save $6,000+ on a $600K loan
• Why every new dentist needs a student loan consultant on their team alongside their CPA and financial planner

Whether you're a dental student, a new graduate carrying debt, or a practice owner still working through your own loans, this episode delivers the tactical, timely information most dentists never get.

Learn more about Dan Rooker and Grad Loan Advice: gradloanadvice.com

Special offer for Dental CEO Podcast listeners: Dan is extending a discounted rate on his one-hour student loan consultation for anyone who mentions the show.

🎧 Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts: dentalceopodcast.com

Selling your dental practice to a DSO? Some dentists who took part of their payout in DSO equity may end up with nothing to show for it.

In this episode, Scott Leune sits down with Kevin Cumbus, founder and president of Tusk Practice Sales, to break down what's really happening in the DSO market today and how to protect yourself before you sell. Kevin's firm has completed about $1.5 billion in dental practice transactions over the last decade, exclusively representing dentists who are selling.

Of the roughly 150 private equity-backed DSOs today, about half have stopped acquiring practices. One prominent attorney in the space believes 30–40% of them won't recover, which means the equity dentists rolled into those DSOs could be worthless.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• What happened to the DSO market, and why lower interest rates alone won't fix it
• How valuations have shifted: a $1M EBITDA practice that traded at 8–9x in 2021 is closer to 6–7x today
• Why smaller groups ($1M–$3M EBITDA) are holding their value while larger groups are penalized for risk
• What private equity looks for in a platform, and how that differs from selling to an existing DSO
• How deal structures have changed, from 80% cash at close to 70/30 or 60/40 cash-to-equity
• The difference between HoldCo equity and joint venture (JV) equity, and why it matters for your payout
• Management fees of 3–8% of revenue, and what they can do to your distributions
• How to keep growing and share in the upside after you sell
• Why the highest offer isn't always the right one

Whether you own one practice or a growing group, this episode will help you understand your options before a DSO comes calling.

⏱️ Timestamps

• 00:00 Intro
• 02:09 Meet Kevin Cumbus of Tusk Practice Sales
• 04:45 What happened to the DSO market
• 06:38 Why 30–40% of DSOs may not recover
• 09:52 Why five-year employment agreements are now a problem
• 11:57 DSO 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0: the rise of JV equity
• 13:53 Valuations then vs. now
• 16:29 How multiples change by EBITDA size
• 18:16 Multiple arbitrage and "growing down" your multiple
• 22:18 What private equity looks for in a platform
• 24:23 Deal structures: private equity vs. DSO
• 31:38 The truth about management fees
• 37:26 Selling while still growing
• 41:28 Choosing the right partner, not just the highest offer
• 46:11 A message of hope for private dentists

🔗 Connect with Kevin Cumbus and Tusk Practice Sales: [TUSK WEBSITE]

💰 This episode is sponsored by the Private Dental Alliance, helping private dentists get DSO-level pricing on equipment, supplies, and lab fees. Text SAVINGS to 48659 to see how much you could save.

🎧 Listen and subscribe: https://dentalceopodcast.com

Available on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and Spotify.

Dr. Divya Patel was two years out of dental school when she made a decision most dentists take a decade to make: open her own startup instead of buying an established practice.

In this episode, Scott sits down with Dr. Patel to unpack why she walked away from Toronto's acquisition market and built Pearl Dental Studio from the ground up instead. They break down the real math behind "buying a practice twice," once to acquire it, and again to actually fix it into your vision, and why that math made a startup the lower-risk path for her, not the riskier one.

In this episode:

• Why acquiring an established practice can cost more long-term than building one from scratch
• What it actually costs to open a five-op startup in Toronto today, and how Canadian dentists access funding
• How Dr. Patel built a patient experience around comfort and quality instead of volume and insurance-driven case mix
• What it's like to bet on yourself as a young dentist, before a spouse, before kids, before "waiting until you're ready" starts costing you years
• Her 2-3 year vision for the practice, including plans for a second location

Learn more about Pearl Dental Studio: pearldentalstudio.ca | pearl.dental.studio

If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Dental CEO Podcast and leave a review, it helps other dentists find these conversations.

🎧 Listen now: www.dentalceopodcast.com

ChatGPT just rolled out ads for small businesses, and dentists are already testing it, often with no idea what they're doing.

In this episode, Scott Leune sits down with Bill Donato, founder of DentalMarketing.com, to break down what's actually working in dental marketing right now: ChatGPT ads, Google Ads, AI-powered SEO, and a channel most dentists have written off as outdated: direct mail.

Bill has spent over a decade running marketing for dental practices across the U.S. and Canada, and he pulls back the curtain on where new opportunity actually lives versus where dentists are wasting budget.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why ChatGPT ads are in their "early Google Ads" phase right now, and what that means for cost per click while the window is open
• The tracking problem almost no one is talking about: why your ChatGPT campaign might show zero conversions when it's actually working
• What a "conversion event" really is, and why setting it up correctly matters more than your ad copy or budget
• Why direct mail is quietly outperforming digital ads on a cost basis: one mail piece can cost the same as a single Google click, but reach 20 households
• The "new mover" mail strategy top practices use to reach families before they've even started searching for a dentist
• Why mailers boost your SEO and Google rankings, even when the recipient never calls
• How to build a marketing strategy that layers AI-enabled SEO, Google Ads, direct mail, and ChatGPT ads instead of betting everything on one channel
• What to do differently if you're opening a new practice versus scaling an existing one, including why marketing should start 3-6 months before your doors open

Whether you're evaluating a new marketing channel or auditing whether your current one is actually delivering, this episode gives you a clear, practical framework for where to invest next.

Connect with Bill Donato:
Website: dentalmarketing.com (free marketing analysis available)
Email: [email protected]

🎧 Listen now: dentalceopodcast.com
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Last week's episode challenged the traditional path to retirement. This week, Scott Leune gets tactical: what should you actually be doing in dentistry, right now, at your specific age, to make that philosophy real?

In Part 2 of this series, Scott walks through the exact practice models that align with the semi-retire-twice framework, breaking down what each decade of a dental career should look like and why.

Scott breaks down:

• Why age 26 to 35 should be about high income and low costs, and why becoming a practice owner as fast as possible is the single biggest lever for building wealth in this decade
• Why the highest-earning associates usually make even better-earning owners, and why staying an associate too long can quietly cap your ceiling
• Two specific ways to structure a practice so you can drop to part-time in your late 30s and 40s without losing income, including dropping insurance plans for fee-for-service and building a "big case only" schedule
• How replacing yourself with associates the right way can get your personal overhead down to 10%, letting you take home the majority of what you produce on just one clinical day a week
• Why age 46 to 65 can become your highest-earning, highest-impact decade, and how adding practices during this phase builds both income and a business worth selling
• What it actually looks like to reach 65 without burnout, with a healthy family, a nest egg, and a new chapter built around passion instead of retirement

If you've ever wondered whether you're in the right decade doing the right things, or whether you need a complete reset, this episode gives you the specific dental practice models to actually make the shift.

🎧 Listen and subscribe: https://dentalceopodcast.com

What if the traditional retirement plan, work hard for 40 years and finally retire at 65, is actually the reason so many dentists end up burned out, broke on experiences, and full of regret?

In Part 1 of this two-part series, Scott Leune revisits a post he wrote 16 years ago that challenged everything he'd been taught about building wealth and retiring. Instead of one big retirement at the end of a career, Scott lays out a philosophy of semi-retiring twice: once during the years your kids need you most, and again once you've built enough wealth to slow down for good.

Scott breaks down:

• Why the traditional "work hard, save, retire at 65" path leads to the most common regrets he's heard from wealthy people, again and again
• The four life phases (18-25, 26-35, 36-45, 46-65) and what your income, savings, and schedule should look like in each one
• Why your 20s and early 30s should be about high income and low costs, not lifestyle upgrades
• How to structure your practice so you can drop to two or three days a week during the years your family needs you most
• Why your late 40s through 60s can become your highest-earning, highest-impact years, if you've set yourself up correctly
• How this philosophy applies directly to practice ownership, associateships, and the timing of buying, building, or selling a practice

This episode lays the groundwork for a bigger conversation. In Part 2, Scott will get tactical, walking through the specific dental practice models that make semi-retiring twice actually possible at each stage of your career.

If you've ever felt like the traditional path to retirement doesn't match the life you actually want to live, this episode will change how you think about your career, your family, and your money.

Episode 80: There's a good chance you've never heard of DHP. While Schein, Patterson, Darby, and Benco dominate the conversation around dental equipment and supplies, DHP has quietly built a 35-plus-year, privately held, family-owned business that Scott says delivers strong pricing and personal service, without the brand recognition to match.

Scott sits down with Dale Roberts, DHP's founder and CEO, and Nick Roberts, COO, to unpack what makes the company different, across both equipment and everyday supplies. Rather than steering dentists toward a narrow list of premium brands, DHP shows the full range of options, from budget-friendly to premium, and lets the dentist decide what's actually right for their practice. That same $15,000 "workhorse" chair some distributors recommend often has a $4,000-$5,000 equivalent that performs just as well, and DHP is the company willing to show dentists that option exists.

They also get into how tariffs have driven up pricing on gloves and other everyday supplies over the past year, squeezing dentist margins at the same time patients have less to spend, and how DHP's service model, real technicians' dentists can call directly rather than an impersonal dispatch system, extends across both equipment repair and ongoing supply relationships. Dale and Nick share what they're seeing across the industry right now: flat patient volume since 2009, new tariff-driven pricing pressure, a slowdown in DSO growth tied to higher interest rates, and why private practice ownership is still thriving despite it all.

In this episode:

• Who DHP is, and how a privately held, family-owned company built a 35-plus-year track record across equipment and supplies
• Why DHP shows dentists a full range of equipment options across different price points
• How tariffs have driven up pricing on everyday supplies like gloves, and what that's done to dentist margins
• How DHP handles repair and service, with real technicians dentists can call directly
• The real price difference between a premium patient chair and one that performs just as well
• How DSO pricing structures compare to what private dentists typically see
• What's really happening with dental industry trends: patient flow, tariffs, and DSO growth
• Scott's strategy for financing equipment like CBCTs and scanners separately from your startup loan

Learn more: dhpsupply.com

🎧 Listen now: www.dentalceopodcast.com
🔔 Subscribe: www.dentalceopodcast.com

Episode 79: In 2019, a 22-year-old flew from Dublin to Texas to take three of Scott's courses back-to-back, so eager to learn he came back a second time just to finish the one he missed. Eight years later, that same dentist has built Truly Dental into Europe's largest full arch implant group, 15 locations across Ireland and the UK, on pace to cross $100 million in annual revenue. Now he's setting his sights on the U.S., and he says he can do it cheaper, and just as good.

In this episode, Scott sits down with Mo Shirin to unpack exactly how. Truly manufactures its own implants and prosthetics in-house, down to the submicron level, cutting out the markup baked into nearly every implant sold in the U.S. Mo explains that the actual manufacturing cost of an implant is under 10 cents, yet dentists are routinely charged $200-$250 a piece. Some of his early U.S. patients were flying to Ireland after being quoted 600% more at home for the same procedure, and Truly was still making a healthy margin at a fraction of that price.

This isn't a race to the bottom. Mo walks through how vertical integration, owning the lab, the manufacturing, and the training, lets Truly deliver full arch care at a dramatically lower cost without cutting corners on quality, and why he believes that combination is what will let Truly compete directly with, and outperform, U.S. incumbents once they officially enter the market.

In this episode:

• How Mo went from Scott's seminar room at 22 to founder of Europe's largest full arch group
• Why Truly manufactures its own implants and prosthetics, and how that cuts cost without cutting quality
• The real manufacturing cost of an implant versus what dentists are typically charged
• Why U.S. patients were flying to Ireland and paying less, even after travel
• How Truly scaled from a single Dublin practice to 15 locations across Ireland and the UK
• The pivot from general dentistry to full arch implants, and why it changed everything financially
• Mo's plan, and reasoning, for entering the U.S. market to compete directly with incumbents
• Mo's philosophy on ego, mentorship, and betting on yourself before you feel ready

Learn more about Mo and Truly Dental: trulydental.ie
Surgical training facility: livepatientdubai.com
Implant manufacturing lab: https://borislabs.ie

🎧 Listen now: www.dentalceopodcast.com
🔔 Subscribe: www.dentalceopodcast.com

Episode 78: Scott sits down again with Justin Warcup, a pediatric dentist in Dallas-Fort Worth, to break down the numbers behind pediatric airway dentistry and the system he built to scale it, called the BRĒTH Method. Cases run $4,000 to $9,000, case acceptance sits at 52%, and in just three months of focused marketing, Justin scaled from 4–5 cases a month to averaging $130K+ a month, increasing his profit by an estimated $1.4 million on top of his existing practice revenue.

They dig into the real math: why the procedure costs so little to deliver, and why Justin says it's simpler clinically than routine cases most general dentists already do every day.

In this episode:

• The exact fee range behind this procedure ($4,000–$9,000 per case)
• The case acceptance numbers: 52%
• How averaging $130K+ a month in new case starts breaks down to roughly 90% profit
• What the clinical treatment actually looks like, and why it's simpler than most dentists assume
• Who can realistically add this to their practice (pediatric dentists, general dentists, and orthodontists)
• Info on Justin's upcoming BRĒTH Method training event in Dallas-Fort Worth (September 18–19)

Learn more about the BRĒTH Method: justinwarcup.com

If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Dental CEO Podcast and leave a review, it helps other dentists find these conversations.

🎧 Listen now: www.dentalceopodcast.com

Episode 77: Is there ever really a "right time" to start a practice? In this episode of the Dental CEO Podcast, Scott sits down with Dr. Stamatis Kouniaris and his wife Katarina, a practicing attorney, to talk about one of the boldest timing decisions a young family can make: launching a dental startup in Canada while raising three kids under five, including a newborn just one month old.

Just a month after opening Ilios Dentaire, Stamatis and Katarina are already booked out three to four weeks, adding a hygienist, and hiring a second assistant, all while juggling final construction details, working capital, and the everyday chaos of a young family. They open up about why they chose a startup over an acquisition, how financing and insurance structures shaped their decisions, what it's really like when one spouse is a dentist and the other is navigating life alongside the build, and why they believe waiting for the "right time" often means waiting forever.

Whether you're weighing a startup against an acquisition, wondering how kids factor into the timeline, or just want an honest look at the first month of practice ownership, this conversation is a real, unfiltered look at building a business and a family at the same time.

Topics covered: startup vs. acquisition decisions, financing and lending strategy, insurance and fee structures, balancing parenthood with practice ownership, and the value of coaching during a startup build.

See photos and videos of Ilios Dentaire on Instagram: @ilios.dentaire

If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Dental CEO Podcast and leave a review, it helps other dentists find these conversations.