"Moment of Zen"

The Middle Class Myth and China’s Future with Noah Smith


Listen Later

Today on Moment of Zen, Erik Torenberg and Noah Smith debunk the myth that globalization destroyed America's middle class, showing wages actually grew during hyperglobalization. It examines the limited "China shock" impact and critiques how both political tribes' technology fears may handicap America's competitiveness against China.


--

📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 


🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse


--

SPONSORS: NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | ADQUICK | SQUAD

Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.


Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.


The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit https://adquick.com/ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.


Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.


--

X / TWITTER:

@noahpinion

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

--


HIGHLIGHTS OF THE DISCUSSION:

Main Argument

  • Myth: Globalization hollowed out America's middle class
  • Reality: Middle class moved UP income brackets; wages grew 40% during peak globalization

    Real Causes

    • 1973 oil shock caused wage stagnation (70s-80s), not globalization
    • China shock (2000s): Only 2M manufacturing jobs lost, limited scope

      America vs. China

      • US: Less globalized than most countries; only 4% manufacturing trade deficit
      • China: Cities will look shabby in 30 years; exports falling as % of GDP

        Political Technology Paralysis

        • Republicans: Fear hardware (solar, batteries, EVs)
        • Progressives: Fear software (AI, social media)
        • Both sides handicapping American tech leadership while China advances

        • ...more
          View all episodesView all episodes
          Download on the App Store

          "Moment of Zen"By Erik Torenberg, Dan Romero, Antonio Garcia Martinez

          • 4.1
          • 4.1
          • 4.1
          • 4.1
          • 4.1

          4.1

          87 ratings


          More shows like "Moment of Zen"

          View all
          This Week in Startups by Jason Calacanis

          This Week in Startups

          1,273 Listeners

          a16z Podcast by Andreessen Horowitz

          a16z Podcast

          1,040 Listeners

          Conversations with Tyler by Mercatus Center at George Mason University

          Conversations with Tyler

          2,395 Listeners

          ManifoldOne by Steve Hsu

          ManifoldOne

          90 Listeners

          All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg by All-In Podcast, LLC

          All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

          9,236 Listeners

          Dwarkesh Podcast by Dwarkesh Patel

          Dwarkesh Podcast

          428 Listeners

          Razib Khan's Unsupervised Learning by Razib Khan

          Razib Khan's Unsupervised Learning

          198 Listeners

          Joe Lonsdale: American Optimist by Joe Lonsdale

          Joe Lonsdale: American Optimist

          164 Listeners

          No Priors: Artificial Intelligence | Technology | Startups by Conviction

          No Priors: Artificial Intelligence | Technology | Startups

          121 Listeners

          "The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis by Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenz

          "The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

          87 Listeners

          "Upstream" with Erik Torenberg by Erik Torenberg

          "Upstream" with Erik Torenberg

          60 Listeners

          Pirate Wires by Pirate Wires

          Pirate Wires

          125 Listeners

          "In The Arena" by Turpentine

          "In The Arena"

          16 Listeners

          The Hill & Valley Forum Podcast by Jacob Helberg, Delian Asparouhov, Christian Garrett

          The Hill & Valley Forum Podcast

          11 Listeners

          "Econ 102" with Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg by Turpentine

          "Econ 102" with Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg

          146 Listeners

          "Turpentine VC" | Venture Capital and Investing by Erik Torenberg

          "Turpentine VC" | Venture Capital and Investing

          21 Listeners

          "Tech Finance" with Sasha Orloff: B2B Fintech | AI | Finance Tech by Puzzle, Turpentine

          "Tech Finance" with Sasha Orloff: B2B Fintech | AI | Finance Tech

          43 Listeners

          "1 to 1000" | Scaling Startups with CEOs by Turpentine

          "1 to 1000" | Scaling Startups with CEOs

          2 Listeners

          "The Riff" with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg by Byrne Hobart, Erik Torenberg

          "The Riff" with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg

          20 Listeners

          "Live Players" with Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg by Turpentine

          "Live Players" with Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg

          39 Listeners

          BG2Pod with Brad Gerstner and Bill Gurley by BG2Pod

          BG2Pod with Brad Gerstner and Bill Gurley

          469 Listeners

          History 102 with WhatifAltHist's Rudyard Lynch and Austin Padgett by Turpentine

          History 102 with WhatifAltHist's Rudyard Lynch and Austin Padgett

          150 Listeners

          Emergent Behavior by Turpentine

          Emergent Behavior

          7 Listeners

          "WhatifAlthist" | World History, Philosophy, Culture by Rudyard Lynch

          "WhatifAlthist" | World History, Philosophy, Culture

          76 Listeners

          "Autopilot" with Will Summerlin by Will Summerlin | Turpentine

          "Autopilot" with Will Summerlin

          5 Listeners

          "Company Breakdowns" by Turpentine

          "Company Breakdowns"

          5 Listeners

          Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11) by Patrick McKenzie

          Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11)

          123 Listeners

          "Second Opinion" with Christina Farr, Ash Zenooz MD & Luba Greenwood JD by Christina Farr, Luba Greenwood, Ash Zenooz

          "Second Opinion" with Christina Farr, Ash Zenooz MD & Luba Greenwood JD

          16 Listeners

          "1 to 100" | Hypergrowth Startups Worth Joining by Turpentine, Why You Should Join

          "1 to 100" | Hypergrowth Startups Worth Joining

          0 Listeners

          "This Won't Last" with Keith Rabois, Kevin Ryan, Logan Bartlett, and Zach Weinberg by Turpentine, Keith Rabois, Logan Bartlett, Zach Weinberg, Kevin Ryan

          "This Won't Last" with Keith Rabois, Kevin Ryan, Logan Bartlett, and Zach Weinberg

          17 Listeners

          "Modern Relationships" by Erik Torenberg, Turpentine

          "Modern Relationships"

          8 Listeners