Bebo Norman sits down with Andrew as they recount starting music careers before the internet, crashing on couches and playing YoungLife camps, starting families and investing in community, and ultimately putting down the guitar and starting over in a completely new career.

Today's guest is Ellie Holcomb. We talk about growing up never wanting to be a musician, YoungLife camp, her time as a middle school teacher, and what led to her leaving her husband's successful band to start her own solo career.

It's our first episode! We begin with our guest Dave Barnes. Dave is a successful singer/songwriter, hit country songwriter, occasional comedian, and a deep thinker. This felt like the right interview to lead the series as we talk about careers, Billy Joel, idolatry, and why we need a bar mitzvah for guys quitting music.

Welcome to the Pivot. Stories of people who have made a change.