The Running for Real Podcast

RunFar is one of the premier trail running and ultra running websites. They have everything you could ever need. I have not yet completed either a trail or an ultra race, but people like Bryon and Meghan make me more and more tempted...once I can run properly again.

This is the podcast that is packed with helpful information on how to excel on trail and ultra races, from two people who know it better than almost anyone else. They are experienced, they get in depth interviews with the most elite and most experienced ultra runners out there, and they are constantly researching more, to give us everything we could ever need.

We chat about post run (and pre race) interviews, and why they are so appealing. Could it be that we like seeing that human side of people, seeing the triumphs and tragedies, watching their stories unfold.  There is something so appealing for runners just chatting to other runners, those who understand us and support us.

We discuss Bryon leaving his job to focus on iRunFar (even though at the time he was only making about $200 a month!!), and how to know if your blog is worth pursuing.

I ask them for 3 tips on how to be successful in trail and ultra marathon races, and why a good support network is absolutely critical, especially when your motivation has gone.

This episode is for you if you already love trail and ultra races or have one in your mind for sometime in the future. Bryon and Meghan have so much wisdom from all their years of working in the running world, and they are here to share it with you. If you want the truth, not the paid sponsorship, but real, honest reviews and feedback, this is for you.

Bryon Powell and Meghan Hicks

Founders of iRunFar, Bryon Powell and Meghan Hicks have more wisdom and experience for ultra and trail runners than almost anyone else. Listen to how this super website came about, and what they have learned from the best ultra runners in the world (Meghan being one of them!).

• Why Bryon quit his job as an attorney and moved to Yosemite to work on his small scale running blog (and now look where iRunFar is!)
• Their thoughts on the future of ultra and trail running, and if it will continue to grow...and why there is a difference between the US and European trail/ultra running.
• Why two runners just having a discussion, no matter what level, ability, or speed, is one of the most cherished things a runner can experience.
• Bryon and Meghan 3 tips for runners looking to do their first trail or ultra race (after interviewing hundreds of runners, and their own experiences, these are fantastic!).
• How to choose which ultra or trail race to do (and why the famous ones are not necessarily best)
• How to know if trail/ultra races are worth a try for you
• How to pick apparel, shoes, and gear for ultra races

One of the funnest things about trail and ultra running, is that it is a sport that requires both a fit body, but also a wise mind.- Meghan

I don't think as the years go on, I necessarily perform better just because I have done more events, I think I have to be fit in order to physically perform well.- Meghan

The more events you do, the wiser you do get, and you get to see, sometimes wisdom can surmount physical fitness.- Meghan

Runners let their guards down, tell these real stories of sometimes trials, sometimes tragedies in the racing aspect, not through human tragedy, but through racing tragedy, and the organic low key aspect we try to do helps.- Meghan

The ultramarathon experience lends itself to a good story.- Meghan

Sometimes you can be doing things for years and years and years, and then suddenly it just catches on in a whole new way at a whole new level.-Bryon

If you are going to do something solo, stick to not only what you know best, but what you enjoy the best. Theres really no point in trying to become something if its not what excites you or what interests you.- Bryon

Nutrition is an underlooked component in ultras, it is also the hardest part to nail. Practice really does make perfect when it comes to nutrition. - Meghan

Pick something that really lights your fire. This has to be fun, so pick a race that requires you to run trails that are interesting to you or run routes that really light you up, so on the days your body is feeling tired, your mind is still really into it.- Meghan

Follow your passion, something that is just gonna keep you motivated from beginning of your training to your race. It has gotta be something you enjoy, just cause something is famous, if it is gonna be a miserable experience for you, don't make that your first ultra. Make it something that will light your fire. - Bryon

You have to make some mistakes to learn how things work and how your body reacts and how your mind reacts to the later part of the race. Mistakes are an inevitable part of being an ultra runner. The key is to not make the same mistake twice.- Meghan

If you are being a student of the sport, and being patient and persistent in your training over the years, there is just a downward trend. There can't be a elimination or error or just bad circumstance or fatigue in an ultra marathon. Its just gonna happen sometimes, to everybody. - Bryon

• Last week's episode with Steve Jones
• Episode with Magda Boulet
• iRunFar Western States Page
• Hard Rock 100 
• Ultimate Direction Hydration Vest
• iRunFar website

Steve Jones is one of the legends of the running world. Breaking the world record in his debut marathon (2:08:05) without changing his Mars bar, meat pie, and Coca Cola diet(!). He went on to win the Toronto, New York, and London Marathons...Including taking a bathroom break at the 23 mile mark of the London marathon, and still winning. He shares that story in full for the first time today, and we discuss how he didn't let stomach issues derail his plan to be the best.

Steve was given the nickname the King of Pain for his ability to push harder in running than anyone else, and his coach said he had an insatiable appetite for hard work. Steve never missed an opportunity, taking every chance to race he could, and he explains why he thinks all of us should race more, especially if it means we can explore a new city or place.

We compare training and racing like baking a cake, and Steve explains why just one missing ingredient or step could lead to disaster in a race, but at the end of the day, we have to look internally to see how we were not ready.

Steve is honest, real, and doesn't hold anything back, this episode is for you if you love to hear about running without complications, at a time when running was just getting out there and being the best you can be. Steve will be real with us, sharing the ups, and especially the downs that took him from running around mountains for run with his friends, to being the best in the world.

Steve Jones

Former World Record holder in the marathon, finished 8th in the Olympics, and known for being able to handle a punishing pace from the start of any race, better than anyone else.

• Steve's upbringing and how a lack of structure in his running and racing allowed him to just have fun and enjoy every opportunity
• Why he was given the nickname "the fox"
• How to cope with the stressors and situations that come up in races
• Why runners get in trouble in races and feel like they are mentally giving up (and what is actually going on)
• Why his training is 100% effort based, and why every runner should consider switching to this type of training
• How he has changed his philosophy now he is coaching other runners, and how he realized "not everyone is Steve Jones"

Exercise was a way of release I suppose. Today it is all mental with games and technology, but our release was going out and running in the mountains.

It wasn't technology, it wasn't science, it was just running every day.

When you are running well, especially in that sort of situation, where its head to head with yourself and the next best guy, trying to win, those things really don't bother you very much.

I spotted a headline just yesterday about how to manage your threshold run, I run threshold all the time, so I learned that very quickly. Now it is a specific workout, but I did it every day. I trained hard, and when I raced, wherever it was; UK, the US, Europe, when the gun went, I always went off hard...I always gave it 100%.

Everything was progressive. We didn't just jump in at the deep end straight away. Going from 60 miles a week to 65 to 70 miles a week, those incremental increases and small increases year in year out, helped me develop that strength.

It wasn't about trying to win the races, it wasn't about being a superstar, I just wanted to beat that SOB in front of me. It was one step at a time. I never had dreams, I never dreamt I was going to break a world record, I never dreamt I would run 27:39 for 10k, I just kept trying and trying, and I was never disappointed.

You have to take the rough with the smooth and most times in sport, there is a lot more rough than there is smooth.

Racing and running gets to be more than a hobby. Although in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, it was just a hobby, you don't learn anything by just going out and training every day.

Because my training was effort based, I didn't need to know how fast I was going, how far I was going, I just needed to know when to start and when to stop.

You are racing other people, not your watch. You are racing the distance, not your watch. You are racing the 5k, 10k, 1/2 marathon, 10 miler and the 13,000 other people racing side by side with you. You are racing those people.

People are more OCD about going for a run than they are about trying to improve their running.

I am the quintessential club runner that became good. I came from nothing. No talent, no running equipment, a pair of Woolworths plimsolls, to being the best in the world.

• Last week's episode with my husband Steve
• Tina's effort based Marathon Training Plan
• Tina's effort based Half Marathon Training Plan
• Steve's facebook
• Steve's twitter

Thanks to Generation UCAN for sponsoring this podcast, you can get 15% off your order by visiting this link and using code RUNNING4REAL.

My husband Steve is on the Running for Real podcast this week in this special edition for my birthday in a few days. This episode is essentially broken into three parts; the serious training and how you can be a faster runner, his version of my amenorrhea recovery, what life is like with a pregnant Tina.

We discuss training philosophies and the mistakes runners make over and over again...and why it leads to injuries and disappointing results if you do not correct the training mistakes. We talk about why effort based training really is the best way to approach your running, regardless of where in the world you live or what you are training for. Steve talks about collegiate running, and how he learned what worked best for each athlete, situation, and location.

We then talk about dealing with the loss of periods, and my decision to stop running at the pro level to get my menstrual cycles to return. He also shares why he is proud of me (ahh). Although I haven't had any particularly strange cravings, you will laugh at what we do share.

We dive into the past, the present, and the future, and this is one to get a closer look into the life of this husband and wife. Steve may be a LOT quieter and less open than me, but I think you are going to love getting to know him.

Steve Picucci

My husband, coach, and resident psychologist. Steve is the Head Coach at Division I university Morehead State in Kentucky, he coached me through all my PB's and has helped hundreds of other runners to run faster than they ever thought they could.

• Last week's episode with Bonnie Kelly
• Tina & Steve's effort based Marathon Training Plan
• Tina & Steve's effort based Half Marathon Training Plan

Thanks to GetVi for sponsoring the Running for Real Podcast, you can enter to win a free VI, by clicking this link.

If you saw Bonnie Kelly on the streets, you would never imagine how her story began. Bonnie is a true example of not allowing your misfortunes and struggles to hold you back.

Her powerful story will have you sucked in the entire time, and you will learn about the personal and emotional responsibility she had to take for her abusive past.

Bonnie gets very real with us (it is running for real after all), and she gives fantastic advice about how to change your thinking if you feel like you are not enough, you feel insecure, you feel like you don't fit in, don't matter, or don't belong...doesnt that hit the entire population? ;)

I absolutely love the way Bonnie uses analogies to really show just how negative we actually are, and how much we want to sabotage ourselves. This episode will help you figure out where you judged yourself when you shouldn't, and will help you loosen the grip around those thoughts that make you feel useless and not good enough.

This is a powerful episode, and I know you are going to love it. This can make a huge difference to our running, and in a world where all we see is the set up snapshots of others lives, this will go a long way to making you see that you ARE enough!

This podcast episode is for you if you want to improve your mental toughness, belief in yourself, and strength.

Bonnie Kelly

A motivational speaker, author of True to Your Core, and mental coach. Bonnie is helping you get out of your way, so you can get on with your life!

What You Will Learn About

• Bonnie's story of abuse and a troubled childhood and how she turned her life around
• Why we do so well at resolutions or challenges, but fail to keep them up afterwards
• Why your brain is essentially full of programs and apps that sometimes become outdated and need removing or updating
• How our identity and self-worth is tied to our beliefs, and what we can do to change it to believe in who we are
• Why our brains are always going to assume the worst (unless we focus on changing those habits)

Every single person you meet has a background, history, but what is often hard to imagine is the extent of that persons history.

The first thing I would recommend for anybody to do is to sit down and spend some time reflecting. Figure out not only what's your problem, what is it? Are you struggling with consistency, motivation, laziness, procrastination? What is it? Recognize that whatever that is, it is a result, that is the end thing. Now we need to reflect inwards; what do I think, feel, and believe that is contributing to this result.

Your mental and emotional wellbeing is like a mental and emotional garden, and if you have been neglecting that garden for years and years, what is present in there? A bunch of weeds. You have all these weeds in your garden, and if you took a weed whacker to it, are you gonna get what you want? We have to recognize that instant gratification, if you took a weed whacker to issues, is that you feel good for a second, it looks good for a moment, but it is not going to be sustainable. Those weeds are going to grow back stronger and faster. We have to be willing to do the work, to have a clean garden, and then all you have to do is maintenance. 

These experiences are shaping your mind and what impact they are having in your brain, and showing how that is showing up in your every day life. I am going to give you a blueprint, to teach you how to be able to not only identify, but untangle and replace these things in our minds.

When we can untangle the story, the belief has no power.

72% of all parents expect teachers to teach self-esteem. 72% of all teachers, expect parents to teach self-esteem. We have this constant deflection of where we learn to love and appreciate ourselves being placed on other people. When no one is there to lead that way, where are our children learning self-worth and self-esteem? Media. 

Our biggest issue is our perception of what we should be. When we begin to start appreciating ourselves, then we can begin to love and appreciate the perfectly imperfectness. You are flawed and beautiful. You are going to fail, and we embrace that failure with open arms and an open mind, recognizing that that's an opportunity for you to grow.

Your brain is your best ally, and also your worst enemy if you don't know how to use it.

We have to learn to reason with our mind.

• Last week's episode with Paul Sinton-Hewitt
• True to Your Core Book
• Dr Wayne Dyer Book Bonnie recommended
• Bonnie Kelly's website
• RX Bars

Parkrun has become a global movement. Although it initially started in the UK with some friends meeting up on a Saturday for a run followed by coffee, it has grown to over 1100 locations in 14 countries around the world with 3.5 million people registered, yes, it really is that big!

With 200,000 participants joining in every weekend for free, it is no wonder it has taken on a life of its own, especially as many of the people involved through running the events and volunteering are people like you! Just good, genuine people!

Paul Sinton-Hewitt, the founder of Parkrun is here to talk about the growth they have experienced, completely organically, and why Paul thinks the people who participate are some of the best people in the world. With fostering community as the heart and center of Parkrun, it is easy to see why.

Parkrun has been responsible for over 100,000 people joining clubs, and they celebrate the milestones of reaching 50, 100, 250, and even 500 parkruns (thats over 10 years straight!

You are going to love this episode if you love the running community, and I hope if you haven't already participated, you will consider it in the future, yes, even if you are unable to run right now!

This podcast episode is for you if you love to make new friends, be a part of the running community, and participate in social movements. Parkrun is making the world a healthier, happier place, one location at a time.

Paul Sinton-Hewitt

Founder of Parkrun, growing it from a few friends meeting for a run and coffee to 200,000 runners every weekend.

What You Will Learn About

• Where the idea for parkrun came from and how it grew the way it did
• Why the race is a 5k
• Why parkrun will ALWAYS be free
• The setbacks to address when setting up new events in the US and other countries around the world
• What happened when one of the packruns tried to add a fee for park maintenance

It's a simple run, in a park, every single week, with your mates, where we socialize at the end of it. Those principles stand today.

Slowly but surely we are energizing the world, we are making the world a healthier and happier place.

I receive all these awards, but I receive them on behalf of all the people who make this happen, as without all those volunteers, we would be one event in a park, and I would still be the person doing all the volunteering.

We are a social movement that just happens to run. For anybody, regardless of whether they intend running in the future or not, this is a place to go where you meet fantastic people. The people you meet are some of the most beautiful people in the world.

Parkrun isn't a cure for everyone, but it is part of the process of how people can be the best they can be. There is nothing more rewarding than doing that with your friends, people who are there to support you and help you and celebrate your achievements.

We want more people running more often. We want more people more active more often. Anything we can do to help other people achieve that same goal, we will.

If things carry on the way they are, in 2023, we will have over 10000 weekly events and a million runners a week.

• Last week's episode with David Geier
• Parkrun website
• Set up your own parkrun event
• November Project
• GoodGym

Thanks to our sponsor Get Vi, check out GetVI.com/running4real to enter to win a Vi 

Dr David Geier is the kind of specialist we all need more of in our lives. David and I discuss running injuries, and why he is not going to try to stop you running at every opportunity like other specialists who do not understand our needs as runners. He is proud to say that most injuries will not be long term if you deal with them early enough...Ignoring pain is something we as runners do well.

We discuss the dangers of using Dr Google to diagnose your injuries, but when it is okay to use the internet to help you with your injuries.

You will love the conversation about the story of Joan Benoit-Samuelson, and how she won the Olympic Trials in the US just 17(!!) days after knee surgery, and how she was able to pull it off.

This episode has a focus also on kids in sports, something I have felt passionately about for a long time. Dr David shares how you can prevent your child going through overuse injuries by adding just one season of a different sport. Even if your kid loves to run, they still need a few months of not doing it each year, to save their bodies and prevent burnout.

David believes (as do I), that sports should be fun, and if you push kids too hard too early, it can have long term consequences.

We go into detail about the mystery of compartment syndrome, and finally, we discuss the most easily preventable injury that runners struggle with, and how to make sure you don't end up with a stress fracture.

This podcast episode is for you if you have kids who play sports, if you struggle with injuries, and you are wondering what you could possibly be doing wrong to keep ending up with injuries. This doctor loves to see the excitement in a runners face when they get back to running, and will do whatever he can to get you healthy.

Dr. David Geier

An orthopedic surgeon and sports medicine specialist. Dr. Geier takes pride in helping other runners, especially those who are unable to visit his clinic in South Carolina. A Ted X speaker, and featured TV guest, this is one sports medicine doctor runners will want to listen to.

What You Will Learn About

• Why running through pain is the worst thing you can do as a runner
• What to look for in a doctor, therapist, specialist to help with your injuries
• How to know which research articles to trust when so many people tell you different things
• Can we reverse chronic injuries and fix the damage we have done to our bodies over the years?
• Why pushing kids too hard at a young age is damaging their bodies for the long-term
• Why the dropout rate for kids in sport is 70% by age 13
• Symptoms to look for if you think you might have compartment syndrome, and what to do if you do think you have it

The best part of it (his job) for me is the clinic, the excitement you see on somebodies face when you tell them they can go back to run or go back and lift weights, they get back to what they love to do. There is nothing better than that excitement when they have been out of something.

The challenge on the internet is that you don't really know the quality of the information.

If you are hurting, and you can't run as much as you want, go see somebody.

That's one of the things that has changed fundamentally about sports at a youth level...as early as 7 or 8 years old, they are being pressed to pick one sport and play it year round. These kids don't have the muscle strength, their bodies aren't able to withstand the same stress on the same parts of the body all year-long. That is why the injuries are skyrocketing, and they are largely preventable.

70% of kids drop out of sports by age 13. Burnout from coaches and parents is the biggest reason for that.

If they (kids) really love running, by all means, let them do it. I still would say, let them do it for 9 months a year, and 2-3 months they can run a little bit, but let them do something else...the problem with running, especially for kids if you do it every day, all year-long is that all that stress is going on the feet, the ankles, the legs, and the knees. It's not getting spread throughout the body. 

There is such a mentality that kids have got to be seen by the scouts, you have got to be on the right teams with the right coaches. 

Even more than injuries, all that pressure on kids, leads to a situation where they hide pain from their parents and coaches because they don't want to let them down, and that pain starts to build up, and then they get overuse injuries. That pressure just makes it not fun and they burn our of sports. We just need to at least until they get to the high school ages, let them have fun.

Sports push people to play through pain and play through injuries. Doing that can lead to bigger problems down the road.

The rule of thumb about increasing your training by 10% per week prevents stress fractures.

Fortunately with runners, the vast majority of things we can take care of early.

• Last week's episode with Mario Fraioli
• Dr David's website
• Sports Medicine Simplified- Dr David's book

Magda Boulet has not only been successful in the ultra marathon world, recently finishing 2nd in the brutal 2017 Western States 100 mile, but she is a former Olympian in the marathon. Magda shares her story about her natural progression throughout the distances during her running career, and how she reached the Olympic trials in 2008 ready to have the best race of her life (which she did) to finish 2nd in the trials.

Magda is very real with us about the frustration and struggles she went through at the Olympics and why going into it injured removed a lot of the joy and appreciation for her (and what she would do differently now).

We talk about her transition to ultra races and how she became so successful from the start. She gives us some very interesting (but helpful) advice about why we should be hiking up hills in longer races, even if we feel like we can run up it, and how that helped her in Western States 100 mile 2015 where she won the race, and 2017 where she finished 2nd.

This podcast episode is for you if you love to learn how to listen to your body, and you enjoy getting inspiration from other runners about how to be your best. Magda is so experienced, and is happy to share her advice with us.

Magda Boulet

A 2008 Olympian in the marathon, and now one of the most successful ultra marathoners, who at 43 years old is continuing to impress. Winning her debut 100 mile race at Western States and second in the brutal 2017 Western States.

What You Will Learn About

• How Magda first got into running and what made her fall in love with it
• The heartbreak of finishing 4th in the Olympic Trials in 2004, followed by taking time off to have her son before she bounced back to finish 2nd in the 2008 Olympic Trials
• The advice Jack Daniel's (her coach) gave her before she raced the Olympic Trials
• Why her Olympic experience was not as good as it should have been or she hoped it would be
• Why she ran a 1 mile race and 50mile race one after the other
• How to be successful in ultramarathons 

I was running with brand new inspiration after my son was born, a completely different level of motivation.

It was an incredible race for me, a day we all dream about having as competitors, everything just lined up.

Go and run the race you know you are in shape for.

I feel to this day that there was so much pressure I put on myself to perform a certain way, when you put so much time in, you want to represent your country to your best ability. Having that injury (happened a week before the race) was extremely frustrating. You feel that sense of guilt, that there are only three women representing the country, and you have a bum knee. 

I know now that there are things you can control and things you can't control. 

It is unfortunate that we get hurt, and sometimes the worst time to get hurt is when you are trying to represent your country, or trying to run the most important race of your life.

Dropping out of a race is extremely difficult to deal with. It is never easy to repair that damage that has happened.

I was ready for a new challenge, ready for a different direction and motivation. Most athletes that competed around the same time as me, once they completed that, they leave the sport, once they know this is the last olympic trials. I wasn't ready to walk away from competing, I was just ready to walk away from road marathons.

One of my favorite workouts for marathons, was always the long run. I knew deep inside that there was something about this long stuff I was going to enjoy.

In ultras there is so much more room for mistakes. The shorter the race, the more risks you can take. In a 100mile race, once you burn it, it is difficult to repair it.

(on ultra races) In early miles, it is really important to listen to your body...some of the low moments you have where your body is not floating on cloud 9, you aren't feeling great, you have to respect the moments you don't feel 100%. You have to listen to the signs and cues your body is giving you. It is so worth backing off when your body is telling you. If you have more in the tank, it will be there at the end. If you push through some of the signs early in the race, it is going to be very difficult to have a strong finish.

That is part of western states, the beauty of the challenge, that it is always unpredictable and there are elements that can change...it's not disrespecting it, but more believing that you can do it, that you can beat that. I have learned over the years to make sure that I listen to my body...I think I have an easier time listening to my body, and that comes with having the confidence to back off, having the confidence to let go of your pack, or telling your pacer to push me enough, but give me feedback.

Part of what attracts us to this sport is that it is so challenging, and that you have to fight all these different elements.

I look forward to racing, it is a celebration of weeks and months of workload and no matter what happens, I always try to have a good time.

• Last weeks episode with Tawnee Gibson 
• Magda's interview with iRun Far after Western States 2017
• Ian Sharman coaching
• Gu Stroopwafel 
• Gu Summit Tea
• Magda's Twitter
• Magda's Instagram

Thanks for Listening! I hope you enjoyed today's episode.

Yep, I am pregnant! Tawnee is Pregnant!

This is our podcast episode discussing overcoming hypothalamic amenorrhea to getting our periods back, and ultimately getting pregnant! Tawnee and I may have had different approaches with how we wanted to get our menstrual cycles back, but this is a great episode for anyone who has lost periods to understand why it is so worth making lifestyle changes to get it back (yes, even if you do not want to start a family!).

Read my blog post about my pregnancy for more information, but this special episode is just a chat between two friends who have both overcome amenorrhea, and want to help others do the same.

Tawnee Gibson

Host of the wildly popular Endurance Planet Podcast and former world caliber triathlete, Tawnee Gibson loves looking at the scientific research behind health and wellness. She now works with clients through her membership platform, Life Post Collective.

• My pregnancy announcement blog post
• Tawnee's Blog
• Tawnee's coaching website
• Endurance Planet Podcast
• Life Post Collective
• Tawnee's Instagram
• Tawnee's Twitter
• No Period. Now What? Book

Thanks for Listening! I hope you enjoyed today's episode.