The Trial

Launching Friday 19th April, Vogue Williams hosts The Apple and The Tree, a brand new podcast where a parent and their adult child get to ask each other about the parts of their shared history they’ve always wanted to know more about, but never given themselves the time to do so. These are deep, intimate and revealing conversations that move through love, grief, shame, sexuality, religion, addiction, identity and so much more.

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Because these shows were recorded in our guest’s own homes, it’s like you’ve been invited in to sit alongside them and hear exactly how their lives have unfurled. At the end of each episode, Vogue and the guests unpack what’s been shared to discover if the apple really does fall far from the tree.

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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you a key witness in the defence case of Constance Marten - an expert who investigates the unexpected death of babies. Prof Peter Fleming told the court he thought Constance Marten’s account was ‘extraordinarily consistent’ and cast doubt on how the prosecution say Baby Victoria died.

Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.

Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.

They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.

Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast

Contact us at [email protected]

Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')

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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the final day of Constance Marten’s evidence from the witness box as she told jurors she had wanted to get an autopsy for her baby in the hope she would find the death wasn’t her fault. The episode also features her claim that she had neglected herself to the point of exhaustion in trying to look after Baby Victoria - and it was this exhaustion that ultimately led her to fall asleep with the child in her arms, she said.

Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.

Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.

They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.

Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast

Contact us at [email protected]

Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')

This is a Daily Mail Production. Seriously Popular.

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In this episode, Caroline and Jack will bring you the latest from the evidence of Constance Marten, as she defended her decision to take her newborn baby into a tent in the middle of winter - saying that 'Jesus survived in a barn'. The episode will also feature claims that a man Constance Marten said inspired her plan to flee abroad has also used his website to encourage children to invent bomb plots against social workers.

Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.

Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.

They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.

Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast

Contact us at [email protected]

Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')

This is a Daily Mail Production. Seriously Popular.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the latest from the prosecution's cross-examination of Constance Marten, in which she claims her family placed a travel ban on her by telling the court she was having children to sell illegally and that she was addicted to drugs. The episode also features her claims that she was planning to try to find a people-smuggling nanny on Gumtree to bring her newborn baby Victoria abroad.

Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.

Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.

They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.

Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast

Contact us at [email protected]

Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')

This is a Daily Mail Production. Seriously Popular.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you more from the evidence of Constance Marten as she reveals she and Mark Gordon considered taking their own lives after the death of their baby Victoria in February 2023. The episode also features the start of the cross-examination as the prosecution question Constance Marten’s decision making in the baby’s final days.

Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.

Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.

They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.

Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast

Contact us at [email protected]

Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')

This is a Daily Mail Production. Seriously Popular.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you all the latest from the first day of the evidence of Constance Marten in the witness box at the Old Bailey, where she told jurors that she was fleeing from her family as well as social services when she went on the run with Mark Gordon and their newborn baby Victoria - but denied ever carrying her in a bag-for-life. The episode will also feature a recap of Mark Gordon's defence case.

Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.

Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.

They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.

Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast

Contact us at [email protected]

Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')

This is a Daily Mail Production. Seriously Popular.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the latest evidence from the Old Bailey, where the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon heard from two pathologists about the possible ways in which Baby Victoria died while on the South Downs when the couple were on the run last year. The episode will also feature the poignant moment jurors were allowed to examine the baby gro that the infant wore for much of her short life.

Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.

Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.

They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.

Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast

Contact us at [email protected]

Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')

This is a Daily Mail Production. Seriously Popular.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the latest from the Old Bailey, where jurors were told about Constance Marten and Mark Gordon’s history with social services and why a family court decided to take their previous four children into care. The episode will also feature the evidence of an expert in paediatric health - who said a newborn baby could die within hours in the wintery conditions on the South Downs when the couple were camping with their baby in a tent last year.

Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.

Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.

They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.

Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast

Contact us at [email protected]

Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')

This is a Daily Mail Production. Seriously Popular.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode Caroline and Jack have the interview Mark Gordon gave to the detectives investigating the case. He tells them the couple discussed giving the baby up, but the following morning she had died, and even though he tried to give her CPR, it didn’t work. 

He told them when Victoria died it was every parents worst dread. 

We’ll also bring you the evidence that Constance Marten had over £19,000 in her bank account when the couple were on the run, but she made no cash withdrawals after January 5th, when they were staying in hotels, sleeping in taxis and living in a tent on the South Downs.

Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.

Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.

They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.

Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast

Contact us at [email protected]

Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')

This is a Daily Mail Production. Seriously Popular.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices