School integration in America is widely viewed as a civil rights milestone— but decades later, U.S. schools are as segregated as they were in the 1970s. So, in this episode of Top of Mind, we look at the complicated legacy of school integration in America: who it helped, who it hurt, and what struggling schools need to thrive.

Dr. Noliwe Rooks shares her family’s four-generation story with integration, highlighting both its benefits and its lasting harms. We also visit schools in Oakland and Florida that show how communities can support student success—even in segregated settings. What does real educational equity look like? And what lessons have we missed about integration’s impact?

Guests:

Noliwe Rooks, L. Herbert Balou Professor of Africana Studies at Brown University and author of Integrated: How American Schools Failed Black Children (https://www.noliwerooks.org/)

Roma Groves-Waters, principal of MLK Jr. Elementary in Oakland, California

(https://mlk.ousd.org/)

Kamryn Young, Evans High alum and development director for Children’s Home Society of Florida (https://chsfl.org/)

Andry Sweet, CEO of Children’s Home Society of Florida (https://chsfl.org/leadership-blog/andry-sweet-president-ceo/)

Audio excerpted with permission of Penguin Random House Audio from INTEGRATED by Noliwe Rooks, read by the author. © Noliwe Rooks ℗ 2025 Penguin Random House, LLC. All rights reserved.

Get the audio book here: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/721962/integrated-by-noliwe-rooks/audio/

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction

00:42 The Untold Story of School Integration

03:02 Integration & Black Educators

04:08 Segregation in Schools Now

08:49 Rooks' Journey & Family History

18:15 Challenges of Integration for Black Students

22:09 The War on Poverty

26:11 Life as an Integrator

30:09 Jelani's Middle School Experience

33:59 Navigating Racial Dynamics in Education

35:43 Community Schools as a Solution

45:43 Evans High School Transformation

52:22 Conclusion