School integration in America is widely viewed as a civil rights milestone— but decades later, U.S. schools are as segregated as they were in the 1970s. So, in this episode of Top of Mind, we look at the complicated legacy of school integration in America: who it helped, who it hurt, and what struggling schools need to thrive.

Dr. Noliwe Rooks shares her family’s four-generation story with integration, highlighting both its benefits and its lasting harms. We also visit schools in Oakland and Florida that show how communities can support student success—even in segregated settings. What does real educational equity look like? And what lessons have we missed about integration’s impact?

Guests:

Noliwe Rooks, L. Herbert Balou Professor of Africana Studies at Brown University and author of Integrated: How American Schools Failed Black Children (https://www.noliwerooks.org/)

Roma Groves-Waters, principal of MLK Jr. Elementary in Oakland, California

(https://mlk.ousd.org/)

Kamryn Young, Evans High alum and development director for Children’s Home Society of Florida (https://chsfl.org/)

Andry Sweet, CEO of Children’s Home Society of Florida (https://chsfl.org/leadership-blog/andry-sweet-president-ceo/)

Audio excerpted with permission of Penguin Random House Audio from INTEGRATED by Noliwe Rooks, read by the author. © Noliwe Rooks ℗ 2025 Penguin Random House, LLC. All rights reserved.

Get the audio book here: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/721962/integrated-by-noliwe-rooks/audio/

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction

00:42 The Untold Story of School Integration

03:02 Integration & Black Educators

04:08 Segregation in Schools Now

08:49 Rooks' Journey & Family History

18:15 Challenges of Integration for Black Students

22:09 The War on Poverty

26:11 Life as an Integrator

30:09 Jelani's Middle School Experience

33:59 Navigating Racial Dynamics in Education

35:43 Community Schools as a Solution

45:43 Evans High School Transformation

52:22 Conclusion

In this special bonus episode of Top of Mind, Julie Rose revisits the challenge of credit card debt - a topic that hits home for many of us – by sitting down with Thomas Nitzsche, a financial educator at Money Management International (MMI) and Susan, who shares her personal journey of paying off $80,000 in debt over four and a half years with help from MMI.

While some feel skeptical of credit counseling agencies, this conversation digs into how these credit counseling agencies work, how to find a reputable one, and the real benefits they offer.

If you’re looking for practical insights on how structured debt management can offer both financial relief and peace of mind, this conversation is for you.

Original episode on credit card debt - https://www.byuradio.org/making-sense-of-americas-credit-card-debt

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction

00:43 Interview with Thomas Nichi from MMI

01:14 Susan's Debt Story

04:19 How Credit Counseling Agencies Work

11:46 Debt Management vs. Debt Settlement

18:19 Finding Reputable Credit Counseling Agencies

19:42 Final Thoughts and Advice

20:58 Conclusion and Outro

Credit card debt is at an all-time high in America. Half of all Americans with a credit card have carried a balance in the past year, and one in three have more credit card debt than emergency savings. And with interest rates soaring, that debt is becoming even more expensive.

It’s easy to see credit card debt as a personal failing, caused by overspending. While that’s often true, nearly a third of U.S. credit card holders say they use their cards to cover essentials like rent, food, or medical bills. That complicates the narrative. Credit card debt might be a burden—but access to credit can also be a lifeline.

On this episode of Top of Mind:

- How should we think about credit card debt in America?

- How much personal responsibility do we bear?

- What are the risks of making credit card debt “cheaper”?

- How can consumers navigate a system designed to promote debt?

Guests:

Jamie Feldman, journalist and co-host of the Debt Heads podcast (https://debtheadspodcast.com/)

Elena Botella, author of Delinquent: Inside America’s Debt Machine (https://elenabotella.com/books)

Tris, credit card user

Nicholas Anthony, policy analyst at the Cato Institute’s Center for Monetary and Financial Alternatives (https://www.cato.org/people/nicholas-anthony)

Matt Schulz, Chief Consumer Finance Analyst at LendingTree and author of Ask Questions, Save Money, Make More (https://www.mattschulz.com/book/)

Michael Reynolds, certified financial planner and owner of Elevation Financial (https://www.elevationfinancial.com/about)

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction

00:48 Jamie's Debt Journey

03:35 The Reality of Credit Card Debt in America

09:23 Elena Botella's Insider Perspective

15:16 The Evolution of Consumer Credit

25:13 Tris' Story: Overcoming Financial Hurdles

26:25 Using Credit Cards Responsibly

28:18 Rebuilding Credit Scores

29:52 Debate and Impact: Interest Rate Caps

37:03 Tips for Managing Credit Card Debt

46:45 The Debt Snowball Method

48:49 Credit Card Rewards and Spending Habits

52:18 Conclusion

In 2017, the US and a coalition of more than 80 countries ran ISIS out of its strongholds, killed the group's top leaders, and declared victory.

But that wasn't the end.

Instead, ISIS reinvented itself as an even greater threat to the United States homeland—and did so more successfully than any other foreign terror group. National security experts now say a 9/11-style attack is no longer the main worry. It's "domestic terrorism" by "lone-wolf" attackers radicalized online to murder their fellow Americans.

On this episode, we consider how ISIS has revised the radicalization playbook to become "the easiest club in the world to join," as one expert describes. We'll hear how groups embracing other extremist ideologies – including white supremacy, male supremacy and anti-government sentiment - are using that same playbook. And we'll get concrete advice on how to prevent radicalization in young people.

Guests:

Christianne Boudreau, Co-founder of “Mothers for Life” and “Hope Regained” (https://www.hoperegained.com/)

Joby Warrick, national security reporter for the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/joby-warrick/), author of Black Flags: The Rise of ISIS (https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/233775/black-flags-by-joby-warrick/)

Cynthia Miller-Idriss, professor at American University, founding director of the Polarization and Extremism Research and Innovation Lab (PERIL https://perilresearch.com/)

Americans reported reading 12 books on average in 2022. That’s the lowest number since Gallup started polling on this in the 90s. Survey data from 2023 show nearly half of US adults didn't read—or listen to—even one book that year. It's no wonder; book reading has to compete with endless news feeds, social media sites, streaming services, and even podcasts for free time. Teachers are starting to worry about this. College professors report their incoming freshman seem unable to stick with long, complicated texts. At the high school level, teachers are taking novels off their curriculum entirely, sticking to excerpts and movie-versions of the classics.

Book reading in the digital age is more convenient than ever. You can listen to an audiobook in places you would never read a physical book—when you're driving, for example, or doing the dishes. And just one e-reader can store thousands of books, which makes reading more transportable and accessible. But even the ease of modern tech hasn't reversed the overall decline. And it begs new questions: do our brains interact with a screen the same way they interact with a paper page? And does listening to a book really count as reading it? Americans are consuming fewer books than ever. Does that matter in 2025?

Guests:

Della Cassia, freelance writer (https://www.dellacassia.com/)

Victoria Waller, educational therapist and author of Yes! Your Child Can: Creating Success for Children with Learning Differences (https://www.drvictoriawaller.com/the-book)

Jonathan Malesic, writer and professor at Southern Methodist University (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/25/opinion/college-university-students-reading.html?unlocked_article_code=1.U04.5KzJ.G2qOw1rujKCq&smid=url-share)

Anna White, avid audiobook reader

Naomi Baron, professor emerita of linguistics at American University and author of How We Read Now: Strategic Choices for Print, Screen, and Audio (https://www.amazon.com/How-We-Read-Now-Strategic/dp/019008409X) and Who Wrote This? How AI and the Lure of Efficie

The current state of education in America is a troubling picture. Reading proficiency scores have reached historic lows. Chronic absenteeism is on the rise—more than a quarter of K-12 students miss at least 10% of the school year. And the achievement gap in test scores between the highest and lowest performing students has widened. On this podcast episode, we take a closer look at education reform in America. Would more students show up to school if they were learning material that felt applicable to their goals in life - instead of being funneled through a cookie-cutter system designed for the industrial era? How would a focus on increasing background knowledge, known as knowledge-building curriculum, help students develop their understanding of core subjects better than our current model of skills-based instruction? And how might school choice policies—like open enrollment, charter schools, and magnet schools—address rising levels of school segregation? Could racial and socioeconomic integration be the key to closing America’s persistent achievement gaps on standardized test scores?

Guests:

Cory Steiner, Superintendent of Schools for Northern Cass School District: https://www.northerncassschool.org/page/personalized-learning

Jenee Henry Wood, Chief Learning Officer at Transcend and co-author of Extraordinary Learning for All: How Communities Design Schools Where Everyone Thrives: https://transcendeducation.org/resources/extraordinary-learning-for-all/

Russ Williams, Executive Director of Center City Public Schools in Washington, D.C.: https://centercitypcs.org/about/meet-our-team/#biokellydickens

Kate Merrill, Managing Director of Curriculum and Instruction, Center City Public Schools in Washington, D.C.

Halley Potter, Senior Fellow and Director of PK-12 Education Policy at The Century Foundation: https://tcf.org/experts/halley-potter/

Milly Arbaje-Thomas, President & CEO of METCO (The Metropolitan Council for Educational Opportunity) in Boston: https://metcoinc.org/about/

More Top of Mind epi

More Americans use cannabis every day, or almost every day, than use alcohol on a daily basis. That's in large part because marijuana is a lot more accessible than it used to be. More than half of us live in a state where marijuana is recreationally legal.  Nearly 8 in 10 live in a county with a marijuana dispensary.

But marijuana is still illegal in the eyes of the federal government, which means legalization is being managed almost entirely by a patchwork of state policies. Doctors and scientists are starting to worry about what that means for public health. Is marijuana legalization working out like we thought it would? And where do we go from here?

Guests:

Amber Post, realtor from Owasso, Oklahoma

Yasmin Hurd, Director of the Addiction Institute at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai New York (https://www.nationalacademies.org/news/2024/09/to-protect-public-health-federal-government-should-provide-guidance-to-states-that-have-legalized-marijuana-close-hemp-regulatory-loopholes-create-public-health-campaign)

Jonathan Caulkins, Professor of Operations Research and Public Policy at Carnegie Mellon University’s Heinz College (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/add.16519)

00:00 Introduction and Personal Story

01:31 Amber Post's Marijuana Journey

02:43 Health Issues and Discovery

05:20 Legalization and Public Perception

11:13 Medical and Scientific Insights

15:31 Cannabinoids and Their Effects

23:49 Policy and Future Outlook

25:15 The Impact of Potent Cannabis Products on Youth

26:00 The Role of Policy and Regulation in Cannabis Safety

26:51 The Need for FDA Regulation in Cannabis Products

28:21 Concerns About Vulnerable Populations

30:02 The Evolution of Cannabis Legalization in the U.S.

32:59 The Rise of Daily Cannabis Use

36:06 Challenges in Regulating Cannabis Products

43:57 The Future of Cannabis Legalization and Regulation

52:35 Personal Reflections on Medical Marijuana

53:26 Closing Remarks and Additional Resources

They started off as ideological enemies.

Mark Rosenberg pioneered the public health approach to preventing gun violence and opened a branch of the CDC to fund that research. Jay Dickey, the "NRA's point man in Congress", pushed a ban on CDC funding for gun violence research that lasted 20 years – and got Rosenberg fired. On this episode of Top of Mind, we tell the unlikely story of their friendship and what it can teach us about reducing gun violence in America.

Americans are split right down the middle on whether it's more important to control gun ownership or protect the right to own guns. But we agree that too many people die from firearms. They are the leading cause of death for children under the age of 19 in the United States today. Mass shootings are so common they barely capture headlines beyond a day. In 2024, about 40,000 Americans died from gun violence. More than half were suicides.

If Mark Rosenberg and Jay Dickie could come to agree on the need to reduce gun violence, while preserving the rights of law-abiding gun owners, can we do the same?

Podcast Guests:

Mark Rosenberg, MD, public health researcher, former director of the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control (NCPIC at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506)

Jay Dickey, former Republican Congressman from Arkansas, gun rights advocate and sponsor of the “Dickey Amendment” (Dickey died in 2017 https://www.nwaonline.com/obituaries/2017/apr/23/jay-dickey-2017-04-23/. We hear archival tape in this episode)

Betty Dickey, former Arkansas State Supreme Court Justice, Congressman Jay Dickey’s ex-wife

Rachel Dickey Haithcoat, Congressman Jay Dickey’s daughter

Garen Wintemute, MD, emergency medicine physician, director of the Violence Prevention Research Program, University of California at Davis

Bindi Naik-Mathuria, MD, pediatric trauma surgeon, gun violence researcher

It’s been about two years since the public got a taste of ChatGPT for the first time. Now, artificial intelligence has seeped into nearly every aspect of our lives. You can use AI to check your grammar or to generate content for social media. Students use it to write essays. AI can also generate artwork, music or audio in seconds. We’re relying more and more on generative AI tools like MidJourney, DALL-E, Claude, Perplexity, and Copilot—and the more we use it, the better it gets. But can AI really be creative? What does it even mean to be creative in the age of AI?

Guests:

Kate Brunotts, freelance music producer (https://www.breakingsound.com/kate-brunotts)

Jon Cockley, co-founder of the illustration agency, Handsome Frank (https://www.handsomefrank.com/)

Lindsay Brainard, professor of philosophy at the University of Alabama, Birmingham (https://www.lindsaybrainard.com/home)

Claire Silver, AI collaborative artist (https://www.clairesilver.com/selected-work)

Links:

Letter from the Artist Rights Alliance: https://artistrightsnow.medium.com/200-artists-urge-tech-platforms-stop-devaluing-music-559fb109bbac

A 2024 Knight Foundation report found one in four college students think schools need to protect students by banning speech they may find offensive or biased, the largest share of students to answer that way since the survey first asked the question in 2016. 2024 also set a record for the number of attempts to disrupt or disinvite speaker, cancel performances, take down art exhibits and prevent the screening of films on US college campuses, according to the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). What do these competing interests--to encourage student wellbeing and protect free speech on campus--mean for students and administrators trying to strike a balance?

Guests:

Jillian Lederman, Joseph Rago Memorial Fellow at The Wall Street Journal, 2024 graduate of Brown University ( https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/opinion/antisemitism-jews-campus.html)

Kaleb Bakari Autman, undergraduate student at the University of Wisconsin-Madison

Emma Camp, assistant editor at Reason Magazine, 2022 graduate of the University of Virginia (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/07/opinion/campus-speech-cancel-culture.html)

Steve Bahls, president emeritus of Augustana College (retired in 2022), director of Presidential Mission and Vocation for the Council of Independent Colleges

More 1st Amendment episodes from Top of Mind:

Religious freedom: https://www.byuradio.org/top-of-mind-christian-or-not-unpacking-americas-religious-identity

Free Speech: https://www.byuradio.org/d47c4b86-02d4-4a4d-997b-d1510ba9048b/top-of-mind-with-julie-rose-weighing-the-pros-and-cons-of-free-expression

Free Press: https://www.byuradio.org/68e6b06a-73bb-4a0f-ace8-5f2b55bd066f/top-of-mind-with-julie-rose-can-the-news-be-trusted-americans-arent-too-sure

Links:

2024 Knight Foundation Report on Free Expression: https://knightfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Knight-Fdn_Free-Expression_2024_072424_FINAL-1.pdf

FIRE Databases:  https://www.thefire.org/research-learn?_page=1&keywords=&_limit=6&resource_type=1562