Trinities

In this lecture, given at the amazing Converge event in Ohio in August of 2025, I first explain the three varieties of early Christian theologies, which I have also discussed here, here, and in my recent debate with James White.

I then explain the fully developed catholic views which replaced them over the years 381-681, as the "ecumenical" councils innovated in Christology and theology. Noting the enormous gap between this sort of catholic orthodoxy and what we read in the New Testament, a number of evangelical scholars in the last 40 years or so have developed what I called "Fauxthodox" language, which seems to be intended to be saying what orthodoxy was always asserting, but in simpler language which they argue reflects what is actually taught in the Bible. The main ones I discuss are Larry Hurtado, Richard Bauckham, and N.T. Wright.

The problems are: this language seems carefully calibrated to be ambiguous, it is not obviously biblical, and there is no reason to think that this language is equivalent to the official "catholic" or "orthodox" views, which I summarize like this:

Christ is a fully divine Person in God the Trinity who is eternally caused to exist by (but not created by) the Father (a different divine Person in God), sharing his divinity. When Incarnate Christ is one Person with two natures, a divine nature and a human nature which are unchanged by their union. He got his human nature from his mother; before that there was no more to him than his divine nature—strictly, he is the divine nature. It is his human nature which suffered and died on the cross; his divine nature is incapable of either suffering or dying. Christ, in his divine nature, is incapable of doing any action which is not also the action of the Father and of the Spirit. Christ’s human nature (a human-type of soul plus a human-type of body) is not a human person because, somehow, of its union with the divine nature, i.e. with the Second Person of the Trinity. Thus Christ is now “man” but is not a man (human person). Each nature has its own will and power of choosing, but the human will always submits to the divine one.?

If you want to see all my slides, here is the fully produced video from the UCA's YouTube channel:

Links for this episode:

Catholic Theologian Hans Küng on New Testament theology

podcast 384 – Mainstream Christian Theologies in the Late 100s – Early 200s and Early Trinitarian “Fool’s Gold”

podcast 381 – Mainstream Christian Theologies in the year 240: What Trinitarian Apologists Don’t Know

John 1 Is Not Trinitarian | Dale Tuggy vs James White LIVE Debate! - (livestream: the fully edited video will be out soon on the UCA's YouTube channel).

Hurtado on the early worship of Jesus

Larry Hurtado on early Christians’ worship of Jesus

podcast 100 – Dr. Larry Hurtado on God in New Testament Theology

podcast 228 – Buzzard and Hurtado on God and Jesus – Part 1

podcast 229 – Buzzard and Hurtado on God and Jesus – Part 2

podcast 13 – On Bauckham’s Bargain

podcast 214 – Has Bauckham clarified his “divine identity” theory? – Part 2

podcast 213 – Has Bauckham clarified his “divine identity” theory? – Part 1

podcast 124 – a challenge to “Jesus is God” apologists

This week's thinking music is "Soul of Tacoma" by LOPKERJO.

Both of the arguments below are valid. But which one is sound? (By the definition of validity it's impossible that both are sound.)

Argument #1:

Argument #2:

In this talk I argue that Scripture requires that we endorse the first argument as sound.

I then interact with a bunch of standard, what I call "canned," answers that apologists dish out on these topics.

Here is the video version from 21stcr.org.

Links for this episode:

In this talk I answer three questions:

You are invited to reflect on your own calling (if you know it) and on what temptations are barriers to your walking that path God has put before you.

If you prefer the video here is the version produced by Sharon Gill at 21st Century Reformation:

Links for this episode:

podcast 277 – Was Christ tempted in every way?

Jesus’s temptations and ours

a conversation about the differences between God and Jesus

podcast 339 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 1

podcast 340 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 2

This week's thinking music is "Take it Out" by Ketsa.

In this episode I open by briefly explaining the gap this year in my podcasting. Then you'll hear my presentation from the first ever New Zealand UCA Conference.

Longstanding catholic traditions teach that Jesus is both fully divine, having the sort of divinity enjoyed by the Father Almighty, and fully human, being "like us in all things but sin." The problem with this is that the godman idea they're selling implies numerous contradictions. Since no contradiction (statement of form P and not-P) can be true, even one implied contradiction shows a godman to be impossible. In this lecture I spell out fourteen contradictions between divinity (having all the essential divine attributes) and what the New Testament teaches about the Lord Jesus Christ.

Listen all the way to the end, and I'll tell you what has happened with this lecture since I presented it in New Zealand: I will share some exciting news!

If you want to see my slides, here is the UCA's video version:

Links for this episode:

A letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Me (Revised)

Adam Pelser, "Temptation, Virtue, and the Character of Christ"

podcast 277 – Was Christ tempted in every way?

Jesus’s temptations and ours

podcast 277 – Was Christ tempted in every way?

podcast 146 – Jesus as an Exemplar of Faith in the New Testament

Tuggy, "Jesus as an exemplar of faith in the New Testament" 

Kapusta, Scripturae Contra Trinitatem – The Epistle to the Hebrews: An Anthology of Quotations, Alternative Expositions, and Critical Commentaries on Common Trinitarian Proof-Texts

Gaston, "Why does Hebrews 1:10-12 cite Psalm 102:25-27?" 

a reading of Philippians 2:5-11

podcast 259 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 2

podcast 258 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 1

podcast 235 – The Case Against Preexistence

Restitutio podcast 612 Colossians 1.16: Old Creation or New Creation? (Sean Finnegan)

Trinity to One God:  Dr. Dale Tuggy’s Journey

"Trinty," Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

"Samuel Clarke," Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

This week's thinking music is "Crunch" by Beat Mekanik.

When you're from a trinitarian Christian tradition, whether or not a doctrine of the Trinity is really in the Bible is more than an intellectual question. For one thing, there is the fear: am I angering God by asking these questions? And another huge factor is the peer pressure: it's part of catholic traditions to harshly exclude, with little to no discussion, people who will not pay lip service to "the doctrine of the Trinity."

On the other hand, there are Christians who've always had the blessing of being in a biblical unitarian group like the Christadelphians or the Church of God General Conference.

And then there are those who are blessed to be in a unitarian Christian group, but it is a high-control one, and they have to carefully work their way free from it.

In this new book, you'll read the testimonies of eight unitarian Christians, each with a unique story. If you're on any of these journeys, you'll find things to relate to here. This episode is my interview with contributor and instigator Seneca Harbin, my wife Candise Tuggy, who contributed a chapter, and Anna Brown, who helped in the publication of this book for Living Hope International Ministries.

The subject is heavy, but as you'll hear Seneca and his co-authors approach it with faith, hope, love, and a good sense of humor.

Links for this episode:

The Cost of Truth: Stories of Biblical Unitarian Christians

Unitarian Christian Alliance

UCA 2025 UK International Conference

Converge

Restitutio Podcast 569 The Cost of Truth (Seneca Harbin)

Church of God General Conference

Seth Ross @ Church of God General Conference

Christian Centered Counseling

UCA Podcast 33 My Trinitarian Best Friend - Amanda Dunn (Part 1)

UCA Podcast 34 My Homeschooling Nail-biter - Amanda Dunn (Part 2)

podcast 357 – Seminary student takes Trinity class, becomes unitarian – Part 2

podcast 356 – Seminary student takes Trinity class, becomes unitarian – Part 1

podcast 333 – The Arguments of “God’s Death”

Susanne Lakin - Biblical Anthropomorphism - Evidence of a Unipersonal God

Anna Brown - No Mere Man: Biblical Anthropology as Response to Psilanthropism - UCA Conference 2022

John Schoenheit @ Spirit & Truth

podcast 232 – Trinity Club Orientation

Bill Schlegel's blog Land and Bible

Bill Schlegel's podcast: The One God Report

Compass Christian Church in Louisville, KY

Pastor Will Barlow's blog Study Driven Faith blog

Restitutio 313 Questioning Way International Doctrines (William Barlow)

Living Hope Community Church in Latham, NY

Dale Tuggy - 10 Ways to Kill Unitarian Christianity

This week's thinking music is "Peaceful" by Mr. Smith.

In this second part (part 1 here) I interact with the rest of this discussion between Dr. Sean McDowell and Dr. Fred Sanders.

I do register some significant agreements with them, but on the whole, my criticism from last time stands: their apologetic defense of "the doctrine of the Trinity" is not anywhere near sufficient to rebut or refute the arguments presented by today's unitarian Christians.

I also explain some historical problems with various things they're saying. Detailed knowledge of early Christian theologies and Christologies disrupts a number of common trinitarian narratives and assumptions.

Questions addressed include:

At the end I offer to help.

Links for this episode:

Tuggy, "When and How in the History of Theology Did the Triune God Replace the Father as the Only True God?"

podcast 115 – the aborted council at Serdica in 343

podcast 114 – the recycled creed (342-359)

podcast 113 – the council at Antioch in 341

podcast 31 – Dr. William Hasker on the “Arian” Controversy

podcast 30 – The Council of Nicea

podcast 29 – Arius

Prestige, God in Patristic thought

podcast 270 – Origen’s “one God”

Tuggy, What is the Trinity?

10 steps towards getting less confused about the Trinity 

Clarke, The Scripture-Doctrine of the Trinity

Biddle, The Apostolical and True Opinion Concerning the Holy Trinity

podcast 348 – Novatian’s On the Trinity – Part 2 – Two Thieves and Three Arguments

Hanson, The Search for the Christian Doctrine of God

Unitarian Christian Alliance

Church of God General Conference

Spirit and Truth

podcast 357 – Seminary student takes Trinity class, becomes unitarian – Part 2

podcast 356 – Seminary student takes Trinity class, becomes unitarian – Part 1

Dustin Smith’s The Biblical Unitarian Podcast

Sean Finnegan’s Restitutio Podcast

McIntosh, ed. – Craig vs. Hasker vs. Branson vs. Tuggy – One God, Three Persons, Four Views: A Biblical, Theological, and Philosophical Dialogue on the Doctrine of the Trinity

This week's thinking music is "Discipline" by Mr. Smith.

In this episode I, a Biola University alum (B.A., Philosophy) interact with this video by two current Biola University professors, Dr. Fred Sanders, and Dr. Sean McDowell.

Their goals are to show that the doctrine of the Trinity is coherent (not self-contradictory) and that it fits well with Scripture.

Issues they discuss include:

In my commentary I point out that Dr. McDowell and Dr. Sanders are for the most part avoiding harder objections and issues pressed by unitarian Christians like me. When harder objections are brought up, their answers are lacking. In particular, the biblical problems are much, much harder then they are assuming. How does the Bible teach that the one God is the Trinity when it seems to clearly teach that the one God is the Father, the one formerly called "Yahweh"? How does the Bible teach the full deity of Jesus when it straightforwardly presents him as having limitations which God must lack?

They also ignore that different, incompatible doctrines, such as one-self and three-self Trinity theories all offer the same traditional language--thus, repeating that language does not suffice to clearly communicate a trinitarian theology. Their talk of "the doctrine of the Trinity" mistakenly presupposes that theologians loyal to trinitarian traditions are teaching the same things. They are not.

In the next episode I interact with the remainder of their presentation.

Links for this episode:

podcast 252 – Fred Sanders on Seeing the Trinity in Scripture, and his Secret

podcast 193 – Review of Sanders’s The Deep Things of God – Part 2

podcast 192 – Review of Sanders’s The Deep Things of God – Part 1

podcast 194 – God: One Person or Three? Sanders vs. Buzzard debate

Dustin Smith's The Biblical Unitarian Podcast

Sean Finnegan's Restitutio Podcast

Sanders, The Deep Things of God: How the Trinity Changes Everything (2nd ed.)

Tuggy, "Trinity," Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

Baber, "Trinity," Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

Dustin Smith - The Plural of Majesty

podcast 11 – Tertullian the unitarian – Trinities

Cartwright, "On the Logical Problem of the Trinity"

Date and Tuggy, Is Jesus Human and Not Divine?

Tuggy, "When and How in the History of Theology Did the Triune God Replace the Father as the Only True God?"

podcast 330 – Dr. Joshua Sijuwade on the monarchy of the Father

McIntosh, ed. - Craig vs. Hasker vs. Branson vs. Tuggy - One God, Three Persons, Four Views: A Biblical, Theological, and Philosophical Dialogue on the Doctrine of the Trinity

podcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformation

Craig, "Is God the Son Begotten in His Divine Nature?"

podcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the Bible

How Trinity theories conflict with the New Testament

Loke-Tuggy debate: Does the NT Teach that Jesus is Truly Divine?

The Tuggy-Brown debate: Dale’s opening statement

podcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”

podcast 260 – How to Argue that the Bible is Trinitarian

podcast 384 – Mainstream Christian Theologies in the Late 100s – Early 200s and Early Trinitarian “Fool’s Gold”

podcast 381 – Mainstream Christian Theologies in the year 240: What Trinitarian Apologists Don’t Know

the concept of a triune God an anachronism in the first three centuries

podcast 26 – Pastor Sean Finnegan on “the Holy Spirit” – Part 2

podcast 25 – Pastor Sean Finnegan on “the Holy Spirit” – Part 1

podcast 271 – Does your Trinity theory require relative identity?

the apologetics blind-spot on numerical identity

This week's thinking music is "Ridgeway Drive" by Mr. Smith.

In this second part (first part here) we hear the rest of this podcast by Cold Case Christianity apologist and former cold case detective J. Warner Wallace.

In this part he tries to define "the doctrine of the Trinity" by quoting a portion of the so-called "Athanasian Creed." He then argues that this doctrine is necessary for understanding the atonement, and gives his version of the philosophical argument that God could not be a single someone because then he would fail to be perfect in love.

I critique these arguments, then share four of the many facts which led me to reconsider my position on the Bible and "the doctrine of the Trinity." I end by recommending four good sources for a student of Scripture who is trying to figure out whether or not the Bible teaches a Trinity doctrine: biblicalunitarian.com, the REV translation, and Dr. Dustin Smith's Biblical Unitarian Podcast. I also discuss Mr. Wallace's habit of referring to "the triune nature of God," explaining why some trinitarians affirm and others deny that divinity implies tripersonality.

Has Wallace shown that the Trinity is an essential Christian doctrine? Let us know what you think in the comments below or in the trinities podcast Facebook Group.

Links for this episode:

podcast 2 – the “Athanasian Creed”

J.N.D. Kelly, The Athanasian Creed

Tuggy, "Antiunitarian Arguments from Divine Perfection" - a general refutation of a whole range of arguments from divine perfections, e.g. love, against unitarian theologies.

podcast 286 – Is the Trinity Essential? – Three Views

podcast 63 – Thomas Belsham and other scholars on John 8:58 – Trinities

McIntosh, Ed., One God, Three Persons, Four Views - a four way debate between Branson, Craig, Hasker, and Tuggy.

Kermit Zarley on “My Lord and my God.”

This week’s thinking music is “Bad Guys” by Dirk Dehler.

In this and the next episode I engage with an episode by Cold Case Christianity apologist J. Warner Wallace called "Why is the Trinity an Essential Doctrine?" (Also here. Alternate title: "Is the Trinity Contradictory?")

We first hear him explain how crime-solving police detectives reason using Inference to the Best Explanation, or what some call abductive reasoning. This is an approach I endorse; among other places I have made use of it here and here and here. But as you'll hear, Mr. Wallace abandons this method entirely when it comes to "the doctrine of the Trinity."

Topics in this first part include:

Links for this episode:

Cold Case Christianity

God's Crime Scene: A Cold-Case Detective Examines the Evidence for a Divinely Created Universe

What is the Trinity?

the evolution of my views on the Trinity

Dale's publications at PhilPapers, Academia.edu, and Google Scholar

podcast 126 – What is an evangelical? With Kermit Zarley

"Trinity," Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

Dale Tuggy and James White debate: "Is Jesus YHWH?"

McIntosh, ed., Branson, Craig, Hasker, and Tuggy: One God, Three Persons, Four Views

podcast 232 – Trinity Club Orientation

Dale Tuggy - Trinitarian "Fool's Gold" - Mainstream Christian Theologies - Late 100's to Early 200's

Dale Tuggy - Christian theologies in the year 240

podcast 227 – Who Should Christians Worship?

Dunn, Did the First Christians Worship Jesus?: The New Testament

proskuneo

podcast 259 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 2

podcast 258 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 1

podcast 26 – Pastor Sean Finnegan on “the Holy Spirit” – Part 2

podcast 25 – Pastor Sean Finnegan on “the Holy Spirit” – Part 1

a reading of Philippians 2:5-11

podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Bible

Scriptures discussed include: Acts 5:3-5; Mark 12:28-34; Deuteronomy 6:4; John 8:40; John 17:1-3; Matthew 2:11; Isaiah 44:24; John 1:1-3; Job 33:4; Mark 13:32; Matthew 24:36; John 4:25; John 16:30; 2 Samuel 20:14; 1 Corinthians 2:10-11; 1 Kings 8:27; Matthew 18:20; Psalm 139:7-12; Romans 15:30.

This week's thinking music is "Bad Guys" by Dirk Dehler.

In this episode you'll hear my presentation from the October 2024 UCA Conference in Little Rock, Arkansas. In it I explain the theological landscape from the late 100s through the early 200s using the words of some writers in that era: the author of the Refutation of All Heresies (attributed by some to Hippolytus), Theodotus of Byzantium (as quoted by Epiphanius), Noetus of Smyrna and Zephyrinus (as reported in the Refutation).

I discuss gnostic "possessionist" Christologies, Dynamic Monarchianism, Modalistic Monarchianism, and Logos Theories, a.k.a. unitarian subordinationism, and the fallacy committed by trinitarian apologists who appeal to pre-Nicene authors as being trinitarian. I then discuss the views of some "early" authors which trinitarian apologists often appeal to: Athenagoras of Athens and Melito of Sardis.

I show you how to refute any claim that some early author is a trinitarian using these three requirements for being trinitarian:

Each and every known theologian in this period fails to have at least one of these requirements for being trinitarian. That is why the trinitarian "gold" projected onto these early texts by trinitarian apologists ends up being non-trinitarian "fool's gold."

Finally, when you realize that our surviving sources from this era are by Logos theorists, you may infer that most Christians in this era were Logos theorists. I explain why this is a mistake.

Here is AI-image-riddled video version at the UCA YouTube channel:

Links for this episode:

podcast 381 – Mainstream Christian Theologies in the year 240: What Trinitarian Apologists Don’t Know

Video version of podcast 381: Dale Tuggy at the 2024 UK International Conference

Gaston, Dynamic Monarchianism: The Earliest Christology?

Litwa, trans., Refutation of All Heresies

Thomas Gaston, at the 2024 UK International Conference: "Dynamic Monarchianism: The Earliest Christology"

Sean Finnegan at the 2024 UCA Conference in New Zealand: "An Honest Evaluation of Evidence for the Deity of Christ"

Susanne Lakin at the 2024 UCA Conference in Arkansas: "Biblical Anthropomorphism - Evidence of a Unipersonal God"

Sean Finnegan at the 2024 UCA Conference in Little Rock: "Isaiah 9:6 Explained: A Theophoric Approach"

This week's thinking music is "I Got to Go Now (Instrumental)" by Anthem of Rain.