Uncensored CMO

Syl Saller CBE is one of the most respected marketing leaders of her generation. Former Global Chief Marketing and Innovation Officer at Diageo, Syl helped lead a FTSE 10 business with more than 200 brands across 180 countries. Today, she’s an executive coach and mentor, President of The Marketing Society, and works closely with C-suite leaders to develop the next generation of marketing leadership.

In this episode, Syl shares what the CMO role at Diageo is really like, how to build strong relationships with CEOs and boards, and how to navigate imposter syndrome, difficult conversations, and career-defining moments. We also discuss why she left Diageo, what she’d do differently looking back, and the leadership lessons she now passes on to others.

Sign up to our live event, The Calling, on April 21st here:
https://event.uncensoredcmo.com/events/uncensoredcmo/2044861

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:53 - What’s a CMO role at Diageo really like?
02:56 - How to have difficult conversations
03:59 - Whats it like being on the board of Diageo?
05:04 - Working with Sir Ivan Menezes, legendary Diageo CEO
09:10 - How to foster a great relationship with your CEO
12:38 - How Syl Saller’s childhood shaped her into the leader she is today
18:57 - What would Syl Saller do differently in her career
21:29 - How to deal with imposter syndrome as a leader
25:31 - How to figure out your life and career plan
28:08 - The toolkit for planning success
31:40 - Why the challenging moments in life can have the best outcomes
34:17 - Maintaining a good work life balance with a senior job
38:51 - Why Syl left Diageo in 2020
40:11 - Why Syl Saller became a leadership coach after leaving Diageo
43:10 - Three bits of leadership advice from Syl Saller

This is an episode of the Uncensored Renegades podcast. To hear episodes of this new show, subscribe here:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

When you define any other business function, the answer is simple. What is finance? What is HR? What is IT?

When you ask, what is marketing? The answer is broad. Is it sales? Is it storytelling? Is it brand?

In this episode, Kory and Jon dig into some of the words used to define marketing and decrypt some of the findings.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:15 - Why is marketing hard to define?
04:35 - Why brand is so important
08:36 - How your brand shows up when hiring people
10:36 - The words that describe marketing
14:47 - Do marketers neglect the role of strategy?
17:25 - The most surprising words that define marketing
18:39 - The power of storytelling

The last time I spoke to today's guest, James Watt, he fired me. It's the first thing we talk about in the episode, but I have nothing but respect for the man who built Brewdog into the Unicorn it is today. Through their impressive marketing stunts, focus on product quality and immense speed of execution, Brewdog successfully took on the beer behemoths and solidified its place in the industry. In this episode we talk about why James made a mistake hiring an executive team (including me), how they convinced a bank to give them a loan in the global financial crisis and how he almost lost £50m to a Russian bank account. Now, James has launched a new venture, Social Tip, a new way brands can connect with consumers.

Sign up to our live event, The Calling, on April 21st here:
https://event.uncensoredcmo.com/events/uncensoredcmo/2044861

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:58 - Why did James fire Jon?
01:56 - Being in the detail and close to the customer
06:07 - Brewdog founding story: how they got funding
08:54 - Why Brewdog is so passionate about making a great product
13:07 - How Brewdog won their Tesco listing
15:58 - How a Tesco listing transformed Brewdog
17:37 - The secret to an overnight success
20:22 - Why constraints led to great marketing for Brewdog
22:09 - Examples of Brewdog’s incredible marketing stunts
27:43 - Why James changed his name to Elvis
29:28 - Collaborating with copycats: launching ALD IPA
31:14 - When marketing stunts go wrong
33:28 - How James almost lost £50 million
37:48 - James Watt’s favourite business books
41:17 - How James Watt felt when he left Brewdog
43:01 - Leadership lessons from James Watt about scaling
46:05 - Dealing with public scrutiny
47:26 - Why James started his new business: Social Tip
54:03 - How to pitch your business to James Watt

This is the first episode of the Uncensored Renegades podcast. To hear episodes of this new show, subscribe here:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Know your e.l.f.ing numbers - it's your responsibility as a leader. Jon and Kory share stories of when this has helped them in roles, and share advice on how CMOs can be successful in getting more budget, taking bigger risks and, ultimately, grow the brand (for 25 consecutive quarters in Kory’s case).

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:34 - You just do the cutting, sticking and colouring in
01:42 - Why knowing your numbers is so important for CMOs
05:25 - Making the case for long term marketing investment
08:10 - Why CMOs need to earn the right to take risks
12:05 - Managing internal politics in the c-suite
15:16 - Kory’s formula to create successful work

Jenn Chase, CMO of SAS, joins us to share how one of the world’s most established AI and analytics companies is reinventing its brand. From launching SAS’s first brand campaign in 25 years to shifting the organisation from performance-led to brand-led thinking, Jenn walks through what it takes to drive meaningful change inside a founder-led business.

We also discuss how COVID reshaped the brand, why SAS is leaning into humour, the decision to sponsor Liverpool FC, and where AI is having the biggest impact on marketing today. Plus, Jenn shares leadership lessons, the skills every modern CMO needs, and how to build a great culture.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:00 - What is SAS?
02:11 - Being a founder led business after 50 years
04:38 - Being at the company for 27 years
06:03 - How Jenn became CMO of SAS
07:57 - How COVID changed the brand forever
08:33 - Launching their first brand campaign in 25 years
09:22 - Convincing the business to switch from performance to brand
10:45 - Creating an effective relationship with the finance team
14:31 - What did the business think of the first brand campaign in 25 years?
17:22 - How did they manage the effectiveness of their brand campaign?
22:04 - Why their new campaign leans into humour
24:28 - Why SAS decided to sponsor Liverpool FC
27:06 - How to sell in a big idea to an organisation?
32:16 - Where is AI having the biggest impact in marketing?
36:25 - Leadership advice from Brene Brown
39:54 - Skills to be a successful CMO
42:59 - What creates a great culture
45:12 - How big of a change will AI search be
47:08 - The 95:5 rule

This is the first episode of the Uncensored Renegades podcast. To hear episodes of this new show, subscribe here:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Failure needs to be rebranded. Most see it negatively, but history shows great successes are followed shortly after failures. Jon and Kory tackle the stigma against failures, why we should embrace them across the organisations we work for. They also share their biggest failures in their career and what they’ve learned from them.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:54 - Why are we afraid to talk about failure?
04:07 - Why failures set you up for success
11:11 - Jon’s biggest failure
18:20 - Kory’s biggest failure

After collaborating with Worldwide Partners on the Confessions of a CMO report (the anonymous report asking top tier CMOs what they really think about the state of the role), I thought I'd team up with the world's most opinionated professor to discuss some of the comments. We talk tenure, politics, management and more.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:04 - How the Uncensored CMO started
02:41 - How Confessions of a CMO originated
03:44 - The CMO tenure data
06:35 - Why the CMO role isn’t dead, it’s just changing
12:02 - The real 4 Ps of a CMO
18:57 - Becoming the Chief Mood Officer
22:16 - Why marketing needs to provide the meaning for the business
27:04 - Why CMOs need to combine data and storytelling
28:38 - Why CMOs need to create momentum
40:53 - Were there any surprises from the report?

About Worldwide Partners:

Worldwide Partners, Inc. (WPI), the world’s most collaborative agency network, enables growth through access, flexibility and partnership. With over 90 independent agencies in more than 50 countries, and experience in over 90 industry verticals, Worldwide Partners serves as a hub that harnesses the talent, expertise and diversified capabilities of the agencies within our network to reimagine growth for both brands and agencies.

Listen to the launch episode of my brand new show, Uncensored Renegades, co-hosted with Kory Marchisotto, CMO of e.l.f. and a previous guest on Uncensored CMO.

Listen to the new show here:

• Apple Podcasts
• Spotify

In Uncensored Renegades, we talk about the things most people are too afraid to discuss: being fired, failure, terrible bosses, and more.

Get to know your hosts, Jon Evans and Kory Marchisotto, hear why we started the show, and find out what’s coming next.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:06 - Background to Uncensored Renegades
01:59 - Why Renegades?
02:39 - The response to Jon’s launch post
05:48 - What topics will be discussed on the show?
08:47 - The partnership that led to the podcast
11:50 - Why the name “Renegades”?
13:54 - Getting to know Jon and Kory
27:45 - What do you do to recharge?
38:33 - Inspiring books
41:32 - Crowdsourcing topic ideas

Our most popular guest ever is back - Rory Sutherland returns for a wide-ranging conversation on why marketing works best when it embraces luck, spontaneity, and a little irrationality. From the dangers of confected outrage and self-censorship to the unfair economics of marketing, Rory challenges the industry’s obsession with logic, optimisation, and process.

We discuss why success is often misunderstood as skill rather than luck, the value of doing a few things irresponsibly, and why inefficiency can be a feature rather than a flaw. As ever, Rory connects behavioural science, creativity, and business reality in ways few others can.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:16 - How Rory deals with his new micro fame
03:12 - How Jon shut down the London Underground
07:04 - The problem with confected outrage
10:34 - How self-censoring is affecting creativity
12:10 - The power of spontaneity and luck in advertising
16:03 - The unfair economics of marketing
20:54 - Is success just luck?
23:12 - Spend 95% responsibly, and 5% irresponsibly
30:12 - Doubling down on what your competitors do badly
34:32 - Why so many businesses are no longer customer focused
35:29 - Inefficiency as a feature
37:08 - The power of herd mentality
43:26 - What marketers can teach the business world
48:13 - Why internal process is killing businesses
51:15 - Lessons from 200 years of The Spectator advertising
54:47 - Rory’s closing thoughts on marketing

Les Binet and Sarah Carter are back for our yearly special, tacking the biggest marketing stories of the year and what to focus on in 2026. We explore the power of consistency, disguised repetition, and why brands so often misunderstand campaigns. Les and Sarah explain why big brands can’t behave like small ones (and vice versa), how marketers can persuade businesses to invest more in the long term, and whether we’re seeing the end of the purpose era and a return to product-led growth. We also look ahead to the role of AI versus craft in advertising, and what the evidence suggests for the year ahead.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:38 - The year of consistency
05:26 - Disguised repetition
11:13 - Do we define campaigns wrong?
12:27 - Why you need to go big on your media spend
17:07 - Why big brands can’t market like small brands and vice versa
23:15 - How can you persuade your business to spend more
28:52 - Why don’t we do the long term work, despite the evidence
34:19 - Why everyone is wrong about CMO tenure
37:18 - Have we seen the end of the purpose era? (and the renaissance of product)
44:50 - AI vs craft in advertising