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Understanding and Using Dreams to Learn and to Forget | Episode 5


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Huberman Lab


Podcast Notes Key Takeaways
  • Sleep is broken up into 90-minute blocks called “ultradian rhythm”
  • Slow-wave (non-REM) sleep takes place earlier in the night
  • As sleep progresses throughout the night, REM sleep takes up more time
  • Things that happen in slow0wave sleep: motor learning, motor skill learning, details about specific events
  • Lack of REM sleep tends to make people emotionally irritable – we tend to catastrophize small things because we can’t unlearn the emotionality of events
  • The mechanisms of Ketamine and PCP bear striking resemblance to patterns of REM sleep and are sometimes used as therapeutics
  • “Sleep deprivation isn’t just deprivation of energy or deprivation of immune function, it’s deprivation of self-induced therapy every time we go to sleep.” – Dr. Andrew Huberman
  • New research highlights that it may be more important to get a consistent amount of sleep versus the hours of sleep each night
  • To improve sleep quality: limit fluids before bed, perform resistance exercise during the day, limit alcohol, and marijuana


Read the full notes @ podcastnotes.org



This episode is all about the two major kinds of dreams and the sorts of learning and unlearning they are used for. I discuss REM-associated dreams that control emotional learning and their similarity to various trauma treatments such as ketamine and EMDR. I also discuss Non-REM dreams and their role in motor learning and learning of detailed, non-emotionally-laden information. I relate this to science-backed tools for accessing more of the types of sleep and learning people may want. Other topics are listed in the time stamps below.

Thank you to our sponsors:

  • Helix Sleep - http://helixsleep.com/huberman
  • Athletic Greens - http://athleticgreens.com/huberman

Supplements from Thorne:

  • http://www.thorne.com/u/huberman

Timestamps below.

  • 00:00 Introduction
  • 03:00 The Dream Mask
  • 06:00 Cycling Sleep
  • 08:10 Chemical Cocktails of Sleep
  • 13:00 Motor Learning
  • 16:30 High Performance with Less Sleep
  • 17:45 Rapid Eye Movement Sleep
  • 20:30 Paralysis & Hallucinations
  • 23:35 Nightmares
  • 24:45 When REM & Waking Collide
  • 25:00 Sleeping While Awake
  • 26:45 Alien Abductions
  • 29:00 Irritability
  • 30:00 Sleep to Delete
  • 32:25 Creating Meaning
  • 34:10 Adults Acting Like Children
  • 36:20 Trauma & REM
  • 37:15 EMDR
  • 39:10 Demo
  • 44:25 Ketamine / PCP
  • 45:45 Soup, Explosions, & NMDA
  • 48:55 Self Therapy
  • 50:30 Note About Hormones
  • 51:40 Measuring REM / SWS
  • 53:15 Sleep Consistency
  • 56:00 Bed Wetting
  • 58:00 Serotonin
  • 59:00 Increasing SWS
  • 59:50 Lucidity
  • 1:02:15 Booze / Weed
  • 1:03:50 Scripting Dreams
  • 1:04:35 Theory of Mind
  • 1:07:55 Synthesis
  • 1:10:00 Intermittent Sleep Deprivation
  • 1:11:10 Snoring Disclaimer
  • 1:11:40 New Topic
  • 1:15:50 Corrections
  • 1:17:25 Closing Remarks

As always, thank you for your interest in science!

Please note that The Huberman Lab Podcast is distinct from Dr. Huberman's teaching and research roles at Stanford University School of Medicine. The information provided in this show is not medical advice, nor should it be taken or applied as a replacement for medical advice. The Huberman Lab Podcast, its employees, guests and affiliates assume no liability for the application of the information discussed.

[Title Card Photo Credit: Mike Blabac https://www.blabacphoto.com/]

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