Why do certain spices and dishes show up far from their origins, and how can tracing these cultural "foodways" change the way we think about wine and food pairing? Why did Cha create her own flavour wheel rather than rely on traditional wine-tasting vocabulary? How can expanding your flavour vocabulary through travel, food, and culture help us describe wine in ways that feel relatable?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Cha McCoy, author of the new book Wine Pairing for the People.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of Cha McCoy's terrific new book, Wine Pairing for the People: The Communion of Wine, Food, and Culture from Africa and Beyond. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

Which one of Cha's wine and food pairings might receive the most pushback from traditionalists?

What does cultural terroir mean?

How do cultural factors influence a country's wine preferences and the wine styles it produces?

Why does Brazil's vibrant culture make sparkling wine such a natural fit?

What are foodways, and how does the journey of ingredients and dishes inform the cultural connections between food and wine pairings across continents?

How did Cha navigate pairing wines for Senegalese dishes when her formal training had not prepared her for those flavours?

Why does Cha recommend rich, aromatic white wines for onion and garlic-heavy dishes?

How did tasting local drinks expand Cha's wine vocabulary and approach to wine education for diverse audiences?

Why did Cha create her own flavour wheel that included references and descriptors that differ from traditional industry flavour wheels?

How can building a personal flavour wheel help drinkers trust their own palates and avoid feeling intimidated by industry jargon?

What change would Cha make to wine education to make it more globally inclusive?

Key Takeaways

Why do certain spices and dishes show up far from their origins, and how can tracing these cultural "foodways" change the way we think about wine and food pairing? You'll see Peri Peri often, and you're nowhere near South Africa, which says a lot about foodways. That act of tracing it back is the foodways.

Why did Cha create her own flavour wheel rather than rely on traditional wine-tasting vocabulary? The flavour wheel is commonly used in beginner wine classes to help folks navigate deductive tasting. Why would I start throwing in references that I don't use and smell often? Let's say saffron, turmeric, these are spices that are in my spice cabinet because I cook with them. I find them in wine, even though the WSET vocabulary doesn't use them. You can build your own flavour wheel.

How can expanding your flavour vocabulary through travel, food, and culture help us describe wine in ways that feel relatable? Visiting Turkey and Morocc, made Cha understand their drinking culture. Knowing what that background is helps her explain wines that were… I can translate this wine, knowing that fact about them, or in a restaurant that I know, or a chef making a dish that's related to this. I wanted to stay away from using vocabularies that is not, you know, if I'm talking to my demographic, I know where they're from, and I know what they're drinking, or I know what they're eating. And so when you are traveling, immersed in fruits and juices, different ways that you can have that. And now it adds to your own lexicon.

About Cha McCoy

Cha McCoy, MBA, is an entrepreneur, educator, event producer, and author. As a certified sommelier with the Court of Master Sommeliers, she developed The Communion, a wine dinner series that offers an inviting, accessible approach to gathering and enjoying wine. This experience inspired her to open her first retail space, The Communion Wine & Spirits. The dinner series was profiled in Food & Wine, and Cha was named one of Wine Enthusiast's 40 Under 40. Her work continues through her highly anticipated book, Wine Pairing for the People: The Communion of Wine, Food, and Culture from Africa and Beyond, available now for pre-order and scheduled for release in November. Cha has held coveted positions such as Cherry Bombe Magazine's first beverage director, the head of beverage for the Charleston Wine + Food Festival, and a sommelier at a Michelin-starred restaurant in Portugal and John Fraser Restaurant in New York.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/365.

How can you pair wine with spicy dishes in a way that enhances their flavour profile? Why do most wine-pairing guides ignore the traditions of global cuisines? How can you use wine pairings to explore under-the-radar wine regions instead of reaching for the same rosé or sparkling wine every time?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Cha McCoy, author of the terrific new book Wine Pairing for the People.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of Cha McCoy's terrific new book, Wine Pairing for the People: The Communion of Wine, Food, and Culture from Africa and Beyond. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

Which moment in Italy transformed Cha's wine hobby into a professional calling?

What inspired Cha to launch The Communion, a wine dinner series in Harlem?

How did those shared wine experiences help guests learn, connect, and form a community?

What challenges did Cha face when opening The Communion Wine and Spirits in Syracuse?

How does Cha's new book, Wine Pairing for the People, step away from traditional pairing rules to explore often-ignored global cuisines?

How should you think about the key flavour components when pairing wine and food?

How can underrepresented wine regions and lesser-known styles expand pairing possibilities?

What is the most unusual or surprising wine-and-food pairing in Wine Pairing for the People?

How can spice-lovers think about choosing wines to enhance dishes like jerk chicken?

Key Takeaways

How can you pair wine with spicy dishes in a way that enhances their flavour profile? By playing up to the flavours of the spicy dish. For folks who can take a little bit of spice, by finding the elements within the seasoning, you can do more of a comparison than contrasting, which is what we're normally taught.

Why do most wine-pairing guides ignore the traditions of global cuisines? When it comes to wine pairings for food from different cultures, most guides focus heavily on the Western world or European food culture. These would be really thick books that talked in depth about the pairings, but also lacked context. That was something Cha wanted to really challenge.

How can you use wine pairings to explore under-the-radar wine regions instead of reaching for the same rosé or sparkling wine every time? There is something to say about exploring not just the cultures that we're pairing with, but different wines from different regions and underrepresented regions. Let's explore, maybe, an underrepresented region that does sparkling wine and sparkling rosé really well to give you an alternative. There are many ways you can have Rosé, Chardonnay, or sparkling wine that will give you a different effect.

About Cha McCoy

Cha McCoy, MBA, is an entrepreneur, educator, event producer, and author. As a certified sommelier with the Court of Master Sommeliers, she developed The Communion, a wine dinner series that offers an inviting, accessible approach to gathering and enjoying wine. This experience inspired her to open her first retail space, The Communion Wine & Spirits. The dinner series was profiled in Food & Wine, and Cha was named one of Wine Enthusiast's 40 Under 40. Her work continues through her highly anticipated book, Wine Pairing for the People: The Communion of Wine, Food, and Culture from Africa and Beyond, available now for pre-order and scheduled for release in November. Cha has held coveted positions such as Cherry Bombe Magazine's first beverage director, the head of beverage for the Charleston Wine + Food Festival, and a sommelier at a Michelin-starred restaurant in Portugal and John Fraser Restaurant in New York.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/364.

Are high-end non-alcoholic drinks worth the price? What is the bartender's secret to great citrus-based cocktails like Margaritas or Mimosas? How do bartenders redefine a crafted cocktail without alcohol? Why does the term "Mocktail" for zero-proof non-alcoholic drinks offend many bartenders?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Elva Ramirez, author of the award-winning books Sparkling and Zero Proof.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of Elva Ramirez's terrific book, Sparkling: Champagne and Sparkling Cocktails for Any Occasion. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

How did bartenders at Dante in New York discover that burrata water could replace egg whites in a Champagne Ramos cocktail?

Why should citrus juice be used within hours, and how can leftover juice be transformed instead of being wasted?

What are the biggest mistakes home bartenders make with bottled juices?

Why do large ice blocks make a better punch than cubes?

What inspired Elva to write Zero Proof?

How did she recognize that the non-alcoholic movement was becoming a lasting cultural shift?

How does America's long-standing tension between loving alcohol and fearing its effects still shape drinking culture today?

What was the infamous "Raines Sandwich," and how did it expose the loopholes in New York's early drinking laws?

How do public declarations like temperance pledges connect to today's Dry January social media posts?

Why did the US Army go completely dry in 1917 and how did that decision pave the way for Prohibition?

Why do professional bartenders dislike the word mocktail and prefer the term "zero proof"?

How did Seedlip, the first distilled non-alcoholic spirit, transform modern bar culture?

Why are alcohol-free cocktails sometimes as expensive as traditional ones?

How is the culture around not drinking changing?

Why does Elva believe opting out of drinking should feel as natural as any other choice?

Key Takeaways

Are high-end non-alcoholic drinks worth the price?

There's a real conversation happening among consumers: "Why am I paying $16 for a non-alcoholic drink?" But what you're not seeing is all the work that happened three days before to get you that drink. So what you're seeing when you get an expensive non-alcoholic drink is really the result of a lot of effort in the kitchen before it ever gets to the bar.

How do bartenders redefine a crafted cocktail without alcohol?

Bartenders are challenging themselves in this space. They were saying, "Okay, what if I take the alcohol out but still make something that's crafted, that still has balance?" They were doing all these really interesting experiments. They were using teas, ferments, and all these different things. That was really the seed of Zero Proof - the idea of how to continue evolving this craft and keep it inclusive.

Why does the term "Mocktail" for zero-proof non-alcoholic drinks offend many bartenders?

Bartenders prefer the term zero-proof, because "mock" means to make fun of or fake. They don't want the consumer to feel like they're making a lesser choice or not being seen in their choice when they order a non-alcoholic drink. They're also putting as much effort, if not more, into making these really beautiful non-alcoholic drinks.

About Elva Ramirez

Elva Ramirez is an author, journalist and brand strategist. She is the author of "Sparkling" and "Zero Proof," which were both finalists for Best Cocktail Book at Tales of the Cocktail in their respective years. "Sparkling" is a finalist for IACP's 2025 Best Cookbook Awards. Elva holds an MBA from CUNY Baruch College and a Master's in journalism from Columbia University.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/363.

How did a magical Dom Pérignon Champagne tasting of 60 rare vintages reveal the surprising depth and aging potential of sparkling Rosé? What surprising role did the British play in the discovery of sparkling wine? What makes the Porn Star Martini one of the most crowd-pleasing cocktails?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Elva Ramirez, author of the award-winning books "Sparkling" and "Zero Proof."

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of Elva Ramirez's terrific book, Sparkling: Champagne and Sparkling Cocktails for Any Occasion. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

What happened when Elva accidentally triggered an alarm at Veuve Clicquot's private estate in France?

How did her career as a Wall Street Journal reporter lead her into the world of cocktails and Champagne?

How did years working in restaurants teach Elva to "speak bartender" and shape her storytelling style?

What was it like attending an exclusive Dom Pérignon Rosé dinner featuring decades of rare vintages?

What did that tasting reveal about how aged Rosé Champagne evolves and expresses itself over time?

How does Elva's book, Sparkling, showcase the creativity of world-class bartenders and Champagne houses?

What surprising history did she uncover about who truly discovered sparkling wine?

Why did Champagne dominate New York's Gilded Age, when most of America's supply was consumed in just a few city blocks?

How did bartenders in the 1800s turn Champagne into a cultural symbol of luxury and celebration?

What are the stories behind Prince Albert Edward's "Prince of Wales" cocktail and Ernest Hemingway's "Death in the Afternoon"?

How can you choose the right sparkling wine for cocktails?

Why should Lambrusco be reconsidered as a serious, fruit-forward sparkling wine?

March 2016, Dom Pérignon was releasing a new Rosé vintage and threw a portfolio dinner serving every Dom Pérignon Rosé ever released. The aha moment for Elva was, up until about the mid-80s, it's still a fresh, sparkling rose that we know, but from the 80s, all of a sudden, the colour completely deepens, and all these Pinot characters just come out of it. The fact that it had aged so well surprised her.

The Champagne region has been famous for wine for a very, very long time, and it's believed that people have been making wine there since before the Roman era but the English are actually credited with "discovering" sparkling wine. They figured out how to make the bubbles happen and that they liked it.

The Porn Star Martini features vanilla vodka, passion-fruit purée and then separately, you're served a very cold shot of Champagne or sparkling wine. Instantly, it was a hit because the combination of vanilla and passionfruit, people get it right away. So this is like a cocktail and a shot. You can drink one and then drink the other, or you can take the shot and pour it in the glass.

About Elva Ramirez

Elva Ramirez is an author, journalist and brand strategist. She is the author of "Sparkling" and "Zero Proof," which were both finalists for Best Cocktail Book at Tales of the Cocktail in their respective years. "Sparkling" is a finalist for IACP's 2025 Best Cookbook Awards. Elva holds an MBA from CUNY Baruch College and a Master's in journalism from Columbia University.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/362.

How can carbon offsetting claims in the wine industry be a form of greenwashing? How does the natural fermentation process in winemaking create one of the most concentrated sources of CO₂ emissions in any industry? Can yeast selection and fermentation techniques make winemaking more sustainable?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Andrew Neather & Jane Masters.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of Andrew Neather & Jane Masters' terrific new book, Rooted in Change: The Stories Behind Sustainable Wine. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

How is the Familia Torres winery treating CO₂ as a resource instead of waste?

How are yeast choices and co-inoculation helping winemakers reduce energy use?

Why are some wineries implementing modern updates of old, low-tech winemaking techniques?

How are importers and producers utilizing rail and sea transport to reduce their carbon footprint?

What can the Nordic wine monopoly, Systembolaget, teach the rest of the world about sustainable practices?

How does greenwashing appear in wine marketing, and why should consumers be wary of carbon offsetting claims?

Which certifications and labels can wine lovers actually trust when choosing bottles?

How does social sustainability, from fair wages to housing, shape the future of responsible winemaking?

How do these issues of climate change and sustainability affect people's lives beyond the vineyards?

Key Takeaways

How can carbon offsetting claims in the wine industry be a form of greenwashing? For a consumer, I would be suspicious of anyone who is using carbon offsetting to claim they're carbon neutral. The company will pay for trees to be planted, low-energy lightbulbs or stoves in the developing world. it's fine if it actually adds to capacity. The tree planting, it's highly questionable how much good it does. it's really better for a company to ask themselves, how can we reduce our carbon emissions?

How does the natural fermentation process in winemaking create one of the most concentrated sources of CO₂ emissions in any industry? The yeast carries out the alcoholic fermentation. So as they do that, they're metabolizing the sugar, creating ethanol, which is alcohol, creating a load of heat and carbon dioxide. The thing about wine is that the emissions that come out of the top of a wine tank are the most concentrated CO2 emissions of any industry at all.

Can yeast selection and fermentation techniques make winemaking more sustainable? Yeasts have been selected over years for certain traits, such as particular flavors, producing less compounds such as acetic acid, which we call volatile acidity. At the end of the day, sustainability also includes economic sustainability, so we need to maximize everything that we've grown in the field to get the best possible quality wine.

About Jane Masters and Andrew Neather

Jane Masters became a Master of Wine in 1997 and was elected as Chairman of the Institute of Masters of Wine in September 2016. She is an independent wine consultant with over 30 years of experience and clients around the world as well as working with the Majestic Wine Grp in UK. She has also filmed several wine shows and written sections for Jancis Robinson's Oxford Companion to Wine and Wine Opus.

Andrew Neather is a freelance British journalist. A former academic historian, environmental campaigner, political speechwriter and newspaper journalist, he was the London Evening Standard's wine critic, 2005-15. He now blogs weekly on wine and food at A View from my Table, writes a regular column for Tim Atkin MW's website, and has contributed to publications including The Independent, Harpers and Club Oenologique.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/361.

How can the wine world help tackle climate change, and why is choosing sustainable and biodynamic wines not enough? What happens when vineyards embrace biodiversity with cover crops, insects, and wildlife? How are wine producers in South Africa rebuilding natural ecosystems around their vineyards?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Andrew Neather & Jane Masters.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of Andrew Neather & Jane Masters' terrific new book, Rooted in Change: The Stories Behind Sustainable Wine. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

How have Jane and Andrew's wine careers led to many interesting experiences around the world?

What will you read about in Jane and Andrew's new book, Rooted in Change?

How did Andrew and Jane become interested in sustainability in the wine world?

How did Jane and Andy come to collaborate on writing their book and how do their skills and style complement each other?

Was it challenging not to sound alarmist while effectively presenting the urgency of climate change and sustainability?

How can consumers help reduce their environmental impact when choosing wines?

What changes are happening in the wine industry to change packaging standards to reduce carbon emissions?

What can we learn from the innovations in biodiversity-focused viticulture taking place in South Africa?

Can regenerative viticulture and its principles be adopted on a large scale by major producers as well as boutique wineries?

Key Takeaways

There's no doubt that climate change is happening and there aren't easy solutions. We're very often led to believe that with consumer capitalism, you can buy a certain product or avoid a certain type of packaging, say, and that everything will be okay. And it's really just much more complicated than that, because you're talking about the complexity of global supply chains, all sorts of industrial processes associated with packaging and other things. It doesn't mean to say you can't make sensible choices as a consumer.

The great thing about vines is that, like fruit trees, orchards, they live for a long time. The roots go very far down into the ground. By creating this biodiversity, it also builds the insects and all the life in the soil. It becomes a natural, organic circular economy. And that helps protect vines against disease. Some of these insects keep the predators from the vines at bay. So it just becomes a much more resilient system that also captures and retains more carbon within it.

In South Africa, in the Western Cape, the natural vegetation before it was cultivated is called fynbos. Johan Reyneke, a biodynamic producer in Stellenbosch, is rewilding bits of his land to join together these islands into corridors. The animals came back quickly and it's restoring the natural balance of the land.

About Jane Masters and Andrew Neather

Jane Masters became a Master of Wine in 1997 and was elected as Chairman of the Institute of Masters of Wine in September 2016. She is an independent wine consultant with over 30 years of experience and clients around the world as well as working with the Majestic Wine Grp in UK. She has also filmed several wine shows and written sections for Jancis Robinson's Oxford Companion to Wine and Wine Opus.

Andrew Neather is a freelance British journalist. A former academic historian, environmental campaigner, political speechwriter and newspaper journalist, he was the London Evening Standard's wine critic, 2005-15. He now blogs weekly on wine and food at A View from my Table, writes a regular column for Tim Atkin MW's website, and has contributed to publications including The Independent, Harpers and Club Oenologique.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/360.

How is the Spanish sparkling wine Cava different from the Italian bubbly Prosecco? What makes Xarel·lo stand out from Spain's other traditional Cava grapes? How did Alicante's Monastrell grape give rise to the rare Fondillón wine, and what makes it different from Port or Sherry?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Sarah Jane Evans, author of the terrific new book The Wines of Central and Southern Spain: From Catalunya to Cadiz.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of Sarah Jane Evans' wonderful new book, The Wines of Central and Southern Spain: From Catalunya to Cadiz. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

What do you need to know about Xarel·lo and Spanish sparkling wine?

How does Cava compare to Prosecco?

What effect does the aging process used for premium Cavas have on their taste profile, and how does it compare to Champagne?

What is the historical significance of the Terra Alta region?

Which historical artifacts has Sarah Jane encountered while visiting Spanish vineyards?

How does Richard Ford's 1840s observation about Valencia still define Spanish wine culture in the Valencia region?

What might surprise you about the ancient amphorae in Valencia and how they're used in modern winemaking?

How do the three main styles of Sherry differ?

Which types of glassware and food pair best with Sherry?

What are copitas, and how do they differ from other glasses used for Sherry?

How does serving temperature affect our enjoyment of Sherry?

What do you need to know about wine and the Canary Islands?

What challenges and opportunities does Sarah Jane see for the future of the Spanish wine industry?

Key Takeaways

How is the Spanish sparkling wine Cava different from the Italian bubbly Prosecco?

Prosecco bubbles are created and captured in the tank to make it a pleasantly fizzy drink. Whereas Cava is made exactly like Champagne. It's aged in the bottle with its yeast. It begins to develop other aromas which are nothing to do with flowers or fruits. The youngest Cava, can be released at nine months, younger than the youngest Champagne. If you're going to have a very young fizzy wine, then Prosecco is very appealing.

What makes Xarel·lo stand out from Spain's other traditional Cava grapes?

People have started to recognise that this white grape variety, once just a component in blending, can be grown on its own and produces lovely, fresh, excitingly lively wines that are not very high in alcohol. If you're making Cava, it's the one that will last. It has a capacity to age, which is better than the other two.

How did Alicante's Monastrell grape give rise to the rare Fondillón wine, and what makes it different from Port or Sherry?

Alicante is one of the places for Monastrell. Historically, they used to make a wine out of this red grape that got so ripe they didn't need to fortify it because the grape on the vine got so sweet that it turned itself into alcohol. Then it was a wine that was stable enough you could have it in a barrel. Then you could send it to India or to Africa, all around the world.

About Sarah Jane Evans

Sarah Jane is an award-winning writer. She travels widely as an educator and consultant, and is a Contributing Editor to Decanter. Her books include The Wines of Central and Southern Spain, The Wines of Northern Spain, Seville, Chocolate Unwrapped, and also the entries on Spain and Sherry for the annual Hugh Johnson Pocket Wine Guide. Sarah Jane received the Royal Order of Isabella the Catholic awarded by the King of Spain for her work for Spain. Beyond Spain, her special interests in wine are Greece, South America and the great fortified and sweet wines of the world.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/359.

How does the biggest misconception about Spanish wine make it a hidden gem for wine lovers? How did Spain's civil war and period of dictatorship delay the growth of its wine culture? What makes the vineyards of Priorat challenging to walk and unforgettable to visit?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Sarah Jane Evans, author of the terrific new book The Wines of Central and Southern Spain: From Catalunya to Cadiz.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of Sarah Jane Evans' wonderful new book, The Wines of Central and Southern Spain: From Catalunya to Cadiz. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

How did the memory of her parents bottling wine at home influence Sarah Jane's perception of wine?

What is the Oxford vs. Cambridge University Varsity Blind Wine-Tasting Match?

What was Sarah Jane's experience as a judge at wine competitions in Japan?

What's unique about Japan's peaches and why does Sarah Jane recommend them as a "can't miss" on a trip to Japan?

Why was Sarah Jane initially drawn to Spanish wine?

What is the Officer's Cross of the Royal Order of Isabella the Catholic and why was Sarah Jane awarded this honour?

Why did Sarah Jane choose to write her Master of Wine dissertation on the alchemists of Sherry?

What is the significance of Sarah Jane's choice to use first names when writing about winemakers?

What are the hallmark characteristics of Spanish orange wines?

Where are Spain and its territories located in Europe?

What's the biggest misconception about Spanish wine?

Why does Sarah Jane consider Spain the most exciting country in Europe for wine?

How are winemakers reviving old vineyards in Spain?

What makes Casa Castillo's Monastrell wines unique?

Key Takeaways

Unfortunately, people think of Spanish wine as cheap and cheerful. That image is hard to to get rid of. So when you look at a fine wine list, if you're in a Michelin-starred restaurant, you will start off with maybe Champagne, and then you'll have France, and then you'll get into Italy, and then, if you're lucky, Spain will come next. The good thing about that is that it makes very top wine in Spain, still very good value.

Since Spain had a civil war just before the Second World War, and after that, they had a fascist dictatorship that went on till the late 1970s, they didn't join Europe until the 1980s. So during that time of the dictatorship, they were told what to farm, where to farm, how to farm it. So there was no priority about fostering a wonderful wine culture. that's only really coming in the last 40 years. Spain has just been a little bit behind, but it has to escape, because you can't survive on paying growers next to nothing, making very cheap wines.

About Sarah Jane Evans

Sarah Jane is an award-winning writer. She travels widely as an educator and consultant, and is a Contributing Editor to Decanter. Her books include The Wines of Central and Southern Spain, The Wines of Northern Spain, Seville, Chocolate Unwrapped, and also the entries on Spain and Sherry for the annual Hugh Johnson Pocket Wine Guide. Sarah Jane received the Royal Order of Isabella the Catholic awarded by the King of Spain for her work for Spain. Beyond Spain, her special interests in wine are Greece, South America and the great fortified and sweet wines of the world.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/358.

How much of what we perceive about the taste of wine is actually shaped by psychology? Are vineyard soils important contributors to a wine's tasting profile? Why do so many wine producers highlight their soils as a unique factor that makes their wines stand out? Where do the "minerals" we taste in wine originate from?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Dr. Alex Maltman, author of the new book Taste the Limestone, Smell the Slate: A Geologist Wanders Through the World of Wine.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of Alex Maltman's terrific book, Taste the Limestone, Smell the Slate. A Geologist Wanders Through the World of Wine. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

What did a Dutch research study show about identifying soil type through blind tasting?

Is there any geological evidence to support volcanic soils imparting certain characteristics to wine?

Why can vines access nutrients from soil but not larger rock layers?

Should we consider the root stocks of vines and the type of yeast used for fermentation when analyzing the taste profile of a wine?

How does consumer psychology influence our perception of the taste of wine?

Which aspects of geology and wine is Alex planning to write about in the future?

If Alex could share a bottle of wine with anyone outside the wine world, who would that be?

Key Takeaways

How much of what we perceive about the taste of wine is actually shaped by psychology? It's the psychology that people think, "Oh, heavy bottle. This must be a classy wine." For many wine drinkers, what the wine expert says will override the more academic factors, rather like a clinician saying, take these tablets, you'll be better, if the wine authority says you're going to taste vanilla. Yeah, I'm getting vanilla.

Are vineyard soils important contributors to a wine's tasting profile? In one experiment, several growers planted four different grape varieties, each in different soils, and then tried to grow the grapes, vinify the grapes uniformly, and then sent the finished wines off to a completely independent expert tasting panel. The panelists were only able to group the wines according to variety. Soils didn't come through at all.

For wine producers, soil is one of the only factors that are difficult to replicate, so they're going to say their soil is special. It's a great selling point.

When some wine commentators are saying they're tasting minerals from the soil because it's been taken up by the vine root and transmitted through to the wine. Well, no, that doesn't happen like that. But in any case, any nutrients that were taken up by the vine root and did make it all the way through to the finished wine, almost certainly, in practice, will have originated in the humus.

About Dr. Alex Maltman

Alex Maltman is Emeritus Professor of Earth Sciences at Aberystwyth University, in Wales, U.K. Alongside a decorated career in university teaching and research, Alex has for fifty years grown vines and made wine at his home. And through this, perhaps inevitably, he became interested in vineyard geology and its fashionable but poorly understood relationship with wine. This led to numerous publications in both the popular press and academic journals. Alex is the author of the acclaimed Vineyards, Rocks, and Soils: A Wine Lover's Guide to Geology and newly released Taste the Limestone, Smell the Slate. A Geologist Wanders Through the World of Wine.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/357.

Why is geology essential for vineyard management but overrated when it comes to wine taste? Do soils get too much credit for wine flavour, when invisible factors might be the real drivers? What does "minerality" in wine really mean? Rock, nutrient, or just taste perception?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Alex Maltman, author of the terrific new book, Taste the Limestone, Smell the Slate. A Geologist Wanders Through the World of Wine.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of Alex Maltman's terrific book, Taste the Limestone, Smell the Slate. A Geologist Wanders Through the World of Wine. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

How did a good teacher spark Alex's lifelong fascination with geology?

What initially attracted Alex to wine and how did his curiosity evolve over the past 50 years?

How did Alex's background in geology support his career as a wine writer?

In what ways does Alex's first book, Vineyards, Rocks and Soils, differ from his new book, Taste the Limestone, Smell the Slate?

Why does Alex believe that the influence of geology on wine is overstated in contrast to its influence on beer?

What impact did geology have on how beer first developed?

How do geological minerals, nutrient minerals, and the taste perception of minerality differ?

What is the relevance of geological age to the growing vine in the bedrock?

Does knowing the soil type of the vineyard tell us anything about the wine's characteristics?

Why do so many wine drinkers and writers love to talk about geology?

How has the concept of terroir been misunderstood and oversimplified?

Why is it important to distinguish between the importance of geology for vineyard management versus its influence on the taste of wine in the glass?

Key Takeaways

Am I tasting the limestone, smelling the slate? No, you can't. The grower needs to know about his soil. The geology will influence so many things in the vineyard, so the grower may well want to dig soil pits and see what the roots are doing to inform his vineyard management. But this is not the same thing as the flavor that develops in fermentation through to our wine glass.

People look at, say, a hill slope with vines on it, and year after year, the wines from here always taste different to the wines from there. What's different? Oh, it's the soil. But at the same time, there's a whole host of invisible factors operating on that hill slope that we know these factors influence how grapes ripen and how the flavor precursors in the grape develop, which are going to go on to in the fermentation make the wine taste like it does.

I tend to use the word geological mineral for those compounds that are making half of the vineyard soil and that come together to make rocks. And nutrient mineral, which are single elements, which we need, as well as vines, in order to function. And this word minerality, that's a taste perception. I don't know what it means or what causes it, but that's a different third meaning of the word mineral.

About Dr. Alex Maltman

Alex Maltman is Emeritus Professor of Earth Sciences at Aberystwyth University, in Wales, U.K. Alongside a decorated career in university teaching and research, Alex has for fifty years grown vines and made wine at his home. And through this, perhaps inevitably, he became interested in vineyard geology and its fashionable but poorly understood relationship with wine. This led to numerous publications in both the popular press and academic journals. Alex is the author of the acclaimed Vineyards, Rocks, and Soils: A Wine Lover's Guide to Geology and newly released Taste the Limestone, Smell the Slate. A Geologist Wanders Through the World of Wine.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/356.