Why can’t we smell sweetness in sparkling wine? How much of what we “taste” in wine is influenced by its appearance and our expectations? What makes copper both a savior and a threat to viticulture?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Sunny Hodge, author of the terrific new book, The Cynic's Guide to Wine.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of Sunny Hodge’s terrific new book, The Cynic's Guide to Wine. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

Why is it important to look beyond wine characteristics and consider?

How does The Cynic's Guide to Wine aim to challenge the way we talk about wine?

Can fossilized oysters in vineyard soil really impart marine characteristics on the wine?

Why should food and wine lovers know the story of Fitz Haber?

What makes copper both a savior and a threat to viticulture?

Why should we move away from the focus on wine flavours and instead use descriptors of what it truly offers?

Where does the buttery flavour in wine come from?

How does cork taint affect wine as well as our sense of smell and perception?

Why do vines grown in cooler temperatures have more black pepper notes?

How much of what we “taste” in wine is influenced by its appearance and our expectations?

Why can’t we smell sweetness in wine?

Could sniffing slower change which aromas you detect in a wine?

Why are humans more sensitive to bitter tastes versus sweet?

How does adding ice to whiskey open up its aromas?

Key Takeaways

The little CO₂ bubbles in sparkling wine dissolve in your saliva and form a physical barrier between certain molecules hitting your tongue and your ability to taste certain things. Sweetness, is the first thing that’ll get blocked out. So, if you have a sparkling wine that has some sweetness, as your saliva builds up with bubbles, you won’t perceive it.

We in wine extrapolate a little bit and think, “It's a white wine,” so I may psychosomatically associate it with white peppery things, rather than a red wine, which might be black pepper. It’s actually the same sesquiterpene, called rotundone. We just trick ourselves into perceiving it one way rather than the other. This happens a lot in wine.

Copper is naturally antimicrobial and antifungal, which is why we use it in plumbing, hospitals, and as touchpads on doors. Fungal pests like downy and powdery mildew, which affect vines. We spray vines with copper base concoctions to prevent that fungus building up, which will destroy our harvests. But it's not just the heavy metal, but it when it rains, it'll hit your soils and affect earthworms and all of the things that we know to be really good for the soils, naturally. We stop our soil's ability to just look after itself. We haven't found a unified way to overcome downy and powdery mildew without the use of copper.

About Sunny Hodge

Sunny Hodge is the sole founder of Diogenes the Dog and aspen & meursault; two multi award-winning wine bars associated with challenging the status quo of wine. He is in the process of developing a wine qualification, The Science of Wine Course.

His book “The Cynic’s Guide to Wine” delves into the science behind wine from soil upwards into our perception of taste and flavour to dispel wine myths using science. He is also a member of the Circle of Wine Writers.

He is an International wine judge for IWSC awards, was recently shortlisted for the LWF Buyers Awards 2025 for both ‘On-Trade Multiple Venue Wine Buyer’ and ‘Sustainable Wine Buyer of the Year’.

Hodge is also a commentator and wine writer for the likes of Waitrose Food Magazine, Evening Standard, The Times, The Guardian, Food FM and Monocle Radio and ITV’s Love Your Weekend.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/351.

Can you really taste “minerality” in wine? What gives Champagne and traditional method wines their signature bready flavor and creamy texture? How has natural wine sparked deeper conversations about how we farm and produce food and drink?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Sunny Hodge

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of Sunny Hodge’s terrific new book, The Cynic's Guide to Wine. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

What is the deeper meaning behind the name of Sunny’s London wine bar, aspen & meursault?

How did Sunny’s early love of rollerskating shape his experiences growing up?

What lessons did Sunny’s mother impart that still impact his worldview today?

How did Sunny’s engineering background influence his approach to learning about wine?

Can we really smell metals and minerals?

Why was Sunny skeptical about the influence of soil on wine?

What surprised Sunny about our technical insights into wine?

How did Sunny find the balance between sharing the complex science behind wine and making it interesting to the average wine lover?

Why does Sunny believe we should be applying cynicism to the world of wine?

How do natural wines cause us to challenge the food and drink we bring to the table?

What does "funky" mean in the context of natural wines?

How does Sunny source unusual wines for his wine bars?

What is humus, and how does it influence wine character?

How do plants absorb nutrients from soil?

Key Takeaways

We can smell some geological materials like salt and some minerals, but most minerals and metals we're unable to smell and taste. And those metals that we feel that we can smell and taste, that's actually a tertiary influence of our oils reacting with those metals.Technically, metal and most other minerals except for salt, don't have smell or taste.

Yeast autolysis is the process that gives champagnes and traditional method wines their bready, yeasty, autolytic flavor. Autolysis is when a yeast thinks it's gonna die and it's pretty stressed. So as alcohol levels pick up, and your yeast knows it's going to pass away soon, its enzymes will switch on to a different mode, and this is autolysis mode. They'll start eating away at the cell membrane of the yeast, and eventually they'll make little puncture holes, and all of the insides of the yeast will end up in the liquid. So that self-detonation of yeast in stressful environments is what gives the physical texture to your wine. That's why autolytic wines have that texture and it gives you those yeasty, bready flavors.

Natural wine makes us question how we farm and how we produce all food and drink, not just wine. Wine is one that we can talk about and have a real discourse without it getting too boring. And with natural wine, those bigger topics are, how do we farm? What are the pros and cons of how we farm now, and how are we making our food and drink?

About Sunny Hodge

Sunny Hodge is the sole founder of Diogenes the Dog and aspen & meursault; two multi award-winning wine bars associated with challenging the status quo of wine. He is in the process of developing a wine qualification, The Science of Wine Course.

His book “The Cynic’s Guide to Wine” delves into the science behind wine from soil upwards into our perception of taste and flavour to dispel wine myths using science. He is also a member of the Circle of Wine Writers.

He is an International wine judge for IWSC awards, was recently shortlisted for the LWF Buyers Awards 2025 for both ‘On-Trade Multiple Venue Wine Buyer’ and ‘Sustainable Wine Buyer of the Year’.

Hodge is also a commentator and wine writer for the likes of Waitrose Food Magazine, Evening Standard, The Times, The Guardian, Food FM and Monocle Radio and ITV’s Love Your Weekend.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/350.

How does your perspective change when you start looking at life one vintage at a time, divided into seasons? What does it look like when wine is so deeply connected to a region that it shapes work, landscape, community, and what a culture values most? Why is Languedoc becoming a popular choice for organic, biodynamic, and natural winemaking? What makes a “bon moment” and why is it worth taking seriously?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Steve Hoffman, who has written an award-winning memoir called A Season for That: Lost and Found in the Other Southern France.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of Steve Hoffman's terrific new book, A Season for That: Lost and Found in the Other Southern France. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

What was Steve’s favourite aperitif discovery in France?

How did a funny mispronunciation lead to an embarrassing introduction?

How did stuffed cuttlefish challenge Steve’s ideas about strong flavours and aromas in food?

How does the historical connection between wine and work show up in French culture today?

Why has the Languedoc remained in the shadow of Bordeaux and Burgundy, despite having the largest vineyard area in the world?

What surprised Steve the most about the process of blending wine?

Why does the latitude of a vineyard matter when learning about tasting wine?

How can you have the best experience while visiting the Languedoc?

Key Takeaways

How does your perspective change when you start looking at life one vintage at a time, divided into seasons?

You start thinking about the unfolding year as not months and days, but as seasons, and you look forward to the next season. And you participate fully, and then you let that season be done, and don't mourn it, because you know it's going to come around again. It forces you to be present in the moment, because it's not like, if I just wait long enough, things are going to get better.

What does it look like when wine is so deeply connected to a region that it shapes work, landscape, community, and what a culture values most?

In wine country, wine is not just a pleasant accompaniment to life; it literally forms everything. The vines themselves actually form the landscape and just becomes a part of everything. It's work, it's what creates revenue that the village can survive, but then it's also something that you have with almost every meal.

Why is Languedoc becoming a popular choice for organic, biodynamic, and natural winemaking?

It's still an affordable place to buy a hectare of vines, and so young winemakers can come in and they can afford to experiment with organic, natural or biodynamic winemaking. A lot of the chemicals to avoid spoilage - the Languedoc naturally doesn't have much of that.

What makes a “bon moment” and why is it worth taking seriously?

It's translated as a good moment, but in France, it has all kinds of other connotations. I think everybody who's listening will recognize one of those moments where you're sitting with people that you care about, where there's good wine and there's good food. That’s the centerpiece, that's the excuse to be together. But then the moment unfolds into something greater than itself.

About Steve Hoffman

Steve Hoffman is a Minnesota tax preparer and food writer. His writing has won multiple national awards, including the 2019 James Beard M.F.K. Fisher Distinguished Writing Award. He has been published in Food & Wine, The Washington Post, and The Minneapolis Star Tribune, among other publications. He shares one acre on Turtle Lake, in Shoreview, Minnesota, with his wife, Mary Jo, their elderly and entitled puggle, and roughly 80,000 honeybees.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/349.

How can you create a life you don’t need a vacation from? What can we learn from the French about slowing down, savoring meals, and making conversation the heart of gatherings? What’s it like living in the “other southern France”?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Steve Hoffman, who has written an award-winning memoir called A Season for That: Lost and Found in the Other Southern France.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of Steve Hoffman's terrific new book, A Season for That: Lost and Found in the Other Southern France. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

What do tax preparation and writing have in common?

What inspired Steve to write about the Languedoc, which he refers to as the other Southern France?

What were the major hurdles to getting A Season for That published?

How did Steve shift from an article to a book mindset?

What helped Steve find the balance between writing beautifully and the need to move the story forward?

What important lessons did Steve learn from his editor, respected cookbook author Francis Lam?

What was it like to move across the world with two young children?

Are there insights about French parenting and family life that Steve continues to apply?

How did Steve choose the specific village he wanted to live in?

How do vulnerability and curiosity help with cultural immersion?

Key Takeaways

Steve says that we’re often sold the idea that our lives are boring and that we need relief from our lives. He believes in leading a life that doesn't require evacuation. That your life itself, if you are careful about it and a little bit intentional about it, can be the thing that you want to dive into every day.

Steve mentions Thanksgiving as one of the very few occasions where he and his family commit to slowing down and making conversation around the table, and a great meal. There was something about the French willingness to let conversation be the point and a way of passing time that was really refreshing.

Steve settled in 2012 as a family for an extended fall semester in the Languedoc region, which he refers to as the other southern France, because it is, to some extent, the poor cousin of what most people think of as southern France, primarily Provence and the Côte d'Azur, the Riviera, which was extensively touristed and a lot of money got brought into that region. Peter Mayle, Princess Grace, and F. Scott Fitzgerald made it a wealthy playground. Languedoc is the portion of Mediterranean France to the west of the Rhone. So the Rhone divides the country in two, east of the Rhone is Provence, and the Riviera west of the Rhone is Languedoc and eventually Roussillon. He had the kinds of experiences he had because they weren't in the grips of a tourist haven.

About Steve Hoffman

Steve Hoffman is a Minnesota tax preparer and food writer. His writing has won multiple national awards, including the 2019 James Beard M.F.K. Fisher Distinguished Writing Award. He has been published in Food & Wine, The Washington Post, and The Minneapolis Star Tribune, among other publications. He shares one acre on Turtle Lake, in Shoreview, Minnesota, with his wife, Mary Jo, their elderly and entitled puggle, and roughly 80,000 honeybees.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/348.

How does music, even types you dislike, make wine more enjoyable? Can curated playlists in tasting rooms and wine bars influence how customers drink, eat, and experience wine? What happens when you stop overthinking wine and music and just enjoy?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Susan Lin, a Master of Wine and a Master of Fine Arts in Classical Piano and Musicology.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Highlights

How does a low-pitched, slow-tempo musical piece impact the perceived fruitiness of wine?

What does "timbre" mean in musical terms?

How do different musical characteristics influence the perception of wine's effervescence?

Did the participants’ music preferences correlate with their enjoyment of the wine?

What might surprise you about how the wines tasted in silence compared?

Why does the influence of sound on our perception tend to go unnoticed?

How are some winemakers using music in their wineries?

Are there retail applications for Susan’s research into the influence of music on the perception of wine?

What would be Susan's ideal live concert and wine pairing scenario?

What are some of the possibilities in the future for AI-generated music for wine experiences?

Is there an interest in similar research on the intersection between dance and wine perception?

What future research areas is Susan considering in terms of music and wine perception?

What three objects would Susan display in a museum representing her life and passions?

If Susan could share a wine with anyone outside the wine industry, who would it be and why?

How can you start being more intentional about exploring sensory experiences with wine and music?

Key Takeaways

How does music, even types you dislike, make wine more enjoyable?

Susan says that in her experiments, the wine that was consistently the worst, least balanced, was the wine tasted without music. Even if somebody said I really didn't like this music, it was a way better wine to them than without music. Even for the wine experts, the wines were much more palatable without music. I think that's why sound can be a very, very powerful thing.

Can curated playlists in tasting rooms and wine bars influence how customers drink, eat, and experience wine?

Susan has worked with tasting rooms and wine bars to curate their playlists in terms of the experiences that they want their customers to have. You want to have people be a little more relaxed in the morning, but then, you start amping it up for the evening. I put together a complete journey, that sort of sonic seasoning for different expressions of their wines, for big bold red versus for their light, youthful white wines.

What happens when you stop overthinking wine and music and just enjoy?

Susan says that with the melding of music and wine, there's still so much to learn. Keep trying things. Don't worry about whether it's right or wrong. Just enjoy the experience. Let everything come in sensorially and enjoy that and embrace again the mystery of things. We can't explain everything through data, and that's a good thing.

About Susan R. Lin

Susan R. Lin is a Master of Wine and a Master of Fine Arts in Classical Piano and Musicology. Susan’s MW research paper ‘Influences of Classical Music on the Sensory Perception of a Brut Non-Vintage Champagne’ and subsequent work on the interaction of music and wine have been featured in Decanter, Food & Wine, GuildSomm, and others. Each of Susan’s creations is rooted in academic research and inspired by a deep respect for the essence of wine and music.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/347.

Why might a symphony night pair just as well with your wine as a heavy metal ballad? What is “sonic seasoning” and how can music impact the way we experience the taste of wine? How are sensory experiences like music, taste, and atmosphere all connected?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Susan Lin, a Master of Wine and a Master of Fine Arts in Classical Piano and Musicology.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Highlights

What did Susan's grandfather teach her about fine beverages and hospitality?

How did playing piano in hotels as a child shape Susan's perspective on the holistic nature of our sensory experiences?

Is there a connection between Susan's backgrounds in tech, music, and wine?

When did Susan decide she wanted to dive deeper into the intersection between music and wine?

What makes a wine "musical"?

How do cross-modal correspondences impact wine tasting?

Why was Brut Non-Vintage Champagne Susan’s choice for her research paper?

What is "sonic seasoning" in the context of wine and music?

What was Susan's most memorable wine and music pairing event?

What might surprise you about the intersection between classical music and heavy metal?

How did Susan set up her experiment to observe how music affected participants' perceptions of the wine they were tasting?

Key Takeaways

Susan says she was always encouraging a Bach goth night at the symphony to bring people together. I like to say, whether my Brahms is your Metallica or vice versa, music can make such a difference in what you're feeling. Hence, if you got a glass of wine, what you're tasting in that glass, right? I've actually done a few experiments with heavy metal. People feel a lot of things, and there are ballads in metal. It's not just your typical really assertive sound all the time. It can be really soulful too and I noticed a lot of use of medieval melodies and folk songs in the ballads that are really nice. So not too far of a distance between Brahms and Metallica in that sense.

Susan explains that if you're listening to something that might add a little bit of pizzazz here or there to your wine, like seasoning can do. It's more of a fun term, not a scientific term. All classical composers experienced all the emotions and all the feelings that we all do and it comes through in their music. Maybe they can be feeling joyful or melancholy or longing or frustrated or upset, and everything in between. So the nature of the seasoning is that it can run in many, many different ways.

Susan observed during her performances how moods of the guests changed depending on what she played. Everything in the sensory world, all of our experiences, are really taken in holistically, right? It's not like, oh, we're just listening to this one thing and that's isolated. Oh, and we're tasting this one thing, we're smelling this one thing, and we're seeing something. It's all together. I knew that it was something special, and knew that it was something that I wanted to learn more about, or just somehow be a part of. And playing the piano in those situations actually was a great way for me to be a part of it.

About Susan R. Lin

Susan R. Lin is a Master of Wine and a Master of Fine Arts in Classical Piano and Musicology. Susan’s MW research paper ‘Influences of Classical Music on the Sensory Perception of a Brut Non-Vintage Champagne’ and subsequent work on the interaction of music and wine have been featured in Decanter, Food & Wine, GuildSomm, and others. Each of Susan’s creations is rooted in academic research and inspired by a deep respect for the essence of wine and music.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/346.

What turns a wine country visit into an incredibly memorable experience? What are the hidden perks of off-peak wine travel? How has digital media transformed the way people plan wine travel?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Amy Wislocki, editor-in-chief of Decanter, the world’s most prestigious wine magazine.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, The Ultimate Wine Lover's Travel Guide. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast.  I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me.

Highlights

What don’t many wine lovers realize about the wine-making history of the country of Georgia?

How important is authentic cultural immersion to wine travel?

Can wine tourism help preserve cultural heritage in regions recovering from political strife?

What’s the association between wineries and wildlife?

How and why are many wineries now catering to families?

What was Amy’s approach to balancing practical with sharing the romance of the locations in The Ultimate Wine Lover's Travel Guide?

What would Amy include in her perfect wine day itinerary?

How has COVID-19 impacted wine travel?

What are the advantages of travelling to wine regions outside of the peak seasons?

Is environmental consciousness changing wine tourism?

How has digital media transformed wine travel writing?

Has the rise of influencers changed the wine industry?

What would Amy add to a new edition of the book?

What should you be asking about wine travel?

How does Amy want readers to feel after reading The Ultimate Wine Lover's Travel Guide?

Which famous figures would Amy want to be able to share a bottle of wine with?

Key Takeaways

What turns a wine country visit into an incredibly memorable experience?

Amy advises to mix it up a bit and not cram too much into the day, because then that becomes too stressful. Probably a bit of planning will help to make it a perfect day. Often you need to book in advance. So maybe just two winery visits, one in the morning, one in the afternoon. Go somewhere for lunch where you can sit outside and just enjoy the beautiful views, get some fresh air. You might be able to hire a bicycle or go for a hike around the vineyards. See a beautiful village that has some nice culture, or architectural churches.

What are the hidden perks of off-peak wine travel?

Amy says the main thing is that the winemaker might have more time to spend with you. There must be certain times of the year that are really busy, not only in terms of tourists, but in terms of the winemaking. Also you have a higher chance of just being able to get into some of the most sought-after wineries. There might be some wineries that are just fully booked for ages.

How has digital media transformed the way people plan wine travel?

Amy observes that on social media, you can watch videos and reels of place which inspires people to do more research. So they might be sparked off by something they see on TikTok or Facebook or Instagram, and then they might go to Decanter.com, and read the whole article. So it’s all complementary.

About Amy Wislocki

Amy has more than 30 years' experience in publishing, and worked at a senior level for leading companies in the consumer, business-to-business and contract publishing arenas, before joining Decanter in October 2000 as Magazine Editor. As well as overseeing content planning and production for the print offering, she has also been involved in developing digital channels, Decanter.com and Decanter Premium.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/345.

Why does wine taste different when you’ve stood in the vineyard it came from? What's one myth about wine travel that Amy dispels? With Gen Z drinking less wine, how does a 50-year-old wine magazine stay relevant without alienating longtime readers?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Amy Wislocki, editor-in-chief of Decanter, the world’s most prestigious wine magazine.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, The Ultimate Wine Lover's Travel Guide. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me.

Highlights

What was it like to join Decanter magazine as a 27-year-old magazine editor?

How did Amy establish her credibility as a young editor?

What exciting incident marked one of her press trips to Chile?

Which aspects of wine writing are often misunderstood or undervalued?

How does Decanter balance engaging Gen Z readers without alienating their long-term readers?

Why has Decanter started reviewing low-alcohol wines?

What’s made Amy stay at Decanter for 25 years>

What's one myth about wine travel that Amy hopes this book dispels?

Why is the experience of tasting wine at the vineyard where it’s made so powerful?

What are some of Amy’s favourite essays in

Why did Amy include South Carolina, which has no vineyards, in her wine travel book?

Key Takeaways

As Amy observes, anybody who's visited a vineyard will understand that there's no substitute. You will have a different relationship with that wine for the rest of your life. The lucky thing is that wine growing areas are often the most beautiful areas of the world. You can see what type of soil it is like. The climate might be very near to the ocean, with the cooling breezes. So that side of it will really give you a better understanding of why that wine tastes like it does. You see the age of the vines. Also meeting the people behind the wine. It could be a small, family-owned winery, hearing the stories associated with the wine. Drinking them with the food of the place and in that environment, it's an irreplaceable experience.

Amy says the main thing is that it has to be an elitist thing, because I suppose wine in general has the elitist kind of associations. And I think it's just getting across that, you don't have to have tons of money and only drink the world's finest wines to enjoy wine travel. It's just becoming much more accessible to everyone, and in so many more regions and countries than it was.

Amy explains that it's many things: recognizing moderation as a trend. It's a tricky one to get right, and you don't want to be preaching to people. You don't want people who think I'm buying a wine magazine because I love wine. I don't want to be made to feel guilty for drinking wine. This is my refuge. But it's not about that. It's about recognizing a trend that even among wine lovers, people are trying to kind of think about how and when and where, where they're drinking, how much they're drinking. Obviously, there are some things that Gen Z will want to read about that our more traditional conservative readers might not all be so bothered about, like natural wines. It's all a balance, isn't it? And trying to give something to everybody.

About Amy Wislocki

Amy has more than 30 years' experience in publishing, and worked at a senior level for leading companies in the consumer, business-to-business and contract publishing arenas, before joining Decanter in October 2000 as Magazine Editor. As well as overseeing content planning and production for the print offering, she has also been involved in developing digital channels, Decanter.com and Decanter Premium.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/344.

What makes old Malbec vines planted in the 1920s so rare and valuable today? Why would a Canadian winemaker head to Mendoza, Argentina, to start a winery? What’s one of the biggest challenges holding back Canadian wine and how can consumers change that?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Ann Sperling & Peter Gamble.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Highlights

What makes Devotion different from other On Seven wines?

What inspired Peter to look beyond Canada to Argentina for winemaking?

How did he decide on the particular vineyard to purchase?

What is massal selection in viticulture?

How did Versado end up with such old vines, and how does this show up in the wine?

Are there aspects of Malbec that are similar to Pinot?

How have Ann and Peter revitalized the Leily Winery?

What are the differences and similarities between Leily and On Seven Chardonnays?

What would Ann and Peter like their legacies to be in the Canadian wine industry?

What are the greatest threats to the Canadian wine industry?

Which three figures in the wine industry would Peter invite to a dream dinner party?

Key Takeaways

In the 1905 to 1925 period in Argentina, winemakers at the time planted the greatest genetic diversity amongst the Malbec vines, because they were still learning about it. Their Versado vineyard reflects that time when genetic diversity was appreciated.

We visited a lot of wine regions in the world for the meetings, both fun and a necessity, and one of them was Mendoza and loved the climate - a really interesting climate from the point of view of creating flavors and grapes, and really liked the lifestyle as well. We essentially decided it'd be interesting to do something small there that also gives us a second harvest during New Year's. So we can practice twice as often. That was the driver, the potential quality there.

They’ve been talking about this for probably the 40 years that they've been making wine and and they want to figure out how to have lasting consumer engagement. They have a lot of devoted buyers, but they also know kind of the monopoly culture is that, well, if the wine you were looking for today isn't on the shelf, you can buy something else. Promoting the message of buying directly from the wineries, and if you want to try that wine that's made in Nova Scotia or BC, that you actually can order it and have it shipped to your home province. Those interprovincial trade barriers aren't real. There's lots of wine shipping that's taking place already. Just get on your computer like you do with so many other products that you buy and buy online.

About Ann Sperling & Peter Gamble

Often referred to as the “power couple” of the Canadian wine industry, Peter Gamble and Ann Sperling have long pursued the pinnacles of wine quality in Canadian vineyards and wineries. Following her upbringing on her family’s Okanagan Valley vineyard, Ann turned to the soil for the character and complexity of her wines. Acknowledged as a Canadian pioneer of organic and biodynamic viticulture, ‘terroir’ was at the centre of her philosophy and she is renowned for her head winemaking roles at Malivoire, Southbrook, and Sperling Vineyards. Peter, a lifetime wine industry professional, has worked alongside Canada’s most passionate winemakers to achieve greater heights with our finest appellation wines. Since 2000, Peter has provided expertise in ultra-premium winemaking operations, including: Stratus, Ravine, Benjamin Bridge and Lightfoot & Wolfville. With the purchase of a top-flight ancient Malbec planting in Mendoza, Argentina, in 2008, Ann and Peter broadened their winemaking activities, but Niagara remains their cherished home base. Current focus is on these Niagara projects: On Seven, Lailey and Stonebridge Vineyards and Dobbin Estate.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/343.

What were the key challenges and breakthroughs that shaped the BC and Ontario wine industries in the 1980s and 90s? What makes or breaks a new wine project, and why is finding the right vineyard often the most time-consuming step? What made Peter believe that Niagara-on-the-Lake could produce exceptional Chardonnay?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Ann Sperling & Peter Gamble.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Highlights

What was Ann’s best memory from growing up on the farm?

When did Ann and Peter know that they wanted to work in the wine industry?

How did Ann and Peter meet?

What was the first bottle of wine Ann and Peter shared?

How do Ann and Peter navigate their interwoven personal and professional lives?

How do they negotiate professional disagreements, and who chooses the wine for dinner?

What were the major challenges and opportunities in the BC and Ontario wine industry in the 1980s and 90s?

In the early days, how did Peter envision the future of Ontario wines?

What are some of the reasons certain vintages almost didn't make it into the bottle?

What do you look for when considering a new project?

What makes Ann and Peter different from the stereotypical flying winemakers?

What were the signs that Niagara-on-the-Lake could produce exceptional Chardonnay?

How has working on a small, focused vineyard impacted Ann and Peter’s winemaking choices?

Why must you suffer to make top-notch wines?

Key Takeaways

It was in the early 80s in BC and maybe slightly before that in Ontario, that estate wineries became a thing. Prior to that, that meant there were a few really large wineries, not really making estate or single vineyards. Vineyards were a source of bulk wine for the most part.

The hunt for the vineyard became a very important one. We looked at over 230 vineyards before we found one. I think everyone there was on the verge of giving up on this, thinking “Well, they're not really going to buy anything.” Because we'd get it to a certain stage, then we do soil analysis, and we weren't quite happy, or we talked to people who had made wine from the vineyard or something would come up, and we just wouldn't quite be where we wanted to be with the quality of the vineyard.

I often work on the basis of paradigms, where I'll take a look at a wine sold throughout the world and say, you know, I think this could be done really well in this area. You know what it is you might be able to accomplish within the parameters that you have - the obvious things, the terroir, the exposures to soils, the temperatures in general.

About Ann Sperling & Peter Gamble

Often referred to as the “power couple” of the Canadian wine industry, Peter Gamble and Ann Sperling have long pursued the pinnacles of wine quality in Canadian vineyards and wineries. Following her upbringing on her family’s Okanagan Valley vineyard, Ann turned to the soil for the character and complexity of her wines. Acknowledged as a Canadian pioneer of organic and biodynamic viticulture, ‘terroir’ was at the centre of her philosophy and she is renowned for her head winemaking roles at Malivoire, Southbrook, and Sperling Vineyards. Peter, a lifetime wine industry professional, has worked alongside Canada’s most passionate winemakers to achieve greater heights with our finest appellation wines. Since 2000, Peter has provided expertise in ultra-premium winemaking operations, including: Stratus, Ravine, Benjamin Bridge and Lightfoot & Wolfville. With the purchase of a top-flight ancient Malbec planting in Mendoza, Argentina, in 2008, Ann and Peter broadened their winemaking activities, but Niagara remains their cherished home base. Current focus is on these Niagara projects: On Seven, Lailey and Stonebridge Vineyards and Dobbin Estate.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/342.