What turns a wine country visit into an incredibly memorable experience? What are the hidden perks of off-peak wine travel? How has digital media transformed the way people plan wine travel?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Amy Wislocki, editor-in-chief of Decanter, the world’s most prestigious wine magazine.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, The Ultimate Wine Lover's Travel Guide. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast.  I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me.

Highlights

What don’t many wine lovers realize about the wine-making history of the country of Georgia?

How important is authentic cultural immersion to wine travel?

Can wine tourism help preserve cultural heritage in regions recovering from political strife?

What’s the association between wineries and wildlife?

How and why are many wineries now catering to families?

What was Amy’s approach to balancing practical with sharing the romance of the locations in The Ultimate Wine Lover's Travel Guide?

What would Amy include in her perfect wine day itinerary?

How has COVID-19 impacted wine travel?

What are the advantages of travelling to wine regions outside of the peak seasons?

Is environmental consciousness changing wine tourism?

How has digital media transformed wine travel writing?

Has the rise of influencers changed the wine industry?

What would Amy add to a new edition of the book?

What should you be asking about wine travel?

How does Amy want readers to feel after reading The Ultimate Wine Lover's Travel Guide?

Which famous figures would Amy want to be able to share a bottle of wine with?

Key Takeaways

What turns a wine country visit into an incredibly memorable experience?

Amy advises to mix it up a bit and not cram too much into the day, because then that becomes too stressful. Probably a bit of planning will help to make it a perfect day. Often you need to book in advance. So maybe just two winery visits, one in the morning, one in the afternoon. Go somewhere for lunch where you can sit outside and just enjoy the beautiful views, get some fresh air. You might be able to hire a bicycle or go for a hike around the vineyards. See a beautiful village that has some nice culture, or architectural churches.

What are the hidden perks of off-peak wine travel?

Amy says the main thing is that the winemaker might have more time to spend with you. There must be certain times of the year that are really busy, not only in terms of tourists, but in terms of the winemaking. Also you have a higher chance of just being able to get into some of the most sought-after wineries. There might be some wineries that are just fully booked for ages.

How has digital media transformed the way people plan wine travel?

Amy observes that on social media, you can watch videos and reels of place which inspires people to do more research. So they might be sparked off by something they see on TikTok or Facebook or Instagram, and then they might go to Decanter.com, and read the whole article. So it’s all complementary.

About Amy Wislocki

Amy has more than 30 years' experience in publishing, and worked at a senior level for leading companies in the consumer, business-to-business and contract publishing arenas, before joining Decanter in October 2000 as Magazine Editor. As well as overseeing content planning and production for the print offering, she has also been involved in developing digital channels, Decanter.com and Decanter Premium.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/345.

Why does wine taste different when you’ve stood in the vineyard it came from? What's one myth about wine travel that Amy dispels? With Gen Z drinking less wine, how does a 50-year-old wine magazine stay relevant without alienating longtime readers?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Amy Wislocki, editor-in-chief of Decanter, the world’s most prestigious wine magazine.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, The Ultimate Wine Lover's Travel Guide. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me.

Highlights

What was it like to join Decanter magazine as a 27-year-old magazine editor?

How did Amy establish her credibility as a young editor?

What exciting incident marked one of her press trips to Chile?

Which aspects of wine writing are often misunderstood or undervalued?

How does Decanter balance engaging Gen Z readers without alienating their long-term readers?

Why has Decanter started reviewing low-alcohol wines?

What’s made Amy stay at Decanter for 25 years>

What's one myth about wine travel that Amy hopes this book dispels?

Why is the experience of tasting wine at the vineyard where it’s made so powerful?

What are some of Amy’s favourite essays in

Why did Amy include South Carolina, which has no vineyards, in her wine travel book?

Key Takeaways

As Amy observes, anybody who's visited a vineyard will understand that there's no substitute. You will have a different relationship with that wine for the rest of your life. The lucky thing is that wine growing areas are often the most beautiful areas of the world. You can see what type of soil it is like. The climate might be very near to the ocean, with the cooling breezes. So that side of it will really give you a better understanding of why that wine tastes like it does. You see the age of the vines. Also meeting the people behind the wine. It could be a small, family-owned winery, hearing the stories associated with the wine. Drinking them with the food of the place and in that environment, it's an irreplaceable experience.

Amy says the main thing is that it has to be an elitist thing, because I suppose wine in general has the elitist kind of associations. And I think it's just getting across that, you don't have to have tons of money and only drink the world's finest wines to enjoy wine travel. It's just becoming much more accessible to everyone, and in so many more regions and countries than it was.

Amy explains that it's many things: recognizing moderation as a trend. It's a tricky one to get right, and you don't want to be preaching to people. You don't want people who think I'm buying a wine magazine because I love wine. I don't want to be made to feel guilty for drinking wine. This is my refuge. But it's not about that. It's about recognizing a trend that even among wine lovers, people are trying to kind of think about how and when and where, where they're drinking, how much they're drinking. Obviously, there are some things that Gen Z will want to read about that our more traditional conservative readers might not all be so bothered about, like natural wines. It's all a balance, isn't it? And trying to give something to everybody.

About Amy Wislocki

Amy has more than 30 years' experience in publishing, and worked at a senior level for leading companies in the consumer, business-to-business and contract publishing arenas, before joining Decanter in October 2000 as Magazine Editor. As well as overseeing content planning and production for the print offering, she has also been involved in developing digital channels, Decanter.com and Decanter Premium.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/344.

What makes old Malbec vines planted in the 1920s so rare and valuable today? Why would a Canadian winemaker head to Mendoza, Argentina, to start a winery? What’s one of the biggest challenges holding back Canadian wine and how can consumers change that?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Ann Sperling & Peter Gamble.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Highlights

What makes Devotion different from other On Seven wines?

What inspired Peter to look beyond Canada to Argentina for winemaking?

How did he decide on the particular vineyard to purchase?

What is massal selection in viticulture?

How did Versado end up with such old vines, and how does this show up in the wine?

Are there aspects of Malbec that are similar to Pinot?

How have Ann and Peter revitalized the Leily Winery?

What are the differences and similarities between Leily and On Seven Chardonnays?

What would Ann and Peter like their legacies to be in the Canadian wine industry?

What are the greatest threats to the Canadian wine industry?

Which three figures in the wine industry would Peter invite to a dream dinner party?

Key Takeaways

In the 1905 to 1925 period in Argentina, winemakers at the time planted the greatest genetic diversity amongst the Malbec vines, because they were still learning about it. Their Versado vineyard reflects that time when genetic diversity was appreciated.

We visited a lot of wine regions in the world for the meetings, both fun and a necessity, and one of them was Mendoza and loved the climate - a really interesting climate from the point of view of creating flavors and grapes, and really liked the lifestyle as well. We essentially decided it'd be interesting to do something small there that also gives us a second harvest during New Year's. So we can practice twice as often. That was the driver, the potential quality there.

They’ve been talking about this for probably the 40 years that they've been making wine and and they want to figure out how to have lasting consumer engagement. They have a lot of devoted buyers, but they also know kind of the monopoly culture is that, well, if the wine you were looking for today isn't on the shelf, you can buy something else. Promoting the message of buying directly from the wineries, and if you want to try that wine that's made in Nova Scotia or BC, that you actually can order it and have it shipped to your home province. Those interprovincial trade barriers aren't real. There's lots of wine shipping that's taking place already. Just get on your computer like you do with so many other products that you buy and buy online.

About Ann Sperling & Peter Gamble

Often referred to as the “power couple” of the Canadian wine industry, Peter Gamble and Ann Sperling have long pursued the pinnacles of wine quality in Canadian vineyards and wineries. Following her upbringing on her family’s Okanagan Valley vineyard, Ann turned to the soil for the character and complexity of her wines. Acknowledged as a Canadian pioneer of organic and biodynamic viticulture, ‘terroir’ was at the centre of her philosophy and she is renowned for her head winemaking roles at Malivoire, Southbrook, and Sperling Vineyards. Peter, a lifetime wine industry professional, has worked alongside Canada’s most passionate winemakers to achieve greater heights with our finest appellation wines. Since 2000, Peter has provided expertise in ultra-premium winemaking operations, including: Stratus, Ravine, Benjamin Bridge and Lightfoot & Wolfville. With the purchase of a top-flight ancient Malbec planting in Mendoza, Argentina, in 2008, Ann and Peter broadened their winemaking activities, but Niagara remains their cherished home base. Current focus is on these Niagara projects: On Seven, Lailey and Stonebridge Vineyards and Dobbin Estate.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/343.

What were the key challenges and breakthroughs that shaped the BC and Ontario wine industries in the 1980s and 90s? What makes or breaks a new wine project, and why is finding the right vineyard often the most time-consuming step? What made Peter believe that Niagara-on-the-Lake could produce exceptional Chardonnay?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Ann Sperling & Peter Gamble.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Highlights

What was Ann’s best memory from growing up on the farm?

When did Ann and Peter know that they wanted to work in the wine industry?

How did Ann and Peter meet?

What was the first bottle of wine Ann and Peter shared?

How do Ann and Peter navigate their interwoven personal and professional lives?

How do they negotiate professional disagreements, and who chooses the wine for dinner?

What were the major challenges and opportunities in the BC and Ontario wine industry in the 1980s and 90s?

In the early days, how did Peter envision the future of Ontario wines?

What are some of the reasons certain vintages almost didn't make it into the bottle?

What do you look for when considering a new project?

What makes Ann and Peter different from the stereotypical flying winemakers?

What were the signs that Niagara-on-the-Lake could produce exceptional Chardonnay?

How has working on a small, focused vineyard impacted Ann and Peter’s winemaking choices?

Why must you suffer to make top-notch wines?

Key Takeaways

It was in the early 80s in BC and maybe slightly before that in Ontario, that estate wineries became a thing. Prior to that, that meant there were a few really large wineries, not really making estate or single vineyards. Vineyards were a source of bulk wine for the most part.

The hunt for the vineyard became a very important one. We looked at over 230 vineyards before we found one. I think everyone there was on the verge of giving up on this, thinking “Well, they're not really going to buy anything.” Because we'd get it to a certain stage, then we do soil analysis, and we weren't quite happy, or we talked to people who had made wine from the vineyard or something would come up, and we just wouldn't quite be where we wanted to be with the quality of the vineyard.

I often work on the basis of paradigms, where I'll take a look at a wine sold throughout the world and say, you know, I think this could be done really well in this area. You know what it is you might be able to accomplish within the parameters that you have - the obvious things, the terroir, the exposures to soils, the temperatures in general.

About Ann Sperling & Peter Gamble

Often referred to as the “power couple” of the Canadian wine industry, Peter Gamble and Ann Sperling have long pursued the pinnacles of wine quality in Canadian vineyards and wineries. Following her upbringing on her family’s Okanagan Valley vineyard, Ann turned to the soil for the character and complexity of her wines. Acknowledged as a Canadian pioneer of organic and biodynamic viticulture, ‘terroir’ was at the centre of her philosophy and she is renowned for her head winemaking roles at Malivoire, Southbrook, and Sperling Vineyards. Peter, a lifetime wine industry professional, has worked alongside Canada’s most passionate winemakers to achieve greater heights with our finest appellation wines. Since 2000, Peter has provided expertise in ultra-premium winemaking operations, including: Stratus, Ravine, Benjamin Bridge and Lightfoot & Wolfville. With the purchase of a top-flight ancient Malbec planting in Mendoza, Argentina, in 2008, Ann and Peter broadened their winemaking activities, but Niagara remains their cherished home base. Current focus is on these Niagara projects: On Seven, Lailey and Stonebridge Vineyards and Dobbin Estate.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/342.

Is a $400 wine really ten times better than a $40 one? Does the right glass really improve your wine and is it worth it when the size makes you look ridiculous? Why do wine labels matter and should the label’s look be part of every wine review?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Charles Jennings and Paul Keers, co-authors of the hilarious book I Bought It So I’ll Drink It.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of their terrific book,, I Bought It So I’ll Drink It. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

You can find the wines we discussed here.

Highlights

Why do we feel guilty about window shopping when it comes to wine?

What's the worst wine gadget or gimmick Paul and Charles have encountered?

How did a 1947 Sauterne create a bond between Paul and a French wine seller?

What was their most triumphant wine deal discovery?

Are there elements that expensive wine delivers, that bargain wines can't?

Why are Charles and Paul suspicious of mixed cases of wine?

Has the quality and perception of box wines changed?

What's the strangest vessel Paul and Charles have drunk wine from?

What was it like drinking wine at 10 Downing Street and Lambeth Palace?

What was Queen Victoria's tipple like?

Why does Charles love drinking on his own?

Which current wine trends will we look back on as ridiculous?

Which wines would Charles and Paul now pair with their favourite childhood foods?

Who would Paul and Charles love to share a bottle of wine with?

Why should wine critics write about wine labels in their reviews?

Key Takeaways

Charles and Paul believe there is a greater experience to be gained from drinking better wine, but that the return for your money plateaus quickly. If you go up from a £10 wine to a £30 wine, you will really notice the difference and have a tremendously greater experience. But then if you multiply that by 10 and go from £40 to £400, the difference in quality isn't that great.

If I've got people around for dinner and I sit at the end of the table and everybody else has got normal wine glasses, I look like a complete plonker. And I'd love to sit there, “Oh, it's magnificent.” And they're going to think, what an idiot. So unfortunately, it doesn't get much use. It does enhance the taste of the Bordeaux, there's no doubt about it, but I'm so embarrassed sitting there drinking out of this thing the size of a melon that it really doesn't get much use.

Charles and Paul mention wine labels because they think that they are ignored by most wine writers, and they're terribly important for two reasons. Firstly, because they're about the only marketing that most bottles of wine have, because we go into shops and that's all we can see, the labels. And second, if you're setting a table for dinner, you've invested in the table, in the dishware, the cutlery, the glasses to set up this beautiful thing. Why would you put a bottle of wine on the table - however it tastes - if it looks terrible? Wine critics should always say what the label looks like and whether it would look good on the table.

About Charles Jennings & Paul Keers

Charles Jennings and Paul Keers are award-winning writers based in London, England. Charles and Paul co-authored the wine blog Sediment, described by New Statesman writer and Guardian literary critic Nick Lezard as “the finest wine blog available to humanity.” The blog became the basis for their book, I Bought It So I’ll Drink It. Book-Prize-winning novelist Julian Barnes called it “The funniest wine-book I’ve read in a long time. Not just laugh-aloud funny but snortingly, choke-on-your-cornflakes funny – up there with Kingsley Amis and Jay McInerney.” Their book won the prestigious André Simon Award.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/341.

How does using everyday metaphors make wine writing more relatable? How has the pressure to be an expert in everything turned simple pleasures into social competition? Does buying your own wine versus getting free samples make you a better wine writer?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Charles Jennings and Paul Keers, co-authors of the hilarious book I Bought It So I’ll Drink It.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of their terrific book,, I Bought It So I’ll Drink It. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

You can find the wines we discussed here.

Highlights

How did Charles and Paul meet?

What was the first bottle of wine they shared, and how did they realize they had the same approach to bad wine?

What was it like to meet legendary wine critic Oz Clarke?

When did Paul and Charles discover their love for writing?

What were Charles and Paul's best and worst moments in their writing careers?

How did their Sediment blog create a stir with the PR people in the wine industry?

Where did the title “I Bought It So I’ll Drink It” come from?

Did buying their own wines give them a different perspective than other wine writers who are given promotional bottles?

How did the collaborative approach to writing I Bought It So I’ll Drink It work?

Which writers have influenced Charles and Paul’s writing?

Is the tension between wine snobbery and enjoyment unique to wine?

What was the most pretentious wine moment Paul and Charles witnessed?

How did Charles and Paul develop their distinctive vocabularies for describing wines?

Which overused wine descriptors do they find cringy?

What's changed about wine criticism or writing since they published their book?

Key Takeaways

Charles and Paul explain that they drew their descriptions from real life. There's a tendency in wine writing to use metaphors that you wouldn't necessarily experience. I mean, I've got a cat, but I really wouldn't use the term cat's pee in describing any wine. I don't know what cat's pee actually tastes like. Whereas if I talk about wine smelling of ink, well, people know what ink smells like, and it seemed more appropriate to use ink as an analogy.

The authors say that everybody has to be a bit of an expert about everything these days. It’s not just a question of, “Oh, we've been to France, we've gone to Italy, we've made it to the United States,” or something like that. It's how you did it, and where you stayed, and what you did, and what tours you went on, and it's so full of itself. Then it becomes a transaction when talking with friends.

As Charles and Paul think the fact that they did buy thei wine is quite fundamental to a difference between Sediment and other wine writing. They had to do the same thing, go out and buy it. Maybe that gave us a slightly different slant on wine buying and drinking as well.

About Charles Jennings & Paul Keers

Charles Jennings and Paul Keers are award-winning writers based in London, England. Charles and Paul co-authored the wine blog Sediment, described by New Statesman writer and Guardian literary critic Nick Lezard as “the finest wine blog available to humanity.” The blog became the basis for their book, I Bought It So I’ll Drink It. Book-Prize-winning novelist Julian Barnes called it “The funniest wine-book I’ve read in a long time. Not just laugh-aloud funny but snortingly, choke-on-your-cornflakes funny – up there with Kingsley Amis and Jay McInerney.” Their book won the prestigious André Simon Award.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/340.

How does biodynamic farming transform a vineyard into a thriving, interconnected ecosystem? What do wild orchids reveal about the health of a vineyard? How do France’s preschool lunches help to create a nation of gourmets?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Caro Feely, author of the terrific memoir Grape Expectations: A Family’s Vineyard Adventure in France.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, Grape Adventures. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

How did Caro’s daughter’s medical emergency shape her perspective on risk?

Why did Caro feel like a bad mom in the early years of the winery?

How has living in France influenced Caro’s approach to food and wine?

When did Caro realize the wine business was becoming financially viable?

What are some of the most interesting aspects of biodynamics?

What’s the significance of wild orchids in a vineyard?

Which wine would Caro pair with her favourite childhood food, marmalade on toast?

Why would Caro want to share a bottle of wine with Al Gore?

Key Takeaways

As Caro explains, often biodynamics is just picked on as a woo woo, but really, it's about listening to your land and being present. Biodynamics is organics, plus. It's essentially three things: It's working with plant and animal-based sprays to keep the vineyard healthy, using the biodynamic calendar to do things at the right moment. It's about listening to what's going on in the sky. We all notice the sun, but all the other bodies in the sky also have an impact. Lunatic comes from the fact that the moon does have an effect on us. The final thing is to think of your farm as a whole farm system as a living thing where everything is connected. We can't just look at the vine on its own, like a unit of production. It is a living thing, and it is a vibrant living environment.

Caro says that when they bought the farm in 2005, it was conventionally farmed. They started organic farming and in 2008 the wild orchids came back. The systemic fungicides had worked their way out of the soil. Essentially, our soil health was coming back. The mycorrhizae, the fungi growing symbiotically with the roots of the vine, helps them to extend their network, to get more nutrients. However, mycorrhizae will not be there if you're using systemic fungicides.

Caro loves France's respect for food and for taking time to enjoy it. There’s a tradition in the country where everybody, no matter what they do, is somewhat of a gourmet and knows about food and wine. She thinks it does go back to schools with their three-course lunch when they're two and a half at preschool.

About Caro Feely

Caro Feely is a writer, yoga teacher, wine educator and organic farmer. She leads authentic, personalized and educative wine tours, wine courses, walking tours and yoga retreats near Bordeaux in France. She is a published author, an engaging speaker, a registered Yoga Alliance yoga teacher, a WSET* wine educator, and a professional with many years of workshop, presentation, teaching, and management experience. Caro offers accommodation, tours and yoga at her organic farm in Saussignac.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/339.

What makes vine growing and winemaking so physically demanding? What are the hidden dangers of winemaking that most wine lovers never hear about? Why are some winemakers choosing to label their wines as Vin de France rather than follow strict appellation rules?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Caro Feely

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, Grape Adventures. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

How did Oprah Winfrey influence Caro and her husband to follow their dream of owning a vineyard in France?

What was behind the decision to leave their corporate jobs for winemaking, which was such a different career?

Why did Caro choose Bordeaux and Saussignac in particular?

What were the main criteria that Caro and her husband sought when choosing a vineyard?

Were there any transferable skills from the corporate IT world that were helpful in running a winery?

What was the most surprising hurdle Caro and her husband had to overcome to buy their winery?

How does Caro handle the tension between making wines she believes in versus what will pass official approvals or market trends?

Why did Chateau Feely want to be classified as Vin De France?

How physically demanding is winemaking?

What are some of the funniest and most surprising animal-related episodes that have happened at the winery?

Key Takeaways

As Caro explains it involves heavy machinery, tractors, attaching things to tractors, moving heavy pipes and other equipment around. Even hand picking grapes is a fairly active sport. Removing the vine shoots or suckers at the base of the vine is a big job and backbreaking. They don't want them to grow because they take nutrients from the grapes.

Caro says that many wine lovers don't realize how dangerous winemaking is. There are four killers of wine makers. The first one was asphyxiation by CO2. In the fermentation, CO2 is created. If you don't have a way for it to get out of the closed spaces, you're going to get asphyxiated. The second one is falling from height particularly if a little bit of CO2 has escaped and made you a little lightheaded. The next one is machinery, so horrific things like falling into a harvest trailer. Electrocution because you're working with liquids and high electricity.

Caro says that almost all of her wines are labelled Vin de France because she felt that so many of the appellation rules were not about the quality of the wine. She wanted to be free of those unnecessary constraints. For example, one biodynamic winemaker got kicked out of the appellation system because he had weeds under his vines. He handpicks his grapes so it actually doesn't matter if they're weeds under the vines. If you machine pick, the machine will kind of suck up the weeds. Caro would much rather have some weeds than have to use synthetic weed killer. Even when it comes to Saint-Émilion Grand Cru Classé and Premier Grand Cru Classé, some growers got more appellation points for having a parking lot for tour guests than they received for being certified organic.

About Caro Feely

Caro Feely is a writer, yoga teacher, wine educator and organic farmer. She leads authentic, personalized and educative wine tours, wine courses, walking tours and yoga retreats near Bordeaux in France. She is a published author, an engaging speaker, a registered Yoga Alliance yoga teacher, a WSET* wine educator, and a professional with many years of workshop, presentation, teaching, and management experience. Caro offers accommodation, tours and yoga at her organic farm in Saussignac.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/338.

Why is Rosé the go-to wine for celebrity-owned brands rather than Chardonnay or Cabernet? Why are the younger generations of wine drinkers choosing Rosé over red? Is the Rosé boom just a trend, or is its popularity here to stay?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Rasmus Emborg & Jens Honoré, who co-published the Rose Revolution.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Highlights

What are the main differences between wines from Domaine Tempier and Domaine Ott?

What makes some Rosé wines better for aging than others?

How did Gerard Bertrand’s background influence his winemaking style?

Which Provençal cuisine dishes pair best with the Rosé wines?

Why do so many celebrities who come to the wine world choose to make Rosé?

Which celebrity wines are worth buying?

How has social media impacted the Rosé Revolution?

What does the future look like for Rosé’s popularity?

Why have more men started drinking Rosé?

Which wine regions should wine lovers visit to immerse themselves in the world of Rosé?

Key Takeaways

Why is Rosé the go-to wine for celebrity-owned brands rather than Chardonnay or Cabernet?

As Rasmus and Jens explain, Rosé is much easier to embrace for a broad audience. Rosé has a lot of lovers, but they don't have any enemies. So you can be a serious musician, a rocker, a pop star, and embrace Rosé. When you're just a celebrity and not a winemaker it's way more bankable and easier to market. We tried a lot of those wines and I'll tell you, some of them are pretty good, big bang for the buck. Brad Pitt, John Legend, Sarah Jessica Parker, Jon Bon Jovi, Cameron Diaz and Kylie Minogue

Why are the younger generations of wine drinkers choosing Rosé over red?

Rasmus and Jens observe that young people don't drink much red wine, but they drink a lot of white wine and Rosé because it's kind of like a celebratory wine. It's become a wine you kind of gather around. You don't disagree about it. You can’t be talked down to if you don't know the terroir, the grapes etc. If it's endorsed by a rapper or rock music or whatever, it enhances that experience.

Is the Rosé boom just a trend or is its popularity here to stay?

Rasmus and Jens believe that Rosé has established itself as a third wine category. We’ll still see the quality improve and higher price points. In France, 3 out of 10 bottles are Rosé, globally, it's about one out of 10. They are seeing a trend of Rosé taking market share from red wine whereas white wine is stable.

About Rasmus Emborg & Jens Honoré

Rasmus Emborg is a journalist who has worked in the media industry for over 25 years. He is the author of Beer Brothers (2019), about twin beer brewers Mikkel Borg-Bjergsø and Jeppe Jarnit-Bjergsø. He and his wife own a small vineyard in Provence. The grapes are mainly used for rosé wine, and the production takes place at a local cooperative.

Jens Honoré is a photographer who has worked in the advertising industry for 30 years. In 2018, he published A Place to Dream for SOS Children’s Villages, and in partnership with Jens Vilstrup, he published the book, Farewell to a Black/White World about the UN’s 2015 Sustainable Development Goals. He has also contributed to Building a Dream about LEGO owner Kjeld Kirks Kristiansen’s realization of LEGO House. In 2021, he published The Right to Food about homeless people’s relationship with food. Jens lives in New York and as a wine enthusiast, has followed the trend of increasing enthusiasm for rosé wine with great interest.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/337.

How did Rosé get a bad reputation as not being a “real” wine? How did Marcel Ott revolutionize the world of Rosé wine? Why is Grenache a popular grape for making trendy pale Rosés? How do Rosé’s beautiful bottles both help and hurt its reputation?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Rasmus Emborg and Jens Honoré, the author and photographer, respectively, who have published Rosé Revolution.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Highlights

How did Jens and Rasmus develop a love for Rosé?

What does Rasmus find most satisfying about owning a vineyard?

Why did Jens and Rasmus want to produce their book independently?

Why did Jens choose to photograph the winemakers in black and white, using an analog camera?

What was the most challenging aspect of writing Rosé Revolution?

Why was Marcel Ott’s pioneering decision to treat Rosé as a wine in its own right so radical in 1912?

Why did Rosé have such a bad reputation?

What makes Grenache such a good grape to make Rosé?

Are there benefits to the shape of the iconic Domain Ott bottles?

What are some of the wildest bottle Rosé designs Jens found in researching Rosé Revolution?

Why does Rasmus believe we’ll see more Rosé being sold in brown bottles in the future?

What role do ultra-premium Rosés play in the market?

Beyond great quality, what factors have made Whispering Angel so successful?

Key Takeaways

Rosé wine is made from red wine grapes, and it's the skin that gives color and tannin to the wine. If you let the wine ferment with the skin, you end up with a red wine. Rosé wine was produced as an afterthought, rather than with the intention to make it. This is part of why Rosé has had a bad reputation because it's been considered a byproduct.

Marcel Ott was fascinated by Rosé wine because he thought that this was a wine that had the taste of the grapes most precisely. Marcel Ott was the first one to choose the variety of grapes that gave the best Rosé, to position the vineyards in the best possible way to make good Rosé and to choose the harvest time with the ambition to make the best possible Rosé.

Grenache is a grape with thin skins and very little pigment so it brings little color to the wine. This is the kind of Rosé wine that is the most trendy these years. It’s pale, dry, crisp wine, what we call the Provence style. But also, Grenache has this natural sweetness that applies well to the Rosé wine category as well.

Rosé, with its beautiful colour in a transparent, creatively designed bottle, looks great on the shelves in the liquor store. It looks good on Instagram. And I think this is a part of the popularity of Rosé. At the same time, it's also a reason why the bad reputation of Rosé wine remains with some of the wine establishment. At the same time, it’s much easier to recycle brown glass than clear glass.

About Rasmus Emborg & Jens Honoré

Rasmus Emborg is a journalist who has worked in the media industry for over 25 years. He is the author of Beer Brothers (2019), about twin beer brewers Mikkel Borg-Bjergsø and Jeppe Jarnit-Bjergsø. He and his wife own a small vineyard in Provence. The grapes are mainly used for rosé wine, and the production takes place at a local cooperative.

Jens Honoré is a photographer who has worked in the advertising industry for 30 years. In 2018, he published A Place to Dream for SOS Children’s Villages, and in partnership with Jens Vilstrup, he published the book, Farewell to a Black/White World about the UN’s 2015 Sustainable Development Goals. He has also contributed to Building a Dream about LEGO owner Kjeld Kirks Kristiansen’s realization of LEGO House. In 2021, he published The Right to Food about homeless people’s relationship with food. Jens lives in New York and as a wine enthusiast, has followed the trend of increasing enthusiasm for rosé wine with great interest.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/336.