Verse Talks

01:08 - Leaving art school and early success  

03:15 - Staying true to your artistic voice 

06:00 - Whitehawk and Nottingham Forest 

07:13 - Frieze Magazine, Transmission Gallery and Err 

10:46 - Tapping one's internal monologue 

12:04 - The importance of comedy in art 

14:15 - Shrig Shop, merchandise and exploring context 

19:01 - Chocolate's Not The Problem, You Are The Problem 

23:10 - Sales mechanics and managing supply   

27:50 - Problem Guitars 

28:42 - Exploring NFTs in the context of David's practice 

34:50 - How the art world has changed since the 90s 

36:18 - Sidmouth School of Art 

40:30 - Community art as a political act 

44:28 - Where the art world is heading 

https://davidshrigley.com 

https://shrigshop.com 

https://www.instagram.com/davidshrigley 

00:25 - Welcome Motzko 

03:22 - Marfa recap  

07:50 - Connecting and consolidating relationships 

11:28 - Marfa highlights 

13:50 - Fallout from the Raoul clip 

19:16 - Navigating the social media landscape 

26:00 - Motzko's collecting thesis

31:41 - Creating an aesthetic experience while scrolling 

34:50 - Outside perspectives and judgments 

36:37 - Silicon Valley's silence around NFTs 

38:58 - Collecting as a means of self-expression 

40:25 - Motzko's artist picks: Rafaël and Lorna 

44:55 - New Three.js work and the browser as a medium 

50:16 - A question of context and framing 

51:30 - Exploring Quine by Larva Labs 

57:16 - $PNKSTR 

01:03:24 - fxhash opens back up 

01:05:22 - Is VVV's continued hype sustainable 

01:08:15 - The strength of the Avant Gay community 

01:10:55 - The difference in culture across chains 

01:15:22 - The issue with aesthetic over saturation 

01:16:17 - Tezos and artist collaboration 

01:18:18 - William Mapan and Superpositions 

01:26:30 - Ivan and Sam's departure from Verse 

01:33:44 - Verse rundown 

https://motzko.net 

motzko: https://x.com/motzko

Lorna Mills: https://x.com/lm_netwebs 

Rafaël Rozendaal: https://x.com/newrafael

Samsy: https://x.com/samsyyyy 

William Mapan: https://x.com/williamapan 

Larva Labs: https://x.com/larvalabs 

00:35 - Welcome Redbeard 

02:58 - Discovering digital art 

05:03 - Too many sellers, not enough buyers 

09:13 - Debunking the cabal 

15:13 - Power laws, high prices and rising tides 

18:42 - Building relationships and community 

22:30 - Uplifting voices and building on history 

23:17 - The importance of open-minded participation 

25:55 - Being part of a movement and making an impact 

29:08 - Zoom out and refine your focus 

31:28 - Collaborate more, compete less 

32:44 - Inside the Whitney selection committee 

35:05 - Performance art belongs on-chain 

36:03 - Institutions help, community leads 

40:35 - Expanding the community beyond X 

42:38 - Showcasing the human side of the artists 

46:20 - Looking past the tweets and connecting in person 

50:15 - The value of innovation   

Redbeard: https://x.com/redbeardnft

00:40 - Welcome Hilde Lynn Helphenstein

07:20 - Conservatism in the art world 

10:02 - Early exposure to different cultures 

11:54 - Conceptual Art, new genres and developing a practice 

14:01 - The art world as a performance 

16:54 - From Hooters to Art Basel 

18:09 - The birth of Jerry Gogosian 

22:24 - Problems built into the business model 

24:43 - AI and the potential valuelessness of art 

30:03 - How social media has changed the art world 

34:15 - The myth of inclusivity 

39:20 - The pandemic, cultural shifts and NFTs 

44:36 - The power of physicality in art 

48:45 -  We are all memes 

50:40 - The power of the network and connection 

56:00 - Normalised extremes and impostor syndrome 

01:02:10 - The cost of opening up to an audience 

01:14:50 - Moving forward and thinking about the future 

01:25:10 - Gozo and the importance of texture in digital art 

01:30:37 - A missing historical context in NFTs 

01:38:30 - What art will look like in the future 

01:43:05 - Technophobia and protectionism in the traditional art world 

01:49:20 - Cancel culture, polarisation and satire 

01:55:52 - A future NFT true believer 

Jerry Gogosian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jerrygogosian 

Jerry Gogosian X: https://x.com/jerrygogosian

Gozo - an improbable thread: https://verse.works/series/an-improbable-thread-by-gozo 

Gozo: https://x.com/uncertaingaze

00:42 - Welcome Sasha Stiles 

04:55 - The foundations for an endless curiosity 

09:50 - Connecting with Kalmyk art forms 

13:40 - From academia to the arts 

16:20 - New York, cultural absorption and parallel careers 

19:05 - Living through pivotal technological shifts 

21:52 - An ongoing cultural relationship with technology 

23:20 - Nick Bostrom, Superintelligence and Attention Is All You Need 

26:39 - The role of the writer and language in the wake of AI 

28:29 - Talk to Transformer, early tooling and digital exploration 

32:58 - Working with an AI co-author 

33:40 - A constantly evolving data set 

35:30 - Defining the art and shaping the system 

38:26 - Loss of nuance online and the impact of live performance 

41:40 - Identifying as an artist and blockchain as a multi-media printing press 

48:20 - 2020 and people connecting online 

52:00 - The importance of community and social media 

54:38 - The role of a gallery in an artist's career 

58:45 - The stresses of a financialized practice 

01:00:45 - theVERSEverse and the growth of an experimental collective 

01:06:56 - A Living Poem at MoMa 

01:11:23 - Situating AI-powered verse in the tradition of text-based art 

01:16:19 - Upcoming writing, work and special events at MoMa 

Sasha Stiles: https://x.com/sashastiles

A Living Poem: https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/5839 

https://theverseverse.com    

00:25 – Intro: Raoul Pal

01:05 – Real Vision: why it started after the GFC/Euro crisis

02:06 – Democratising finance content; early crypto coverage

03:41 – Bootstrapping video: “we knew f*** all” era (2013–14)

04:45 – Word of mouth growth; mistakes + learning media/tech

06:40 – Art + NFTs: desire to be part of a cultural movement

09:05 – Crypto Twitter as daily culture; priceless long-term record

10:33 – What is “consensus”? Attention as the driver

13:00 – Influencers vs. durable consensus (fleeting vs. lasting)

14:32 – Do we need museum/gallery validation? Two worlds emerge

16:36 – Museums, value, and attention 

17:19 – Counterpoint from museum practice; cultural significance

18:37 – Once museums act, value follows; UK institutions lag on digital

20:56 – Egalitarian internet: anyone can show, few will sell

22:19 – Raoul’s barbell thesis: ultra-culture ↔ frontier tech

24:10 – Living with digital art; display that works vs. doesn’t

25:33 – XCOPY supply dynamics; Beeple’s opposite path

28:05 – Die With The Most Likes: world-building & collector bonds

29:57 – Explaining it to the “old world”; youth curators & A&R analogy

30:52 – People will write the art history; institutions must adapt

32:27 – Contemporary art attention collapse; digital shows done poorly

33:48 – Onboarding wealthy collectors: friction + sticker shock

35:48 – Curation, custody, and NFT funds as bridges

37:22 – Can outsiders “feel it” without the chats? Not yet

38:52 – Is recommending digital art scary? On risk & Lindy effects

40:19 – The collector’s journey: pain → pride → taste

41:57 – Where are we in the NFT art cycle? Re-ratings ahead

43:45 – Token incentives = attention fuel, but fleeting

44:48 – Toward automated, attention-driven art funds (later)

46:11 – Shiny objects vs. signal; what the experiments teach

48:00 – AI upends moats; community as the moat

49:39 – One-to-one media future; end of “one-to-many”

51:00 – Human connection, shared experiences become scarce

51:40 – Art as cultural capsule in an AI world

53:06 – Marfa event as a “marker stone”

54:13 – Small world energy; one degree of separation

55:18 – Thanks + closing…

55:37 – One last Q: why Raoul goes against the grain

56:05 – Rebellion roots; living in the future

57:38 – Do it differently; travel > prestige paths

59:50 – Be yourself in the age of AI; find your voice

01:00:26 – Comfort zone ≠ where the magic happens

https://x.com/RaoulGMI

https://x.com/XCOPYART

https://x.com/kimasendorf

https://x.com/toadswiback

00:33 - Welcome Adrian Pocobelli 

01:39 - Discovering the counterculture 

07:10 - The desire to collect 

13:05 - The Stone Roses, The Smiths, and J. G. Ballard 

19:00 - Neoplatonism and psychedelics 

24:30 - Learning the craft of graphic design 

26:50 - Becoming a broadcaster 

29:05 - Finding crypto, Objkt and Tezos 

31:35 - The difference between crypto art and art on the blockchain 

34:52 - The evolution of the NFT space 

39:45 - The complexities of running a marketplace 

44:05 - Chain-specific culture 

45:51 - The Pocobelli Collection on Verse 

46:45 - What does it mean to be a digital gallery 

51:07 - The difference between a traditional and digital understanding 

54:42 - The thinking behind Artist Journal 

01:02:10 - Speaking on inspiration vs. plagiarism 

01:08:50 - Derivative culture in the space 

01:12:40 - Placing the focus on the art rather than the market 

01:14:50 - The Kurt Hustle Collective and WeB'97 

01:21:41 - An Italian sensibility and open-minded approach 

01:26:20 - The future of digital art

01:31:15 - Creating a welcoming environment for new collectors 

01:35:30 - Educating new entrants to the space 

Adrian Pocobelli: https://x.com/pocobelli 

Kurt Hustle Collective: https://x.com/kurthustle97 

Terry Visual: https://x.com/terryvisual 

JNK: https://x.com/jnk101 

haydiroket: https://x.com/haydiroket 

00:45 - Welcome Sebastian Sanchez 

08:55 - A journey into digital art 

11:05 - Christie's 3.0 and joining the team 

17:44 - Developing a commercial mindset 

20:40 - Finding the right market fit 

22:30 - Nurturing artist and collector relationships 

25:05 - Highlights across the last three years 

26:58 - Curatorial vs commercial perspectives 

30:18 - The effect of an open market on institutional Web3 adoption 

32:12 - The closure of Christie's digital art department 

35:05 - The implications of digital work in the evening sale  

38:42 - Winning collections and building the narrative 

43:40 - Dynamics between primary and secondary markets 

45:55 - Institutional vs. market credibility 

48:00 - The reality of a nascent space 

52:04 - A changing collector base 

54:26 - A moment of future historical importance 

56:19 - Sebastian's artist highlights 

57:40 - The emergence of a merged market 

01:00:28 - Verse roundtable 

01:02:00 - V001: In Real Time recap 

01:08:27 - The power of relational dynamics and mixed lots 

01:14:26 - Marketing, strategies and themed lots 

01:25:25 - Upcoming in-person events and gallery shows 

01:27:45 - $PNKSTR 

01:30:47 - Traditional art market decline 

01:36:30 - Jack Butcher's Gas Wars 

01:38:48 - Eric De Giuli and Zero (Broken Symmetry) 

01:47:00 - Artist highlights 

Sebastian Sanchez: https://x.com/sebastianss527 

Lowbie: https://x.com/archivepilled 

Thelonious Stokes: https://www.instagram.com/thelonious_art 

Sachcoo The Arty: https://x.com/sachcoo_thearty 

James Bloom: https://x.com/crashblossom1 

Maya Man: https://x.com/mayaonthenet 

Joe Pease: https://x.com/joepease 

William Mapan: https://x.com/williamapan

00:45 - Yeche Lange and Avant Gay recap 

05:40 - Series size and collector focus 

10:00 - Artist trajectories and release mechanics 

13:10 - Art and the Diderot effect 

20:10 - Collecting strategies and high-net-worth individuals 

24:45 - What if every work was soulbound 

28:30 - Cultural stickiness in the face of diluted attention 

33:00 - Collecting as self narrative reinforcement 

35:28 - Christie's digital art department closure 

42:03 - V001: In Real Time 

45:20 - Selecting lots and coordinating the auction 

52:15 - The risk of exposing markets 

56:30 - Rebalancing collections and investing in emerging artists 

59:20 - Dream lots 

01:02:15 - An art-forward approach 

01:07:59 - ACK's piano at Carnegie Hall 

01:11:35 -  Sasha Stiles at MoMa 

01:12:53 - The emergence of different cultural spheres within the space 

01:15:40 - An artist-based curatorial program 

01:24:45 - Narrative, sales and market realities 

01:28:40 - Parker Ito, Hyper-Gamble and community energy 

01:30:29 - Artist highlights 

01:36:06 - Verse rundown 

Elfilter: https://x.com/elfilter_a 

Mike Balzer: https://x.com/pxlshrd 

Alkan Avcioğlu: https://x.com/evergreendazed 

Edward Burtynsky: https://x.com/edwardburtynsky 

evil biscuit: https://x.com/bis__cut 

Pipilotti Rist: https://www.instagram.com/pipilotti_rist_studio 

V001: In Real Time: https://verse.works/exhibitions/v001-in-real-time

00:45 - Welcome Eric De Giuli 

02:18 - Connecting art and theoretical physics 

05:35 - Early explorations into generative art 

08:29 - Balancing artistic and academic practices 

10:35 - Discovering NFTs, 2021, and Art Blocks 

13:05 - Navigating multiple audiences 

16:25 - Creating order from nothing 

18:55 - Avoiding noise as a structural element 

23:50 - Amplifying and controlling unpredictability 

26:56 - Emergent complexity from simple building blocks 

33:00 - The work as an unfolding performance 

34:57 - Floating-point errors as a source of structural randomness 

37:56 - Colour as an aesthetic choice 

41:15 - Finding room for creative expression in physics 

44:07 - AI and exploring complex systems 

48:05 - Simulation theory and the burden of proof 

51:45 - Community and artistic connection  

54:35 - Complementary careers and entwined practices 

58:12 - Exploring Calian and Atlas 

01:00:12 - Zero (Broken Symmetry) 

Eric De Giuli: https://x.com/eeedg__