Here are three big insights that emerge from this Change Signal conversation with Hahrie Han:

Are you creating value or just convenience?;

Does belonging come before belief in your organization?; and

Are you building agency or just compliance?

Hahrie Han, political scientist at Johns Hopkins University and author of How Organizations Develop Activists and Undivided, has spent her career studying how people build power that lasts. She brings a sharp, human perspective on what drives genuine participation and why small, intentional acts often change systems more than sweeping plans.

The conversation explores why engagement depends less on ease and more on meaning, how “radical belonging” can transform even divided communities, and how leaders can use small, safe failures to build confidence and agency across teams.

You’ll also hear practical tools for turning involvement into influence — designing scaffolding that helps people learn from risk and own their results.

If you’re leading transformation, culture, or change projects in a big organization, this conversation offers fresh, grounded insight into how participation turns into durable power.

Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. This is the podcast for transformational leaders seeking modern change mastery.

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