In this "2 Of Us" episode, Steven Watt and John Cassidy catch up on recent winter running highlights, provide a comprehensive wrap-up of the brutal conditions at the Winter Spine Race, and reveal their own massive running and fundraising goals for the upcoming season.

Discussions include:

• Looking back at "Running Rants," the "UN Awards," and the challenge to create creative Strava art.
• Five Star Run Club: Celebrating the 10th anniversary of the running initiative in Auchterarder founded by Steven’s wife, Fiona.
• The Nigel Barge Race: John recaps his 56-minute finish at the Maryhill event and his goal of finishing before a specific one-hour playlist ended.
• Winter Spine Race Roundup: A detailed breakdown of results across all distances, including the 268-mile full spine won by Sebastian Raichon and Anna Troup.
• Major Announcement: John reveals he has signed up for the Summer Spine Challenger South (108 miles) this June.
• Fundraising for CALM: John discusses his motivation for supporting the Campaign Against Living Miserably (CALM) and his commitment to not cutting his hair until the end of the year to raise suicide awareness.
• Road to Paris: Steven announces his return to racing at the Paris Marathon in April, fundraising for the Rooprai Spinal Trust (RST).
• Megan Boxall’s UK Run: Highlighting Megan’s incredible journey running the circumference of the UK (200 marathons in 200 days) for the Samaritans.
• Arc of Attrition: A look ahead to the upcoming winter ultra in Cornwall.

• Megans tracker: YBTracking Viewer - 200 Marathons 200 Days
• Megans Instagram
• JC's Fundraiser

Enjoy

In this episode, we welcome back ultrarunning legend Debbie Martin Consani for her 9th (NINTH) appearance on the show. As the 2026 Winter Spine Race unfolds, Debbie provides her expert perspective on what makes this nasty 268-mile trek along the Pennine Way so unique. From the deep thaw slush of the current race to her own legendary 2022 victory, Debbie shares insights on gear, the psychology of 'being bothered,' and why sometimes the best race plan is having no plan at all.

Key Highlights & Topics

The Current "Thaw" Year: Debbie discusses how the 2026 race transitioned from heavy snow to a deep thaw, creating treacherous slush and rising river levels.

The "Nasty" Pennine Way: A deep dive into why this trail is particularly arduous, featuring the mud suction that can cause shin issues.

The Philosophy of "Be Bothered": Insights into race management and the importance of self care e.g. if your feet/hands are cold, be bothered to fix this before it becomes a race ending problem.

Breaking News: Discussion regarding Sarah Porter who was removed from the Spine Race for safety reasons due to threats related to her charitable work. See link at the end of show notes.

Fuelling 268 Miles: Debbie reveals her go-to calorie-dense snacks, including Bournville chocolate and 500-calorie flapjacks.

Reliving the 2022 Win: Debbie reflects on her victory, finishing in 104 hours with only 7 hours of sleep across four and a half days.

As discussed, the Run Ultra Sarah Porter interview

Yer running rants

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It's aw aboot you...ken

It's part one. It's long, you made it happen, it's brilliant...

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We sit down with Scottish running superstar Morag Millar for an honest, engaging and fun chat! Morag dives into her journey from a football-obsessed kid (opposing parents thought she was a boy) to becoming a European Junior champion. She reveals about her Commonwealth Games race (mostly powered by... aqua jogging?)Morag also gets seriously personal about balancing elite training with motherhood and the magical power of pelvic floor physios.

We chat about:• The Traumatic Truth: She only took up athletics to get faster for football, but the coach's promise of fewer injuries was definitely a lie!• The Aqua Games: How running the Commonwealth Games 1500m final at 19 was less about training and more about surviving off an intense aqua-jogging regime.• The Unforgettable Snack: Morag talks about a 'massive' ball of meat on a stick in Estonia!• "My Old Body" and the Grind: The only thing worse than a 12-mile Sunday long run is the fear of accidentally throwing out your treasured Scotland jersey during a house clear-out.• From C-Section to Super-Mum: The emotional and amazing story of her second birth, the incredible care she received, and why pelvic health physio is a non-negotiable priority for running mums.• 40 is the New 5K PB: Morag is in a race against the clock (and her 40th birthday!) to snag a spot on the V35 all-time list before being forced to dominate the V40 category.• The Real MVP: Morag reveals the secret to balancing elite training, clinic work, and two young kids: a massive support team of magical grandparents.

Rejuvenation by Dr Morag

Blair Inglis PT

Photo credit: Bobby Gavin

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We welcome legendary runner Chris Finill to the podcast. Chris, a long-time member of Harrow Athletic Club, takes us through his remarkable journey, from being inspired by Olympic champions living on his childhood street to his transition from track events to ultra-marathons. We discuss his famous streak of consecutive sub-3 hour marathons, the debate over modern shoe technology, his experience running across the United States, and what it takes to tackle the hardest races in the world.

Chris was born on the same street as Roger Bannister and was babysat by Olympic gold medallist Judy Grinham, giving him an early connection to sports. His early running motivation included running to the shops to beat his previous time.

Chris met Roger Bannister in 2004 at the 50th anniversary of the Four Minute Mile, when Roger Bannister was given the freedom of Harrow.

Chris's early focus was on steeplechase, which he ran regularly for his club for 20-25 years. He has been a member of Harrow AC since 1974. The club started as a closed club (Old Gaytonians, from his school) and eventually became an open club. Harrow AC recently won the National Athletics League, the highest domestic competition for a club.

We discuss with Chris the research into whether his run of 24 or 25 consecutive sub-3 hour London marathons was a world record.

Chris believes the claim that modern plated shoes make you 4% faster is "ludicrously high" , noting that athletes only need to believe they are a minute faster to want them.

When discussing nutrition Chris emphasises that a runner's diet is what they "averagely eat" day-to-day, year in, year out, not just race-day fuelling.

Chris thinks the 24-hour races have been his hardest, especially when running at 4 AM after being on your feet for 16 hours.

Chris became curious about running beyond the marathon in his late 30s and began running 100Ks and 24-hour races. In 2011, Chris and a friend ran from the West Coast to New York over the course of 80 days. The idea was inspired by James Shapiro's book Meditations from the Breakdown Lane. The transcontinental run required immense commitment, including Chris having to threaten to resign from his job and his wife driving the support car for 9,000 miles.

After an unsuccessful attempt at the Bob Graham Round seven or eight years ago, Chris plans to attempt the Joss Naylor Challenge to get "closure with fell running".

In this incredibly open and honest episode, we sit down with guest Caroline McKay for a chat that spans her roots on the Isle of Mull, and the profound emotional journey that led her to ultra running. Caroline shares her recent success at the California Fall Classic and the powerful motivation she carries with her on the trails.

Caroline reveals she "hated running" early in life and discusses her upbringing on the Isle of Mull, living an outdoors lifestyle with her marine biologist parents and working on their shellfish farm. Caroline recounts moving to Manchester at 17 to work in a nightclub and also work in fashion, and how she went down a "disruptive path" involving heavy smoking, drinking, and substance use.

Caroline talks about moving back to Edinburgh, being a major milestone for her health. A friend planting the seed about the 53-mile Highland Fling race introduced her to ultra running.

Caroline speaks about getting into ultra running podcasts like Trail Runner Nation, Ultra Runner podcast, and Talk Ultra. She mentions being inspired by Ellie Greenwood and the empowering feeling of seeing women like her succeed. There is a brief mention of Caroline's own podcast, Of Mountains and Minds, and her experience interviewing the incredible Jasmin Paris.

An impulsive, wild story about a trip to the US to support a record-breaking trans-American run attempt which ended in a mess, a pulled sponsorship, and an NDA.

We discuss running the West Highland Way and getting into the Western States 100 lottery for 2013. She talks about her training and preparation, including running the Great Wilderness Challenge (23 miles).

We have a deep dive into Carolines fuelling strategy, including using Huma Chia gels, salted potatoes, and salt tabs.

Caroline shares her motivation, including the goal of not having another DNF (mentioning the Georgia Death Race and UTMB) and drawing strength from her kids.

Caroline shares her pride in her recent California Fall Classic race, hitting her goal of going sub-16 hours with a time of 15:48

We've reached the halfway point of Season 14, and this week, we're joined by ultra-runner Dave Moulding! Dave's running journey proves you don't need to be fit—just well-costumed. Dave takes us from his "unhealthiest, least fit period" , which involved running a 10K dressed as The Stig (complete with a paper mâché helmet) , and then wearing it for 8 hours in the pub afterwards.This paved the way for taking on the brutal, 215-mile Race Across Scotland. Dave also spills the beans on his terrifyingly-efficient support crew, with none other than our own Yorkshire Correspondent, Mel Sykes. Find out how Mel & Jo enforced a strict 90-minute sleep rule , why Dave felt like a child begging for "five more minutes on my phone" , and the crew's no-nonsense mantra for foot care: "Socks off, let's get stuck in!".Plus, Dave shares his strategy for telling the unkind voice in his head "Not today, thank you" , and the shockingly painful moment an electric fence touched his ring.Our chat includes• From being "spectacularly average" at all sports to going "all in" on Ironman training.• Why running a 10K in a paper mâché helmet was the perfect "get out" for not being fit —and the 8 hours he spent wearing it in the pub.• Why ultra-runners are just like toddlers asking for five more minutes on their phones.• The crew mantra for blister management: "Socks off, let's get stuck in!".• Dave's biggest strength is his head. How to tell the unkind voice in your brain, "Not today, thank you".• The electrifying moment a charged fence and a wedding ring got a little too close.

Welcome back for the episode you've all been waiting for!

This week, the hosts dive into a tale of extreme physical endurance, mental warfare, and sacrificed beards. John gives us the full, chaotic debrief from his 100-mile attempt on the Mark Cockbain 400 metre track event, while Steven wonders if shaving your face is a viable streamlining tactic for ultraunning.

We dive head-first to "The Chilli Trail" for an update on the 100% sold-out UK premier 10K trail event. Steven gives a spicy route report, confirming the ground is soft and predicting a glorious, spectacular mud-fest. This also leads to a discussion on the immediate need for Hoka wellies and you find out how to get your hands on a limited-edition sticker and a spot in the 2026 event.

Then, the main topic: John’s Track 100 Debrief. John recounts his experience from The Track, he explains the crucial lessons learned from last year: how running in the outside lane added miles to his watch—and why sticking to the white line is essential for any aspiring 403-lap lunatic. John reveals his last-minute race mantra ("slow and smooth" ), his absolute lowest point of the run, which he combated by playing games with other runners and also receiving an surprise 15-second video message from the legendary Jasmin Paris.

It’s a tale of physical endurance, mental warfare, and not wanting to disappoint your coach (shout out to the phenomenal Fiona Watt!)