In this episode I talk with Leisa Masters from Earthside Birth Services on the subject of money and worth in motherhood and in business. We are both single mothers and business owners whose work supports mothers. It’s from this context that we explore how mothering is financially devalued, and the correlated challenges we’ve experienced in running businesses that support mothers. This episode covers research on the ‘motherhood penalty’, the ‘maternal ‘wall’ as the new ‘glass ceiling’, and the economic value of women’s care-work. There is recognition of our collective loss of community support and the commodification and hierarchy of valuing tangible ‘things’ in motherhood. We delve into a deeper discussion about the discomfort that can come up both in motherhood and specifically in mother-run businesses, around self-worth, and the socially reinforced expectation that mothers try and prove our worth through measurable, quantifiable outputs. We consider all of the ways that mothering is skilled work, how the way we see ourselves impacts how others see us too, and the potential that would open up for mothers if we were to recognise and claim our individual and collective value.