A New York Minute in History

2025 marks the 200th anniversary of the completion of the Erie Canal in 1825 and New York State has a huge party planned. On this episode of the podcast, we speak with state officials and local partners to discuss this momentous birthday celebration and the importance of the Canal System today and into the future.

Interviewees: William J. Hochul Jr., First Gentleman of the State of New York and co-chair of the New York State Erie Canal Bicentennial Commission, Brian U. Stratton, Director of the New York State Canal Corporation and co-chair of the New York State Erie Canal Bicentennial Commission, and Derrick Pratt, Director of Education and Public Programs at the Erie Canal Museum. 

For a deeper dive into the history of the Erie Canal, check out episode 3 of A New York Minute in History called “Erie Canal: Compressing Time and Distance.”

Marker of Focus: Old Erie Canal, Onondaga County.

Image Courtesy of the William G. Pomeroy Foundation

Transporting Grains on the Erie Canal, late 19th century, courtesy of the New York State Museum

Courtesy of the Erie Canalway National Heritage Corridor

The Seneca Chief, Image Courtesy of the Buffalo Maritime Center

New York State Canal Corporation Bicentennial Website

Erie Canalway National Heritage Corridor Bicentennial Website

2025 World Canals Conference, Buffalo, NY September 21-25

Buffalo Maritime Center: The Bicentennial Voyage of the Seneca Chief

Albany Symphony Orchestra: 2025 American Music Festival

Carol Sheriff, The Artificial River: The Erie Canal and the Paradox of Progress, 1997.

Brad Utter, Ashley Hopkins-Benton and Karen Quinn, Enterprising Waters: The History and Art of New York’s Erie Canal, 2020.

Laurence M. Hauptman, Conspiracy of Interests: Iroquois Dispossession and the Rise of New York State, 2001.

WMHT: Reflections on the Erie Canal

Consider the Source New York: Erie Canal

Erie Canalway National Heritage Corridor: Teacher Resources

Erie Canal Museum: Educational Resources for School and Home

Buffalo Maritime Center: Student Programs

Lauren:

On this month's episode, we're focusing on the 200th anniversary of the completion and opening of the Erie Canal. Now there are several historic markers that relate to the incredibly important history of the Erie Canal all across New York state. As an example, there's a marker located in the hamlet of Memphis, which is outside of Syracuse in Onondaga County. Although you may not have heard of this Memphis, it does have a particular claim to fame. It's located on Bennett's corners road, and the text reads, old Erie Canal, formerly called Canton Memphis, was halfway stop on original canal route, 179

miles from Buffalo and 183 miles from Albany, William G Pomeroy Foundation, 2018.

Now, if you're Interested in an in depth history of the Erie Canal. You should go back and listen to our earlier podcast from several years ago in 2018 it actually predates me as co host, so you'll be able to hear our former co host, Don Wildman, and it's called the Erie Canal, compressing time and distance, and that'll give you a good foundation about why the canal was so integral to the 19th century development of New York State. But on this episode, we're going to focus on the 200th anniversary of the opening of the canal and all of the events and celebrations and exhibits that are planned throughout 2025 to celebrate this milestone. Now, being that the marker I just mentioned is just outside of Syracuse, we're going to start right in that area at the Erie Canal museum. We were able to speak with director of education and public programming, Derek Pratt, about their upcoming plans to celebrate the 200th anniversary of the Erie Canal.

Derrick Pratt:

I'm Derrick Pratt, director of education and public programming at the Erie Canal Museum in Syracuse, New York, and our mission at the museum is to tell the story of the canal, past, present and future. And as Director of Education, kind of my job to get that story in front of people. So the museum is housed in what we believe is our most important artifact, which is the 1850 Syracuse Weighlock building. That's W, E, I, g, h lock. It was essentially a toll booth on the canal. You would bring your canal boat into it, and it would get weighed and assessed a toll. There were seven of these across the state after they stopped collecting tolls in 1883 the weighlocks fell out of use in a lot of cases and were taken apart, with the exception of the Syracuse weighlock building, which itself was almost destroyed during the construction of interstate 81 in Syracuse.

But in 1962 thanks to protests by the Junior League of Syracuse and the canal Society of New York State, the building was saved. It was purchased by Onondaga County with the specific caveat that it be a canal Museum in perpetuity. So that's how we were born. We're a private museum while the county owns the building. We're independent of them. Yeah.

So we have a lot going on at the museum this year. We have our kind of flagship program, is our Sloan Lecture Series, which we've got some really great speakers in. And those events are also simulcast on Zoom, and you get recordings afterwards, so even people who aren't in Central New York can view them. We have some, some pretty interesting ones coming up. But we also have our beers bikes and barges cycling series, where we partner with different historic groups throughout the state to put on about hour long bike tours in different canal towns, learn the history of the town, and then we end at a local brewery, typically, and part of your ticket is you, you get to enjoy a beer at the end on us. So that's fun.

Another big thing, we have been supported by the Pomeroy foundation in our Bicentennial research project. So one of the things the Erie Canal Museum is really committed to is expanding the narrative of the Erie Canal. And there's just so much stuff that hasn't been covered in Canal history, we are encouraging researchers to do their own research, head into archives in their communities or state archives. People are also welcome to come to the Erie Canal museums, archives, which are pretty extensive, and research a topic that's under discussed in the canal world. And we're collecting all of those papers by August 31 is the due date, and then the hope is to publish kind of a compilation of all of these new bits of research and hopefully also use them to help various people who've submitted them apply for Pomeroy markers throughout the state as well. And further expand this history, we are working to expand the history of the canal, and some of the biggest kind of examples of that that we've implemented at the museum are a series of walking tours. Pathways of resistance, walking tour looking at abolition along the canal through downtown Syracuse and waterway of change, looking at the women's rights movement. Both of those tours are being funded by on the canals, which there are free events happening throughout the state in all sorts of especially recreation. We also have tours look that look at the architecture of the canal in Syracuse and one in Baldwinsville, looking at its unique canal history as well. So that's something I would suggest people check out. And they have like bike tours and kayaking tours throughout the state as well.

Devin:

Now Lauren, as historians, it seems like we are always working to commemorate some momentous event, some anniversary or something related to history of the locality, the municipality, in some cases, the state. This is one of the big ones here. 2025 is a big year. The Erie Canal is beyond important in the history of the state of New York and the nation, really, this commemoration is really something that we've been excited about at the State Museum and the office of cultural education. Really, going back to 2017 when we commemorated the beginning of the construction of the Erie Canal, which began in 1817.  We had a big, exciting exhibit called Enterprising Waters. We also released a book that was a gallery guide to that exhibit. So this is something that has been part of the work of the State Museum and the State Library and state archives, really starting in before even 2017 but we've been looking forward to 2025 as kind of the completion of the Erie Canal, as we said, 1825 but also a way to celebrate the entire system.

One of the things that people sometimes forget is that when we're talking about the canal system, we're talking about more than just the Erie Canal. We're talking about four canals that comprise the canal system in New York State, of course, the Erie Canal being the largest, but also the Champlain canal, Oswego canal and Cayuga Seneca canal. So when we're looking at the Erie Canal, we all kind of know the history, or we should. And as Lauren noted, please go back and check out our earlier episode from 2018 where we dive into that history of the construction of the Erie Canal and what it meant, but also some of the parts of the history, including indigenous displacement of their lands that were used to construct the Erie Canal and the complexity of the entire story. We're really excited by the variety of programming that's going on really across the canal system. Of course, it's being led by our own New York State Canal Corporation, which is part of the Power Authority in New York State and runs the entire canal system, including maintenance and upkeep of the 524

miles that exist, the 57 locks, the 16 lift bridges. So they are tasked with maintenance and upkeep, keeping the canal going, keeping this historic treasure operable in New York State. But they have partners in this commemoration. There is also the Erie Canal Way National Heritage corridor, which is a federal creation of Congress that really the breadth of the Erie Canal is a historic heritage area, and this organization does a lot of work around the history and heritage of the Erie Canal, working with communities on their history that surround the Erie Canal, and they are doing a lot of work commemorating this bicentennial in 2025 to learn more about what's going on around the state. Related to this commemoration, we spoke with New York State Canal Corporation director, Brian Stratton.

Brian Stratton:

Well, good afternoon, Devin. I'm Brian Stratton. I am the director of the New York State Canal Corporation. The Canal Corporation was formed in the early 90s out of legislation that was created

by Governor Mario Cuomo. Brought the canal out of the working world out of the Department of Transportation and established it as a recreational based mission. And from that, the Canal Corporation was formed, and we were placed under the New York State Thruway Authority initially, and then through the years. In the end of 2016 and 2017 we're now under the New York Power Authority. So our mission is to really maintain this waterway, 524 four miles long, four different canals, 57 locks, the trails and all sorts of infrastructure along there. And it's an old system, even though we're talking about 200 years of the canal when it when it began in 1825, the final phase, or the or the most recent phase, is really the New York State Barge Canal, which opened up in 1918 so this is what we do, and although it's largely a recreational mission. It's still, it's we still haul freight to from time to time, not like we used to, not what it was made for, or at the capacity. But it's certainly there or the car goes that need to go.

Well, we've been doing this for a long, long time. We really started in 2020, 2017 and all of the, all of the 200 logos that you see go back to that year because we began celebrating and really, really, really recognizing when it was the 200th anniversary of the construction starting, which began in 1817, but over the last year, year and a half, we've really begun to take up, take up speed. And Governor Hochul announced the formation of the Erie Canal Bicentennial commission in July of 2024, and we got underway very, very quickly. I have the honor of serving as the co-chair of that organization, along with the first gentleman, Bill Hochul and three of the governor's cabinet members, which would include Secretary of State, Mosley, Empire State Development, President Knight Hope Knight and New York State Parks and Rec recreation and historic preservation Commissioner Randy Simons along with me, and we are meeting monthly and really planning a whole robust series. But we have a lot of a lot of partners along the way.

 So there are many canal stakeholders throughout the system that are also joining us, and so it's not incumbent upon us as a singular organization, but we're sort of the band leader and making sure that we keep our fingers on the pulse of all of the things that are that, that are going on. And it's almost, almost, almost dizzying to keep track of them all, because there's so many great things, and everybody's extremely excited. And that was one of the things that makes it very, very fun. There's never a never a boring day. There's always lots to do. And when you add to that mix infrastructure problems and rain, which is now preventing the canal from opening as we had hoped, parts of it are open, but we want the whole thing open, and I'm sure Mother Nature will abide and we'll get it open eventually.

Lauren:

One of the most exciting projects that canal Corp has been working on is the recreation of the canal packet boat the Seneca chief, which was the boat that DeWitt Clinton traveled on along the Erie Canal back in its opening in 1825.

Brian Stratton:

Well, this is one of my favorite projects, so I'm glad that you've, you know, gotten to this quickly. Yeah, the Seneca chief is a full-scale replica of Governor DeWitt Clinton's packet line boat as we know it to to have been in 1825, full scale. It was built by the Buffalo Maritime Center, probably over the last three to four years. And it is a community boat building, boat building project. There have been more hands on this boat than probably any other, any other project that that they've done, and I'm proud to say that I have even planed a few planks. Thank goodness they've able to cover over my errors with paint and caulking, but, but it's a beautiful boat, and it's been under construction. Was under construction probably from 2020 through 2024, when it was rolled, rolled out of the barn last year.

It's the exact length and width of the packet line boat that that the Buffalo Maritime Center knows Governor DeWitt Clinton sailed on and he left the commercial slip on October 26 1825 he arrived in New York maybe eight days later, and the actual wedding of the waters took place on November 4,

1825 but we marked his departure out of the buffalo harbor as the anniversary, and it was a grand affair, and certainly the buffalo maritime center knows all of those facts.

This was really the brainchild of Dr John Montague, who is the president emeritus of the Buffalo Maritime Center. And I remember I was at a Erie Canal way National Heritage corridor board meeting in Buffalo, probably in 2018 when he first came to so the Commission said, you know, we have the plans. We can make this boat. We just need the money, of course. And I just thought it was, it was the most fascinating thing, of course, you're always thinking about, you know, okay, it's 2018 we need it by 2025. Let's get the money and let's build it. And fortunately enough, they, they secured a private donor with a very generous donation, but also a lot of public donors too. And I think that through the Canal Corporation, through the Regional Economic Development Councils, we have three or four grants in there totaling maybe $600,000 that went in over several years. And those are matching funds that the that the maritime center matches dollar for dollar in kind or in cash. I'm not exactly sure of what the final figure was in terms of cost, what it cost to build, but it is a beautiful boat. It has been out on the water since it rolled out of the shed, and a very public, exciting ceremony that you know, photos everywhere it has sailed along the canal.

It actually floats. It is very happy that that worked out, but it's, but it, but it's a wooden boat. And any wooden boat takes on a little a little bit of water, does Governor Clinton's did? Yeah. So it has been touring, and they are getting ready to launch a very exciting tour to pay tribute to Governor Clinton's 1825, journey. And the Seneca chief is scheduled to depart from Buffalo as part of the world canals Conference, which is going to be taking place there September 21 through 25th and on September 24 they're going to launch the Seneca chief and a very public ceremony from canal site not far from where Governor first shoved off, and it will embark on a month long journey with 28 stops along the canal. And the communities are extremely excited and getting ready, and there's going to be a lot of a lot of fanfare, a lot of ceremony, education.

People be able to find out about what the Seneca chief did, and what it was like to live and sleep on a boat. These were supposed to be luxury items, but everybody slept in the same space. And you had women's quarters, men's quarters, you had you had mules or donkeys. You had horses too. I don't think they brought those on board, not this particular boat, but there was also cargo too. So we're very excited about it, and we have lots of conversations, almost on a daily basis with the maritime center, working out how we can bring stakeholders in and make it a very exciting experience.

Devin:

one of the interesting things about the modern canal system is how it's changed over time. Certainly, it was built as a transportation corridor for goods, mostly, and at some extent, people traveled along the canal. But nowadays it's mostly recreation. Of course, there's boaters and those who are traveling along the canal system and using the locks with their boats and all of that, that exciting kind of traditional way of using the canal. But the canal is also a multi modal recreation corridor in many ways. There's bike trails, there's the Empire State trail that goes the length of the Erie Canal, and beyond a walking trail. There's towns and villages along the canal system that have recreation areas that are nearby to the canal, whether it's parks or trails or other ways of enjoying the outdoors. The New York canal system has really become this 524 mile recreation experience for people of all ages.

Brian Strattion:

One of the things that we've done recently through one of the original, statutorily created bodies within the Canal Corporation is called the canal rec recreation way Commission, which really guides the recreational mission of the canal. And these are appointees by the by the governor, by the Senate, by the the the assembly and agency representatives. And they convene at least four times a year and really guide everything that we're doing to make sure that the canal is a world class rec recreation way. And when the Canal Corporation was formed in 1992 the canal recreation way plan was first put into place, saying, how do we want the canal to look? How can we maximize this fantastic infrastructure that was built to haul freight on a very large scale? How can we make it a more human scaled, individual, individually sized recreational corridor Blueprint was put into place with the first canal recreation way plan, which was finalized in 1995 and that really is, you know, that's, that's a long time ago. So third, 30 years old. We have through the last year, worked very, very hard through public input, through public information sessions, outreach and the input of more than 500 persons across the system.

Stakeholders in every region of the canal have updated the canal recreation way plan looking forward, and it's called the canal 2050 plan, and it really looks forward to what we want the canal to be, and what our what our guiding light ought to be, to make sure that the canal grows and evolves and continues to be this great economic system. And I don't know that I've that I have mentioned it, but the economic impact of the canal statewide is more than $400 million annually. So that's a tremendous economic engine. It's great. And sometimes we don't see all of that here in the local Albany capital region, but the further west you go, where the canal is more central to the main street of our communities, whether it's in Syracuse, Rochester Utica, you really see how important it is and how essential it is.

Lauren:

Two of the most prominent travelers on the canal system in New York are Governor Hochul and the first gentleman, William Hochul Jr, who have traveled almost every mile along the canals in New York State, except for the Oswego Canal, which they plan to travel sometime soon, we were able to speak to the first gentleman who is also the co-chair of the Erie Canal Bicentennial commission about what he loves most about the canal.

William J. Hochul, Jr:

Well, first of all, thank you for having me, Devin, and to all the listeners out there you are going to be so impressed with the summer we have scheduled to commemorate the very important bicentennial of the Erie Canal. I'm the co chairman, along with the Canal Corporation director, Brian Stratton, and we have an entire schedule and calendar of events that we've been building out along with the communities that are touched and impacted by the Erie Canal, such an experience for people that are boating enthusiasts to experience the canal the way the canal was designed and then grew over the last 200 years. Really included different towns about every 10 miles or so, which is about the distance that a mule team could go. And in each of these towns, people that visit by the canal or even by car, for that matter, or bike, they will find, in some ways a step back in history, 200 year old history you will see in many of these communities, architecture from that period. You will see little shops, little restaurants, gazebos, museums of different type.

But then you will also experience personalities that each community has developed over the 200 years. And I think what's important for all the listeners to realize, if they haven't been on the canal lately, is boating is just one of any number of ways to experience a canal. There is a bike path, for example, that goes almost the entire length from Lockport, even before Lockport, but from Lockport to Albany and then up and down the Hudson River and into Lake Champlain. There's different ways that bikers can either be literally next to the canal or within a very short pedal from the canal, there's paddle boaters that experience the canal, kayakers. There's people that hike and again, you can also drive to these different communities. But as a boater, if you don't happen to have your own boat, there's opportunities for people to rent packet boats. These are boats that are in many ways, replicas of the canal boats that made the journey during the heyday of the canal, but they're now fully motorized, fully equipped, and on some of our journeys, the Governor and I have met people that are from Europe, from different parts of the country, because they recognize that what we have here in New York is really unique to any place else in North America, And in some ways it's unique to any other canal system in the world. So that's what we have right here in New York, and that's what the listeners should hould really be mindful of as we head into the 200th anniversary of it.

Well, there's nothing like going into one of the small towns that maybe you heard about or you saw on a map once upon a time, and just experiencing it, either by boat and parking your boat or by a car or your bicycle if you want to do a longer trip by bike, these communities are just so wonderful, and as I reflect back on some of our happiest moments, It was the surprises that we would find in different communities. There are museums, for example, that the general public, and certainly I put myself in this category, had never heard about. There's a really a world class train museum, for example in one of the communities, and my wife and I just happened to stop in and see this wonderful exhibit of cranes then and all the architecture that went into building this complicated system. And I will name drop in that case, that's in Medina, New York. And then again, as you're going along the canal system, you might find yourself visiting Seneca Falls for another example, and so many people rightly credit it as the birthplace of the women's movement, women's right to vote. Of course, conventions were held there, but women's suffrage began there. But beyond that, there's the bridge from It's A Wonderful Life, and it was really the inspiration many think, for that particular movie that all of us watch over Christmas, and all of these communities are just so wonderful and and when you are traveling at canal pace again, whether it's a hike, whether it's a bike or whether it's a boat, you just Find yourself slowing down from some of the rush or the  activity that's at the two big Terminus is of the canal, obviously Buffalo, big city, New York City, one of the world's largest and one of the world's most important cities, but along the way, it's just such a refreshing and in its own way, energizing experience. I can't be a larger fan for everything that canal and the communities have to offer you.

Lauren:

So Devin, both of us grew up in upstate New York, you in the western part of the state, and myself in the eastern part. But I remember as a child visiting sites along the canals. I was a Girl Scout growing up, and remember that they, every year had an event where you could walk along the canal. And I remember visiting Schoharie crossing, which is a state park site where they have the remnants of one of the old aqueducts along the canal, which I always remember thinking was so cool, both for the engineering feat, but you know also what it's left behind on the landscape. And they also have a recreated canal store where you can kind of learn about why it was so important to have the canal go through your community, and what that could mean for economic development. And of course, you know, being the Saratoga County Historian, we have two very important canals. Not only is the Erie Canal important to the southern part of our county, but the Champlain canal runs north, south, along our eastern border, and certainly influenced the way that the county developed in the 19th century, and most notably, perhaps in the recent past. We have canal Fest in Waterford, which is a yearly celebration of the canal. It happens on opening weekend of the canal. Well, usually, except for in years like this, when we have extremely high water. But even though they couldn't open this part of the canal, the celebration still went on. And I think it shows the importance that the canal still has 200 years later, both in remembering the history of the canal, but also in the ways that we've shown adaptive reuse of the tow paths as walking paths and bike paths, in encouraging people to use the canal with kayaks, and in ways that we can preserve the canal and have historic tours along the canal, so that 50 years from now, when it's the 250th anniversary of the Erie Canal, we still have something to celebrate, and we still have places where we can go and learn about the history and continue to use it as a recreational place as well.

Devin:

Absolutely true. And as you mentioned, I grew up in Western New York, or at least farther west than Albany. It's debatable whether where I grew up is actually western New York or more central western New York or the Finger Lakes. But anyway, I grew up in the town of Wayland, which isn't directly on the Erie Canal, but it's not far from it, and it doesn't take much, and it doesn't take long to find evidence of the canal system, either historically or still there today with the Erie Canal, but to also see the direct economic and social impact of the canal in that part of the state, in Western New York. So many of these towns and cities are in existence because of the canal. As it as it opened and transportation began to take place, it transformed the landscape, physically and environmentally and economically and socially by bringing more and more people to Central and Western New York and really opening it up to the rest of the world, in many cases. So yeah, the canal was never far, physically from where I was growing up, and it also wasn't far as far as the historical importance of it in these communities throughout New York State. You mentioned canal Fest in Waterford, which is a great annual event. But New York is also extremely fortunate to be hosting the World canals conference in Buffalo New York, September 21 through the 25th and this is a big deal. The World canal conference is exactly what it says it is. It's an international conference that brings together canal historians and enthusiasts, those who are interested in the mechanics of the canal, together with organizations and government entities like Canal Corporation that operate canals today. And these people and these organizations are from all around the world in countries that continue to have canals and operate them. And this conference moves around the world. It is in a different place every year, and for the significance and for the birthday celebration of the Erie Canal, it's in New York State in 2025.

Brian Stratton:

You asked about events? Yes, let's talk about partners. Is the Erie Canal National Heritage corridor, yep, and working with them, we have a interactive calendar of Bicentennial events. It grows every single day. And if you were to log on to Erie Canal way dot, O, R, G, forward slash events, the event calendar will come up. It's searchable by region, by activity, by month, by everything you like to do. There's more than 100 I'm sure there's well over one 100 that was as of two weeks ago. It's interactive, so every community can make sure they can add their event to the growing list. And I know that there are many communities that are still planning events. They may not be on there. So please check out the Erie Canal way calendar of Bicentennial events. You'll find something that's going on near you all summer long and into the fall. And one of the things we're also trying to do through the Bicentennial commission is to get our agency partners to get in on this wonderful milestone that our state is

marking in 2025 and the New York State Lottery is coming forward in a big way, and I can't take the wrapper off of that yet, but they're very excited to have a lottery game that's coming this summer that's going to help commemorate 200 years of the Erie Canal. That's great, and it's a lot of fun, and it's a lot of a lot of money too. So we're going to look forward to hearing more about that. I've probably said too much about that. And the Albany Symphony Orchestra is also going to be playing with us. They helped to start the bicentennial in 2017 they are back. They are traveling along four or five community concerts, five destinations along the canal. It's going to be wonderful. And we're going to celebrate that. These are canal side concerts. That's wonderful. We also have Stewart shops, who is well known here,

has come up with a bicentennial ice cream flavor perfect, and that's actually on sale now at your local Stewart shops. The name of that flavor is minted in 1825, a little idea of what the flavor is. And that is a we had an internal competition through the Canal Corporation and the Power Authority employees what the flavor name should be, and it was chosen last month. And we've been eating a lot of ice cream. That's, hey, I wish I had that. I wish we did something like that. So let's, let's get everybody out to Stewart’s shops. So, you know, even if you can't get to one of these wonderful events, or by some way, you can't make it to the world canals conference in September, you can go to your Stewart shop and have an ice cream cone and say you're doing your part to mark the 200th anniversary of the opening of Erie Canal.

On this episode of the podcast, Devin and Lauren were able to attend the unveiling of the brand-new Garnet Douglass Baltimore historical marker at the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) in Troy along with Bill Pomeroy himself. Garnet Douglass Baltimore was the first African American graduate of RPI and went on to a long and very successful career as a civil and landscape engineer.

Interviewees: Dr. La Tasha A. Brown, Director of Community Relations at RPI

Unveiling Ceremony Speakers: Bill Pomeroy, founder of the William G. Pomeroy Foundation and Dr. Martin A. Schmidt, President of RPI

Marker of Focus: Garnet Baltimore, Rensselaer County

Devin Lander and Lauren Roberts by the Garnet Baltimore marker. Photo courtesy of Lauren Roberts.

Garnet Douglass Baltimore. Image courtesy of the Hart Cluett Museum

William G. Pomeroy speaking at the Garnet Douglass marker dedication, April 15, 2025. Photo courtesy of Lauren Roberts.

William G. Pomeroy speaking at the Garnet Douglass marker dedication, April 15, 2025. Photo courtesy of Lauren Roberts.

Kenneth Aaron, “Troy Street Paved with Family Pride,” Albany Times Union, February 11, 2021.

RPI Alumni Hall of Fame.

“Garnet Douglass Baltimore, 1859-1946,” The Cultural Landscape Foundation.

“Garnet Douglass Baltimore,” Black Past.

Suzanne Spellen, “Garnet Douglass Baltimore: Troy’s Landscape Master,” New York Almanac.

“The History of Oakwood Cemetery,” Oakwood Cemetery.

Hart Cluett Museum, Educator Resources

Devin & Lauren

Welcome to a New York Minute in History. I'm Devin lander, the New York State historian, and I'm Lauren Roberts, the historian for Saratoga County.

Lauren Roberts:

On this month's episode, we're taking you to a brand new historic marker located at one oh 5/8 Street in the city of Troy, which is part of Rensselaer County. The sign is located at the top of an elaborate granite staircase known as the approach, which connects the city of Troy to Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, better known as RPI. And the text reads, Garnett, Baltimore first black RPI graduate class of 1881 lifelong Troy resident, civil engineer who designed Prospect Park and parts of Oakwood Cemetery, William G Pomeroy foundation. 2025.

Now many of our listeners who are not from the Troy area may have heard of RPI, but they probably haven't heard the name Garnet Baltimore. So let's start off with talking a little bit about who he was and how he came to be the first black graduate at RPI.

Devin Lander:

Well, let's start with his name, Garnett, Douglas, Baltimore. So he was from a very prominent African American, free black family in Troy. His father, Peter was a barber and also very active in community life in the city. He was also a member of the Underground Railroad and was an abolitionist, of course, and very involved with several of the most prominent abolitionists in the state and nation at the time, including Henry Highland Garnet, who was a legendary preacher and an abolitionist based in Troy at the time, and also was associated with Frederick Douglass. So that's where we get the name Garnet Douglas Baltimore. He's named after Henry Highland Garnet and Frederick Douglass. And even going farther back, his grandfather, Samuel Baltimore, was born enslaved and sought his freedom as a soldier in the American Revolution. He was promised to be free if he had fought on the side of the Americans during the revolution. Unfortunately, after the war, he was denied his freedom by his master or owner at the time, and so he escaped and settled in Troy, which is how the Baltimore family came to the area. Now Garnet, Baltimore was born on Eighth Street, so not far from where the marker is, and right in front of the RPI campus, actually at 160 8th street in 1859 he was born, and he again, was born into a prominent African American family that really valued education and valued the ability of education to lift up a person and allow them to pursue a career and a life on their own.

Lauren:

Garnett studied at the William rich school and then went to Troy Academy, where he and his brother were the first black students accepted there. He had great grades, and because of the family's connections with prominent people around Troy, he was able to gain acceptance into RPI in 1870 seven's freshman class, and that's how he became the first black graduate in the year 1881 which then led to an amazing career as a civil engineer, and he remained in Troy for the rest of his life.

Devin:

One of the things about Garnett that we've learned is that beyond being, you know, the first African American RPI engineering graduate in 1881 was the fact that his career was long and varied, and evidence suggests that he received his first job the day after getting his engineering degree from RPI. And so that started a career in which he worked on a variety of projects around the area and around the state, including parts of the Erie Canal, the Oswego Canal bridges, other types of civil engineering projects like that. Now we were fortunate to go to the unveiling ceremony for the garnet Douglas Baltimore marker. And this entire project, the work, the research that was done to apply for the marker and to receive a marker from the Pomeroy foundation. Was done by Dr Latasha Brown at RPI, and we had the opportunity to speak with her after the event.

Dr. La Tasha Brown

My name is Dr La Tasha Brown, and it's my pleasure to be here. I have a PhD from the University of Warwick in Coventry, England, in comparative cultural studies from there, I Well, prior to that, I should say I have a master's degree in African New World Studies from Florida International University down in Miami, Florida, which is now African and African Diaspora Studies. That changed a couple of years ago. My undergrad is from bachelor's degree in history, minor in English, lit, from St Lawrence University in Canton, New York. So I've had quite a bit of experience up and down the East Coast in terms of educational development, and then I did a bit of study abroad in the Caribbean at the University of the West Indies. So throughout my career, I've had the privilege of learning and working across the US, the Caribbean and the UK. So I bring a particular perspective that is global to the work that I do right now at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute as the Director of Community Relations within the Office of Community Relations and Communications.

Devin:

Alright, well, let's, let's talk about, a little bit about Garnett Douglas, Baltimore. When did you first become aware of Garnett Douglas, Baltimore and how did that whole interest that you have start?

La Tasha:

Yes, I started at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute back in February of 2022 I was the Director of the Office of Multicultural Programs at the time, and everyone was talking about the first African American to graduate from RPI, Garnett, Douglas, Baltimore. And I'm like, Oh, okay. Neat. You know most institutions has the first African American. What year did he graduate? Most people did not know oh. And I was just like, oh. And I was just like, Okay, I need to find this out, just because it's the first and knowing that RPI has been around for quite some time, since 1824 which we just celebrated the Bicentennial, so I really wanted to sort of position him within sort of that historical moment. And so 1824 you know, RPI is founded, and then he graduates in 1881 and I was just like, This is amazing, regardless of the fact of, you know, putting the title or the adjective of him being a trailblazer, I'm like, that is just really interesting when you're thinking about the development of America and, you know, upstate New York, and him working in a space that is not heavily filled with African Americans, right? And so that was like the journey he was well connected. And I should say that his father was well connected. His father was part of the Underground Railroad. And so having the opportunity to be around sort of intellectuals, at the time, black and white, being around affluent people. Because, you know, Troy, New York, my understanding, was filled with billionaires, right? And so he had the opportunity to excel, but also be very much in the midst of change and creating opportunities for a lot of people, economically as well as socially. What was neat about him, and just in terms of his namesake, is that he was given the name after Reverend Highland Garnet Douglas. And so if you think about these two individuals that carry such significance within American history, you have to expect for him to be brilliant in whatever he attaches himself to. He went on to the William Ridge school for colored children in Troy. And then from there, he went to the Troy Academy, where he was there for five years with his younger brother. And then he was thinking about Harvard University. And then he decided to focus on STEM as we call it now, and apply to RPI. And so that started his journey, but thinking about physically where he was in Troy, he was right on 8th street, and so RPI was right above so every day, he was engaging with that academic space very intentionally, but also just being a passer by the education institution as it was being built out. The suspicion is that there was other African Americans, and I say other for small number, right? This is class size for 1881 was only 17. So there might have been one or two other individuals of African descent. We would know that they would be male as opposed to female, but we don't have that definitive answer as of yet. But you know, you know more work is to be done on his life.

I wanted the marker just to sort of signify, not so much that he went to RPI, but to really mark the year, because everybody knew his name, you know, well known on campus at RPI, well known in the community, but to have that historical date that people can pass by and see constantly that was really important to have it at the approach that really came later. But with regards to the foundation and the process, I was concerned about what region I was located in, right? So when is the deadline? Because I was already going into the archives at RPI and looking at the various maps, and then going down to the, looking at their materials, looking at the materials online, but I didn't have a sense of what was his story, and so there was a lot of conversations that I was having with people that were intimately connected to his journey, that had documented in various ways, whether it's for political speeches, for the, you know, the various presidents, or just kind of folklore in the community.

We had a Juneteenth event back in June of 2022 and it was a localized version that was to celebrate Garnet Baltimore, and it was at that moment I was just like, this would be a really good idea to have a historical marker for him. And so I went onto the website, I missed the deadline, and then I was just like, Okay, let me get this started. What is needed in terms of the primary and secondary sources. So I started to do a deeper dive in the archives at RPI, and having conversations with Jennifer and Tammy, who were the archivists at the time. And then, you know, it was everything from his academic records to what was he involved with in school in terms of extracurricular activities, because that shaped his world view. Who else was in the class, who was on the Board of Trustees? Because all of this is being shaped by the fact that he was the first How did he get into this space, right? You know, what was the political connection to the community and the capital region at large? And then knowing that his father was an affluent person in terms of, not just, you know, financial means, but also political connection that played a role. But then I also wanted to know, did he have any writings for himself, right? And he didn't. There was a lot of newspaper clippings that I was able to come across up and down the country of him visiting Ian. There's quite a bit in black newspapers announcing his visit, for obvious reasons, right? And then there was just a series of committees and councils that he was a part of in terms of being part of the community and volunteering, not just with RPI and the alumni network, just but beyond that. And then I realized I needed to have his birth certificate, his death certificate, and then going down to Troy and getting those records, and then looking at the records of where exactly was his house, because that was the big challenge. Was it on the side of RPI? Did RPI, you know, do they now own that property, or is it owned by the city? Because originally it wasn't going to be a marker just for him. Am, but it was a marker at the location of where his house was located. And then I had a lot of conversations with Christy at the Pomeroy Foundation, and she's just like, if there's not a stone or anything left, you can't put the marker there. And so it was a series of brainstorming like, so what is the real sort of draw between the campus, remembering him and the community, and then you have Prospect Park, Oakwood Cemetery, and then he's a true Trojan. And so it just seems fitting to have it at the approach, and then the history of the approach and the Rubin foundation, it just all came together

about a year later, because, again, I missed the deadline, and then you have another job, though,

I had another job, right? But to me, it was the process of utilizing the skills that I acquired, you know, as a result of getting my PhD, and then also not just looking at the race component, but like the cultural impact. How was he instrumental in creating community? And he was very much involved in community building and community change and providing access through his work as a as an engineer, and so that that was the process. And then I think it was November, the beginning and though the end of November, beginning of December, I got noticed that, you know, I was awarded the Pomeroy historical market grant, terribly excited.

And then we had to figure out what was the proper wording, and that is where the challenge comes in, because it's a small space, and it's not a poem, right? And so you want to be as concrete in terms of delivery of the words, but also as impactful, because you know that people are going to see this for a really a long time, and this is possibly their first touch point into doing a deeper dive, not just into gardening deep Baltimore, but Oakwood cemetery, RPI, Troy. And then it opens up a bigger space to go down a rabbit hole of just knowledge and time and space, and so it's lovely to know that the marker is up at the approach. And that is not just an RPI experience, but it's a community experience.

Devin:

But I'm curious about so some of the logistics stuff with all of this, I know can be complex.

With placing a marker in certain spots, was there a difficulty in placing it where it is now on the approach?

La Tasha Brown

It wasn't smooth sailing. It was a process, for sure. It's figuring out the foot traffic, right? Yeah. Logistics is, you know, who's gonna see this, you know, are we just looking at it from the standpoint of vehicles passing by? Are they gonna actually slow down? Not too long ago, RPI put in a crosswalk, and so that was the perfect locations you would, you know, travel up or down the approach, but more so traveling up the approach, and where the mark is located is right at the crosswalk, so you have to press the button and wait, and as you're waiting, you're now reading.

And so that allows for not just the individuals that's standing at the cross walk to cross the street, but it also allows for the vehicle, the person's in the vehicle to then look at the marker themselves, because it's big enough for you to take a peek. And if you're really curious, you can pull over and park safely and get out and read the marker.

Lauren:

One of the attendees at the unveiling ceremony for the Garnett Baltimore marker was Bill Pomeroy, who is the founder of the William G Pomeroy Foundation, and also a graduate of RPI from the class of 1966.  He was invited to give remarks about the Garnett Baltimore marker located at his alma mater.

Bill Pomeroy:

Thank you, folks, and I'm excited to be here today to celebrate the life and the legacy of Garnet Douglas Baltimore, an accomplished engineer, landscape designer and RPI first graduate. We're marking that legacy literally with this new historic marker funded by the foundation I started 20 some years ago. That foundation, like many, many meaningful things came from a deeply personal place. My time at RPI from 1962 to 1966 taught me a lot about perseverance, problem solving and purpose, but it was a unexpected leukemia diagnosis, AML, that gave me clarity on how I wanted to give back. With the odds stacked against me, I set out to create something that could help others. Long after I was gone, I focused first on expanding the bone marrow registry, especially for underrepresented communities. The goal give more patients like me a shot at a life saving donor match, and I'm proud to say that our work has helped facilitate over 300 bone marrow transplants.

Thank you very much. Later, my interest in history took hold, and our Foundation began helping communities across the country uncover and celebrate their local histories. As a boy, my dad took me on his sales calls and frequently stopped at historic sites to learn more about them, and I guess that's where the bug got planted in my head. And I continue now with markers.

So when I learned that someone had proposed a marker for Garnett, Baltimore and on the approach, no less, you know the one I remember as an ankle breaker from 1962, I was thrilled. It's a perfect spot. And thank you, Dr Brown for thoroughly documenting the facts for the marker and the back story.  Baltimore lived his whole life right here in Troy, likely right down here, close to where the marker is today. The approach physically and symbolically connects the city of Troy to RPI. What better place to celebrate someone who embodied both and Garnet Baltimore is not just celebrated here, his influence, you know, really goes further than here. He helped design Oakwood Cemetery. His grandfather, Samuel Baltimore, a revolutionary war Patriot is buried in Troy's Mount Ida cemetery. Garnet likely became aware from family lore of patriots buried in both places, and we're currently developing a new marker with the sons of the American Revolution to honor 22 known patriots interned at Oakwood.

We're also working on a marker for Mud Lock on the Oswego canal, where Baltimore oversaw a challenging expansion project in the mud. He'll be recognized by name when that marker is installed later on this year.

All of this makes me especially proud to now see a marker here that ties him firmly and forever to RPI and the city of Troy. This marker will spark curiosities and passers by, pride in the community and the inspiration of future generations who, like Baltimore, use their talents to make a lasting impact as someone who shares his own whose own story was shaped by this place. It's an honor to share in this moment of pride for your community, and I want to thank you for the opportunity.

Devin:

You now, much like one of his family's friends, Frederick Douglass, who, for his second marriage, married a white woman, Garnet Douglas Baltimore also married a white woman named Mary Lane, who he met doing a job on Long Island. Her family originated from Long Island, but they moved back to Troy to help further his career and keep his career going. And she was a strong advocate, not only for equality for African American people, but also for women. She was known as a suffragist, and when we spoke to Dr Brown, she talked about how she was able to track down Mary Lane's family and actually have representation from that family at the unveiling event.

La Tasha Brown:

I reached out back in I want to say it was 2016 if you look on the archival website for RPI, there was a thread of discussions that were going on, and there was a woman, she said that she was a descendant of Garnet Baltimore, like a great, great grandniece. And so I did a deep dive and Googling and putting in her name in various websites and forums, and then even sending a follow up to that thread.

I presume she's still alive. She's about 66 and I've called three different four different emails were available. I presume that they are still members of the family that are alive, but I don't have exact evidence to prove that, obviously, with the Mary Lane family, they were here yesterday, and that is the Charles Marder, who is the nephew, the great, great, great grand nephew of Mary lane. And I found him through having conversations with several people, and then coming across his mother's announcement of her death, yes. And so I read that, and then they had a listing of him, along with his children and his, you know, extended family members. And then I did a deeper dive on a Sunday afternoon. I would never, you know, forget that I'm sending out emails, looking at LinkedIn profiles websites and reading additional articles. So I got in contact with several of individuals via email, and then I was hoping that somebody was going to reply back, but I didn't know how it was going to be received, right, right? Right? And so few emails bounced back, saying that their mailboxes were full. And I was just like, all and then then one came, I want to say, maybe two weeks later.

And so he replied back. And just like, this is really interesting. I'm like, indeed is interesting. And then he was telling me that he went to Bennington, Bennington College, okay? And Vermont, so he used to pass through the area right to go back down to Long Island, okay? And so he was familiar, um, within reason, yeah, of RPI. Well, he knew RPI, but the area. And then he paused a bit, and then he reached out to the local librarian, archivist, and they did a little bit of research, and then they came back and just like, let's talk a little bit more. And so I met Charles maybe three weeks ago, two and a half weeks ago, via WebEx, and we had our discussion, and sort of finalizing the details of this event, and talking about RPI and Mary Lane and what information is available. And then I reached out further to the librarian down on Long Island, and again, there is no primary information from them, right? Everything else is just secondary. And so I was taking these, these puzzle pieces, and putting them together, and they weren't aware that she left. So they were being introduced to her and to Garnet Douglas Baltimore yesterday. But clearly they did a little bit of research prior to our event, my event yesterday, but this was their introduction to that side of their family.

Charles Marder:

Thank you, Dr Brown, I really appreciate it. If it weren't for you, we wouldn't be here. You literally dug us up, or rather, figuratively dug us up. I will be careful when I say here, talk about cemeteries, but thank you.

That's I'm here. You know why I'm here, but I don't know, or you know how I'm here, but why I'm so excited to be here is because I am a landscape design, horticultural person that been doing for 50 years with my wife and later on, my son, Silas, who's right over here. It took him a little while,

but he's come a long way. And I've also worked on Prospect Park in Brooklyn Central Park in New York City, museum decommissioning Philip Johnson's Museum of Modern Art about 10 years ago, when they renovated the place, took them out to the Botanical Garden. I've decommissioned Linden circle and the botanical garden. I have built some things. I'm not just a decommissioner, but believe me, we moved giant trees. We moved one today to Connecticut with a police escort. It was a valuable tree,

but so anyway, I have a certain sympathy or empathy, when I found out about my aunt's great my great, great great aunt's husband and so proud that he was part of the family.

Lauren:

Two of the major projects that Garnett worked on in Troy was the laying out of Prospect Park and also laying out parts of Oakwood Cemetery, which is a beautiful cemetery that Troy is well known for as part of the unveiling ceremony, attendees were treated to a tour of Oakwood Cemetery, which included mentions of several prominent people that were buried there, but also a tour through the areas that Garnet laid out, and also a stop at his grave and that of the grave of his wife, where there was a wreath laying ceremony and a local pastor gave some moving remarks about the legacy of Garnett Baltimore. In addition, we stopped back at the chapel, and on display were maps from the early 1900s that Garnet Baltimore had actually laid out and signed. His original signature was on the maps, so it was a real treat to be able to see his actual presence in the cemetery on these maps as part of their archives.

Devin:

We've talked on this episode about how Garnet Douglas Baltimore was a trailblazer, first African American civil engineer, graduate of RPI, first graduate from other schools in the area, and also a very active and prominent Civil Engineer for his whole career, working on projects around the state and around the area. But he really was a Trojan. He was a proud resident of Troy, New York. He was very active, along with his wife, Mary Lane, in local community events and community works beyond his career, as I noted, Garnett was born on Eighth Street and Troy, and in fact, he died in the exact same house he was born in. He died in 1946 he was 87 years old, and he was active as an engineer right up until the end of his life. So the location of the marker could not be better. It's located on Eighth Street, as we said, which has also been renamed Garnett Douglas, Baltimore Street in Troy. And it's on the approach, which is this arched concrete walkway and stairs that connects RPI campus to the city of Troy, crosses Eighth Street and goes down the hill into the city itself. And no better place could have been picked to honor the legacy of Garnett Douglas Baltimore, who was himself, a connection between the Institute and the city RPI, President Martin Schmidt reflected on this connection at the unveiling ceremony.

Martin Schmidt:

It's a real pleasure to be here. We're gathering, of course, to unveil a significant tribute, a New York state historical marker dedicated to the pioneering spirit and lasting impact of Garnet Douglas Baltimore, and it's made possible by the William G Pomeroy Foundation, and I'm deeply grateful that they're present with us today. Wonderful to see fellow alumnus, Bill Pomeroy, and just delightful. It's also special that this marker will be placed at the approach, which is a site that's deeply embedded in the history of both Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, but also the city of Troy. It's our gateway between the campus and the town.

And to that note, before I continue, I want to extend my deepest gratitude to Mayor Carmela Mantello for joining us today, we're delighted with the partnership that we have with the city on so many fronts and her continued dedication to preserving and celebrating the rich history of Troy is really inspiring. So thank you. I also want to take a moment to recognize and thank the members of the extended family of Gardner, Baltimore's wife, Mary Lane, who are here with us today. Your presence is a meaningful reminder of the lasting connections between history, family and community.

Additionally, just thanks again for to the Foundation for their incredible work in recognizing and commemorating historic figures who have shaped our community. Their mission ensures that we never forget the contributions of individuals like Garnett, Baltimore who helped lay the foundation, both literally and figuratively, of the places we call home, Garnet Douglas, Baltimore was not just a trailblazer. He was a visionary. As the first black graduate of RPI in 1881 I hadn't realized it was 100 years before I got to graduate from RPI. He forged a path in civil engineering that would leave a lasting mark on this city and beyond. His work, particularly his contributions to the design and preservation of Oakwood Cemetery remains an enduring testament to his expertise and deep connections to Troy, the city where he was born and spent his life. Baltimore's legacy as a civil engineer, landscape designer and lifelong Troy resident is a reminder of the importance of recognizing those whose work continues to shape our communities for generations. Here at RPI, we take great pride in our long and storied history of innovation and leadership in engineering science and technology, but our mission extends beyond technical achievements. We seek to make an impact in the communities we serve. Garnet, Baltimore embodied this principle, bringing his technical expertise with a profound sense of civic responsibility and the approach. The approach is a historic landmark that connects our campus with the city, and so in placing the plaque at the top of the approach, we're recognizing the bridge Baltimore created between engineering excellence and community development. This unveiling is not just about marking history. It is about learning from it. It is an opportunity for individuals of all ages to explore and appreciate the contributions of those who came before us. I hope this historic marker serves as an enduring symbol of Baltimore's remarkable achievements and inspire future generations of engineers, leaders and innovators to follow in his footsteps.

Devin:

Now Garnett was such a prominent resident of Troy that when he passed away in 1946 the Troy record, which is the local newspaper, ran a front page obituary with a photograph, and they said, quote, There was a time when he was in the thick of Municipal Affairs. He was architectural engineer at Oakwood Cemetery. He laid out Prospect Park. He was probably the greatest surveyor in the city's history. He was as much a part of Troy as the monument.

La Tasha Brown:

With Garnet D Baltimore, there is so much to still uncover about his life and providing a holistic view of who he was, I think at the moment, is very fragmented. I mean, we're getting better at looking at or positioning these puzzle pieces together, but there's just so much that can be discovered and sort of put out there for public consumption. And I think when you think about curriculum, local curriculum, and I know that you're, you know, part of that space that becomes really important when we're thinking about how young people, particularly K through 12, but specifically K through eight, can feel a connection to their lives and learning environment. And this is one example that they can say he was a trailblazer. He wasn't a trailblazer in terms of being at the forefront, and, you know, of various movements or economic development in terms of benchmarking at different periods in time, but he was at the forefront of creating change and creating community. And we always need community. So I think this would be really important to put into the curriculum on a regular basis. That sort of feeds into opening up the space of thinking about STEM and STEAM for younger individuals, particularly those of African descent. But all students.

This episode of A New York Minute in History commemorates Women’s History Month by uncovering the groundbreaking 1828 court case of Sojourner Truth, a self-emancipated Black woman who took on a white slave owner to free her young son from bondage.

Interviewees: Barbara Allen, author and Sixth-Great Granddaughter of Sojourner Truth and Taylor Bruck, Ulster County Clerk and the City of Kingston Historian

Marker of Focus: Sojourner Truth, Ulster County

Office of the Ulster County Clerk

Library of Congress

Library of Congress

Barbara Allen, Remembering Great Grandma Sojourner Truth, and Journey with Great Grandma Sojourner Truth

New York State Education Department, “Sojourner Truth’s Historic Supreme Court Documents From the New York State Archives on Display in Kingston”

New York State Archives: People vs. Solomon Gedney

Sojourner Truth, Narrative of Sojourner Truth, 1850.

Nell Irvin Painter, Sojourner Truth: A Life, A Symbol, 1996.

National Park Service: Ain’t I a Woman Lesson Plan

PBS Learning Media: Sojourner Truth: Abolitionist and Women’s Rights Activist

Consider the Source NY: Sojourner Truth's Fight for African American and Women's Rights in 19th Century New York

Follow Along:

Devin & Lauren

Welcome to A New York Minute in History. I'm Devin Lander, the New York State historian, and I'm Lauren Roberts, the historian for Saratoga County.

Lauren:

In honor of Women's History Month, we are taking a look at a marker located at 285 Wall Street in the City of Kingston, which is in Ulster County. It's just outside the Ulster County Courthouse, and the text reads, Sojourner Truth at this courthouse in 1828 the orator and anti-slavery activist successfully sued to free her son Peter from enslavement. William G Pomeroy Foundation, 2023.

Before we take a deep dive on this particular marker, I want to point out that it's not the only historic marker erected by the William G Pomeroy foundation in recognition of the life and accomplishments of Sojourner Truth. There's actually four in total. One of them is just south of Kingston in Ulster Park, which marks one of the locations where Sojourner Truth lived when she was enslaved by tavern owner Martinus Shriver. There's another one down in Cold Spring Harbor, which is out on Long Island, where she's noted for visiting for three weeks in 1843 and taking part in a temperance meeting there. The final one is located in Florence, Massachusetts, and that marker is part of the national votes for women trail, and it marks where she lived from 1844 to 1857.

It's just incredible to think that this woman who lived so long ago in the constraints of the society at the time, has Four Pomeroy markers dedicated to her accomplishments back then, and that's just William G. Pomeroy markers. There are numerous other monuments and statues and parks named after her, so it's a pretty incredible legacy that she has left behind.

Now, getting back to the marker of focus that we're talking about outside the Ulster County Courthouse in Kingston, this court case in which Sojourner Truth brought the complaint against her sons and slavers, and where she was able to win this case, the first time that an African American was able to win a court case against a white man. It's an incredible story, but I think knowing her background and her early life makes it even more incredible.

Devin:

So let's start by talking about her early life when she wasn't yet Sojourner Truth. So Sojourner Truth was born enslaved in Ulster County. We don't know the exact date. I've seen dates suggesting 1797 but we don't know 100% exactly when she was born. But she was born into enslavement. She was born into a Dutch enslavers family, essentially, and spoke Dutch as her first language, and again, was enslaved in a situation in which, although the enslavers didn't have huge numbers of slaves, they did a variety of types of work. She would have worked in the house. She would have also worked on the property outside hard labor type of work, and she was sold several times in her youth, she was actually sold as a small child to a person named John Neely for $100 along with a few sheep. And by the time she was 13 years old, she had been sold two more times and ended up enslaved under a person named John Dumont. It's interesting to think of having a young woman who had been sold so many times in her short life. Sometimes we think about that in the as happening in the south, but it also happened here in New York and as late as the 1800s and you know, there was a variety, as you mentioned Evan in the work that she had to do. And we talked a little bit about this in the Frederick Douglass episode, that there was a difference between enslaved people who were on a farm, type plantation or a state, and then moving to the city, where they had maybe some more freedom than they were used to on the state. And Isabella, which was her given name at birth, experienced this too. She mentions in her autobiography the difference between, you know, having some more freedoms once she gets to a place of where she is learning some skills in a tavern setting when she's enslaved by Martinus Shriver, but also, you know, being able to learn English, which she hadn't been able to do previously.

So she experiences a lot of different situations at a young age, even in in the state of New York.

While Isabella was enslaved by Dumont, she made a deal with him, because of the laws of gradual emancipation in New York State, all slaves would be freed in 1827, however, the deal that she made with Dumont was that if she worked hard enough, she could be released a year early in 1826 so she worked very hard, she kept up her end of the bargain, and when it came time for her to go to him and to get her freedom, he basically reneged on the deal and said, No, you can't, you have to stay until 1827, and she decided that because she had held up her end of the bargain she worked hard, that she was going to leave anyway.

She did make a point to leave in the daylight, so it wasn't as though she was running away in the middle of the night. So she woke up in the morning, in the daylight, and she walked away, and she was able to find help with the Van Wagonens, not too far away from where the Dumonts lived. And she went there and was able to stay with them. Dumont did come after her, but she refused to go back with him. And also, we should mention that she had a baby, Sophia, with her at the time, who she also took with her, although she had no choice but to leave her other children behind with the Dumonts the van Wagonens, who she had found shelter with, offered to pay Dumont cash for the rest of the year that she would have been enslaved to him, and he accepted that, and from then she was free.

Unfortunately, though, her children that she had to leave behind were not free, including Peter, who was born in and around 1818, and was about eight years old when she walked to freedom. John Dumont sold Peter to a man named Eleazer Gedney of Newberg for $20 and Eleazer Gedney, in turn, sold Peter into enslavement in Alabama, so the deep south plantation slavery, and this was the origins of this court case, and because Peter was born after 1799 he was legally no longer an enslaved person in New York State, and as a result, his sale into slavery and into the south could be challenged in court With the help of the Van Wagonens, Sojourner Truth, again at the time, known as Isabella Baumfree, brought forth a court case against Eleazer Gedney, and this case we've known about for, you know, 200 years, essentially at this point. But there was very little archival evidence, very little transcription of anything related to the case. And that was the case right up until 2022 when some of my colleagues in the New York State Archives actually discovered new court records in a major collection that they had acquired from the New York State Supreme Court. Early cases, about 5000 cubic feet of early court records.

And it is when they were going through and processing these materials that they came across this evidence, which is now been digitized and is available on the State Archives website. You can see clearly the court case and how it was brought forward. You can see the response from Eleazer Gedney. You can see how the judge ruled in the reason that it was ruled the way it was. So all of this was kind of swirling around, and this major discovery that the State Archives found in 2022 kind of at the same time Taylor Brooke, who is the city of Kingston historian, was thinking about how to acquire a Pomeroy marker to commemorate this court case, which, up to that time, did not have its own marker. We spoke with Taylor Brook about the process of acquiring the Pomeroy marker.

Taylor Bruck

My name is Taylor Bruck. I'm the City of Kingston historian and the Ulster County Clerk. I started my career at the county as the Ulster County archivist in 2016 did that for six years, and then was the deputy county clerk in charge of records management. Manage all the county's records. Here in Ulster County, our records go back to 1658, we have, like some of the oldest Dutch records here in Ulster County, since Kingston or Warwick was one of the first three original Dutch colonies. So I just really love the history of the area. Fell in love with the history of Kingston very young. My mom used to work at the Senate House, and I've been historian now for about five years here in Ulster County.

This is where Sojourner Truth was, was born and raised. And there's, there's a number of different monuments and things about her around the county, but there was nothing ever at the courthouse where her historic court case took place. You know, being the first black woman to win a court case against a white man, we felt that that was a perfect location to have a Pomeroy marker. And it actually came about three years ago when we had the affneys conference here in Kingston, the Association of public historians for New York State. And I was giving a tour of the stockade district in Uptown Kingston, talking about Sojourner Truth in her case in front of the courthouse, and there was a representative from Pomeroy there on the tour. And afterwards, they said, you know, this is a perfect spot for a Pomeroy sign.

And so we started the process, and thankfully, a few months prior to that, is when the New York State Archives found the original court case documents in the state archives that had been really missing since the case happened. So we had all this new primary source documentation, and it was exactly what Pomeroy needed to really prove that what we were saying was true. And we were fortunate enough to be awarded the grant and got the marker, and then we had to wait almost a year to install it, because there was some serious renovations going on at our historic courthouse. So just this past few months ago now, we finally installed it, and it's been fantastic. We got a lot of good feedback on it already.

Devin:

You mentioned that there were documents discovered at the State Archives here in Albany. What can you say about those documents?

Taylor Bruck:

Well, they answered a lot of questions we had, and also made a lot of different questions come up. So before those documents were found again, all we had was this recognizance note that said that Solomon Gedney had to appear in court, and we never knew what happened in court. We thought it may have been settled at, like the conference level, but there was always questions about what happened with the case, and we had no idea, until, thankfully, Jim Fauci stumbled upon them, and it that's how we know about the commissioners to perform certain duties of the Supreme Court judge and how it was actually settled with Mr. Gedney, bringing Peter back and really saying that he didn't feel he did anything wrong. We never knew what his justification was or his argument that this was all really unknown. We had Sojourners narrative. Of course, she did talk about it briefly, but never went into any detail about what, Gedney said his side of the story was, and how the court case came to an end. So it really opened, it wide open, and then set us down another path of months of research about what actually happened. Because even when you read the documents, you're like, Wait, so there wasn't a jury, it never actually went to trial. Like, how did this conclude?

And thankfully, I have to give a big shout out to our commissioner of jurors and local history buff Paul O'Neill He has a really good sense of the history of New York State courts and the New York State court system. And without his expertise in that, and really diving into the court aspect of it, I would still be very confused about how this all took place, because it's, you know, it's all in legal ease, too. If you're not a lawyer and you read these documents, it can be very confusing to know what actually happened. I'm wondering in these documents, does it name Sojourner or Isabelle at the time? Does it name her as the complainant, or is it like the DA took up this case? No, my understanding is that it names her as the complainant. But yeah, you're exactly right.

When we found these documents, we thought, Oh, the mystery is solved. And then as you dive into them, you're like, oh, it's actually more mysterious. It's more mysterious in some ways, how it ended the way that it did, and why the records ended up in Albany, because that was a question like we always had researchers coming to us in Ulster County asking us where the court case was, and for years we thought we lost it, or something like when people were looking for this in the early 1900s we knew we had the recognizance note, and we just thought, who knows the we didn't Have an archivist until 2000 so maybe sometime between 1828 and then it just was misplaced or misfiled. So it was a relief for us when they found it in Albany that when we were telling people for years we just don't have it, that turned out to be true. One of the more historic court cases we think in the country, really, it shares the foundation of like the original courthouses in Kingston and Ulster County, which the first courthouse, I believe, was built around 1661, it is seen virtually the entire history of Ulster County and a lot of our country. One of the biggest things that happened at that courthouse before the Sojourner Truth case was the New York State Constitution. So Kingston was the first capital of New York State, and the Constitution was being drafted here in Kingston, New York State Constitution. So folks like John Jay Governer Morris, George Clinton, were there drafting this New York State Constitution that included a lot of language that ended up in the United States Constitution, and it was read aloud for the first time in New York on the courthouse steps, right in front of where Sojourner Truth eventually walked Up to have her freedom granted, which is pretty remarkable. And those steps actually the original steps that Sojourner walked up. They just replaced and they took the old steps and just put them in Sojourner Truth Park, which is a state park here in Kingston, right along the river. So you can go see those, those historic steps now right along the brand new Sojourner Truth park just opened two years ago, I believe, and it's really a nice addition, but we're very proud of our courthouse here and some of the history that it's seen.

Devin:

Taylor, you're a city historian and a local government historian, and you went through the process of getting a Pomeroy marker. And what can you tell us about what that process was like and how it is working with Pomeroy, who I will know, is a funder of this program. The funder.

Taylor Bruck:

They're the absolute best we've gotten a couple markers through them now, and I find the process very fun, because you have to prove everything that you're saying. And for historians, I think that's very important, but they're rigorous in their research that is required to have them. If you see a Pomeroy sign, you can rest assured that that is a true statement that's on it, and that that really give me relief that they're not putting them up willy nilly, but they're super responsive. We went back and forth on the wording. They helped us with the wording, because for something this complicated, you do have a character limit, so it's hard to determine what's important enough to go on the marker itself. And they were able to give us really good guidance and help with the wording also, because depending on what the wording is, you have to prove different things. So that's always part of the fun of trying to draft it. It's almost like writing a poem. You have to really be clever and precise with the language, but just the responsiveness, and they're so polite, and you can tell they're always excited. It never even feels like they're at work when, when you talk to them about a marker idea, they usually jump right in, get their hands dirty and help out. I just love working with them.

Devin:

We'll make sure that gets included.

Lauren:

Taylor, can you tell us about the event of actually unveiling the marker? Did you do anything special? Did you invite people? How did that go?

Taylor Bruck:

Oh, yeah, this, was big time. We invited, you know, all of our local elected officials and so on. And our special guest Barbara Allen, who I think you'll be talking to as well. She is remarkable. I think she's seventh or eighth generation descendant of Sojourner Truth. So she came and spoke, and we were able to announce a very exciting project that was years in the making, really, but Sojourner Truth day, it is an official New York state holiday now, November 26 our local state representatives, Michelle Hinchey and Sarah Hana Shrestha, had been advocating and pushing for that after a youth group here though, YMCA farm hub youth group, a group largely of young women who, when they learned about Sojourner Truth in school, they said, this should really be a holiday. And they talked to our reps, they put in a resolution, and two years later, it went through, and we were able to announce that, actually, I think it was the day before we held our unveiling ceremony, the governor signed it into law, and that was a huge win for the whole community, really, but I shout out to those YMCA farm hub kids for getting this started, because it was really cool to see something started by I think when they started it, they were in like ninth and 10th grade, and by the time they graduated high school, they had passed a New York State law. Just remarkable work, and thankful for our state reps for listening and advocating on their behalf and getting it done.

Devin:

The first steps to freedom exhibit featuring the new bronze statue is on display in Kingston at City Hall until August 2025.

So after winning the court case, Sojourner Truth would go on to even greater accomplishments, if that's possible, and become a legendary figure in American history. First, she moved to New York City, where she spent some time, and then eventually moved on to New England and to Massachusetts, where she essentially became a preacher and an orator for the cause of the enslaved African Americans. And we have to really think about this deeply, because she could neither read nor write. She was completely illiterate, but she went on to become one of the most popular and powerful speakers against enslavement and eventually for women's rights and in the temperance movement.

 So she became one of these 19th century great orators along the same lines as what Frederick Douglass would become a couple decades later, when he gains his freedom, and again, follows a similar trajectory by moving to New York and then eventually New England, and then moving west, as our last episode discussed. So she really became a powerful orator. She also published a autobiography, obviously with the help of a ghost writer, that told her story how she walked to freedom, how she was able to free her son Peter, and then how she made the transition into a public speaker and a passionate advocate.

 It was in 1843 that she decided to change her name from her enslaved name to what we know her today as Sojourner Truth during the 19th century, probably the most famous speech that she was credited as giving took part on May 29 1851 as part of the Ohio women's rights convention in Akron, and this became known as the Ain't I a Woman, or Aren't I a Woman? Speech? Now there is some discussion among historians today as to whether or not she actually said those exact words or a version of those exact words, and one of the reasons that this is being discussed is because some of the people who were there and who really said that she meant, said these words years later, were giving Sojourner a southern accent and the way she spoke, they were kind of putting words into her mouth, and because we know that she grew up speaking Dutch in New York, she would not have had a southern accent, but irregardless, the sentiment was there, and she was advocating for the fact that men and women are equal and should be treated equally under the law.

So this became her kind of defining speech in the 19th century. She was also very good at creating her own image, similarly to Frederick Douglass, who many people suggest is the most photographed person in the 19th century, Sojourner Truth was probably a close second, and she did that to sell her image, to help support her activities as an advocate, and really controlling the image of herself and being able to profit from it, to make it so that she could continue her advocacy efforts.

Lauren:

In thinking about the legacy of Sojourner Truth in the present, it's great that we have these markers and monuments and statues to her, because her accomplishments were really remarkable for the time that she was living in as an African American woman, and we were lucky enough to be able to speak with Barbara Allen, a sixth great granddaughter of Sojourner Truth. And she explained to us what she's doing to keep moving the legacy of Sojourner Truth forward.

Barbara Allen:

My name is Barbara Allen. I am the sixth-generation granddaughter of Sojourner Truth, and probably everyone knows the story. When Sojourner walked away from slavery, she took her daughter, Sophia with her, and that is the line that my family is from, Sophia. Now, Sojourner, during her travels, she ended up in Battle Creek, Michigan, and that is where she's laid to rest at to this day. So most of my family is still here in Bell Creek, Michigan, and we honor the journey by going out and sharing her history. For me, I wrote two children's books. One of them was named Journey with Great Grandmother, and the other one is Remembering Great Grandmother. And I wrote them really to tell children about this, this wonderful woman, and what she did for all of us in history. And one of them is a story that my mom used to tell me over and over, about Sojourner. And it was amazing, because, you know, when I'm look when I'm smaller, I didn't understand just how fantastic this woman was, but as I got older, I kind of researched who she was, and so I wrote two children's book to share with other children.

Devin:

I'm curious. You're in Battle Creek, Michigan, and that's where Sojourner, you know, lived the end of her life and several decades. When did you first become aware of her origins in the Hudson Valley in New York? And maybe you can take us back to the first time that you would have come and visited the area, and what was that like as a descendant.

Barbara Allen:

That was amazing, because my mom used to tell me that she was, she was a slave in upstate New York. That's all I knew. Was the name upstate New York. And when I was a child, I used to think, where could that possibly be, you know, it just didn't resonate with me. The historian told me about Upstate New York again, but he never said Kingston to me. And when I wrote the two children's book, I think it was my first one, this young lady named Tiffany got a hold to me because she saw my Facebook, and she said, You need to come visit here. And I, and I was like, then, and she put in all the missing pieces for me. Sojourner up Kingston was upstate New York, because I didn't know I didn't know that. So the first time I came to visit, I actually was invited by, I think it's Scenic Hudson. They donated a park to Sojourner, right and I and it was Earth Day, and I think it was in me 2023, I came there for the first time. And I've been here probably five times since.

Devin:

Were you aware of the court case that she was is being commemorated on this marker, but was also a very groundbreaking court case, where were you aware of that history as well?

Barbara Allen:

Yes, I was aware of it. I was aware of it on the surface, like say, I didn't know a whole lot, but I was aware that she did sue to get her son Peter back. We didn't know that probably when I was a younger child, Ian. I had heard the name Peter, so I did know that I was there on the day that they brought the court records back, because they got lost, and then they had them, they brought them back. I was there for that as well. So it was amazing, you know, because I didn't know it was really basically two court cases gone, one to free him and one, one to get him back to his mother, and then one to free him. So it was amazing when I read some of the documents.

Battle Creek celebrates her just as much as Ulster County. And so I do read, especially during Sojourner Truth day in Black History Month. I read a lot in the local elementary schools, and one of my books I even read in the high school. The second book is more towards middle school and high school, but the first one is for more elementary children, and I read to them all the time. I read out our library, and I'll come to Kingston. I think I read at probably five schools there at one time in one day. And it was, it was amazing. So Kingston and Battle Creek both, they celebrate the journey for her time that she was there in Ulster County and for a time that she was in about in Battle Creek. So when I come to Ulster County, I feel like I'm bringing Sojourner home. I'm, I'm telling you  it's a spiritual visit for me every time.

Devin:

I can imagine.

Lauren:

Can you tell us a little bit about what the process was for you to write the actual children's book?

Well, I had known the story, you know, of course, some of the story. And the historian that taught me passed away, and he gave me a big box, well his wife did after he passed away, of all his research, a lot of his research. So I got to know Sojourner for like, two years after that, after he passed away, I just read everything that he had in there. So I got to know her more and more. And, you know, I talked to some family members about her, and I it was COVID, actually, when I wrote my first children's book, I had nothing else to do, you know, I thought, finally, I have some time to get this out of my head and get it onto paper. I just start typing I had, and I found an illustrator to illustrate all the pages, watercolor so that it looked like it was like back in history, and it was just it was beautiful.

Devin:

Sojourner Truth's historical legacy is assured and continues to this day. The emphasis on the court case came to a crescendo, really, last year, not only with the erection of the Pomeroy marker and Barbara Allen attending that event, but with the opening of the Sojourner Truth, first step to freedom exhibit, which features a bronze sculpture of Sojourner Truth, done by the renowned sculptor Trina green, it also the opening reception in September featured the documents that were discovered by the State Archives on display those archival documents, again, are available online at the New York State Archives for anyone who wants to download high resolution images and see those court cases. They are in the State Archives collection. They're not on display a lot because they are old and very fragile, but you can get a sense of what they say and their importance by taking a look at them firsthand on the Archives website, it's important for us to realize that as much as we are and should be commemorating Sojourner Truth in New York State and in Ulster County, her experiences there were not positive. She was not there by her own will, as we have seen, she had to walk away from enslavement. She had to battle for her son's freedom in the court of law in Ulster County. And it was really possibly, as a result of her experiences that she never returned to Ulster County after she left and after she moved to New York City and then eventually New England, and then eventually Battle Creek Michigan, where she spent the rest of her life.

Lauren:

One of the other things we learned about her legacy is that both the City of Kingston and Ulster County and Battle Creek Michigan work together to share the memory of Sojourner Truth, and both of those communities are doing things to make sure that her name is not forgotten, and that her accomplishments are talked about and that they help people today who may be who may be experiencing similar struggles in their own lives.

Taylor Bruck:

I would just encourage folks to stay tuned for the next Sojourner Truth Day, November 26 I think it's a state holiday. And again, the work that she did as a suffragist and an abolitionist should be celebrated statewide, not just here in Ulster or in Albany, and on November 26 really hope there are other communities that will do something for Sojourner and help get her story into schools. She's a very inspirational figure.

Barbara Allen:

She had hope. You know, she was a slave, and she still knew that there was a better life out there. And she hoped upon hope, and she did everything she could to be free. So, I see her legacy is just about hope and promise and that, that if you use your voice, you use what God has equipped you with, you can change things, you can you can make changes. And it doesn't have to be angry. It just has to be deliberate in what you're doing. And she was so deliberate and that's when I look at her, her legacy, that's what I think of. It's just hope. It gives people that hope to just get up and try again. She did that for me, if I sometimes, you know, if I have a bad time, I think about her, I think if she could do it, I definitely can pull myself back up. And I have because of her.