What if heroism isn’t about being Superman, but about setting aside cynicism to choose courage in ordinary life?

Russell welcomes his good friend Adam Kinzinger for a conversation that starts with Kingziner’s new children’s book, That’s What Heroes Do, which grew out of his experience becoming a father during one of the most turbulent stretches of modern American politics.

Russell and Adam talk candidly—as friends who’ve walked through some of the same fire together—about the strange emotional and spiritual exhaustion of the last decade. The two revisit January 6, the culture of fear inside Washington, and the strange power Trump still seems to hold over people who privately disagree with him. Adam talks openly about what it was like to watch colleagues quietly support him in private while publicly falling back in line, why he believes accountability still matters, and why proximity to power can become spiritually intoxicating. 

Adam talks about rediscovering Christianity apart from political tribalism, and why the friendships forged in difficult times have mattered more than ever. It’s a serious conversation, but also a warm one between two friends trying to figure out how to remain human in an age determined to make everybody performative, furious, and afraid. Their conversation has an undertone begging the question: how can we stay hopeful when outrage and cynicism feel easier? 

Plus: Russell shares about one of his most awkward moments: meeting President Trump at a White House event, and the exchange that followed.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

That’s What Heroes Do by Adam Kinzinger

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