The Harvard historian Jill Lepore worries that citizens have become too passive, waiting for change to happen to them. She is on a mission to revive what has become a lost art in American politics: amending the Constitution. In this conversation with David Leonhardt, an editorial director for York Times Opinion, Lepore argues that demonizing Donald Trump inevitably backfires for the left and says that turning the page on the Trump era will require not just hope but determination.

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected].

This episode of “The Opinions” was produced by Jillian Weinberger. It was edited by Alison Bruzek and Kaari Pitkin. Mixing by Pat McCusker. Original music by Carole Sabouraud. Fact-checking by Mary Marge Locker. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta and Kristina Samulewski. The director of Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.