Humans have been eating porridge (of which the American oatmeal is just one example) for, as you’ll hear, at least 32,000 years (that places it comfortably in the ‘paleo diet’ era!) Listen in to hear us cover just some of the history of this word and the comforting dish associated with it, as well as taking a tour of the many, many ways it is made throughout the world. Then we’ll focus in on oats - sharing surprising ways in which oat porridge has been served and eaten in the United Kingdom. We'll also explain the different types of oats used, the best ways to cook porridge and the myriad ways you can serve it.

If you love a bowl of steaming, creamy oatmeal, get ready to wrap your hands around this enlightening, inspiring episode.

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One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Get more news from Alison & Andrea by signing up to their newsletter here.

For a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains sign up for Alison's newsletter here!

Get our three podcast cookbooks:

Meals at the Ancestral Hearth

Spelt Sourdough Every Day

The Pastured Pork Cookbook

Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics

Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course

Get 10% off US/Canada Bokashi supplies: click here and use code AKP.

Get 10% off UK Bokashi supplies.

Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop for our favourite cookbooks: US link here and UK link here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Our podcast is supported by a community of ancestral cooks around the world!

Come join our community! You can choose to simply sponsor the podcast, or select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live Zoom calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion grou

Find out more here!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

5* reviews on Apple Podcasts, mean the world to us! Here's how to leave one:

1. Open the Apple Podcast app
2. Find Ancestral Kitchen Podcast in your library
3. Scroll down to 'ratings and reviews'
4. Click on 'write a review', give us 5*s and then tell us why you love listening

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Resources:

Millet Polenta

Different Types of Oats and How to Use Each the Traditional Way

Heritage Oat Collection

What is Sowans?

Ollebrod recipe

How to Roll Your Own Oats (and 3 Good Reasons to do It!)

Gerty Milk article

Episode 70: Fermenting Oats

Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share.

Thank you for listening - we'd love to connect more:

The podcast has a website here!

Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen

The podcast is on You Tube here

The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay

Everybody always wants to know - is a nourishing diet an elitist, privileged ideal, inaccessible to people without a huge budget, and only for the super wealthy? In this episode we are going to share five complete meals. Each meal serves a family of five, and each complete meal can be made for about $5USD (£3.71GBP).

Balancing these inexpensive meals against the more expensive meals that can turn up in an ancestral menu is one way you can bring the overall annual food budget down. You can make all five of these menus, combined, for less than it would cost to take your family of five out one time for the cheapest option at McDonald’s - and that’s not even accounting for the life-giving, health-sustaining benefits of your nourishing meals.

Each of these menus has an option for gluten-free and dairy-free, if they aren’t already, and they can also be made ahead, prepped ahead, or even frozen or canned for absolutely speedy preparation. We’ve shared a few books rich in ideas at the end of the episode, and supporters can find our notes for this rather note-heavy episode in a download available at ancestralkitchenpodcast.com.

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One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Get more news from Alison & Andrea by signing up to their newsletter here.

For a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains sign up for Alison's newsletter here!

Get our three podcast cookbooks:

Meals at the Ancestral Hearth

Spelt Sourdough Every Day

The Pastured Pork Cookbook

Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics

Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course

Get 10% off US/Canada Bokashi supplies: click here and use code AKP.

Get 10% off UK Bokashi supplies.

Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop for our favourite cookbooks: US link here and UK link here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Our podcast is supported by a community of ancestral cooks around the world!

Come join our community! You can choose to simply sponsor the podcast, or select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live Zoom calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion grou

Find out more here!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

What We Cover:

• What we ate
• Review from Heather
• The cost of food today
• Nine ancestral principles for cutting down a food budget
• Happy Meal costs! The expense of eating out and Alison's shock at the cost
• The ideas behind the food: Seasonality, Availability, Fasting or Feasting, Preference and Abundance
• Meals 1 - 5 and cost for each, and each component
• Alison's chicken carcass aside - should we do an entire episode on this!?
• A few inexpensive treats and beverages
• Books chock-full of ideas
• Discord discussion on what we can be growing and raising vs buying and bartering
• INCLUDED Aftershow: The kombucha experiment and extra savings!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

5* reviews on Apple Podcasts, mean the world to us! Here's how to leave one:

1. Open the Apple Podcast app
2. Find Ancestral Kitchen Podcast in your library
3. Scroll down to 'ratings and reviews'
4. Click on 'write a review', give us 5*s and then tell us why you love listening

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Resources:

• Alison's Gluten-Free Millet Sourdough Starter
• Episode 103 – 10 Nourishing Traditions Dishes – Cheaper Than Supermarkets!
• Meals at the Ancestral Hearth Cookbook
• Episode 116 – Leftovers and Scraps in a Frugal Ancestral Kitchen
• Naturally-Fermented Staffordshire Oatcakes Recipes
• Cheesy Pinto Bean Recipe
• Simple Apple Crisp

Extra Recipes

• Pressure-Canned Beans
• One-Pot Pinto Beans and Rice
• Pinto Bean Soup with Greens
• Cream of Corn Soup
• Andrea's Kombucha Recipe

Books

• Make the Bread, Buy the Butter by Jennifer Reese
• Twelve Months of Monastery Soups by Brother Victor-Antoine d'Avila-Latourrette
• A Cabin Full of Food by Marie Beausoleil (Amazon link)
• Pressure Canning for Beginners by Angie Schneider

Further Reading

• The Nella Last diaries give an intimate, day-by-day picture into life with war-time and post-war rationing in England
• 84, Charing Cross Road by Helene Hanff; this isn't a book about food, but it gives surprising insight into the depth of the rationing and the effect it had, and how preciously the food was used that could be had
• Looking up Wartime Recipes produces tons of amazing and interesting results for cookbooks and websites! Grandma's Wartime Kitchen, The Homefront Cookbook, and others have intriguing and creative recipes. Similarly, looking of Great Depression books can give a glimpse into many recipes and ways of eating during extremely lean times in the US.

Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share.

Thank you for listening - we'd love to connect more:

The podcast has a website here!

Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen

The podcast is on You Tube here

The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay

Sausages, bacon, crackling – good pork can be heavenly food. But both of us know that, sometimes, in the ancestral food world, pork is viewed as the poorer cousin to grass-fed beef or pastured chicken. That needn't be the case and this episode will put real pork where it deserves to be - at the centre of our plates. We'll give you some fascinating history bites, we'll talk about how the Industrial Revolution changed mainstream pigs, and we will lay out how buying real, pastured, pork is a positive, health-giving and delicious choice for you and those you love. Expect to be inspired by hearing us talk about the many ways we cook the products of the pig, from the nose to the tail.

This episode is accompanied by a fabulous pork cookbook which we've gifted, as a thank you, to all our current supporters. So if you're a supporter do go check your email. The book, with over 25 pork recipes is also available to buy from the podcast's shop, you purchasing a copy will be directly supporting Andrea and I to continue this work. Find it here:

Pastured Pork Cookbook

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Get more news from Alison & Andrea by signing up to their newsletter here.

For a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains sign up for Alison's newsletter here!

Get our three podcast cookbooks:

Meals at the Ancestral Hearth

Spelt Sourdough Every Day

The Pastured Pork Cookbook

Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics

Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course

Get 10% off US/Canada Bokashi supplies: click here and use code AKP.

Get 10% off UK Bokashi supplies.

Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop for our favourite cookbooks: US link here and UK link here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Our podcast is supported by a community of ancestral cooks around the world!

Come join our community! You can choose to simply sponsor the podcast, or select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live Zoom calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion grou

Find out more here!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

5* reviews on Apple Podcasts, mean the world to us! Here's how to leave one:

1. Open the Apple Podcast app
2. Find Ancestral Kitchen Podcast in your library
3. Scroll down to 'ratings and reviews'
4. Click on 'write a review', give us 5*s and then tell us why you love listening

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Resources:

1. www.robertmichaelkay.com
2. The new oat recipe download
3. How to Render Lard in a Slow Cooker
4. Pane con Ciccioli (lard crackling bread)
5. 7 Ways to Use Lard (& a Lard Crackling Spread Recipe)
6. How to Make Lardo (Italian Cured Pig Fat) at Home
7. Slovakian Lard Crackling Biscuits from Naomi at almostbananas.net
8. Eating to Extinction
9. Episode 29 - True Historical Italian Food
10. Episode 33 - The Fats We Love, The Fats We Leave
11. Episode 38 - Fat Rendering, Traditional Food Gems & Eggs, Eggs, Eggs!
12. Episode 49 - Traditional Slovakian Food
13. Episode 23 - Traditional Slovakian Pig Butchery
14. The roast pork crackling recipe Alison loves

Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share.

Thank you for listening - we'd love to connect more:

The podcast has a website here!

Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen

The podcast is on You Tube here

The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay

Why eat local? What if it isn’t easy? What if the things I want aren't available? What's the point? Alison and I have both considered these questions for ourselves and factored them into decisions that we’ve made about how we live our everyday lives. We didn’t make the changes overnight, and we don’t even suggest people do so. After the many books we have read, the real-life experiences we have had, and guests we have interviewed on the subject of factory farming vs humane peasant farming, we have come to some conclusions about eating local that might surprise you. They might not be the conclusions or the “arguments” you were expecting.

This episode features an aftershow which could possibly be described as a little bit salty, where some spicier opinions came to the fore. It was impossible to include everything we had to say and keep the main episode at a reasonable length of time. If you want to hear this aftershow as well as over 140 other episodes on our more informal, private podcast Kitchen Table Chats, hop over to ancestralkitchenpodcast.com/join and join at companionship or above level. Thank you for your continued support and to all the supporters, reviewers and listeners who made this episode possible.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Get more news from Alison & Andrea by signing up to their newsletter here.

For a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains sign up for Alison's newsletter here!

Get our three podcast cookbooks:

Meals at the Ancestral Hearth

Spelt Sourdough Every Day

The Pastured Pork Cookbook

Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics

Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course

Get 10% off US/Canada Bokashi supplies: click here and use code AKP.

Get 10% off UK Bokashi supplies.

Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop for our favourite cookbooks: US link here and UK link here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Our podcast is supported by a community of ancestral cooks around the world!

Come join our community! You can choose to simply sponsor the podcast, or select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live Zoom calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion grou

Find out more here!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

What We Covered:

• Simple breakfast, and pheasant in Britain
• A new, free rye resource from Alison
• What countries are our listeners coming from?
• How do they listen?
• See the full list on our podcast website
• Shout out to young listeners
• Why do we eat local?
• Eating like a human - behaving like a human
• What is farm-friendly food
• Is everything we eat local?
• Healthcare spending and food spending
• Money matters
• Our plan to save the world (it might shock you)
• What we can do
• What is our responsibility?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

5* reviews on Apple Podcasts, mean the world to us! Here's how to leave one:

1. Open the Apple Podcast app
2. Find Ancestral Kitchen Podcast in your library
3. Scroll down to 'ratings and reviews'
4. Click on 'write a review', give us 5*s and then tell us why you love listening

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Resources:

• To see the countries where we have AKP listeners, visit www.ancestralkitchenpodcast.com/downloads
• To get Alison’s Beginner’s Guide to Rye Sourdough, pop your details in the sign-up box that’s nestling inside either of these informative blog posts on her site:

https://ancestralkitchen.com/2021/01/04/everyday-wholegrain-sourdough-rye-loaf/

Or

https://ancestralkitchen.com/2025/04/14/how-to-make-sourdough-rye-bread-from-scratch/

Each of the episodes mentioned here includes an entirely packed show notes of further reading and links on that specific topic!

• Episode 46: Sir Patrick Holden
• Episode 116: Leftovers and Scraps in a Frugal Ancestral Kitchen
• Episode 103: 10 Nourishing Traditions Dishes Cheaper Than Supermarkets!
• Episode 102: The Guide to Getting Out of Supermarkets
• Episode 74: 14 Tips for Changing Your Food Habits
• Episode 69: Fake Food v Small Farms
• Episode 66: 50 Ways to Save Money on an Ancestral Diet Part I
• Episode 67: 50 Ways to Save Money Part II
• Episode 50: 20 Small Steps to an Ancestral Kitchen
• Episode 4: The 5 Most Expensive (and Yet the Cheapest) Foods

Suggested Reading

• Leah's Rec: Against the Machine by Paul Kingsnorth (we haven't read this yet, but are reading as a podcast together starting in Jan 2026) 
• A Bold Return to Giving a Damn: one farm, six generations, and the future of food by Will Harris
• The Unsettling of America by Wendell Berry
• Jayber Crow by Wendell Berry
• The Art of the Commonplace: The Agrarian Essays of Wendell Berry by Wendell Berry
• Everything I Want to Do Is Illegal: War Stories from the Local Food Front by Joel Salatin
• The Revolution Will Not Be Microwaved: Inside America’s Underground Food Movements by Sandor Ellix Katz
• The Joel Salatin book we mentioned a number of times: Holy Cows and Hog Heaven: The Food Buyer’s Guide to Farm Friendly Food by Joel Salatin

His goal [with this book] is to:

• Empower food buyers to pursue positive alternatives to the industrialized food system

• Bring clean food farmers and their patrons into a teamwork relationship

• Marry the best of western technology with the soul of eastern ethics

• Educate food buyers about productions

• Create a food system that enhances nature’s ecology for future generations"

Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share.

Thank you for listening - we'd love to connect more:

The podcast has a website here!

Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen

The podcast is on You Tube here

The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay

Back in episode 117, we gave you 26 nuggets of ancestral wisdom. We’ve got more. Another 24 to be precise. And just because these are in this second episode doesn’t mean they are any less important!

Over the next hour, on opposite sides of the Atlantic, with cups of tea in our hands we'll be channelling our great-grandma wisdom and bringing you some ancestral truths relating to food, creativity, family, health, work and life.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.

For US listeners, we recommend Grand Teton Ancient Grains. They sell regenerative, organic flours and berries that can satisfy all your baking needs. Stock up and get free shipping at AncientGrains.com

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Get more news from Alison & Andrea by signing up to their newsletter here.

For a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains sign up for Alison's newsletter here!

Get our three podcast cookbooks:

Meals at the Ancestral Hearth

Spelt Sourdough Every Day

The Pastured Pork Cookbook

Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics

Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course

Get 10% off US/Canada Bokashi supplies: click here and use code AKP.

Get 10% off UK Bokashi supplies.

Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop for our favourite cookbooks: US link here and UK link here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Our podcast is supported by a community of ancestral cooks around the world!

Come join our community! You can choose to simply sponsor the podcast, or select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live Zoom calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion grou

Find out more here!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

5* reviews on Apple Podcasts, mean the world to us! Here's how to leave one:

1. Open the Apple Podcast app
2. Find Ancestral Kitchen Podcast in your library
3. Scroll down to 'ratings and reviews'
4. Click on 'write a review', give us 5*s and then tell us why you love listening

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Resources:

Alison’s original blog post, 50 Things an Ancestral Lifestyle Has Taught Me

Episode 86: Your Stories

Share your stories here

Against the Machine by Paul Kingsnorth

Episode 87: Taking Your Health in Your Own Hands

Episode 56: Preparing Nutrient-Dense Meals From Scratch Every Day

Episode 12: Why I Gave Away My iPhone

Link to supporter extra:

Kitchen Table Chats Podcast Episode 31: Tasting Training with Lizzy Filoramo

Accompanying worksheet

Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share.

Thank you for listening - we'd love to connect more:

The podcast has a website here!

Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen

The podcast is on You Tube here

The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay

Khorasan rye, spelt, emmer, millet, quinoa - what do all of these delicious foods have in common? They are considered ancient grains, grasses harking back to a time before industrial development and heavy hybridisation.

You are what you eat eats, and that goes for grains as well as anything else. The nutrients your grains are pulling up out of the soil are the ones you will find in your finished product. Grains are an incredible source of minerals and micronutrients when grown in a regenerative manner.

This is why today I am so excited to introduce you to Grand Teton Ancient Grains! You can find this incredible family business online at www.ancientgrains.com and in this episode I got to sit down with Jade Koyl, the owner of this incredible family farm, and learn more about the way they feed the soil, their crop rotations, grain storage, and how their family uses grains in their everyday diet; as well as why they started growing them in the first place.

Supporters can stick around for a couple minutes in the Aftershow on the private podcast, Kitchen Table Chats, where Jade shared some of the titles he's reading right now and a little more about his family life.

Everybody can check the show notes for both the link to his company's store as well as a link with an amazing wealth of recipes for utilizing ancient grains at https://www.ancientgrains.com/grain-recipes. Now, let's get to the show!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.

For US listeners, we recommend Grand Teton Ancient Grains. They sell regenerative, organic flours and berries that can satisfy all your baking needs. Stock up and get free shipping at AncientGrains.com

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Get more news from Alison & Andrea by signing up to their newsletter here.

For a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains sign up for Alison's newsletter here!

Get our three podcast cookbooks:

Meals at the Ancestral Hearth

Spelt Sourdough Every Day

The Pastured Pork Cookbook

Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics

Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course

Get 10% off US/Canada Bokashi supplies: click here and use code AKP.

Get 10% off UK Bokashi supplies.

Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop for our favourite cookbooks: US link here and UK link here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Our podcast is supported by a community of ancestral cooks around the world!

Come join our community! You can choose to simply sponsor the podcast, or select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live Zoom calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion grou

Find out more here!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

What we talked about:

• What did you last eat?
• Farm origin
• Why ancient grains
• Regenerative growing vs conventional
• Cover crops and rotating crops
• How they replenish their soil
• How to increase diversity of grains in the diet
• Working with sourdough
• How different grains behave
• Fresh-milled vs pre-milled
• Storing grains
• How they mill their flours
• What does never hybridised mean

The personal views and opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect our own personal views or opinions. We recognize that our guests are whole persons and this may include views we or our audience actively disagree with; our guests are invited to the show because we feel they have something valuable to share with us all, and we do not ask them to censor their personal views on air. Our sharing of their work is not necessarily an endorsement of their personal views.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

5* reviews on Apple Podcasts, mean the world to us! Here's how to leave one:

1. Open the Apple Podcast app
2. Find Ancestral Kitchen Podcast in your library
3. Scroll down to 'ratings and reviews'
4. Click on 'write a review', give us 5*s and then tell us why you love listening

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Resources:

• www.ancientgrains.com
• https://www.ancientgrains.com/grain-recipes
• Spelt Sourdough Everyday Cookbook by Alison Kay
• Episode 104 - Baking with Ancient Grains
• Episode 72 - All About Spelt Sourdough
• Episode 81 - Millet: How to use this sustainable, gluten and lectin-free grain
• Episode 41 - Wholegrain Sourdough Rye: Mastering the Basics
• The Ancestral Kitchen Podcast Guide to Milling Your Own Flour (and the Mockmill!)

Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share.

Thank you for listening - we'd love to connect more:

The podcast has a website here!

Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen

The podcast is on You Tube here

The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay

In so many of our episodes over the last four years, we have explored how no food we eat is intrinsically ‘bad’. Instead, it’s what we as humans living in a rapidly globalising and industrialising world, have done to that food that causes problems. The topic of today’s episode, cacao, epitomises this. Originally, in its home, central america, cacao beans were revered and used unsweetened as a drink. Our world has taken and transformed them into an unrecognisable sugary commodity that fills the shelves of shops globally. A commodity that can, as Alison personally knows, through at 20, being addicted to the stuff and obese, ruin health.

But as ancestral cooks, we need not be scared. And our guest today knows that better than anyone we’ve ever come across. Marcos Patchett is a self-confessed cacao geek and has written two books on this bean’s wonders, the first of which, The Secret Life of Chocolate is 700 pages of incredible research, of which Alison has devoured every page!

Cacao is an incredibly nutrient-dense food and one that can give us both pleasure and health. Let’s talk about why, and, how, you should be eating chocolate.

Supporters of the podcast, check your private feed for a fascinating discussion on addiction that we just couldn’t squeeze into the main episode.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.

For US listeners, we recommend Grand Teton Ancient Grains. They sell regenerative, organic flours and berries that can satisfy all your baking needs. Stock up and get free shipping at AncientGrains.com

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Get more news from Alison & Andrea by signing up to their newsletter here.

For a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains sign up for Alison's newsletter here!

Get our three podcast cookbooks:

Meals at the Ancestral Hearth

Spelt Sourdough Every Day

The Pastured Pork Cookbook

Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics

Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course

Get 10% off US/Canada Bokashi supplies: click here and use code AKP.

Get 10% off UK Bokashi supplies.

Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop for our favourite cookbooks: US link here and UK link here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Our podcast is supported by a community of ancestral cooks around the world!

Come join our community! You can choose to simply sponsor the podcast, or select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live Zoom calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion grou

Find out more here!

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What we cover:

• Why we should be eating chocolate
• Health benefits of cacao
• Anti-oxidants and how they work
• Cacao as suncream!
• Discussion on the stimulant effect of cacao, comparing it to the stimulants in coffee and tea and covering the different types of beans
• Wider discussion on habituation and how 'exciting' foods can be part of our life, healthily
• Reductionism in food culture and how cacao, just like every food, is more than the sum of its parts
• How we should be eating chocolate
• How cacao was originally consumed and what happened when it came to Europe
• Alison's experience making atoles
• Ways we can maximise cacao's health benefits in our own lives

The personal views and opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect our own personal views or opinions. We recognize that our guests are whole persons and this may include views we or our audience actively disagree with; our guests are invited to the show because we feel they have something valuable to share with us all, and we do not ask them to censor their personal views on air. Our sharing of their work is not necessarily an endorsement of their personal views.

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5* reviews on Apple Podcasts, mean the world to us! Here's how to leave one:

1. Open the Apple Podcast app
2. Find Ancestral Kitchen Podcast in your library
3. Scroll down to 'ratings and reviews'
4. Click on 'write a review', give us 5*s and then tell us why you love listening

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Resources:

Marcos has written two books on cacao:

The Secret Life of Chocolate (Alison has the hardback but this is also now available more economically as an ebook), and Pharmakakawa.

If you want to buy a copy of them, he is offering podcast listeners a 20% discount. Use the code CHOC20 on the publishers website: https://www.aeonbooks.co.uk

Marcos’ Instagram

Marcos’ herbalist website

Marcos is on You Tube as The Nocturnal Herbalist

Alison's course Bean-to-Bar Chocolate with No Special Equipment mentioned in the recording will guide you through making chocolate at home from the raw bean with equipment you already have in your kitchen

Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share.

Thank you for listening - we'd love to connect more:

The podcast has a website here!

Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen

The podcast is on You Tube here

The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay

Ancestral food is not just all livers and bone broth! You not only can find amazing treats and desserts in the ancestral food world, but this is where delicious, comforting goodness was invented. The modern and industrial versions of sweet treats are like looking through a glass Pyrex pan darkly, and when you are introduced to the ancestral food world and the amazing ingredients we have available to us here you can in fact meet the richness and goodness of delicious treats face to face.

In this episode we share some of our favorite treats including a range of baked, custardy, dairy-free, gluten-free, or egg-free treats to keep you going all winter and into the spring. And the question I know which is burning in all of our hearts, is chocolate part of an ancestral lifestyle, can it be part of an ancestral life? Find out in this episode.

We also included a few of our favorite hot beverages - on a cold rainy day there is nothing better than wrapping your fingers around a hot steaming mug of something delicious and nestling in with a good book for a long afternoon … and then of course you gotta get up and put on your overalls and your hat and go back out into the rain and do the evening chores but that's ok, you've got something delicious to come back inside to!

For supporters of the podcast there is an additional download with a couple extra recipes for you (thank you for keeping us on the air!), and for everybody listening be sure to check the show notes, we linked the heck outta this one. Let us know if there are other sweet treats we should have mentioned or that you love!

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One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.

For US listeners, we recommend Grand Teton Ancient Grains. They sell regenerative, organic flours and berries that can satisfy all your baking needs. Stock up and get free shipping at AncientGrains.com

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Get more news from Alison & Andrea by signing up to their newsletter here.

For a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains sign up for Alison's newsletter here!

Get our three podcast cookbooks:

Meals at the Ancestral Hearth

Spelt Sourdough Every Day

The Pastured Pork Cookbook

Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics

Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course

Get 10% off US/Canada Bokashi supplies: click here and use code AKP.

Get 10% off UK Bokashi supplies.

Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop for our favourite cookbooks: US link here and UK link here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Our podcast is supported by a community of ancestral cooks around the world!

Come join our community! You can choose to simply sponsor the podcast, or select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live Zoom calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion grou

Find out more here!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

5* reviews on Apple Podcasts, mean the world to us! Here's how to leave one:

1. Open the Apple Podcast app
2. Find Ancestral Kitchen Podcast in your library
3. Scroll down to 'ratings and reviews'
4. Click on 'write a review', give us 5*s and then tell us why you love listening

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

What we talked about and resource links:

• Tinaktak (Primal, Whole 30, Paleo, Gluten-Free, Grain-Free, Dairy-Free, Egg-Free, Soy-Free)
• Bonus download for supporters www.ancestralkitchenpodcast.com/downloads
• The principle of ingredients
• Valerie MacBean, Coconut Cookery
• Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon and Mary Enig
• Ancestral Cookies
• Wholegrain Einkorn Chocolate Chip Cookies
• Jumbo Chewy Sourdough Oatmeal Cookies from our cookbook
• Meals at the Ancestral Hearth
• Comfort Foods episode
• Annual Christmas Hamper for supporters
• Rushbearer's Gingerbread
• The Prelude, by Wordsworth
• Tapioca Pudding
• Creme Brulee/Custard
• Spelt Sourdough Carrot Cake
• Bean to Bar Chocolate (subscriber's to Alison's newsletter get 15% off! www.ancestralkitchen.com to subscribe)
• The Secret Life of Chocolate episode
• GAPS Apple Crisp (gf, df) I said in the episode there was no recipe but I typed one up!
• Rachael's Bone Broth Hot Chocolate and linked in Plan to Eat
• Best Cheesecake Ever
• Ricotta with Honey or Berries
• Creamy Maple Eggnog (Andrea's long-lost prodigal recipe)
• Creamy Raw Eggnog
• Sweet Cheese Topping from Nourishing Traditions, page 541
• Raspberry Panna Cotta - can be made with coconut milk
• Raj's Chai
• Everyday Luxuries episode
• Honorable Mentions that didn't make the main feed:
• MUFFINS - but make it ancestral. Yoghurt, kefir, sourdough, fruit, scrambled eggs, meat, dried fruit, crumble topping, granola topping, butter, spelt, einkorn, etc. Move slowly when making changes to family favorites, and manage expectations.
• Sandy Debris Chocolate Chunk (what a terrible name) on my old blog With some kinda hilarious and nostalgic (for me) photos
• Kathie’s Lavender Hot Toddy
• My old favorite Paleo/GF Brownies
• Coconut Truffles - kinda like an almond candy bar (is that a thing in the UK?). Lots of ways to make variations.
• Anita’s Desserts - all SO good

Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share.

Thank you for listening - we'd love to connect more:

The podcast has a website here!

Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen

The podcast is on You Tube here

The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay

As you know, if you’ve been cooking ancestrally for any length of time, the ancestral mindset does not stay in the kitchen! Some of us come to this as part of a health journey, already thinking about our life as a whole…others of us start with food and find the wisdom of our ancestors seeping into the rest of our lives. There are things we just can’t not see any more, things we feel are wrong; things we know are right.

We have, together, been living this lifestyle for over 25 years. And we were both on health journeys long before then. Our lives, not just our kitchens, have transformed.

In this episode you’ll hear 26 nuggets of wisdom. They are things we’ve learned, often the hard way, and things we have to remind ourselves of again and again as we step forward. Join us, and our community of listeners, as we share some truth.

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One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.

For US listeners, we recommend Grand Teton Ancient Grains. They sell regenerative, organic flours and berries that can satisfy all your baking needs. Stock up and get free shipping at AncientGrains.com

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The Fermentation Summit 2025 is a free, online gathering of top fermentation experts sharing their wisdom, recipes, and techniques—from sauerkraut and kimchi to miso, kefir, kombucha, and beyond. Whether you’re a curious beginner or a seasoned fermenter, this 3-day virtual summit offers practical, science-backed guidance and hands-on inspiration to help you master the microbial magic at home.

Name: Fermentation Summit 2025

Dates: October 21-23, 2025

Location: Online (Free Virtual Event)

Host: Holly Howe of MakeSauerkraut

https://ancestralkitchenpodcast.com/hollysummit

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Get more news from Alison & Andrea by signing up to their newsletter here.

For a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains sign up for Alison's newsletter here!

Get our three podcast cookbooks:

Meals at the Ancestral Hearth

Spelt Sourdough Every Day

The Pastured Pork Cookbook

Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics

Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course

Get 10% off US/Canada Bokashi supplies: click here and use code AKP.

Get 10% off UK Bokashi supplies.

Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop for our favourite cookbooks: US link here and UK link here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Our podcast is supported by a community of ancestral cooks around the world!

Come join our community! You can choose to simply sponsor the podcast, or select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live Zoom calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion grou

Find out more here!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

5* reviews on Apple Podcasts, mean the world to us! Here's how to leave one:

1. Open the Apple Podcast app
2. Find Ancestral Kitchen Podcast in your library
3. Scroll down to 'ratings and reviews'
4. Click on 'write a review', give us 5*s and then tell us why you love listening

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Resources:

50 Things an Ancestral Lifestyle has Taught Me

The Myth of Olive Oil Use in Italy

Episode 66 - 50 Ways to Save Money on an Ancestral Diet – Part 1

Episode 67 - 50 Ways to Save Money on an Ancestral Diet – Part 2

50 Ways to Save Money on an Ancestral Diet PDF Download

Episode 50 – 20 Small Steps to an Ancestral Kitchen

Download the 20 Small Steps ebooklet for free by joining our newsletter!

Episode 29 - True Historical Italian Food with Karima Moyer Nocchi, Author of Chewing the Fat

Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share.

Thank you for listening - we'd love to connect more:

The podcast has a website here!

Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen

The podcast is on You Tube here

The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay

Leftovers again? Oh good, I can’t wait! I love it when half the work is already done. In this episode we talked about leftovers as well as scraps and items that are often discarded in home kitchens. Let’s maximize those precious food dollars and make the meal stretch as far as possible! We went a little bit crazy sharing about all the ways we love using the trash items in our kitchen - including some of the actual trash. We asked our supporters in Discord for their ideas on using commonly wasted food items and oh boy they delivered! I could barely cram it all into this episode. Supporters of the podcast, check the downloads section of the podcast website. I dumped all my notes into a PDF and shared it there so you can hang it up inside your kitchen cupboard as reminders of how to frugally, efficiently and deliciously wring every penny out of that purchase! This episode got me hoping for some dry bread, a gallon of scrap whey, and a jar of bland egg whites! What could be more delicious!?

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One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.

For US listeners, we recommend Grand Teton Ancient Grains. They sell regenerative, organic flours and berries that can satisfy all your baking needs. Stock up and get free shipping at AncientGrains.com

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Fermentation Summit 2025 is a free, online gathering of top fermentation experts sharing their wisdom, recipes, and techniques—from sauerkraut and kimchi to miso, kefir, kombucha, and beyond. Whether you're a curious beginner or a seasoned fermenter, this 3-day virtual summit offers practical, science-backed guidance and hands-on inspiration to help you master the microbial magic at home.

Name: Fermentation Summit 2025

Dates: October 21-23, 2025

Location: Online (Free Virtual Event)

Host: Holly Howe of MakeSauerkraut

http://ancestralkitchenpodcast.com/hollysummit

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Get more news from Alison & Andrea by signing up to their newsletter here.

For a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains sign up for Alison's newsletter here!

Get our three podcast cookbooks:

Meals at the Ancestral Hearth

Spelt Sourdough Every Day

The Pastured Pork Cookbook

Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics

Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course

Get 10% off US/Canada Bokashi supplies: click here and use code AKP.

Get 10% off UK Bokashi supplies.

Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop for our favourite cookbooks: US link here and UK link here.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Our podcast is supported by a community of ancestral cooks around the world!

Come join our community! You can choose to simply sponsor the podcast, or select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live Zoom calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion grou

Find out more here!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

What we cover:

• The Fermentation Summit 2025
• Using the Bokashi for "useless" scraps and making compost tea
• How to use a wide range of kitchen scraps that we sometimes end up with an abundance of! Scraps include but are not limited to ...
• Leftover and stale bread
• Egg whites
• Tibicos and Milk Kefir grains
• Leftover porridge
• Eggshells
• Extra milled flour
• Fruit scraps from fermenting
• Berry seeds
• Whey - LOADS and loads of ideas for WHEY! How to ever have enough whey to use all these ideas!?
• And SO much more! There will be nothing left for the chickens by the time you finish this episode!

Supporters - find the podcast notes as a download at www.ancestralkitchenpodcast.com/downloads

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

5* reviews on Apple Podcasts, mean the world to us! Here's how to leave one:

1. Open the Apple Podcast app
2. Find Ancestral Kitchen Podcast in your library
3. Scroll down to 'ratings and reviews'
4. Click on 'write a review', give us 5*s and then tell us why you love listening

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Resources:

Alison's kvass

Bread Lasagna

The Nourishing Traditions Read-Along

Browse Our Bookshop

Nourishing Traditions for Children

A Cabin Full of Food

An Everlasting Meal

Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share.

Thank you for listening - we'd love to connect more:

The podcast has a website here!

Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen

The podcast is on You Tube here

The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay